← The 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson
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- [00:01]
Ted Cruz
This investigation of the president was corrupt. The FBI and the Department of Justice were politicized and weaponized. And in my opinion, there are only two possibilities, that you were deliberately corrupt or woefully incompetent. And I don't believe you were incompetent. This has done severe damage to the professionals and the honorable men and women at the FBI, because law enforcement should not be used as a political weapon. And that is the legacy you have left.
- [00:40]
Michael Knowles
This might be my favorite aspect of the show. I mean, this is what we've been seeing since impeachment all the way back, what was it, eight, nine months ago, now, is we get the first look and the first talk with Senator Cruz after all of these extraordinarily consequential events. Senator, you have just come from a hearing with former FBI Director James Comey. James Comey is not just a controversial figure, but he has, in your words, either incompetent or worse. Let's, if you wouldn't mind, take us through the hearing.
- [01:16]
Ted Cruz
Well, yeah, so he was testifying about his leadership at the FBI and his role in the investigation of President Trump, of his campaign, Michael Flynn of Carter Page. And I gotta say, Comey at this point just blames everything on, oh, mistakes were made. The passive voice was used. Nobody is an actor. It just happened to happen. Oh, oops. Some things were sloppy. And I gotta say, I thought too many Republican senators were willing to credit him with. You just didn't know what was going on. Baloney. Comey knew exactly what was going on. Comey, I believe, bears very direct responsibility for politicizing the FBI, for politicizing DOJ and Obama and Biden used Comey and used Brennan to turn doj, CIA, FBI, and the political weapons to go after Trump. And I think Comey was complicit. The hearing today, which I just came from, I spent most of the morning over at the hearing. He's very good at dodging and weaving. He's slippery. He doesn't like to answer a direct question. So, you know, he talked about, well, anytime the FBI is thought of as less than competent or honest, that's a problem. And I pointed out that according to the inspector general report, they made 17 material misstatements to the federal court. And he's like, oh, well, yeah, that's competent and honest. And he said, well, it was honest at least. And I said, well, no. One of those was when an FBI lawyer who worked for you fraudulently altered a document from the CIA. He emailed the CIA and said, hey, is Carter Page a source for you. Cuz he's talking to the Russians. But if he's talking to the Russians on behalf of the CIA, that's very different than if he's running around with Russian agents. CIA said, oh, yeah, he's a source for us. And the FBI lawyer fraudulently altered that email and added the words is not a source. Literally turned it to the opposite of what it said. I mean, reversed its meaning 180 degrees. And they used that as the basis for a submission to the federal court. Comey, being slippery as he is, said, no, no, no, no, that's not what the inspector General concluded. And fortunately, I had the IG report right in front of me, so I pulled it over and read the damn quote from the report. And he just, he had nothing to say on that.
- [03:56]
Michael Knowles
I like this dichotomy that you drew between incompetence and corruption. I think even I. And I think for so many people who are listening, who don't have the time to go through all of the aspects of what this means for spying on the Trump campaign and the Russian collusion narrative and on and on and.
- [04:16]
Ted Cruz
On, and it's complicated. It's hard to figure out.
- [04:18]
Michael Knowles
It is hard to figure out. And we know that bureaucracies are incompetent a lot of the time. So I think even a lot of us who are pretty conservative will say, okay, maybe we'll give them the benefit of the doubt. But what you're pointing to here is one, the language that Comey uses, this passive voice, which he always uses, is designed to push away any sort of guilt. And we can read in the report that there was flagrant intentional dishonesty.
- [04:44]
Ted Cruz
Yeah. A couple of additional observations. Comey, at the hearing today and at the press all the time, makes all these aspersions. Like he said at the hearing, I think the Russians have something on Trump. And mind you, he has no basis. He was leading the FBI. It used to be that you actually have something based on evidence rather than just making wild accusations. But listen, I know James Comey not well, but I've dealt with him for a number of years. I think Comey was deeply, deeply political. Small P political. Political in the maneuvering. And I think Comey had delusions of grandeur. He worked in the J. Edgar Hoover Building, which is the headquarters of the FBI, and I think he thought he was J. Edgar Hoover. I mean, Hoover famously abused the power of head of the FBI and basically blackmailed people. It had all sorts of incriminating information on lots of players and I think Comey. Look, Comey played a role in 2016 in torpedoing Hillary at the end and then in exonerating Hillary and going back and forth. And I think he was playing politics, and then I think he felt guilty about the role he played in Hillary. And I think he hated Trump, and he was perfectly happy to have the FBI be a political weapon. And there needs to be accountability. People need to go to jail for breaking the law, and to date, they haven't, and I hope they do.
- [06:15]
Michael Knowles
Will they be held to account? I mean, I know we're having hearings at the Senate. We're having the investigation from the DoJ into all the mess that happened. Is there going to be some consequence to all of this, or are the nefarious players just going to run out the clock?
- [06:31]
Ted Cruz
Look, I pray they will. I don't know. I think Bill Barr is doing a terrific job. I think if anyone can ensure some accountability at Spahr. That being said, it's been four years, and there hasn't been much of any. And, you know, one of the things I asked Comey about is he testified under oath and under penalty of perjury that he had never leaked to the press and that he'd never authorized anyone to leak to the press concerning this. And Andrew McCabe, who was his deputy, has publicly stated that he leaked to the press and that Comey authorized him to do so, and he knew about it. And so I asked Comey about it. I read the two statements. I said, look, these are directly contradictory. They can't both be true. So who's telling the truth? And Comey, again, under oath, reiterated that he'd never leaked and never authorized anyone to leak. McCabe's coming before the Judiciary Committee next week, and you better believe I'm gonna ask him the same thing. One or the other is lying, and doing it in front of the Judiciary Committee is perjury. That is punishable by prison term.
- [07:32]
Michael Knowles
Well, we'll obviously have to cover that next week. You know, I want to get to the debates a little bit. And actually, this ties directly in one line that President Trump came back to last night, is he said there was an attempted coup. The previous administration spied on my campaign. They drove up this whole ridiculous narrative. They tried to impeach me over absolutely nothing. And so it's not a minor issue. It's not enough to just say, oh, well, that was a few years years ago. We'll move on. This is an issue that gets to the heart of the integrity of our political system. And there was A little bit of a parallel, I felt, at the debate, which is that it's supposed to be the two people who disagree. Right. Donald Trump and Joe Biden and a neutral moderator. There are supposed to be neutral, nonpartisan elements to our government. And the moderator, just like a lot of elements of the government, turned out to be a partisan Democrat weighing in on the side of Joe Biden.
- [08:27]
Ted Cruz
Yeah, I think Chris Wallace did an abysmal job. I think he's consistently been a really bad presidential debate moderator because he's biased and he's condescending and he thinks it's all about him. And so you saw before the debate, he said he wanted to be invisible, but that disappeared when the debate started where he. There was a lot of stomping his foot. And I'm in charge here. Listen to me. Reminded me of South Park. Respect my authority. That was Chris Wallace.
- [09:00]
Michael Knowles
The Eric Cartman debate. Yeah.
- [09:02]
Ted Cruz
Yes. But he was also. Look, a lot of people get confused because Wallace is on Fox News and so they assume he must be a Republican or right of center. He's a liberal Democrat and he's been in the entire time I've been in the Senate. I've seen Wallace do it over and over again. That he attacks conservatives, that he carries water for the left. You saw with the questions. One of his questions to Trump was the New York Times hit piece on the taxes, which conveniently, two days before the debate, entirely designed to be the attack on the debate. Now, mind you, the New York Times doesn't actually release the tax documents, so it's purely the Times characterization of them. But Wallace does none of that to Biden. Apparently, there are no issues with Biden. Did you know that there are no criticisms of Joe Biden?
- [09:56]
Michael Knowles
Lucky guy, huh?
- [09:58]
Ted Cruz
You know, at times, Wallace's questions were almost like, you know, Mr. Vice President, are you more handsome or brilliant? Like it was. And his little. His laughter, his snide comments. There is zero doubt for whom Chris Wallace is voting, that he is voting for Joe Biden, and that's not a good thing for a moderator. Now, you know, we were talking about Senate Judiciary Committee a minute ago and how the witnesses testify under penalty of perjury. I think it's a good thing that neither of the candidates last night were testifying under penalty at perjury.
- [10:34]
Michael Knowles
There's some exaggerations perhaps in there, or worse.
- [10:38]
Ted Cruz
It was wild and woolly. I don't think there's ever been a debate like this in the history of presidential debates. At times it was ugly. I drew an Analogy to the Detroit Pistons basketball team in the 1990s in that there were a lot of hard fouls and missed shots. And, you know, Trump at times was Bill Laimbeer coming with this massive arm and slamming Joe across the head. Now Joe was rabbit punching back. And I mean, it was. At times it almost became Jerry Springer. And I expected someone to grab a chair and like throw it at the other.
- [11:18]
Michael Knowles
It was disappointing, I felt, I have to say. It was obviously a two on one debate, Wallace and Biden against Trump to begin with. But I think a lot of people were dispirited because you felt on the substance Trump had much more than Joe Biden. And even on the attacks, Joe Biden's attacks were just to call Trump a clown and a racist and tell him to shut up, man, and come on, man. But it was so childish. And I understand maybe the President's strategy was to off foot Biden a little bit, but I felt there were too many interruptions. I felt that was counterproductive. It was just dispiriting. I felt for both camps. What do you think the upshot of it is gonna be for both campaigns? And how do you think that they can do better next time?
- [12:04]
Ted Cruz
Yeah, look, I don't think the debate moved many votes last night. I think the people that came in supporting Trump left supporting Trump. The people that came in supporting Biden left supporting Biden. I don't think there were a whole lot of undecided voters whose views were changed. Both candidates had good moments in the debate. Trump, I think his best moment was when he called out Biden and he explained that Biden is supporting shutting down the economy, shutting down small businesses, shutting down restaurants, destroying jobs, shutting down schools. And Trump contrasted that, says he wants people to open, go back to work, go back to school. That was really important. And Biden didn't have a good response to that. Biden was trying to run away from his positions. I thought that was a very positive exchange. I also thought Trump was particularly good, went on law enforcement. Joe made reference to being supported by law enforcement. And Trump said, really? Name one. Name one law enforcement organization in all of America supporting you. And Joe just kind of blinked wide eyed and had no idea. And then of course, Chris Wallace jumped in and bailed Joe out. Wallace should have shut up and stayed out of it right then. And Trump should have been quiet.
- [13:21]
Michael Knowles
Yeah.
- [13:22]
Ted Cruz
And pressed it. One very powerful thing in a negotiation, in an interview is silence. Silence. People hate silence. People want to fill silence with space. And the question Trump asked, name one law enforcement agency in the entire country that has supported you. I think if Trump had just simply looked at him and waited and there had been 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 seconds of silence as Biden had no answer, it would have been really powerful. That being said, the point was made.
- [13:58]
Michael Knowles
Nonetheless, the point was made. And it was too bad that Chris Wallace jumped in. I mean, obviously I guess that was what he was there for, was to go in and help the Democrat. But there is this basic rule in politics, I don't need to tell you this, which is that when your opponent is destroying himself, don't get in the way. There's no reason to interrupt that.
- [14:18]
Ted Cruz
Well, and by the way, another quick example. Joe Biden, he tried a couple of times to run away from some positions of the left. He pretended he didn't support packing the cord. Or actually technically he said he wouldn't answer that question, which means yes, he supports packing the cord. He did help himself, I think when he came out strongly and said that he opposed defunding the police. Although I think both Wallace and Trump should have pressed back on him hard. And I thought it was interesting that he ran away from the Green New Deal and said I don't support the Green New Deal. If Wallace were actually being a fair and impartial moderator, the natural follow up question to that is what aspects of the Green New Deal do you not support? Your running mate is a co sponsor of it. I mean, there was no substance. So he was able to say no, no, no, no, I don't support that. But with no details and he wasn't pressed one iota.
- [15:16]
Michael Knowles
And the first question of the debate actually is what we were talking about on the last episode. The first topic dominated the beginning was the Supreme Court and it was on this issue of court packing and it was on other aspects of the Supreme Court. Coincidentally you happen to have a book out on this subject One Vote Away. But I do think it kind of vindicates what we were saying on the previous episode, which is that however it is today, however it came to be, the Supreme Court is the dominant issue in the presidential elections.
- [15:50]
Ted Cruz
No, I think that's right. It was the number one question in the debate. The book One Vote Away, it came out yesterday. It's actually done really well. We did a podcast yesterday and we asked, folks, thank you for going online to Amazon or wherever and buying it. We've been in the top 10 national best sellers on Amazon, actually right now on Amazon's best seller list for political conservatism and liberalism, which is Sort of an odd list. If you're, I guess, a righty or lefty, the book is right now number one. And I gotta say, I think Verdict listeners, you guys are a huge part of why that is. Thank you. That really, it makes a difference. And I think you'll find the book really interesting and informative and helpful. Hopefully for the same reason that you find Verdict helpful.
- [16:43]
Michael Knowles
Right. Well, it's actually. I think it would be a good contrast to the debate, which is that I am professionally obligated to watch every minute of that debate. And if I were not professionally obligated to do it, I would not have. I didn't feel it was productive. It was difficult often to watch and listen to. But it's different when you're talking about the book. You actually do leave. I'm not just shilling for your book. I really am enjoying it. Because for this reason, you leave with actual information. So you can say, okay, this is ammo I can use, frankly, when I'm having these debates with my friends and I'm at the water cooler or I'm wherever at a dinner party.
- [17:22]
Ted Cruz
Well, and you know, the debate last night, the first question, actually, Wallace asked a good first question. It was a neutral moderator question where he said, Mr. President, your position on the Supreme Court vacancy is as follows. Vice President Biden, your position is as follows. And he fairly neutrally characterized both sides, and he said, tell us why you're right. And then. So he just teed up the issue and then let them engage. That was actually a pretty good beginning. It was not as biased as some of his later questions. I gotta say, the president's response, he essentially said, well, I'm president and I got elected, so I get to nominate and we won. And I wish the president had focused on why it matters, why the Supreme Court matters, what's at stake. I wish the president had focused on the issues really at the core of the book, one vote away, that he talked about free speech or religious liberty of the Second Amendment. You know, when I was a college debater, we used to think all the time when you were in an opposition of focusing on harms. In fact, I would say, harms, harms, harms. How does it impact you? And a little bit of the back and forth between Trump and Biden, it was about them. And I really think it would have been more effective for it to be about you at home, if you're the soccer mom at home watching this debate. Okay, yes, people elected the president. And by the way, Biden had a huge created A huge opening because he came and said, well, the American people deserve to have a say. They get to vote on a president, they get to vote on the Senate, and they deserve to have a say. That was his reason why we shouldn't vote on them. And Trump had a natural response of, you know what? Joe is absolutely right. The American people deserve to have a say. And they did. They elected me in 2016. I told them what kind of justice I was going to appoint. They elected a Republican Senate. They told them what kind of justice we were going to confirm. And, Joe, there's a reason the American people, they want free speech. They don't want the government prohibiting you criticizing politicians. They want religious liberty. They want to be able to worship. They want the Second Amendment. And, Joe, your justices would take away Second Amendment rights from Americans. It was a great opportunity that Joe kind of stuck his chin out there and asked to be clobbered. Not in a personal attack, but really a substantive. Your vision for America is not what the American people want, and it's not how they voted in 2014 in the Senate, in 2016 in the Senate and the presidency, or in 2018 in the Senate.
- [20:14]
Michael Knowles
That's a great insight. I mean, I saw that missed opportunity there. I felt you could have hit it. But I like the framing that you've just described, which is, it's not about me, it's about you. And don't forget, that was a huge help to President Trump in the general election in 2016, when Hillary's slogan was I'm with her. And he said, forget that I'm with you. Completely flips it, right? He says, I'm with you. And in the spirit of that, as a matter of fact, I do want to get to some mailbag questions from you. Not you, Senator, but you out there. And this does relate to the debate. This question is from Brandon. What changes could be made to make the debates more effective, or I'll add, listenable.
- [20:58]
Ted Cruz
Look, at some level, it's impossible if the two are gonna yell at each other. President Trump, in particular want, like, is looking for a brawl. I actually think he would be better off sort of ratcheting down a little bit and engaging in a more of a conversation and discussion. But I think it would be benefited from having moderators. I think rather than pretending people are unbiased, we ought to just admit. So I'd have a Republican moderator and a Democratic moderator. I'd have a. You know, how about have Sean Hannity and Rachel Maddow moderate a debate together and everyone will Know which hat they're wearing or, you know, or Mark Levin or Rush Limbaugh or Michael Knowles or Ben Shapiro. I mean, I mean, can you imagine Ben monitoring a debate? And fine, get some whatever smart lefty, lefty Ben Shapiro and Chris Hayes. That would actually be an interesting debate. Now everyone gets that Shapiro would ask questions. He's coming from a perspective, and Hayes is coming from a perspective, and they would ask questions to advance their perspectives. I think that'd actually be a more honest debate and interesting debate because it would expose the weaknesses of both sides and help people make an intelligent decision.
- [22:19]
Michael Knowles
Absolutely. I totally agree. This idea of when can we get back to a perfectly balanced, neutral, objective press that probably never existed, that I think is missing the point. Let's just be honest about it, and that way you get to some fairness. Now, this question is going to come from the opposite end of watching or listening to last night's debate from Margo. What does Senator Cruz do for fun to take a break from politics?
- [22:46]
Ted Cruz
Play basketball. I love hoops. The past I played two hours of hoops yesterday. Played two hours of hoops two days ago. I can barely walk because I turned 50 in a couple of months. So four to five hours of hoops is a bit too much. I like playing tennis. I love movies. I used to go to the movies at least once a week. I mean, I love being in the big movie theater, play with my kids. I mean, the girls are 9 and 12, so free time at home is family time. We play games. I'm a love to play games, play poker, play backgammon with Catherine. She likes backgammon. We play monopoly, play dominoes. Domino's is a Cuban favorite. So every Thanksgiving and Christmas, the family will get around. Cubans, by the way, play double nine, double sixes. And my college and law school roommate, guy named David Panton, who's Jamaican, in Jamaica, they play a lot of dominoes as well. They play double sixes. And David came to visit the house a couple of months ago when Heidi was out of town. And so we just had kind of a boys weekend hanging out. And a couple other guys came over and we played dominoes at the dining room table. And that particular time, David's a very good dominoes player. I happened to win that particular night. And so I called up my dad. My dad is a very good dominoes player, too. And I called up and I said, dad. And my father knows David really well. And I said, dad, you really need to comfort David right now. And actually, I want to ask you to Pray for him, because, you know, he just flew all the way to Houston and he just got humiliated at Domino's, and he's hurting. And so dad and I have him on FaceTime. And I said, you know, dad, I'm asking you to. To commiserate. And my father had just finished playing dominoes with my cousin, and my dad happened to have won, too. And so my father was having. He said, you know what? We ought to get David and Marino together, and they can commiserate on what it's like to need to study dominoes more. So it was not. We weren't showing a whole lot of compassion at that moment.
- [25:10]
Michael Knowles
Senator, I've gotta tell you, while I'm picturing you playing dominoes at the table, all I'm picturing is you guys lining them all up, and then you push one down, and they all. I don't know how to play dominoes. That's all I know how to do with them. But it creates a much funnier image. I noticed you left one thing off the list, which is my favorite hobby that we've ever done together, the cigars. Where are the cigars? It doesn't make the top 10.
- [25:34]
Ted Cruz
So when I play poker, I love to smoke cigars.
- [25:37]
Michael Knowles
Okay.
- [25:39]
Ted Cruz
All right. A funny Heidi story. When Heidi and I were engaged, I used to host a regular poker night, and my buddies would come over at the dining room table, and we'd play poker, and we'd smoke cigars sitting at the dining room table. And they were like, man, your girlfriend or your fiance is amazing. Like, I can't believe she let you smoke inside. And I'm just like, yeah, that's. You know what? That's just how cool it is. She's amazing. And we got married May 27, 2001. We're coming up on our 20th anniversary. We literally get back from the honeymoon. I'm getting ready to host a poker game. She says, get the damn cigars outside. You're never to smoke it inside again. And I never have. It's been 20 years since I've been able to smoke a cigar inside. So sometimes the engagement rules are different from the marriage rules.
- [26:33]
Michael Knowles
I can see that it sort of. It changes like that. I suppose marriage is about sacrifice. Good, though, to be able to take a moment to relax, even if you have to do it outside now to have a little bit of fun, because lot to celebrate. Congratulations on the book going so far up the list. And be sure for everyone to go out there and get a copy of One vote away. I promise it will be a substantive distraction from all the madness that you're going to be getting in the media for the next couple months of the presidential cycle. We're gonna be back forgetting about our relaxation. We're gonna be back talking about all of that. Obviously, a lot coming up. But in the meantime, I'm Michael Knowles. This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.
- [27:20]
Ted Cruz
This episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz is being brought to you by Jobs, Freedom and Security pac, a political action committee dedicated to supporting conservative causes, organizations, and candidates across the country. In 2022, jobs, freedom and Security PAC plans to donate to conservative candidates running for Congress and help the Republican Party across the.