Democrats Throw Biden Under The Bus

Summary

Podcast Summary: Democrats Throw Biden Under The Bus

Podcast: The 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson
Episode: Democrats Throw Biden Under The Bus
Release Date: January 25, 2020
Hosts: Michael Knowles and Senator Ted Cruz
Duration Covered: 00:00 – 31:04

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Introduction and Podcast Success

The episode begins with Michael Knowles welcoming Senator Ted Cruz to discuss the ongoing impeachment trial related to President Trump. Knowles congratulates Cruz on the success of his podcast, "Verdict with Ted Cruz," noting its rapid ascent into the top 10 podcasts globally after just two episodes (00:00 – 01:27). Cruz humorously shares a personal anecdote about attempting to share his podcast success with his daughter, highlighting the show's growing popularity.

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Impeachment Trial Overview

Knowles shifts the focus to the central topic: the impeachment trial. He introduces the complex issues surrounding Burisma, Ukraine, Hunter Biden, and their connection to the impeachment proceedings (01:27 – 03:35). Cruz asserts that House Democrats have effectively undermined President Biden by discrediting the investigation into Burisma, a Ukrainian natural gas company, labeling it as baseless and politically motivated (02:02 – 04:28).

Key Quote:

• Ted Cruz (02:16): "The House Democrats effectively threw Joe Biden under the bus."

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Burisma and Hunter Biden’s Involvement

Cruz delves deeper into the Burisma affair, explaining its origins and Hunter Biden’s role. Burisma was established by a Ukrainian oligarch who also served as the Minister of Natural Resources, facilitating corruption through granting natural gas licenses (04:28 – 05:34). Hunter Biden, despite lacking relevant expertise, was appointed to Burisma’s board in May 2014, shortly after his business partner, Devon Archer, joined the board and the company faced significant financial scrutiny from the UK's Serious Fraud Bureau (05:34 – 08:00).

Key Quotes:

• Michael Knowles (05:34): "Burisma is not a natural gas company in the way that you think of, like ExxonMobil."
• Ted Cruz (07:36 – 08:00): "Hunter Biden was getting nearly 10 times as much as a director of ExxonMobil gets in cash compensation."

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Nepotism and Conflict of Interest

The discussion highlights the nepotistic nature of Hunter Biden's appointment, citing his admission that his position was due to his father's influence. Cruz references statements from Hunter Biden and associates, including John Kerry’s stepson, Chris Hines, who distanced himself from Burisma, labeling the association as "unacceptable" (08:00 – 10:29).

Key Quotes:

• Ted Cruz (09:23): "It's obvious he was put on the board because daddy was vice president."
• Chris Hines (10:29): "Working with Burisma was unacceptable."

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Joe Biden’s Role and Potential Conflict of Interest

Cruz outlines how Vice President Joe Biden pressured Ukraine to fire Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin, who was investigating Burisma, in exchange for $1 billion in loan guarantees. This timeline suggests a quid pro quo arrangement, mirroring the allegations against President Trump (10:29 – 15:16).

Key Quote:

• Joe Biden (Recorded Statement, 14:05): "I'm telling you, you're not getting a billion dollars. Well, son of a bitch got fired."

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Media and House Democrats’ Stance

Cruz criticizes mainstream media outlets like The Washington Post and The New York Times for their coverage of the Bidens and Burisma, accusing them of echoing Democratic narratives without acknowledging evidence of corruption (15:16 – 12:11). He also points out that House Democrats have blocked the investigation into Burisma’s corruption, preventing key witnesses from testifying (21:04 – 21:56).

Key Quote:

• Ted Cruz (16:17): "If an investigator sees the son of the vice president of the United States is part of the management of a company, that investigator will be uncomfortable pushing the case forward."

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Comparison with Trump’s Actions

The conversation draws parallels between Biden’s actions in Ukraine and the impeachment charges against President Trump, arguing that both involve leveraging foreign aid for political gain. Cruz emphasizes that the Democrats are hypocritically accusing Trump of actions similar to those they themselves have engaged in (22:19 – 23:35).

Key Quotes:

• Ted Cruz (22:19): "What did he do because his son was getting a million dollars?"
• Michael Knowles (23:22): "The Democrats are accusing the president of doing what they themselves did."

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Senate Proceedings and Future Steps

Cruz discusses the upcoming Senate vote on whether to call additional witnesses, advocating for reciprocity in witness testimony to ensure a fair trial. He criticizes the House’s one-sided approach and underscores the importance of presenting all evidence, including the recorded video of Biden discussing the prosecutor’s firing (25:00 – 30:43).

Key Quote:

• Ted Cruz (29:21 – 30:43): "The Democrats are accusing the president of withholding aid to Ukraine. Joe Biden did directly withhold or threaten to withhold a billion dollars in loan guarantees to Ukraine."

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Conclusion and Call to Action

The episode concludes with a brief mailbag segment where a listener questions the possibility of a Republican pledge to call Hunter Biden if Democrats push for more witnesses. Cruz responds by discussing the potential outcomes of the upcoming vote and reiterates the importance of fairness in the impeachment process. Both hosts encourage listeners to subscribe and support the podcast to combat misinformation surrounding the impeachment trial (30:43 – 31:04).

Key Quote:

• Ted Cruz (30:43): "The Democrats, to coin a line, they can't handle the truth."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Ted Cruz (02:16): "The House Democrats effectively threw Joe Biden under the bus."
• Michael Knowles (05:34): "Burisma is not a natural gas company in the way that you think of, like ExxonMobil."
• Ted Cruz (07:36): "Hunter Biden was getting nearly 10 times as much as a director of ExxonMobil gets in cash compensation."
• Ted Cruz (09:23): "It's obvious he was put on the board because daddy was vice president."
• Joe Biden (14:05): "I'm telling you, you're not getting a billion dollars. Well, son of a bitch got fired."
• Ted Cruz (16:17): "If an investigator sees the son of the vice president of the United States is part of the management of a company, that investigator will be uncomfortable pushing the case forward."
• Ted Cruz (22:19): "What did he do because his son was getting a million dollars?"
• Ted Cruz (29:21): "The Democrats are accusing the president of withholding aid to Ukraine. Joe Biden did directly withhold or threaten to withhold a billion dollars in loan guarantees to Ukraine."
• Ted Cruz (30:43): "The Democrats, to coin a line, they can't handle the truth."

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Final Thoughts

The episode provides a detailed critique of House Democrats' impeachment efforts, focusing on alleged corruption involving Hunter Biden and Joe Biden's actions in Ukraine. Cruz argues that Democrats are hypocritically targeting President Trump for actions they themselves have engaged in, emphasizing the need for a fair and balanced impeachment process. The discussion is rich with specific timelines, quotes, and references to media coverage, offering listeners a comprehensive perspective on the impeachment trial's complexities.

Transcript

[Michael Knowles]

Senator, let me get this straight. House Democrats are impeaching the president for threatening to withhold money from Ukraine if they didn't investigate Joe Biden for threatening to withhold money from Ukraine if they didn't stop investigating his son for corruption? Is that about right?

[Ted Cruz]

That's about right.

[Michael Knowles]

We'll get into it. This is Verdict with Ted Cruz. Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruz. I'm Michael Knowles, joined by the man himself, straight from the Capitol and the impeachment trial. Senator, I want to get into Burisma, Ukraine, Hunter Biden, this really opaque story at the heart of impeachment. Before I do that, though, I want to brag and congratulate you on becoming a rising podcast star because this podcast, Verdict with Ted Cruz, is now in the top 10 podcasts in the world after just two episodes. Congratulations.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, thank you. And thank you to the great job you're doing and thank you to everyone who subscribed and downloaded, I will say, driving from the Capitol over here, I was talking to my daughter Caroline, who's 11, and I was kind of excited about it, and I tried to brag to her about it and she's like, dad, I really don't care. So it didn't. I don't know that 11 year olds are our target audience.

[Michael Knowles]

You know, maybe 11 year olds are not our target audience. I think the real thing we can brag about is not even just being in the top 10 in the world. We're beating Ben Shapiro. That's a big win. Personally, I have to text him. Anyway, talk about turning lemons into lemonade for this absolutely tedious impeachment trial. Really? Maybe we can get something out of this, because I think people's eyes are glazing over when we talk about impeachment and Burisma and Hunter Biden and Ukraine, and it's just so opaque. So I want you to break that down first. Did anything significant happen today?

[Ted Cruz]

So I actually think today was a very significant day in terms of this impeachment trial because today the House Democrats effectively threw Joe Biden under the bus. I don't know if they did so deliberately, but that's the effect of what they did today.

[Michael Knowles]

How so?

[Ted Cruz]

Well, they doubled down on something they had started yesterday in Adam Schiff's opening statement. The House Democrats, the House managers, they built their entire case on the proposition that investigating Burisma, this Ukrainian natural gas company, is completely unfounded, completely without merit, is a sham, is bogus. There's no basis whatsoever.

[Michael Knowles]

Burisma is the Ukrainian natural gas company that Joe Biden's son worked for that.

[Ted Cruz]

Was on the board of, that he.

[Michael Knowles]

Was on the board of. And we'll get into all that. They're saying that any call to investigate this well known corrupt natural gas company is baseless and it's just a way for President Trump to get a leg up on Joe Biden in the election.

[Ted Cruz]

So, yes, yesterday Adam Schiff began in his opening laying out that standard that it was a fraud, that it was a sham, it was bogus.

[Michael Knowles]

And today, and Adam Schiff, I don't want to be too slow here, he.

[Ted Cruz]

Is the lead House manager for the Democrats.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes. Do you know the reason? I have to clarify who he is. There was just a question on Jeopardy. Where they asked who this man was and it was a picture of Adam Schiff. Nobody got it right. So Adam Schiff is leading the impeachment charge in the Senate trial right now.

[Ted Cruz]

That is absolutely right. So he laid this out yesterday. Today, the House manager spent I think over an hour trying to make the case that there was no reason to investigate Burisma, that the only possible reason to want to investigate is for nefarious political purposes, because you want to smear your political opponent. And I got to tell you, that is, number one, ridiculous. It's just ridiculous on its face. And actually, this show, we're going to talk a lot about the substance of it. But number two, the consequence of that is the media's got to talk about Burisma as much as they don't want to. They've got to talk about the evidence of Joe Biden's corruption. But it also means that when President Trump's lawyers get to present their case starting on Saturday, that right at the heart of it is now going to be this is the evidence of Joe Biden and Burisma's corruption.

[Michael Knowles]

So the Democrats, by talking about why we don't need to talk about Burisma, have inadvertently made us all talk about.

[Ted Cruz]

Burisma and the standard they've set. That, that there's, it's completely baseless, completely meritless, it's a sham, it's bogus, is absurd. So let's walk through some of the specifics and details and we're going to walk through in a little bit of, a little bit of real detail because I think it matters. What is Brisma? Well, Lieutenant Colonel Vindman, who's one of the sort of star witnesses for the Democrats, Vindman described it as, quote, a corrupt entity. Now why did he call it that? Let me give you a Little bit of the history of Burisma. It's the biggest natural gas company in Ukraine. It grew under an oligarch, one of these Ukrainian billionaires, who was at the same time the minister of natural resources. So he was granting his company natural gas licenses and then getting rich. And it became the richest company, the richest natural gas company because he was the government official in charge of deciding who gets the license.

[Michael Knowles]

That's nice work if you can get it. So Burisma is not a natural gas company in the way that you think of, like ExxonMobil.

[Ted Cruz]

Not remotely. Burisma was built on, hey, our founder is in charge of giving away the licenses, which means they knew a lot about buying government influence because that's what they were built on.

[Michael Knowles]

It's crooked from the very beginning.

[Ted Cruz]

Exactly. Right now, Fast forward early 2014. Early 2014, Joe Biden's vice president, Joe Biden stepped forward and said he would be the point person for the Obama administration on Ukraine. He became the face of Ukraine. He was talking to its president over and over again. He was the focal point by his own. By his own description. Then April. So this is early 2014 by Biden's the point. Then in April, guy named Devin Archer, whose business partners with Hunter Biden, Joe Biden's son, gets named to the board of Burisma.

[Michael Knowles]

So you've got. This is not Hunter Biden. This is Hunter Biden's business partner and associate.

[Ted Cruz]

And by the way, he's also business partners with John Kerry's stepson. John Kerry is the Secretary of State.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm seeing a lot of swampiness in this whole.

[Ted Cruz]

It gets worse. So this guy Devon Archer gets on the board. Okay, that is on April 13. On April 28, Britain's Serious Fraud Bureau freezes 23 million in accounts controlled by the oligarchy in charge of Burisma. That's just a few days after Devon Archer is on the board. And then on May 12, Hunter Biden gets named to the board. May 12.

[Michael Knowles]

So Hunter Biden gets named to the board of Burisma less than three weeks after Britain's fraud department freezes Burisma's assets.

[Ted Cruz]

Yep. And let's talk about. All right, so who is Hunter Biden? So he has zero expertise in oil and gas. He's not a geologist. He's not a geophysicist. He has no background that anyone knows of in Ukraine, doesn't know anything about it.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't think he speaks the language.

[Ted Cruz]

There's no. You know how much they paid him?

[Michael Knowles]

I know, it's a large amount, but I. How much?

[Ted Cruz]

So actually you don't know how much he paid him because nobody knows how much they paid him. They paid him anywhere from some of the reporting has said 50,000amonth. So the baseline that we think they started him at was $600,000 a year.

[Michael Knowles]

But that's not the limit. How much, how high could it have been?

[Ted Cruz]

It went up to $83,333 a month, which is a million bucks a year. Now, that's a lot of money.

[Michael Knowles]

That's good work.

[Ted Cruz]

To put that in perspective, do you know what a director of Exxon Mobil.

[Michael Knowles]

Makes a million dollars a year?

[Ted Cruz]

Cash compensation, 110,000. Hunter Biden was getting nearly 10 times as much as a director of ExxonMobil gets in cash compensation.

[Michael Knowles]

And I think it requires a little bit more in the way of a resume to get on the board of ExxonMobil than Hunter Biden had to get on Burisma's board.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, and we actually know exactly why Hunter Biden was on the board. And for that, let me not tell you. Let's take it in his own words. Listen to what Hunter Biden said when he was asked why he got put on board.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes, Hunter Biden gave an interview not that long ago where he admitted that the reason he got on the board was nepotism. If your last name wasn't Biden, do you think he would have been asked to be on the board of Burisma? I don't know. I don't know.

[Ted Cruz]

Probably not. I don't think that there's a lot of things that would have happened in my life that if my last name wasn't Biden.

[Michael Knowles]

He said the part out loud that he was not supposed to say if they wanted to hide this corruption.

[Ted Cruz]

But look, it's obvious he was put on the board because daddy was vice president.

[Michael Knowles]

Right.

[Ted Cruz]

Let me tell you what the head of Ukraine's Anti Corruption Action center said. And this is a quote. If an investigator sees the son of the vice president of the United States is part of the management of a company, that investigator will be uncomfortable pushing the case forward. That's why Hunter Biden was on that board.

[Michael Knowles]

Right.

[Ted Cruz]

Now, I mentioned that Hunter Biden was business partners with John Kerry's stepson, guy named Chris Hines. Chris Hines actually cut his business ties with Hunter Biden because of, and this is Chris Hines own words, lack of judgment. Hunter Biden's lack of judgment. And when his other partner, Devin Archer, joined the Burisma board, He said working with Burisma was unacceptable.

[Michael Knowles]

Unacceptable.

[Ted Cruz]

So John Kerry stepson says, uh, I ain't gonna be a part of this. I don't know what you guys are doing, but I'm not part of this.

[Michael Knowles]

John Kerry's stepson, who's an associate of Hunter Biden, says, this is too far. You shouldn't do it. Actually, in that same interview that we just heard from Hunter Biden, Hunter Biden admits that he had a conversation with his father at the time when he joined the Burisma board. And his father, Joe Biden said, you better know what you're doing.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, here's what the Washington Post said he was doing. The Washington Post reported that, quote, the appointment of the vice president's son to a Ukrainian oil board looks nepotistic at best, nefarious at worst.

[Michael Knowles]

So that's the Washington Post.

[Ted Cruz]

That's the Washington Post.

[Michael Knowles]

It's not exactly a conservative outlet. I saw another headline. This was from the New York Times. I wrote it down. The New York Times headline, 2015, Joe Biden, his son and the case against a Ukrainian Oligarch. Even the New York Times admitting this is an oligarchs company. It's crooked, and it involves the Bidens.

[Ted Cruz]

Now, it'll be interesting to see tomorrow if the New York Times or Washington Post are willing to remember that they wrote those stories. Because, you know, they've shown a real pattern, especially the Times, of just echoing whatever the House Democrats say. So they may suddenly forget all about this evidence of corruption. But, you know, it wasn't just the Washington Post, New York Times, it was also members of the Obama administration. So when Hunter Biden was named to the board, Obama's special envoy for energy policy, quote, raised the matter with Biden.

[Michael Knowles]

With Joe Biden.

[Ted Cruz]

With Joe Biden because he was so concerned about the conflict of interest. Not only that, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Ken, another one of the Democrats star witnesses at this impeachment hearing, he testified that he, quote, raised his concerns that he had heard that Hunter Biden was on the board of a company owned by somebody. The U.S. government had spent money trying to get tens of millions of dollars back. And that could create a perception of a conflict of interest.

[Michael Knowles]

You don't say. I think that's the understatement of the year.

[Ted Cruz]

Do you know what he was told? What? When he raised it? He was told that the vice. The vice president, Vice President Joe Biden didn't have time to deal with it.

[Michael Knowles]

I bet he didn't.

[Ted Cruz]

So you've got Obama appointees Saying, wait, this is kind of a problem, that this guy's on the board of Burisma.

[Michael Knowles]

So here's what I want to know, because obviously there's so many people. It's such a swampy story. It's. It's corrupt. It's so obviously corrupt. The whole arrangement with Hunter Biden, the whole company is corrupt. When the Obama administration raises the concerns, which we've seen them do in writing, do we get an investigation into corruption here?

[Ted Cruz]

Well, we get exactly the opposite, which is that Joe Biden publicly comes out and calls for the firing of the prosecutor that was investigating Burisma.

[Michael Knowles]

Of course. And actually, because it's the Bidens, because they just can't control what they say. Joe Biden bragged about this last year at a Council on Foreign Relations event. He said in no uncertain terms, he went over there and he threatened to withhold money to Ukraine unless they fired the prosecutor investigating his son for corruption. Here's Joe Biden.

[C]

I remember going over convincing our team, our others, to convincing that we should be providing for loan guarantees. And I went over, I guess the 12th, 13th time to Kiev, and I was supposed to announce that there was another billion dollar loan guarantee. And I had gotten a commitment from Poroshenko and from Yatsenyuk that they would take action against the state prosecutor. And they didn't. So they said they had. They were walking out to press conference, said, no. I said, I'm not going to. We're not going to give you the billion dollars. They said, you have no authority. You're not the president. The president said. I said, call him. I said, I'm telling you, you're not getting a billion dollars. I said, you're not getting a billion. I'm going to be leaving here. And I think it was, what, six hours? I looked. I said, I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor's not fired, you're not getting the money. Well, son of a bitch got fired, and they put in place someone who was solid.

[Michael Knowles]

You know what that sounds like to me, Senator? That sounds like a quid pro quo. That sounds exactly like what the Democrats are accusing President Trump of doing in this impeachment trial.

[Ted Cruz]

As Joe Biden put it, son of a bitch, they fired him. Look, it was. When you look at the timeline, and I'll tell you, I'm tweeting out tonight a timeline, a detailed timeline that is worth looking at, it's worth printing out. I'll be tweeting it from Ted Cruz, but I'll say, you should See the timeline and also that video. If you haven't watched the video of Joe Biden bragging about getting this prosecutor fired, you need to watch the video. Cuz the news does not want to show that video.

[Michael Knowles]

It's even worse than that because I hadn't really looked over this case in a while. All of the details about it, all of the videos, all of the timeline. What the mainstream media and what the House Democrats are telling us is that this allegation of corruption and the Bidens and Burisma has been debunked.

[Ted Cruz]

Debunked, frivolous, a sham. Let me walk through the timeline quickly. I'm go back through it. But it's worth seeing these dates one after another.

[Michael Knowles]

Encourage you to do that because it's so many names, it's so many dates. Like all things that are corrupt, it's so confusing. I think what the House Democrats are relying on is how confusing the whole thing is so that we don't pay attention to it so we ignore the corruption.

[Ted Cruz]

So it starts early 2014. Joe Biden is the point person for President Obama on Ukraine. April 13, 2014. Devon Archer, Hunter Biden's business partner, joins the board of Burisma. April 28, Britain's Serious Fraud Unit freezes 23 million for money laundering from the oligarch who founded Burisma. May 12. Just a couple of weeks later, Hunter Biden is named to the border Burisma. December 8th. The New York Times article says that the Prosecutor General Victor Shokin is investigating Burisma holdings and the oligarch in charge.

[Michael Knowles]

Victor Shokin, the prosecutor. This is the prosecutor that Joe Biden is going to wind up getting fired. Right.

[Ted Cruz]

And that House Democrats spent all day long attacking relentlessly today. Here's one, and we didn't mention this before. February 2, February 2, 2016, the oligarch's home is raided and his assets are seized. This is February 2nd. Joe Biden calls the president of Ukraine on February 11th, February 18th and February 19th. So three calls. A little over a week after the oligarch's home is raided and his assets are seized. February 21, Burisma's lobbyist contacts the State Department and says, hey, we want a meeting with the Deputy Secretary of State. And by the way, did I mention Hunter Biden's on our board? This is in writing.

[Michael Knowles]

So just to just to pause for a moment, what it sounds like here from all the Joe Biden phone calls, we're talking about the waning days here of the administration, what this sounds like to me is desperation.

[Ted Cruz]

It gets so Devin Archer. March 2nd. A week later, Devin Archer sits down and meets with John Kerry, the Secretary of State. Okay, this is the other. The other board member. Then on March 15, the Assistant Secretary of State calls for the prosecutor to be fired. Then on March 22, during a call with President Poroshenko, Vice President Biden calls for the prosecutor to be fired.

[Michael Knowles]

So you've. You've got the. A guy who's on Burisma's board.

[Ted Cruz]

Two guys on the board.

[Michael Knowles]

Two guys on the board.

[Ted Cruz]

You've got making millions of dollars.

[Michael Knowles]

Making millions of dollars. They then meet with the Obama administration, and then all of a sudden, you get people in the administration calling for the prosecutor who's investigating Burisma to be fired.

[Ted Cruz]

And then on March 31, Biden arrives in Ukraine. He's there personally, and he releases $1 billion in loan guarantees because the week earlier, they had fired the prosecutors as he demanded.

[Michael Knowles]

You get the quid pro quo.

[Ted Cruz]

He delivers on it entirely. Now, look, let me be clear. Do I know for a fact that Joe Biden was corrupt and in on the corruption? No. You know why I don't know for a fact? Because we don't have enough of the facts.

[Michael Knowles]

There's no investigation.

[Ted Cruz]

Nobody has investigated. Think about the Mueller probe. Think about the thousands and thousands of hours, the millions of dollars, the thousands of pages produced to investigate the president, to go after the president. And the position of the House Democrats is for anyone to say, hey, investigate this and see if there was corruption that is fraudulent and a sham. It is absurd.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm just trying to process all of this because you had two and a half years of the Mueller investigation into Russia based on very, very flimsy evidence that fell apart day by day over those two and a half years. Then you had the impeachment inquiry into Ukraine corruption by the Trump administration because President Trump suggested that Ukraine investigate the corruption of the past administration that we've just been talking about for 15 minutes. Yet the government has dedicated virtually no resources to investigating the actual corruption that is at the heart of this whole change.

[Ted Cruz]

It's worse than that. House Democrats blocked investigating it. So among the most absurd moments were today one of the House managers who was making the argument that there's no basis for investigating Burisma said, of the 17 witnesses we had, nobody testified that there was a reason to investigate Burisma. Now, number one, that's not true. A number of them said there was at least an appearance of conflict of interest. But number two, the reason they didn't have witnesses testifying to that is because the House Democrats blocked all the witnesses. When House Republicans tried to call them, they only called prosecution witnesses. They refused to call Hunter Biden. They refused to call Devon Archer. So they couldn't ask them, do you know, nobody has asked under oath a very simple question. So, Hunter, million bucks a year. What'd you do for that?

[Michael Knowles]

How'd you earn that money? Let me zoom out for a second here, because we now see incontrovertibly burisma, corrupt. Whatever deal landed Hunter Biden on the board, corrupt. The actions of the Obama administration sure do look corrupt. And even members of that administration said, this all has a really bad appearance to it. We don't want this sort of thing getting out.

[Ted Cruz]

And this all goes ultimately to Joe Biden. What did he do because his son was getting a million dollars? You know, in the opening statements yesterday, Jerry Nadler is one of the House managers who leads the House managers. He said, there are hundreds of thousands of companies in Ukraine. Why was Trump focused on this one? Well, because it was the only company that we know of that had the son of the US Vice president making a million dollars and impacting potentially US Policy. Look, Trump wasn't interested in the abstract in every form of corruption in Ukraine. It wasn't like he was worried about someone sticking up a 7 11. This is corruption in the United States. This is potential corruption of the vice president of the United States. And it is always legitimate. And in fact, it's the responsibility of the president to ensure you investigate serious corruption.

[Michael Knowles]

You know, just put simply, what it looks like from the outside is that the Democrats are accusing the president of doing what they themselves did.

[Ted Cruz]

That's exactly right. They're accusing the president of withholding aid to Ukraine. Joe Biden did directly withhold or threaten to withhold a billion dollars in loan guarantees to Ukraine.

[Michael Knowles]

And bragged about it on video.

[Ted Cruz]

And bragged about it on video. They're accusing the president, by the way. You know, one of their arguments is, well, you know, it's always improper to want to investigate a political rival. Really? Like the Obama administration did in 2016, sending in spies with wiretaps and tapping the phone and going after Donald Trump like they did it. By the way, we know from the inspector general report, based on all sorts of lies and deception from the FBI and doj. But they did that. They went after their political rival.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, then here's what I want to know.

[Ted Cruz]

Hold on. Final point. One of their talking points that they said over and over again today is Cover up, cover up, cover up. The Democrats are covering up Burisma like crazy. They don't want to ask the question. Why didn't they at least bring him in and ask the question, what did you do for the money? Why didn't they? Why don't they want to ask the question? Because they don't want anyone to know.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, here's what I want to know then. I've watched not as much of this impeachment trial as you have, because that's not possible, but I've watched most of it. Why is this not the only thing that the Trump team is talking about? Why is it that if you went outside right now and polled 100 people, probably one of them, if, if that many would have ever heard of Burisma?

[Ted Cruz]

Well, look, to be fair, the President was given no opportunity to call witnesses, no opportunity to cross examine witnesses in the House. So it was all a kangaroo court. It was all one sided. It was all just the Democrats, they covered up all the evidence of Burisma corruption. But in the House, we're in day two of three days of the House's never ending opening argument. So for two days, the President's lawyers have been sitting there silently, not allowed to speak. So they're going to speak finally on Saturday. And I hope and expect this to be a big, big part of what they say. What I hope to see, I hope to see the President's lawyers walking through each step of that timeline calmly, carefully. You know, the two clips we played on this show. I hope and expect to see the president's lawyer played both of those clips. And in fact, I'd like to see the Joe Biden son of a bitch clip played at least as much as the clips that the House managers have been playing over and over and over again. Till you want to run out and scream.

[Michael Knowles]

Of course. I mean, what it seems like to me, I had done some research into Burisma and Hunter Biden and all of this and I probably didn't know half of what we were just talking about tonight. I hope that burisma is the word that constantly is coming out there from Republicans, from the White House, from the President's defenders. It's just so much to digest. And yet, simply put, the facts of it seem so clear. You got a corrupt Ukrainian company, you got a corrupt son of Joe Biden, you've got a lot of evidence of corruption from the Obama administration. And then the minute that President Trump wants to investigate the corruption, they accuse him of doing what they did and they impeach him for it.

[Ted Cruz]

That is exactly right. And look, why did Joe Biden, he traveled to Ukraine over and over again, he jumped out front to lead and get this prosecutor fired. Why was he the point once he knew that his son was doing this, you know, it wouldn't have been that hard for Joe Biden to say, you know, I'm just going to recuse myself from Ukraine. I'm just not going to be involved. I'll let some, I'll let John Kerry worry about Ukraine. I'm not going to be involved. There's the whole rest of the world. You know, he could have easily done that. He made the choice to go forward even though he knew that his son was making a whole bunch of money. If that's not corruption, that's at a minimum a whole lot of basis to investigate and at least find out what was going on.

[Michael Knowles]

Right. We have to leave it there tonight. I think there is so much in that to digest, so much that people probably haven't heard of before. And yet that really ought to be the basis of what we're talking about, because that lies at the heart of impeachment.

[Ted Cruz]

It is the reason President Trump is innocent and it is the reason President Trump will be acquitted by the Senate is because a president has the authority to investigate corruption. And there was more than enough evidence of corruption to ask that it be investigated.

[Michael Knowles]

I want to get to one mailbag question at the very least. You know, we now have a mailbag email address. You can email mailbagirdictpodcast.com so email your questions in. We've been taking them on Twitter and.

[Ted Cruz]

You gotta make the pitch to subscribe and rate the podcast, you've absolutely got to do that.

[Michael Knowles]

When you go to verdictpodcast.com, of course, subscribe and it really helps us if you leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts. Please do that. We're so pleased to now be in the top 10 podcasts in the world. So let's try to push it even higher. Let's try to get the word out because I think there's a lot of misinformation, there's a lot of fake news going on on all the major networks when it comes to this impeachment trial. And the Senator is being gracious enough and hard working enough to come straight from the Capitol here in the dead of night. We're pushing one o'clock right now to get this information out. And I think it's very, very important we do that for the country and for the truth. So before we go, one mailbag question. All right, this is from Norman. Hi, Senator Cruz. And Michael, I'm a big fan of your verdict podcast. I have a question. Can Ted circulate a Republican pledge to call Hunter Biden if Democrats vote for more witnesses? I want to know who won't sign it. I want to know who the rhinos are. Vote them out.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, look, I appreciate that you're going to know. So next week we're going to vote. The first vote we're going to have is whether there need to be additional witnesses at all. And that's just a yes or no. If we vote no, if there are 51 senators who say we've got enough, we don't need additional witnesses, then we'll move to final judgment, the president will be acquitted and this thing will be over. So that's one outcome. If on the other hand, 51 senators say we want additional witnesses, then we're going to have debate and argue about who to call. The case I've been making to the Republican conference is the principle of reciprocity, which is we're not going to do a one sided show trial. If the prosecution gets a witness, the defense gets a witness, which means if the prosecution gets, say, John Bolton, who they've been talking about, then the defense ought to get Hunter Biden or whoever they want to call. And I got to say, I think there is widespread agreement, if not complete consensus in the Republican conference. But you'll see the vote next week, hopefully, if we go down that road.

[Michael Knowles]

Because in the House, you didn't get witnesses for both sides. It was all stacked for the Democrats. The President didn't get a single voice up there and, and the Senate Republicans are not wanting to make that mistake. They want it to be fair. Because I think, as we've heard tonight, the truth is very damning for the Democrat case and it seems to be pretty good for the president.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, look, the Democrats, to coin a line, they can't handle the truth.

[Michael Knowles]

But we can here on the show. So thank you very much, Senator Cruz. We will have even more tomorrow. In the meantime, I'm Michael Knowles. This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

[Ted Cruz]

This episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz is being brought to you by Jobs, Freedom and Security Pack, a political action committee dedicated to supporting conservative causes, organizations and candidates across the country. In 2022, Jobs, Freedom and Security PAC plans to donate to conservative candidates running for Congress and help the Republican Party across the nation.