← The 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson
The 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson
Deep Dive into Hunter Biden & the Weaponization of the Federal Government: Part 2 with Jim Jordan
00:44:53
Loading summary
Transcript192 lines
- [00:01]
Ben Shapiro
Welcome to Washington, D.C. part two of our Deep dive into the Biden crime family and the investigation center. As always, great to be with you here in D.C. with our special guest, Congressman Jim Jordan. And I want to remind people we did part one that came out on Wednesday morning with some very big breaking news in that if you missed it, go back and listen to it. It's an important show.
- [00:26]
Jim Jordan
Well, Wednesday's show and today's show are designed to really be a resource. If you're wondering, all right, what's going on with all of this scandal. And listen, it's hard. You're busy, you're working. You turn on the tv, you hear a sound bite here or there, but you may not understand what all is going on. And the great thing about a podcast, I have to admit, having done this now for several years, what I like about the format is we can have an actual conversation. You're not rushed, and get into real details. And so this is part two, and part two we're gonna start with. Look, one of the things you're chairman in the House of the House Judiciary Committee, but also the Subcommittee on the Weaponization of the Federal Government. And let's start with. As you know, the last book I wrote was justice how the Left has Weaponized Our Legal System. And you're chairing a subcommittee focused on that. Tell us, what is the focus of the subcommittee, and what does it mean, weaponizing the federal government?
- [01:30]
Congressman Jim Jordan
The agencies have been turned on the American people, the people they're supposed to serve. So instead of serving the taxpayer, the people who pay their salaries, who pay for our government, I think it's been turned against. Turned against Americans for political reasons. And I would actually go back to remember about a year ago, I guess it's a little less than a year ago, when Joe Biden stood in front of Independence hall and called half the country fascist.
- [01:52]
Jim Jordan
Yeah. Bathed in red light. He looked like Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars.
- [01:56]
Congressman Jim Jordan
It was kind of crazy, kind of creepy.
- [02:00]
Jim Jordan
But he agree with everything you said, except for the word kind of.
- [02:02]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yeah, it was bad. And so now you think about. We feel like some of these agencies are focused just with that mindset. I'll give you a great example. This happened in the field office, the Richmond field office of the FBI. They put together this memorandum, they call it in the FBI, they call it a domain perspective. And we've actually seen it, the one that's, you know, very few redactions. The first one that came out had a lot of redactions, but the one with Very few redactions. And this was the radical traditional Catholic memorandum. And you read through this. They were talking about developing sources inside the parish, informants inside the church. I mean, the idea someone. And this was signed off on by five people at the Richmond field office, including the chief division counsel. So some lawyer who went to law school and probably should have had a course on the Constitution if they didn't. Someone taught him about the First Amendment, the Bill of Rights, and yet they signed off on this. And when you read.
- [03:04]
Jim Jordan
They're talking about sending spies into Catholic churches and trying to recruit priests to be informants for the FBI on their flock.
- [03:13]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yeah, right, right. Actually think about. And, you know, confessional, like, what. What's going. This is crazy. What. So now.
- [03:20]
Jim Jordan
All right, on this point, and I want to keep on the deep dive, but I do have to tell you one of my favorite stories. So Justice Antonin Scalia, one of the greatest justices ever to serve on the court, when Justice Scalia is nominated to the D.C. circuit, the FBI, anytime you get nominated to be a judge, the FBI does a background check. And Scalia gets a call from his childhood priest. And the priest says, nino, FBI called asking questions about you. But don't you worry, I didn't tell him nothing. That's a true story.
- [04:00]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Really?
- [04:01]
Jim Jordan
That's a great priest.
- [04:02]
Ben Shapiro
That's awesome.
- [04:02]
Jim Jordan
That's the answer you want your priest to give?
- [04:05]
Congressman Jim Jordan
That's.
- [04:06]
Ben Shapiro
You don't switch after that. You stick with him. Ride or die to the very end.
- [04:10]
Jim Jordan
But Scalia loved telling that story.
- [04:12]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yeah, that's a great story. So this memorandum, this domain perspective, talks about the sources inside in the parish, inside the church. But what troubled me is when you read through it, what they really were defining as a radical traditional Catholic. They had a footnote about the Dobbs decision. They said that the extremists and radical traditional Catholics may find common ground. I forget how the sentence exactly went, but it was something to. The effect on abortion, on marriage. It was basically if you're.
- [04:43]
Jim Jordan
And the Latin Mass, if you attended the Latin Mass, if you're a pro.
- [04:48]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Life, pro family Catholic, you're radical. And it was funny because when this sort of came out a couple months ago, I happened to be doing Sean Duffy's show because he's on Fox Business. And Sean was asking me about it. And I said, sean, when you read through this and kind of read between the lines, it's like, I thought of you and Rachel's family because they got like 30 kids, you know, and they're pro life, pro Family. They're wonderful, great people. Sean was a great member. And it's like they're defining them as radical. That's like, that's how traditional values are now.
- [05:20]
Ben Shapiro
Radical values in the eyes of the government.
- [05:21]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yeah.
- [05:22]
Jim Jordan
And the Catholic Church. And actually, I would say more broadly that they define it as anyone who's serious about their faith. That makes you inherently suspect.
- [05:30]
Congressman Jim Jordan
And that is so contrary to the First Amendment. It's like, and you know, the FBI pulled this back, but would they have pulled it back but for a whistleblower who came and told us, like, I don't know, I'd like to think they would.
- [05:42]
Ben Shapiro
Well, it's the same way that going after parents and categorizing parents as you are a domestic terrorist, if you show up to your school board and you get angry at what they're doing with your kids.
- [05:51]
Jim Jordan
Well, and Jim broke the story about how the FBI is currently using a threat tag. So, look, we've discussed at great length how Merrick Garland, one of the first things he did was directed the FBI to go after and target parents who dare speak up at school boards and to treat them. This was in response to the national association of School Boards that asked that parents be treated as domestic terrorists under the Patriot Act. And within five or six days, Merrick Garland snaps to attention, issues the memorandum. It becomes public. NASA association of School Board apologizes for it after the hearing, but Merrick Garland doesn't back down at all. And then what you broke is they're still doing it.
- [06:35]
Congressman Jim Jordan
That memorandum is still in place. The memorandum from Richmond has been rescinded. Thank goodness. Go back to the school board thing. It'd been you and the senator bring this up. September 29, 2021, the school board association, left wing political group, puts out the memorandum, use the Patriot act against moms and dads. Five days later is October 4th. The Attorney General, the United States issues a memorandum doing exactly what the School Boards association ask. And then two weeks later, on October 20, October 20, 16 days later, on October 20.
- [07:06]
Jim Jordan
Let me ask you something. You're the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee. Does the Biden DOJ respond to you in five days?
- [07:14]
Congressman Jim Jordan
That's a great point.
- [07:15]
Jim Jordan
No, they don't respond to the Senate Judiciary Committee.
- [07:17]
Congressman Jim Jordan
No, they don't. But think about it. October 20th is when the threat tag and an email gets sent out to FBI agents all across the country, all the field offices. So I always tell people. So from September 29 to October 20, 22 days to your point, when have you ever seen the Federal Government move that fast? Yeah, never. But when it came to going out.
- [07:37]
Jim Jordan
Well, they did find the leaker of the Dobbs decision, right?
- [07:40]
Ben Shapiro
Yes. In record time, right? Record time. Yeah. Right.
- [07:43]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yeah. Right. That's another issue, though. But you talk about weaponization. That is like turning. When you think that the Justice Department didn't prosecute any of these people who were protested at Justices Homes, the attack on the court, all designed, I think, to intimidate the court on that particular decision and set the stage for what they really want to do, which is pack the court.
- [08:06]
Jim Jordan
Well. Weaponization.
- [08:07]
Congressman Jim Jordan
You've talked about this and wrote about this.
- [08:09]
Jim Jordan
Weaponization is twofold. It is both using the machinery of government as a weapon to attack your enemies, but it's also declining to give the protection of law to people you disagree with.
- [08:23]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Well said.
- [08:25]
Jim Jordan
And look, this is something that George Soros prosecutors understand. We have DA's who come in and they realize you can abolish the police by shutting the police down, or you can abolish the police by putting a DA in who won't prosecute violent criminals. Either one does the same thing.
- [08:39]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Who won't prosecute the folks that the good police officers go out, all those good cops on the street to go out and arrest won't prosecute them. No, you're exactly right.
- [08:47]
Jim Jordan
And Merrick Garland's doing the same thing. It is a federal crime, unequivocal on the statute books, that you cannot protest at a Justice's home. They've done so night after night after night. And DOJ has not prosecuted a single person. They directed the marshals not to arrest them.
- [09:05]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yep.
- [09:06]
Jim Jordan
Directly contrary to law. And Merrick Garland, when asked. I've asked him at great length, and he just. He won't. He doesn't like that law.
- [09:15]
Congressman Jim Jordan
18 USC section 1507, you can raise concerns about. Okay, is that law got some First Amendment problems? It's the law. And it was. And they were doing.
- [09:24]
Jim Jordan
And by the way, people firebombing pregnancy, crisis pregnancy centers, they don't prosecute that either. They've got the resources to send people undercover into Catholic churches.
- [09:34]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Remember that.
- [09:34]
Ben Shapiro
Yeah. It's hard to find people at night when they commit crimes. That's why they can't get them.
- [09:38]
Congressman Jim Jordan
But it was hundreds of churches.
- [09:40]
Jim Jordan
It's convenient. Most criminals commit their crimes during the day because really, this DOJ can't be bothered to turn the lights on.
- [09:46]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Hundreds of churches and crisis pregnancy centers have been attacked in the aftermath of the leak. And as you pointed out earlier, Senator, we still don't know who the leaker was. But we, but we, I think we can logically figure out what the motive was. The motive was to intimidate the court and get him to change that decision.
- [10:03]
Ben Shapiro
There's a lot of Americans that are gonna, I know, think is there going to be any accountability for abuse of power? And I want to go back to the investigation with Hunter Biden and the Biden family. Let's talk about how many Bidens are involved. And I understand that people say, well, you got to make a living. I've heard people say that you got to make a living. But the reality is to make as much money they're having coming in. And let's talk about where the money's coming from. You know a lot about that money and I think we should do a really deep dive into where the cash is coming from. Before we get to that, I want to tell you about our friends at Patriot Mobile, the only conservative cell phone company in the country. If you've got a cell phone and you're paying a bill right now, stop giving it to big tech people that are fighting against your values and give it to a company that fights for what we believe in. Not only can you keep your same cell phone number, but you're actually, every time you pay your bill, a portion of that bill is going to support and protect first and second amendment rights, the rights of unborn children, helping with adoptions, helping with parents who are trying to have a say in their kids future in the public schools. This is what Patriot money is doing. Patriot Mobile is doing with your money when you pay your bill. So make the switch and make a difference on something you're going to pay for every month anyway. 878-PATRIOT. Use the promo code. Verdict. You'll get free activation. The best deals of the year. 878-PATriOT. That's 878-PATRIOT or patriot mobile.com verdict. Make the switch today. 878-PATRIAT. Let's talk about these suspicious activity reports because for people that don't know what that is, banks can flag things. They can flag things I think are suspicious.
- [11:45]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yep.
- [11:46]
Ben Shapiro
And there's a hell of a lot of them connected to the last name Biden. Why are there so many, first off? And is it because so much of the money is coming in from places that are shady or is it because they know who the money's coming from and they've already said this is a bad actor?
- [12:03]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Well, I think it's probably all the above where we're trying to put all those pieces together. But you know, it's Ukraine, it's China, it's Russia. Not, not exactly the countries that you jump to the, to the top of the list that are, you know, reputable kind of places where you're going to be doing business. So I think, you know, was it the mayor of Moscow's wife gave 100. I forget that one was a ton of several million. Yeah, yeah, million, million plus on and on. So there's, there's a number of these places where it's coming from. I think complexity, you know, 20 some LLC that are set up, that, with the Biden family and their partners, this, this Robinson Walker guy and these others. When you got that many LLCs, companies are setting up, I think complexity was the, was the objective and it was designed to, it seems to me.
- [12:49]
Jim Jordan
Well, let me ask you law enforcement question. When you have crooks, when you have drug cartels, when you have the Mafia, why do they create all sorts of shell corporations to move the money?
- [13:01]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yep. No, I know, because it's probably because it's money laundering, but. So we don't know if that's the same thing going on here. But it all starts to look suspicious again. I think we, we talked about this in our last one. But you know, there aren't just one or two suspicious activity reports. There's 170 some. And it's not just one or two LLCs. It's not like one company, one entity. They set up and receive money and they're doing real work, real business, real value, real service. That's not the case. There's 20 some of these LLCs and they're getting money from all these countries that have got kind of shady concerns there. And it's literally millions of dollars. So.
- [13:39]
Jim Jordan
And you know, it's an amazing thing. Look, there are people in politics who have family members who are lobbyists who say, okay, you know, you've got a Democrat who's got a family member who goes and works with a big labor union, goes and works with a teacher's union. That stuff is shady, but not generally illegal. It really says something when the son of the vice president decides his business model is not just to go get a bunch of Democrat clients to hire him to influence dad, but go to foreign nations. Communist China, Russia and Ukraine. I mean, that's quite the collection. You know, you kind of wonder where like Libya and Iran and North Korea are. I mean it.
- [14:33]
Ben Shapiro
There's 170. You may be in line.
- [14:35]
Jim Jordan
Well, I have no evidence of that, so I'm not suggesting that, but it.
- [14:38]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Really is well, remember when Ukraine was, I think on the list of corrupt countries was like, maybe number one is like, right near the top. So just that in and of itself. And Russia is certainly corrupt. Kind of. Kind of place for business as well. So, yeah, those are. Those are right near the top of the list. And this is where Hunter Biden's getting. Getting a lot of money.
- [14:59]
Ben Shapiro
How much are you concerned about? The fact that apparently the money that was coming in from the Russians is coming in from individuals has still not been named as those that are being sanctioned by our government. A new round of sanctions came out a few weeks ago. Not on that list are the people that gave Hunter Biden, the Biden family, millions of dollars. Literally.
- [15:20]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yeah. I mean, we'll have to see. But, you know, I'm at the point now there's not a whole lot that surprised me. One of the things I've learned over time is you've been involved in these investigations. Whether we go clear back, I think it was 10 years ago this week when we first learned about Lois Lerner and the IRS targeting, you know, conservatives when you were running for office. So the one thing I always learned is when you get in these investigations, the one thing we always get wrong is it's always worse than we thought and that maybe that.
- [15:52]
Ben Shapiro
Is this worse than you thought?
- [15:53]
Congressman Jim Jordan
I mean, well, it may not be with Biden's. I don't know yet, because we haven't completed the investigation. But every other one, that's always been the case.
- [15:59]
Jim Jordan
And remember when Lois Lerner, who was a senior official at the Department of Justice, she was targeting conservatives, she was targeting Tea Party groups, she was targeting pro Israel groups, she was targeting pro life groups, she was targeting groups that included in their title anything about the Constitution or the Bill of Rights that.
- [16:15]
Congressman Jim Jordan
That was suspect Patriot.
- [16:17]
Jim Jordan
If you believed in the Bill of Rights.
- [16:19]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yeah.
- [16:20]
Jim Jordan
Scary that that was.
- [16:21]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yeah.
- [16:22]
Jim Jordan
And you remember when the news broke? The news broke because the Department of Treasury Inspector General.
- [16:27]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yep.
- [16:28]
Jim Jordan
Reported on it.
- [16:29]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Sure did.
- [16:30]
Jim Jordan
And Barack Obama went and did a press conference and he said, quote, I am angry, and the American people have a right to be angry. Now, that. That was actually.
- [16:39]
Congressman Jim Jordan
It's good.
- [16:40]
Jim Jordan
The second half of it was right. The first half of it was a lie. And it was a lie because he wasn't angry. He was angry, got caught. But if he was angry, he wouldn't have done what he did after that, which is stonewall and stonewall and stonewall. And when Lois Lerner pleads the Fifth and refuses to testify and is held in contempt of Congress. You know what, his Department of Justice didn't prosecute him.
- [17:01]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Right. And I believe he said later on that he didn't think anyone did anything wrong. And it's like there's a pending investigation. You can't have the, you can't have the head of the executive branch saying, you know, judging the outcome and that there's nothing wrong here. So. Yeah, but he, what she did was just targeting conservative groups, applying for tax exempt status and having this be on the lookout list of people applying for the reasons you stated so well.
- [17:29]
Jim Jordan
And that was the model for what's happened under Biden. And by the way, in between Obama and Biden, you know, the Trump administration and amazingly enough, the federal government was weaponized against him, the sitting president. You know, Ben asked a minute ago about accountability, what accountability has there been for the DOJ and FBI officials involved in Crossfire Hurricane?
- [17:55]
Congressman Jim Jordan
I know, I know. It's other than Klein Smith who falsified a document in front of the FISA court, no one's had anything. And it's probably the question I get more than any other. I'm sure you get the same way when you're out and about talking with folks around the country.
- [18:07]
Jim Jordan
And by the way, let's pause on Klein Smith because we've lived this for a while, but not everyone listening to this. So Klein Smith was an assistant general counsel at the FBI who fraudulently created a counterfeit document and submitted it to a federal court. And in particular, what the counterfeit document was is they wanted to get a wiretap on Carter Page, who was one of the foreign policy advisors advising the Trump campaign. This is in 2016. And the basis for this wiretap is Carter Page was talking to some shady Russians. And so the FBI, doing actually its job, reached out and emailed the CIA and said, hey, is this guy a source? Is an asset for you? Because if you're talking to shady Russians, that's pretty suspicious if you're doing it.
- [19:02]
Ben Shapiro
On behalf of your country, the United States of America. Thank you. It's not.
- [19:06]
Jim Jordan
Yeah, it's not suspicious. Yeah, like it's a good thing.
- [19:09]
Ben Shapiro
Is he our guy? Is he one of us?
- [19:10]
Jim Jordan
Is he a friendly and so client? Smith emails. The CIA says, is he a source for you? CIA emails back, yes, he is. He is a source. And Klein Smith takes that email.
- [19:22]
Congressman Jim Jordan
I know.
- [19:22]
Jim Jordan
And he fraudulently alters it and he changes. Is a source. 2 is not a source.
- [19:28]
Congressman Jim Jordan
180 degrees.
- [19:29]
Ben Shapiro
So how many days has he been in jail for this?
- [19:31]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Zero.
- [19:31]
Jim Jordan
Not a Day. That's not a day.
- [19:35]
Ben Shapiro
And that's the problem.
- [19:36]
Jim Jordan
And that was submitted to a federal court. And I guarantee if any of us created a fraudulent document and submitted it to a federal court, you do real jail time.
- [19:44]
Congressman Jim Jordan
And the thing that always sticks out to me is 180 degree change in the meaning is not. It's just like you can't change it more. They did that.
- [19:53]
Ben Shapiro
So I still go back to that campaign. I remember how they said Donald Trump was insane because he said they were spying on my campaign and they said no one was. Obama said that no one's spying on his campaign. It's ludicrous. They were.
- [20:06]
Jim Jordan
Sounds like something 51 intelligence officials.
- [20:09]
Ben Shapiro
Yeah, right. Yeah. Just get them to sign a letter and it's all good.
- [20:11]
Jim Jordan
Well, you know, look, Crossfire Hurricane, part of the reason it happened is nobody believed Trump would be president, so they'd never been caught. If Hillary had won, this would have all faded into the ground.
- [20:28]
Ben Shapiro
Remind you of Crossfire Hurricane, just so they understand that. Exactly.
- [20:31]
Jim Jordan
So Crossfire Hurricane was the name given to the effort to target the person who was then the Republican nominee to be president. And it was the deep state engaged in war. And it was the same weaponization that had begun under Obama. And actually Crossfire Hurricane began under Obama and then it waged on under Trump. And actually July 5, 2017, there was a meeting in the Oval Office with Barack Obama, with Joe Biden, with Jim Comey, who was the head of the FBI, with James Clapper. And they decided, we're going to keep this going and we're going to target the president. At that point, they knew Trump was coming in. He was 15 days away from being sworn in.
- [21:24]
Ben Shapiro
And they said, keep it going.
- [21:25]
Jim Jordan
And they made a decision. And by the way, that's where Joe Biden suggested in that meeting going after Michael Flynn, the incoming National Security adviser, under the Logan act, which the Logan act, three times in history, has been enforced so bad it makes it a crime essentially, for a private citizen to engage in diplomacy with foreign countries.
- [21:52]
Ben Shapiro
John Kerry's done that a lot.
- [21:54]
Jim Jordan
Daily.
- [21:55]
Ben Shapiro
Yeah.
- [21:56]
Congressman Jim Jordan
But it's also when they decided to go up to Trump Tower. President elect Trump, January 5th of 2017. So he's President elect, they go up there and Comey briefs him on the dossier that they already knew was false, and Comey briefs him on it. And I'm convinced the only reason. Come on.
- [22:11]
Jim Jordan
And that had been paid for by the Hillary Clinton campaign.
- [22:13]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Right. And the only reason he briefs him on it is so that they can leak it Yep. So that they can tell so they can say it was so important. Jim Comey went to New York to brief President elect Trump on the dossier that then leaks. They print the doc. That's when it all got rolling. That led to ultimately led to the special counsel after Trump fires Comey and they get the special counsel. It's also interesting you mentioned crossfire Hurricane. I always think this is funny because remember the Hillary Clinton email that investigation was called the mid year exam. Yeah. You know, very boring and plain. But going into President Trump was like crossfire hurt. Like you can see him pounding their chest like we're going to get. So like even the names they give these things kind of indicate the bias that exists there with, with folks in the government.
- [23:00]
Ben Shapiro
You've seen a lot and investigations. What has shocked you the most by your investigation? How the Biden family has exploded, the money that's come in, the players, the suspicious activity reports. What is the moment when you're going through this that really even took you back aback saying wow, I can't believe that I'm even seeing this, reading this, looking at this, even having to contemplate the possibility of X. And before you answer that, I want to tell you about our friends at Augusta Precious Metals. You can protect your retirement in this crazy economy with a gold ira. And I trust my friends, Augusta Precious Metals, they can help you protect your hard earned dollars in this crazy economy. We've seen the bank failures, we've seen bank takeovers recently. And if you're in retirement or close to retirement, you know there is no time to make up losses. That is where gold can help you protect your hard earned dollars. Talk to one of the experts that I guess the precious metals, not only do they sit down with you one on one, but they'll send you your free guide on gold so you can understand what gold can do for you and how it can help you. Call them 877-the number 4 Gold IRA. That's 877 the number 4 Gold IRA. Or online at augustapreciousmetals.com that's augustapretiousmetals.com Call them. Use the promo code Verdict. You'll get that free gold guide. Augusta precious metals.com Congressman, you've seen a lot. What shocked you the most?
- [24:32]
Congressman Jim Jordan
I think one of the things that and I've touched on it a little bit before, but Elvis Chan has a sworn declaration with when Senator Schmidt, then former Attorney General Schmidt in Missouri brought a case against the big tech companies in this collusion and this suppression of information Elvis Chan has a declaration there where he says that repeatedly. Excuse me, I said that wrong. Elvis Chan is the FBI agent talking to Yoel Roth at Twitter. And Yoel Roth says in his sworn declaration that repeatedly in the month of October 2020, we had agencies telling us, FBI and other agencies telling us to expect a Hunter Biden laptop hack and leak. There's going to be a hack and leak operation that will happen in October of 2020, and it will involve Hunter Biden. And we were repeatedly told that by.
- [25:27]
Jim Jordan
Various government agencies and the FBI was in possession of Hunter's laptop.
- [25:30]
Congressman Jim Jordan
They already had the laptop. So they're being repeatedly told what's going to happen, when it's going to happen, who it's going to involve, what's going to happen. Hack and leak. When it's going to happen. October 2020, just weeks before the most important election we have.
- [25:43]
Jim Jordan
And.
- [25:43]
Congressman Jim Jordan
And who it's going to involve. Hunter Biden. And you step back and you say, how in the freak did they know? And of course they knew, because what Senator just said they had the laptop. So that's when to me, like, oh, my goodness, they had the laptop. They expected it to get public. Now, we all know there's an October Surprise. We get one every four years. Right?
- [26:02]
Ben Shapiro
Right.
- [26:02]
Congressman Jim Jordan
So that doesn't surprise us. But when you can name exactly what the October Surprise is going to be, that's like I said when I first. Were these guys clairvoyant? How did they know? How did they. They were prophets, you know, they could figure it out. Like, no, they had the doc, they had the laptop. So that's when it all hit me. Like, you've got to be kidding me.
- [26:22]
Jim Jordan
No interest in verifying its authenticity, at least that we know of. They had no interest in investigating the evidence of corruption within the laptop, that they were perfectly happy to keep it utterly dormant. That was 2019. December 2019. They got possession of the laptop. We're sitting here in 2023, and there still hasn't been a prosecution. And finally, Hunter's admitted it's his laptop in terms of trying to fight against this.
- [26:49]
Ben Shapiro
But not in Arkansas. Yeah, not in Arkansas. He backpedaled, which is gonna, I think, get him in a lot of trouble. If you notice that when he was down there, his attorney's like, we're not even saying this is real. It's like, well, hold on. You said it somewhere else. It was real, but for the. But. But not. No, now it's not real, because I don't want you to see where my Money is because I don't want to have to pay for this kid.
- [27:08]
Congressman Jim Jordan
So the short answer is, we don't know what the FBI did with the laptop. We don't know if they validate it. We don't. They looked at it. We don't know if we did. They confirmed it. They don't. With we don't know.
- [27:17]
Jim Jordan
We know they haven't prosecuted anyone.
- [27:19]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Right. But we do know they were telling Big Tech to be on the lookout for those specific things, which suggest they probably did know or they probably did some invest. Maybe they didn't, but they were sure.
- [27:34]
Ben Shapiro
That you guys, either of you. And I'm asking this because this is the fun part about doing the podcast. Is there any scenario in your mind, you've been in Washington a long time. You worked over at the Supreme Court. You've had a career law enforcement. You know where they. If you get a laptop of the FBI that you think is a former vice president sons that has damning information on. Is there any chance you just shelve it? Or wouldn't you just out of pure curiosity, be like, we need to go through this to know what's out there?
- [28:01]
Jim Jordan
If you're real law enforcement, of course you would.
- [28:03]
Ben Shapiro
Yeah, but. But even if you're just a TMZ.
- [28:06]
Jim Jordan
Type person, if you're a hardcore partner partisan who hates Donald Trump.
- [28:14]
Congressman Jim Jordan
This is.
- [28:15]
Jim Jordan
The same entity that not long after decided to go undercover targeting the Republican nominee for president. That's an extraordinary situation. Look, I'm an alumnus of the Department of Justice. I was an associate deputy Attorney general under George W. Bush. Look, you might have a situation where the evidence was so compelling you had to investigate the nominee for the other party, but that threshold should be really high now. Not so high that you get a laptop full of incriminating information that he. He is getting. The big guy is getting 10% from communist China. All right, now you're starting to hit a threshold of we got to figure out if this is real. But the FBI and doj, what I think happened is hardcore partisans burrowed into senior career positions and were comfortable treating the machinery of law enforcement as a tool to protect their friends and attack their enemies. Do you agree with that?
- [29:23]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Well, I also think it's one thing if they get that laptop in October 2020. Yeah, that'd be a different story because you work there. So there's a window of time where you sort of like, okay, we're getting in that. That really critical political time when America's deciding who's gonna do we really want to impact the election with information we bring out. So that's one thing. But this was 10 months before that.
- [29:46]
Jim Jordan
And by the way, December 2020, DOJ, right before the 2020 election had, or the had information about Joe Biden, rather, the 2022 election had information about Joe Biden's classified documents. And they did nothing with it. They didn't leak it, they kept it secret.
- [30:00]
Congressman Jim Jordan
But 91 days before that election, they did raid President Trump's home. So outside that 90 day window, I guess 91 days, you raid President Trump's home, you're good to go. But you find something within a month or so, I guess it was a couple weeks. A week before the election, they don't do anything. But with the laptop, it's 10 months. It's 10 months before the election. I think you probably check it out, but who knows what they did?
- [30:28]
Jim Jordan
So one of the things that I think is striking, and you mentioned it before, is the interrelation between the federal government and Big Tech in the media, because they're all intertwined in a way that, frankly, is not natural. The media ought to be a watchdog. They ought to be. The phrase that back when we had journalists that they used to be proud of is, you know, shining a light and holding those in power accountable.
- [31:07]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yeah.
- [31:08]
Jim Jordan
But what is really stunning that we've seen through your investigation, that we've seen through the Twitter files, is how willing Big Tech was to be the foot soldiers for the government and how willing the media was weekly meetings to be the foot soldiers for the government. You look at the hunter Biden. Not only did Big Tech suppress the story, but they punished the media and deplatformed the New York Post. So it was one after the other after the other.
- [31:38]
Congressman Jim Jordan
The visibility filtered anyone who was trying to talk about the story, share the story, link to the story. They did the visibility. Filtering is the fancy word Big Tech uses.
- [31:48]
Jim Jordan
Now, is that a normal thing for Big Tech to be acting at the behest of the, of the federal government, silencing people the federal government doesn't like?
- [31:59]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yeah, it's censor. What Jonathan Turley. Censorship by surrogate is what Professor Turley called it. So there's a template now. And it's scary because I actually think this is the biggest threat we face. We can recover from the crazy border policies, the crazy tax policies, spending policies, crime policies, energy policy. We can recover from all that. But if they destroy the First Amendment, you no longer have this amazing thing we call America the greatest country ever. So that's what and the template is always you will get. The left will tell a lie, the big media will report the lie, big tech will amplify the lie. And then if you try to tell the truth, they call you a racist, they call you names, they try to cancel you. And it's like what. That's now what's happened to our country and to debate and to the First Amendment. So yeah, it's not supposed to work that way. And it's why I really think what we're trying to do relative to the First Amendment, protect it, highlight where it's been abused is so important. And look at getting the facts out there, doing the oversight to get the facts out there, then looking at legislative remedies. What's legislation that we could pass that would actually help with the situation? And then finally, do we have to look at the appropriations process and say some of these agencies shouldn't be getting the money they're getting, at least not in the same way they're getting it now.
- [33:20]
Jim Jordan
So talk to us about FBI whistleblowers. And you've had a lot of FBI whistleblowers come to your committee. And by the way, I'll say if we've got FBI agents, FBI employees, DOJ employees who want to blow the whistle, come to Jim, come to my office. You will have the protections of law afforded to whistleblowers. And it's an important part of constitutional accountability. But talk to us about what you've seen from whistleblowers and what we can expect in the weeks and months ahead.
- [33:52]
Congressman Jim Jordan
We plan a hearing next week. We haven't got it officially scheduled yet, but that's what we're looking to do. We think we're going to have four of the whistleblowers come testify. We've had a couple dozen who've talked to us, we've interviewed half a dozen. And as I mentioned, I think in the last episode was a part one, I guess you call. Many of them have been retaliated against and it's really sad because what does that look like? So they paint that picture, take their security clearance.
- [34:20]
Ben Shapiro
Can you do your job without that?
- [34:21]
Congressman Jim Jordan
You can't. And then without your security clearance, you pretty much can't. And some of them just been forced to leave. We had one who is trying to get to, to, to, to get his firearms training records because he needs that for another job and they slow walked him on that. So it's just like, it's just time and issue after issue that, that we see with these, these guys in the.
- [34:47]
Ben Shapiro
FBI you can't do your job without your security clearance.
- [34:50]
Congressman Jim Jordan
You gotta have that.
- [34:50]
Ben Shapiro
A lot of people outside of Washington may not realize that. That's like taking your driver's license away from you. And you're a big rig driver. You can't make a living.
- [34:57]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yep, yep. It's really, really tough. And so it's vindictive, too.
- [35:03]
Ben Shapiro
Yeah. It's trying to crush you financially and ruin your life.
- [35:06]
Jim Jordan
It's, it's. How dare you talk to Congress about what we're doing.
- [35:12]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yeah.
- [35:13]
Jim Jordan
And it's also illegal.
- [35:14]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yeah, no, it is.
- [35:16]
Jim Jordan
You can't retaliate against whistleblower.
- [35:17]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Statute is very clear. So. And like I said, one of, one of these whistleblowers is. Wanted to talk to us about the school board issue and what they're, what they were trying to do to parents, given us the name of the education ed officials, the threat tag label that was put on the 20 summon parents. By the way, we put our report on this. None of these parents were charged with anything. Only one went to a full investigation, and no one's been charged with anything. Many of these places, the US Attorney would get this memorandum, they do a little thing and they're like, this is baloney. This is ridiculous. Why are we doing this? It was all done for politics because they thought it was going to help Terry McAuliffe be the next governor of Virginia. And it turned out it backfired on them and helped Glenn Youngkin win. Yeah. Because you start telling moms and dads we think, remember Glenn Youngkin or excuse me, when Terry McCullough said, We don't think parents should be telling schools what to teach. And a bunch of moms said, I don't. I think we should. By the way, I know my kid's name. You don't know the kid's name. I think I should be involved.
- [36:12]
Jim Jordan
Sure.
- [36:12]
Congressman Jim Jordan
So that issue. So this is when the whistleblowers came to the Catholic memo. That's one of them. Whistleblower came forward.
- [36:20]
Jim Jordan
So I'll tell you, there was another FBI memo which we've talked about in Senate Judiciary Committee, where they identified signs of extremism and they had all sorts of things, including the Gadsden flag from the revolutionary wartime. But they also had the come and take it flag from Texas, which I.
- [36:40]
Ben Shapiro
Well, your boots are terrorist boots because.
- [36:42]
Congressman Jim Jordan
They have that flag.
- [36:43]
Jim Jordan
So I wear those boots just about every day in the Senate that has the come and take it flag on the back. And as you know, I pulled the boot off and slammed it on the bench and said, look, let me self report right now. I'm wearing two of these symbols.
- [36:57]
Ben Shapiro
You might want oxas off right now.
- [36:58]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Just saying.
- [37:00]
Jim Jordan
You're not touching my boots. Stay away from my damn boots. I just got them back.
- [37:04]
Ben Shapiro
Charity for charity.
- [37:05]
Jim Jordan
I haven't had them for six months. I just had them resold. So they're Lucchese. They're beautiful.
- [37:09]
Congressman Jim Jordan
They look better now.
- [37:11]
Jim Jordan
Lucchese factory in El Paso. I had worn holes in them, so I had to send them to the factory. It takes, like, five months to resell them. They come back as brand new Booth.
- [37:18]
Congressman Jim Jordan
That's cool.
- [37:19]
Jim Jordan
They do a really nice job.
- [37:20]
Ben Shapiro
That's awesome. I want to ask you one last question, and that deals with the issue, I think of. There's fatigue with a lot of Americans now. They hear you're doing investigations. They listen to part one, and if you missed it, go back and listen to it.
- [37:36]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yeah.
- [37:36]
Ben Shapiro
They listen to part two.
- [37:37]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yeah.
- [37:38]
Ben Shapiro
And they go, I'm mad as hell. I'm frustrated with my government. What does success look like? And I'm talking about from accountability standpoint, from your investigations, because they don't feel like there's accountability. They feel like the deck is stacked against us now. They feel like we're always losing. And I say this because I have listeners I talk to every day. They are sick and tired of feeling like there's two systems of justice and that there is two. There's a double standard. And they feel like we never win. And their definition of winning, I want to be clear, is something they almost step over themselves over and over again trying to explain this to me. They say, ben, I want you understand I'm not wanting to put people in jail, because on the other side of the aisle, I just want there to be accountability for people when you do break laws. And when they see the Biden crime family, they see what's going on, they see what's happening. The FBI and the DOJ and this letter, they just want to know they live in a world where there is laws that matter.
- [38:35]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yeah.
- [38:35]
Ben Shapiro
There is right and wrong, and what does success look like for you? And before you answer that, I want to lastly tell you about our friends at Chalk. If you're a guy and you're getting a little older and you feel like you're losing some of that strength and vitality that you're used to, and you're sick and tired of that fatigue and weakness. You just feel tired. You don't feel like you have the same energy you used to have. That's where you need to check out chalk choq.com they are here to help real men just like you boost your testosterone levels up to 20% over 90 days. Now I've been taking the chalk male vitality stack. I can tell you it works. You're going to get your focus back. You're going to get, get rid of that fatigue. Just feeling tired part of just getting older. Testosterone levels have dropped off chart wise in this country and chalk can help you get that back. Maximize your masculinity. Boost those levels up to 20 over 90 days. Go online to chalk choq.com that's choq.com use a promo code Ben. You'll get 35 off any chalk subscriptions for life chalk cho q.com promo code Ben for 35 off Congressman. It's fatiguing.
- [39:49]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yeah, no it is. Step one, just stopping any bad behaviors. Getting the facts on the table. We're committed to doing that. It's part of our constitutional duty when we, when we do oversight. Success in the end is if we can, if we can do it in a way that protects the first. We're going to pass some legislation out of the house. Be tough to get through the senate with the Democrats in control. We're going to look in the appropriations process. Those are all things we got to do. But in the end, if we can get respect back in this country for the first amendment and stop the censorship that's going on. I tell folks I was talking earlier today to a group you think about the last couple years. Every right we enjoy under the first amendment has been assaulted.
- [40:27]
Jim Jordan
Yep.
- [40:27]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Right to practice your faith, right to assemble, petition to government, press speech. Everyone's been assaulted. There were places during COVID where Democrat governors and Democrat mayors wouldn't let people Americans go to church on Sunday. I spoke to them.
- [40:40]
Jim Jordan
Now you could go to an antifa riot or black lives matter.
- [40:42]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yeah. Bash windows in every major urban area around this country with your right to assemble. I spoke to the New Mexico. I think I've told you this, senator. The New Mexico Republican party in Amarillo, Texas because they had to go to Texas to get the freedom to assemble. This is two years ago. The freedom to assemble because a crazy democrat governor wouldn't let them assemble in their own state. And you just go right down. But the most important liberty we have.
- [41:05]
Ben Shapiro
They should have named it an antifa rally and they could have had it.
- [41:09]
Congressman Jim Jordan
The most important right we have.
- [41:11]
Jim Jordan
I've said that every church service should have just called themselves a protest against the devil.
- [41:15]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Yeah, there we go. But your Right to speak is the most important. You can't talk. You can't practice your faith. You can't share your faith. You don't have the freedom of press, freedom to petition, freedom to assemble. You just don't have it. And that's what they're coming after. And that's what we got to defend. And if we can protect that, that'll be a good thing.
- [41:29]
Jim Jordan
Well, and tell folks about your investigation into the corrupt prosecution of Alvin Bragg targeting Donald Trump. Because when you talk about weaponization. We've talked at length in this podcast.
- [41:42]
Ben Shapiro
Yeah.
- [41:43]
Jim Jordan
How utterly frivolous this case is. But you've engaged very closely on it. So tell us what you're doing on that.
- [41:48]
Congressman Jim Jordan
Alvin Bragg used federal tax dollars to indict a former president for no crime. And then when we wanted to talk to One of the DA's who worked for him, who had left over a year ago and wrote a book solely on this subject, he took us to court. And the federal judge just, the court just gave us a decision a couple weeks ago. It says, you're wrong, Mr. Bragg. The judiciary Committee gets to have a deposition with Mr. Pomerantz. He'll be coming in this Friday for.
- [42:16]
Jim Jordan
And what does he say in his book?
- [42:18]
Congressman Jim Jordan
He says, oh, he talks about. It's really interesting because you talk about the old line, show me the man, I'll find you the crime. They have, like 20 different things. They were looking at President Trump. They looked at the 40 Wall street property, the Seven Springs Resort, the Jupiter golf course, his tax returns, his apartment that he lived in on the top of Trump Tower, his financial statements, all his stuff with Mazars. They looked at his kids. I mean, you just go down the list. And then, of course, they looked at the Stormy Daniels issue. Like, I mean, and I'm forgetting some. It's crazy, all the things they looked at to try to get this guy. But we're going to ask him about, we're going to ask him about things he said in the book. You know, some of the things in there.
- [43:04]
Jim Jordan
You know, in a lot of ways, it's amazing. You do that kind of deep dive almost anyone. If you have a team of prosecutors combing through everything you've ever filed with the irs, my guess is most people can find something, and especially a billionaire real estate developer. If you brought 100 billionaire real estate developers, went through all their taxes, I'd be surprised if you could find one. You couldn't indict 50 for something.
- [43:29]
Congressman Jim Jordan
They looked at him. They were looking at when he bought the post office here and turned it into the hotel here in D.C. i mean, just on it was ridiculous. So, yeah, that is happening. But again, I think it just shows, you know, the DA in Manhattan, I think the DA in Georgia's gonna have another crazy case.
- [43:49]
Jim Jordan
And by the way, Alvin Bragg is a Soros da. George Soros spent over a million bucks to get him elected. This is, this goes back to weaponization. You want to talk about the power of putting your guy in control of law enforcement, whether they're targeting Donald Trump or targeting you as a mom or dad, it's the same principle, which is we will use the government to crush our enemies.
- [44:11]
Ben Shapiro
I hope that everybody will take this episode, take the last one, share it out on social media, wherever you are. Thank you for spending some quality time with us. I think there's a lot of Americans are going to really appreciate the fact that we just took a deep breath, went back and spent this time explaining it because it's so hard to get a concept of where we are if you're doing it in three or four minutes on tv. So thanks for taking the time and being here. It's been a fun thing. Make sure you share this podcast with your family and friends. Hit that subscribe button. We do this show three days a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday. So make sure you do that. Also writes 5 star review wherever you listen to your podcast. It helps us reach new people and we'll see you back here in a couple of days.