← The 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson
The 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson
Lindsey Graham's American Legacy of Loyalty, Laughter and Leadership
00:43:56
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- [00:00]
Ben Ferguson
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:02]
Ted Cruz
Guaranteed Human.
- [00:04]
Jack Armstrong
Why should you listen to Armstrong and Getty on Demand? We're not boring. A lot of news is boring and tedious and depressing. It makes you angry. You don't want to live your life like that. Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong.
- [00:16]
Ben Ferguson
He's Joe Getty.
- [00:17]
Jack Armstrong
We're Armstrong and Getty. We try to bring you the truth and help you figure out this crazy modern world.
- [00:21]
Ben Ferguson
How about something about a comedic tone?
- [00:26]
Jack Armstrong
We have a winner. Yes.
- [00:28]
Ted Cruz
Listen to Armstrong and Getty on Demand
- [00:30]
Jack Armstrong
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Joel Osteen Daily Podcast.
- [00:37]
Joel Osteen
God's plans for you are for good.
- [00:39]
Jack Armstrong
Be inspired.
- [00:40]
Joel Osteen
Get ready. God is about to exceed your expectations.
- [00:44]
Jack Armstrong
Joel Osteen Daily Podcast.
- [00:46]
Joel Osteen
You are coming out of that dry place into more than enough daily encouragement
- [00:50]
Ted Cruz
right when you need it.
- [00:52]
Joel Osteen
There are opportunities in your future bigger than you can imagine.
- [00:56]
Jack Armstrong
Listen to the Joel Osteen Daily podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite podcast.
- [01:05]
Ben Ferguson
Welcome. It is Verdict with Ted Cruz Week in Review. And it's so nice to have you with us. As you know, normally we do the top stories of the week and let you get up to date on what you may have missed this past week. However, we're going to do a special show today and is remembering our good friend Lindsey Graham. If you missed Senator Cruz talking about Lindsay after his sudden death, we took a moment to talk about everything he'd accomplished and some really cool behind the scenes stories. So. So with that being said, it is the weekend review and it starts right now.
- [01:37]
Ted Cruz
Look, this was a hard day. This was a shocking day. I woke up, as so many people did across America, with the news that Lindsey had passed away of what has been reported to be a massive heart attack at his home Saturday night. I was stunned. I had five or six texts in my phone as I woke up and I just stared at them in disbelief. It did not seem real. Lindsey was a good friend of mine. Lindsey was. He was one of a kind. He was someone he and I did not always see eye to eye. In fact, we battled on a lot of issues, but we also agreed on a whole bunch of issues. And we were close allies fighting for years to confirm conservative judges and conservative justices. We were close allies fighting to defend the Second Amendment. We were close allies fighting to support the men and women of the military. We were close allies fighting to defend our national security, to stand with our allies, to stand with Israel. And we were close Allies standing up to America's enemies, and especially Iran. And Lindsey was someone, he was a force of nature. But his personality, I gotta say, if you spent time with Lindsay, I think it was impossible to dislike Lindsay. He was charming, he was funny as hell, like just witty. For years, I used to say to Lindsay and John Kennedy, I'd ask each of them, I don't know which one of you is funnier? And they'd kind of both sort of bow up their chest and get mad at him. And I actually, I do have a theory. I think John Kennedy is the better stand up comedian. Like, if John Kennedy and John prepares a fair amount of his material, but when he's delivering it, he could be a professional comedian. Yes, but Lindsay was wittier. Just sitting there. He would fire zingers that you're like. It was. And many of them were self deprecating. He did not take himself too seriously. He would make fun of himself like crazy.
- [03:51]
Ben Ferguson
He did.
- [03:53]
Ted Cruz
And it was, you know, I've traveled abroad with Lindsay multiple times. He loved our country absolutely with a passion. Look, Lindsey wasn't married, he didn't have kids. Every ounce of his life was the Senate. He would travel all over the world. It's just what he did. He was out. You know, I think it was beautiful and in some ways fitting. So he had just come back from Ukraine. He'd been meeting with President Zelensky. He came back to the United States Saturday night. He was on the phone with President Trump. And by the way, he was one of President Trump's closest friends. And I say that without exaggeration because Lindsey and Trump disagreed on a lot of issues, but Trump loved the guy. And it was hard.
- [04:44]
Ben Ferguson
If you saw him talking about him on Meet the Press, he's like, he kind of had like unfettered access. The White House, he goes, he really did a lot of people. But he was like, Lindsey just came over all the time.
- [04:55]
Ted Cruz
Look, Lindsey was like the Trump whisperer. He would call Trump. He talked to him early in the morning, he talked to him late at night. He talked to them day after day after day. And Trump, Trump didn't always agree with him, but he would listen to him. And Lindsey, when Trump was really mad about at something, Lindsay could kind of walk him back off that cliff a little bit. Lindsay was like. And I spent a lot of time with Lindsey and Trump together and the bond they had was, was, was really special. And it was in some ways almost a perfect distillation of his life that he is in Ukraine, he flies back to The United States. He's on the phone with President Trump. And Sunday morning he was scheduled to be on Meet the Press. It would have been his 64th appearance on Meet the Press.
- [05:42]
Ben Ferguson
And, and that's a lot in politics, by the way. Meet the Press is, is kind of like Saturday Night Live. If you're like a celebrity being on Meet the Press, that's a number that I would love to know what that is ranking compared to other Republicans. You've done it a lot, but it's not 60 something times.
- [05:59]
Ted Cruz
No, I, I've done it a lot, but it's nowhere close to that. And, and I try to be pretty deliberate. I do Sunday shows when I've got a particular message that I'm trying to drive, like when there's a reason, I try to be quite deliberate about doing it. Lindsay, look, look, I have two teenage daughters. I've got a wife. I've got a family. I want to be back in Texas, you know, with my family. And so a Sunday show, there had to be a reason to do it.
- [06:24]
Joel Osteen
Yeah.
- [06:24]
Ted Cruz
Lindsay, part of what he was, was just a warrior. Every day he'd go do the Sunday shows where the news were great. He'd go to the Sunday shows when the news was terrible and, like, nobody wanted to be out there defending whatever was on fire at that moment. And Lindsay was like, I'll do it. And he would. Part of it is he would do it in a cheerful, funny, affable way. If things were a mess, he'd kind of acknowledge, yeah, they're a mess. But, you know, all right, it was. I literally have been. Been walking around in a daze much of today because, I mean, I spent a lot of time with Lindsay and we would go out and I've been
- [07:00]
Ben Ferguson
texting you guys, by the way, you shared a picture that popped up on your phone. You guys were recently in Paris.
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Ted Cruz
So. And this was just. You know how iPhone kind of randomly picks pictures?
- [07:10]
Ben Ferguson
Yeah.
- [07:11]
Ted Cruz
Now I'm sort of convinced our phones, like, spy on us and know everything.
- [07:17]
Ben Ferguson
Yeah, that is accurate. I agree with you on that one.
- [07:21]
Ted Cruz
But bizarrely enough, today my iPhone, kind of midday, popped up a picture of me and Lindsay and Katie Britt and Eric Schmidt, all four of us in Paris, and we're on a riverboat and we're right in front of the Eiffel Tower, and we went for the 80th anniversary of D Day. It was an amazing trip. It was a powerful, beautiful trip. We got to see these World War II veterans who. It's the very tail end of Their journey on Earth, and the four of us are just arm in arm, and it was just beautiful. And I've been texting and talking to friends and colleagues, and all of us are just going, this doesn't seem real.
- [08:02]
Ben Ferguson
Real. Yeah.
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Ted Cruz
I mean, it's. You know, I did an interview with a reporter today who said, who will fill the void? Who will fill Lindsey G.R. graham's shoes? And my answer is nobody. Nobody. The role he played in the Senate, he was universally respected, but also universally liked and even adored by people who disagreed with him passionately. Yeah, he could be. By the way, the guy was as effective a cross examiner as I've ever seen. Lindsay was a South Carolina trial lawyer, and he could. On the Judiciary Committee, the two different committees together.
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Ben Ferguson
So people understand you guys. It wasn't just being, like, senators together. You guys worked on committees as well.
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Ted Cruz
We worked Judiciary. We spent thousands of hours together. We were on Senate Armed Services together. We were on Foreign Relations together. And we just worked hand in hand on a lot of issues. There are issues where we disagreed. Immigration. Lindsey and I were in very different places. But. But there were a lot of issues. When Lindsey was with you. I don't know that there was a more potent ally in the Senate when he was with you.
- [09:18]
Ben Ferguson
Yeah.
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Ted Cruz
And it would. He could be. Look, it was. I can't count. There are a hundred different Senate Republican lunches when people were having really passionate, sharp disagreements about something, and Lindsey would stand up and say something, and he'd always have a joke and people be doub over laughing. There'd be times when people are, like, screaming at each other, almost ready to, like, you know, take a swing at each other. And Lindsey would sort of cut the tension and bring people back to the task at hand. You know, when I'm in D.C. fairly regularly, I'll have dinner with other senators, and there's kind of a group of folks that I invite that are sort of the, like, guys I like hanging out with. And Lindsey was almost the auto invite, because if Lindsay showed up at the table, your ribs would hurt from laughing. And, and by the way, it wasn't just that he was, like, telling jokes. He was just insightful and smart, and he cared. Look, look, whether you love this country,
- [10:22]
Ben Ferguson
that's one of the things he. I, I don't think people understand how much he loved this country. You mentioned he didn't have. He wasn't married, didn't have kids. His family was America. His family was defending America. I said this this morning on Fox and Friends. He had a grand it was a love story with the United States of America.
- [10:40]
Ted Cruz
Yes. I'll tell you, it was also with our military. So.
- [10:44]
Ben Ferguson
Absolutely.
- [10:44]
Ted Cruz
Lindsey spent 33 years in the Air Force, active duty as a colonel. You don't know that he rose up to being a colonel. I did tell him, I said, lindsey, if the clowns at the Pentagon ever try to give you a star, damn it, I'm going to the floor to filibuster it. I ain't calling you General Graham. You can be Colonel Graham, but just understand there's a hard ceiling. And he basically agreed with me and said, yeah, I sure hope they don't make me a general. They shouldn't. I mean, that's like a classic. He was. And I've been with him both in the US and abroad, where we would meet with servicemen and women and he had a connection to the men and women of the armed services, a love affair where they loved him. And I would see them come up and like, hug him. And he would, he viewed it as his mission. I'm going to fight for you if you're defending this country, if you sign up to be in the military, I'm going to fight ferociously for you. And that was, it was real, it was sincere, it was passionate. That was a beautiful thing.
- [11:55]
Ben Ferguson
You know, I, I think one of the cool things about his services country. I've got a lot of friends that signed up after 9, 11. And in politics, sometimes they get frustrated with people that serve their country and they go to Washington and everything is based on, well, I was in the military and you weren't kind of thing. He didn't use his military service that.
- [12:14]
Ted Cruz
No, no.
- [12:15]
Ben Ferguson
And a lot of people didn't realize that, number one, he was a colonel until he passed away. A lot of people didn't realize he was in for 30 years. A lot of people didn't realize he was in the reserves while serving his country in Congress. He, he continued to be in the reserves and, and to continue to do that. But he didn't come in and go, well, I would, I, sir, it wasn't a trump card for him. And it was a. It was, it was.
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Joel Osteen
He.
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Ben Ferguson
He obviously fought hard for, for military and he fought hard for things in the state that were related to military and military complex and bases. But it wasn't his number one thing on tv. Like, well, let me tell you why, because I served and you didn't. He didn't use it that way publicly.
- [12:51]
Ted Cruz
Never.
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Ben Ferguson
And a lot of, and a lot of people that I know that are in the military and have recently retired. That gave 20, 25 years. That's what they liked about him the most.
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Ted Cruz
Well, and look, to understand Lindsay, he grew up in modest circumstances in South Carolina. He grew up. His parents ran a bar and a pool hall. And part of. To understand Lindsay's magic is he was like the best bartender you've ever seen who would smile and crack a joke. And whether you were celebrating a great thing that happened in your life or you were there weeping because your wife just divorced you, or you just had a death in the family. And he could. The charm that he brought, the sort of effortless. I remember years ago, I was at a Silver Elephant dinner, which is the big Republican dinner in South Carolina. He was speaking there. And at the time, Reince Priebus was the chairman of the rnc. And I think Reince was speaking at that dinner. This was a while ago, but I think Reince was speaking at that dinner. I remember Lindsey got up and went, reince Priebus, Reince Priebus. What the hell is that? Is that like a French electric car? And like, it brought the House down. I mean, he would throw lines out there all the time. And it was. He also had a special gift for, I would say, earning the trust of and providing really valuable counsel to extraordinarily volatile, larger than life figures. And two in particular, John McCain and Donald Trump.
- [14:38]
Michael Knowles
Yes.
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Ted Cruz
Now, look, John McCain. I served a lot of years with John. When I arrived in the Senate, John McCain hated my guts. In fact, he was quoted as saying, I hate his effing guts. Like, John and I battled in a bloody way. Yes. Over the years, John and I became friends. But John was, you know, in terms of the history of the Senate, John McCain was one of those legends who have walked the halls of the Senate. I disagreed with so many positions John had. Yeah, but. But the man was a war hero. The man fought for a country. He was. He was imprisoned in Vietnam. He was tortured. He denied early release. I mean, he was larger than life.
- [15:18]
Ben Ferguson
Yes.
- [15:18]
Ted Cruz
And he could be volcanic. Like, John's temper
- [15:23]
Ben Ferguson
was real. It was real.
- [15:25]
Ted Cruz
Oh, I had been.
- [15:26]
Ben Ferguson
I've been on this. I've been on the other end of that. You've been on the other end of that. And it is. Let me tell you, I. The talking tos that I received earlier in my career were brutal when I got them.
- [15:37]
Ted Cruz
Lindsay was John McCain's best friend in the Senate, and he was the McCain whisperer. I mean, it was an amazing thing. And Lindsay would kind of soften John's you know, he come in and pound the hell out of someone, and Lindsay sort of cut a joke and like, Mel, you know, mend make it all better. Yeah, it was.
- [15:55]
Ben Ferguson
Joe Lieberman said he spoke Democrat and Republican. Well, is. I think the way he described it, he could. He could. He could. And he could speak McCain, which was really important.
- [16:05]
Ted Cruz
And he also speaks Trump. Like, look, there are times just like John McCain, we get really pissed off. There are times, this is no secret, when Donald Trump gets pissed off and when he's angry and he's, like, on a tear. Lindsey was. We'd kind of all say, lindsey, go on in there and sort of talk him down. And Lindsey could. It was an amazing thing. He just sort of laugh a little bit, and, you know, Trump would yell at him, and he'd make Trump laugh, and it would just soften the whole thing. He had a gift for that. And it was not just because he wanted people to like him. He had a gift because he was trying to get these. These great men. He was trying to move them in what he believed was a positive direction for America. And it was a beautiful thing to watch him do that. I will say, Lindsey, some of y' all who listen to Verdict may not know this. Lindsey Graham was the very first guest.
- [17:00]
Lindsey Graham
Yes.
- [17:00]
Ted Cruz
In the history of Verdict. Like when we had just launched this show. This show launched on the first night of the very first Trump impeachment. And the show went from zero. Look, before we launched, we had zero viewers, zero listeners.
- [17:15]
Michael Knowles
Yeah.
- [17:15]
Ted Cruz
It skyrocketed up the charts, and it became the number one ranked podcast in the world. And as we're doing it, and we would do it every night. This was PB Pre Ben. This is what I was doing with Michael Knowles, who's a great friend of both of ours.
- [17:33]
Lindsey Graham
Yeah.
- [17:34]
Ted Cruz
And it would be every night after the impeachment trial, we'd go and do a verdict that night and put it out real time. And Lindsay came. All right, I want you to watch the cold open for our show that Lindsay recorded as our very first guest ever.
- [17:50]
Ben Ferguson
All right, take a listen. This is again the cold open. Lindsey Graham, the first guest on Verdict back in the day.
- [17:57]
Lindsey Graham
Hello, I'm Senator Lindsey Graham. Welcome to Verdict with Ted Cruz, the number one podcast in the entire country. What is a podcast?
- [18:13]
Michael Knowles
Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz. I'm Michael Knowles. I'm joined by not one, but two US Senators to help us break down the most shocking day of the entire impeachment trial. Senator Graham, thank you so much for being here. Glad to Be here, gentlemen. The last time that we sat down, I was told this impeachment was going to drag on for weeks. We were going to get witnesses. We were going to get Bolton. We were going to get Hunter Biden. This was going to get long and ugly. I go to sleep, I wake up today, and the senators are voting no more witnesses. This thing could be over next week. Senator Cruz, what happened?
- [18:47]
Ted Cruz
Well, today was a big day. And let me say, Lindsey, thank you. I appreciate your coming. This is late at night. We spent all day, all day spending
- [18:55]
Lindsey Graham
a lot of money on production.
- [18:59]
Ted Cruz
Well, this was. You're right, yesterday. If the vote had gone differently today, this trial could have gone on for months. We could have seen it drag on and on and on. And it was a big deal. It was up in the air. And today was the most important vote we've had in the entire.
- [19:15]
Ben Ferguson
By the way, I love that even there, he cracked a joke. He's like, you're not spending a lot on production. Like, he had to get a zinger in there. That's just what made Lindsey Lindsay.
- [19:23]
Ted Cruz
Well, and look at the time. We were filming Verdict in a basement studio about a mile from Capitol Hill. And so we drove there after the day of the trial. It was like, midnight. And you went to this basement studio. You walked in a dark alley, and you walked down these, like, concrete stairs. And listen, Lindsay and I, at the time were not actually that close of friends. We had been more adversaries than friends. Our friendship developed over the years. And as we're walking down the stairs, he's like, I feel like Joe Pesci and Goodfellas. Are you getting ready to whack me? Because, like, we're, like, walking into a dark basement in the middle of nowhere. And he looks around. In our studio, we had this shag carpet out of the 1970s. We had these big, old brown leather chairs. We had these giant microphones. Kind of like. We still have the giant microphones.
- [20:15]
Lindsey Graham
Yeah.
- [20:16]
Ted Cruz
And he says on the show, the cactus don't. Yeah, okay. I miss. Miss our cactus. Our cactus is still. Our cactus is still part of the Verdict family. But he looked around and he said. Said this on the podcast. He's like, you guys are the number one podcast in the world. Who the hell is number two? Some guy in a van by the river.
- [20:40]
Lindsey Graham
Yeah.
- [20:41]
Ted Cruz
Like, it was. It was side splitting, but. But that charm, it had real power.
- [20:51]
Ben Ferguson
Yes.
- [20:51]
Ted Cruz
Because it would cause people to listen. It would break through and listen. He was not always joking. If you were to think of the singular moment what is the number one thing people remember that Lindsey Graham did? And I'm going to suggest it was when during the Brett Kavanaugh confirmation hearing,
- [21:12]
Ben Ferguson
I was gonna say, no doubt, Brett Kavanaugh and saving Brett Kavanaugh from the insanity of the left that were accusing him of the most horrific crimes without any evidence, making it up as they went, trying to destroy him. The same way they went after Clarence Thomas very much, but in a TMZ 20, 20/year type of going after him, just more vile social media. You didn't have that with a Clarence Thomas. Right. Like, Clarence Thomas was abc, NBC, cnn. It was mainstream now. They were trying to assassinate Brett Kavanaugh's integrity, and they were using all social media to try to accomplish it.
- [21:47]
Ted Cruz
Well, and. And Lindsey unloaded on the Democrats, and it changed the entire dynamics of the hearing. I want you. I want you. Many, many, most of y' all have seen and heard this, but I want you to give a listen again because I think there's a real argument. Without Lindsey doing this, Brett Kavanaugh may not get confirmed. Give a listen to Lindsey at the hearing.
- [22:06]
Lindsey Graham
Are you aware that at 9:23 on the night of July 9, the day you were nominated to the Supreme Court by President Trump, Senator Schumer said, 23 minutes after your nomination, I will oppose Judge Kavanaugh's nomination with everything I have. I have a bipartisan, and I hope a bipartisan majority will do the same. The stakes are simply too high for anything less. Well, if you weren't aware of it, you are now. Did you meet with Senator Dianne Feinstein on August 20? I did meet with Senator Feinstein. Did you know that her staff had already recommended a lawyer to Dr. Ford?
- [22:45]
Ted Cruz
I did not know that.
- [22:46]
Lindsey Graham
Did you know that her and her staff had this allegation allegations for over 20 days?
- [22:52]
Ted Cruz
I did not know that at the time.
- [22:54]
Lindsey Graham
If you wanted an FBI investigation, you could have come to us. What you want to do is destroy this guy's life, hold this seat open, and hope you win in 2020. You said that, not me. You've got nothing to apologize for. When you see Sotomayor and Kagan, tell them that Lindsay said hello because I voted for them. I would never do to them what you've done to this guy. This is the most unethical sham since I've been in politics. And if you really wanted to know the truth, you sure as hell wouldn't have done what you've done to this guy. Are you a gang rapist? No. I cannot imagine what you and your family have gone through, boy, y' all want power. God, I hope you never get it. I hope the American people can see through this sham that you knew about it and you held it. You had no intention of protecting Dr. Ford. None. She's as much of a victim as you are. God, I hate to say it because these have been my friends, but let me tell you, when it comes to this, you're looking for a fair process. You came to the wrong town at the wrong time, my friend.
- [24:12]
Ben Ferguson
Senator, you, you look at that frustration. That was genuine. It wasn't inauthentic. It wasn't something that was a pre planned moment. It wasn't scripted. We see a lot of scripted moments from politicians these days in some of these hearings or it's all pre organized, pre planned, protesters involved. That was real and raw. And as you mentioned, and I think you should explain a little bit more, this forced and changed the direction that hearing was going.
- [24:41]
Ted Cruz
Well. And listen, Lindsey's career, for a lot of his career, he's been a very bipartisan senator. Senator. He's worked with a lot of Democrats. As he noted, he voted to confirm both Justice Sotomayor and Justice Kagan. And the Democrats were all happy with him. They were all lovey dovey. And so when he says, look, I would never do to them what you're doing to Brett Kavanaugh, that had a power to it. I was sitting there at the dais when Lindsey was unloaded and you could have heard a pin drop in the room. You know, the silence when he asked Brett Kavanaugh, are you a gang rapist? And Brett says, no. And Lindsey's just silent for about four seconds and the entire silence, there's not a peep in the hearing room. That was a riveting moment. And, and, and by the way, you mentioned Clarence Thomas. Clarence Thomas is on the Supreme Court because during his confirmation hearing, the Democrats did the same thing, which is they sandbagged him with allegations from Anita Hill. And the American people heard Anita Hill's testimony and Clarence Thomas's, and by about a margin of about 2 to 1, they believe justice Thomas. The same thing happened with Brett Kavanaugh. That's why Clarence Thomas got confirmed. That's why Brett Kavanaugh got confirmed and Lindsay's. That moment there played, I think, a real part in people assessing and saying, wait a second, this is not a real inquiry. This is not a fair assessment. This is a political slime job. These guys had these allegations for weeks. They sat on them, they held them back this is, is a drive by shooting by partisans who just want power. That, that was what was effective. And I'll tell you. So my mom, Ben, you know my mom, she's. I love my mom. She's 91, about to be 92 in November. She is as conservative it can be. My mom thinks you and I are a little wobbly. She is a rock rib conservative, by the way.
- [26:37]
Ben Ferguson
I don't, I don't know if I ever said this on the show. I've never had more fun hanging out with your mom than, than your reelection night. Watching her be excited, watching her son, not a senator, her son when reelection, and just the beaming joy on her face. You weren't there when like in that part, you were busy and she, she came in and she was just so happy. And I was like, this might be my favorite moment of the whole night.
- [27:04]
Ted Cruz
So. So my mom, prior to the Kavanaugh hearing was not a Lindsey Graham fan. She mostly knew Lindsey because he and I had battled a lot on immigration. We had very different views on immigration. And so that's, you know, anyone who fights her son, my mom doesn't like. And so when that cross examine examination ends, my mother sends me a text and says, okay, I now love Lindsey Graham. And I actually got up a few minutes later and I walked over to Lindsey and I pulled out my phone. I said, lindsay, here's a text I just got from my mom. And I clicked on it and he cracked up laughing. And then my mother proceeded to go to his website and to give him $35.
- [27:55]
Ben Ferguson
Are you serious? That's cool.
- [27:57]
Ted Cruz
I am serious. And I told him, I said, lindsay, in my entire time in politics, my mother's never contributed to my campaign. And she's giving you money like it was. And he loved that. But it was. Look, he could be. When he was engaged in a fight, he was as effective a warrior as you could see. And that was powerful. And it was. He and I worked together. Look, you look. Last summer, the working families tax cut, the big reconciliation bill, which we've talked a lot about on this podcast. I still think it's the legislation that has the most conservative victories in it of any bill that's ever passed into law.
- [28:42]
Ben Ferguson
Yeah.
- [28:43]
Ted Cruz
Lindsey was the chairman of the Budget Committee. And the budget committee plays a critical part in reconciliation. It has to pass the budget resolution to begin with. Lindsey and I worked hand in hand. I don't know that we win that reconciliation battle without Lindsey's leadership as chairman of the Budget Committee. And he would. There were times when people are, you know, look, our majority is not always rock solid. You have people that run off this way, run off that way. And to get 50 votes to yes is really, really hard. And Lindsey was, was awfully good at it.
- [29:23]
Ben Ferguson
He was making friends. He would, I mean that's one of the lost arts in politics, I think, is just how good he was at making friends and, and making friends that he disagreed with in his own party and making friends the other side. But he also had just a way of understanding when there's moments to laugh and not. I, I told this earlier. I was young. I don't, I don't think I've ever told you this story. I was, it was probably 2005 or 6, 7 somewhere in there and it was something deal with Iraq or Afghanistan. And I was on, I think it was Shepard Smith show on Fox back in the day. And they asked me directly about Lindsey Graham and something he'd said. They played the thought come out of it. They asked me and I was pretty blunt and I was like, I strongly disagree with him, yada, yada, yada. I get done and it was one of those you don't know it's coming moments. Welcome to live tv. And so I, I gave my assessment. I get done center within probably a minute. I was not out of the seat yet. My phone rings now if you're 20 something and your phone rings and it's a senator, like that's like, it's, you know, you answer, right? So I answer it, it's 202 number and it's Lindsey Graham. I don't know who he got my number from. And I answer and he starts just unloading on me, telling me why I'm wrong. But it was all a ruse. He was messing with me because he was down the hall in the green room at Fox knowing he was going to see me in 20 seconds. So I'm on the phone walking out of the studio and it's, you know the hallway there, it's a short hallway. You go down make, it's on the left, green rooms on the right. And I'm hearing the conversation in my ear delayed and I'm hearing his voice and I walk in and we'd never met before. Like never had met before that moment. And I'm on the phone with him and he looks at me, he goes gotcha. And that was it. Like he, he didn't mind that was ripping on him. And I walked in there, we laughed and he talked to me for a minute but he literally just Wanted to mess with me. Like, it was, like, the perfect, you know, joke there, and that's how he was. But, like, after that, it was hard. He was smart. It was harder for me to go after him on TV because I liked him personally. From that moment of him, he could have been a jerk. He wasn't. He saw the humor in the moment and was like, I'm gonna mess with this guy. And it was. It was a brilliant political move, and
- [31:40]
Ted Cruz
that's who Lindsey was. I don't know a single senator out of 99 other senators who didn't. Didn't like, genuinely like Lindsey and consider him a friend, like all of them. And it was a gift. And by the way, I've been in Senate lunches, and we've talked about a lot of those Senate lunches on this podcast where things got raw and bare knuckles and on foreign policy. Look, Lindsey was an interventionist. He was an aggressive interventionist in the style of John McCain. He believed it. It was honest, but he was very much an interventionist. We've had lunches where Lindsey and Rand Paul would scream at each other. And Lindsey. Rand is very much an isolationist. Lindsey's interventions.
- [32:23]
Ben Ferguson
Isolationist interventions. And they couldn't be farther apart.
- [32:25]
Ted Cruz
And by the way, I. I'm in the middle of both of them. I agree with. With. With. With Lindsay about half the time and Rand about half the time. I've also been in lunches where Lindsey and J.D. vance would be screaming at each other. J.D. is. Is much more of an isolationist and disagreed with Lindsay. Like on Ukraine.
- [32:43]
Lindsey Graham
Yeah.
- [32:44]
Ted Cruz
I mean, they would go at it where. Where. Where J.D. vance wanted us to get the hell out of Ukraine yesterday. Lindsey was passionate on the other side, and they would slug it out. You know, JD Put out a very kind and gracious tweet today, actually telling that story. Say, look, you know, Lindsay has yelled at me, but I respected him, and he was my friend. And actually, I saw a clip today that I'd never seen before. So Blake Masters. Blake Masters ran for Senate in Arizona. I like Blake. I went and campaigned for him. Uh, he didn't win. I wish Blake had won, but he did not. Uh, and, you know, Blake is. Is more on the isolation side of things. He's more with. With Rand and JD and on Ukraine, he was a vocal opponent of the Ukraine conflict. And it's interesting. Lindsey went to campaign for Blake, and they asked him, well, wait a second. You guys disagree on Ukraine? I want you to listen to Lindsey's response as he's there campaigning For a guy with whom he has sharp disagreements on foreign policy. Give a listen.
- [33:45]
Lindsey Graham
Remember my race. Remember lindseygraham.com does anybody watch Sean Hannity? I was on Sean Hannity three nights a week saying, they're gonna shoot my dog tomorrow at midnight if you don't give me. I know you're living on cat food, but you can. You can spare a few bucks here. People responded. My opponent raised $132 million against me, the most in the history of the Senate. Matt, why? Because of Kavanaugh. They hated my gut. They wanted to destroy the guy's life. I sort of got in the way. That's the way. These people are right. There's nothing they won't do for power. So the reason people responded to me is, you don't have to agree with me all the time, but when there's a fight, I will show up.
- [34:36]
Ben Ferguson
He shows up. He's not lying when he says that.
- [34:39]
Ted Cruz
Yeah. And look, he would joke all the time. Like when he was running for reelection, the last time he would go on. On Hannity, he'd go on Fox News and he'd say, lindsey Graham dot com. Lindsey graham dot com Lindsey graham dot com. And he was shameless. I mean, he was like, hi, my name is Lindsey Graham dot com. He would raise money, and he'd say. He'd say, if you're a little old lady and you're trying to feed your cat, don't feed your cat tonight. Go and give me money instead. And it would. People would crack up, but they would do it. But. But. So Blake Masters, who lost that race, he tweeted out that video. But here's what he said in his tweet, which is interesting. Blake said, quote, once when a donor asked Senator Graham, why are you helping Blake, given how much you two disagree on foreign policy, he replied with a grin. So Blake's wrong about Ukraine. Who gives a. We aren't here to talk about how correct I am all the time. We're here to talk about getting the Senate majority because I want to be chairman of my committees. And Blake continues. Lindsay was cheerful and determined, and he understood that he played a team sport. May his memory be eternal. That. That. That's pure Lindsey Graham. He could disagree with you, and Lord knows he and I did, but it wasn't personal. He wasn't angry with you, and. And. And that sort of joy. Look, it is amazing the number of times you look at his relationship with Trump. Lindsey was a huge, huge Trump critic.
- [36:08]
Ben Ferguson
Yeah.
- [36:09]
Ted Cruz
And he ran against him, said he was going to destroy the world, by the way you look at me. All right, so in the presidential look, Lindsey ran against Trump, ran against me. And in the course of that campaign, Lindsey said, you know, if you killed Ted on the Senate floor and the Senate was the jury, nobody could convict you. I gotta admit that that was funny as hell. I, like, laughed. I'm like, all right, that's a hell of a line. Now, Lindsay ended up not prevailing in that race, obviously dropped out. And after Lindsay dropped out, he endorsed my campaign. So he came and endorsed my campaign and he campaigned with me for President 2016. And, and, and Lindsay said at the time he and I were doing a fundraiser together. And, and I stood up and I said, you know, I gotta say, this is the first time in my life I've ever been endorsed by someone who's publicly called for my murder. And that was kind of how Lindsey was. He had, you know, in the same time, you know, he and Trump would battle like crazy, but Trump just liked
- [37:14]
Jack Armstrong
him
- [37:16]
Ted Cruz
and it was real. And Lindsey liked Trump. Lindsey saw the power. Look, Trump has a cast iron backbone, he has courage. And Lindsey saw the historic value of, of President Trump's strength and it, and it was really important. Now, all right, I'll give you another story from, from first term Trump. We were having a dispute about funding the border wall. And, and the President wanted to sign, and, and was going to sign an emergency declaration and use the emergency powers of the President to shift funding to the border wall. I came up with a different legal theory that would let him build the border wall, let him build every penny of the border wall, 100%, but not do it through an emergency declaration. And my concern was, look, if you create the precedent for doing this, the next Democrat president, the next. If we have a President Bernie Sanders or President Elizabeth Warren, they're going to declare an emergency on climate change, they're going to declare an emergency on gun violence, and use it to justify all sorts of bad policies. So I had a second theory that would have done 100% of the upside without the downside of the bad pressing. And I pitched it to Lindsey and Lindsey was like, yeah, that makes sense. And so Lindsey and I spent a day trying to call the President and pitch this theory. And at the time, the White House staff did not want Lindsey and me to talk to the President. So they were blocking us, they were preventing us from getting through to the President.
- [38:45]
Ben Ferguson
The oldest trick in Washington is that one right there.
- [38:49]
Ted Cruz
And so we were sitting there, it was getting to be maybe 7, 7:30 at night, we were on the Senate floor, and we were both frustrated because for 20 hours we'd been calling the President. We hadn't gotten through. And I finally said to Lindsey, screw it, let's get in the car and drive over there. He's like, what? And I'm like, yeah, let's just go over there right now. He's like, all right, let's go. And then, oddly enough, a third senator jumped in the car. Ben Sasse, who was another friend, but he was just kind of standing there. And Ben's like, oh, I'll go. And so the three of us drove over, and we're literally. We're not invited. We're uninvited. We're just.
- [39:22]
Ben Ferguson
You're not on the list. And by the way, people need to understand there's two gates you go through, and if you're not on the list, they look at you like you're an alien.
- [39:29]
Ted Cruz
Okay, so we're driving over, and Lindsey calls and actually gets Trump on the phone as we're driving over. And he's like, yeah, we're coming over right now. And Trump was getting ready to have dinner with Melania, and it was like their first, like, couples dinner, a romantic dinner in, like, a month. And Lindsey's like, no, we need to see you right now. And so we go up to the residence, and Trump. Trump is pissed. He is madder than a hornet. Cause like, his whole date night has been blown up by us going over to the White House. And so we come over there and we're up in the residence, and Trump brings up a couple of lawyers from the White House counsel's office. And they're smart guys, but they were on the other side of this. And we begin arguing. And I gotta say, look, Lindsey could judge the prevailing winds really quickly, and he could see that Trump was not buying what I was selling that particular night. So Lindsey very quickly abandons me. He just jumps out and he goes and sits with Trump. And I'm arguing with this lawyer from the White House counsel. I mean, we are slugging it out. I mean, it was a bare knuckle fight. And Lindsey turns to Trump and said, who do you think is winning, how they do it? And, like, Trump's kind of laughing, and they're almost like color commentators watching us have this legal argument. And then in the middle of it, Trump calls one of the staff of the White House and says, bring us some of those pigs in a blanket, those little hors d'.
- [40:58]
Joel Osteen
Oeuvres.
- [40:59]
Ted Cruz
So they bring a plate of pigs in the blanket. And this goes on for, like, three hours.
- [41:04]
Ben Ferguson
No. So you guys straight up Trump, the date night?
- [41:08]
Ted Cruz
Yeah, it blew up the date night. We ended up not being persuasive that night. Although I will say Lindsey cut me loose so fast, and he jumped, but. But he didn't. Like, he admitted afterwards, he's like, yeah, you weren't winning, so I wasn't gonna be with that. He's like, I'll be behind you. Way, way, way behind you.
- [41:25]
Ben Ferguson
Right behind you. Yeah, around the corner.
- [41:27]
Ted Cruz
But it was the sort of thing that was very much Lindsey Graham, and it's part of why Trump listened to him, because he didn't win every argument, but he was there to go again and to go again, and it was really effective. And I'll tell you where it mattered enormously. There's no area Lindsey and I worked more closely on than Iran and standing up to the incredible danger to America. If the Ayatollah ever gets a nuclear weapon, I think it's an existential threat to America. I think if the Ayatollah, who chants death to America, gets a nuclear weapon, I think the odds are unacceptably high that hundreds of thousands or even millions of Americans would be murdered. And Lindsey agreed with that. And he and I worked hand in hand, over and over and over again, talking with President Trump every week, sometimes every day, saying, you're exactly right to stand up to Iran. The President has said repeatedly, Iran will never get a nuclear weapon. There will be zero enrichment. And Lindsey was an incredible ally that. That, that I was fighting alongside. And the President listened to us, which is part of why we've seen, seen the President's incredible strong leadership, taking out Iran's military capacity and stopping them from getting nuclear weapons, that. That was one of the most important legacies Lindsey ever had.
- [42:57]
Ben Ferguson
It's really incredible. We're going to do something really fun this week as well. That first podcast that you did with your first guest was Lindsey Graham. We are going to put that out this week, so look for that on the feed as well. Senator, I'm so glad you got to talk about your friend. I mean this so sincerely. I'm so sorry for your loss. When you lo friend, I've lost too many. You lose them especially sudden like this. It is gut wrenching. Hug your. Hug of your family, hug your friends, call your friends, check on your friends. I say that often to people. You just never know. And, And. And I'm glad you got to spend so much quality time with him.
- [43:33]
Ted Cruz
Well, he will be missed he left a legacy that. That was extraordinary. And, and I will say, whether you agreed with him or disagreed with him, Lindsey loved this country. And he devoted every waking moment of his life to fighting for this country. That was his mission. And I admired that. I admired that. It was real, it was genuine, and he made a profound difference. It is a good reminder. Lindsey was just 71 years old. He was full of energy and vigor. To be honest, if I were to pick one of my colleagues who was not gonna be making. Not gonna make it, Lindsay would not have been on the list. He had the energy that he was unstoppable in energy. And it's a good reminder to all of us that none of us are guaranteed to be here tomorrow. So hug your family, hug your kids, and say thanks to God for the privilege of living at a time of consequence and making a difference in our country. And I will say this, Lindsey Graham made an enormous difference for our country.
- [44:41]
Ben Ferguson
Amen to that. As always, thank you for listening to Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you. Don't forget to download my podcast and you can listen to my podcast every other day. You're not listening to Verdict or each day when you listen to Verdict afterwards. I'd love to have you as a listener to again the Ben Ferguson Podcast. And we will see you back here on Monday morning.
- [45:01]
Jack Armstrong
Why should you listen to Armstrong and Getty on demand? We're not boring. A lot of news is boring and tedious and depressing and makes you angry. You don't want want to live your life like that. Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong.
- [45:12]
Ben Ferguson
He's Joe Getty.
- [45:13]
Jack Armstrong
We're Armstrong and Getty. We try to bring you the truth and help you figure out this crazy
- [45:17]
Ben Ferguson
modern world about something about a comedic tone.
- [45:22]
Jack Armstrong
We have a winner. Yes.
- [45:24]
Ted Cruz
Listen to Armstrong.
- [45:25]
Jack Armstrong
You get it on Demand on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [45:31]
Joel Osteen
What God started in my life, he's
- [45:33]
Jack Armstrong
going to finish the Joel Osteen Daily Podcast.
- [45:36]
Joel Osteen
Surely goodness and mercy will follow me all day days of my life. What was meant for my harm. Lord, I want to thank you. Right now, you're turning to my advantage.
- [45:44]
Jack Armstrong
Your daily source of hope and encouragement.
- [45:47]
Joel Osteen
Your second wind is on its way. God is about to breathe on your life in a new way.
- [45:53]
Jack Armstrong
Listen to the Joel Osteen Daily podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your favorite podcasts,