← The 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson
The 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson
Cruz vs Tucker Debate: On Israel & Iran- Trump is Right, Tucker is Wrong
00:35:15
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- [00:00]
Podcast Host
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:04]
Richard Karn
Hi, I'm Richard Karn and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new pocket hose Copperhead with Pocket Pivot is here and it's a total game changer. Old fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's pocket pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust proof anti burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus your super light and ultra durable pocket hose Copperhead is backed with a 10 year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what an exciting radio exclusive offer just for you for a limited time. You can get a free pocket pivot and their 10 pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size Copperhead hose. Just text water to 64,000. That's water to to 64,000 for your two free gifts with purchase w a t e r to 64,000 by texting 64,000 you agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket host. Message and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply.
- [01:03]
Ted Cruz
Available at pockethose.com Terms the Medal of.
- [01:05]
J.R. Martinez
Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, the unexpected, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves.
- [01:18]
Podcast Host
This medal is for the men who.
- [01:20]
Ted Cruz
Went down that day on Medal of.
- [01:22]
J.R. Martinez
Honor Stories of Courage. You'll hear about these heroes and what their stories tell us about the nature of bravery. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
- [01:36]
Ben Ferguson
Welcome. It is Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you. It's so nice to have you with us. Many of you listening to this on radio around the country and we are thrilled to have you with us as well. Don't forget we do this show as a podcast, so make sure you hit that subscrib auto download button if you download Vertic with Tech Cruise. We do it three days a week and obviously this radio show as well. Senator, we've got a lot to talk about in the show, but let's just start with the big thing everybody's wanting to hear about and that is your sit down interview in your office with Tucker Carlson.
- [02:09]
Ted Cruz
Well, this week I sat down with Tucker Carlson. We did a two hour interview in my office and I Got to tell you, it was a bloodbath. The two of us, frankly, beat the living daylights out of each other for two hours straight. It was. There were fireworks. I'll tell you online, there have been over 100 million views on clips from this show. It was vigorous. It was contested. It was. Look, it laid out two very different views on foreign policy, and it's what we're going to talk about today.
- [02:43]
Ben Ferguson
Yeah, it really is incredible on the foreign policy front. So let's just start with the basic question that I think so many people have been asking me when they saw the snippets of this interview. And I would actually encourage people to watch the entire interview, not just the little things that popped on social media, but number one, why did you decide to do this interview with him? And did you think it was gonna be like this?
- [03:07]
Ted Cruz
Well, let me start with the second part first. Yes, I knew exactly what it was gonna be. I knew that Tucker, when he asked for the interview, I knew that he was doing it to come after me. I knew he was going to come in and just be swinging as hard as he could. And I went in. I wasn't looking to pick a fight. And in fact, we started the interview with my pointing out. I said, tucker, listen, you and I, we agree on about 80% of issues. We agree across the board. And I said, tucker, you have been fantastic on a ton of issues. You've been fantastic on securing the border. That is a deep passion of mine. We've got to secure the border. And when Joe Biden and the Democrats had opened borders, you were ferocious in fighting for that, which I have been fighting alongside that with all my might. I will say, during COVID During the COVID lockdowns, Tucker was phenomenal. In fact, in the middle of the COVID lockdowns, I called Tucker back when he had a show on Fox, and I told him, I said, tucker, your evening monologues are the single best thing on television. I listen to them. I consume them like crack every night because they are so good. Because he was speaking out. He was speaking out powerfully against the insanity of shutting down our country, against the insanity of shutting down small businesses, against the insanity of shutting down churches, against the insanity of shutting down schools. And over 10 million kids did not go to in person school for over a year. And by the way, the data all show the learning loss to kids from that idiotic social experiment is going to be with them their entire Life. I think 10, 20, 30, 40 years from now, we're going to look back and say, what idiocy prompted this country to shut down schools and hurt so many kids? So on all of those issues, on free speech, on the Second Amendment, Tucker's been fantastic. And we are on exactly the same page on all of those issues. Now, I did acknowledge there are issues on which we disagree. I knew that Tucker wanted the interview because he wanted to come after me. And I knew that it was going to be particularly spicy, a lot of fireworks, because Tucker, in the last week has gotten really crosswise with President Trump. Tucker has blasted the president and said that the president was complicit in Israel's war. He said that the president's actions were not consistent with America first. And so I knew that Tucker was going to be hot and that I was going to be the target to take his ire out. But I did the interview because, listen, although Tucker is right on a whole lot of issues on foreign policy, I think he's gone really off the rails. He has gotten to a place of hardcore isolationism that I think is really dangerous. It's not good for America. I disagree with it. He does not want America to support Israel. He does not want America to do anything to stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon. And he is vocally and vigorously disagreeing with President Trump. And I thought it was important for me to do this interview to explain what President Trump is doing and to defend the president, to stand with President Trump. And I got to tell you, the entire theme of my interview was very simple. Donald Trump is right and Tucker, on Iran and Israel, you're wrong. And that was the whole point of the interview that came across at great length. Now, we did the interview on Tuesday, and then Tucker released it on Wednesday, but before Wednesday, he released a little snippet. And in two hours, Look, I'm going to give Tucker some credit. He had a little gotcha moment. So two hours of back and forth and back and forth and back and forth, and he decided to play a little gotcha moment. So in the course of talking about Iran, he asks me, he says, well, what's the population of Iran? And I thought about it for a second and realized I didn't actually know the exact population of Iran. And so I just said, I don't know. And he did the sort of classic Tucker, what? How can you not know that? And, I mean, he was, you know, vibrating and looking as if I had, you know, admitted to, I don't know, committing treason or something. And I just said, look, I don't memorize population tables. And he comes in with great joy and says, And I asked him, I said, what's the population of Iran? He says, 92 million. Actually, according to the Google searches afterwards, it's 89 million. So he was off 3 million, which I think is funny, because I assume he Google searched it right before the interview so he could do his little gotcha. And I'll confess, this may not be terribly credible, but the truth of the matter is in my head, what I was going to say, if I was guessing, was 90 million. So I was actually felt pretty good. I'm like, huh, all right, pretty damn close. But I said, look, what difference does it make if it's 90 million or 80 million or 100 million? And the reason I didn't want to posit a guess is because stupid and unfair interviews, you play gotchas on this, and I'll say things like population numbers. There are all sorts of countries across the globe that have sort of really surprising populations, that they can have populations that are either significantly bigger than you would think or significantly smaller than you would think. And at the end of the day, what I was talking about, which is the Ayatollah, a theocratic, radical lunatic who chants death to America and is trying to develop a nuclear weapon, the threat of that is not remotely different whether Iran has a population of 80 million, 90 million, or 100 million. So it was an irrelevant gotcha. But that little clip, what Tucker did is he released it a day before the whole interview. So he picked out of two hours, he thought that was the best 60 seconds, because he did get me to say the words, I don't know. And he felt very gleeful on that, I gotta say, the rest of the interview as it played out, there's a reason he wanted to start with that clip. And that clip went viral, and that's fine. But there's a reason he wanted to start with that clip, because the rest of the interview, Tucker's positions on Israel were very clear. He didn't want to stand with Israel. He was, and we're going to lay this out in the course of the show, deeply opposed to Israel, and he was deeply opposed to President Trump's policy. And in fact, he had been in writing and vocally attacking President Trump, and he didn't want to talk about that in terms of putting it out, the results of the interview. But that's why I did the interview.
- [09:28]
Ben Ferguson
So I've done interviews that have been pretty snarky. I worked at CNN for a long time as a conservative commentator. Are you glad you did the Inter. Because I always got that question. It's the same one I know a lot of people want to ask you.
- [09:40]
Ted Cruz
Absolutely, 1,000%, yes. Look, could the interview have been much better if Tucker had wanted to sit down and have a reasonable, thoughtful conversation? Let me speak. Let him speak. Us go back and forth and lay out different visions of foreign policy? That would have been a much, much better interview. But Tucker didn't want to do that. When he doesn't like what you're saying, he interrupts, he gets snarky, he insults you. And you're going to hear all that because that's what he did. But that's fine. I mean, he decided he wanted this interview to be the two of us screaming at each other. So that's what it ended up being. But I'm very glad because it was important to lay out the contrast. Donald Trump is right and Tucker Carlson is wrong on Israel and Iran. And I wanted to make that absolutely clear.
- [10:28]
Ben Ferguson
One of the big differences between the two of you was on what success looks like, especially when it comes to Israel taking out top Iranian military leadership.
- [10:38]
Ted Cruz
Well, that's exactly right. Israel right now is taking out the senior Iranian military leadership. And this is a regime. When the Ayatollah chants death to America, I believe him. When he chants death to Israel, I believe him. When he calls Israel the little Satan in America, the great Satan, I believe that he believes that. And so the Ayatollah's efforts to develop nuclear weapons, they are designed for one very specific purpose, which is to be able to attack Israel and America. And let me point out, by the way, there is a reason the Ayatollah has an ICBM program. ICBM stands for Intercontinental Ballistic Missile. You do not need an ICBM to attack Israel. Right now, Iran is pounding Israel with ballistic missiles, but Israel is relatively close to Iran. Iran wants an ICBM for one purpose and one purpose only, to be able to carry a nuclear warhead to the United States of America. And so that is the threat we are facing. And Israel is doing an enormous favor to America by taking out Iran's nuclear capability. Here. Give a listen to Tucker and me discussing exactly this point. You want to ask how does supporting Israel benefit us? Right now, this tiny little country, the size of the state of New Jersey is fighting our enemies for us and taking out their top military leadership and trying to take out their nuclear capacity. That makes America much safer.
- [12:06]
Ben Ferguson
By the way, you're absolutely right. I mean, Israel is taking out top Iranian military leadership. And yes, Israel is fighting our enemies right now, for us and not just America, but many other countries around the world.
- [12:18]
Ted Cruz
Well, and it benefits America, Understand these nuclear weapons are being developed so they can attack America. And it's not American soldiers who are taking out these nuclear facilities. It is Israeli commandos who are doing so. That's something we should be grateful for. But Tucker Carlson has been vigorously criticizing President Trump for standing with Israel on this. And here's another segment with Tucker and me discussing this point that they're willing to spend money to do that.
- [12:48]
Podcast Host
Opposed to that. It's awful. I am against killing anybody, actually, and especially foreign government. I'm asking about your allegation and the prime minister of Israel's allegation, that is, that Iran is trying to murder.
- [13:04]
Ted Cruz
Killing terrorists is a good thing. Killing people who are trying to murder Americans is a good thing, because if you're America first, you want to protect America. And so taking out, killing Osama bin Laden was a fantastic.
- [13:16]
Podcast Host
But you don't really believe that they're trying to murder Trump or.
- [13:18]
Ted Cruz
Yes, I do. Yes, I do.
- [13:20]
Podcast Host
Why aren't you.
- [13:21]
Ben Ferguson
Senator, you said earlier in the interview with him at the beginning and on this show that you and Tucker agree on about 80% of the issues, like hardcore lockstep. But this one here is maybe the most insane point where Tucker's like, hey, I don't want to kill anybody around the world, no matter what. I'm like, hold on. If you had a chance to take out Hitler, you wouldn't have done it. Are you kidding me?
- [13:42]
Ted Cruz
Well, this is unfortunately, a point that, frankly, you see from a lot of people on the far left, you see from the sort of Jimmy Carters of the world and even Barack Obama's, the kind of peaceniks that say, man, all war is bad. Just, just, you know, killing is bad. I'm just opposed to killing. And I get that that sounds good in a college faculty lounge. But as I asked him in the course of it, I'm like, do you think it's bad that we killed Osama bin Laden? Do you think it's bad that Hitler's dead? Do you think it's bad that we killed General Soleimani? Do you think it's bad that. And let's be clear that President Trump killed General Soleimani? I asked him that. He wouldn't answer that. He wouldn't answer if it was good or bad that we killed Osama bin Laden? The idea that we should never kill anybody is an incredibly naive and unrealistic position. Look, I think we should avoid unnecessary wars. I think we should be very reluctant to put American servicemen and women in harm's way. But when you have terrorists killing Osama Bin Laden was a great day for America and a great day for the world because Osama Bin Laden murdered thousands of Americans and waged war against America. And anyone who is actually focused on America first and defending this nation understands that there are dangerous people that are trying to kill Americans and, and it's the job of the commander in chief to keep them safe. Now, I will say in a two hour interview, one of the things that was striking is 36 minutes of the interview was Tucker attacking me for supporting Israel. And in particular he was obsessed with aipac. AIPAC is the America Israel Political Action Committee. And he was going on and on and on about how AIPAC should have to register under fara, the law that requires that organizations that are lobbying on behalf of foreign governments have to register. Now, AIPAC is not lobbying on behalf of a foreign government. AIPAC consists of Americans. It is Americans who are standing up. Now there are Americans who want a strong US Israel relationship, but they are not a lobbyist for the nation of Israel. And all told, he asked 28 questions on AIPAC. 28 questions. He asked 35 questions on why I was supporting Israel. And finally it led to this moment which was quite a bit of fireworks here. Give a listen. By the way, Tucker, it's a very weird thing, the obsession with Israel when we're talking about foreign countries.
- [16:21]
Podcast Host
It's hardly an obsession.
- [16:22]
Ted Cruz
You're not talking about Chinese, you're not talking about Japanese, you're not talking about the Brits, you're not talking about the French. The question, what about the Jews? What about the Jews?
- [16:29]
Podcast Host
Anti Semite. Now, Senator, you're asking the questions, you're.
- [16:33]
Ted Cruz
Asking, why are the Jews controlling our foreign policy? That's what you just asked.
- [16:37]
Podcast Host
Hardly saying that. And I have.
- [16:39]
Ted Cruz
That is exactly what you just said.
- [16:41]
Ben Ferguson
It is, by the way. Exactly. He was saying over and over again, as you mentioned for so long and again, the demonization of Americans and many of them, they're Jewish, that advocate for Israel in America and saying they should be foreign lobbyists organization. Look, I've spoken at one of their events before. I'm sure you've spoken at countless events for them before. The idea that there's some foreign agency is absurd.
- [17:04]
Ted Cruz
Yeah, and he also had a whole line of inquiry, isn't it horrible that Israel spies on America? And my response was every one of our allies spies on America. We spy on every one of our allies. That's real politik. That's the world we live in. And he could not acknowledge that point. He said, no, no, but Israel does it. It's terrible that Israel does it. And it was bizarrely focused on, okay, look, the Brits spy on us, the Canadians spy on us, the French spy on us, everybody spies on us, and we spy on everybody. Welcome to reality. Because conservatives are not simple and naive. And yet the criticism that is directed at Israel, sadly, is unique and I think really unfortunate. You know, in the book of Genesis, God makes a promise to your offspring. I promise this land. Now, that promise is the foundation of Israel. A land the Jewish people have returned to after centuries of exile and bondage and even the horrors of the Holocaust. But that promise is still under threat, especially after October 7th. Now, Israel's safety today depends on the very brave men and women of the idf, the Israeli Defense Forces. Every citizen is required to serve. Your gift of $45 will help provide aid to soldiers and their families. By helping to provide food and other bare necessities for these families and emergency supplies for soldiers now you can help secure their future. Honor those who are defending the holy land. Call now 888-488 IFCJ. That's 888488 IFCJ. Just go to their website, it's IFCJ.org and you can give Today they are in desperate need of help.
- [18:45]
Richard Karn
Hi, I'm Richard Carn and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new pocket hose Copperhead with pocke here and it's a total game changer. Old fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's pocket pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust proof anti burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus your super light and ultra durable pocket hose. Copperhead is backed with a 10 year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what an exciting radio exclusive offer just for you for a limited time you can get a free pocket Pivot and their 10 pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size Copperhead hose. Just text water to 64,000. That's water to 64,000 for your two free gifts with purchase W A T E R to 64,000. By texting 64,000, you agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket Host Message and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply.
- [19:44]
Ted Cruz
Available at pockethose.com Terms the Medal of.
- [19:46]
J.R. Martinez
Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves.
- [19:57]
Podcast Host
This medal is for the men who.
- [19:59]
Ted Cruz
Went down that day.
- [20:01]
Podcast Host
It's for the families of those who didn't make it.
- [20:04]
J.R. Martinez
I'm J.R. martinez. I'm a U.S. army veteran myself and I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and I Heart podcast from Robert Blake, the first black sailor to be awarded the medal. To Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice. These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
- [20:51]
Ben Ferguson
I wanna get back into the Tucker Carlson interview that you did and center there was some interesting themes that came out of this interview. He was obviously attacking you, he was attacking Israel, he was attacking groups that support Israel. But then there was an even weirder point where I think Tucker probably is hoping that we don't play this or that people didn't watch the whole interview and hear this part. It was about the Iranian regime. They've been trying to murder Donald Trump. They've hired hitmen, they've been trying to hire hitmen, They've come after former cabinet members of Donald Trump. And when you brought it up, he acted like he'd never heard of this before and that you were either lying or this is shocking news to him.
- [21:31]
Ted Cruz
Yeah, this was utterly bizarre. And I got to say in the whole course of the two hour interview, this was the strangest portion. For the last two years, Iran has been actively trying to murder President Donald Trump. Iran has hired hitmen to murder President Trump. Iran also has been trying to murder Mike Pompeo, President Trump's former Secretary of State, John Bolton, President Trump's former National Security Adviser and Brian Hook, President Trump's former Assistant Secretary of State. All of them. Iran has hired hitman and has been targeting them. Bizarrely, and this has been widely reported, these are objective facts. But bizarrely, Tucker Carlson assisted insisted this has never happened. Here, give a listen.
- [22:13]
Podcast Host
I just want to pull that thread because it's so important. I voted for Donald Trump. I campaigned for Donald Trump. He's our president, and we're on the cusp of a war. So if Iran. If there's evidence that Iran paid hitmen to kill Donald Trump and is currently doing that, where is that? Like, what are you even talking? I've never heard that before. Okay, where is the evidence? Who are these people? Why haven't they been arrested? Why are we not at war with Iran?
- [22:33]
Ted Cruz
That's a great question to ask.
- [22:35]
Podcast Host
How do you know that that's true?
- [22:37]
Ted Cruz
We know that it's true because we have been told that by the military and our intelligence community for the last two years. We, meaning who Congress, has in the public. I mean, we had multiple testimonies. I can send you testimonies.
- [22:51]
Podcast Host
We know the names of the people or where this happened or what they tried to do to kill Trump.
- [22:55]
Ted Cruz
We do not. We have not apprehended an Iranian hitman trying to kill him. We know that Iran is trying to.
- [23:01]
Podcast Host
Do so in the United States.
- [23:04]
Ted Cruz
Yes. And by the way, like, Iran put out.
- [23:06]
Podcast Host
This just seems like a huge headline, and you're acting like everyone knows this.
- [23:09]
Ted Cruz
I didn't know that Iran put out a whole video about murdering Trump.
- [23:14]
Podcast Host
Right. But I've never heard evidence that there are hitmen in the United States. I mean, trying to kill Trump. Right now. We should, like, have a nationwide dragnet on this, and we should attack Iran immediately if that's true, don't you think? No, but if they're trying to assassinate.
- [23:30]
Ted Cruz
Our president, they have been for two years.
- [23:32]
Podcast Host
Then why are we having war with them?
- [23:34]
Ted Cruz
Well, we are trying to.
- [23:35]
Podcast Host
Why don't we just nuke Tehran? If they're trying to murder our president, there's nothing that you could do that would be worse for the United States than murdering Trump. And I just don't understand why you're not calling for the use of nuclear weapons against the Ayatollah right now. I'm serious. If you really believe they're trying to.
- [23:48]
Ted Cruz
Murder nuclear weapons, whatever part of the problem of.
- [23:52]
Podcast Host
What do you mean? You don't seem to take the allegations seriously. I do. If you believe they're trying to murder Trump, we need to stop what we're doing and punish them.
- [24:00]
Ben Ferguson
I mean, insanely bizarre. We went from, let's not do anything to, oh, they're trying to kill Trump. Well, if that's true, let's just nuke them.
- [24:08]
Ted Cruz
So you're right. The entire two hours, Tucker's position was, do nothing on Iran, do nothing on Iran. Do nothing on Iran. Do not support Israel. Do not support Israel. Do not support Israel. But if Iran is trying to murder Trump, then we should nuke them. Okay, Ben, that's absolutely wacky. And look, it's the sign of someone who's not presenting an argument in good faith. No, we should not be nuking Iran. That's not a good idea. And by the way, this is a point where actually facts matter. And part of what was frustrating about this interview is that Tucker just says things that are blatantly false and he doesn't care if they're true or false. So this is an objective fact. I'm going to read to you from a political article on November 8, 2024, not very long ago. Here's the title. Iran ordered an operative to assassinate Trump before the election, federal prosecutors say. The alleged would be assassin is believed to be in Iran and remains at large, prosecutors said. Here's the beginning of the article. The Iranian government ordered an operative to assassinate Donald Trump before the 2024 election, Manhattan federal prosecutors said Friday, the latest in a string of assassination plots directed at the former and future president. In recent months. Prosecutors charged Farhad Shaqiri with murder for hire and providing material support to foreign terrorist organization. He is believed to be in Iran and remains at large, prosecutors said. The article continues, quote, according to a criminal complaint unsealed in Manhattan federal court, Shuri said during an FBI interview that in September he was directed by the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps of Iran to surveil and kill Trump, whom the charging papers identify as victim for when Shaqiri told an IRGC official that doing so would prove expensive, the official responded that money's not an issue, which Shaqiri understood to mean that the IRGC had previously spent a significant sum of money on efforts to murder victim 4 and was willing to continue spending a lot of money in its attempt to procure victims for assassination, according to the charging papers. So there's literally a Department of justice indictment specifically against an assassin for attempting to murder Trump. There also, by the way, was a separate assassin who was arrested for renting an apartment next to John Bolton, an Iranian assassin that was there to murder Trump's former national security adviser. And as I noted, the Iranians put out an entire video, a minute and a half video. It's an animated video that shows Donald Trump playing golf and shows the Iranians using a drone attack to kill him. All of that is objectively true. And yet Tucker says, I've never heard a word of it. I don't know anything about this. And I want to play this video right here. This is in Farsi, but I want to play it, and then I'm going to tell you what he's saying. So give a listen.
- [27:08]
Podcast Host
Was a bad back then.
- [27:27]
Ben Ferguson
So let's just be clear. That's the IRGC commander live on Islamic Republic of Iran State tv. And tell people what he just said.
- [27:37]
Ted Cruz
Well, his name is Amir Ali Hajazadeh. He's the commander of the irgc. He's on national television, and he says, quote, God willing, we'll be able to KILL Trump, Pompeo, General McKenzie and other U.S. commanders. That's on TV. Now, Tucker spent the entire interview denying that Iran was trying to kill President Trump. That's objectively false. Facts matter. And bizarrely, he said, well, if that fact was true, he thought we should immediately attack Iran and we should nuke Iran. Well, no, that's not the case. We should not nuke Iran, but we should do what President Trump is doing right now, which is support Israel in taking out Iran's nuclear capability and their senior military leadership. That actually makes sense. And I'll tell you that the day after our interview aired, President Trump was asked about the conflict between me and Tucker in the Oval Office. And here, give a listen to the back and forth President Trump had in the Oval with a reporter. You see the Tucker Carlson Senator Ted Cruz interview. It seems like this issue on whether or not the United States should strike is kind of dividing a lot of your supporters. No, my supporters are for me. My supporters are America first. They make America great again. My supporters don't want to see Iran have a new nuclear weapon.
- [28:53]
Richard Karn
Tucker's a nice guy.
- [28:55]
Ted Cruz
He called, apologized the other day because he thought, he said things were a little bit too strong.
- [29:00]
Richard Karn
And I appreciated that.
- [29:01]
Ted Cruz
And Ted Cruz is a nice guy. I mean, he's been with me for a long time.
- [29:05]
Richard Karn
I'd say once the race was over.
- [29:06]
Ted Cruz
He'S been with me ever since.
- [29:08]
Richard Karn
Right, but very simple.
- [29:12]
Ted Cruz
If they think that it's okay for.
- [29:14]
Richard Karn
Iran to have a nuclear weapon, then they should oppose me. But nobody thinks it's okay.
- [29:20]
Ben Ferguson
This goes back to the very beginning and why I think Tucker was so hostile. He wanted a distraction from the fact that he had messed up with Trump. He had to call Trump and apologize, and he thought, all right, if I just go after Ted Cruz, maybe that'll fix all my problems. I don't think it worked well.
- [29:37]
Ted Cruz
And look, the reason that Tucker had to apologize to Trump is that he had been publicly blasting Trump. He said Trump was complicit in Israel's war. And he said, he said what Trump was doing was not America first. And President Trump tweeted out and said, look, I'm the one who created America first and I decide what it is. And allowing Iran to have a nuclear weapon, that is not America first. And that's exactly what President Trump said in the Oval. You know what's amazing? We've laid out the facts that is undisputed. By the way, out of 100 senators, all 100 agree that Iran is trying to murder President Trump, even the looniest, even Bernie Sanders, even Elizabeth Warren, doesn't dispute that Iran is trying to murder Trump because it's an objective fact. I've laid them out, those facts out repeatedly. You know, Tucker has not responded once to that. He has not said, oh, I was wrong on that. He hasn't said, oh, well, gosh, I said if that was the case, we should attack Iran immediately and nuke them. Which, by the way, to be clear, we should not. At the end of the day, facts matter. And the good news is the commander in Chief's job is to be clear eyed and do what is necessary to keep America safe. President Trump is doing that. I spoke to him just a few days ago And I said, Mr. President, thank you, thank you for standing with Israel. Thank you for standing up for America. Thank you for defending our servicemen and women. You notice Iran has not attacked our servicemen and women because the President has made clear the consequences would be massive for doing so. And President Trump right now is being strong and resolute and I'm proud to stand with the President, that he is doing exactly the right thing. He, he is embodying America first and he's keeping this country safe.
- [31:16]
Ben Ferguson
And there's one big definition that has been coming up and I've seen it a lot and I've been asked about, especially since this interview, and it's the argument or the word isolationists or isolationism, what does that mean? And then your thoughts on it, Senator. So people understand it, but also what is your foreign policy? So people understand you're not an isolationist and you're not one of those. It's like, hey, let's go to war everywhere. We can either.
- [31:45]
Ted Cruz
Yeah, that's exactly right. And this is something we talked about quite a bit in the, in the interview with Tucker Carlson. And when he wasn't screaming at me and it wasn't a mud mess, we actually laid out some really important basic philosophy on foreign policy. Look, historically there have been two poles In Republican foreign policy, on the one side you've had the interventionists. They've been people like John McCain, people like Lindsey Graham, who are eager to use US military force, who are frequently advocating for a robust use of military force. On the other pole, you have the isolationists. And the most notable of those are Ron Paul and Rand Paul and Tucker Carlson, I think, is now emphatically in that category as well. And their view is that America should withdraw from the world, that we have two giant oceans on both sides and we should not employ the military. As Tucker said in an earlier clip we played, we should never kill anybody, which means our military should never engage with our enemies. I've always considered, and most people look at that and say, okay, you gotta be one or the other. I've always thought both views were wrong. I disagree with both. I disagree with interventionists, I disagree with isolationists. I consider myself a third point on the triangle. I consider myself a non interventionist hawk. Now, what does that mean? It means that I am exceptionally reluctant to use US Military force. We should have a very high threshold for sending our sons and daughters into harm's way. We should not engage in unnecessary wars. But, and this is a very important but, the touchstone for all foreign policy and military action should be the vital national security interest of the United States. So I oppose the Iraq war. The Iraq war under George W. Bush, I think was a mistake. It ended up making America less safe. We toppled a dictator, Saddam Hussein, who was killing radical Islamic terrorists. And what happened? The radical Islamic terrorists took over and they began killing Americans. That was bad. I also oppose what happened in Libya. Gaddafi was another dictator. He was killing radical Islamic terrorists. We toppled Gaddafi and the radical Islamic terrorists took over and began killing Americans. That was bad. The touchstone should be, does this make America more safe? Does this protect Americans? And the reason I believe that President Trump is exactly right to support Israel in stopping Iran's nuclear weapons capability is because Iran with a nuclear weapon, poses a clear threat to the safety and security of America and a clear threat of murdering a vast number of Americans. That's why Israel is acting. That's why President Trump is acting. And I'll point out, Ben, when I say non interventionist talk, that's a fancy way of saying what President Reagan referred to as peace through strength. Be strong enough that your enemies don't want to mess with you. If you want to avoid war, be strong when you're weak. When you're isolationist, you end up with more war because your enemies are aggressive, because they know you're weak. It is also, I believe, exactly what President Trump's foreign policy is. It's what he has done consistently. And I agree with President Trump's foreign policy. And I will say that that's true on Iran, that's true on Israel, but it's also true on Russia. And I want you to listen to a back and forth that Tucker and I had on Russia, because that's another area where clarity is valuable. And here, give a listen.
- [35:28]
Podcast Host
Don't think that Putin loves us. I'm distressed by the moral condition of most leaders around the world. Most of them. They all kill people. I'm against that. I'm just saying. I wish the focus here was more on this.
- [35:40]
Ted Cruz
Can I say something? I actually don't agree with that statement. They all kill people. There's a moral relativism. So I don't think Donald Trump is a murderer. He doesn't kill people. We don't have concentration.
- [35:48]
Podcast Host
Donald Trump, a murderer.
- [35:49]
Ted Cruz
You just said world leaders all kill people. And. And there's a moral relativism.
- [35:54]
Podcast Host
I'm hardly a moral relative.
- [35:56]
Ted Cruz
But you are. You just. That statement was the essence.
- [35:59]
Podcast Host
An isolationist, a more relativist.
- [36:02]
Ben Ferguson
Okay.
- [36:03]
Podcast Host
No.
- [36:04]
Ted Cruz
Did you just say world leaders all kill people?
- [36:06]
Podcast Host
I'm saying I'm against killing people in general, so. And hyperventilating about how Putin was in the KGB or whatever. I just want to serve American interests. And pushing into China is not in our interest at all. And you help do it. And you haven't apolog.
- [36:19]
Ted Cruz
And by the way, you're the cheerleader. I helped drive him into China. It's a complete lie.
- [36:23]
Podcast Host
You funded the war against him.
- [36:25]
Ted Cruz
No, I authored the legislation that shut down Nord Stream 2 that prevented the war. And if Trump had still been in the White House, we would have had the war. And look, the comment you made, the reason things like moral relativism are so dangerous. Everyone kills people. No, there is a difference. The United States, we don't have concentration camps. We don't torture and murder people. You look at China, where they've got a million prisoners in concentration camps. You look at Putin, where he's got prisoners in Siberia, he tortures and murders his political opponents. Donald Trump doesn't do that. America doesn't do that. And by the way, what are you. Other countries don't do that.
- [36:59]
Podcast Host
I see the game. It's like I'm the. I'm distressed.
- [37:03]
Ted Cruz
No, I'm responding with facts. You don't like the facts.
- [37:06]
Podcast Host
I don't even know what facts you're talking about. I'm not saying that Trump puts people in concentration camps. I campaign for Trump. I love Trump.
- [37:12]
Ted Cruz
So did I.
- [37:12]
Podcast Host
Okay, so this has nothing to do with Trump. I'm merely saying when you said every.
- [37:16]
Ted Cruz
World leader kills people, it drops some.
- [37:17]
Podcast Host
Morals emphasis on what's happening inside the country. That's it.
- [37:21]
Ted Cruz
Is there a moral difference between America and our enemies? Is there a moral difference between America and what is it? Articulate it. It's valuable to say why.
- [37:29]
Ben Ferguson
Wow. And I think that's one of the biggest differences between you and Tucker Carlson right there in that conversation.
- [37:35]
Ted Cruz
Yeah, look, he would not say that Putin was a bad guy. He would not say that President Trump was right to take out General Soleimani. He would not say that President Trump was right to take out Al Baghdadi, the head of isis. He would not say that President Trump was right to take out ISIS as caliphate. And here I want you to listen to this additional back and forth we had on Russia. Say, I don't understand, for some reason you are really invested in defending Russia and I don't get that. I'm not attacking you with that. I'm genuinely like, I don't get why you're so passionate about defending Russia.
- [38:10]
Ben Ferguson
I mean, wow, Senator, the laughing at the end by him just because you were killing him with the facts really sums up the entire two hour interview in my opinion.
- [38:21]
Ted Cruz
It was an odd thing because he would say things that were just wildly untrue. He'd said, every world leader kills people. And no, it is not equivalent. Donald Trump is not equivalent to Vladimir Putin. And that's frankly something that leftists say. And unfortunately isolationists on the right say it as well. And it's simply not true. You know, we were having this interview in my office and the dominant feature in my office is that gigantic painting of Ronald Reagan in front of the Brandenburg Gate. And above him in German are the words tear down this wall in the style of the graffiti. I think those are the most important words uttered in modern times and they call for the importance of American leadership. Now, as I make clear this interview, I don't want us to be at war with Russia. We should not be at war with Russia, but it doesn't mean we need to be cheerleaders for Russia, that we need to be cutting essentially infomercials for Russian grocery stores. We ought to speak the truth. And the bully pulpit of the presidency is incredibly powerful. And I gotta say again, President Trump is doing that beautifully. The entire point of this interview was for me to make absolutely clear that on Israel, on Iran, President Trump is right and Tucker Carlson is wrong and we stand with Israel and we will keep the American people safe.
- [39:34]
Ben Ferguson
Don't forget we do this show Monday, Wednesday and Friday and make sure that subscriber auto download button wherever you get your podcast so you do not miss an episode. And also tomorrow on Saturday, we'll have the week in review. Some of the top things we talked about this past week that you may have missed. So make sure you listen to that as well. And the center and I will see you back here Saturday morning.
- [39:55]
J.R. Martinez
The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, the unexpected, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves.
- [40:09]
Podcast Host
This medal is for the men who.
- [40:10]
Ted Cruz
Went down that day.
- [40:12]
J.R. Martinez
On Medal of Honor Stories of Courage, you'll hear about these heroes and what their stories tell us about the nature of bravery. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [40:25]
Podcast Host
This is an iHeart podcast.