An Expert’s Perspective On The Pandemic

Summary

Podcast Summary: Verdict with Ted Cruz Episode: An Expert’s Perspective On The Pandemic
Release Date: March 22, 2020
Host: Ted Cruz
Guests: Michael Knowles and Senator John Barrasso

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz, host Ted Cruz engages in a deep and informative discussion with political commentator Michael Knowles and Senator John Barrasso of Wyoming, who brings his dual expertise as both a senator and a seasoned physician. The episode, released amidst the escalating COVID-19 pandemic, delves into the medical and political ramifications of the crisis, exploring the preparedness of the United States compared to other nations, the effectiveness of government responses, and the economic fallout resulting from state-imposed lockdowns.

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Ventilator Availability and Medical Preparedness

John Barrasso provides a reassuring overview of the United States' preparedness in handling the pandemic, especially regarding ventilator availability. He highlights that Wyoming hospitals possess 160,000 ventilators, significantly surpassing England’s 5,000 (06:14). This extensive inventory positions the U.S. as the most prepared nation globally to combat the virus. However, Barrasso expresses concern over potential shortages if the pandemic intensifies, emphasizing the importance of social distancing and hygiene to mitigate the spread and prevent overwhelming the healthcare system (04:58).

Ted Cruz emphasizes the critical role of ventilators in saving lives, drawing comparisons to Italy’s dire situation where hospitals are forced to make life-and-death decisions due to equipment scarcity (05:59). Cruz advocates for the swift production and distribution of ventilators, urging the administration to invoke the Defense Production Act to ramp up manufacturing and ensure real-time allocation based on regional needs (08:14).

Notable Quote:

“We need to do everything on the front end to make sure we're not forced into an impossible situation on the back end.”
— Ted Cruz (09:27)

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Government Response and the Defense Production Act

The conversation shifts to government actions and the invocation of the Defense Production Act. Ted Cruz explains his advocacy for leveraging this act to direct manufacturing capabilities towards producing critical medical equipment, such as ventilators and masks (07:00). He underscores the urgency, noting the potential exponential increase in cases and the risk of being unprepared if action is delayed.

Michael Knowles addresses concerns about government overreach, reassuring listeners that the Defense Production Act has historical precedence, having been invoked multiple times, including during the Obama administration. This invocation is portrayed not as unprecedented but as a necessary step in times of national crisis (10:31).

John Barrasso concurs, highlighting the importance of small business loans and economic relief to prevent widespread job losses and ensure business continuity during the pandemic (22:40).

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Comparative Analysis: U.S. vs. Other Countries

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on comparing the U.S. response to that of other nations, particularly Italy and England. John Barrasso points out that while Italy's healthcare system is overwhelmed, the U.S. maintains a robust ventilator capacity relative to its population (12:31). He contrasts this with England’s socialized medicine, which appears less prepared to handle the surge in cases.

Ted Cruz emphasizes the adaptability and economic strength of the American free enterprise system, drawing parallels to World War II mobilization efforts. He criticizes socialized medicine by referencing the struggles European countries face under the pandemic, suggesting that the U.S. model is more resilient and better equipped to manage the crisis (11:18).

Notable Quote:

“The United States is the most prepared country in the world to deal with this threat that we're facing.”
— John Barrasso (05:13)

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Impact of State Lockdowns and Economic Implications

Michael Knowles raises questions about the efficacy and conservatism of state-imposed lockdowns, seeking insights from both the medical and political perspectives. John Barrasso advocates for local control and personalized responses, suggesting that states and local authorities are better positioned to make informed decisions based on their specific circumstances (15:28). He emphasizes the balance between addressing the medical crisis through social distancing and hygiene and mitigating the economic downturn.

Ted Cruz elaborates on the impending economic challenges, highlighting the potential for millions of job losses and the strain on small businesses. He discusses the proposed economic relief bill, which includes individual checks and loans for businesses, aiming to sustain employment and prevent permanent closures (20:02).

Notable Quote:

“This is more like a natural disaster, more like a hurricane or a fire, where it's not the fault of the restaurant that shut down right now that this is happening.”
— Ted Cruz (21:18)

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Economic Relief Legislation and Future Outlook

The episode delves into the specifics of the economic relief bill being negotiated in Congress. Ted Cruz expresses cautious optimism about the bill’s structure, which prioritizes loans over grants to support small businesses while ensuring that funds are used for payroll and essential expenses (22:40). John Barrasso echoes this sentiment, stressing the importance of maintaining small business operations to preserve the majority of jobs in the U.S. economy (23:37).

The hosts discuss potential obstacles in the legislative process, particularly the risk of Democrats introducing modifications that could dilute the bill’s effectiveness. Nevertheless, they maintain that the current framework is a step in the right direction to provide necessary economic support during the pandemic (20:02).

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Personal Anecdotes and Leadership Insights

Towards the end of the episode, Ted Cruz and John Barrasso share personal stories that highlight their commitment to service and leadership. Cruz recounts his experiences traveling with Barrasso to support troops abroad, emphasizing the importance of solidarity and proactive measures in leadership roles (24:04). Barrasso shares a heartfelt moment involving his daughter, illustrating the human side of political leadership during crises (26:22).

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In wrapping up, the hosts address a listener’s concern regarding the CDC’s preparedness, critiquing the agency’s initial test rollout and advocating for greater private sector involvement in developing and distributing testing resources (27:22). John Barrasso reinforces the need for widespread testing to accurately assess the virus’s spread and fatality rates, underscoring the collaborative efforts between government and private entities to enhance response measures (29:11).

Michael Knowles concludes the episode by thanking the guests and reiterating the importance of transparent and effective government action in navigating the pandemic. The discussion leaves listeners with a sense of cautious optimism, emphasizing the resilience and preparedness of the United States in facing the unprecedented challenges posed by COVID-19.

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Key Takeaways

• U.S. Preparedness: The United States holds a significant advantage in medical equipment availability, particularly ventilators, compared to other nations like Italy and England.

• Government Action: Invocation of the Defense Production Act is deemed essential for ramping up the production of critical medical supplies and supporting economic relief efforts.

• State vs. Federal Roles: Emphasis on local control and tailored responses to the pandemic, balancing medical needs with economic sustainability.

• Economic Relief: Proposed legislation focuses on individual checks and small business loans to prevent massive job losses and ensure economic stability.

• Collaboration and Adaptability: Highlighting the importance of private sector involvement and bipartisan cooperation in effectively managing the crisis.

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This episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz offers a thorough exploration of the multifaceted challenges posed by the COVID-19 pandemic, blending medical expertise with political strategy to provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the situation and the necessary steps forward.

Transcript

[Ted Cruz]

A week ago, Verdict came to you from my living room while I was self quarantined in Texas and Michael was skipping and scot free in California. Today, the tables are turned. Now. Michael and the entire state of California are on lockdown. He's in effective quarantine with the rest of the Golden State. This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

[Michael Knowles]

Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz. I'm Michael Knowles coming to you from lockdown as. Now, even since the last time we spoke, the seventh and 11th largest economies in the world have gone on lockdown, California and New York. Now, Senator, thank you very much for doing that cold open because not only are you, are you doing my job on the cold open, you're also doing the job of the booking producer. You have brought along one of your friends, Senator Barrasso from Wyoming, who has expertise not only as a senator but also as a physician to help us try to understand this pandemic.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, John, welcome. John Barrasso, Senator from Wyoming. But he's also Dr. Barrasso. And so he is wearing not only a senator hat as the number three Republican in leadership ahead of the Republican conference, but also someone who's been a medical doctor for many decades now. And so welcome, John. Glad to have you.

[John Barrasso]

Great to be here. And I'll tell you, this is such a popular show, certainly in Wyoming Verdict, people turned it on every night during impeachment. And well, but remember four years ago you were the choice of Wyoming and we were big Trump territory now. But I'll tell you, you were the pick of the people of Wyoming who went to the Republican Convention in 2016.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, John, thank you. I will say you're the second senator to join us on this podcast. The first was Lindsey. And Lindsey, in his typical understatement, walked in and said, what in the hell is a podcast?

[Michael Knowles]

I'm cleaning up his language.

[Ted Cruz]

I think I'll also point out he looked at these gigantic microphones. He looked at this shag carpet out of the 1970s and he said, if you guys are the number one podcast in the world, who the hell is number two? Some guy in a park outside a van.

[John Barrasso]

That's Lindsey.

[Ted Cruz]

So you've got a high bar to reach. Lindsey's blazed the trail.

[John Barrasso]

Well, he is must see tv. He's a high wire act and people are always waiting to see which side of the wire he's gonna fall off of. But he's amazing.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, Senator Barrasso, I'm so glad you could join us today because I know that typically senators are able to Go home for the weekends. It looks like that will not be happening now. There are multiple bills that have been voted on. We're waiting on the next bill to come forward. I was wondering if maybe we could talk as Senator Cruz, as you mentioned, from your viewpoint as a physician, so much of this is focused on getting more respirators produced, getting them out to hospitals. Just from the medical perspective, where do we stand right now?

[John Barrasso]

Well, I'm happy to talk about all of those things because you're right. I go home every weekend to Wyoming. Was home last weekend, talked to a number of folks who were physicians, as I continue to do now by phone, but was there in a number of events around the state of Wyoming last weekend. And we have changed dramatically as America's economy and America is essentially shut down, as has the world. And when you think about last weekend, we went from a day in Las Vegas where the one day they were going to close down the buffets to two days later they closed down the entire town. So this is moving very quickly. And so it is as well, medically talking to folks at home. I talked to the hospital administrator. I said, do you have enough respirators? Well, they have 18 now. I've practiced medicine there since 1983, so 37 years. They've never used all of them at the same time. So by any stretch of the imagination, we have more than we need at our hospitals and around the state of Wyoming. But if this pandemic goes full blown, as we're concerned about and what we're seeing in other places around the world, there may not be enough. But to just put it into perspective, and Ted and I were talking about this at lunch. If you take a look at England, the whole country, about 50 or 60 million people, they have 5,000 of these ventilators, machines, breathing machines that you can hook people up to. We have 160,000. So for every one they have in England, we have 32. But we only have about five to six times the population that they have. So we are the most prepared country in the world to deal with this. Do we have enough? I hope so, but we may not. But if we don't, no one does. And that's the concern. And that's why we're working so much with social isolation and separation and keeping people distanced, trying to do the proper things with hygiene, all in an effort to prevent more rapid spread and a prevention of the ongoing concern that we have about the capacity not just with respirators, but what I hear when I Talk to folks at home is, are there enough tests? Can we get people tested who have symptoms? And then are there enough personal protective equipment available?

[Ted Cruz]

So, John, let's unpack this a little bit. You and I were discussing this over lunch. So the ventilators are these big machines for those of us without MDs, the big machines that breathe for you if you're either in surgery or you've got severe respiratory problems in an intensive care unit. In intensive care. And so the challenge is that you look at some of these countries, and I think Italy has seen it the worst. Where we're reading stories out of Italy where they've run out of ventilators and they're sitting there with multiple patients in respiratory failure, and they're having to make triage decisions of. This person gets a ventilator. We're gonna save this person's life. And this person. We're not gonna save this person's life.

[John Barrasso]

And they're not sure if it actually is going to work to save that person's life, because on average, some of these people are on these machines for 10 to 14 days. And at what point do you know? You know, they've been there a week, and you don't know which way it's going to turn. So the one of these machines gets tied up a long time with a patient who is on the machine, which is why they're working so hard with medicines that are already available worldwide that may help shorten the amount of time that somebody would need to be on the machine. The president talked about that with a malaria medicine, there's some hiv, AIDS medicine, things that we think may be helpful, also hepatitis medicine.

[Ted Cruz]

You were chief of staff at a hospital in Casper, Wyoming. You said they had 18 ventilators, and your whole time there, you never used all 18. They were all. Yes. What happens if at that hospital, 100 people show up with coronavirus and with severe symptoms? What happens then?

[John Barrasso]

And next thing you do after those 18 is the machines that you can use in an operating room for anesthesia if you put somebody to sleep. But that takes additional manpower, personnel that know how to use them, anesthesiologists know how to use them as they do during a surgery. But that's not 14 days. So you'd have to have huge amount of resources, people and personal protective equipment to keep those people safe while taking care of the folks with coronavirus. And that's the big concern, is that we may overwhelm and tire out the staff as well. They're already working significant overtime hours and if any of them get the disease, and some of them are, then they're taken out of the fight.

[Michael Knowles]

Right. Well, I know, Senator Cruz, you made a point of writing a letter about this in, in terms of getting these machines. Obviously, as Senator Barrasso says, we're in a much better position than other countries, but we could use more. You have suggested that the administration invoke the Defense Production Act. This is a law from 1950 that would turn our manufacturing capacity toward government ends, especially in times of war, times of a pandemic. You requested that the administration invoke this, and it looks like today they have.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, that's right. And so I wrote a letter this morning to the Secretary of Health and Human Services, Alex Azar, and I urged him to use the delegated authority from the president to direct the building of critical medical equipment and in particular, ventilators. I don't want to see us in a situation like horrifically they're seeing in Italy. I don't want to see doctors having to make a choice of who gets to live and who has to die because they don't have the equipment to save their lives. And you can't build a ventilator overnight. And if we wake up two weeks from now and instead of 11,000 cases, we've got 200,000 cases or a billion cases, it might be too late then. And so I believe that the president, the administration, ought to direct the manufacture of these ventilators and masks and other equipment that is needed. We ought to be directing it right now so that we can meet this crisis. This is. Everyone recognizes this is a public health threat. We need to do everything on the front end to make sure we're not forced into an impossible situations on the back end.

[John Barrasso]

And military opportunities to use equipment there as well from the VA hospitals and other sources. So there's some additional capacity, but it can still get stretched to the limit.

[Ted Cruz]

And listen, you don't necessarily have to have. The hospital in Wyoming doesn't necessarily need to go from 18 ventilators to 100, but there needs to be a central repository where ventilators are being constructed, where you can surge that if there's an outbreak in a region and ventilators are needed, that you can get them there and you can get them there in real time where the need is.

[Michael Knowles]

You know, some conservatives have asked about this. They say, is this a government overreach? Is the invocation of, for instance, the Defense Production act, something that is unprecedented? But it is worth noting this law has been invoked many, many Times over the years, it was invoked during the Obama administration. So while there might be concerns about how the government is handling this on this particular front, it seems sort of like a no brainer.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, and it's also how America has overcome virtually every major challenge we've seen is the incredible economic might of the American free enterprise system. I mean, it's how we won World War II as we directed. Remember, World War II for us started with Pearl harbor, started with a kamikaze attack, a surprise attack that took out a vast percentage of our naval fleet. And we leaned in and rebuilt. And it was the power of this economy that enabled us to win World War II. We can mobilize that same economic power to make sure. You know, it was a striking thing, John. I don't know if you watched any of the debate between Bernie and Joe Biden.

[John Barrasso]

Yes, it was painful, but I did.

[Ted Cruz]

I only endured about 30 minutes of it. There really was just sort of.

[John Barrasso]

Well, there were no sports on Sunday night. You know, the NBA was shut down.

[Ted Cruz]

But it was very interesting when Bernie was pointing to this crisis as justification for socialized medicine and what he calls Medicare for all. I thought it was striking that Biden jumped in and said, well, you know, Bernie, Italy has socialized medicine and we're seeing that it isn't working there. I mean, that in a Democratic primary was this sort of startling moment of sanity that stood out for how different it was from almost everything else in the primaries.

[John Barrasso]

And even the Washington Post, not known for being a conservative voice, had the challenges of coronavirus to countries with socialized medicine. And the statistics that I just gave you about respirators and ventilators, Michael, the breathing machines that cost $50,000 a piece, that's where all the statistics come to as to how few they have other places compared to the United States and why, according to Johns Hopkins University, the United States is the most prepared country in the world to deal with this threat that we're facing.

[Ted Cruz]

Now, you described the US Versus England and you said we're much better prepared than England. They have socialized medicine in England too. Yes. How does the US And England, how do they compare to Italy?

[John Barrasso]

Well, both are better than what's happening in Italy now. It's unusual with this virus. They're seeing that it seems to be affecting not just older people, older people who are smokers. And there's a question of has the virus changed and mutated a bit in ways that it's striking people differently. You know, you look at China, they're kind of over the hump, it looks like, in terms of new cases, if you believe them. I don't believe them. And at the same time, you're seeing significant increases in France. They had a big jump in deaths the other day. So is it actually getting worse in Europe as it's getting better in China, even?

[Ted Cruz]

You know, Michael, John and I are both members of two informal caucuses, I would call them in the Senate. One is the boot caucus, and there are probably 20, 25 senators that wear cowboy boots, Republicans and Democrats. And I've joked that if you're wearing boots, you can't be all bad. Sometimes our colleagues test that proposition. And then secondly, we are both among the senators of Italian American heritage. So as we look at what's happening in Italy, John's ancestors and my own trace their lineage there.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm sorry, I have to say I'm not in the boot caucus, but I am in the Italian caucus. And of course, that with a name like Cruz, I wasn't so sure about.

[Ted Cruz]

The Italian, but I'm certainly Cuban, Irish, and just a little bit Italian.

[Michael Knowles]

That is excellent, Senator. We claim him with a mortality.

[John Barrasso]

We claim him and are happy to have him.

[Michael Knowles]

But I'm sorry, I cut you off. As you were saying.

[John Barrasso]

No, I mean, it's Ted's right. And we talk about socialized medicine, and they're always stretched to the limits, so they really cannot handle the sort of things that are happening here globally. The stretch is even greater, and it's certainly this time of year. British hospitals are always overloaded at this time of year, and they have to cancel elective cases. And we are now in the United States canceling elective cases just to make sure the capacity, capacity is there. And a lot of it has to do with these personal protective equipment that folks need in terms of the masks, in terms of the sterile gowns, the gloves, all of those things, because if there's not enough of them, then they shouldn't be using them for elective procedures.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, Senators, I would be interested in, Senator Barrasso, your medical perspective and then Senator Cruz and your political perspective as well, on what the state lockdowns mean. You know, a lot of people have written in and they, they understand that we have a federal system, and so the states can do things that the federal government cannot do. But as a conservative and as someone with absolutely no medical expertise whatsoever, how should I be looking at the state lockdowns? Are they a good thing? Are they conservative? Are they medically necessary?

[John Barrasso]

Well, you know, I'm a states rights guy. I mean, that's how I was in the Wyoming state legislature. I am still that way now. And it's the governor of our state that's making decisions in many states. The governor can't even close down the schools in our state. It's a local decision by various school boards. Local control, local decisions. So I think it's better to have things done that way. Education is so much a part of this. But the more we can do to have people washing more frequently, staying in terms of the away from each other, the distancing, all of those things, I think is the better chance to take care of the first crisis, which is the medical crisis that we have, and then deal with the economic crisis that we also have. We just alluded a bit to the economic crisis and this strong and robust economy that we started from and having to get that all restored again. To get to that point, we have to get the medical crisis behind us. And the best way to do it is the social distancing, the proper hygiene and all of the things that we can do to, to stop the spread of the disease.

[Ted Cruz]

John, let me ask you. As you know, yesterday, Gavin Newsom, governor of California, said that over half of the people In California, over 25 million people, could become infected with this virus. As a doctor, does that sound credible to you? I hear a lot of people that are not sure the magnitude of the threat. What's your assessment from a medical perspective?

[John Barrasso]

And Angela Merkel said In Germany, maybe 60 to 70% of the population there, if this continues to spread, I think there's a difference between having the disease and testing positive or having the virus. I think there are some people that may become infected and not even show symptoms or show signs of it. We've seen it with the younger people, the children that may be carriers of the disease, that they would test positive. Then you worry about them near grandma or grandpa. So they could have the virus in the system and they can, but not really be affected by it. We're not exactly sure why that is. And when I talked about the possibility of a virus mutation and changes, now they're seeing in Europe sometimes, What is it, 45 or 50% of the people hospitalized are under the age of 55. I mean, we kind of thought of it as an old person's disease. And in terms of those dying, it does seem to be that older group. But some of the people on respirators are now in a somewhat younger group as well.

[Ted Cruz]

Now, are they mostly people who have asthma or other significant respiratory illnesses or.

[John Barrasso]

What I think they're still trying to figure that one out because the medical systems in Italy and France are overwhelmed. They're not that able at this point to kind of come back with good research numbers and tell us, well, and.

[Ted Cruz]

Their fatality rates go up. I mean, when the medical system's overwhelmed, you see 4, 5, 6% fatality instead of 1 or 2%.

[John Barrasso]

One to 2%, which is what they expected it to be. The flu, which I think this year in the United States is going to kill about 36,000Americans. That's 1/10 of 1%. Dr. Fauci said, you know, if we get everything and do it right here, it would be 10 times that. But you're right. Across the world, we're seeing numbers much higher than that.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, Senator Barrasso, to your point, there may be many people who have the virus or who are not showing symptoms or certainly who have not tested positive. Is there any way that testing will become so widely available that we'll be able to figure out what the denominator is? Because obviously, we're not gonna get a very good sense of the fatality rate if we don't know how many people have it in the first place.

[John Barrasso]

Well, that's exactly right. And Ted and I were to lunch with the President last week and Tony Fauci and others, and when they said, well, we're gonna have more and more tests available, I said, well, then you're gonna have a lot more positives. Just because they're already positive, they just don't know it. And we're now at that phase where I think we're over 17,000 positive tests in the United States, over 200 have died. But if you could get to the point where more and more people are tested, we may know that denominator as well as the numerator. And I think it would be more helpful to see.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, I know that both of you are going to be in town to vote on this next part of relief for coronavirus. Already we've seen some announcements from the White House today. Closing the border with Mexico, closing the border with Canada, putting off student loan payments for 60 days. I mean, there have been a number of provisions that have already come out. What can we look forward to as you guys are quarantined in Washington to see voted on over the next few days? And how will it help?

[Ted Cruz]

So I think we'll probably vote on Monday. Right now, where we are is that Mitch McConnell has filed a bill, and right now there is active negotiation with the Democrats. I don't know what's gonna come out of that negotiation. As I look at the bill, I think it is important that we see strong action from Washington to provide economic relief. I'm very concerned that we are gonna see in coming weeks millions and millions of job losses. Yesterday, I predicted over a million job losses. That the numbers I'm seeing Now are even 2 and 3 million coming up in just a week or two. I mean, it's. There are a lot of layoffs. There are a lot of people hurting. There are a lot of small businesses. There are a lot of restaurants and bars and hotels that are just really hurting. The bill right now that has been introduced has really two important components to it. One is the individual relief, and that's basically sending a $1,200 check to just about everybody, just about everybody who makes less than $99,000 a year. That's individual relief just to provide a check and some help. The second component is focused on loans for all of the small businesses, for all of the big businesses that are, you know, the airlines are losing billions. It's focused on loans to help those businesses survive so people have a job to come back to so that, you know, when you're. If you're a waiter, you work at a restaurant, and your restaurant is shut down right now, you sure do hope that when you can go back that that restaurant hasn't gone out of business. And so, you know, my view. Look, I'm worried about what the Democrats are going to insist upon, and it is possible this bill gets to be such a mess that I vote no. I mean, if they put a bunch of garbage in there, that's possible. I will say I would characterize myself as pleasantly surprised as a conservative about where the bill is right now, in that it is not a. It is not like the Obama stimulus. We talked last night about how tarp, for example, was very different because there you had financial firms whose own misconduct had caused much of the crisis. Right. This is different. This is more like a natural disaster, more like a hurricane or a fire, where it's not the fault of the restaurant that shut down right now that this is happening. I'm glad that it's structured as loans. I think loans are the right way to do it, but it is still very fluid and up in the air. I mean, what do you think, John?

[John Barrasso]

Yeah, I agree with you. I voted against tarp, and I'm happy with that vote. The small business component of this piece, I think is very important because it's a loan. But any money that's used to keep the payroll going out to the workers. Any money that's used to just keep the rent paid and the electric bills paid would be a forgiven loan. Now, if they wanted to use it for other things, that's different. So then they'd have to pay pay back with interest. But it would basically be a forgiven loan if it's used just so that the doors can open three weeks from now or whenever those businesses come. And that'll be done through the small business administration. 70% of the jobs in Wyoming, I'm sorry, 70% of jobs nationally are small through the small. Through small businesses. Less than 500 employees in Wyoming, it's almost 95 of the jobs through small businesses. So we want to make sure that the small businesses can reopen once we get the medical component of this behind us.

[Ted Cruz]

You know, Michael, one thing about John, he was one of the first senators I got to know. And the reason is that he and I flew together when I was just brand new elected in 2013. We flew together to Israel and Afghanistan. And one of the things really amazing about John is he's got a real heart for, for our troops and for our soldiers and sailors and airmen and Marines, and he travels all over the world. How many trips have you taken abroad to visit our troops?

[John Barrasso]

Well, I go every Thanksgiving, no matter where our Wyoming National Guard are, I go every Thanksgiving. And this past Thanksgiving talked to President Trump and said, you haven't been to Afghanistan. Love for you to go. Our Wyoming National Guard is there. And he went. We went in Air Force One. He surprised the world, certainly surprised the press and surprised the troops. And it was really a wonderful reception by the president, by the troops on the ground in Afghanistan. But, you know, every Thanksgiving, wherever they are, I'm with our Wyoming National Guard.

[Michael Knowles]

Wow, that's tremendous. And it certainly did surprise the press. I think they all thought he was playing golf. And it was quite a nice reveal.

[John Barrasso]

It did.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, yeah. I forget there was one reporter had to do a big correction. I forget which network had blasted him for playing golf. And I think he was literally in the air at the time.

[John Barrasso]

He was. Well, he was decided that the surprise worked. He wanted to be. He wanted. It worked. There were a lot of backstories, but the president.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, and you know, you have to do it that way. When we went, I think it was four or five of us that went. And on that trip in Afghanistan, I mean, I still remember, look, I'd been sworn into the Senate three days earlier, so I'm sort of brand New to all of this. And I still remember they're putting, you know, flak jackets on us, and we're in helicopters flying over active war zones and getting instruction about. All right, if they open fire on the chopper, here's what you gotta do. And look, obviously, when the president is coming in, you see Air Force One coming in. That has to be done at a high level of secrecy because there are a lot of bad guys who would love to take a shot at the plane of the president.

[John Barrasso]

And at night, and the windows closed and lights off, and only lights were on, were on the Runway so they could see and land, but it was very impressively done. And then they kind of a lockdown on communications on the ground until we were on the plane getting ready to go. And then they lifted the restrictions so that everyone could send their.

[Ted Cruz]

Are you saying, John, that someone actually managed to stop the president from tweeting?

[John Barrasso]

Well, that was part of that. Well, no. Well, someone was taking the role of the president as tweeter and continued to tweet during the trip so that the press wouldn't be suspicious or the public wouldn't be suspicious. That's cool. So, yes. His own phone.

[Michael Knowles]

How do I get that job?

[John Barrasso]

His own phone was taken away from him for the part of the trip. It was. Well, it was terrific. And the best part for me coming back, my daughter, who had gone deer hunting that day, Thanksgiving in Wyoming, shot this beautiful buck, and she had texted me. I showed the picture to the president, and we called her on the phone, and. Yes, Mr. President. Oh, it was the call of her lifetime to talk to the president. As he's looking, this picture of my daughter Hadley with the gun, with the buck, with the great. With an incredible rack on the buck. It was something that sounds much more.

[Michael Knowles]

Exciting than my Thanksgiving. You know, we have just about a moment left here, or a minute left, rather. I do want to get to one mailbag question. This is from Roger. Roger asks, why was the CDC and the government so ill prepared for this situation? I know the system was obsolete, but what could have been done in years prior to be better prepared?

[Ted Cruz]

Well, look, I think there are a couple of things. Government bureaucracies are almost always inherently slow, and they've got a bunch of regulatory barriers. So when it came to the cdc, you look at the rollout of the tests. The rollout of the tests, as everyone knows, did not go very well. And a big part of the reason why is the CDC tried to do it all itself. They tried to do it within the federal government. And they had a problem with contamination in the lab. So the first tests that came out didn't work. What we've done since then, and it's been a big shift, is that we've empowered the private sector. We've empowered labs like the Mayo Clinic and the Cleveland Clinic to develop tests. And I think they're good lessons learned. But look, that's not the first time a government bureaucracy acted like a government bureaucracy. It's not the last time that's gonna happen. But the more. And by the way, also on the FDA side, removing the barriers. We need to develop a vaccine. We need to develop treatments for coronavirus. We need to develop a cure. And there are a lot of wonderful professionals at cdc, fda, and they're doing heroic work right now. But the fda, they like their rules and they're hesitant. They're resistant to change. And we don't need a vaccine two years from now. We need a vaccine fast implemented. Cause we need to get out of this economic slowdown and get the economy back booming. We need to save people's lives. I mean, what do you think, John?

[John Barrasso]

I agree completely. I think the CDC had this kind of command and control centralization of everything, including the tests. And I think it. It didn't do as well as I would have liked. And I think the private sector is responding in a way that we know the private sector always responds. And that's why we have made the advances in the availability of tests that why we were behind at the beginning.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, that is a hopeful note to end on. We will have to leave it there. I know that both of you will have to go back because soon there will be a vote on the next stage of relief from coronavirus. Senator Barrasso, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you very much. And Senator Cruz, of course, thank you, as always, for shedding some light on what's going on. Because there is a real problem in the flow of information here. So it's really nice to be able to see what the government is doing. We will be back with a whole lot more, but we can't do that today. So in the meantime, I'm Michael Knowles. This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

[Ted Cruz]

This episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz is being brought to you by Jobs, Freedom and Security pac, a political action committee dedicated to supporting conservative causes, organizations and candidates across the country. In 2022, jobs, freedom and Security PAC plans to donate to conservative candidates running for Congress and help the Republican Party across the nation.