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- [00:01]
Michael Knowles
Coronavirus is sweeping the globe. And so live from the self quarantine studios, this is Verdict with Ted Cruz. Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz. I'm Michael Knowles. And Senator, I have to ask, as somebody who spent a lot of time with you at cpac, how are you feeling?
- [00:26]
Ted Cruz
You know, I'm feeling great. Thank you for asking. How are you feeling, Michael?
- [00:30]
Michael Knowles
Well, I'm feeling good and I'm feeling. I'm feeling better now that I know that it would appear that you have not suffered any consequences as a result of exposure to coronavirus.
- [00:41]
Ted Cruz
Well, I think that's right. But let me tell you what happened and how it came for me to be alone in my living room right now, Saturday night. So three days ago I got a call from the organizers of CPAC and they called and said at CPAC there was an individual who had since gotten sick and tested positive for coronavirus. And they asked him, who did you interact with while you were at cpac? And he mentioned one senator, me. And so the CPAC organizers described this to me and I remembered I saw this gentleman backstage outside the green room and we said hello and I shook his hand. The whole interaction was probably less than 60 seconds. It was just good to see you shook his hand. We may have taken a selfie and that was it. So anyway, CPAC tells me, well, this individual unfortunately is now sick and he's tested positive. So I sat down and made a whole series of phone calls and I reached out to health professionals, reached out to cdc, reached out to health and human services, reached out to the health director of the city of Houston and of Harris county and asked all of them, all right, what should I do? What is the proper conduct in this circumstance? What the doctors told me is that given the very brief interaction that it was less than a minute, number one. And number two, given that it had been at the time nine days since I'd seen him and I had and have today no symptoms, I feel fine, I feel great. They said the chances that I had contracted the virus were very, very low. And in fact they said I did not meet the CDC criteria for self quarantine. That being said, as I thought about it, I decided the right thing for me to do was to self quarantine nonetheless, that just given the nature of the job that representing 28 million people in Texas, I am out, I'm seeing people, I am engaging in people, engaging with people frequently that it made sense to be prudent. And so I stayed home that evening and since that time have stayed at My house self quarantining for 14 days from the point of the incident. But I am feeling great and healthy and strong.
- [03:02]
Michael Knowles
Well, that's good because I think people wanna hear your personal experience. You're one of the main people we've seen in the public eye who self quarantined. And I think there are two narratives emerging. On the one hand, we're being told that this is no worse than the flu, it's not a big deal, everybody's overreacting. On the other hand, we're being told this is gonna crash the global economy and we're all gonna die. From your perspective, talking to experts, which narrative is closer to the truth?
- [03:32]
Ted Cruz
Listen, I think both of those extremes are wrong. This is a serious public health threat and we should treat it seriously. The numbers are alarming. Since it began to spread, We've had over 116,000 cases worldwide. We've had over 4,000 deaths worldwide. Those numbers are very alarming. What we know about the coronavirus is that it is quite infectious and that its mortality rate appears to be substantially higher than the flus. And in particular, the population that is most vulnerable to coronavirus are older people and particularly older people who have other significant health issues. That's why, for example, in Washington state we saw a number, a concentrated number of deaths because a retirement home or retirement community, one person became infected and it spread in a very vulnerable community. I think we need to take those threats seriously. And I do think we're seeing local health authorities, state health authorities and federal health authorities taking it seriously. Because we've got an epidemic in an epidemic that's dangerous.
- [04:47]
Michael Knowles
Well, I wanna know how seriously they're taking it because we saw in Italy that certain regions became quarantined. Now the whole country of Italy is quarantined. Do you think there's a chance that we could see those kind of measures here in the United States?
- [05:00]
Ted Cruz
I think it is certainly possible. We don't know right now about the scope of the spread, but if you look at the numbers. So this virus originated, as we know, in China in the Wuhan province. There are now over 80,000 reported and confirmed cases of the virus. In China alone, we're seeing numbers spread. You know, I was looking at some of the numbers this morning that the United States, as of this morning, there were 761 cases. But we saw just this afternoon an additional 51 confirmed cases in the state of Massachusetts. Not only that, if we look at today's numbers, just from Italy, Italy is the country with the second worst Concentration of it after China just today we had reported 977 new cases and 168 new deaths. I mean, that is troubling. And if we see those numbers grow, then I think we will see. We've already seen events being canceled. I think in particular, nobody should be surprised to see large events that have people coming internationally to see those being canceled. We've seen a number of, number of them canceled already. Things like south by Southwest here in Texas. And I think there's a good likelihood of that going forward. But if the numbers spread, if you look at what they've done in Italy, they've got the entire country basically under lockdown. They've canceled sporting events, they've shut down public gatherings because they're trying to contain the spread of it. And I think as the facts merit it, we should respond accordingly. But it seems to me the wrong way to approach this is from the perspective of politics, is from rhetoric, and you see both sides trying to jockey for advantage. We ought to be calm and sober minded and we ought to be driven by the facts, we ought to be driven by the science, and we ought to be listening to the medical professionals.
- [06:58]
Michael Knowles
Well, Senator, I know that you don't want to approach this from a political angle, which means you probably didn't watch MSNBC's coverage here because you just used an absolutely forbidden phrase. You pointed out that the virus originally originated in Wuhan, which left wing commentators have been saying is now racist to observe the origins of the virus. Your take?
- [07:21]
Ted Cruz
Well, I think there are times when the media becomes self parodying and that's a great example of it. One of the reasons that this virus spread so rapidly and has been so difficult to contain is that early on the communist government in China did not want to be public about it. And so they held quiet, they suppressed information. Look, we know that the communist government of China has a long history of lying, that they're not to be trusted to begin with. So the stats I gave you of 80,000 confirmed cases of the virus and deaths In China, over 3,000 deaths in China, that's based on what the communist government is telling us. Those numbers could be much, much worse. And their longstanding policy of state propaganda I think substantially contributed to the spread of this virus. I will say I think the president of the Trump administration, perhaps the most important decision that was made early at the outset of this outbreak was to shut off commercial air travel to and from China, to shut off both air travel and for Americans coming home to quarantine them and have screening. I think that that was an unprecedented step. And just over a week ago, I chaired a hearing on the Senate, listening to expert testimony from the CDC and from Health and Human Services and from Border and Customs Patrol. All of the expert witnesses testify that the fact that we stopped air travel to China played a significant role slowing down the virus. It didn't stop it, but it slowed it down. And it may be one of the reasons why countries like Italy and Iran have a much higher level of infection right now because they were not as quick to stop air travel. That being said, it is now in the United States. It is spreading in the United States, and we've gotta treat it seriously. It is a virus that is contagious and is dangerous.
- [09:21]
Michael Knowles
Well, you bring up the deception of the Chinese government, and I think that's what a lot of people are wondering about. Now. It would be good to get your own insider perspective from Washington. Some people are saying this was just a bad case of bat soup, that people ate something they shouldn't have eaten, and that's how it spread. Others have pointed to this strange coincidence that there is a virus testing laboratory in Wuhan. Do we have any sense of the true origins of the virus?
- [09:50]
Ted Cruz
Well, we don't know for sure. I've asked medical experts, and they've said based on the sequencing of the genomes, it does not appear to be artificially created, that it appears to be a virus that has occurred in nature. You're right that a lot of people have focused on the Wuhan Virology Institute that is located right there. And indeed, they've got researchers there that are studying coronavirus and studying bats. I mean, that raises some obvious questions. At the same time, it's very interesting. Do you remember back last fall when the Houston Rockets, when Darrell Morey, the general manager, tweeted out about Hong Kong, he said, stand with Hong Kong. Stand for liberty. And the NBA went crazy, and China went crazy, and the NBA apologized profusely. I have to admit, it's kind of the same thing that anyone suggests. Well, gosh, you know, there are thousands, hundreds of thousands of cities all across the world. It just so happens this outbreak is there right where this virology lab is. And the collective media acts with this outrage of, okay, take your. Take your tin hat off. How dare you even ask that question? You know, it's obviously a question that people are gonna inquire. Look, the first step needs to be stopping this virus, stopping the disease, and protecting human life right now. But there are certainly going to be questions following up if there is any connection or not. And that seems at least a reasonable question to ask.
- [11:22]
Michael Knowles
What are the odds that this has an effect on the 2020 election? And I don't mean just one candidate is going to do better than another. Cand some people have written into the show to ask if there's a chance that if this really becomes a pandemic, everyone's quarantined, that they could even delay or postpone the election.
- [11:42]
Ted Cruz
You know, that would strike me as an extreme circumstance. I don't see that as terribly likely. But I do think it is clearly an epidemic right now, a pandemic. In fact, one of the questions I asked the experts at the beginning, I said, all right, what's the difference between an epidemic and pandemic? I didn't know the difference. They said, a pandemic is essentially where you have an epidemic in multiple geographic regions in multiple countries. This may well qualify as a pandemic. Now, you certainly have outbreaks not just in China now, but in over 100 countries worldwide. And so the breadth of it is significant. It is unfortunate seeing some partisans who want to use this for political purposes. So they want to. They wanna blame it all on President Trump. And we get. They don't like Donald Trump. That's not lost on anybody. But at the same time, I mean, he wasn't serving bat soup in the Wuhan province.
- [12:37]
Michael Knowles
Good observation.
- [12:38]
Ted Cruz
Putting all of this, blaming all of this on Donald Trump is a little absurd. And you can see the media trying to turn it politically. They want it to be the equivalent of Katrina and President Bush, the way he handled Katrina. It was not. He got a lot of criticism, a lot of blame for how he responded to Katrina. The media is gleeful to see the president stumble and how he's handled it. I do think at the outset, as I said, the decision to halt air traffic was the right decision. And I'll tell you, President Trump called me. I think it was two days after he made that decision. And he asked, he said, what did you think? Did I do the right thing? I said, Mr. President, I think you did exactly the right thing. There are serious economic repercussions. And this was early, this was right when the outbreak had been reported, that we stopped air traffic. And so there was some risk to the decision that the administration made, the President made. But I said, look, our first priority has to be protecting human lives and safety. And I think this is a common sense precaution that proved right. You also see some in the media that seem to be rooting for an economic collapse. So we've seen, look, it's been a wild week in the stock market. We've seen stocks plummet. It has not helped that we've also got an oil price war breaking out at the same time. Both of those are having pretty negative impacts on the economy. This, I think it is fair to expect that the coronavirus outbreak is going to impact people's lives. It's going to restrict, it's gonna restrict what they do, and it may well have a real impact on the economy. That doesn't mean we're headed into the Great Depression. I mean, there's some that are eager to hold up signs saying the end is nigh, but it is a real public health crisis and it needs to be treated accordingly.
- [14:34]
Michael Knowles
And it would seem to qualify as a pandemic. I like your definition because the question I had initially was, is this a pandemic or a Dem panic, you know, or the media just trying to blow this out of proportion? And it would seem to be somewhere in the middle of those two things. Is there a risk? I mean, now you've self quarantined. Members of the House of Representatives have self quarantined. The people most at risk here are older Americans in their 70s. I think the median age of the U.S. senate is somewhere around 150. You know, it tends to skew a little bit older. Is there a chance that we could see a suspension of some of the services of our government if people get too nervous that the virus is gonna spread?
- [15:16]
Ted Cruz
Look, I think essential and critical government services will continue, but we've gotta make sure that our first responders have safety equipment. I've spoken this week with the mayor of Houston. I've spoken with the mayor several times. I've spoken with the governor of Texas. One of the real focuses that I'm trying to assist on is making sure first responders get protective gear if this escalates. I think all of us also need to listen to the professionals. We need to listen to the cdc, listen to the health professionals. So what are they telling us? Number one, they're telling seniors, if you can stay home. I can tell you I've called both my parents, my mom and my dad, and they're 81 and 85. And I've said, look, just stay home, just for the time being. You don't need to go out on the town. You don't. You don't need to. I'd actually told my mom that I wasn't gonna come see her this weekend, even before I Knew I'd contacted someone with the virus because at 85, my mom's a two time cancer survivor. I'd just rather she stay in her apartment with the door closed. And that's not forever, but it is, at least for a period of time. So I think that is good advice. I've advised people in my family, particularly if they're seniors and they have health issues, if you can stay home, you should stay home. Beyond that, the advice people are giving, wash your hands. Wash your hands frequently. Interestingly enough, the health professionals are saying soap and water is more effective than hand sanitizer. And we're seeing more people just shaking hands instead of that bumping elbows. And I think that is a wise precaution. If you're sick, stay home. Look, if you've got, if you're coughing, if you're sick, you might be inclined to just motor through and go to work. I think now is a very good time. If you're sick, stay home. So all of us should listen to the health professional, should listen to the cdc. For example, health professionals are advising older Americans if you can stay home. That's what I've told my parents, both my mom and my dad, I've advised them stay home. My dad's 81, my mom is 85. In fact, I had told my mother even before I'd found out that I had encountered someone who tested positive. I told my mom, you know, I'm just not gonna come by and see you this weekend because she's 85 years old, she's a two time cancer survivor. And I said, look, it's just better, just stay in the apartment and if you need groceries, call and have them delivered. But just, and this is not forever, this is just for a period of time while there's a serious public health risk. That's what I'm advising people in my family. If you can stay home, particularly if you're in a vulnerable population, you probably should. Beyond that, you should follow common sense steps of wash your hands, use soap and water. They say soap and water is much more effective against this virus than is a hand sanitizer. Don't shake hands, just bump elbows instead. If you cough, cough. Well, they say cough into your elbow, then the bumping elbows. See, I mean that's where, look, you just have to use common sense. And if you're sick, stay home. You might be inclined to just power through and go to work anyway. Well, don't, if you wake up and you have a cough, just stay home and listen to the doctors that's good.
- [18:37]
Michael Knowles
Advice for all of us to take. I think I'm gonna ignore the whole elbow thing. I'm just going to bow like I'm Japanese or something. No touching. I don't want any contact with. What I wanna know though is what can we look for the government to be doing?
- [18:52]
Ted Cruz
Wasn't that how Obama treated foreign leaders? That's true, yeah.
- [18:56]
Michael Knowles
I don't wanna do that kind of bow. Definitely sort of mutual respect would be good in the coming weeks and months. If this really does continue to grow. Obviously we're all gonna keep washing our hands. Hopefully people will stay home from big events. There are several proposals out for the government to intervene both for public health and for the economy. What are some of those proposals that we can look do you think they're feasible and how soon do you think we could see them?
- [19:23]
Ted Cruz
Well, I think it's been interesting in the last few days seeing congressional Democrats. Their proposal to this crisis is past the entire agenda that they wanted to pass before the crisis began. So they're saying, well, the only response to this is wage controls and price controls and socialism and what they call Medicare for all, which is socialized medicine. Look, I don't think people ought to use this as an excuse to fight broader political battles. We should keep the public policy response targeted on actually where the problem is. That means we ought to be focusing on, number one, we just passed $8.3 billion in emergency funding for things like first responders, for things like screening, for things like additional resources for testing. I think all of that makes sense. I think we need to put more into protective gear. When I visited with the governor of Texas just a couple of days ago, that was one of his biggest concerns was making sure that state and local officials had protective gear. I think looking at removing regulatory barriers to developing a vaccine or developing treatment protocols for coronavirus, that makes a lot of sense. I've got legislation that I've introduced for several Congresses called the Results act that removes the barriers to new pharmaceuticals and medical devices getting approved. And what it says is if another major developed country like an EU or like a Canada approves a pharmaceutical or a medical device that the FDA has 30 days to approve it. Here it accelerates it. I think particularly in the context of the coronavirus, that makes sense. We ought to maximize the incentives for medical research and innovation to number one, prevent the spread of this disease and number two, to help people who do contract the virus to protect their lives and safety.
- [21:13]
Michael Knowles
Right. Well, while all of our listeners are self quarantining Themselves, they've sent in a few questions. And so in our last minute or two that we've got here, let's see if we can run through them. We've got one from StopAnime. I guess that's a Twitter account. StopAnime asks, There seems to be some potential that Ted Cruz gave Nigel Farage coronavirus. How is Ted doing? What action is he taking? And have you told Nigel? Thanks.
- [21:40]
Ted Cruz
Well, I appreciate that question. Actually, the odds of that are zero. Cause I did the Nigel Farage interview before we went to cpac. And so I saw Nigel the day before, before I encountered the individual with the virus. Now, look, that being said, Nigel, like me, like a lot of people in public life, encounters a lot of people. And when you have a virus that is an epidemic that is spreading, all of us have some risk of contacting it. But the person that I saw, Nigel, the day before I went to cpac.
- [22:11]
Michael Knowles
You know, Nigel got out of our studios just in time. Much like Great Britain got out of the European Union just in time. So that guy, really impeccable on his. Tim, we've got a question about your colleague, Senator Chuck Schumer. This is from James. James points out that Senator Schumer the other day at a rally outside of the Supreme Court, seemed to threaten Justices Gorsuch and Kavanaugh. He said, quote, I wanna tell you, Gorsuch, I wanna tell you, Kavanaugh, you've released the whirlwind and you will pay the price. You will not know what hit you if you go forward with these awful decisions. James wants to know if this violates any law and if there will be any consequences that he'll face.
- [22:51]
Ted Cruz
Well, I certainly hope so. And what Chuck Schumer did, it was disgraceful. It was wrong. He stood in front of the court and he really crossed a line where he was threatening and he was trying to intimidate Supreme Court justices to affect the outcome of a case. And he threatened, at a minimum, political retribution. But there was more than a tinge of violence in the words he used. And those threats are not something that should be taken lightly. We live in an era where we saw a crazed leftist madman open fire at Republican congressmen at baseball practice because that madman wanted to kill, specifically Republican congressmen. We've seen judges targeted for violence. So when you have Chuck Schumer calling for the whirlwind to be unleashed and to target these justices, it really crossed a line. And I've joined with a number of other senators in a resolution to censure Chuck Schumer. I think the Senate should act formally to censure him. And to say this is not acceptable. You can have political arguments, but trying to intimidate and threaten justices, that really crosses the line.
- [23:58]
Michael Knowles
Senator, before we go here, I just have to know, because I've been getting a lot of messages asking about you, asking about what it was like being backstage at CPAC and interacting with these people. Could you just describe the moment when you get the call that you had interacted with someone who had been infected with coronavirus?
- [24:18]
Ted Cruz
Well, sure. So I was at home, and Heidi and I were getting dressed. We were getting ready to head out the door because it was Saturday evening, and we had an event, a campaign fundraiser that we had scheduled, an Eagles concert. The Eagles were in concert in Houston. I'm a big Eagles fan. Oh, yeah. So I had suggested it. I'd suggested it months earlier, said, hey, wouldn't it be great to do a fundraiser at the concert? People who want to come and they'll want to support the campaign. And so we had a suite full of friends of ours who had come and contributed and were at the concert. And Heidi is, like, fully dressed up and dressed up to the nines and coming down the stairs. And I'm like, well, sweetheart, I think we're not gonna go. And she's like, what do you mean we're not gonna go? I mean, she was less than thrilled with that news. And so we had to call our friends who were already there. So we were late because I'm sitting there on the phone trying to talk through what to do with this. And our friends are at the concert. It's getting ready to start, and one of them just put it on speakerphone, and there was a group of them there. I said, look, this may sound like a very strange thing, but Heidi and I are not going to come join you because we're staying home. Because I just got a call that I interacted with someone who tested positive. And so I think the wise thing to do is just stay home and not expose you guys. So I miss the Eagles concert, much to my great annoyance. But I did put on Hotel California at home, and we listened to it in our living room.
- [25:44]
Michael Knowles
That's almost the same thing. I gotta tell you, Senator, you're much responsible than I am. If I had gotten that phone call, I would have called my friends and said, listen, guys, I'm not missing the box suite. You're all gonna get the Woo flu. I don't care. Come at your own peril. But what you did is the more responsible thing.
- [26:00]
Ted Cruz
Michael, I'll tell you this. I have no musical talent whatsoever, but if I could play one song on the piano, it would be Desperado. And Heidi is a wonderful piano player and periodically she'll play in the evenings and I'll often ask her to play Desperado for me. And it's just. It's a beautiful, powerful song.
- [26:19]
Michael Knowles
Well, you might have some time in your self quarantine to learn it and then hopefully we'll get you back to Washington soon so that we can do this in person and we can shut down our self quarantined studios.
- [26:29]
Ted Cruz
I can do. That's about it.
- [26:34]
Michael Knowles
Well, everybody's gotta start somewhere, I suppose. And you also have to end somewhere too. Unfortunately, we are out of time. But we will be back again soon. I'm Michael Knowles. This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.
- [26:54]
Ted Cruz
This episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz is being brought to you by Jobs, Freedom and Security pac, a political action committee dedicated to supporting conservative causes, organizations and candidates across the country. In 2022, jobs freed and Security PAC plans to donate to conservative candidates running for Congress and help the Republican Party across the nation.