Ben Ferguson (3:52)

If they do that, does that mean that you lose the chance for the closed door deposition? And does that also, and I'm playing devil's advocate here, does that imply that you're basically conceding to the demands of Hunter Biden on the entire U.S. congress?

Senator Ted Cruz (4:08)

Yes and yes. And so what? Look, losing the closed door deposition there, there's some advantages to having that, sure. But you can litigate about it for a year and get nothing. Or on your second point, they could be peaked, they could be annoyed. Well, gosh, no witness is gonna dictate what we do, cuz we're, we're tough. Well, so what? Look, there's a job to be done. And, and, and the good thing is you and I both know Jim Jordan and James Comer. These are serious men focused on a serious task. And so I think the appropriate reaction is not to have your feelings hurt and not even to be annoyed, although you are Perfectly justified in being annoyed that a witness is effectively dictating the method in which he will testify. That is annoying. And in the vast majority of situations, it's utterly unacceptable. In this case, there is an overriding in interest of justice, of putting the evidence before the American people. And remember, this is something that you and I have said a lot on verdict. This is not about Hunter Biden, this is about Joe Biden.

Ben Ferguson (5:14)

Great point.

Senator Ted Cruz (5:16)

If the result of this is they spend the next year fighting over the contempt finding, that is a complete waste of time. We need the evidence in front of the American people that Joe Biden was corrupt. And in this, Hunter Biden is an accomplice and he's a witness, but he's not the actual target. The only reason anyone cares about Hunter Biden is because he was integrally involved in the alleged corruption and bribery of his father, who was Vice President of the United States and is now the President of the United States. That's why they should say, fine, we'll have you first week of January in front of the full hearing on tv and we'll walk you systematically through the questions. And might they get some surprises? Yes. Part of the reason you do a closed door deposition is so you don't get surprised. You get an answer in the deposition and then when you do the hearing, if they say something different, you can confront them with, well, that's not what you said at our deposition. I get that, that, that, that is strategically better. But my point is having Hunter testify under oath now versus not having him testify for the next year, it ain't even close. Which is better for the pursuit of justice.

Ben Ferguson (6:30)

All right, so let's say that what you're, you're mentioning here happens. I want to, I want us both to go on the record. Would Hunter Biden show up for that public hearing? Now? He claims he would. Right. But he was saying that because he wasn't going to show up for that. That was his way of getting out of the closed door. So let's say that Jim Jordan and James Comer, they do this. The speaker of the House says, let's, this our new strategy, Johnson, let's go with it. Do you believe that Hunter Biden would actually show for that open hearing?

Senator Ted Cruz (6:59)

So again, I don't know. I think there is a significant chance he wouldn't show for the open hearing. But if you forced me to put odds to it, I'd probably say 60, 40. He shows. I think there's a 40% chance he backs out and said, oh, I was just Kidding. I'm not going to testify there either. But I think there's a 60% chance that he follows through. He is at this point defiantly said he's ready to go and he's made that offer. And I think ego and vanity may compel him to go and testify in the open, if that's what happens. What do you think? Where are your odds?

Ben Ferguson (7:34)

I think there's a 0% chance he'd show up for the second one because if he knows he doesn't have to show up for either and they're not going to hold him in contempt because. And you would know this legally. I don't. I'm asking you sincerely, if he didn't show up for the public hearing, what's the recourse there? Would it go to the DOJ again?

Senator Ted Cruz (7:49)

They'd hold him in contempt and DOJ again would, would sit on their hands and do nothing.

Ben Ferguson (7:53)

So if you're going to be held in contempt the first time, why not double up on it and say nothing at all?

Senator Ted Cruz (7:58)

Look, you're actually giving very good legal advice for someone without a jd. There's a lot of force to what you're saying. Look, the reason I think it is slightly more likely than not that he shows up is ego. It is entirely who he is. And they've been so braggadocious saying that he would do it that I think he would find it personally hard to back out of. But there's no doubt the, the risk averse, the CYA approach is don't show up to either. By the way, that shouldn't be the risk averse approach. If we actually had a functioning Department of Justice that would go and prosecute you for contempt of Congress, then the, the risk calculus was, would change. But remember, Congress held Eric Holder, then the Attorney General of the United States in, in contempt and DOJ did nothing. Now, Eric Holder was in charge of doj, but they did nothing. And I don't expect the Biden DOJ to do any different.

Ben Ferguson (8:57)

Yeah. Prosecuted and convicted for contempt of Congress. Hunter Biden's punishment could, keyword could, if you're looking at the book, be up to $100,000 fine and imprisonment. And I want to just, just let me stew in this for a second because I think everyone listening right now probably feels this way. It is so frustrating to live in a country where there's such a blatant double standard in how the law is applied. You look at Peter Navarro and Steve Bannon, they were indicted on contempt charges for not complying with what Many refer to as the illegitimate January 6th committee. There was no basis to comply with the Democrats fake committee. Right. That had fake Republicans on there. And it was done not the way that it's normally done historically. And yet those two men, no problem being arrested and tried to ruin their lives. It's hard, I think, for so many people listening right now to sit here and to be okay with this and to see the DOJ weaponized in this way. Uh, it was Matthew Graves, who was the D.C. attorney who prosecuted Navarro and Bannon. Let me remind everybody, he worked on the presidential campaigns for Joe Biden as well as other Democrats. And this is a process now where I think Americans are so frustrated. So do you agree that it's. That we are all not crazy to be so irritated and frustrated at these two standards of justice that we're watching play out in real time?

Senator Ted Cruz (10:26)

So I agree that everyone but Ben is not crazy. Look, it is absolutely a double standard. And if you don't believe me that it's a double standard, believe Joe Biden. Listen to this clip. In October of 2021, when asked this exact question, here's what Biden had to say.

Ben Ferguson (10:51)

Do you. What's your message to people who defy.

Senator Ted Cruz (10:54)

Congressional subpoenas on the January 6th committee?

C (10:57)

I hope that the committee goes after them and holds them accountable.

Senator Ted Cruz (11:01)

Should they be prosecuted by the.

D (11:02)

I do.

C (11:03)

Yes.

Ben Ferguson (11:06)

I do. Yes. That was a response. Again, you could hear in the background Marine One spooling up there, and he's saying, yes, you should be held accountable. Yes, you should be held in contempt. Before I get your response to that, Senator, let me tell you about blackout coffee. Bidenomics is a complete and total disaster. But I don't let that or any of these other issues ruin my day. You want to know why? Because I start my day with a hot America first cup of blackout coffee. Now, if you like a premium cup of coffee to start your day, and I got to get up every day, get on the radio at 7 in the morning. I have to be ready to give the news. And. And that is why I have to have a good cup of coffee. Not average, but a really good cup of coffee. Blackout Coffee is 100America, 0% woke company. You know, there's a bunch of woke coffee companies out there. The biggest ones are the wokest ones out there. Well, Blackout is 100 committed to conservative values. From sourcing the beans to the roasting process, customer support, and shipping. They embody true American values and accept no compromise on taste or quality. I'm drinking it Every day. I can tell you this is true. You need to try blackout coffee. And if you've got someone on your Christmas list is a coffee drinker that loves premium coffee, go to blackout coffee.com verdict that's blackout coffee.com verdict. You'll use the promo code verdict and you're going to get 20% off your first order. Plus you can see all their incredible gift ideas for the holidays. It's blackout coffee.com verdict. Be awake, not woke. Blackout coffee.com verdict Senator, you hear the president there. He made it clear you defy these subpoenas, you deserve to be prosecuted, you deserve to be thrown in jail. That's what he said as president. Getting on Marine One.

Senator Ted Cruz (12:49)

Well, that's exactly right. And it's a double standard. If they're going after someone in the Trump White House, then absolutely, they want to hold him in contempt. They want to prosecute him. They want DOJ to go after them. And they're happy to do that. If it's Hunter's son who's covering up evidence of criminality from daddy, who happens to be the President of the United States than the Biden Department of Justice. They act like they're an arm of the dnc. They do not behave like they have any obligation to the rule of law. Merrick Garland should be impeached and removed from office. He's been a disgrace as Attorney General. And part of why they do this is they know the Department of Justice is weaponized and politicized and they also know that the media is thoroughly dishonest. So for example, Hunter, when he was explaining that that he would not not go to the closed door deposition, he said his father was not financially involved in his business. And financially, suddenly that word came in. Now remember, Joe Biden used to say he'd never talked with his son about his business. He'd never talked to his business associates. All of those proved wrong. Then the Biden White House said he was not involved, he was not in business with Hunter. And now Hunter says his father is not, quote, financially involved in his business. They keep moving the standard.

Ben Ferguson (14:08)

But you know what, let's play, let's play Joe Biden saying this because if you remember, you go back to the first clip I want to play, people is from Des Moines, Iowa, September 21, 2019. He was angry when he was answering Peter Doocy's question. Take a listen.

D (14:24)

How many times have you ever spoken.

E (14:26)

To your son about his overseas business dealings?

C (14:29)

I've never spoken to my son about his overseas business dealings. I have Never discussed with my son or my brother or anyone else anything having to do with their businesses, period. And what I will do is the same thing we did in our administration. There will be an absolute wall between personal and private and the government.

D (14:50)

Do you stand by your statement that you did not discuss any of your son's overseas business?

C (14:54)

Yes, I stand by.

Ben Ferguson (14:56)

I mean, he lied to all of us, Senator.

Senator Ted Cruz (14:58)

He did. And compare that to what Hunter said this week. Compare that to the latest statement. Play that clip.

F (15:07)

Let me state as clearly as I can, my father was not financially involved in my business. Not as a practicing lawyer, not as a board member of Burisma, not my partnership with a Chinese private businessman, not in my investments at home, nor abroad. And certainly not as an artist. During my battle with addiction, my parents were there for me. They literally saved my life.

Ben Ferguson (15:41)

By the way, center, you and I predicted this was going to be the alibi all along. Oh, yeah, He's. He's. He's. He's an addict. And he. And he went into it perfectly. He paused, he took a deep breath, and then he. And then he lays it on real thick. I was an addict and my parents were there for me. And then. Listen, the last part.

F (15:59)

They helped me in ways that I will never be able to repay. Of course, they would never expect me to. And in the depths of my addiction, I was extremely irresponsible with my finances. But to suggest that as grounds for an impeachment inquiry is beyond the absurd. It's shameless. There is no evidence to support the allegations that my father was financially involved in my business because it did not happen.

Ben Ferguson (16:30)

So it's pretty clear that both of them are lying to the American people.

Senator Ted Cruz (16:34)

Well, but there's an important context. So that's a categorical denial that Joe Biden was financially involved in his businesses. But you know what's different? It's not under oath. It's not sworn testimony, which means he can lie to the reporters, and it's not a felony. If he had said the same thing, either in a closed door deposition under oath or in testimony in the House under oath, and if he'd lied and you could prove he lied, that would be a felony. That would be the equivalent of perjury, and it would come with jail time attached to it. And so that's part of why Hunter doesn't want to be under oath, so he can lie without consequences. But he also knows that his lies will be amplified by Democratic hacks in Congress and by the corrupt corporate media. So I want to tell you what the New York Times did. So Hunter's opening sentence there. Let me read it to you again. Let me state as clearly as I can, my father was not financially involved in my business. Now, here's how the New York Times reported his quote. Let me state it as clearly as I can. My father was not involved in my business. The word financially the New York Times miraculously deleted. They are covering up for it. They're not journalists. They're liars. And it's not an accident. That wasn't a typo. Removing the word financially. Look, you read financially, you're like, oh, okay, I get the joke. Like, like it's, it's a bad dodge. And so the New York Times said, well, here's an easy way. We'll just delete it and have him say, my father was not involved in my business. Which was, of course, the old lie Joe Biden told in Des Moines. But that lie is no longer operative.

Ben Ferguson (18:09)

One other question on this before we move over to the impeachment inquiry. If, if the, if, if Hunter Biden and your Hunter Biden's attorneys right now, what is your advice to him? The White House, we hear, is getting very nervous. We see this from reporting that has come out from, from Access. It's not conservative. They've come out saying now at the White House. And people within the White House are very upset with this. They're very upset with, with the press conference he did. They think the press conference made things a lot worse as White House insiders apparently said that those inside the White House are saying that he is ruining things for his dad's reelection bid. It's an unwelcome distraction is another apparently person said it inside the White House. Tax him. And you look at the polls, and polls matter, Biden is the least popular president in modern U.S. history. Now, according to the FiveThirtyEight poll, CNN poll, senator has 67% disapprove of Biden's economy, saying that's the number one issue. And a Redfield and Wilton Strategies poll says a majority of Democrats are, quote, concerned about the Biden's ability to perform, Joe Biden's ability to perform his job. Now due to his age. You add that to what we've just witnessed over the last 24, 48 hours, and this is where Democrats have got to be freaking out inside this White House. As one Democratic strategist who worked on Clinton's 2016 campaign said, quote, I have a pit in my stomach about it. The email controversy was silly, but it was made to be a distraction. And it worked. And now he says the Hunter story has the legs to ruin things for the Bidens. The Democratic strategist added, quote, unquote.

Senator Ted Cruz (19:54)

Look, I think there are a lot of Democrats, I think there are a lot of people in the press that are getting very nervous about Joe Biden. The mounting evidence, you know, when you have 20 shell corporations, when you have hundreds of thousands of dollars and millions of dollars going back and forth and coming from Communist China and coming from Ukraine and coming from Russia and coming from corrupt oligarchs, when you have transfers, when you have check after check after check going directly to Joe Biden, when you have Joe Biden on tape getting caught lying about it over and over and over again, of course the Democrats are nervous. Anyone paying attention recognizes there is very significant evidence of corruption. And the simple question to ask even the most rabid partisan Democrats is, what services did Hunter Biden have to sell? What would anyone pay him millions of dollars for? He has no discernible skills. So generally speaking, foreign oligarchs are not in the habit of paying millions of dollars just to random crackheads. What is it that he was selling? And there's only one possible answer, and that is favors from Daddy. That's what the Democrats and the corporate media do not want you to focus on, is what was given. Let's go back to the heart of impeachment, quid pro quo. What was given in exchange for those millions of dollars. And if you ask that, the only answer that anyone is proffered is at the milder level, access to Daddy. And at the full criminal level, favors from Daddy. But that's really where the. Where the debate is. Now, of course, Democrats in the media ignore all of that and just say, no, there's no evidence at all. There's no direct evidence is what they say. Of course, we did an entire podcast on how the no direct evidence lie is a lie. You can go back and listen to that podcast if you want. But of course, Democrats are nervous.

Ben Ferguson (21:43)

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Senator Ted Cruz (24:34)

Well, the reason the House has opened the impeachment inquiry is because there is serious evidence of corruption, there is serious evidence of bribery on behalf of the President of the United States. And it's from multiple directions. But you know, Jim Jordan sent out a very simple tweet that I think is powerful. What Jim Jordan said was, quote, four facts that will never change. One, Hunter Biden sat on Burisma's board. Absolutely true. Two, he was unqualified to do so. Absolutely true. Three, Burisma pressured him to get D.C. to act on policy issues in Ukraine. And four, Joe Biden did just that. Now, of those four facts, the only one the Democrats argue against even slightly is number three. And they have some disputes. They say, well, well, no, Burisma didn't really want the prosecutor fired who was investigating the corrupt oligarch who owns Barisma because he was a bad prosecutor. So they didn't really want him fired. Now, I gotta say, that is an incredibly weak argument, and it is contrary to the evidence the House has compiled. But that's the whole of their argument. And so remember when they say no direct evidence. We talked a minute ago about what is bribery. Bribery is quid pro quo. This for that. That's the Latin phrase. The. That was for Joe Biden to get the prosecutor fired in Ukraine. And we know that Joe Biden did that. We know that that the quo happened because Joe Biden has confessed on video that he flew to Ukraine, that he held over a billion dollars in U.S. taxpayer funds that are guaranteeing loans to Ukraine. He held them hostage and said, you will not get that money unless you fire the prosecutor. And then his response we've talked about at length was, son of a. They fired the prosecutor. So the quo is admitted. It is stipulated Joe Biden has confessed on video to it. The only question is the quid which is was he paid or. And by the way, paying his family for that. That official act is also bribery. So it doesn't matter whether the money went directly to Joe Biden's bank account or whether it simply went to Hunter Biden's bank account. We know that he was making $83,000 a month. Hunter was to sit on a board. Now, mind you, I don't know of another board anywhere on earth that pays 83 grand a month to board members. That is bizarre just on the face of it. It's a lot more than ExxonMobil pays their board members. It's a lot more than any board I've ever heard of pays their board members. And remember, Hunter Biden had zero experience in oil and gas. He didn't speak Ukrainian. I'm not even sure he could find Ukraine on a map. What he did have was Daddy's cell phone. What he did have was Daddy's Fake email addresses. What he did have was Daddy's burner phones. What he did have was access to Daddy. And I gotta say, it was a good investment. If you're a corrupt oligarch and you hire Skippy boy here and Daddy uses the full force of the US Government to get the prosecutor fired, who's coming after you? That is a great investment. So that is, number one, right at the heart of the impeachment inquiry. But number two, we have the WhatsApp where Hunter is, is shaking down a Chinese Communist and saying, I'm sitting here next to my father and he's threatening retaliation from Daddy. Not from Hunter, from Daddy. From Joe Biden if they didn't pay him millions of dollars. And we know that they paid him millions of dollars. So that again, look, bribery can be on either front. It can be either for getting a benefit, but it can also be bribery. Pay me money, give me a benefit, or else I will do this bad thing through government to you. That's also bribery. You know, if. If. If A prosecutor for U.S. attorney says, Give me a million dollars or else I will indict you, and you give him a million dollars and he doesn't indict you, that's bribery. Um, in this case, the retaliation that Hunter was threatening from Daddy, it would absolutely constitute bribery on Joe's part. And mind you, the IRS whistleblowers say that in the investigation, they wanted to get the GPS data. It's very simple to ascertain. When Hunter sent that WhatsApp text, was he in fact, sitting next to Joe? You'll have Hunter's GPS data. You'll have Joe's GPS data. If they're in the same room, if they're sitting next to each other, that goes right to the heart of that. Joe knew and was involved in shaking down these corrupt foreign players. That's why the House has now opened the impeachment inquiry.

G (29:07)

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Ben Ferguson (30:37)

I want to get your reaction to something that was said on msnbc. They're claiming now that Biden's impeachment inquiry is, quote, Trump's retribution. Take a listen to this.

E (30:51)

The fact that there is no there there probably doesn't bother the likes of Jim Jordan. I think Representative McGovern got it right when he said when Trump asks them to jump, they say, how high? And they're now jumping. They're now jumping for Trump. This is his retribution. And it's a pr, A pr. Very cynical, PR driven attempt to besmirch Biden without any evidence.

Ben Ferguson (31:17)

Without any evidence. You just went through that evidence. But this is what we're up against in the media saying this is just retribution for Trump. No, it's not. This is based on the facts.

Senator Ted Cruz (31:29)

Well, MSNBC is not actually a journalistic outlet. They are propagandists. They are the left wing of the Democrat Party. So they're going to repeat that and ignore the facts altogether. They won't cover the facts. Look, if you watch MSNBC, you have no idea that Hunter Biden sent a WhatsApp text to a Chinese communist shaking him down for millions of dollars. You don't know that because you know what, if they don't report on any evidence, then they can send idiots on on camera to say there's no evidence. And if all you watch is msnbc, you're, you're right. You're right. There is no evidence because they won't report on any of the evidence. It's purely circular. And that is part of why the Democrats, their behavior is so bad. The corrupt corporate media facilitates their blatant dishonesty because the corporate media is every bit as dishonest as the White House is.

Ben Ferguson (32:19)

Yeah, and I think we should end with this. James Comer took to the floor of the House. This is the man that's been digging into all this. He's been a guest on on Verdict. There's a two part series. You can go back and listen to it. But I want you to hear what he had to say on the floor of the House. Just as a remind, Kentucky is recognized for three minutes.

D (32:37)

Thank you, Chairman Cole. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to support House Resolution 918. Joe Biden has repeatedly lied to the American people about his family's corrupt influence peddling schemes. He told the American people he never spoke to his son about his family's business dealings. He claimed there was an absolute wall between his official government duties as Vice President and his family. He said his family never made money from China. All of these are blatant lies. Our investigation has revealed how Joe Biden knew of, participated in and benefited from his family cashing in on the Biden name around the world. Since January, we have learned some of the. The Bidens created 20 shell companies, most of which were created while Joe Biden was Vice President. The Bidens and their associates then raked in over $24 million through these shell companies from China, Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan and Romania between 2014 and 2019. At least 10 members of the Biden family have benefited or participated in these schemes. The Bidens layered these payments through their bank accounts to hide the sources of the money. The banks even flagged many of these transactions in more than 150 suspicious activity reports to the Treasury Department. One bank investigator was so concerned about Hunter Biden's financial transactions with the Chinese company that he wanted to reevaluate the bank's relationship with with him. He noted that his transactions served, and I quote, no current business purpose. End quote. That's what I call a shell company. According to Devin Archer, a Biden family associate, Joe Biden was the brand of the business. The brand showed up. Joe Biden spoke to his son's associates by speakerphone over 20 times, dined with foreign oligarchs and a Burisma executive, and had coffee with his son's Chinese associate, all when he was Vice President. Weeks after Joe Biden left the Vice presidency, money from this Chinese Communist Party linked entity began to make its way to the bank accounts of several Biden family members. Based on one Biden associate's interview with the FBI, these payments were sent to the Bidens as a quote, thank you. Ask any Justice Department public corruption investigator about the implementation importance of payments received after one leaves public office. It's a hallmark of corruption. We are now at a pivotal moment in our investigation. We will soon depose and Interview several members of the Biden family and their associates about these influence peddling schemes. But we are facing obstruction from the White House. The White House is seeking to block key testimony from current and former White House staff. It's also withholding thousands of records from Joe Biden's time as Vice President. Gentlemen must be held accountable for his last corruption and obstruction. I urge my colleagues to support this important and necessary resolution.

Ben Ferguson (35:51)

I yield back, Senator. I think you and I both can say listening to him lay that out, thank goodness we've got people in the Republican movement, the conservative movement, like James Comer, who've been willing to do this hard work and methodically do it the right way.

Senator Ted Cruz (36:06)

Yes. And that's more substance than MSNBC has aired in a year. Like those three minutes that they can claim no evidence because they won't air that. They don't actually want you to hear what the evidence is. They only want their talking heads that are shilling for a corrupt White House. And it's look, that's why verdict. So many listeners keep coming to verdict because you find out information here that the corporate media will not tell you. And this, this podcast is designed to give you that information and equip you to go talk with your friends and family and loved ones and co workers and go engage the lies and counter them with truth.

Ben Ferguson (36:42)

Absolutely. Don't forget we do this show Monday, Wednesday and Fridays. Make sure you hit that subscribe or follow button. The algorithms have changed on Apple. A lot of you have by default kind of unfollowed the show. You may not even realize that. So make sure you check if you're listening on Apple and hit that follow button. You'll have to check back every couple of weeks. They have changed it up. It's frustrating, but it's their new algorithm. It's just how it works. So make sure you follow that as well. And don't forget if you miss some shows during the week. We have our weekend review on Saturdays as well for the highlights of some of the biggest things you may have missed during the week. It also helps us on the charts now more than ever with Apple if you will write us a five star review that helps us reach people with these new algorithm changes. It's more important than ever. So if you'll do that for us as well, we greatly appreciate it and the center and I will see you back here in a couple of days.