Ted Cruz (3:05)

I mean, wow, right? Like, at least they're figuring it out. I don't want to say that all the media is figuring out, but I. It is pretty funny they figured out. The only problem is they were just a couple years too late.

Ben Ferguson (3:15)

Yeah. Look, it's striking to hear Katie Couric admitting that. Now, as you know, this was an idea that I suggested three years ago. In October of 2021, I introduced a bill called the Surge Act. And the Surge act was designed to create 13 new ports of entry to send illegal immigrants. And here's what my press release said at the time. If Washington Democrats had to endure even a fraction of the suffering South Texas families, farmers, ranchers and small businesses have had to face, our nation's immigration laws would be in force. The wall would be built and remain in Mexico, policy would be implemented. And so I introduced legislation to change the points of entry and add 13 new places. Block Island, Rhode Island, Greenwich, Connecticut, Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts, Cambridge, Massachusetts, Governors Island, New York, Rehoboth Beach, Delaware, Nantucket, Massachusetts, Newport, Rhode Island, Scarsdale, New York, Palo Alto, California, Yountville, California, St. Helena, California, and North Hero, Vermont, which is where Bernie Sanders vacations. And the idea was all the places where rich liberals sit and sip Chardonnay and look down on people concerned about the open borders. And it was really striking. At the time I introduced this legislation, the leftist media went crazy. And in fact, the county executive at Martha's Vineyard attacked me, attacked me by name. And he said, cruz doesn't understand immigration. And he said, we in Martha's Vineyard would welcome illegal immigrants. Well, several Months later, Ron DeSantis and Greg Abbott took me up on what I had suggested, and they did exactly that. They sent 50 illegal immigrants to Martha's Vineyard. And of course, that same county executive, within 24 hours, declared an emergency and ended up deporting the 50 who had been sent. And I'll tell you, we actually covered this on Verdict several years ago. So I want you to play an old segment from Verdict. This is actually pretty pre. The great Ben Ferguson. This is back when Michael Knowles and I were doing it.

Ted Cruz (5:32)

Our good friend. Yeah. Yes, the voice is about to change a little bit. Right.

Ben Ferguson (5:37)

But this is us talking about it three years ago, and it had a bit of foreshadowing. So give a listen. They've just sent airplanes full of illegal aliens to Martha's Vineyard and I cheered when I saw the headline. And then I had to think, you know, there's a certain podcast hosted by a certain senator from Texas that has been calling exactly for that for many weeks now. And I just can't help but wonder if that may have had some effect on this policy going into effect. I was thrilled when the governor of Texas, Greg Abbott, took me up on the idea and began sending illegal immigrants, first to D.C. then to New York, then to Chicago. It's had a fantastic event as these, these Democratic mayors have lost their minds and declared national emergencies. The mayor of D.C. declared a national emergency or a city emergency because 6,000 illegal immigrants were sent to D.C. of course, we've had. Since Joe Biden became president, we have had 4.2 million illegal immigrants cross illegally with Biden as president. It is horrific. That's a crazy number. 4.2 million. That is a crazy number. It is larger than many of the states of our union. I mean, 4.2 million since Joe Biden put his hand on the Bible and took the oath of office. That's what's coming. It continues to get worse. And what is amazing about when, when red state governors, first Texas, now Florida are shipping to blue strongholds is the Democrats who talk a good game immediately flip tail. So I want to give you a quote from Martha's Vineyard. When I introduced the legislation, you had Democrats, Democrats in the House of Representatives slam me. But I want to read from the County Commissioner of Martha's Vineyard, Keith Chattanoover, and here's the quote he said about my legislation. I would love to see Martha's Vineyard become a haven for new immigrants in the country. But Senator Cruz has no idea what he's talking about regarding a border crisis. He went on to say, immigrants make our country stronger, as evidenced by immigration from Brazil and other countries to the Vineyard. And he is trying to whip up racial anxieties for political gain, which is essentially the entire GOP platform. Anyhow. Now, that's before they arrived. I want to see if after 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 100 planeloads or busloads if the county commissioner has the same view.

Ted Cruz (8:22)

Three years ago you said that, Senator, and now we're seeing that Democrats are actually saying, man, this was really effective. Like, this was really, really effective. You did this. It stopped the surge in October 2021.

Ben Ferguson (8:37)

And by the way, three years ago, notice that number 4.2 million illegal immigrants were now over 12 million. What has happened at our southern border is an experiment in radicalism that has never been tried in the United States of America. Our country is struggling. The suffering that has occurred and I will say the actual sending of plane loads and busloads of illegal immigrants to blue strongholds. It showed the complete, complete and utter hypocrisy as every Democrat mayor, every Democrat governor, every Democrat county executive completely demonstrated everything they'd been saying was a lie. And it broke through the media freeze out in a way nothing else did. I think Katie Couric's right. That single action of demonstrating Democrat hypocrisy on this issue could well have decided the presidential election last month.

Ted Cruz (9:35)

Now, if you want to hear the rest of this conversation, you can go back and listen to the full podcast from earlier this week. Now on to story number two, speaking of conspiracy theories at six months ago they said we're not real or five months or four months or three months or even two months ago. And then it becomes real. That brings me to the second big topic that we mentioned earlier. And let's go back to Colorado. Let's go back to what the White House and the media said. They said that it was not happening, that there were not gangs that had been taking over apartment complexes and running these criminal gangs out of them in Aurora, Colorado. They, they said this was a lie, that it wasn't true. Then they said, well, it's only happening in a couple of them, not that many, so it's not a big deal. They changed their story again and now we were right all along. Illegal alien invasion in Colorado, number one, is real. And number two, you have 14 detained in Aurora, Colorado in a horrific home invasion that are likely illegal gang members. Police are now saying when individuals were not only taken, but they were tortured.

Ben Ferguson (10:50)

Well, Martha Raddatz at ABC dismissed this, said, oh, it's only a handful of apartment complexes which with the classic contempt of the elite, left looking down on little people that live in apartment buildings who are being terrorized. But this story broke this week. The headline From Fox News, 14 detained in armed Aurora, Colorado home invasion are likely illegal gang members. Home invasion occurred at the edge at Lowry Apartments where viral video showed gang members earlier this year. So the media told us, don't believe your lying eyes. Oddly enough, the same thing they're saying about the drone sightings in the sky. Uh, but, but here, here's what Fox reported. Quote, police at Aurora, Colorado say the overnight armed home invasion at a local apartment complex that resulted in 14 suspects being detained was, quote, without question, a gang incident. Just before 2:30am on Tuesday, police were called to the edge of Lowry Apartments for a reported armed home invasion in which the victims were kidnapped and assaulted, the Aurora police said. Aurora Police Department Chief Todd Chamberlain said during the Tuesday a Tuesday news conference that 13 to 15 people, mostly males with some females, entered an apartment where two people were inside. Police say the suspects took the migrant victims to another apartment at the same location where the victims were threatened and bound. One of the victims, a man, sustained a stab wound but is expected to survive. Police said. Both of the victims are still at the hospital for treatment for their injuries. At some point, authorities said the suspects released the victims, who then called 911 quote, they were pistol whipped, they were beat, they were mistreated, chamberlain said. So does that fall in the category of torture? For me, yeah, it does. That's the chief of police in Aurora, Colorado. And, and, and he, he went on to say, quote, this is without question a gang incident. I don't know which gang they're affiliated with. Yes, Chamberlain said that, quote, there is a high assumption that they may be affiliated with the tda, the Trender Iragua gang. But he stopped short of declaring which gang in particular was involved because he could not be certain at this time. We were told this wasn't true, and yet it is true.

Ted Cruz (13:25)

Well, and let's go back to Martha Radek because this was when she was getting into it with JD Vance on this issue. And I want you to hear what she had to say. And again, this goes back to the lies when people don't trust the media or the government when they lie to us.

Ben Ferguson (13:41)

Stop you. The incidents were limited to a handful of apartment conflicts, apartment complexes. And the mayor said our dedicated police officers have acted on those concerns. A handful of problems only. Martha, do you hear yourself? Only a handful of apartment complexes in America were taken over by Venezuelan gangs and Donald Trump is the problem and not Kamala Harris's open border. Americans are so fed up with what's going on and they have every right to be.

Ted Cruz (14:13)

By the way, if it's your apartment complex, I think it is a big deal. When you have it being taken over.

Ben Ferguson (14:17)

By Martha, the government doesn't stop lives in opulence. She's a multimillionaire. It's not her problem. Her home wasn't taken over by Venezuelan gangs. So why should she possibly be concerned? And listen, that liberal contempt for ordinary Americans is a big part of the reason we saw the overwhelming election results we did in November.

Ted Cruz (14:42)

Finally, Senator, I want to get to this other issue and that is there's a study that has come out. It's really Shocking. And it is one where I guess you call it a poll that young people in this country actually are understanding of the assassin in New York City who killed the health care CEO, saying it's almost justifiable that this is happening to people that work in industries they don't like.

Ben Ferguson (15:10)

Yeah, this is really stunning. So Emerson College put out a poll and they polled people's attitudes towards the health care CEO assassination. Here's what they concluded. Quote, a majority of voters, 68%, think the actions of the killer of the United Health Care CEO Brian Thompson are unacceptable. So I want you to pause and think about that. Only 68% of Americans think it is unacceptable to murder someone in cold blood. 17% find the actions acceptable. Murdering someone in cold blood, mind you, while 16% are unsure. Now if you break it down a little more, here's what Emerson College continues. While 68% of voters overall reject the killer's actions, younger voters and Democrats are more split. 41% of voters aged 18 to 29 find the killer's actions acceptable, while 40% find them unacceptable. So according to Emerson College polls, more young people age 18 to 29 find the cold blooded murder of this CEO acceptable, then find it unacceptable. And it's 41% to 40. If you break down that 41%, 24% say it is somewhat acceptable. And 17% say it is completely acceptable. Yes, murderous CEO. We've been trained like good little Marxists. Shoot them now. By the way, if you break it down on party lines, 22% of Democrats find them acceptable, while 59% find them unacceptable. So over a fifth of Democrats think it's perfectly fine to murder a CEO, to murder a man in cold blood, to shoot him in the back. And the comparison among Republicans. 12% of Republicans find the actions acceptable and 16% of independents find the actions acceptable. I gotta say, look, of all of those polls, the one that is the Most horrifying is 41% of young people find the killer's actions acceptable and only 40% find them unacceptable. So a plurality of young people say, hey, no problem. Murder someone who's a CEO. That is as stunning an indictment of the brainwashing that young people are receiving in school, in K through 12 education, in colleges and universities, and through the media as anything I've ever seen.

Ted Cruz (17:58)

It is the indoctrination and it's also, I think, the radical left taking over education where. And they're normalizing it. It's what you and I talked about on this podcast a couple days ago. The left has normalized the idea of assassinating people you disagree with who are in positions of power and giving you reason to believe that it is justifiable.

Ben Ferguson (18:19)

And remember, Joy Behar on the View said it was terrible that I said it was leftists who are saying this. Well, look, that polling data shows it's Democrats and it's young. It doesn't break it down by liberal or conservative. But I am very confident a significant percentage of those young people that think it's acceptable would also identify as leftists. And we know that young people skew further left. Anyway, this is. Look, let me repeat what ought to be a simple proposition. Murder is always, always, always wrong, whether you like the person or not. And by the way, all the people who think the murder of this CEO is so horrible, they don't know anything about him. They don't know about any healthcare claims. He denied he was CEO of a major healthcare insurance company. Now I get a lot of people don't like insurance companies. I've got issues with insurance companies. But this guy may be a wonderful human being. We don't know. He was a father, he had two teenage kids, he was murdered in cold blood. And yet, according to this poll, 41% of young people think perfectly okay to murder him. That is, we need to see people speaking out and saying this is wrong, period. The end. Not like and when we covered this in Monday's podcast, not like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders and aoc murder is wrong. But it's okay, AR I understand it here. People can only be pushed so far. No, murder is wrong, period. The end. That would actually be a good and sensible and moral and reasonable position and what was understood throughout American history, at least in modern times. But for the cultural Marxists, murder of the enemy, no problem.

Ted Cruz (20:08)

As before. If you want to hear the rest of this conversation on this topic, you can go back and download the podcast from earlier this week to hear the entire thing. I want to get back to the big story number three of the week you may have missed.

Ben Ferguson (20:22)

Here's the third principle I want to say. There are some people arguing for eliminating the debt ceiling permanently, altogether, just getting rid of the debt ceiling, never again having to worry about it. And by the way, one of the plans that's discussed is, well, the Democrats have always wanted to eliminate the debt ceiling. So let's just do that. And that's how we get out of this. I pray that is not the end game here. Eliminating the debt ceiling would be the single worst step we could possibly take. If you care about spending or deficits or debt. Now why is that? Okay, let's do a little history. Historically, the debt ceiling has been the single greatest leverage Republicans have had to force spending restraint. Now this has only happened and it's only worked against the opposing party. So one of the challenges with the debt ceiling is when your own party is in power. Trump wants the debt ceiling raised. Every president wants the debt ceiling raised. Republicans, as a general matter, are not willing to exert massive leverage on their own party's president and for spending restraint. So when Trump was president the first time, the debt ceiling was not leverage against Trump because Republicans didn't want to do that. I understand that. But when Democrats are in the White House, Republicans, the debt ceiling is the single most effective lever point that has been used against Democrats to force spending restraints. And I want to point to a couple of examples. Number one, Graham Rudman Hollings. Graham Rudman Hollings, passed decades ago, remains the single most effective spending restraint that has ever been passed into law. Phil Graham, former senator from Texas, was the lead author. How did that get passed? It got passed because of the debt ceiling. Got passed because Republicans forced it and said, we won't raise the debt ceiling unless you pass meaningful structural reform to rein in spending. And Graham Hollings was in effect for many years and had a very positive effect, reining in the growth of spending. I'll point to a second example, 2010, the Budget Control Act. 2010, Barack Obama was president and Republicans used the debt ceiling to force Barack Obama to agree to something called the Budget Control Act. The Budget Control act again significantly constrained the growth of federal spending. It was only through the debt ceiling. We got that. Now the argument. And by the way, today we Republican senators, we all had lunch. J.D. vance came to express his views to the lunch. There were a number of Republicans saying, well, we should just get rid of the debt ceiling now. And I'll tell you, I expressed my views. If we get rid of the debt ceiling, it would be utterly disastrous. If you care remotely about government spending, eliminate the debt ceiling would be a massive mistake. And I just pointed out, if we get rid of the debt ceiling, there will come another Democrat president. I get the urge to live in the moment of we're in charge. Woohah. But unfortunately, there will come another time when the American people elect a Democrat. And for anyone who has an attention span beyond 12 seconds, you recognize throughout history that politics has been a pendulum and it goes from one party to the other. So we will get another Democrat president. And I told my colleagues Today at lunch I said, all right, you get rid of the debt ceiling, get ready for President Elizabeth Warren, and if you don't like a $36 trillion debt, get ready for a $50 trillion debt. Because the Democrats, Elizabeth Warren wants to eliminate the debt ceiling. AOC wants to eliminate the debt ceiling. Chuck Schumer wants to eliminate the debt ceiling because they want to spend us into oblivion. So I will say one potential way out of this is to cut an absolute deal with the Democrats that gets rid of the debt ceiling forever. We will have given away what history has proven. And by the way, I'll go back, I'll go back to about a decade. I don't have the most recent stats, but about a decade ago it was the case that of the previous 51 times Congress had raised the debt ceiling, 28 of those times that it attached meaningful conditions to the debt ceiling. So it's leverage. Remember, my principle number two is used spending for leverage. This is related. On principle number three, the debt ceiling is about getting leverage for concessions. Now here's the problem I mentioned to you. There are a bunch of Republicans in the House who say they'll never vote for continued resolution. There are also a bunch of Republicans in the House who say they will never, ever, ever vote to raise the debt ceiling. I gotta tell you, I don't think that makes any sense. I've never said it and I consider myself very much a fiscal conservative. But 40% of every dollar the federal government spends is borrowed. Unless you're prepared to slash the federal government budget by 40% tomorrow. And by the way, there is literally no serious person on planet Earth who is prepared to do that and is able to do that. Even if you would with a magic wand do that, there's no way to make that happen. Unless you're prepared to do that, the debt ceiling will have to be raised. My position has always been I'm willing to vote to raise the debt ceiling if we are getting concessions that are reigning in the out of control spending that's bankrupting our country. However, in the House there are a bunch of Republicans who simply say, I will never, ever, ever vote to raise the debt ceiling. No matter what. It doesn't matter what we get. My answer is no. That is a real problem. Let me make one final principle. Mike Johnson, who's the speaker of the House. There are a bunch of voices on tv, a bunch of voices on talk radio, a bunch of voices on Twitter saying, get rid of Mike Johnson, throw him overboard. I'm going to tell you something. That I believe is an absolute fact. Mike Johnson is the single most conservative speaker of the House that will ever be speaker of the House in our lifetime. He is undoubtedly the most conservative speaker of the House we have ever had in our lifetime. It's not even close. It's not even. It's not even arguable. And I'm here to tell you, listen, Mike Johnson may lose his job over this. He has a very perilous. It's a tiny majority in the House. You got a bunch of House members saying, I'm going to vote against him. I will tell you this. If Mike Johnson is toppled as speaker of the House, and he might be. Kevin McCarthy was. Mike Johnson is orders of magnitude more conservative than Kevin McCarthy. It's not even close. If Mike Johnson is toppled as speaker of the House, we will end up with a Speaker of the House who is much, much more liberal than Mike Johnson. I think that is indisputable. I know Mike well. He's a good man. He's a decent man. He's. He's a strong Christian. He is a man of humility. And everyone on Twitter is saying, but he gave the Democrats concessions. I want to go back to the first principle. I said count to two. 18. If Mike Johnson could draft a bill that makes it out of the House with 218 Republicans, he would. I don't believe that is possible. There's certainly nothing to indicate it is possible right now. If you cannot get to 218 with Republicans because a bunch of Republicans say, I will not vote for anything you propose, no matter what, then Mike Johnson is forced to get Democrat votes. To get Democrat votes, he must give Democrats things they want. And so I don't know what will happen. I think there's a reasonable chance somehow out of this we get some very short term cr. A week or two or three, and then in mid January, we're back in the middle of this mess again. That's possible. I'll tell you in the Senate. We're all sitting there. We have no idea what's going to happen. Um, I got to tell you, I feel. I feel for Mike Johnson. I think he is trying with all his might. And I would just encourage you to focus on. Listen, I think we need people to be serious about changing the direction of the battleship of government. And to do so, you actually need a strategy that can get the votes to prevail. If you can't get the votes, it's easy to tweet about it. I mean, that's, that's, that's from the cheap seats, 38 Republicans voted no, 174 is not 218. And and so I don't know what the result is here. I think it is chaotic. We will get through this one way or another. But the fundamental structural dynamics and it's one of the things look, going forward into the next year, I'm really optimistic about the Trump presidency. I'm really optimistic about a Republican Senate and House. But I'll tell you, the Senate's gonna be a lot easier. We've got 53 Republicans coming in next year. By the way, we still have a Democrat Senate today. So I haven't even this whole discussion has ignored the fact that you gotta get Chuck Schumer and the Democrats to agree with whatever you do, which is even harder. But next year we'll have 53 Republicans in the Senate. 53 is a big enough majority that we can lose three votes and still get things done. So I think the Senate will be able to pass pretty good legislation. Not fantastic, not wonderful, but surprisingly good. The House worries me enormously next year because the majority is so excruciatingly small that if you lose a handful of votes, you cannot get to 218. And so I think Mike Johnson is trying to work miracles right now. But the single hardest challenge of the next two years in terms of passing good legislation is going to be getting to 218 in the house. And I don't know what the answer is to that.

Ted Cruz (30:36)

As always, thank you for listening to Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you. Don't forget to download my podcast and you can listen to my podcast every other day. You're not listening listening to Verdict or each day when you listen to Verdict afterwards. I'd love to have you as a listener to again the Ben Ferguson Podcast. And we will see you back here on Monday morning.