Inside El Salvador's CECOT Prison for MS-13 Gang Members, plus Stopping China from Having Control of the Panama Canal

Summary

Podcast Summary: The 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson

Episode: Inside El Salvador's CECOT Prison for MS-13 Gang Members, plus Stopping China from Having Control of the Panama Canal

Air Date: August 29, 2025
Host: Ben Ferguson (Premiere Networks)
Guest: Senator Ted Cruz

---

Brief Overview

This episode features Senator Ted Cruz’s firsthand account from his recent Congressional delegation (CODEL) trip through Latin America, with a deep dive into El Salvador’s CECOT maximum security prison for MS-13 and Barrio 18 gang members, and an analysis of China’s influence at the Panama Canal. The conversation offers exclusive behind-the-scenes insights into security, criminal justice, and international strategic threats facing the U.S.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. El Salvador’s Transformation and the CECOT Prison Tour

[00:53]–[29:06]

Dramatic Drop in Crime

• Senator Cruz recounts his meeting with President Nayib Bukele and tours of the CECOT prison.
• Cites El Salvador’s murder rate dropping from "the highest on planet Earth—100 murders per 100,000" to 1.9 per 100,000—making it “one of the safest countries on earth and indeed significantly safer than the United States.” (Ted Cruz, 00:53)

Inside CECOT: Maximum Security for Gang Leaders

• CECOT’s capacity: 40,000 prisoners; currently houses ~20,000. Built specifically for the estimated number of El Salvador’s most dangerous gang members.

• Unique features:

  • Cell phone jamming: "There are no cell phones. ... what El Salvador’s government has done is imposed massive fines on the cell phone companies, if even a single call goes through from the prison." (Ted Cruz, 04:59)
  • Fines are steep: "$100,000 per violation." (Ted Cruz, 04:59)
  • Entry is strictly controlled with layers of concrete walls, gates, barbed and electrified wire, and advanced screening—“like an airlock.”
  • “I've never seen anything like this ... it is not ... designed so there ain't nobody getting out." (Ted Cruz, 07:34)

• Prison units:

  • Eight units of 5,000 prisoners each.
  • "Each of the cells holds 100 prisoners ... four sets of long bunk beds go up four levels high ... made out of stainless steel. There are no sheets, there are no blankets, there are no pillows." (Ted Cruz, 07:34)
  • “They are in those cells 23 hours a day.” (Ted Cruz, 12:00)

• Surveillance and Discipline:

  • Constant monitoring: "Prison guards are standing there holding machine guns, watching them through the front of the bars." (Ted Cruz, 12:00)
  • “The lights are on 24 hours a day.” (Ted Cruz, 12:49)
  • Only out one hour/day for group calisthenics and mandatory religious instruction.

Deterrence and Effectiveness

• Mixing rival gangs, not separating them:
  • “If you put all the MS-13 gang members in one prison, they end up operating the gang out of there ... In this case ... they mix gang members in the same cell.” (Ted Cruz, 19:14)
• Outcome: Near elimination of prison violence and gang activity—“The answer was essentially none” regarding violence, including rape, due to constant surveillance and discipline. (Ted Cruz, 14:05)

Humanization: Interview with an MS-13 Gang Member

• Unique moment: Cruz converses with a Texas-born, English-speaking MS-13 inmate.
  • Gang initiation: “In the United States, to become an MS-13 member, you have to murder someone. … in El Salvador ... you had to commit 10 murders.” (Ted Cruz, 21:03)
  • The inmate, deported from the U.S., admits to murder in El Salvador and alludes to crimes in America without giving explicit details; expresses relief his own son does not have to join a gang:
    • “God no. ... my son is living here now and it's safe and he doesn't have to join a gang.” (Ted Cruz, 25:20)
• Reflections on gang life: “You had two options, kill or die. That's what life was as a gang member.” (Ted Cruz, 26:47)
• Cruz concludes: “Any gang member ... their life is effectively over.” (Ted Cruz, 27:49)

---

2. Strategic Threat at the Panama Canal: China’s Growing Influence

[29:06]–[36:54]

Panama Canal’s Importance

• Cruz emphasizes importance for U.S. trade and the military:
  • “If, God forbid, we find ourselves in a military conflict with China ... If China is in an active military conflict with the United States ... China would try to shut down the Panama Canal ... it massively delays our ability to move military ships from the Atlantic to the Pacific.” (Ted Cruz, 32:54)
• China controls two major ports at the Pacific mouth, is building a bridge, and tunneling a metro route—direct involvement at critical transit nodes.

U.S.–Panama Relations & Security Concerns

• Notable quote:
  • “You need to get the Chinese the hell out of here. Do not leave them in a position where they can shut down this canal. ... It would be an enormous economic and national security blow to the United States, but it would also be an enormous blow to Panama.” (Ted Cruz, 35:50)
• U.S. Senate Commerce Committee’s jurisdiction; recent attempts to facilitate the purchase of Chinese-owned ports by U.S. businesses.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On cell phone jamming and discipline:
  “At the Cecot prison, there are no cell phones. The cell phones are jammed. ... $100,000 per violation.” —Ted Cruz, [04:59]

• On the change in El Salvador:
  “Last year the murder rate was 1.9 murders per 100,000 people, making it one of the safest countries on earth and indeed significantly safer than the United States.” —Ted Cruz, [00:53]

• On prison conditions:
  “I have to say, I cannot imagine life. It is hell on earth. ... It pales in comparison to what I observed there.” —Ted Cruz, [18:55]

• On mixing gangs:
  “Previously, prisons had separated each gang ... In this instance, they don't do that. ... these gangs ... are murdering each other. ... and they're suddenly locked together in a cell.” —Ted Cruz, [19:14]

• Gang life reality:
  “You had two options, kill or die. That's what life was as a gang member.” —MS-13 inmate via Ted Cruz, [26:47]

• On his inmate interview:
  “He said, I'll never see my wife again. I will never see my children again. ... there was a despair. ... this is a human being whose entire life is just a waste.” —Ted Cruz, [25:20]–[27:47]

• China and national security (Panama Canal):
  “If China is in an active military conflict with the United States ... and they shut down the Panama Canal ... it massively delays our ability to move military ships ... and would be an enormous economic and national security blow.” —Ted Cruz, [32:54]–[35:50]

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Description | Timestamp | |---|---|---| | CECOT prison tour—overall summary | 04:59–07:34 | | Detailed cell/prison conditions | 07:34–12:00 | | Surveillance & violence prevention in prison | 12:00–14:05 | | Mixing gangs, rationale | 19:14–21:03 | | Inmate interview—MS-13 perspective | 21:03–27:47 | | Reflections on rehabilitation, deterrence | 27:47–28:52 | | Panama Canal strategic overview | 29:06–32:54 | | China’s control and potential security threat | 32:54–36:54 |

---

Episode’s Language and Tone

Senator Cruz provides vivid, detailed descriptions peppered with real-world observations, focusing on security, law enforcement, and the stark reality of gang life. The tone is blunt, direct, and often grave, especially when describing CECOT’s inescapability and the implications for U.S. policy, making this an episode that mixes hard policy analysis with gripping storytelling.

---

Conclusion

Senator Cruz’s firsthand reporting provides a rare glimpse into a radically effective—and harsh—approach to organized crime, underscored by grave concerns about Chinese influence in Panama. The episode serves as a cautionary tale and a policy case study with implications for U.S. security and law enforcement, making it a must-listen for anyone interested in international affairs, crime, and national defense.

Transcript

[Ted Cruz]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Chumba Casino Announcer]

Chu Chu Chu Cha Chumba Looking for excitement? Chumba Casino is here. Play anytime, play anywhere. Play on the train, play at the store. Play at home. Play when you're bored. Play today for your chance to win and get daily bonuses when you log in.

[Ted Cruz]

So what are you waiting for?

[Chumba Casino Announcer]

Don't delay. Chumba Casino is free to play.

Experience social gameplay like never before. Go to Chumba Casino right now to play hundreds of games including online slots, bingo, Slingo and more. Live the chumba [e-mail] no purchase necessary.

[Ted Cruz]

VGW Group void where prohibited by law 21/ Terms and conditions apply welcome.

[Ben Ferguson]

It is vertic with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you and it's really nice to have you with us wherever you are around the country. We have got a lot to chat about on today's show as you send her have been on a codel in Latin America.

[Ted Cruz]

Well that's exactly right. I left several days ago, spent two days in El Salvador and then went to Panama and went and toured the Panama Canal in El Salvador. I sat down with the President of El Salvador, President Bukele had a one on one meeting with him. The results he has produced are extraordinary. We talked about that on Wednesday's podcast how El Salvador went from having the highest murder rate on planet Earth of 100 murders per 100,000 people to the murder rate plummeting 98%. Last year the murder rate was 1.9 murders per 100,000 people, making it one of the safest countries on earth and indeed significantly safer than the United States. That result is extraordinary and what I did this week is I actually toured the Secot prison, the prison where El Salvador is putting Ms. 13 and Barrio 18 gang members. It was astonishing. I'm going to bring you inside that prison. I'm going to tell you exactly what I saw. I also spent a day and a half in Panama meeting with senior government officials in Panama and went and toured the Panama Canal, saw firsthand how the Panama Canal operates and saw one of the two Chinese ports that is right at the Pacific mouth of the Panama Canal. I'm going to tell you what I saw on the ground and what the real threat is to American national security and American commerce from China having a decisive position on the Panama Canal. All of that we're going to bring inside.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, it's really incredible. Want to tell you real quick about our friends over at Patriot Mobile. I realize there are so many choices when it comes to who you choose for your cell phone service. But why not make a difference with every call you make, with every text you send, with every bill you pay, that is what Patriot Mobile does. They are standing in the gap and they're telling conservatives just like you you've got an option you don't have to be with big Mobile that is pushing a woke radical agenda. You may not realize it, but big Mobile gives massive donations to democratic causes, candidates and organizations, including organizations like Planned Parenthood. And that is why you need to look at Patriot Mobile. Not only are they leading the way in the red economy, but Patriot Mobile also out gains the competition when it comes to technology. This is the part that you're going to love as well. Patriot Mobile is one of the only carriers with access to all three major US Networks. That means you get amazing nationwide coverage along with the ability to have multiple numbers on different networks on a single smartphone. It's a game changer. If you're walking around with two phones at work and a personal phone, you don't have to do that anymore. Call Patriot Mobile. They also offer unlimited data plans, mobile hotspots, international roaming and Internet backup and so much more. And switching's never been easier. You can activate literally in minutes from the comfort of your home. Keep your number, keep your phone or upgrade to a new one. Here's the best part. About 5% of your bill every month goes back at no extra cost to you to support first and second amendment organizations and groups. It supports the rights of unborn children organizations. And they stand with our veterans, our wounded warriors and our fallen soldiers to help their families in need. So make a difference with every call you make. Go online. I'm going to give you a free month of service. Patriot mobile. That's patriotmobile.com verdict or 972-patriot use a promo code verdict. You get a free month of service. That's 972 Patriot promo code verdict for a free month of service. Patriot mobile.com verdict. All right. So Senator, let's start with the big part of your trip. You mentioned a moment ago you actually went in and saw the prison that everybody's been talking about.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, I did the sneecot prison El Salvador built to house the very worst gang members. It's a maximum security prison. It has the capacity of 40,000 prisoners and they built it with that capacity because that was their estimate of the gang members that they were looking at that they wanted to incapacitate. I drove from the capital city, San Salvador. It is 45 minutes to an hour to get to the prison. I drove to the prison. One of the things that is striking as you're pulling up to the prison that they instruct you, turn your cell phone off, put it on airplane mode. And the reason is there are no cell phones. And in fact, they have jammers in the prison. And so unlike most prisons, if not every prison on the planet, where prisoners frequently smuggle in cell phones, often with the complicity of prison guards, at the Cecot prison, there are no cell phones. The cell phones are jammed. And in fact, what the El Salvador's government has done is imposed massive fines on the cell phone companies, if any even a single call goes through from the prison. And so the cell phone companies, to avoid and the fines, if I remember correctly what the Justice Minister said to me, it is $100,000 per violation. So it can rack up very, very quickly. Ten calls is a million bucks, which means the cell phone companies don't want a single call coming out of that prison. And as a result, the prison is totally locked down.

[Ben Ferguson]

So we drove to the prison, something like that, by the way, and you sit there and you're like, wait, why aren't we doing that here? Right? Like, why aren't we doing things like this? To make prison not like an easy place and to make sure that exactly, as you just mentioned, this stuff doesn't happen in America. That's. I love when you hear other ideas from other countries like this.

[Ted Cruz]

Yeah, I have to admit, I thought about the cell phone blockers and I've been supportive of legislation to increase the punishment for having a cell phone in US Prisons because you end up having gangs and drugs. And many of the worst criminals in America are operating out of prisons and are in inflicting enormous violence on civilian populations outside of prison. And so that's certainly a lesson I think we can learn in terms of how to be more effective shutting off the means of communication.

[Ben Ferguson]

So you go from there, you see this, and then what happens next?

[Ted Cruz]

All right, so you drive up to, first of all, a massive steel gate and concrete walls. Concrete walls that go up, I'd say about 30ft. And then on top of the concrete walls is barbed wire. And then on top of the barbed wire is electrified wire. So it's an imposing front entrance that you come to it. You then go through these giant steel doors. You go through a second set of giant steel doors. You go in. It's very much at this prison, like an airlock, where you go in. We were in a bus and we got out of the bus and we went in where they require Every prison guard every day to go through, and they go through a metal detector. They. It's very much like going into an airport where you go through a metal detector. You scan any bag you have with you. And then they have a scanner, an X ray machine designed to find things that are even within body cavities, if you've ingested anything. I mean, it is. It was impressive technology that every guard is required to go through every day when they walk in. I will say they didn't make me go through those scans. So I guess that there are some benefits to being part of the United States government. I was there with the Justice Minister who was giving me the tour himself. So I guess they were not terribly worried about my having swallowed balloons with heroin in them or having a shank concealed somewhere. I had neither, but I was glad that they did not check. So I went into the main prison and you drive and you have a whole series that. There's a gate, there's another gate. There's another gate. And their walls. It's a little bit like the opening of Get Smart where you go through gate after gate after gate. It's a whole series of walls and barbed wire. And I mean, it's imposing. I mean, it is not. It is designed so there ain't nobody getting out. I asked them if they had anyone escape. They said, never had anyone escape. I believe them. And I believe them because what I saw, Ben, I've never seen anything like this. So they have eight units that are built. Each of the units is designed to house 5,000 prisoners. That's why the capacity is 40,000 prisoners. They're at about 50% capacity right now. They're just under 20,000 prisoners that are there right now. So I went into one of the eight units. In that unit, they have a series of massive cells. Each of the cells holds 100 prisoners. Now, the cells that hold 100 prisoners, they have four sets of long bunk beds that go up four levels high. So these cells are, I don't know, probably 30ft up in the air. I mean, they're in terms of height, they're high cells. And they have these bunk beds. The bunk beds are made out of stainless steel. So the prisoners, you walk in and you see 100 prisoners sitting on these bunk beds. And these bunk beds are stainless steel. There are no sheets, there are no blankets, there are no pillows. It is 100 prisoners. They're dressed in white. They're dressed in white kind of loose fitting shorts and T shirts. And they are sitting there on these bunk beds four levels up. So the fourth level up is. I don't know, it's north of 20ft up. I mean, you have to climb up a ladder to get on it. And so you just see 100 prisoners. And you have to envision almost all of these. So they're all adults. This prison does not have any juveniles. No one under 18 is there, and there are no women there. So these are all men. And they're overwhelmingly young men. I would say they're overwhelmingly 18 to 35. And they're all gang members. And there's no subtlety about this. In fact, at one point in one of the cells, they had the prisoners come forward, they instructed them remove their T shirts. And you could see them remove their T shirts. And all of them had gang tattoos on them. And. And it wasn't subtle. It was a giant Ms. 13, like, across their chest. I mean, it's not.

[Ben Ferguson]

They're proud of. It's a rite of passage. They're not trying to hide.

[Ted Cruz]

Was. There was no ambiguity. And. And the prisoners, 23 hours a day, they are in those cells. And in front of the cells are prison guards. The prison guards are standing there holding machine guns, watching them through the front of the bars. Above the prison cell is. There's a whole level above the prison cell, and it. And it's basically bars on top as well. And so they're prison guards on top of the prison cell looking down on them. So unlike, you know, you and I have both seen a lot of prison movies where people are off in dark corners and doing things in their cells where they can't be seen.

[Ben Ferguson]

Sure.

[Ted Cruz]

These prisoners are being monitored constantly. The lights are on 24 hours a day. They do not turn the lights off. And they have prison guards with machine guns watching them 20, 24 hours a day. They allow the prisoners out of their cells for an hour a day. And they allow them in small groups of about 20, so it's not very many. And the small groups come out and they do 30 minutes of calisthenics. The calisthenics are led by a prison employee. And it's so they don't have weight, equipment or anything else, but they're doing kind of stretches and jumping jacks and various calisthenics. And then they have 30 minutes of religious instruction. And I asked, I said, okay, are those optional or mandatory? They said, no, they're mandatory. And so other than that one hour, the remaining 23 hours a day, they're in that cell. I will tell you. I asked the Justice Minister I asked the head of the prison, who was also with me and giving you the tour, I said, you know, I asked art, how much violence do you have? The answer was essentially none. That, and you could see it. I mean, given that the why is.

[Ben Ferguson]

That they're afraid of the consequences. Like, explain the logic behind the reason why there's virtually none.

[Ted Cruz]

Look, I don't know. I'm just telling you what they told me. Yeah, I asked about prison rape. Look, tragically, in virtually every prison on Earth, rape is a significant risk. It happens with far too common frequency. They said it didn't happen there, that they did not deal with prison rape. And I don't know that I entirely believe that, but I gotta say, I mostly believe that because prison rape normally occurs where you have prisoners that are out of view of anyone and able to be somewhere where someone can be the victim of sexual assault. In this instance, when you have prison guards with machine guns watching you at every moment, there's not a lot of capacity to engage in an act of violence. The following is an ad paid for by Kirk Elliot Precious Metals.

[Ben Ferguson]

Hey, everybody, it's Ben Ferguson here, and let's talk real for a second. If you're feeling uneasy about the economy, inflation, or what's happening in Washington, you're not alone. And that's why I decided to bring on a good friend of mine, Dr. Kurt Elliott from. From Kurt Elliott Precious Metals. Kurt, welcome.

[Dr. Kurt Elliott]

Thanks, Ben. Always a pleasure to talk with you.

[Ben Ferguson]

So, look, people are watching the retirement accounts shrink. The dollar is losing value. What are you telling folks right now?

[Dr. Kurt Elliott]

You know, Ben, what I share with people is pretty straightforward. When uncertainty rises, it's smart to invest in something tangible, something real. Gold and silver have weathered storms for generations. They're not just a hedgehog, they're a foundation. When everything else feels shaky, that's why more people are reaching out to us now. Not for hype, just for steady answers.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, I've seen it for myself. You guys make it incredibly easy. You walk people through everything step by step. And that's important.

[Dr. Kurt Elliott]

Absolutely. Whether you're just getting started or have years of experience, we make it simple. We focus on the relationship with our client. Clear and transparent pricing, and you'll always know exactly what you're getting. No surprises, no pressure. And if it's right for you, we can help you roll over part of your IRA or 401k into physical metals.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, that's really a big deal. And the question is, how do people get started?

[Dr. Kurt Elliott]

Just go to kepm.com, ben, or call us at 720-605-3900. Ask any question on your mind. Our team is here to help you protect what you've worked so hard to build with zero pressure. Just real guidance. And this is just the beginning. You're never going to be alone on the journey moving forward. The journey is about the relationship to us, not just the transaction.

[Ben Ferguson]

So if you've been thinking about securing your future, now's the time to do it. I trust Kirk and you can too. Visit kepm.comben that's kepm.comben or 720-605-3900 today.

[Dr. Kurt Elliott]

Thanks Ben. I appreciate your trust. We're here to help people move forward with confidence no matter what the headlines say or the world throws at us.

[Lisa Booth]

This is Lisa Booth from the Truth with Lisa Booth who's really on your side when it comes to your health Insurance companies? Pharmacies that refuse valid prescriptions? Not a chance. The truth is our healthcare system is broken. That's why more people are turning to all family pharmacy and independent pharmacy. That's actually on your side. The right side. They fight for your medical freedom, making it simple to get the treatments you trust without the insurance run around right now. Ivermectin and Me Bendazole are 25% off starting at just $2 a capsule and you can save another 10% with code USA10. Choose from over 200 medications, antibiotics, hydroxychloroquine, NAD plus methylene blue, antivirals and more. All with a doctor's prescription included and shipped straight to your door. Go to AllFamilyPharmacy.com USA and use code USA10. Again that's AllFamilyPharmacy.comUSA and use code USA10. If you believe in medical freedom, well this is your pharmacy.

[Chumba Casino Announcer]

How to have Fun anytime anywhere. STEP 1 Go to chumbacasino.com chumbacasino.com Got it. STEP 2 Collect your welcome Bonus.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Come to Papa. Welcome bonus.

[Chumba Casino Announcer]

Step 3 Play hundreds of Casino style Games for Free.

[Ryan Seacrest]

That's a lot of games all for free.

[Chumba Casino Announcer]

Step 4 Unleash youh Excitement Woo Hoo. Chumba Casino has been delivering thrills for over a decade. So claim your free welcome bonus now and live the Chumba Life Life. Visit champacasino.com no purchase necessary VGW Group.

[Ted Cruz]

Void where prohibited by law 21/ Terms.

[Ben Ferguson]

And conditions apply I want to go back to what you were talking about. The conditions there and also the rules and how they're running their prisons down there in A way that I'm kind of jealous that we're not doing it here.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, you mentioned that it is designed to make. Make life unpleasant. And I will say, look, it's clearly designed, incapacitated, and it's doing that incredibly effectively. They've taken the murderers off the streets, but it is also designed. Listen, I've been to prisons before in Texas. I've been to the prison in Huntsville. I've been to death row in Huntsville. When I was the solicitor general of Texas, there were multiple legal challenges to the method of capital punishment in Texas. And I was defending that. I was defending that in federal court. So I felt an obligation to. That I needed to go and personally observe an execution. That I couldn't do my job effectively and litigate defending the method that Texas used for capital punishment unless I observed it myself. So I went there. I was behind the scenes and saw how capital punishment was executed. And I will tell you, look, being in a Texas prison is no walk in a park, to put it mildly. But it pales in comparison to what I observed there. I have to say, I cannot imagine life. It is hell on earth. It is. You are locked up every minute of the day. Now, you're not subjected, assuming the reports from the head of the prison is accurate, you're not subjected to violence and threats. And by the way, one of the things they do. So previously, prisons had separated each gang, so they'd send Ms. 13 to 1 and 18th Street Barrio to another. In this instance, they don't do that. In fact, they mix gang members, multiple gang members in the same cell. And part of the reason for that is they said, look, if you put all the Ms. 13 gang members in one prison, they end up operating the gang out of there and it becomes a safe haven. And in this case. And by the way, these gangs, they're not just sort of rivals. It's not like, you know, the Yankees and the Mets. I mean, they are murdering each other.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ted Cruz]

Like, if they see each other in the street, they open fire and they're suddenly locked together in a cell. So the hundred prisoners in a cell and I saw, like, lined up, you would see them. The main ones were Ms. 13 and 18th street barrio. And you would see the tats, and they're all together. And they had to learn, like, they're going to be locked up in the same cage together for a long time. I saw several prisoners. I'm going to tell you in a minute about an extended conversation I had with an MS.13 gang member which, which, Which Was chilling. But I will say I saw several, several prisoners. There was one they showed me that had a prison sentence of over 1,000 years.

[Ben Ferguson]

Wow.

[Ted Cruz]

So he had been convicted of over six homicides. At least six. And one of the things the justice minister said to me about Ms. 13, he said, in the United States, to become an Ms. 13 member, you have to murder someone. That is the process of admission. You cannot be admitted to the gang if you don't kill somebody. What the justice minister told me is in El Salvador, to be a member of the gang, you had to commit 10 murders. So one of the things he described to me, he said, listen, these people are serial killers. They are mass murderers. And the reason the crime rate plummeted is because they took all the mass murderers off the street. They took the gang members and gang activity is essentially non existent. And so like I, like I had dinner in down downtown San Salvador, a very nice restaurant, a steak restaurant there. And, and the folks I was having dinner with, it was a cabinet member I was having dinner with. And she said, look, it used to be a few years ago, nobody would come here at night because you would be robbed, you would be kidnapped, you'd be murdered. And I'll tell you, when I came to downtown, downtown was beautiful. There were families, there were kids playing like, like it was transformational. And this prison and this zero tolerance, they went after and they arrested, they put in jail all the gang members. They said, if you join the gang, it is a terrorist organization. To join the gang, you are a murderer. And we are taking off the street. And the success of it is incredible. But they gave me an opportunity to visit with, with an MS.13 gang member who was from Texas. And so they pulled him aside because he was from Texas. And they said, you may want to talk with him. And so I did. I talked with him for quite a bit of time. He was in his early 40s. He had lived much of his life in the United States. So he had perfect English and he had lived in Dallas for many years as an MS.13 gang member. And he described how he had grown up in Virginia and he'd lived in Virginia and Maryland and D.C. and he said that he became an Ms. 13 gang member when he was 13 years old in Falls Church, Virginia. And he described, I said, well, how did you come to be at this prison? And he said, well, I was deported. So he was illegally in the United States. He said, I was deported, I was sent back to El Salvador. And he said, I committed a homicide here and was convicted of Homicide. So he murdered someone in El Salvador, at least one person. And he admitted to it. He was not hiding it. He's like, yeah, I committed a homicide and that's why I'm here. And I said, well, did you commit crimes in the United States? He said, yes, yes I did. And I said, well, what crimes did you commit? Did you commit murder in the United States? And he wouldn't answer. And it was clear, look, he hadn't been convicted of murder in the United States. But he said, well, I committed crimes. But he didn't want to answer the specific question. And it was interesting. The justice minister was standing there with me and he chimed in and he pressed again, he said, look, did you commit homicide in the United States? Tell us. And his response? He said, well, you know how you become a member of Ms. 13? So he did.

[Ben Ferguson]

I mean, yeah, that's about as honest of an answer you're gonna get, right?

[Ted Cruz]

Yeah, yeah. He, he said he became a member when he was 13 and the way you become a member is you murder some. And he'd been in Virginia at extended times, he'd been in, in Dallas as a gang member. So I don't know. He may have murdered Texans. He did not, he did not detail. And he was covered in tats. And you know, he was a. And I talked to him and he had a 40 year sentence, so he will get out in his 80s. And, and I was asking about that. And he has a family, he has a wife and he has two kids, he has a daughter and he has a 13 year old son that they're all in El Salvador. And I asked him, I said, okay, Your son is 13. He's the same age you were when you joined Ms. 13 asked, do you want him to join the gang? And he looked at me horrified. He said, no. God no. And, and he had a comment, it was a weird comment where he said, look, my son is living here now and it's safe and he doesn't have to join a gang. And it was. This is someone whose entire life is going to be in a cage in a hole. And by the way, he said, I'll never see my wife again. I will never see my children again again. But like, there's no, there's no visitation, there's no. He is locked in a cage with 99 other gang members for the rest of his life.

[Ben Ferguson]

Wow.

[Ted Cruz]

And, and there, look, there was a despair. And I asked him, I said, look, you became, you joined the gang at 13. What, why'd you join the gang? He Said, look, all my friends were, Everyone I knew was, that was the world I was in, that you joined the gang, you joined the gang, you survived. And I asked him, I said, well, if you wanted to, could you quit? Let's say you were 15 or 16 or 17. You said, all right, I'm done. He said, no, there's no way to quit. He said, you had two options, kill or die. That's what life was as a gang member. And I have to say, listen, this is someone who I assume has committed multiple murders. He admitted to at least two. One in El Salvador and at least one in the United States. And it may have been many more. And so I'm very glad he's incarcerated and not murdering people anymore. But I will say, you know, I mean, I felt a sadness that this is a human being whose entire life is just a waste.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Ted Cruz]

And it was. And the sentiment he expressed, I mean, he really did express joy is the wrong word for it, but I'd say gratitude that his 13 year old son does not have to live in a world. And he had basically said, look, El Salvador is much safer than it's ever been. I mean, he was almost saying it's a good thing he's in prison. He didn't quite say that, but when he was talking about his son, that's basically what he was saying. And that I gotta say, look, in U.S. prisons, they'll let you read books, they'll let you know, watch tv, they'll let you lift weights, they'll let you play basketball, they'll let you play sports, you socialize. And there's, there may be some virtue to that, but I gotta say, any gang members. Gang activity has disappeared in El Salvador. And if you knew what life was like for these guys, there's no way on earth you'd be willing to join a gang because their life is effectively over.

[Ben Ferguson]

One of the other parts of your trip involved going to the Panama Canal and seeing some different things, including a lot that deals with China. Now it's been a big concern. Talk about that.

[Ted Cruz]

Yeah. So I spent a day and a half in Panama. I flew from El Salvador to Panama and met with, with, with multiple cabinet members, the finance minister, the defense minister, the public safety minister, and the head of the Panama Canal. And I will say, number one, Panama is a beautiful country. It is a gorgeous place. And the people of Panama have a deep affinity for America. I was struck by that. You know, they repeatedly, the government officials, the Panamanians that I visited with, there's a long history And a close, close affinity for the United States. The Panama Canal is amazing. So I went out on a boat and went to the outer parts of the Panama Canal and then I went to one of the locks and I saw one of the Panamax, like the super tankers coming through and then also saw a little sailboat coming through and then a kind of medium sized container ship coming through. It is amazing. It is like, it is very cool. Number one, just how the Panama Canal operates. Like you see the Panamax, the supertanker, the container ship is the largest size possible to fit through the Panama Canal. And it's built for that size. I mean, it is literally this massive ship that is going through these locks. And these locks have concrete on the side and, and it's built so the sides of the ship are within 2ft of the concrete walls on both sides. Like it's that big. And what happens? So we were on the Pacific end of the canal and a ship comes in and each of the locks has to lower the ship 27ft so it comes into the locks. And it's interesting for the big tanker, they connect steel cables to the tanker and they have locomotives on both sides to help keep, keep the ship right in the center. You've got only two feet of clearance on both sides. So it'd be really easy for it to smack into the side of the canal and it is in the lock. And then it takes about eight to 10 minutes for the water to drain and for it to lower 27ft. And it's lowering 27ft and it goes to the next lock and it lowers another. I believe it's 27ft, all told. It's about, I think it's 81ft that it has to rise to get to the height of the lake in the interior. And then it has to lower to get to the Atlantic Ocean and the Pacific Ocean. And both the Atlantic and Pacific are about the same distance. To lower the water 27ft takes 8 to 10 minutes. And so the water goes down and then the giant gates open. It was amazing to watch the technology. I saw the old control room, I saw the control room where the lock is being operated. The old control room. So the Panama Canal was built in 1914. The United States built it and we lost thousands and thousands of lives building it. It's an incredible engineering marvel. So the old control room had these brass GE equipment. You saw the old ge, General Electric, they built one of the first early computers to help operate the locks. It's amazing. Now, now it's all computerized and high tech. So the. The old brass controls of each lock that gives you the water height. And it was literally. It almost looked like something Captain Nemo would have in terms of the 1914 levers and switches to operate the canal that's still preserved there. When I went out on the boat, one of the things I saw, Ben, is right at the entrance, the Pacific entrance of the canal. There is a gigantic port that is owned and controlled by Communist China. And it's right there. And they have cranes. They're right there in a position. There is also. China is building a bridge, a bridge across the canal. It is a bridge for cars. They were awarded the contract to build the bridge. China is also. There's a Chinese company that is digging a tunnel under the canal for a metro train. And so I saw. I saw where the metro was going to go. I saw the bridge being built, and it's all right there at the mouth of the canal. And I went. The purpose of my visit was to meet with the Panamanian government and say, look, China cannot have control of this canal. It is too important to the United States, to our national security, to our economic security. As you know, I'm the chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee. The Commerce Committee has jurisdiction over the Panama Canal. And so earlier this year, I chaired a hearing on the Panama Canal in the Commerce Committee. And we laid out the concerns, in particular the concerns of China. And what I laid out to the Panamanian officials, I said, look, if, God forbid, we find ourselves in a military conflict with China, let's say next year, China invades Taiwan. And President Xi has repeatedly said he wants to invade Taiwan. If he does so, there's a very real possibility that escalates into a military conflict with the United States. If China is in an active military conflict with the United States, I think the risk is unacceptable that China would try to shut down the Panama Canal. Because if they shut down the Panama Canal, it massively delays our ability to move military ships from the Atlantic to the Pacific to engage with the Chinese in Taiwan, because it forces our military ships instead to go around the southern tip of South America rather than cut through the canal. And so if you're President Xi, look, you wouldn't do it in time of peace. But if they're at war, it becomes a really compelling situation to say, let's impose massive economic harm on the United States and we get enormous benefits. There are billions of dollars of revenue that comes from shipping. Shipping, whether it is, is oil and gas through the Panama Canal or goods and containers. And shutting down the Panama Canal would be a real blow to the United States economy, but it would also be a real blow to our military because it would limit our ability to move naval ships from the Atlantic to Pacific. It would massively delay moving those ships. And so what I'm pressing Panama, I will say when I chaired the hearing on the Panama Canal, within a week, they announced the deal to sell those two Chinese ports to an American business consortium. That deal has not gone through yet. The Chinese are slow walking it. And part of the purpose of my trip was to press the Panamanian government and say, look, you need to get the Chinese the hell out of here. Do not leave them in a position where they can shut down this canal. Because shutting down this canal would be an enormous economic and national security blow to the United States, but it would also be an enormous blow to Panama. And so part of the case I was making them is their interests and our interests are aligned. They don't want China to be in a position to shut down the canal.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, great point. We're going to continue talking about this issue, I can promise you on our podcast, so make sure you download Verdict with Ted Cruz wherever you get your podcast. We do the show as a podcast three days a week, so grab it. You can tell Siri or Alexa, hey, play Verdict with Ted Cruz. That will happen as well. And we hope that you'll join us again next weekend here wherever you're listening to the show, on whatever station you're listening to and the center and I will see you back here on our podcast all week long.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest. Life comes at you fast, which is why it's important to find some time to relax a little you time. Enter Chumba Casino. With no download required. You can jump on anytime, anywhere for the chance to redeem some serious prizes. So treat yourself with Chumba Casino and play over 100 online casino style games, all for free. Go to Chumbacasino.com to collect your free welcome bonus. Sponsored by Chumba Casino.

[Ted Cruz]

No purchase necessary. VGW Group Void. We're prohibited by law 21 + terms and conditions apply.

[Chumba Casino Announcer]

This is an iHeart podcast.