Surging Support to Save College Sports, plus Mollie Hemingway on the Great Justice Sam Alito

Summary

The 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson

Episode: Surging Support to Save College Sports, plus Mollie Hemingway on the Great Justice Sam Alito
Date: June 5, 2026
Host: Ben Ferguson
Guests: Senator Ted Cruz, Mollie Hemingway

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on two major topics: the urgent crisis facing college sports due to the evolving landscape around NIL (Name, Image, Likeness) and transfers, and an in-depth conversation with journalist Mollie Hemingway regarding her new book on Supreme Court Justice Sam Alito. The show features commentary from Ben Ferguson and Senator Ted Cruz, with Hemingway joining for the Supreme Court segment. The tone is direct, urgent, and passionate, consistent with the show’s reputation for unfiltered conservative political commentary.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Crisis in College Sports and the Push to Save It

Main Theme:
Senator Ted Cruz outlines the chaos plaguing college athletics—uncontrolled transfers, inflated NIL payments, and the threat of eliminated programs—which has prompted bipartisan legislative efforts in Congress.

Highlights and Insights:

• The Crisis

  • Unlimited player transfers and athletes staying until late 20s.
  • NIL money creating “$40 million rosters.”
  • Non-revenue and Olympic sports are being cut, endangering traditional college athletics as a whole.

    “If we don't act, we are going to see much of college sports decimated and destroyed.” – Senator Ted Cruz (02:05)

• Personal Impact

  • Ben Ferguson reflects on how being a student-athlete offered invaluable discipline and helped change lives, particularly for lower-income students.
  • College sports uniquely provide educational opportunities and personal development unavailable elsewhere.

    “Sports actually saved their life. Not only saved their life, a lot of them, they were the first member of their family to ever go to college.” – Ben Ferguson (08:26)

• Legislation: The Protect College Sports Act

  • A bipartisan bill authored by Senator Cruz (R-TX) and Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-WA), with support from both major political parties.
  • Testimony from figures like Coach Nick Saban underscores the urgency.
  • Growing consensus among university leaders, conference heads, and even President Donald J. Trump, who issued a powerful Truth Social endorsement, urging Congress to act.

    “We have to save college sports.” – President Trump (Read by Cruz, 16:30)

• Danger of Inaction

  • Without reforms, only a small group of powerhouse programs will survive, and historic schools, especially non-elite ones, may shutter sports entirely.

    “In three to five years, I am certain that the University of Texas will survive... But it’s not at all clear that the other players in Texas survive. And I think that would be a terrible outcome if we lose historic programs.” – Sen. Ted Cruz (18:47)

Notable Quote:

“Sports brings us together. Look, we're divided on so many issues today...and yet you can go cheer on your alma mater...you're all standing together. That's really important.” – Sen. Ted Cruz (06:42)

Timeline:

• [02:05] – Crisis outlined; reasons for reform
• [03:38] – Coach Nick Saban's testimony (quoted by Ferguson)
• [13:44] – Bipartisanship and broad support, President Trump's endorsement
• [19:56] – Next steps: urging listeners to contact their Senators and support the bill

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2. In-Depth: Mollie Hemingway on Justice Sam Alito

Main Theme:
An exclusive interview with Mollie Hemingway about her bestselling biography “Alito: The Justice Who Reshaped the Supreme Court and Restored the Constitution,” exploring not only Justice Alito’s judicial philosophy but also behind-the-scenes turmoil like the Dobbs leak.

Highlights and Insights:

• Why Write About Alito?

  • Very little is published about Alito compared to other justices. His distinctive approach to originalism and role in major cases warranted a deep dive.

    “His own colleagues will tell you he’s this giant on the court...he has a particular approach to originalism that I think is interesting for this current moment.” – Mollie Hemingway (23:07)

• Dobbs Leak Investigation

  • Hemingway draws on extensive interviews, finding the leak investigation “incredibly poorly done.”

    “The investigation itself was incredibly poorly done. They pretty much just said, did you leak it? And if they said no, then they said, well, thank you very much for coming in.” – Mollie Hemingway (23:53)

  • Permanent damage to trust in the Court's family-like atmosphere.

    “Everything about the court is predicated upon trust. It's a quite small institution...and it just—It did permanent damage to the Court.” – Sen. Ted Cruz (25:37)

• Personal Fallout and Security Threats

  • Direct threats and danger to justices (e.g., bulletproof vests for Amy Coney Barrett, actual assassination attempt for Brett Kavanaugh).
  • Delays in issuing the Dobbs opinion increased these risks.

• Liberal Strategy: ‘Slow Walking’ and Political Pressure

  • Some justices slow-walked cases with possible political motivations, which Hemingway sees as increasing threats to judicial independence.

    “This slow walking...was confirmed this year as a tactic...in the hope that if they got it out too late, then state legislatures could not respond to the decision.” – Mollie Hemingway (30:47)

• Coordinated Attacks, Court Packing Threats

  • The left targeting conservative justices through media and political campaigns, e.g., ProPublica’s funding to investigate Thomas and Alito.
  • Attack strategy seen as an attempt to undermine or expand (pack) the Court.

    “This is a huge threat to the court and rule of law. What we're seeing happening from the left...the whole goal was to attack the integrity of Alito and Thomas.” – Mollie Hemingway (33:12)

• Alito’s Character, Legacy, and Legal Philosophy

  • Alito’s working-class roots, independence from elite institutions, humility.
  • His unique, tactical originalism compared to Justice Thomas.

    “He doesn’t seem to want the respect of many of the people he meets [at elite schools]...He’s quiet, he’s humble. But...he’s a very important justice.” – Mollie Hemingway (37:28, 39:03)

  • Alito’s legacy: likely always tied to Dobbs, but noteworthy for his steady influence on religious liberty and free speech law.

Notable Quotes:

“As one justice put it, it’s like if there’s infidelity in a marriage. You can keep going, but something has changed with that marriage.” – Mollie Hemingway (26:30)

“They want power and by any means necessary. And they view the Court as an extension of political power, not an institution that actually is supposed to follow the Constitution or follow the law.” – Sen. Ted Cruz (34:57)

Timeline:

• [22:30] – Introduction and why Hemingway wrote Alito biography
• [23:53] – Dobbs leak and shoddy investigation
• [28:12] – Security threats, slow-walking, internal Supreme Court tensions
• [33:12] – Left-wing pressure campaigns and discussion of court-packing
• [36:44] – Alito’s judicial character, career path, and legacy

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Notable Quotes and Moments

• On College Sports in Crisis
  • “If Congress doesn’t act, we will end up with hundreds of thousands of those college athletic positions going away.” – Sen. Ted Cruz (09:16)
• On Supreme Court Integrity
  • “There was no accountability for this leak. That was unimaginable.” – Ben Ferguson (26:51)
• On Democrat Court Strategy
  • “They just want to burn the power.” – Mollie Hemingway (34:27)
• On Alito’s Place in History
  • “People on the right should absolutely know more about him and understand what the left understood long time ago: he’s a very important justice.” – Mollie Hemingway (39:03)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:05–06:42] – Senator Cruz details college sports crisis and calls for action
• [13:44–18:47] – Bipartisan legislation details, growing support, President Trump’s statement
• [22:30–31:08] – Mollie Hemingway on Justice Alito, Dobbs leak, internal Supreme Court dynamics
• [33:12–39:43] – Threats to Supreme Court integrity, court-packing, Alito’s judicial style and legacy

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Episode Takeaways

• Action Needed on College Sports: There is a bipartisan groundswell to address the chaos in college athletics, with national attention and presidential support. Listeners are urged to contact their Senators.
• Supreme Court Under Threat: Mollie Hemingway’s book reveals the fragility of trust and the mounting political and physical risks facing the conservative justices, especially post-Dobbs.
• Judicial Legacies: Sam Alito is portrayed as an understated but crucial figure in shaping U.S. law, especially on originalism and religious liberty.
• Broader Political Context: Both segments stress the significance of preserving American institutions—whether college sports or the Supreme Court—against perceived leftist encroachment.

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Transcript

[Molly Hemingway]

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[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, this week I chaired a hearing on college sports and saving college sports and we've talked before on Verdict about how college sports is in crisis right now. It is chaos. You've got an out of control transfer portal with athletes transferring three, four, five times. You've got people playing until they're 26, 27, 28 years old. You've got people with six, seven years of playing time. You have virtually every athletics program in the country losing money and losing millions or Even tens of millions of dol our schools are going broke. They're canceling programs every week. You're seeing women's sports getting canceled. You're seeing olympic sports getting canceled. You're seeing your favorite tennis getting canceled. That happened at arkansas just a few weeks ago. And it is, if we don't act, we are going to see much of college sports decimated and destroyed. And so last week I introduced bipartisan legislation with Maria cantwell. Maria cantwell is a democrat from washington state. She is the ranking member, the senior democrat on the senate commerce committee. I'm the chairman of the senate commerce committee. This week we had a big hearing and we heard testimony from leaders in college athletics about the urgency of solving the crisis. Now, one of our witnesses was coach nick saban, the legendary coach of alabama. And coach saban's testimony was incredibly powerful. And give a listen to a little bit of coach nick sab saban on why congress needs to pass our protect college sports act.

[Ben Ferguson]

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[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, and that there's only a handful of powerhouses that, that, that that generate and can dominate football. And, and so what if we don't act? I think within five years we will see 30 to 50 colleges that have a football program and they'll basically be an NFL. And the rest of the schools, their programs will be obliterated. And there are a lot of reasons that's tragic. One is just sports brings us together. Sports is so much fun. Look, we're divided on so many issues today. We scream at each other. It really is hard to find common ground. And yet you can go cheer on your alma mater and you can be there with people of different parties, people of different races, people of different religions and you're all standing together. That's really important. Every bit as critical as that is, college sports is an amazing avenue for education for millions of young men and women. And until I really started diving into this topic and working to save college sports, I hadn't really focused on how college athletics is something that is unique in the United States. No other country has anything remotely resembling what we have here with college sports. There are today more than a half million college athletes right now every year. Athletics enables kids, many kids from low income homes, many minority kids who otherwise might not have had a chance to go to college. It enables them to go to college, to study, to get a degree, to learn skills, to learn hard work and discipline and teamwork and sportsmanship, accountability, just showing up.

[Ben Ferguson]

I can't tell you how much I learned from just the accountability, which, by the way, made me a better person. It made me better in business, it made me better in my job that I, that I did afterwards. There are so many young men when I was at Ole Miss that said they literally believe they would either have been dead, they would have been in a gang if it wasn't for sports keeping them out of trouble in high school. And then they said if it wasn't for college and getting that college education, they would have immediately been into bad stuff on the streets. They said that sports actually saved their life. And not only saved their life, a lot of them, they were the first member of their family to ever go to college. And they went because they were an incredible athlete. It gave them the opportunity, it gave them a free education that seemed unattainable, and it completely changed their family's trajectory in life. I think that's one of the most important things about college sports that people don't talk about.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

No, that is exactly right. And the status quo is unsustainable. If Congress doesn't act, we will end up with hundreds of thousands of those college athletic positions going away and those kids, many of them, having no chance to go to school, to go to college, to get those skills, those life skills that set them up for success. And look, the way I approach this, I didn't worry too much about the top 1%. I didn't worry about the Michael Jordans or Arch Mannings. I worried about the 99% of college athletes who are never going to play pro ball. But it's giving them opportunity.

[Ben Ferguson]

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Google Play Lingo Kids Everything Kids Love Center. Also, we've got a guest coming up In a little bit, we're going to be dealing with the Supreme Court, a best selling book, and, and Molly Hemingway is going to join us. So make sure you stick around for that. But before we get to that, we're talking about this incredible nil bill. And look, I had a ton of people center that were calling me. I had friends and people I've known in the past come out of the woodwork because they knew how important this bill was. They knew how important it was to you, asking me questions. There was a lot of people saying they're just not going to be able to get this done. There's no way you'll get bipartisanship here. That seems to not be true. And they said, well, there's no way even though he'll be able to get the White House behind it. That also doesn't seem to be true either. There is a lot of growing bipartisan support here to get this thing done.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, there is. And I worked for months. Maria Cantwell and I negotiated. We sat in a conference room six, eight hours a day negotiating provision by provision by provision. We introduced it with Cantwell and myself, a Democrat and Republican, and also with Eric Schmidt, a Republican from Missouri, and Chris Coons, a Democrat from Delaware. So we had two Democrats, two Republicans on the bill and we've seen phenomenal support for it. So the ACC has come out emphatically in support of it. The Big 12 has come out emphatically in support of it. Condoleezza Rice at Stanford has come out emphatically in support of it. At the hearing, Pete Bavacqua, the athletic director at Notre Dame, testified strongly in support of it. Gordon Gee testified at the hearing, former president of West Virginia University, also Vanderbilt, has been a president of actually five universities. He testified that this is a crisis and this bill is the only hope to save college sports. And we've had already We've had over 130 signatures from leaders at more than 65 universities come out in support of the bill. And importantly this week, President Donald J. Trump came out strongly in support of the bill. He sent a truth social that I want to read to you. Here's what he said. College sports, a great American institution that produces our many athletes, leaders and Olympic dominance is a total mess. And everyone is saying that it must be fixed. After unending lawsuits and crazed rulings, there are virtually no limits anymore. And soon most colleges won't have sports because each and every one of them will be bankrupt, never to be heard from again. Women's sports and the Olympics itself are in the most danger from this catastrophic situation. College sports are turning into pro sports, except with absolutely no rules, a result no one wants. University presidents, conference commissioners, student athletes, coaches and athletic directors all complain to me that it has become a disaster after years of no action and that schools were losing hundreds of millions of dollars a year. They compared it to a freight train that can't be stopped. That is why a few months ago I convened a roundtable bringing together a world class team of some of the best sports executives, student athletes and political leaders in our country. The goal was to find a bipartisan solution to fix the problem. Based on these meetings and the expertise of the leading authorities, I signed an executive order. But I always said that the best solution was to get a bipartisan act through Congress to my desk in order to save a long and embarrassing road through hell for these institutions. I'd like to thank Senators Ted Cruz, Eric Schmidt, Maria Cantwell and Chris Coons, among others, for introducing the Protect College Sports Act. This law resolves many of the most urgent issues challenging our universities and student athletes, stops the chaos, and most importantly, it may be the last chance to save college sports and colleges themselves before it's too late. The House has worked long and hard on this issue as well, and I'm very grateful to Speaker Mike Johnson and Leader Steve Scalise for their work to fix this very major problem. I urge the House and Senate to come together to pass a final bipartisan law that I can sign this summer that reflects the views and input of both chambers and in all caps, we have to save college sports. Thank you for your attention to this matter. President Donald J. Trump. The support we're seeing is really significant and I think we're going to see, I hope and believe, a big bipartisan vote in the Senate behind this bill.

[Ben Ferguson]

What's the timeline now and how much is there going to be people pushing since now this has become so, you know, such a big discussion to try to change things the last minute. Is that going to be a problem and what does that look like?

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Oh, look, look, that is going on and there are a handful of people that are criticizing and throwing rocks. But I'll tell you, most people are shocked that we could actually find a bipartisan compromise. And listen, one of the nature of that that means that I had to give quite a bit and the Democrats had to give quite a bit to find a common ground because we can't pass this bill unless you get at least 60 votes in the Senate. That means you need at least seven Democrats, there are only 53 Republicans. And my objective, frankly, is to get a lot more than 60 votes. I'd like to see a big bipartisan vote come out of the Senate. The House has tried several times to fix this problem, and unfortunately, every time they've tried to take up a bill, it's failed in the House. And so I think the Senate has got to step in because the clock is ticking. And I will say that there's a real risk also of the biggest players coming together to form a super league. And I think that would be disastrous for everybody else and not good for fans. Let's take my home state of Texas. Look, my home state of Texas, if Congress does nothing in three to five years, I am certain that the University of Texas will survive, and I'm certain A and M will survive. They're so big. They have such a big donor base and alumni base. They'll survive no matter what happens. But it's not at all clear that the other players in Texas survive. It's not clear that TCU or SMU or University of Houston or Rice or Texas Tech or Baylor, all of the different programs in Texas, they could go under in the status quo. And I think that would be a terrible outcome if we lose historic programs all over Texas. Not just football, but when you lose football, football pays for all the other sports. So when you lose football, you end up losing the entire array of sports. That would be tragic, and we can't let it happen.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, you're absolutely right there. If people want to get behind this legislation, is this one of those where they talk to their senators and their congressmen? Who do they need to contact quickly?

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Look, the first order of business is your senator, and urging your senator, whether your senator is a Republican or Democrat, urging your senator get behind this bill, the bipartisan Protect College Sports Act. There's an urgency I am hoping to move quickly on this. I'd like to get a big vote in the Senate. Once we get it out of the Senate, then the next step will be the House. But calling your senator, going on social media, speaking out and saying that sports, college sports should be saved, that's really valuable.

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[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, sure. We are very glad to welcome to Verdict. Molly Hemingway. Molly Hemingway is the editor in chief of the Federalist. She is an award winning journalist, she is a best selling author and she has a brand new book that is a bestseller. It is called Alito the Justice who Reshaped the Supreme Court and Restored the Constitution. Molly, welcome to Verdict.

[Molly Hemingway]

It is great to be here with you.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

So let's start with this. What what caused you to write a book to tell Justice Alito's story? These are obviously very consequential times. He's an historic justice. But what caused you to say that you wanted to do a biography of Justice Alito?

[Molly Hemingway]

Well, there are a few different things. We know so much about so many of the justices. They've written books about themselves. There are other books about them. There's nothing, almost nothing about Justice Alito out there, even though his own colleagues will tell you he's this giant on the court and he has a particular approach to originalism that I think is interesting for this current moment. We're in that doctrine about how you interpret the Constitution according to its original meaning. There are a majority of Justices who self identify as originalists. He's a little different than some of his colleagues. So I wanted to explore that and I also wanted to look into that Dobbs leak and dig into what happened there and who people thought was involved and more on that.

[Ben Ferguson]

That's the million dollar question, right? Like what happened there? What did you find out?

[Molly Hemingway]

I did talk to, I interviewed nearly 100 people for the book, including former clerks, staff justices, and the number one thing I took away from this is that the investigation itself was incredibly poorly done. They waited a very long period of time to even begin digging into things. They didn't have a good understanding of how much access clerks had to the draft decision outside of the court building. There truly like a million different ways it could have been leaked. But the questions weren't hard hitting enough. So instead of saying, what has been your contact with this journalist who published this? Or do you or does any member of your family or a friend have contact with this person? They pretty much just said, did you leak it? And if they said no, then they said, well, thank you very much for coming in. There's no way you're gonna find out answers when that's the level of investigation.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

So why do you think the investigation was shoddy?

[Molly Hemingway]

It certainly is not something that the marshal of the Supreme Court is used to having to do. As you know, the culture of the court is such that it's unthinkable that you would leak something like this. And it's not that it wasn't possible for people to leak previously a draft decision. They just had the type of moral character that would prevent them from doing it. And the chief, of course, is very adamant when clerks begin and other staff begin about the importance of the, the integrity of the court and not leaking any information whatsoever. So I think it was just this is not something that this, that the marshal had done previously. It was a very sensitive situation. It was still also in somewhat in the aftermath of COVID So the new procedures that had been in place weren't well understood. But ultimately, you know, I think it was a real failing and probably they would have done things differently if they had to do it over again.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Yeah, you know, you use the word unthinkable and that's not an exaggeration. I remember when the Dobbs draft opinion leaked and I was at dinner when Politico broke the story and it was stunning. I just stared at my phone in shock because everything about the court is predicated upon trust. It's a quite small institution. You have nine justices Each justice has four clerks, and it's a small, little intimate family. And there's a robust back and forth. Almost all the edits are done via, in writing, going back and forth with the Justices, communicating with each other. And it just, It did permanent damage to the Court in terms of the trust the Justices have for each other. I think changed the court.

[Molly Hemingway]

As one justice put it, it's like if there's infidelity in a marriage, you can keep going, but something has changed with that marriage. Nobody really thought it was a Justice. The justices themselves certainly didn't think it was a Justice. But just knowing that things aren't as trustworthy as people thought was a big issue. But I love. Oh, sorry.

[Ben Ferguson]

You know, if this ever happens again, what was your takeaway? Would they do it the same way? Should there be a different way of there being an investigation? I, I'm, I'm a pessimist. I think, well, if Democrats want to leak out a decision in the future again that they want to try to stop and put pressure on justice, they'll do it again. There was no accountability for this leak. That was unimaginable, as Senator Cruz just put it. What would, what would be different the next time, if anything at all?

[Molly Hemingway]

I do think that there was something singular about this situation. Abortion in the court has always been difficult. That's actually where a lot of the leaks have happened previously as well. And even the person who did the leak, until he or she admits it, we probably won't know who did it again. It was something that could be done very easily without detection. So I don't think it would be. I don't see it happening again. But there is still time actually to think about whether there should be a better investigation into this, including whether there's any role for an outside investigator, law enforcement investigator. One of the things I think is interesting is that after the leak of this decision, you had attacks on the lives of the justices. You had organized and coordinated protest activity. You had the firebombings of the churches and the pro life pregnancy centers. It is illegal to do this, do something with the intent to affect the outcome of a decision.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And yet the Biden Justice Department did nothing, refused to follow federal law. Look, one of the things that really bombshell facts that you report in this book is you report Justice Kagan screaming at Justice Breyer so loud that the walls were shaking over Dobbs. Tell us about that.

[Molly Hemingway]

Well, after the leak happened again, the lives of the justices are immediately threatened. You have justices having to be moved to secure Locations, Amy Coney Barrett having to put on a bulletproof vest in front of her children. We also had the situation where she recently was the victim of a swatting attempt where someone tried to get her house swatted. And you had Justice Kavanaugh, of course, with an assassin outside of his house. Well, prior to that happening with Justice Kavanaugh, some of the justices asked the dissenting justices to please wrap up their dissent so that the decision could be released. Until a decision is released, it's not final. So if one of the justices were to die, that would mean Dobbs was not handed down.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

And let's just underscore that point, because if one of the justices were to die, this is an area where passive voice doesn't really capture it, to really underscore it. That means if one of the justices in the majority were to be murdered, suddenly Dobbs cannot issue, and Roe vs Wade is not overturned. And so the assassin who came with plans to murder Brett Kavanaugh and the other conservative justices could have changed history. And every day that there was a delay, there was an added risk that someone would murder one of those justices.

[Molly Hemingway]

So a request was put forth by Alito and also by Justice Gorsuch. Could you wrap this up? Could you give us a date by which time you'll be done? And they wouldn't. The liberal justices would not give a date. But after that conference, Kagan went to Breyer's chambers. Breyer is a liberal, but he is a gentleman. And his colleagues, he cared about his colleagues and their lives. So he seemed most amenable to wrapping things up. And Kagan did implore him not to accommodate the conservative justices. They finally say, we'll get something out by June 1st. We'll get something done by June 1st. And they do, in exchange for getting other decisions done later. But they include this gratuitous footnote that was completely unnecessary for another decision that really wasn't gonna be handed down for another several weeks. And so during that period of time before it was finally handed down, I think it was June 23rd. That was when Kavanaugh actually had the assassin outside of his home.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Wow.

[Molly Hemingway]

And this slow walking, which I report in Alito, the book, was also confirmed, I think, this year, as a tactic that is being used by the liberal justices. We learned that they were also slow walking that Klay decision, that Voting Rights act decision, in the hope that if they got it out too late, then state legislatures could not respond to the decision.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well. And Ketanji Brown Jackson was quite vocal and wrote about Wanting to delay that decision with a very explicit, I think, objective of preventing state legislatures from acting and redistricting. And it's one of the most partisan disputes we've ever seen at the court. Her effort to have a real impact on the election in November.

[Molly Hemingway]

And I will point out that Justice Alito actually responded to her by pointing out this is a case that we heard in October and it was not the first time they heard it. They heard it the previous term as well, pointing out that every other decision from that term had already been released. That this slow walking was political.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Yeah.

[Molly Hemingway]

Handing down a decision that needs to be handed down is not political slow walking. It, however, is.

[Ben Ferguson]

All right, I want to take a moment here and I want to also talk to you about an amazing product that we've been giving our dog, Birdie. It is from Rough Greens. I gotta tell you, one of the best days is when you bring home a brand new puppy. Ours is named Birdie. The tiny paws, the wagging tail, you know, that excitement that they bring, the energy that just doesn't quit. And that's why we sprinkle Rough Greens, America's number one dog supplement, on Birdie's food every meal. It's packed with all the live nutrients needed for our puppy to live a long and healthy life. Now you can join Birdie and thousands of other dogs and get your free Jump Start trial bag. Today. You just cover the shipping. Go to rough greens.com and use the discount code verdict. That's r u f f greens.com code verdict. Rough greens make any dog food better. This brings up a bigger question I wanted to ask you about Molly, and that was about the idea now that every time a decision comes down that Democrats don't seem to like, they don't, they want to either completely remake the court pack the court. Does that concern you? Especially as you were writing this book. How much? Now they're saying, oh, nine, maybe we'll move it to 15 or 18 or whatever the number is they want next.

[Molly Hemingway]

This is a huge threat to the court and rule of law. What we're seeing happening from the left, and I actually go into this in detail in the book, showing how coordinated the attacks on the court are, how well funded they are. To just use one example, ProPublica, which is a left wing media outlet, raised $53 million with the Express purpose of going after Justice Thomas and Justice Alito. And at the end of the year, they reported on their 990form that what they had done with $53 million, I mean can you imagine how many reporters and researchers you can hire? You know, high level people publish that many stories. But the whole goal was to attack the integrity of Alito and Thomas, two men who actually have a great deal of integrity. But this was done as part of the Democrat lawfare efforts that are going on to pressure the Court into agreeing with some of the more extreme lawfare efforts that they have had in play, whether it's, you know, kicking Trump off the ballot or having uneven prosecutions of conservatives versus liberals. And you see it with now so many prominent Democrats calling for the actual packing of the court. This isn't about, you know, having a thoughtful discussion about the number of people on the court.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

No, no, if they get power, they

[Molly Hemingway]

will do this packing for political outcome. And I'll just point out, conservatives were not in power on the court for decades and many bad things happened and they never once resorted to undermining the integrity of the Court. They said, we're going to put a lot of effort into electing senators who will confirm good justices, electing a president who will nominate good justices, and building up the network of people who understand what a proper, coherent, conservative judicial philosophy is. And the left doesn't want to do that work. They just want to burn the power.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

They want power and by any means necessary. And they view the Court as an extension of political power, not an institution that actually is supposed to follow the Constitution or follow the law. And in fact, they view the Court as an avenue to end run democracy because many of their most extreme policies are very unpopular. The voters don't want them. And so it's much easier to get a handful of unelected judges just to force it on the whole country than actually to engage in the difficult and messy business of democracy, of convincing your fellow citizens. You're right. You know, it strikes me that there are a lot of very similar themes in your book on Justice Alito that are in my upcoming book on Justice Clarence Thomas. My book is coming out in August. And like you, I spent a lot of time interviewing Justice Thomas, as you did with Justice Alito. And you know, one interesting bit of history is Justice Thomas and Justice Alito were both classmates in law school at Yale Law School. They didn't know each other, but they were classmates. And there's a funny story Justice Thomas told me when I was interviewing him for the book where he said, when he got, when he was at the court, when Alito went to the court, he asked him, he said, sam, why weren't we friends in law school? And Justice Alito responded, Clarence, you were scary. And Justice Thomas erupts in his signature just belly laugh, which is, as you know, infectious. Tell us a little bit about what made Sam Alito into the great Justice Alito. And you mentioned before what you described as his unique brand of originalism. Elaborate on that a little bit.

[Molly Hemingway]

Well, I think one of the things that sticks out is that he was raised in a middle class family by a public servant who he really respected, his father. He goes to Princeton and he's a public school kid. And he assumes that all of these elite kids are going to be really smart and give him a run for his money. When he gets there, he finds out actually he's doing just fine in the intelligence department. And also these elite kids are the ones who end up rioting, shutting down the campus. He knows that they will go on and have cushy jobs that their fathers gave them, whereas he needs the education. And so even though he goes to elite institutions, Princeton, Yale goes to the Department of Justice, he doesn't.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Do you want me to concede that Yale's an elite institution? That may be a bridge too far.

[Ben Ferguson]

Go ahead.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Sorry.

[Molly Hemingway]

He doesn't seem to want the respect of many of the people he meets there. He just does. He's not that impressed with them. And I think that's. You see that come through now. And it's the same thing with Justice Thomas. He cares so much more about people who are working at the Supreme Court than the people at the cocktail parties. And speaking of Justice Thomas, he and Alito work together very well. But whereas Justice Thomas, as one person put it, is the deployed aircraft carrier on the court, Alito's chambers are more like the Green Beret. They go and they prepare the land. He might agree with Thomas on where he wants to be, but he's gonna be more tactical about, okay, well, how are we gonna get there? And you even saw that again in the Clay decision. This Voting Rights Act. What does Thomas say? Section 2 of the Voting Rights act is completely unconstitutional. Alito might agree with that, but he builds together a six person majority to say it can't be interpreted that there are these racial gerrymanders, because that cannot be what the law means, given what the 15th amendment of the Constitution does in explicitly prohibiting such.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

So what do you think Justice Alito's legacy will be 50 years from now?

[Molly Hemingway]

For most Justices, I think they will be lucky to be remembered for one thing. And if it is one thing, it's definitely gonna be the Dobbs decision. But the reason why people should pay attention now is because of all these other important decisions, his incremental, solid work on religious liberty, speech issues. And I would say the other thing I find really interesting about him that people should pay more attention to is how effective he is in oral argument.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Yes, very much so.

[Molly Hemingway]

Positioning the court on what issue they should decide a case on. So he's quiet, he's humble. But I do believe people on the right should absolutely know more about him and understand what the left understood long time ago, which is he's a very important justice.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

Well, look like Chief Justice Roberts, Elena Kagan. Sam Alito is a veteran of the Solicitor General's office and is an experienced Supreme Court advocate. And that is a rare skill. And you see him displaying it from the other side of the bench as a Justice. And you're right, he's very, very effective at oral argument. Talk a little about his character. He's an extraordinary man. But share your thoughts on his character.

[Molly Hemingway]

Just really interesting to find Someone in Washington, D.C. with this level of humility. He's a family man. He very much believes in doing his duty. Even the fact that he's been a public servant his entire career. This is someone who could be making so much money off of the court. And he cares about, you know, even he hires clerks who are people who are gonna be devoted to public service or the academy. And he's just a very quiet, humble, but also very funny guy with a very subtle sense of humor.

[Senator Ted Cruz]

He's hysterical. Art. I wanna encourage everyone, go out and buy Molly's book. Go buy Alito, the justice who reshape the Supreme Court and restored the Constitution. Go to Amazon, go to Barnes and Noble, by the way, while you're there, go buy my book too, on Clarence Thomas. It's coming out in August, but you can pre order them, read them together. The two are great bookends. And you know what? They both would make fabulous graduation gifts, birthday gifts, Christmas gifts. Go buy Molly's book. And Molly, thank you for joining us.

[Molly Hemingway]

Thank you very much.

[Ben Ferguson]

It's really important. Don't forget, we do this show Monday from Wednesday and Friday as a podcast. So download Verdict with Ted Cruz wherever you get your podcast. You can also Watch us on YouTube so you can subscribe to the channel there. It's always free and on Facebook as well. The senator and I will see you back here on this radio station as well next week.

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