← The 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson
The 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson
DeSantis OUT, Is Nikki Haley Next? War Stories from the Presidential Trail
00:43:16
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- [00:01]
Ben Ferguson
Senator, good to be with you in person this week. For everyone listening. We do one of our shows a week, usually on video. So you can watch this on YouTube or on X or on Facebook. Make sure you follow us there. Make sure you follow us on YouTube and you can watch this episode as well. I want to get in first into the big news as we got here to film this, Ron DeSantis, not only did he drop out, but he's endorsed Donald Trump for president. Your initial reaction to that? Is that the right decision, the right time to do it early on?
- [00:30]
Ted Cruz
Well, listen, it is big news. I will say it's not surprising. You and I talked about this in our pod last week. As you know, last week I endorsed Donald Trump immediately following the Iowa caucus. And the reason I did that is the results of the Iowa caucus were clear. They were decisive. And what I said that next day is this primary is over. Donald Trump will be the Republican nominee. I thought that was clear from the Results of Iowa. DeSantis. It was clear that DeSantis was going to drop out. We didn't know that it would necessarily be on Sunday, but we knew it would be soon. He did not have a path going forward. He did not have a path to victory. He recognized that once you don't have a path to victory, I think the right thing to do is to drop out. That's what he did. At this point, it is a two person race between Trump and Nikki Haley. And we've got the New Hampshire primary coming up right now. As I said, I think this primary is over, but New Hampshire might represent a speed bump. New Hampshire over history has at times been contrary. Haley and Donald Trump are polling basically neck and neck in New Hampshire. I think it is entirely possible we see a close outcome in New Hampshire. I don't think it is impossible that Nikki Haley wins New Hampshire. She's within two points of him right now. Yeah, but whether it is close or whether Haley wins New Hampshire or whether Trump wins New Hampshire, I don't think it makes the hill of beans of difference. If Trump wins, the race is over that instant. If Haley wins, the race is over shortly thereafter because after New Hampshire, the race moves on to South Carolina. Nikki Haley is a former governor of South Carolina, but Trump has a dominating lead in South Carolina. Trump is is going to win South Carolina by double digits.
- [02:21]
Ben Ferguson
And that hurts her more, you think because it is her home state. It's kind of like what Al Gore lost, Tennessee, for example. If you lose your home state, it's not going to go well, for you.
- [02:30]
Ted Cruz
Well, and especially in a primary. Remember, Gore lost Tennessee in the general election, so there was nothing to happen after that. In this instance, losing your home state in a primary is crushing. You need to be able to win your home state. I don't see any way that Nikki Haley is going to win South Carolina. And right after South Carolina or the super primary, the Super Tuesday states that are predominantly Southern states, in all of those, Trump has a big, big lead. What we've got playing out right now is Nikki Haley has become the moderate establishment candidate. So anyone. And typically in a Republican presidential primary, about 30% of the voters self identify as establishment moderates. That means 70% do not. @ this point, Nikki is clearly owning the establishment moderate lane. And part of the reason why it is possible that she wins in New Hampshire is New Hampshire is a state that has a lot of independence. Now, independence in New Hampshire can vote in either primary. They can show up on primary day and say, I want to vote Democrat or I want to vote Republican. And so they can choose that day. And so independents can really influence the outcome of the New Hampshire primary. This weekend, the Boston Globe had a big editorial urging independence. Do not vote in the Democrat primary. Show up, vote in the Republican primary.
- [04:01]
Ben Ferguson
Operation Chaos, basically.
- [04:02]
Ted Cruz
Well, but it's very specific. And vote for Nikki Haley. Beat Donald Trump is what the Boston Globe and the Boston Globe says. We don't like Nikki Haley.
- [04:11]
Ron DeSantis
Yeah.
- [04:11]
Ted Cruz
But we hate Donald Trump. And so particularly if you see a bunch of independents showing up in order to defeat Trump, that could happen in one state. But beyond that, I don't see any, any path going forward for Haley or anyone to beat Trump.
- [04:27]
Ben Ferguson
Let's talk about DeSantis for a moment. Dropping out and what happens to his voters in New Hampshire. There are some that might be frustrating their guys out. Do they. Does a majority of them go historically to the underdog there because you're mad that you had your guy dropped out because the guy who's in the lead, AKA Donald Trump. Talk about the psychological aspect of voters and what happens historically there.
- [04:51]
Ted Cruz
So I have not seen the polling in New Hampshire of who DeSantis people list as their second choice. And that's among more sophisticated polling. You ask people, all right, your first choice is. Is Ben Ferguson. Who's your second choice? Mickey Mouse. Okay, so you write those down. My supposition. So DeSantis was about 6% in New Hampshire. He was not going to do well in New Hampshire. That's part of the reason Ron didn't have a path.
- [05:17]
Ron DeSantis
Yeah.
- [05:18]
Ted Cruz
He was going to get crushed in New Hampshire, then he was going to go to South Carolina and get crushed in South Carolina, and then he was going to go on to the Super Tuesday states and get crushed, including getting crushed in his home state of Florida. And so they're just as you looked at the calendar and said, well, what state can he win? There wasn't an answer to that, which is why this decision was made. You know, in terms of where the roughly 6% of New Hampshire voters go that we're going to vote for him, my guess is that more of them go to Trump than go to Haley. I don't know that, but you've got kind of twin factors. If you're just making suppositions on one factor. Look, DeSantis as a candidate, based on his record, there's much more of an ideological overlap with Trump. DeSantis was running as a pretty Trumpy candidate. It was basically Trump without the baggage. Was to the extent There was a DeSantis message, that was it.
- [06:20]
Ben Ferguson
You and I talked about this. If you put them on stage and you went through 100 conservative issues and said, raise your hand if you agree with this or disagree, they would probably have matched up about 99 out of 100.
- [06:29]
Ted Cruz
And so the voters who were with DeSantis tend to agree with Trump on the issues down the line. However, some of the voters with DeSantis are people who just didn't like Trump and decided DeSantis was the strongest alternative. So if you're a voter who doesn't like Trump, presumably you go to Nikki Haley. If you're a voter who is ideologically aligned and stylistically aligned with Trump and DeSantis, you presumably go to Trump. My guess is of the 6%, 4% goes to Trump and 2 goes to Haley. That's just pulling out of the air, but notionally, those would be the reasons that that would happen.
- [07:10]
Ben Ferguson
All right, let's go back to your victory for a second. That was a life changing moment politically for you. Can we talk strategy just for a second there? What was your strategy? And remind people what the issues were during that election with Donald Trump? It was. I mean, that was a just bloodbath. There was a lot of punches that were being swung. There was a lot of negative media, and I'm talking about media stories and accusations and absurd things that I could have never imagined when hit in that race. And all of a sudden it was all there and you came out with that victory. When did you think you were gonna win? That was there a day or Two before, when you thought we have the edge, was it a week before?
- [07:49]
Ted Cruz
So on the weekend, all of the public polling showed Trump was gonna win Iowa, and all the public polling was wrong. I can tell you my polling on the campaign showed we were gonna win Iowa. And my polling, I think, was one point off. And that was consistent throughout the 2016 campaign. Our internal polls were almost exactly where our numbers were. And so we knew where we were. We ran a very, very data driven campaign. Listen, 2016 was a race where there were 17 Republican candidates. It was a very crowded field and those 17 candidates, and it was a very strong field.
- [08:25]
Ben Ferguson
The level of debate then was at a level that I don't think we've had in a long time in politics. And that's one of the things that I loved about that campaign was you did have a lot of brilliant minds on stage. I kind of missed that. There was a level of debate that I thought was good for the country on issues. Did you enjoy that?
- [08:45]
Ted Cruz
Loved every second of every minute of every day. It was incredible. It was breathtaking. It was all consuming and it was the most fun I've ever had in my life.
- [08:57]
Ben Ferguson
Can I ask an inside baseball question there? Rubio. If he would have dropped out before South Carolina, what did Yalls polling show? Then.
- [09:07]
Ted Cruz
Trump would have still won South Carolina, but it would have been a much. Would have been much closer. And Rubio later on. Rubio stayed in the race for a long time and cut support away from me. And so if you fast forward to Super Tuesday and before the Florida primary, we polled at the time, what happened if Rubio and I ran together as a ticket, what ended up happening? I ended up winning 12 states. Trump won. At the time, it was something like 23 states and no other candidate won more than a single state. So Kasich won Ohio, Rubio won Minnesota, and Trump and I won every other state. We did poll at the time, right before Florida. What happens if Rubio drops out and if Rubio joins me and we. Our poll numbers show that my support jumped double digits.
- [10:05]
Ben Ferguson
Wow.
- [10:06]
Ted Cruz
And I think it would have changed the outcome if Marco had done that. I think it is quite likely the outcome would have changed, but he didn't. And so what ended up happening is, even though I won 12 states, at the end of the day, Trump had too big a lead and it essentially took too long for the rest of the field to consolidate that. Rubio stuck around a long time. Kasich stuck around a long time. They couldn't win anywhere, but they could suck votes away from me. And they did. And that their sticking around played a pivotal part in Trump's winning the nomination. In 16.
- [10:44]
Unknown
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- [12:59]
Ben Ferguson
And I want you to kind of pull back the curtain. Yep. Because DeSantis just went through this gut wrenching moment. I think in politics, people don't understand how hard is not when you're running president. I think on just you, your family, your friends, your supporters, the people that are writing checks, it is one of the worst moments, watching a candidate have to decide how to drop out, when to drop out, where to do it, being good stewards of their supporters and their dollars that you're continually asking them to give. When you were looking at the idea of dropping out, how did that go down? Did you talk to a larger group of people first? Did you talk to donors and then a smaller group? Did you talk to your campaign staff and then did you talk to your family? What was that cycle? How did that look like to make that decision? Because obviously DeSantis had to deal with that. And now there's a lot of people calling for Nikki Haley to get out. I don't think she's going to get out anytime soon. And so what does that decision look like when you were having to go through it?
- [14:00]
Ted Cruz
Well, listen, almost everyone drops out for the same reason they go broke. What, what drives you out of a campaign is when you're no longer able to raise the money to keep the lights on, when you're no longer able to raise the money to run any ads, when you're no longer able to raise the money to pay your campaign staff, when you're no longer able to raise the money to fly to the next campaign event. That's what drives people out. It's also a reason a lot of campaigns are terrible at budgeting and they blow a lot of money fast and early and they go broke. And so you have a lot of candidates who drop out before a single vote is cast, who drop out before what happens. And so marshaling the money. One of the reasons DeSantis, I'm not surprised that he dropped out is he was going broke and nobody would write him a check. At this point, when he's gotten crushed in Iowa and there's not a state coming up that he any prayer of winning, why do you write that check? It becomes impossible to raise money, both large money, you're calling donors and asking them to max out, and no one will write a check. Then if they don't think you can win, your money disappears. But little donors, people giving $5 or $10, they don't do that either. If they don't believe you have a chance at victory, that dynamic is inevitably the case. You also have an and look, it's worth underscoring Believing you can win, if your supporters believe you can win, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. So, for example, we came out of the first three states. I won Iowa, Trump won New Hampshire and South Carolina. We then went forward, we had Super Tuesday. I ended up on Super Tuesday. Trump won seven states, I won three. So I won Oklahoma, Maine and Texas. And Texas was a big deal, a lot of delegates. I won a big double digit victory in Texas.
- [16:00]
Ben Ferguson
You'd rather win Texas than three or four other smaller states on the same day?
- [16:04]
Ted Cruz
Yes, but winning Oklahoma, and that's the day Rubio won Minnesota. So that was his one victory. But winning those three states is what made it at that point a two man race, as I established myself as the principal alternative to Trump at this point. If you fast forward from there. So there was a three week period in March and April when I won five consecutive primaries by double digits. I won Utah, North Dakota, Wyoming, Colorado, Wisconsin. All three of those played, all five of those played out over three consecutive weeks and I won all of them by double digits. Big crushing victories. Normally when that happens, there's a narrative of the parties uniting, coming together. You're winning, you're uniting different factions of the party. Wisconsin, for example, was an enormous victory. You look at Wisconsin, Wisconsin, the knock that the media tried to do on me was the same knock they did on Huckabee and Santorum, which is, he's an evangelical niche candidate that just appeals in small circles. I never thought that was a very, very accurate characterization. Yes, I am a Christian and that is a big part of who I am. But I'm a very different person than Mike Huckabee or Rick Santorum. Wisconsin is one of the least evangelical states in the country. Wisconsin is a purple state.
- [17:42]
Ron DeSantis
Yeah.
- [17:43]
Ted Cruz
Wisconsin is a blue collar state. Wisconsin is a union state. Wisconsin is a working class state. And so under conventional narratives, I should have gotten crushed in Wisconsin. I ended up winning decisively in Wisconsin. I won very conservatives, I won somewhat conservatives, I won women, I won men, I won young people, I won Reagan Democrats. It was a 13 point victory in Wisconsin.
- [18:07]
Ben Ferguson
What was the issue there that made that difference?
- [18:12]
Ted Cruz
I campaigned on my record, that I had a strong, proven record of fighting for conservative principles, fighting for jobs, fighting for the Constitution. And that proven record resonated. What happened subsequently, however, is the next week was the New York primary. Now, the New York primary is Donald Trump's home state.
- [18:35]
Ron DeSantis
Yeah.
- [18:36]
Ted Cruz
The New York primary also is a difficult primary. For one thing, New York has a curious way of doing primaries in that they have a Different party, the conservative Party. So that many of the more conservative New York voters are not actually in the Republican Party, they're in the Conservative party.
- [18:54]
Ron DeSantis
Yeah.
- [18:56]
Ted Cruz
And listen, one would expect Trump to win his home state. He did. He won New York decisively. New York is also where most of the national and corporate media is headquartered.
- [19:06]
Ben Ferguson
So they loved it.
- [19:07]
Ted Cruz
And so for the media, they obsessed on that. And what ended up happening, we saw a 48 hour time period where the relentless media coverage was, the race is over. Trump has won. He can't be beaten. He can't be beaten. He can't be beaten. Despite we just had five double digit victories in a row, in a row, consecutively. The media just flooded the zone with the message, the race is over. And we saw our numbers plummet. So the next week was Pennsylvania before the New York primary. Trump and I were tied in Pennsylvania. After the New York primary, when the media hammered, the race is over, the race is over, we dropped double digits. Our people gave up. They said, you just can't win. That effect. And so I can tell you for DeSantis, once your people believe you can't win, they don't show up.
- [20:01]
Ron DeSantis
Yeah.
- [20:02]
Ted Cruz
They don't work, they don't make phone calls, they don't give money, they don't.
- [20:05]
Ben Ferguson
Put yard signs, they don't do all the things that a campaign desperately needs.
- [20:08]
Ted Cruz
It just takes. So coming out of Wisconsin, the polling in California, I was leading Trump significantly in California.
- [20:17]
Ben Ferguson
Interesting.
- [20:18]
Ted Cruz
Until the media just broke our back with the race is over. The race is over. The race is over. Trump has won. Trump has won. Trump has won. And the media made that a self fulfilling prophecy. And so we saw my last primary was Indiana and Indiana, the relentless media coverage. And actually it was Quantified. Trump got $3 billion in free media that cycle. And so my campaign, by the way.
- [20:52]
Ben Ferguson
I think you should say that again, because I think people forget this.3 billion with a B. And so people understand how we do this in the political world. When you're running campaigns, there's earned media, there's free media, and there's news cycles that just play to some people's advantage. Donald Trump just sucked the free media out of every room.
- [21:14]
Ted Cruz
And there was no precedent for it. So in 2016, my campaign raised $92 million. It was the most money any Republican had ever raised in the history of presidential primaries. More than George W. Bush or John McCain or Mitt Romney. And that came from 1.6 million contributions all over the country. $92 million is a crap ton of Money? Yeah, unless you have $3 billion on the other end. And it actually was quantified the last 30 days of the campaign. Donald Trump got $500 million in free media. This is during the primary, the last 30 days. $500 million.
- [21:53]
Ben Ferguson
Wow.
- [21:54]
Ted Cruz
Over 90% of it was positive. Basically, the last 30 days, the media just said, it's over, it's over, it's over, it's over. And the floor collapsed on all of our numbers. Our people gave up. The media convinced them it was over, and once they convinced them it was over, it was. So DeSantis is in the same place. His people had abandoned hope, and at that point, he had no choice. And so I suspended the campaign. May 3. I still remember it well. We did a rally.
- [22:27]
Ben Ferguson
What got you to that decision, though? I understand the money drying up, but explain the sphere around you and how many meetings did it take to get to the decision.
- [22:38]
Ted Cruz
So, look, I had a core team, a senior leadership team on the campaign, and these are very trusted advisors. And it's about 10 people. And we spent. So the night before Indiana, we spent several hours going through the data and going through numbers. I told you, we were intensely data driven. I don't think there has ever been a candidate and a campaign that was as data driven as we were. And we knew the results in virtually every state before they happened. And consistently our results were within one or two points of the outcome. So as we were sitting down the night before, we had a long, extensive meeting. And we go through the numbers, we go through the numbers in the subsequent states. And as I'm looking at it, there wasn't a state we had a path to win.
- [23:32]
Ben Ferguson
So is that just crushing to you personally? I mean, you're still in a campaign, you're still fighting, Senator.
- [23:40]
Ted Cruz
I mean, so the media played a pivotal role in it. So, for example, the night of the New York primary, I gave a speech in Constitution hall in Philadelphia. Pennsylvania was coming up the next week. I remember that it was a brand new speech. So it was not my stump speech. It was a speech I'd never given before. It wasn't terribly long. It was like 12, 13 minutes. So it was not a long stem winder. The media cut it off. They didn't air it. They just went away. Now, mind you, there are only two of us, Trump and me. There were four people on planet Earth, one of the four of whom was gonna be the next president. Trump and me, Hillary and Bernie. Those are the four candidates remaining. And the media said, nope, we're not even going to cover your speech, mind you, they would do things like CNN had one press conference where they literally had the camera live on an empty podium waiting for Trump to speak. They had the camera pointed at the air. There's this plane. I mean, it was breathtaking coverage that just drowned everything out. And so as we're sitting there, we looked at the upcoming states, and when our numbers collapsed, our numbers collapsed everywhere. So I'm sitting there with my data guys, and I'm like, well, okay, what's the path to victory? I mentioned why DeSantis suspended. He didn't have a path to victory. As I looked at it, I could not see any path to victory. Now, I also knew my numbers in Indiana. I knew that we were going to lose the next day. I knew we were going to lose by double digits. Now, did I hold out hope for a miracle? Sure.
- [25:21]
Ron DeSantis
Yeah.
- [25:23]
Ted Cruz
But our data was rock solid. And it's interesting, there's some people in politics who hire staffers who just blow smoke at them, tell them what they want to hear. I don't understand that. I think that's idiotic. I hire a team that they will tell me when I've screwed up. They'll tell me when the polling's bad. Like, they're brutally honest. I think that makes you much more effective. But I knew that night, okay, the next day, we're going to get clobbered in Indiana. And if we get clobbered in Indiana, we go on, and the state's coming up. We don't have any path. And I mentioned everyone drops out when they go broke. I'm one of the few people for whom that was not the case. I wasn't broke. We had several million dollars still in the bank.
- [26:04]
Ben Ferguson
You could have kept going.
- [26:06]
Ted Cruz
I had the money to keep going. Now, we couldn't do big ad buys.
- [26:10]
Ben Ferguson
Yeah, but you could run a campaign. You could get to the next state. You could set up shop. You could do the. You could do the events.
- [26:17]
Ted Cruz
So when I suspended on May 3, Trump was astonished, did not expect me to do that. And as I said, the reason I did is we looked at the polling numbers, and there was no credible path to come back and win. And once there wasn't a path to win, I wasn't interested in running and being a spoiler. Listen, I wanted to beat Hillary Clinton.
- [26:39]
Ron DeSantis
Yeah.
- [26:40]
Ted Cruz
And so I didn't want to stick around just for the heck of it, once there wasn't a path forward. And so I had a speech prepared that night, and we had, we're in Indiana and We had several hundred of our strongest supporters that were there. And. Well, actually, let me tell you something about that morning. So the morning of the Indiana primary, I fly out to this event to do this speech. And by the way, in Indiana I was campaigning with Mike Pence, who was the governor of Indiana, who had just endorsed me.
- [27:13]
Ben Ferguson
It was a big endorsement and a lot of people thought that could maybe change those numbers you were talking about.
- [27:18]
Ted Cruz
Except we didn't because Pence's numbers were terrible in Indiana. He actually was underwater. His unfavorables were higher than his favorables. And so we had, we actually, there were very limited places in Indiana we could take Pence because most counties we went to, it was not helpful. We picked a couple of counties where it was. But this is what I mean by being data driven. We say, okay, if we're going to campaign with someone, let's do it somewhere where it helps and not hurts and down to those day to day decisions. But the morning of the primary we flew, I forget what town, but we flew to a speech that morning. And as we were driving by, there was an elementary school on the corner and the school knew that a presidential candidate was coming and so they let all the kids go out into the, like the yard.
- [28:12]
Ron DeSantis
Yeah.
- [28:12]
Ted Cruz
To see the presidential candidate. And I told the guy driving the truck, I said, pull over, I want to go talk to the kids. And so I went and talked to the kids and I ended up just kind of walking right into the group of kids and I was surrounded by hundreds of fifth graders, maybe younger, but they seemed about fifth graders, and they were cheering and screaming at the top of their lungs. And I've never had that happen. By the way, this is the only day in politics that I've ever had this experience. And they're literally jumping up and down around me and cheering. And I gotta say, that was emotional because I knew that morning that barring a miracle, I was dropping out that evening. So that was a hard day. That whole day was a hard day. And I will tell you, look, I don't like wearing faith on my sleeve, but Ben, I genuinely feel like that morning was God just giving me a hug.
- [29:20]
Ron DeSantis
Yeah.
- [29:21]
Ted Cruz
Like I will tell you to be surrounded by several hundred screaming fifth graders just cheering. I was grateful, like, thank you.
- [29:31]
Ben Ferguson
I needed this.
- [29:32]
Ted Cruz
I needed. And it's still, to this day, I'm getting choked up. I mean, it was a morning that was just like, wow. So that night we have the rally, I have my prepared remarks and I'm giving my remarks and they have me suspending the campaign as I get to. I say, I've always said I will stay in this as long as there is a path to victory ahead. Looking at the results, I don't see a path to victory. And therefore I am tonight suspending my campaign for president. When that happened, there was a woman in the crowd who let out a wail and it felt like she had been struck. And I gotta say, it struck me like a knife. Like that wail hurt. And I made it through the speech and I'll tell you, it was not easy to make it through the speech. And then I went backstage, there was a big curtain that separated backstage. And I went backstage and I'll tell you, I was just weeping. Just tears were streaming down my face. And to this day I'm embarrassed because I couldn't go out there and thank those supporters. And I desperately wanted. There were hundreds of people who had flown from state to state, had knocked on doors, had made phone calls, had poured their hearts into them. And I wanted with all my might to go out there and hug every one of them and say thank you. Thank you for fighting for our country. And I just, I couldn't stop weeping. And the problem was there were about 200 TV cameras out there. And from my perspective and what I thought that night, I said, I'll be damned if I'm gonna let the media turn Lyin Ted into crying Ted that just. No, no, they do not get to see this. It's none of their damn business. So I couldn't come out. And Heidi was there and it was one of, look, any good marriage is really a partnership and Heidi is my best friend. That night Heidi went out and spent probably two hours saying thank you, saying thank you and hugging every person there. And they're all crying too. It was a painful night, but Heidi had the strength to do what on that night, I did not. That's a hard thing. A presidential campaign is so all consuming. It consumes 16 to 18 hours a day, seven days a week. It that. Listen, I, I feel for Ron and Casey.
- [32:17]
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- [33:34]
Ben Ferguson
I think anyone that runs for president that's a serious candidate and drops out. People have asked me, what's it like on a presidential campaign when it's over? I'm like, it's like a funeral.
- [33:43]
Ted Cruz
Yeah.
- [33:44]
Ben Ferguson
If you're a true believer in the campaign, in the candidate, you're giving it your all. You're a staffer, you want your guy to win and it's over. It's like a funeral.
- [33:54]
Ted Cruz
And I spent a lot of time after, like our team. I still think the team we assembled, and I'm not impartial, but I think the team we assembled is the best campaign team certainly that I've ever seen. And they were like family. And so I went and assembled the entire team. Our headquarters was here in Houston. And I thanked all the staff that this is like a day or two later. I thanked everyone and brought them in and just talked about, reflected on what the campaign meant and what they'd accomplished. And when we started, nobody thought I had a prayer. Nobody thought we could win a single state. And we came within inches of winning the whole thing. And I will tell you, we had. So our campaign office was like an entire floor of cubicles here in Houston.
- [34:41]
Ben Ferguson
Not far from where we are right now.
- [34:43]
Ted Cruz
Very close to where we are right now. And as everyone you know, went home, I remember walking through that campaign office and just all the empty cubicles and you know the song from Les Mischievous, Empty Chairs and Empty Table.
- [35:01]
Ron DeSantis
Yeah.
- [35:02]
Ted Cruz
That was the song I kept hearing in my mind. In fact, I'm sure Ron and Casey are feeling the same thing. And it is a hard thing because everyone pours themselves into it. Years ago, someone told me there's a reason that both politics and war use the word campaign because it's all consuming. There is nothing else in life like when you are on a campaign, it is 100% of your will and your heart and your mind and your soul. And everything. And, you know, you do feel like you've let people down. You know, you're getting people that are pouring, they're uprooting their lives, they're moving their families, they're giving sacrificially. They believe in you. And look, at this point, I've won elections, I've lost elections. Winning is much better. Yeah, those nights are a lot better. But the reality here, I think this outcome was ordained the night of the Iowa caucuses, when Trump won a dominating victory. It was clear DeSantis had no oxygen. And Haley, as I mentioned, she will likely be competitive in New Hampshire, but I see no path for her beyond that. And so now we are going to test. Look, there are some big donors in the Republican Party that are never Trumpers, that who do not like Trump and are writing millions of dollars to try to change the outcome. I don't think the money can do it at this point. You know, they've got enough money in New Hampshire, they could practically send a masseuse to give everyone a back rub and a foot rubber on the way to the polls. But as you get on to South Carolina, I think Trump's lead is way too large for Haley to have a chance. And from there, I don't think there's.
- [37:01]
Ben Ferguson
Any path beyond final question. Your advice to Nikki Haley. If you don't have that pathway that you just described, what's the point of staying in?
- [37:11]
Ted Cruz
Look, you know, I actually try to refrain from giving advice to other candidates that everyone's got to follow their own heart and do what they think is.
- [37:18]
Ben Ferguson
Right and their own timeline.
- [37:19]
Ted Cruz
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's, you know, calling on people to get out, I don't think.
- [37:27]
Ben Ferguson
Let it play out.
- [37:28]
Ted Cruz
Yeah, it will play out. It's going to play out naturally. It's going to play out naturally and pretty quickly, I think. And so, you know, I recognize the decision to suspend a campaign is not easy. And look, depending on when it occurs, it can often mean. So in 2016, you know, a bunch of the candidates suspended early, long before Iowa. And so I ended up, of my opponents, five of my opponents ended up endorsing me in that race. And so I got endorsed by Rick Perry and Carly Fiorina and Scott Walker and Jeb Bush and Lindsey Graham all backed me. And, you know, you go out and campaign, so, you know, Rick Perry, you know, went and campaigned with me in Iowa, you know, and, you know, I remember being in Barnes there. And look, Rick Perry was my governor, someone who I knew and respected. He's older than I am. So it was a little surreal having someone like Rick Perry come and campaign and say, go vote for Ted. You know, Lindsey Graham, my colleague, you know, he had famously said that if you killed me on the floor of the Senate and the jury were other senators, you couldn't find a jury to convict me, to convict the murderer. And so when Lindsey endorsed me, I jumped on and he helped raise some money for me. And I remember saying at the time, I said, wow, this is the first time in my life I've ever been endorsed by someone who's publicly called for my murder. You know, politics can be a strange bit. And Lindsey and I have become friends since then. But it was, you get interesting Carly Fiorina, who I thought was a terrific candidate that cycle, you'll recall, I announced that if I'd won, she would have been my vp. Yeah, that was an unusual step to do it early. But frankly, I was trying to break through the narrative, the wall of the $3 billion of free media. And I was trying to find something that actually would be heard by the voters. But the corporate media had no interest in anything being heard, frankly. I think most of the media wanted Trump to be the nominee because they wanted Hillary to win.
- [39:56]
Ben Ferguson
And they thought that was what all of them are saying was, give us Trump, he's the easiest to beat, and Hillary Clinton will become the President of the United States of America and will break that glass ceiling of that beautiful building.
- [40:07]
Ted Cruz
I think that was a very deliberate strategy. And I will say for all those bastards, it kind of backfired. They got four years of Donald Trump as president. They may be about to get four more years of Donald Trump as president. And it's, you know, the self declared media overlords. There is an old saying, be careful what you wish for.
- [40:27]
Ben Ferguson
No doubt about it. I love these conversations. I love that we get to do this. Thanks for pulling back the curtain on 16 and explaining it from a candidate's perspective. Because as you mentioned, what people go through when they have to drop out, especially Desantis right now, it's tough. It can take months to come out from that fog of war afterwards, because all of a sudden you go from nine to nothing to it's all over, as you mentioned. And how long does it take to get out of that fog? I think it depends on the candidate.
- [40:53]
Ted Cruz
It depends a lot. Look, everyone has a period where you just kind of, I assume Ron will do this, but just about everyone goes and goes somewhere on vacation. And my advice, when I talk to a candidate, after they've lost. And this is true. I talk to lots of candidates who are running for Senate and House, and some win, some lose. But for the ones that lose, I say go somewhere, unplug. Get off email, get off your phone, get off Twitter. Just go sit by the beach with a pina colada and just recharge. Recharge. Be with your family, hug your kids. Just get away for a while. And look, the world gets a lot quieter. You know, in a presidential campaign, it's deafening. And then when you suspend it, it's like, okay, I'm out of this crazy game, at least for now. And then to come out of the funk, listen, every presidential candidate that loses, I think, without exception, goes into a funk. I mean, you have a bit of depression and grieving.
- [41:59]
Ron DeSantis
Yeah.
- [42:00]
Ted Cruz
And the key to kind. I was no exception to that. I had a period where I was just kind of in a funk. Yeah. And I think the key to coming out of it is finding something to lean in that you love, that you engage in. And, you know, listen, I have a day job of representing 30 million Texans, which I love doing, and pour all of my heart, mind and soul into it. And that became go. And then when Trump became president, you.
- [42:25]
Ben Ferguson
Had somebody to work with, and I.
- [42:27]
Ted Cruz
Rolled up my sleeves and said, I am gonna lead the fight in the Senate. For us to deliver on our promises, we have work to do. And so pouring yourself into the fight and into the work is, I think, a really important part of coming out of it. And some candidates do that more quickly than others. It varies person by person.
- [42:46]
Ben Ferguson
It's fun. I love the conversation. Don't forget, we do this show Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Make sure that you hit that subscribe download button, especially if you're listening on Apple right now. You have to check that box and make sure that you are following the show. They've changed it up for the new year and how it works. So make sure you're still getting those automatic downloads as we do the show three days a week, plus a week in review on Saturdays for what you may have missed during the week. And we'll see you back here on Wednesday.