It All Comes Down To This

Summary

Episode Summary: "It All Comes Down To This"
Release Date: February 6, 2020
Podcast: Verdict with Ted Cruz

In the episode titled "It All Comes Down To This," hosted by Senator Ted Cruz alongside political commentator Michael Knowles, the discussion centers around the culmination of President Donald Trump's impeachment trial. The hosts delve into the implications of the final impeachment vote, the partisan dynamics at play, and broader political ramifications affecting both the Democratic and Republican parties. Additionally, the episode touches upon ongoing investigations into Hunter Biden and addresses listener questions, providing insights into the current political landscape.

---

1. Impeachment Vote Outcome and Immediate Reactions

The episode opens with Ted Cruz announcing the conclusion of the impeachment trial:

• [00:00] Ted Cruz: "It all comes down to the final impeachment vote on whether or not to remove President Trump from office."

The verdict is delivered promptly:

• [00:34] Ted Cruz: "The President has not been removed from office."

Michael Knowles immediately reacts to the outcome, highlighting the predictability of the result and its roots in partisan politics:

• [01:05] Michael Knowles: "Impeachment was always a partisan circus, and it was always going to end with acquittal."

He further criticizes the impeachment process as a strategic move by Democrats to appease a fervent base rather than a genuine attempt to convict:

• [01:13] Michael Knowles: "It wasn't about convicting the President. That wasn't the Democrats objective. It was about appeasing their base that hates him."

2. Partisanship and Democratic Strategies

Knowles elaborates on the inherent partisanship of the impeachment trial, drawing parallels with other Democratic actions, such as Nancy Pelosi's reaction to the State of the Union:

• [01:35] Michael Knowles: "Nancy Pelosi ripping the speech in half is the same thing as impeachment. It is all a giant F you apologies to Donald Trump."

Ted Cruz questions the strategic gains Democrats might have sought from such maneuvers, considering the anticipated acquittal:

• [02:03] Ted Cruz: "But then what did they get out of it? I guess if we always knew how it was gonna end and it was always going to be a partisan circus, was there a political victory?"

Knowles responds by asserting that these actions temporarily satisfy the Democratic base, even if they ultimately harm the party's broader political standing:

• [02:13] Michael Knowles: "When you throw blood to the mob, it satiates the mob, at least briefly. Or if nothing else, it gets messy."

He criticizes prominent Democrats like Nancy Pelosi and Jerry Nadler for initially resisting impeachment until their base's pressure became unbearable:

• [02:35] Michael Knowles: "What changed is their base got angrier and angrier and angrier. And ultimately... all of impeachment... is a giant F you apologies to Donald Trump."

3. The Impact of Swing Votes and Senator Romney's Unexpected Stance

The conversation shifts to analyzing the final impeachment vote, highlighting the role of swing senators:

• [04:14] Michael Knowles: "I think that's right. And I think that their base has radicalized and they have no choice but follow them off the cliff."

Cruz points out the surprise element in the voting, particularly focusing on Senator Mitt Romney's decision to break party lines:

• [04:24] Ted Cruz: "There were some surprises today... it was a completely party line vote except for Mitt Romney."

Knowles breaks down the voting dynamics, listing the senators who voted to acquit and those who were expected to follow suit:

• [05:01] Michael Knowles: "We had three Republicans, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, Mitt Romney, and three Democrats, Joe Manchin, Kyrsten Sinema, Doug Jones."

He expresses disappointment over Romney's decision to be the sole Republican to vote guilty on one of the charges:

• [06:34] Michael Knowles: "I think he's wrong. I think he is very mistaken and I think that's unfortunate."

Cruz probes whether Romney's vote might influence other Democrats, to which Knowles responds skeptically:

• [07:38] Ted Cruz: "Do you think Senator Romney's decision influenced some of those other swing votes on the Democratic side?"

• [07:58] Michael Knowles: "That's an interesting question... I don't think so."

4. Reflections on Party Loyalty and Political Integrity

Knowles draws parallels between Senator Romney's vote and past Senate actions, specifically referencing the 2017 Obamacare repeal vote:

• [11:27] Michael Knowles: "John McCain and I became friends. I respect and admire him personally... But I had to turn and walk off the Senate floor because if I had spoken to him that night, it would not have been language suitable for the floor of the United States."

He contrasts this with how senators like Susan Collins maintained honesty with their voters despite disagreeing with party lines:

• [13:12] Michael Knowles: "Susan was honest with her voters. She wasn't out there on the stump saying, if you elect me, I will vote to repeal Obamacare."

This emphasis on integrity underscores Knowles' broader critique of partisan politics, suggesting that Democrats' strategies are damaging their own political fortunes while inadvertently strengthening Republican positions.

5. Hunter Biden Investigation and Political Ramifications

Transitioning from the impeachment discussion, the hosts address the emerging topic of Hunter Biden's potential corruption:

• [15:17] Ted Cruz: "This brings us to another point... Senators Chuck Grassley and Ron Johnson have sent letters to the Secret Service requesting information on Hunter Biden's travel records."

Knowles expresses cautious optimism but highlights the political challenges in pursuing such investigations:

• [16:03] Michael Knowles: "The political appetite for any further investigation diminished dramatically because Joe Biden is in free fall."

He critiques the lack of initiative from Senate committee chairs to advance the investigation, attributing it to Biden's declining political standing:

• [18:48] Michael Knowles: "No committee chairman wants to do it. It's gotta be a committee chairman. I don't care if it's judiciary, foreign relations or intel."

Knowles also emphasizes the importance of the Department of Justice in addressing potential corruption but criticizes its current inaction:

• [19:17] Michael Knowles: "Where's DOJ?... Get wiretapped. You got evidence here of a million bucks a year to the son of the vice president."

6. Listener Engagement and Future Directions

As the episode progresses, the hosts engage with listener questions, reflecting on the podcast's trajectory and responding to suggestions:

• [21:18] Michael Knowles: "We ain't going anywhere, all right? We will keep on going and we're going to keep doing the same thing, which is trying to get to the bottom of issues, trying to engage in substance."

Cruz and Knowles discuss the podcast's commitment to providing in-depth analysis beyond the superficial coverage typical of mainstream media:

• [22:10] Michael Knowles: "Look, people have jobs, they have kids, they have lives... But they do want to understand, all right, what's really going on, what are the facts?"

In addressing a listener’s suggestion for him to take a Supreme Court seat, Knowles firmly declines, emphasizing his dedication to legislative work and training young conservatives:

• [23:22] Michael Knowles: "The short answer is that I'm not interested in doing that."

He reflects on the significance of judicial impartiality and his desire to remain actively involved in the Senate to influence policy directly.

7. Conclusion and Closing Remarks

Ted Cruz wraps up the episode by expressing gratitude to listeners and outlining the podcast's ongoing commitment to providing substantive political commentary:

• [28:12] Ted Cruz: "I am glad you're staying in the fight in both places."

Knowles reaffirms the podcast's mission to address pressing issues with depth and integrity, aiming to offer perspectives not commonly found in other media outlets:

• [21:20] Ted Cruz: "We still have the final verdict on impeachment... to look forward at what is at stake coming up."

The episode concludes with a brief mention of sponsorship, which the hosts ensure to skip as per instructions, focusing instead on the core content delivered throughout the discussion.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• [01:13] Michael Knowles: "Impeachment was always a partisan circus, and it was always going to end with acquittal."

• [01:35] Michael Knowles: "Nancy Pelosi ripping the speech in half is the same thing as impeachment. It is all a giant F you apologies to Donald Trump."

• [05:03] Michael Knowles: "It has helped his numbers."

• [06:34] Michael Knowles: "I think he's wrong. I think he is very mistaken and I think that's unfortunate."

• [13:12] Michael Knowles: "Susan was honest with her voters. She wasn't out there on the stump saying, if you elect me, I will vote to repeal Obamacare."

• [19:17] Michael Knowles: "Where's DOJ?... Get wiretapped. You got evidence here of a million bucks a year to the son of the vice president."

• [23:22] Michael Knowles: "The short answer is that I'm not interested in doing that."

---

Conclusion

"It All Comes Down To This" offers a comprehensive analysis of the political maneuvers surrounding President Trump's impeachment, shedding light on the underlying partisan tensions that influenced the Senate's decision. Ted Cruz and Michael Knowles provide a critical perspective on Democratic strategies, the role of individual senators' votes, and the broader implications for American politics. By addressing contemporary issues like the Hunter Biden investigation and engaging directly with listener inquiries, the episode underscores the hosts' commitment to fostering informed and substantive political discourse.

Transcript

[Ted Cruz]

It all comes down to the final impeachment vote on whether or not to remove President Trump from office. And straight from the Capitol, we have one of the judge jurors. This is verdict with Ted Cruz. The final vote has happened. Can I get a drum roll, please? The President has not been removed from office. Senator, you are so shocked and excited by this news that you're sitting there tweeting during the intro to the show.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, I am. I was just reading a second ago a tweet that says, in other Democratic comments, Representative Sheila Jackson Lee suggests that the Russians may be behind the Iowa Democratic Caucus app debacle. She mentions Russia as she tells FBI Director Chris Wray, I hope the Iowa Democrats will ask for an FBI investigation on the app. And so I just retweeted it and made a very simple observation. Well, Bernie did honeymoon in the Soviet Union.

[Ted Cruz]

So your mind is now past impeachment. The impeachment vote has happened. And it turned out the way that we all knew it was gonna turn out.

[Michael Knowles]

This was the inevitable outcome. Yeah, we knew this in October, we knew this in November, we knew this in December, we knew this in January, we know this in February, and we will know this a hundred years from this. Impeachment was always a partisan circus, and it was always going to end with acquittal. Right. But it wasn't about convicting the President. That wasn't the Democrats objective. It was about appeasing their base that hates him. Impeachment and the Democratic reaction to the State of the Union last night are the same thing. Huh? It's like it's a different part of the identical phenomenon. Nancy Pelosi ripping the speech in half is the same thing as impeachment. It is all a giant F you apologies to Donald Trump. That's what this whole thing was.

[Ted Cruz]

But then what did they get out of it? I guess if we always knew how it was gonna end and it was always a partisan circus, was there a political victory?

[Michael Knowles]

When you throw blood to the mob, it satiates the mob, at least briefly. Or if nothing else, it gets messy. I mean, this was, look, beginning of last year, you had famed centrists like Nancy Pelosi saying, no, no, no, no, we can't do impeachment. It can't be partisan. It'll never succeed.

[Ted Cruz]

Even Nancy Pelosi didn't want to do impeachment.

[Michael Knowles]

You had that wonderful rock of moderation, Jerry Nadler, saying, no, no, no, no, no, we can't do, we can't do impeachment if it's Partisan. So what changed? What changed is their base got angrier and angrier and angrier. And ultimately, listen, I view Nancy Pelosi almost like a hostage tied up in a basement somewhere. A little ironic because we are in fact in a basement right now. But look, she was telling aoc, she was telling the squad, she was telling the fired up Bernie Sanders, Bernistas, no, no, no. And they just couldn't fight him anymore. And so all of impeachment. One of the reasons I think Pelosi was so pissed last night is I think the Democrats have done real political damage to themselves in the last three months and they've strengthened President Trump. I mean it. You know, if I were Donald Trump, I would send a letter to the FEC today, the Federal Election Committee, saying, dear fec, I'd just like clarification. Do I have to declare Nancy Pelosi's actions as an in kind contribution to my reelection campaign?

[Ted Cruz]

It has helped his numbers. So then I guess this is just what's confusing to me. What you're saying is Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats had to go along with impeachment because their fired up base demanded it. But the impeachment has damaged the Democrats and it was always going to damage the Democrats.

[Michael Knowles]

I think that's right. And I think that their base has radicalized and they have no choice but follow them off the cliff.

[Ted Cruz]

Now, there were some surprises today.

[Michael Knowles]

Yep.

[Ted Cruz]

We had been talking about, obviously the President was going to be acquitted, but there were some swing votes in play. Mitt Romney was the biggest one, but also Doug Jones of Alabama, who's a Democrat, also Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona. There were a few other votes in play. It was a completely party line vote except for Mitt Romney.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, let's take each piece of that. So this weekend, as you and I talked about, I thought there were anywhere between 50 and 56 votes for not guilty. We ended up at 52. Sorry about that.

[Ted Cruz]

It's been a long week.

[Michael Knowles]

It has. We ended up at 52. So the six votes that were in play, three Republicans, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, Mitt Romney, and three Democrats, Joe Manchin, Kyrsten Sinema, Doug Jones. I was right that Collins would vote to acquit. I was right that Murkowski would vote to acquit. I was wrong on Mitt. So last podcast we did, I told you I thought Mitt would be a not guilty. I also told you I thought Joe Manchin would be a not guilty.

[Ted Cruz]

Joe Manchin, Democrat from West Virginia.

[Michael Knowles]

From West Virginia. And I Said Sinema might be that she was a plausible not guilty. And I also told you Doug Jones won't be. And Jones, I was exactly right. Jones is running in Alabama. It's a bright red state. Voting for impeachment is a terrible vote for Doug Jones. And I think he doesn't care. He's like the end of Dr. Strangelove. The guy on top of the bomb with a cowboy hat, cheering as it falls. Doug Jones, he's like, I'm losing. And dammit, I am gonna be praised by every liberal in Alabama. There are a few of them, they're not many, but he's gonna be there here.

[Ted Cruz]

Senator, do you know how I know that you are new to political podcasting? Is that you are actually holding up your predictions against reality. Normally we just move right along. Doesn't matter. No accountability. Mitt Romney was the big story, though. Mitt Romney comes out and actually surprised me. We have a clip of it. Mitt Romney declaring why he's gonna vote against President Trump.

[Michael Knowles]

As a senator juror, I swore an oath before God to exercise impartial justice. I am profoundly religious. My faith is at the heart of who I am. The grave question the Constitution tasks senators to answer is whether the President committed an act so extreme and egregious that it rises to the level of a high crime and misdemeanor. Yes, he did.

[Ted Cruz]

Your reaction?

[Michael Knowles]

Look, I think he's wrong. I think he is very mistaken and I think that's unfortunate. I think that is a bad decision. I think it's bad for the country. I think it's bad for Mitt, and I don't think it's consistent with the Constitution. Now, that being said, every senator has to make up his or her mind and that is what Mitt has done. But I think that's a very unfortunate decision.

[Ted Cruz]

Do you think Senator Romney's decision to be the only vote to cross party lines, to. To vote against the president on actually on only one charge, on abuse of power. He voted to acquit the President. On the other charge, obstruction of Congress. But do you think Senator Romney's decision influenced some of those other swing votes on the Democratic side?

[Michael Knowles]

That's an interesting question. And maybe when we started voting. So we voted today at 4. So we all came to the Senate floor. We got there a few minutes early. Mitch McConnell was giving a speech about how impeachment was all nonsense. Yeah. 4:00, the vote comes in. The Chief justice comes and takes the seat, reads the first article. We vote. Now, the way we vote every One of us stands up and votes either guilty or not guilty. Right before that started, it was interesting. Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema hugged each other. And I have to say, Sinema, who I like, I work with her, she looked pale, she looked haggard. I mean, it was noticeable. And I will say another Republican senator was speculating with me if Chuck Schumer had taken them back in his office and strapped them to a chair and taken out a rubber hose on them.

[Ted Cruz]

It seemed as though it was in their personal political interest to vote to acquit the president.

[Michael Knowles]

So what's interesting is when Manchin cast his vote, I leaned over to David Perdue, sits next to me on the, on the Senate floor, and I said, well, Manchin just announced he's not running for reelection.

[Ted Cruz]

That's what it seems like.

[Michael Knowles]

Look, West Virginia, this may be a worse vote for Manchin than it is for Doug Jones. I'd put West Virginia and Alabama side by side in terms of where the voters are on that. And I'm actually not shocked that Manchin would do that. Cause I don't think he actually really likes the Senate. He used to be governor of West Virginia. He liked being governor more. And this was a vote. I don't know how much Schumer pounded them. I actually wonder. The Democrats are much better at party discipline. I don't know what Schumer threatens. I don't know if he did. This is pure speculation, but it wouldn't shock me. So Romney announced earlier this afternoon he was going to be a guilty. And if Schumer hadn't gotten Manchin and or Cinema to flip, then I suspect Romney coming over, Schumer would have said, hey, you can't vote the other way because we need the messaging. I haven't even seen what the Democrats have said, but I'm sure they're all saying it was a bipartisan vote.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, that's what changes. This is why the Romney vote matters, is not because it was going to.

[Michael Knowles]

No, it doesn't.

[Ted Cruz]

You don't think so?

[Michael Knowles]

There are 535 members of the United States Congress throughout this entire show.

[Ted Cruz]

It was a diplomatic choice of words.

[Michael Knowles]

I said the second half of the word. They got one Republican, one out of 535. So you'll forgive me for not being, oh, terribly excited that they got one. This was a partisan endeavor from day one. And the fact that Mitt decided to do what he did. Listen, I don't really want to pound Mitt, frankly, because everyone else on earth is landing on him so hard I.

[Ted Cruz]

Don'T know if you've checked Twitter recently, but it's tough on him.

[Michael Knowles]

But I will say one reaction I have. So I'm reminded of another difficult moment on the Senate floor. By the way, an interesting observation. Mitt, I think, sits at the same desk that I sat in as a freshman. Looking at that image of that clip. That's the same image that's behind me when I'm doing the Obamacare filibuster. He's really junior. He's in the back corner.

[Ted Cruz]

Those were very different speeches.

[Michael Knowles]

Very different. But I was reminded of another deeply disappointing moment on the floor, which was in 2017 when we voted on Obamacare repeal. And you'll recall we came one vote short of Obamacare repeal. Now, there's nothing I have bled more than taking on and trying to repeal Obamacare, and I haven't given up on that yet, just to be clear. But you'll recall three Republicans voted against it. And the last one was John McCain from Arizona, who put his. Put his fist out and sort of wiggled it for a minute and thrust his thumb down. And that was, that was about 2 in the morning. So actually we should have been podcasting. Yeah, that's two in the morning.

[Ted Cruz]

That's podcast.

[Michael Knowles]

We need to own 2:00am you know, it's 2:00am do you know where your senator is?

[Ted Cruz]

They have got to let you get to your second job.

[Michael Knowles]

That is exactly right. So I remember at that moment. And listen, John McCain and I, we became friends. I respect and admire him personally, certainly for his heroism, for his serving his country. But I had to turn and walk off the Senate floor because if I had spoken to him that night, it would not have been language suitable for the floor of the United States.

[Ted Cruz]

It was an infuriating vote.

[Michael Knowles]

But. But I want to draw a distinction. Let me contrast. So someone else. The two other no votes that night were Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski. I had a very different sentiment about McCain's vote than I did about Collins vote. Why? Look, I didn't like how Susan voted, but Susan was honest with her voters. Susan, when she campaigned and was elected in Maine, she never campaigned saying she opposed Obamacare.

[Ted Cruz]

Right. She's a moderate.

[Michael Knowles]

The voters of Maine knew what they were getting. She wasn't out there on the stump saying, if you elect me, I will vote to repeal Obamacare. And so I disagree with her on that issue. But I think being honest with your voters and doing what you told them to is right at the heart of what we're supposed to do. What was so infuriating about McCain's vote. He had just been reelected and he had run ads all across Arizona. John McCain leading the fight to repeal Obamacare. That's why it was so infuriating. And I gotta say about Mitt, this ain't how he campaigned to get elected to Senate. I noticed that if Mitt had wanted to tell the people of Utah, elect me and I will be a check on Donald Trump. I will stand up to Donald Trump. I will be a statesman. And you know what? If people of Utah elected him for that, God bless them.

[Ted Cruz]

But that's not what he.

[Michael Knowles]

But that's not what he told the voters. And it's a pattern. The rage across this country. Washington doesn't get the rage across this country. That rage is what elected Trump is. People were tired of their elected officials telling them one thing.

[Ted Cruz]

Lying to their faces on the campaign.

[Michael Knowles]

It just flat out lying. And then doing exactly the opposite. And that I don't have a problem. I don't have a problem with a Bernie Sanders voting like a socialist. Look, his policies are loony and would destroy the country and the world, but other than that.

[Ted Cruz]

Mrs. Lincoln, how'd you like to play?

[Michael Knowles]

But he tells the people of Vermont that, I don't know, they're cold, they're smoking pot, and they say, that sounds good to us. I don't know. But it's at least honest. I think we need more honesty in politics. And this was not what the people of Utah were talking.

[Ted Cruz]

You know, this actually brings us to another point, kind of wrapping up impeachment. You've talked a lot about Hunter Biden burisma, this corruption on the Democratic side and other senators have gone along with this. But you always wondered if it was just maybe a little more opportunistic, what we've just heard. This is breaking news. Senators Chuck Grassley and Ron Johnson have sent letters to the Secret Service requesting information on Hunter Biden's travel records. Obviously, you have been leading the charge to get to the bottom of this kind of corruption. Are there going to be enough other senators to go along with this to get to the bottom of the Biden potential corruption, or is this just going to be forgotten?

[Michael Knowles]

I hope so. Let me say a couple of things on that one. In the Senate and in the House, I think the political appetite for any further investigation diminished dramatically because Joe Biden is in free fall.

[Ted Cruz]

Fourth in Utah. He's falling in New Hampshire.

[Michael Knowles]

Iowa, actually. Not Utah.

[Ted Cruz]

I'm sorry, I was still so fixated on Senator Romney. Yes, In Iowa.

[Michael Knowles]

Look, they're both states with four letters and lots of vowels, but different. Beautiful but very different.

[Ted Cruz]

I can't believe they say we don't know geography. You know, I don't know why they say that about us conservatives.

[Michael Knowles]

Biden taking force in Iowa, or who knows? I mean, we still don't have results because they still can't count the votes, but it is catastrophic for him. Yeah. What's going on behind the scenes? His donors are in panic. His supporters are in panic. His grassroots activists are in panic. His campaign staffers are in panic. When you're built on being inevitable, placing forth is kind of a problem.

[Ted Cruz]

Cause that's the whole pitch for the Biden campaign, is he's the most electable guy. If he doesn't win elections, then that whole argument goes away.

[Michael Knowles]

And remember we talked about in a previous podcast how when the House managers threw Joe Biden under the bus, one Republican senator speculated it was because the Democratic superdelegates had soured on Biden.

[Ted Cruz]

Right.

[Michael Knowles]

And we saw some of that, some of the fruit of that playing out in Iowa. What that means, they're not gonna be a lot of Republicans in the Senate agitating for investigating further because Biden, Biden is politically speaking, a dead man walking right now.

[Ted Cruz]

Right, right.

[Michael Knowles]

That being said, look, rule of law matters. Biden was the vice President of the United States. The evidence we've walked through on Burisma and corruption. When I'm back at home in Texas and doing town halls, and I've done town halls in Texas and all across the country, people are understandably frustrated. A question you get all the time, how come nobody's held accountable? How come people break the law, people violate the criminal, there are no consequences. They get off scot free. What happened to the millions of dollars Hunter Biden made, by the way? No one has ever answered the question that was asked during the trial. What exactly did Hunter Biden do for the million bucks a year? Like the managers are like, we don't want to answer that. So my view is absolutely, yes, there should be an investigation. Now, who should investigate? To be honest, there's a game of musical chairs in the Senate because no.

[Ted Cruz]

One wants to do it.

[Michael Knowles]

Where no committee chairman wants to do it. It's gotta be a committee chairman. I don't care if it's judiciary, foreign relations or intel. I'm on two of those three. And I am urging the chairman to call them and to investigate. But right now, you're not seeing any chairman rushing into that breach.

[Ted Cruz]

Right.

[Michael Knowles]

And they control the gavel they control the ability to investigate. But let me say secondly, where's doj?

[Ted Cruz]

Right. The Justice Department. Could be.

[Michael Knowles]

We do have a United States Department of Justice that has these people called Assistant US Attorneys and they have grand juries and they're FBI agents. When they're not fraudulently launching a case against the president and doctoring evidence to the FISA court. Get wiretapped. You got evidence here of a million bucks a year to the son of the vice president. With the vice president bragging about getting the prosecutor fired, by the way. I don't know. So in my Senate speech yesterday, every senator got 10 minutes to explain.

[Ted Cruz]

Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

And I quoted from what podcast listeners here know that I've affectionately referred to as the son of a bitch clip and Joe Biden on video saying, son of a bitch, he got fired. What I've actually asked my team to research that may be the first time in history son of a bitch has been set on the Senate.

[Ted Cruz]

So you did not set the milk precedent that you participated in, but you may have set the son of a son.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, that's really. And I'll confess what I asked my team that. They're like, oh, come on, someone had to have said it. I said, look, the Senate's pretty old school. I'm not even sure we've had a malarkey on the Senate.

[Ted Cruz]

No, there's been a lot of malarkey, but maybe not a mention of malarkey.

[Michael Knowles]

But by the way, Michael, you did mention I missed this tweet, but you told me that Don Jr. Don Jr. Tweeted about the Iowa caucuses. I'm sorry, we were told there'd be no malarkey. That's funny. I didn't see Dog's tweet, but that's really funny.

[Ted Cruz]

Spot on. Before we go, obviously wrapping up impeachment, we need to get to some of the mailbag questions. Our listeners have been incredible. Now, just what, we've been doing this for two weeks. Over 2 million audio downloads, a ton of listens on YouTube. First question from Nicholas. Is the Verdict podcast going to continue or was this a short lived gem of a listen?

[Michael Knowles]

We ain't going anywhere, all right?

[Ted Cruz]

I still have a job. This is great.

[Michael Knowles]

We will keep on going and we're going to keep doing the same thing, which is trying to get to the bottom of issues, trying to engage in substance. This podcast was built on a proposition that you can attest a lot of people laughed at us for saying yes, which is that people really care about substance. They want to Understand things. Now, look, people have jobs, they have kids, they have lives. They don't necessarily have time to spend days and days and days studying every issue. You got to deal with other stuff. But they do want to understand, all right, what's really going on, what are the facts? And I got to admit, when it comes to cable tv, I don't turn on the cable news stations. I get very little from people screaming.

[Ted Cruz]

At each other, three minute sound bites, yelling over each other, and just the.

[Michael Knowles]

Talking points, blah, blah, blah. It's like a Charlie Brown. And then pre.

[Ted Cruz]

Teach what they're doing.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, it just. It doesn't. So what we're gonna try to do, we're gonna try to address, number one, timely, pressing issues right now. Yeah. But number two, also issues that matter, whether raised by the presidential campaign, raised by what's going on in the Senate, raised in the Supreme Court, or just issues that matter. Socialism versus free enterprise. What's that all about? Those are sort of great bumper stickers you can get all, you know, jazzed about. But what does it mean? And I'm hoping that we do it with a combination of facts and insight and perhaps some perspectives that you don't necessarily get elsewhere, but also having fun. I mean, we're gonna, you know, cut up and laugh and enjoy ourselves. And hopefully that means our listeners will stay with us.

[Ted Cruz]

Right, before we go, someone has a new job recommendation for you. You've already got two. Maybe you could have a third. From Lisa, thoughts on a Supreme Court seat? I think Ted would be great.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, look, I appreciate Lisa saying that, and that's a question that I get sometimes. I will tell you that. The short answer is that I'm not interested in doing that.

[Ted Cruz]

Really? Why not? You've worked in the Supreme Court, you clerked, you have argued cases before the Supreme Court.

[Michael Knowles]

I respect, I admire the Supreme Court. I think it's massively important. The big reason. And when I've said this to people, they sometimes don't believe me. But I think a principled federal judge stays out of policy fights, stays out of political fights. If I were a judge, that's what I'd do. If I found myself on the Supreme Court, I would follow the law and I would follow the Constitution, even if.

[Ted Cruz]

It doesn't go along with your particular preference on any given issue.

[Michael Knowles]

And I don't wanna stay out of policy fights. I don't wanna stay out of political fights. I wanna be right in the middle of them. And the right place in our system for that is the Senate. I mean, The Senate was established for that. And so listen, I would like to be part of nominating and confirming 2, 3, 4, 5 strong principled constitutionalists to the Supreme Court and to the lower courts as well. I think it matters massively, but I don't want to pull out of the fray.

[Ted Cruz]

It's too much fun.

[Michael Knowles]

And frankly, what matters to me, when I look at the Senate and, you know, no disrespect to my colleagues, but I don't see a whole lot of people leading the fight.

[Ted Cruz]

Right.

[Michael Knowles]

And if we're going to win people's hearts and minds, we got to be prepared to engage and fight. And that's what I want to do. And, you know, I'll tell you one part of it also. So this is not an entirely theoretical question. For both of the last two Supreme Court vacancies for Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh, the president and I had very serious conversations about the seat extended, especially for the first one, the Gorsuch seat. That was Scalia seat. We had, the president and I and his team and I talked for probably two hours about it.

[Ted Cruz]

Wow.

[Michael Knowles]

And I don't want to overstate it. He didn't offer me the job, but it was a really serious problem.

[Ted Cruz]

He didn't talk to me about it. You know, so this is a little bit better.

[Michael Knowles]

That may be the next one, maybe the next one. You know, I can see you as a Ruth Bader Ginsburg. I mean, it'd be a good look for you. And I'll tell you, I wrestled with it. I thought about it. I actually spent several weeks with Heidi. I mean, we were praying about it. I mean, that's. I revere Antonin Scalia. And to have the possibility of filling his spot, like, holy cow. It's one thing to say it theoretically, but when it was being discussed for real, you really have a. All right, let's think about this. It's a humbling experience, and I came very much to peace. So I told the president, in both instances, I'm not interested. I don't want the position. No, thank you. He didn't offer it to me, but I made very clear I didn't want it. When I was thinking about it during the first discussions, one of the things that happened, my pastor came over to the house. It was. I forget it was a Saturday or Sunday afternoon, and spent a couple of hours talking through with me. And I gotta say, among my close friends, almost everybody was saying, you're an idiot. What is wrong?

[Ted Cruz]

I wasn't gonna say it, but I.

[Michael Knowles]

Got a lot of that. It was interesting, my pastor's take on it. He said he understood because I was from the very beginning, very hesitant. Pretty sure I didn't want to do it, but I was agonizing because it was becoming a more real possibility. And my pastor used an analogy. He said if someone came to me and offered me the opportunity to be the leading theologian in the world, to go to some divinity school and drive theological thought across the planet, but I'd have to give up being a pastor. And I couldn't meet with the members of the church. I couldn't visit them when they're sick. I couldn't. He said, you know what? I'd turn that down. And it matters a lot. I want good theologians to think. But my calling, my passion, is to be a pastor. And I have to admit that that analogy resonated with me. And I want to be fighting for conservative principles in the Senate, winning these fights. And also one of the things Ted Kennedy did. Ted Kennedy was a lion of the Senate and he raised up. He trained generations of left wingers who went and populated all of government, did enormous damage to the country.

[Ted Cruz]

Right.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm working very hard to train young conservatives, libertarians, to go and fight for the Constitution. That's a lot of fun and I'd.

[Ted Cruz]

Rather do that not just in the Senate, but here. I'm glad you're staying in the fight in both places. And we've got a lot more to get to because we've got the final verdict on impeachment. But I'm glad to say we don't have the final verdict podcast and we will be back with a lot more to look not just backward on this farce of an impeachment trial, but to look forward at what is at stake coming up. Thank you so much to everybody who has made this podcast such a big success. Please head on over if you don't mind, and subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts and leave a five star review. And we'll be back with a whole lot more. I'm Michael Knowles. This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.

[Michael Knowles]

This episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz is being brought to you by Jobs, Freedom and Security Package, a political action committee dedicated to supporting conservative causes, organizations and candidates across the country. In 2022, Jobs, Freedom and Security PAC plans to donate to conservative candidates running for Congress and help the Republican Party across the nation.