The 404 Media Podcast: The End of Windows 10 Support Is an Environmental Disaster (With Nathan Proctor)

Date: October 13, 2025
Guests: Jason Kepler (Host), Nathan Proctor (Head of Right to Repair, US PIRG)

Episode Overview

This episode explores the global, environmental, and societal impact of Microsoft ending free support for Windows 10, featuring deep insights from Nathan Proctor, a leading figure in the right to repair movement. The conversation covers the evolution and recent victories of the right to repair movement, the planned obsolescence fueling tech waste, and why the Windows 10 decision poses unprecedented challenges—both for electronic waste and cybersecurity. The episode draws connections between software policy, big tech lobbying, environmental consequences, and collective action options.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Is Right to Repair?

• Nathan Proctor’s Role: Describes his work as a “professional citizen,” focusing for the past eight years on right to repair across the US via legislation, research, advocacy, and marketplace engagement.

  • Notable Quote: “I like to say that I'm a professional citizen and so it's my job every day to try to use the system of American democracy to improve our lives and to address problems that affect everybody.” (01:15)

• Movement Origins & Evolution:

  • Right to repair is the broad principle that people should be able to fix—directly or via independent technicians—the electronics and devices they own.
  • Major challenges include manufacturer monopolies on repair parts, software locks, proprietary tools, and legal barriers like DRM and copyright law.
  • A state-by-state legislative approach has yielded around a dozen laws (“depending on how you count,” says Proctor), covering everything from wheelchairs to consumer electronics to agriculture. (03:33)

2. The Story of Planned Obsolescence & Tech Absurdities

• Tinkering to Waste: Jason Kepler notes the American tradition of repair and how the past 15 years have seen a shift to disposable technology due to software locks, thinner/harder-to-repair devices, and disappearing spare parts.

  • Notable Quote: “A lot of right to repair is rooted in this idea of, like, American tinkering... For a lot of people, the answer is never. It's like something breaks and you go and buy a new one, and that's sort of like by design from the manufacturers.” (06:45)

• Absurd E-waste Examples:

  • Amazon Dash buttons and disposable vapes with electronics and batteries are highlighted as egregious examples—designed for short-term use and impossible recycling.
  • Memorable Moment: Jason recalls seeing a “gigantic crate of dash buttons being recycled,” underscoring how little of it is truly reusable and the hands-on labor required to separate hazardous batteries. (11:57)
  • Nathan adds that disposable vapes now connect to Bluetooth and feature screens: “Make vapes with Tetris on them?... How is this sensible to anybody?” (13:53)

• Critical Minerals & Environmental Impact: The push for more materials (like deep-sea mining for minerals) to fuel “disposable tech” is cast as geopolitically and ecologically reckless.

3. Right to Repair across Industries: Unnecessary Barriers and Human Costs

• Sector Carve-Outs & Excuses:
  • Medical devices, agricultural equipment, and even military hardware are often exempted from right to repair bills due to lobbying, under the guise of “safety.”
  • Nathan debunks this, citing data (e.g., FDA looking at millions of error reports from medical devices not showing safety issues with independent repair) and gives visceral examples of lives lost or endangered when needed repairs are blocked.
  • Notable Quote: “When you can't fix stuff, when the manufacturer decides how stuff gets fixed, they just design the repair programs to benefit their shareholders in ways that harm the rest of us.” (19:39)
  • Example: During COVID-19, hospitals’ ventilators remained broken for weeks due to DRM/software locks, even with in-house technicians available—directly affecting patient care. (24:03)

4. The Windows 10 Support Crisis: Environmental and Security Disaster

• Scope of the Issue: Microsoft is ending free security updates for Windows 10 on October 14, affecting 400 million devices worldwide—many of which cannot upgrade to Windows 11 due to hardware restrictions (TPM 2.0 and newer CPUs required).

  • Nathan: “Estimates are up to 400 million computers that are currently running Windows 10 cannot upgrade to Windows 11... If everyone does replace those computers, like, that's 400 million computers that are going to enter the waste stream, that's a disaster.” (27:15)

• Environmental Stakes:

  • The carbon and waste footprint of forced upgrades is massive. Nathan notes that for smartphones, simply keeping them a year longer is equivalent to taking 636,000 cars off the road, and similar logic applies to larger tech.
    • “About 85% of the carbon footprint for a smartphone is the production and shipping of it... Using them for longer is hugely beneficial.” (32:58)

• Security Dimension:

  • Devices without updates become targets for malware, ransomware, and botnets, creating cascading risks for users and broader networks—especially the vulnerable, like rural elderly or institutions with budget constraints.
  • Institutions (businesses, schools, governments) often face legal or internal policy mandates to replace unsupported systems, compounding the waste.

• Microsoft’s Mixed Solutions & Comparisons:

  • Microsoft offers a paid update plan (schools can buy support for a few years for low cost), but this simply means cost—or access to security—becomes a barrier.
    • “So people will be paying for the security updates. If you couldn’t pay, it means you’re insecure—but when one person is insecure in your network, that’s... not just your problem.” (46:01)
  • Reference to Google’s Chromebook policy shift: Public pressure led Google to extend Chrome OS support from 6 to 10 years after similar outcry; Nathan sees hope that similar activism could work on Windows. (41:22–45:12)

5. Corporate Sustainability Claims vs. Reality

• Microsoft’s PR Contradictions:

  • While Microsoft has pledged to be net carbon negative and zero waste by 2030, their move could create 1.6 billion pounds of additional e-waste.
    • “Meanwhile we calculated that the end of Windows 10 would create £1.6 billion of electronic waste... it's like you might as well set up 15 new coal plants. It's huge.” (49:26–51:52)

• AI and Customer Data:

  • Microsoft tying security updates to switching to OneDrive (cloud backup) and, allegedly, data collection for AI training, is flagged as ethically concerning.
    • “I can get security updates if I give all my data to train your AI?... That does seem like a crazy exchange.” (49:26)

6. Action & Engagement

• What Listeners Can Do:
  • Nathan’s organization (US PIRG) has a petition and open letter that individuals, organizations, and businesses can sign at pirg.org, and are also refurbishing older computers with Linux to keep them in use and out of landfills. (53:50)
  • “You could help volunteer and refurbish some old computers and give them to people who could use them, keep them out of the dump...” (53:50–56:04)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the absurdity of tech waste:
  “What are they going to do with that? Like make vapes with Tetris on them? ... How is this sensible to anybody?”
  — Nathan Proctor (13:53)

• On why planned obsolescence is systemic:
  “Most of the industry is producing things that are not all that necessary. And mostly innovation in the marketplace is like trying to figure out how to get people to buy stuff that they don't actually need. And planned obsolescence is a feature of that kind of absurdity...”
  — Nathan Proctor (08:46)

• On the direct link to environmental disaster:
  “Windows 10 is used by 42.8% of all Windows computer users worldwide... that's 400 million computers that are going to lose support. Not only this waste crisis, but then all the devices and the mining and resources that are needed to replace them.”
  — Jason Kepler (31:23, 35:47)

• On manufacturers’ motivations:
  “When you can't fix stuff... they just design the repair programs to benefit their shareholders in ways that harm the rest of us.”
  — Nathan Proctor (19:39)

• On the broader stakes for democracy and sustainability:
  “We have to use our democracy and the voice of the public to accomplish that, otherwise... something else will come along that makes more money for the company and it'll be too hard to say no to.”
  — Nathan Proctor (51:58)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:15] Introduction to Nathan Proctor & right to repair advocacy
• [03:33] State of right to repair laws, movement strategy and progress
• [06:45] The shift from repair culture to disposable electronics
• [11:57] E-waste examples: Amazon Dash Buttons, disposable vapes
• [16:59] Carve-outs and the wide scope of devices affected—healthcare, agriculture, more
• [27:15] End of Windows 10 support—scope, consequences, and environmental stakes
• [32:58] Environmental cost of upgrading: carbon and waste math
• [39:49] Institutional buyers, Chromebooks, and right to repair victories
• [46:01] Security model problems—paid updates, network risk
• [49:26] AI, privacy, and Microsoft’s sustainability contradiction
• [53:50] How to help: activism, petitions, computer refurbishing
• [57:01] Military right to repair—striking and costly examples
• [62:03] Policy outlook, momentum at the federal level
• [63:30] Final reflections on progress and call for continued action

Tone & Language

Candid, irreverent, and deeply informed—the episode is full of plain language, lively analogies (e.g., “make vapes with Tetris on them?”), and everyday examples to reveal the human and ecological costs of planned obsolescence. Both speakers emphasize empowerment ("it just makes sense...when something is broken, you fix it," (13:53)) and collective action, maintaining a practical optimism despite the magnitude of the problems.

Closing Thoughts

This episode positions the Windows 10 end-of-support issue as a microcosm of broader systemic tech and environmental problems—but also as a rallying point for activism. By connecting policy, industry practices, environmental realities, and user agency, the hosts and guest show how right to repair is both common sense and urgent for a sustainable future.

Take Action:
Sign the petition, donate or recycle old computers (with Linux!), and raise awareness—details at pirg.org/repair.