Bad Hombres ft. DHS Secretary Chad Wolf

Summary

The 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson: "Bad Hombres" Featuring DHS Secretary Chad Wolf – Detailed Summary

Release Date: August 7, 2020
Host: Ben Ferguson
Guest: Acting Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Chad Wolf
Duration: Approximately 30 minutes

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Introduction

In the August 7, 2020 episode of The 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson, host Ben Ferguson engages in a compelling discussion with Chad Wolf, the Acting Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). The conversation delves into pressing national issues, including civil unrest in Portland, border security, the role of DHS, and the broader implications of political rhetoric on law enforcement agencies. This episode offers unfiltered insights into the challenges faced by DHS in maintaining national security and public order.

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Civil Unrest in Portland: History and Current Challenges

Portland’s Troubled History with Federal Facilities

The episode opens with a focus on the ongoing civil unrest in Portland, Oregon, a hotspot for protests and violence against federal facilities. Chad Wolf provides historical context, highlighting a significant event from 2018 when an ICE facility in Portland was besieged for 28 days. He notes, “We have a community that has fostered an environment of violence in Portland” (00:53). During this period, local law enforcement failed to protect the facility, forcing DHS to deploy federal and Department of Justice (DOJ) officers to secure the area.

Escalation of Violence

Fast forward to the present, Wolf describes a dramatic escalation in violence at the Mark Hatfield Federal Courthouse, where “95% of the violence has taken place” (02:35). He distinguishes between peaceful protests and violent anarchist activities, asserting, “These are violent individuals that are organized” (05:31). The intensity of these confrontations has necessitated increased federal intervention, including the deployment of Federal Protective Service (FPS) officers to safeguard the courthouse.

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Nature of Protests and Violent Incidents

Two Facets of Protests

Wolf elaborates on the dual nature of protests in Portland: “We see peaceful protesting” with several hundred participants engaging in speeches and advocacy (03:09). However, juxtaposed against this are nightly violent disruptions involving thousands of anarchists attempting to breach federal buildings. These actions include throwing Molotov cocktails, attacking officers with sledgehammers, and using powerful lasers to blind law enforcement personnel.

Impact on Law Enforcement

The severity of these attacks is underscored by the injuries sustained by officers. Wolf states, “For DHS, we've had over 247 different injuries to law enforcement officers” (08:13), highlighting the dangerous environment federal agents operate in daily. He recounts specific incidents, such as individuals lighting barbecues on fire and launching mortar-style fireworks at officers, intensifying the threat level beyond typical protest activities.

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Response of DHS and Federal Agencies

Federal Intervention Amidst Local Inaction

Chad Wolf criticizes the inaction of local and state law enforcement, emphasizing that DHS had to step in due to the lack of support from Portland’s mayor and governor. He recounts, “Their response was no, thank you, and please leave Portland” (12:16), which he argues would have resulted in the destruction of federal facilities had DHS withdrawn.

Authority and Legal Framework

Addressing misconceptions about DHS’s authority, Wolf clarifies that federal law allows DHS to protect federal properties and arrest individuals committing crimes, even if these acts occur off federal grounds. He analogizes this to preventing someone from burning the United States Capitol and then claiming immunity once they step across the street, asserting, “It would not work” (07:08).

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Political Rhetoric and the Push to Abolish ICE

Targeting Federal Law Enforcement

The discussion shifts to the political campaigns targeting ICE and broader law enforcement agencies. Wolf condemns remarks from political figures like Nancy Pelosi, who have derogatorily labeled DHS officers as “stormtroopers” (16:20). He defends the agency’s mission, stating, “These are civil law enforcement officers who get up every day, put on a badge, put on a uniform, protect their communities” (16:46).

The Campaign to Abolish ICE

Wolf addresses the push to abolish ICE, explaining that such efforts aim to dismantle critical components of DHS that handle immigration enforcement, transnational crime, and national security. He emphasizes the importance of these functions in protecting communities from various threats, countering the narrative that seeks to undermine law enforcement integrity.

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Border Security and Construction of the Wall

Progress on Border Wall Construction

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to border security, particularly the construction of the border wall. Chad Wolf highlights the administration’s achievements, noting, “We just eclipsed about 265 miles of the new border wall system under President Trump” (18:07). He contrasts the initial low-height barriers with the current high-tech, 30-foot walls equipped with ground sensors, lighting, and radar systems designed to effectively impede illegal crossings.

Technology and Resources

Wolf expresses concern over the technological disparities between federal and state resources. He acknowledges the superior technology employed by Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS) but attributes the lack of comparable federal equipment to congressional inaction: “We do not have an unlimited budget. So there are certain… we can always use new and better equipment” (26:50).

Future Plans

Looking ahead, Wolf outlines ambitious plans to extend the border wall system to 450-500 miles by the end of the year, replacing outdated fences with robust barriers. He emphasizes the strategic placement of these walls in high-need areas to maximize the effectiveness of federal patrols and prevent illegal crossings.

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Outlook and Conclusion

National Security and Public Safety

In concluding the discussion, Chad Wolf underscores DHS’s commitment to national security and public safety. He references Operation Legend, an initiative to surge federal resources to combat violent crime, and reiterates the department’s role in protecting federal properties nationwide. Wolf’s closing remarks reflect a steadfast dedication to maintaining order and safeguarding justice, despite political and logistical challenges.

Personal Background and Motivation

Wolf shares his personal journey, revealing that his dedication to DHS was sparked by the events of September 11, 2001. He explains, “So it was a formidable event in my life and really changed my outlook” (28:45). His commitment to the department’s mission is a driving force behind his leadership and strategic decisions.

Final Thoughts

The episode wraps up with a light-hearted exchange addressing unexpected personal challenges faced by Chad Wolf, humanizing the federal leader and reinforcing the collaborative spirit between DHS and national leaders.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Chad Wolf on Portland’s Violence:
  “For DHS, we've had over 247 different injuries to law enforcement officers. About over 100 officers have individually been injured.” (08:13)

• On Misconceptions About DHS Authority:
  “These are violent individuals that are organized. They have supply lines. This is an organized entity here that is doing this.” (05:31)

• Defending Law Enforcement Against Rhetoric:
  “To call them stormtroopers, to invoke that kind of imagery is just shameful.” (16:20)

• On Border Wall Progress:
  “We just eclipsed about 265 miles of the new border wall system under President Trump.” (18:07)

• Commitment to National Security:
  “DHS is going to be on the front lines protecting those [federal properties].” (27:10)

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Insights and Conclusions

This episode of The 47 Morning Update provides a thorough examination of the multifaceted challenges facing the Department of Homeland Security, particularly in the context of civil unrest and border security. Chad Wolf articulates the complexities of managing federal facilities amidst violent protests, the strategic advancements in border infrastructure, and the impact of political rhetoric on law enforcement efficacy. The conversation underscores the necessity of robust federal intervention in maintaining national security and public order, while also highlighting the ongoing tensions between federal authorities and local governance. For listeners seeking an in-depth understanding of DHS operations and the current socio-political landscape, this episode serves as an essential resource.

Transcript

[Ted Cruz]

A crisis at the border, a crisis within the borders, civil unrest all over the country. And we are lucky enough to have taken a little bit of time out of the day of the man who has to deal with all of it, the acting Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, Chad Wolfe. This is Verdict with Ted Cruz. Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz. I am joined, as always, by. By Senator ted Cruz. And, Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for taking the time out. I know you're very busy, but thank you.

[Chad Wolfe]

Certainly a pleasure. Thank you for having me.

[Ted Cruz]

So is there anything to talk about? I think there are a few things.

[Michael Knowles]

Probably the world's on fire.

[Ted Cruz]

The world is on fire. And, Mr. Secretary, you've got to deal with a lot of it. Let's begin all the way on the West Coast. In Portland, there has been violence, civil unrest, and it has fallen on you to deal with it.

[Chad Wolfe]

Absolutely. What we see in Portland, as I've talked about probably over the last several weeks, is very different than what we see anywhere else in the country. We have a community that has fostered an environment of violence in Portland. This goes back to 2018, where we had an ICE facility, a DHS facility set siege to for about 28 days. And for 28 days, the local law enforcement didn't do anything to help our employees. So there's a.

[Michael Knowles]

There's a history. Chad, if I remember right, the mayor, Ted Wheeler, who's also the commissioner of police, he announced at the time when the ICE facility was under assault that the police wouldn't protect it.

[Chad Wolfe]

That's correct. That's correct.

[Michael Knowles]

And what did that mean? So let's go back to. Because there's a history here that sets the stage. So they're attacking the ICE facility. Mayor says police, forget it. You don't get police protection. So what happened then?

[Chad Wolfe]

So it took about 28 days, and we had to send in federal law enforcement officers. We had to send in a contingent of DHS officers. But we also had some DOJ officers, some marshals and others that went in, provided egress, entry and exit from that facility to get our employees back and forth, make sure they're. That facility was protected. There were weapons in the facility just to make sure it was secure. And then we had those individuals.

[Michael Knowles]

Was there violence? That there was.

[Chad Wolfe]

There was Molotov cocktails thrown at the facility. It was damaged. It was vandalized. They did not get inside, luckily, but the outside was vandalized.

[Michael Knowles]

All right, so fast forward to now. What exactly is happening in Portland? I guess there's A federal courthouse and a federal building. Is that right? Are there two places in particular where the conflict is happening? Right.

[Chad Wolfe]

So we've got about five, five federal facilities in Portland. There is the Mark Hatfield Federal Courthouse, which is where 95% of the violence has taken place.

[Michael Knowles]

And that's a working courthouse. Like right now. There are cases going on in the courthouse today.

[Chad Wolfe]

There is a grand jury in the courthouse today.

[Ted Cruz]

And we are being told, though, that the violent protests, they're actually just peaceful demonstrations that are happening at this courthouse. What's the real story?

[Chad Wolfe]

Well, there's both. So what we see is we see peaceful protesting. So then we go all the way back to the George Floyd death, which is really when all this started. In Portland, we see very peaceful protests every day. So for 60 days we see peaceful protests. Those usually occur between 6 and 7 o'clock at night, and they run to about 11 o'clock at night. And then there's a small break.

[Michael Knowles]

And about how many people are we talking?

[Chad Wolfe]

Typically we see several hundred. Several hundred peaceful protests. There are speeches being made. ACLU is out there. There's a variety of different groups out there. That does not make the media.

[Michael Knowles]

You know, I remember a period during the whole Seattle Chaz Chud, I couldn't keep up with the new name.

[Ted Cruz]

We've been calling it the Soviet Union, but there are other names that have borrowed.

[Michael Knowles]

But during that whole thing in Seattle, I remember, in fact, I think I commented on Twitter that Portland was quite peaceful while Seattle had this autonomous zone. And it was like, wow, when Portland thinks you're doing a bad job in law enforcement, you've really taken a bad turn. And it seems after the Chaz Chop, whatever was disbanded, that seems to be about the time Portland got a lot worse.

[Chad Wolfe]

Yeah. What we saw over the course of June was progressively getting more and more violent. We started sending Federal Protective Service officers to that courthouse to provide some additional support.

[Michael Knowles]

Now, what is a Federal Protective Service officer? What does that mean?

[Chad Wolfe]

So FPS Federal Protective Service is a component of the Department of Homeland Security. They secure about 9,000, almost 9,000 federal facilities, mostly owned by GSA. These are federal facilities. So these are not.

[Michael Knowles]

These are law enforcement officers that are protecting federal buildings. Yeah.

[Chad Wolfe]

So it's courthouses, but it's also maybe your Social Security Administration is there. It's where federal benefits are exercised in any given city, state. They are protecting those buildings, and they largely do that with a contract force, but they also have federal officers. So in Portland, and I guess there's.

[Michael Knowles]

A long history of violence against federal buildings. Obviously, Ted Kaczynski blowing up the federal building in Oklahoma was horrific. And I mean, this is not a new threat.

[Chad Wolfe]

It's not a new thing. It's not a new thing at all. And in fact, under the last administration, Secretary Johnson, DHS secretary, deployed federal resources to federal facilities because of certain demonstrations in Baltimore after Freddie Gray's death. He deployed additional resources there because there was violence directed at federal facilities. So this is nothing new. We do this all the time at the department. It's only now getting certain attention.

[Ted Cruz]

You know, we've been told also, and I think you've drawn a good distinction here between the peaceful protesters and then these violent anarchists who show up at night. We've been told, though, this is a grassroots movement, a sort of spontaneous uprising. You think it's organized?

[Chad Wolfe]

Oh, absolutely. It's absolutely organized. So again, we come back. So for 60 nights in a row, we saw between midnight and 5am These are violent individuals, violent criminals, violent opportunists, violent anarchists.

[Michael Knowles]

And how many are we talking?

[Chad Wolfe]

Anywhere from 500 at the height to about 5,000. Wow. So these are 5,000 individuals that are outside of a courthouse. We had to put up temporary fencing. They took it down, they lit it on fire, and they barricaded our folks inside the courthouse. Very, very dangerous. So we reinforced the fencing. It did help. But you have violent individuals approaching that fence line every night. They stage in a park, a city park, two city parks across the street. They stage there. They use city streets to come to that facility, and then they will stay there for several hours while the city police, the state police did nothing.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, this brings up an important question, too, which is a lot of the people who are defending these anarchists are saying that the federal government has no right to go and arrest them if they leave the federal property and they go onto city property.

[Chad Wolfe]

So again, just inaccurate information. They just don't know what they're talking about. So 40 us, I can't believe that.

[Michael Knowles]

No, nobody in politics would ever say something if they didn't know what they were talking about.

[Chad Wolfe]

So, you know, the U.S. code Con, you know, passed by Congress, statute gives us the ability not only to protect our facilities, but to investigate and arrest individuals that we see that are damaging our facilities off property. So this idea that you can damage a federal facility and then step across the road and say, sorry, you can't touch me. It's very similar to if someone walked up to the United States Capitol, tried to burn the Capitol down, and step across the street and say, Sorry, you can't touch me. It's not how long it is.

[Michael Knowles]

You're saying that would work?

[Chad Wolfe]

It would not work.

[Ted Cruz]

No ideas anymore.

[Chad Wolfe]

It would not work. And that's what really we were up against for 60 days in Portland. So you have to hold individuals accountable. So dhs, along with the marshal service, started making arrest because state and local law enforcement refused to.

[Michael Knowles]

So how much violence are we talking about? Is this one guy taking a swing at somebody? I mean, I mean, what. Help people understand what. Actually, you see kind of images online. You see some fires and people pulling on fences. But what's really going on?

[Chad Wolfe]

I say initially, I would say the most, I would say least violent that you would see would be bricks being thrown at lawns enforcement officers.

[Ted Cruz]

That's the least violent.

[Chad Wolfe]

That's the least violent bricks. You see frozen water bottles, anything that's hard, hard canned food. You see being thrown at law enforcement officers as they come out and try to protect the facility. It then starts to ratchet up. We've seen Molotov cocktails. Officers have taken sledgehammers to the head. We see IEDs being thrown at them.

[Michael Knowles]

You're saying people are hitting police officers in the head with sledgehammers?

[Chad Wolfe]

Correct.

[Michael Knowles]

How many officers have been injured during the course of Portland?

[Chad Wolfe]

For DHS, we've had over 247 different injuries to law enforcement officers. About over 100.

[Michael Knowles]

That's just Portland.

[Chad Wolfe]

That's just Portland.

[Michael Knowles]

Holy crap.

[Chad Wolfe]

That's just Portland. 247 different injuries to law enforcement officers. About over 100 officers have individually been injured.

[Ted Cruz]

And Portland, by the way, is not the only site of this violence. We've been seeing it in other cities as well.

[Chad Wolfe]

We see a little different violence in different cities. You know, whether it's Chicago, Kansas City, Albuquerque, even Seattle. That's more street crime. There is some organized violence as well. But Portland is very different than any other city we've seen. As I indicated, thousands of folks every night for 60 days come to a fence line around a federal courthouse and want to burn it down. There's graffiti along the way.

[Michael Knowles]

Now, what are they doing with lasers? I mean, that's harmless, right? That's just a pointer, like pointing at someone?

[Chad Wolfe]

No, not at all. There's some pretty powerful lasers they're using. So as the law enforcement officers come out of the building to protect it, they will shine the green lasers in their eyes. And unfortunately, we have about three officers that are going to have some probably permanent damage.

[Michael Knowles]

When you say permanent damage, they're facing partial or total Blindness.

[Chad Wolfe]

We're waiting for medical to come back, but that's what we're hearing at the moment. Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, so it's not. I mean, I can see people thinking, oh, you know, I play with a pointer at home and my cat chases it.

[Ted Cruz]

That's not it.

[Michael Knowles]

They are aiming real and powerful lasers at the eyeballs of officers. And you've got three who are seriously injured.

[Chad Wolfe]

We do. So we've taken corrective measures. We've given them some eyewear that protects against that. But this is a new tactic from these individuals that we have first seen here in Portland.

[Michael Knowles]

And I guess one of the challenges is a lot of these guys are dressed in all black. They're wearing goggles or wearing a mask. And so if you have someone throw a brick and it hits an officer and he's bleeding, you have someone point a laser and it blinds an officer. You can't always tell who did it. I mean, they're all dressed the same. I mean, is that part of what they're trying to do?

[Chad Wolfe]

Absolutely. It's very difficult. And they do that on purpose. And we see tactics that they use that are very similar to law enforcement. They try to obscure their movements. They do a number of different things that make it difficult for law enforcement to engage with them. Now we have our own tactics. We are able to identify certain individuals that are lighting fires, throwing. We've seen barbecues being tossed over the fence that are on fire.

[Michael Knowles]

Like a barbecue grill?

[Chad Wolfe]

Yeah, like a Weber grill. Yeah. Tossed over.

[Michael Knowles]

Holy crap. Do they at least put burgers and hot dogs in?

[Ted Cruz]

Something tells me they're not that courteous.

[Chad Wolfe]

We see mortar style commercial grade tofu.

[Michael Knowles]

They wouldn't be burgers. I got to say, in. In Texas, those are fighting words. If you throw a barbecue with nothing but tofu and veggie burgers, it's just rude. It's just rude. That's the only thing commercial grade fireworks.

[Chad Wolfe]

Are being thrown in. And so as those explode several inches from officers, it can become very, very dangerous. They get burnt, they get injured.

[Michael Knowles]

This is not somebody lighting a black.

[Chad Wolfe]

Cat, like a mortar style firework that gets shot from across the street, inside the park into the facility.

[Ted Cruz]

Mr. Secretary, the scene that you are describing, and I think the scene that a lot of us have seen on television, is one that we would expect in a foreign country in the Middle east or say in a war zone. This is not the sort of thing we would expect within the borders of the United States.

[Chad Wolfe]

Absolutely, absolutely. I've been saying that for almost over a month. Now that the violence that we see in Portland, people have to understand it's not a few protesters who are getting angry and deciding to bang on a fence. These are violent individuals that are organized. They have supply lines. This is an organized entity here that is doing this. And unfortunately, despite our request, we have state and local law enforcement, up until recently, for 60 days, refused to engage these folks.

[Michael Knowles]

So are the cops behaving differently now? Are they? Have politicians let them actually do their job?

[Chad Wolfe]

They have. So at the middle of July, I want to say I placed phone calls to the mayor of Portland as well as to the governor of Oregon, and I basically put any resource at the department at their hands for them as they addressed the violence. They had the full resources of the department. Their response was no, thank you, and please leave Portland, which, of course, we didn't do.

[Michael Knowles]

And if you'd left Portland, what would have happened?

[Chad Wolfe]

The facility would have burned. The courthouse would have burned.

[Michael Knowles]

So you're saying what the mayor and governor were saying is just abandon the federal courthouse and let the mob burn the courthouse to the ground.

[Chad Wolfe]

That was their request of me.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, this ties into the same strategy we've heard from the same people on the international front, which is don't enforce our border with Mexico. Allow the border to be totally open, allow people to come in. And DHS has been a particular object of those criticisms.

[Michael Knowles]

What is dhs? It's a pretty new agency what all falls within the umbrella of DHS.

[Chad Wolfe]

So we have about 240,000 employees across the enterprise.

[Michael Knowles]

Are y'all the biggest civilian agency? So other than dod, I believe the.

[Chad Wolfe]

Veterans Administration's a little bit bigger.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh, interesting.

[Chad Wolfe]

Okay. Just from a pure size standpoint. So within the department, we do everything from aviation security. So the commercial checkpoint security that you see as you get on commercial aircraft, we do that.

[Michael Knowles]

Tsa.

[Chad Wolfe]

Tsa.

[Michael Knowles]

So TSA reports to you?

[Chad Wolfe]

Tsa, Customs and Border Protection. So when we talk about border security, they're certainly along that border ice.

[Michael Knowles]

You know, when they do the groping at the stands, it'd be really good if they could, like, just do the lower back a little more.

[Ted Cruz]

Is that an official request?

[Michael Knowles]

I mean, I'm like, look, if you're gonna get it, I got a sore musc down there.

[Chad Wolfe]

Well, they gotta. They have to continue to do their job.

[Michael Knowles]

I say thank you to them every time.

[Ted Cruz]

I'm diplomatic. Answer.

[Chad Wolfe]

As long as we don't have any incidents in the skies, I'm happy. Customs and Border Protection, isc, Immigration Customs Enforcement is also inside the department. Uscis which.

[Michael Knowles]

So what's the difference between Customs and Border Protection and ice?

[Chad Wolfe]

Sure. Cbp, Customs and Border, mainly protecting our border, Southwest border, northern border, border.

[Michael Knowles]

So those are the guys in green, they're in the Rio Grande?

[Chad Wolfe]

Absolutely. They're not only the men and women in green, but they're also in blue. So as you come to a port of entry and you're legally coming to the US you're going to have to go through several officers and go through a process so they do not only legal but illegal entry into the U.S.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, so that's CBP and then ICE is what?

[Chad Wolfe]

ICE is immigration and Customs Enforcement. So these are the individuals we have both ice ero, which is our removal operations. So these are individuals that will go into communities, identify criminals, identify other individuals that have no legal right to be in the US and remove them. We also have Homeland Security investigators, Ms. 13 gang members.

[Michael Knowles]

You've got ICE officers going in, arresting them. And some of these guys can be pretty violent.

[Chad Wolfe]

Very, very dangerous. Very dangerous. The large majority of, I would say, targets that we get are actually from individual jails and courthouses. So it's individuals that are probably have gotten picked up on another criminal charge. Come to find out they're illegally here in the US we would then go in, you know, ascertain them, and then start removing.

[Ted Cruz]

There are now widespread calls among one political party to abolish that entire enforcement agency.

[Chad Wolfe]

So it's not just the removal operations. We have Homeland Security Investigations, which does transnational criminal organizations, drug trafficking. They do a variety of national security missions that are part of ice. So part of what they want to abolish are criminal investigators protecting communities from a variety of threats.

[Michael Knowles]

So I think it's an interesting arc of development because a couple of years ago, the Democrats seized upon abolish ice. I mean, it started with aoc. It started off with a few kind of fringe characters, and then it expanded. And some of what you guys faced in Portland with Ted Wheeler refusing to protect the ICE facilities was a manifestation back then that they were saying, get rid of ice that's now transmogrified into abolish all police. That it's not just ice, but it's anyone with a badge and a gun is apparently now the bad guy. So Nancy Pelosi has called your officers Stormtroopers.

[Chad Wolfe]

Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

What do you make of that?

[Chad Wolfe]

Well, she's not only called them storm troopers, I heard them being referred to as the Gestapo or thugs as well. Completely irresponsible comments. I've called on each of those Members of Congress that have said those terms to apologize to the men and women of dhs. These are civil law enforcement officers get up every day, put on a badge, put on a uniform, protect their communities.

[Michael Knowles]

So these are cops, they're federal cops, but they're law enforcement officers protecting us.

[Chad Wolfe]

Absolutely. They go to training, they have procedures that they follow, they have authorities that they follow. And to call them stormtroopers, to invoke that kind of imagery is just shameful.

[Michael Knowles]

And for the record, is an arrest a kidnapping, because that's the language they're saying is, apparently you're now kidnappers.

[Chad Wolfe]

Yeah. So it's, again, I think it's individuals that don't understand what our mission is. So there in Portland, because you did not have state or you didn't have local law enforcement making arrests. So night after night after night, hundreds of individuals are committing criminal acts with no consequence. And DHS said, well, we can't have that. That's not how law enforcement works. So we have the ability to go out and arrest individuals. And we started doing that within a two to three block radius of the courthouse. And then that's when, you know, a number of individuals said, well, how can you do that? How can you arrest individuals? Well, they are committing criminal acts. That's how you arrest individuals.

[Ted Cruz]

You're making this point about Nancy Pelosi and a lot of other Democrats in the House. It's an election year. They're heightening up the rhetoric. They're going after abolish ice, abolish law enforcement. But there's another very hot political issue that they're also talking about, which is immigration, illegal immigration at the border. This was a central plank when President Trump was running for office. What's the situation down there on the border wall, on enforcement, on making sure our country's secure?

[Michael Knowles]

Is there a wall?

[Chad Wolfe]

Absolutely, absolutely. We just eclipsed about 265 miles of the new border wall system under President Trump.

[Michael Knowles]

So there was a wall to begin with. We had several hundred walls, several hundred miles of wall initially, and we built about 200 more.

[Chad Wolfe]

Is that right? I would say initially, as we came in, we had different forms of fencing, some of it about 6ft tall, some of it maybe up to 8ft tall, maybe easily scalable, easily defeated. No impedance and denial there. Any type of barrier. What you want for our Border patrol, the men and women in green on the border, they want something that's going to stop an individual or at least to slow them down. So that's the impedance and denial aspect. Of coming into the country illegally. The bigger the barrier, the more effective the barrier, the easier it is for them to do their job. What we saw with six foot high wall, you could scale it, you could be over disappear. Very difficult for border patrol to do their job. The new border wall system that we're building in many cases is 30ft high. It has ground sensors, it has lighting, it has radar. It has a number of things that if you can defeat it, very difficult to. If you can defeat it, you have border patrol waiting on you as you get to the other side of that border wall system.

[Michael Knowles]

All right, so I got to tell a story, Michael. I spent a lot of time with CBP in Texas. They're incredible men and women, and several years ago I joined them down in Rio grande valley for their midnight muster and then went out on midnight patrol with it, which is very cool. And so we're going out and they arrested a number of people. And so they go into this one stash house that's, oh, probably 200 yards in from the river, and they go in and kick the door down. And there are a bunch of people there that they're apprehending. And there's some pretty rough looking characters coming out of this stash house, including one guy I remember who was big, he was probably 260, 280 pounds, was wearing sort of a raggedy undershirt covered with tats. I mean, tats everywhere. And the agents kept saying, senator, Senator, hey, come over here, senator, come look at this. Senator. No, I'll be back here.

[Ted Cruz]

Thanks.

[Michael Knowles]

And I'm like, ick, stay on the editor's stay. Just call me Bob.

[Ted Cruz]

Guys like what that is, you know, I think that's probably typical, though. We're dealing with, to use the president's term, tough hombres down here. And I don't know to hear the rhetoric coming from the left right now. It's as though these are the most wonderful people in the world and the villains are the law enforcement officers who are trying to arrest them.

[Chad Wolfe]

It's disgraceful, really. Again, we have. DHS is the largest law enforcement agency in the country. We have over 100,000 law enforcement officers in the department doing their job every day on the border. Every day they're building that wall. They're stopping individuals from crossing into the country illegally. And I would say in a pandemic environment, stopping individuals crossing into the country illegally takes on a more important mission. We're not just stopping immigration violators, we're stopping individuals that Perhaps could have COVID 19 could be coming into the US and infecting American citizens.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, we're told that we're not allowed to leave our homes in many cases, but it's perfectly fine to have foreign nationals who obviously are not being tested across that border illegally. But actually, Senator, you, you raised this question for me because your job is to make the laws, your job is to enforce the laws, and there are regulations that you use as well.

[Michael Knowles]

My job is to make fun of.

[Ted Cruz]

The laws, and my job is entirely to make fun of the laws. But it occurs to me, if we're now four years into an administration, we were told, big, beautiful wall. We know that people want to build the wall. And yet I think a lot of people listening will say, only 200 or 250 miles of wall. What's the holdup been? It strikes me there are other people who make the laws as well, outside of our perhaps constitutional system.

[Chad Wolfe]

Yeah. So we are not only stymied by congressional inaction. You know, the president's been very clear about a border wall system. We've had to find that funding internally to the administration over the last several years as Congress. Certain members of Congress, I would say, are not supportive of that. But we also have courts and we have lawsuits that we have to deal with. But again, as far as building the border wall system, we're going to reach 300 miles by the end of August. We'll be.

[Michael Knowles]

So we're here in early August. They built 200 miles of new wall. We've got another 100 miles coming into August, month or so.

[Chad Wolfe]

Right.

[Michael Knowles]

And I think is the goal by the end of the year, 450 miles.

[Chad Wolfe]

450 to 500. Right, right.

[Michael Knowles]

And that's of new wall or replacing previous barriers.

[Chad Wolfe]

So it's a great, you know, this is what the other side, you know, our opponents usually say is you're not actually building any new wall. So in many cases we are tearing down a five to six foot fence and putting up a 30 foot wall. And in any case, that is a new wall. It's very much like if you were to.

[Michael Knowles]

I got to tell you another story of this just on the five to six foot fence. Back in 2016 presidential race, we're down in Arizona on the border and you know, I've got a whole bevy of, of reporters following me and we're doing something right on the border wall and it's got this little sort of vehicle barrier.

[Chad Wolfe]

Normandy barriers.

[Michael Knowles]

The Normandy barriers. Yeah, that's exactly. It looks like the sort of crisscross Metal planks. And the reporters are there and we got a bunch of sheriffs and folks who are down there with us and a bunch of the reporters, they want to get a better camera shot so they climb over the barrier to shoot north. And I'm like, okay, so you just crossed into Mexico illegally and that's how little the barrier is, is you just hop over the damn thing. Okay, I got a better shot here. Maybe we need something more substantial. Given that you're like currently an illegal immigrant in the country of Mexico, they.

[Ted Cruz]

Unwittingly, I think, proved your point on the border. And it's the point we're all making. And yet you're being stymied left and right on building that wall.

[Chad Wolfe]

But again, we have found ways to do that. We have enough funding, we're in a good place, we're in a good glide path. So again, as the senator mentioned, about 450 to 500 miles by the end of this calendar year. And that's what the operators want. They want that effective border wall system. It's not everywhere on the border. We can't put it everywhere, but we can put it in the places that need it most so that patrol so officers can patrol other hard hit areas.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, even beyond the operators, I think that's what the American people want. I think they've made that point time and again.

[Michael Knowles]

Let me make a point also that's, that's interesting and would surprise you. The guys working for Chad, the CBP guys on the border, they need a lot more technology.

[Chad Wolfe]

Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

So, so I've been, I've been out with them on their boats on the river. I've been up in, in their helicopters, which are old. Some of the helicopters are old Hueys, like, like, you know, out of, out of, like watching, you know, MASH growing up, which by the way, they keep the doors open on the side and you know, they strap you in. And I think the helicopter pilots enjoy doing turns where you're going forward and you're looking at this one little round disc that is holding your body and if it comes loose, you're falling 200ft down into the ground and you're trying to like. Yeah, this doesn't bother me at all. I am urinating my pants right now. But no, I'm not, not going back there.

[Chad Wolfe]

Senator.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, they do enjoy.

[Chad Wolfe]

I would say they do that with the acting secretary as well.

[Michael Knowles]

I have no doubt. But what's interesting. So Texas, dps, Department of Public Safety. I've been up Texas has, for example, it's an $8 million plane. It's an amazing plane that I've been up in, and it flies along the border, and it has heat imagery where they can look like a mile or two away on the other side of the border. And you'll see. And we'd look at the screen and be like. They'd be like, all right, there's the coyote there. You can see him hiding in the brush, and you can see four or five people that he's getting ready to. To send across. And what Texas DPS will do is call CBP and say, all right, there are five guys right here. They're preparing to cross. And you can see the CBP vans, like, pulling up on the other side, waiting to apprehend them when they come. The amazing thing, though, is the state has better technology than the feds, which is messed up. Y'all should have adequate technology. And it's not your fault. It's Congress's fault. We haven't given it, but it's kind of startling. You don't expect the state equipment to be better than the federal equipment.

[Chad Wolfe]

Well, some of our best partners are obviously Texas dps, as well as in Arizona and other places. So we rely on our partners to do our job. But as you indicated, we do not have an unlimited budget. So there are certain. We have a number of air assets as well that we send up along that border to patrol that. But we can always use new and better equipment.

[Ted Cruz]

Mr. Secretary, we want to be respectful of your time, but before we go, I think a lot of Americans looking around don't feel great about how things are going. You know, they see buildings on fire. They see this unrest, especially in Portland, they see problems at the border. What's the outlook? Give it to us straight. You know, we don't want false hope. But how are things looking as we now move toward the end of the year?

[Chad Wolfe]

Well, I would say what we've seen over the past month and we've talked a little bit about here, when we talk about defund the police or you start attacking law enforcement, I think what we are seeing around the country is the result of that. What you have are criminals at their very heart. They are violent opportunists, and they see an opportunity to exploit their street, their corner of the world, because they know the police are under a microscope. And so I think that's very dangerous. What the president. What the administration's been very upfront about is we're not going to let this continue. So whether it's through Operation Legend, which is surging federal resources in to deal with some of this violent crime. We're going to continue to surge federal resources in. We're going to continue to protect federal property. We see it almost, you know, we get threat and intelligence every weekend. Certain federal properties around the country are being targeted by these groups. We surge resources into those communities to make sure that those properties are protected. Particularly when we talk about a courthouse, a seat of justice in a city has to be protected. That's what this country is about. And DHS is going to be on the front lines protecting those.

[Michael Knowles]

All right, totally different question to wrap up. How do you get to be Secretary of Homeland Security? Like, you're a cabinet member, you're one of the top cops in the country. Like what, you know, when you were. When you were a kid, is this what you dreamed of doing? How did you get here?

[Chad Wolfe]

Yeah, it's a little different. I actually dreamed of joining the military, and for whatever reason, didn't happen. I grew up in Texas, went to school in Dallas, had the opportunity to come to D.C. and shortly after 911 joined DHS. 911 for me, I was on Capitol Hill, rushed out of the buildings. It was a significant factor in my life.

[Ted Cruz]

So mine was basically right when DHS was formed.

[Chad Wolfe]

Yeah, this is back in 2001, 2002. So it was a formidable event in my life and really changed my outlook. So I jumped in, started serving at dhs, took a break during the Obama administration and then came back in and held a variety of different positions here in the department. I think the thing that, you know, a lot of us here in the department, we believe in this mission. We believe in what the department does and how it was created after 9 11. It's counterterrorism mission, but it has a number of other missions, some of which we talked about that I think the vast majority of Americans just don't know about Federal Protective Service, a lot of our immigration enforcement, and a lot of other things that we are doing here. So it's a big department. 240,000 folks, 22 different agencies that came in.

[Michael Knowles]

So what do you do for fun?

[Chad Wolfe]

Like, I work, but, you know, when I can, I try to run a little bit and bike a little bit.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, those hobbies notwithstanding, I think you're probably working a lot more these days.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, and I do need to clarify and just say, Chad, thank you for being here. So as we are here, your basement is flooding.

[Chad Wolfe]

It is.

[Michael Knowles]

So there's a tropical storm. It's raining like crazy. You're in D.C. your basement's flooding, and your wife has called you saying, hey, our basement's flooding, and you said, I gotta do a podcast. Now I'm just gonna say I'm sorry. I know you're sleeping on the couch tonight. It's my fault. Blame it on me. But you're a great American, and please get home quickly and help your wife. Or.

[Chad Wolfe]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

[Michael Knowles]

Or it won't be the couch, it'll be the dog house.

[Chad Wolfe]

It's not gonna be good.

[Ted Cruz]

We need to get you back to the basement and more importantly, to the mission. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Thank you so much for being here, Senator. I'll see you next time. This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

[Unknown]

This episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz is being brought to you by Jobs, Freedom, and Security pac, a political action committee dedicated to supporting conservative causes, organizations, and candidates across the country. In 2022, jobs, freedom and Security PAC plans to donate to conservative candidates running for Congress and help the Republican Party across nation.