← The 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson
The 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson
The Sweet Air of Freedom, LIVE at University of Alabama
01:35:41
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- [00:04]
Ted Cruz
We are here at the University of Alabama. We are here in Tuscaloosa.
- [00:10]
Michael Knowles
So exciting. I gotta say, it is great to be back in America.
- [00:18]
Ted Cruz
It is. It is. We've been in hostile territory on this tour. We are back in good old America. There's only one thing I'm more excited about. I just got a text from a friend of mine. This happened about an hour ago. I'm just gonna read the text out.
- [00:34]
Michael Knowles
Wow.
- [00:35]
Ted Cruz
I'm mid flight on my way from Newark to Salt Lake City and they just announced on the airplane speaker that masks are no longer required. Everyone cheered. There's a shot we might get freedom back. This is Verdict with Ted Cruz.
- [01:02]
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- [01:18]
Ted Cruz
Who knows who else.
- [01:19]
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- [02:15]
Liz Wheeler
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- [03:31]
Ted Cruz
Senator, we so rarely get any good news as conservatives these days. It's been a pretty tough news cycle. This just broke a few hours ago. A federal judge, a Trump appointed federal judge, young judge who looks like she's going to have a great career. She just appears to have ended the CDC mask mandate for public transportation.
- [03:57]
Michael Knowles
It is spectacular. You know, I gotta say, I flew this afternoon from Texas to Alabama. I'm pissed she didn't issue a ruling this morning. Few hours I had to wear the bloody mask. Flying here. What I love about that text, so Michael showed me that text right before we walked on is your buddy is a priest. So you've literally got a priest on a plane texting you. Holy crap. We get to take our masks off.
- [04:26]
Ted Cruz
He actually followed it up. He said the poor guy next to me is still asleep. Should I just take it off his face? I don't. That way he can breathe just fine.
- [04:35]
Michael Knowles
I'm glad you told him no on that one.
- [04:36]
Ted Cruz
Yeah, it's probably not, but this is actually. On the one hand, this is such great news. I'm so excited. I've got a flight coming up on Thursday. I can't wait to exercise my freedom. On the other hand, is this what our country has come to? That we need to celebrate being able to breathe without a muzzle on?
- [04:57]
Michael Knowles
I mean, think how asinine this is. 2 years ago if someone would have suggested to everyone here that the government's gonna step in and make a rule that everyone has to wear a mask every damn moment of the day, that you can't get on an airplane, that you can't get on a train, you can't get in the bus. You can't get in an Uber without putting on a stupid mask. Nobody would have believed that.
- [05:20]
Ted Cruz
Yeah.
- [05:21]
Michael Knowles
I mean, it really is an interesting moment. You and I were sitting backstage going, why are we so damn happy? And to be honest, on some level, maybe the American people should have said, to heck with this and collectively thrown our mask down. But the problem is, on an airplane, they've got a power imbalance. If you did that yesterday and said, to heck with this, I'm not going to wear a mask, they throw you off the plane. Yeah.
- [05:47]
Ted Cruz
And they did it to a lot of people. The Navy SEAL who killed Osama bin Laden, you think that guy would get a lot of credit in America, he'd be able to do kind of whatever he wants. They booted him off the plane.
- [05:59]
Michael Knowles
It is, by the way, killing Osama bin Laden, that's kind of a big deal. You would think.
- [06:04]
Ted Cruz
Not enough to let you ride mask free, though.
- [06:06]
Michael Knowles
You know, it is not only that, but there was a big push to add to the no Fly List people thrown off planes for not wearing masks.
- [06:16]
Ted Cruz
Yeah. Yeah.
- [06:17]
Michael Knowles
So this is a list that's designed for terrorists, for people that are, you know, actually want to hijack planes and fly them into buildings and murder people. We're now going to add the guy who shot Osama bin Laden, arguably, because if you failed to comply with this mandate, you were going to be banned. And the argument was not even just one airline, because some people say, well, they're a private company now. What they were urging the federal government to do is make it a no fly list on any airline.
- [06:47]
Ted Cruz
Yeah.
- [06:47]
Michael Knowles
That you were forbidden. If you wanted to go to Tuscaloosa, any other place in the United States or across planet Earth, you better get a bicycle or a car or a truck or a boat, because you weren't going to be able to fly. And that power imbalances is, I think, dangerous.
- [07:04]
Ted Cruz
So I'll take the win however we can get it, I think. I don't want to let the perfect get in the way of the good. I don't want to clutch defeat from the jaws of victory like conservatives so often do. You know a fair bit about the law more than I do. What was the argument here from the judge?
- [07:22]
Michael Knowles
So the argument. This is a district judge in Florida, Federal district judge. And it was a group of plaintiffs who brought a lawsuit. A couple of the plaintiffs, one said that they suffered anxiety from wearing a mask. Another said they weren't flying nearly as much because they didn't like wearing a mask. Had trouble breathing. And the Biden administration defended. And the argument was, does the CDC have the authority to issue this rule? I gotta say, every time I was on a plane, I would hear the flight attendant come over the loudspeaker, and the flight attendant would say, federal law requires you to wear your mask. And I'm sitting there going, wait a second. Federal law? I seem to recall for something to be federal law, there being something in the Constitution about it passing the House, passing the Senate, being signed by the president, becoming. Well, you know, federal law.
- [08:14]
Ted Cruz
If I'm not mistaken, Senator, you are a federal lawmaker, is that right?
- [08:19]
Michael Knowles
And if that happened, I kind of missed it because we didn't vote on it. We didn't have any federal law on it. What happened? Joe Biden issued an executive order. He got into the White House, he issued an order that said, I think a mask mandate is a hot diggity damn good idea.
- [08:35]
Ted Cruz
Those were his exact words.
- [08:38]
Michael Knowles
He invoked corn pop, too. I don't know what it meant. Then he promptly turned to shake the hand of an imaginary rabbit that was next to him, as he. As he does, by the way, the imaginary rabbit's right here. Good to see you.
- [08:48]
Ted Cruz
Nice to see you.
- [08:51]
Michael Knowles
Two weeks later, the cdc, the bureaucrats at the cdc, put out this new rule. Except they said it's not a rule because there's actually a federal law, the Administrative Procedures act, that says if a federal agency wants to issue a rule, there's a way you issue a rule. And in particular, you put it up for notice and comment. In other words, the agency says, okay, this is a rule we're considering the American people. You got 30 days to comment on us, to tell us, is it a good idea? Is it a bad idea? You've got to weigh the arguments. You've got to weigh the evidence. And the legal standard is that it can't be arbitrary or capricious. And the federal district judge in this case has a very reasoned opinion that goes through in detail, examining the statutory language. Number one, there's a general statute that deals with health crises. And she says, look, that statute doesn't give these broad powers to impose, whether it's mask mandates or vaccine mandates or. Remember, the government before argued that they had the power to impose an eviction moratorium to decree if you happen to have a rental house, if you're renting out your garage apartment, you can't collect rent. Why? Because we decree it to be so never mind the niceties of passing a law subject to democratic accountability. And the district judge Went through the statutory language. CDC admitted it hadn't done notice and comment. It said, well, it was an emergency.
- [10:22]
Ted Cruz
Because they have the right, according to the Administrative Procedures act, to say, well, we have good cause to suspend these rules. Because if we didn't suspend the rules, why mayhem would ensue. We would not be able to take care of this public emergency.
- [10:39]
Michael Knowles
Well, and one of the things the district court said is, look, this thing had been going on for over a year. COVID infections were going down. If it was suddenly this oh, so crazy emergency, what happened the prior year, how did you suddenly discover it was an emergency then? Yeah. And so this decision, the end of the decision, the district judge vacates the rule. So as we were sitting backstage getting ready for the show, we were talking about, okay, what does this mean? And, like, I'm going to fly back to Texas tomorrow. And I'm, like, wondering, am I going to wear the stupid mask or not? I really hope the answer is no. And it was an interesting question. What is the Biden administration going to do? And one option is appeal. And they could still appeal. They probably will, but maybe not. Another option, they could conceivably try to defy the court, but that's a high risk option. Because the end of the district court's order, the district court vacates the rule. So when you vacate the rule, you essentially erase it, and it doesn't exist.
- [11:42]
Ted Cruz
So because this was the question some of my friends have been asking me, I think my friend who is 30,000ft probably has answered it practically to some degree.
- [11:50]
Michael Knowles
But usually when you talk about your friend 30,000ft, you're talking about the good Lord, but in this case, you're talking about a priest on an airplane.
- [11:57]
Ted Cruz
Slightly lower. I would say that's right, though not unrelated.
- [12:00]
Michael Knowles
There you go.
- [12:02]
Ted Cruz
But my friends will ask me, they'll say, okay, so the bureaucracy said this, and the judge said this. And so, look, I don't care about any of that. Do I have to wear the mask or not? You're saying the ruling actually does erase the rule.
- [12:16]
Michael Knowles
So the rule is vacated. It has no force and effect. But the next question was gonna be, what are the airlines gonna say? Because the airlines are still private companies, they could in theory say we're gonna require a mask, even though the federal law doesn't require. Remember, we had a mask mandate before that, early on in Covid, a lot of us flew, and you wore masks. There wasn't any federal law. They didn't say federal law required it. It's just the airlines wanted to get people to come on planes, and they said, all right, let's put this rule in place because people are scared it'll let them come on. So conceivably, the airlines could have said, we're going to keep this rule in place. But it's interesting that the debate on this has shifted so early on, the most vigorous advocates for this rule were the flight attendants union. The union of flight attendants were pushing for it, concerned about safety. That's now shifted. I think a lot of flight attendants are annoyed at being mask police. Their whole job is particularly. Have you noticed the flight attendant that's so uptight, that literally is. Between sips, you put your Diet Coke down. Nope. Put your mask on.
- [13:25]
Ted Cruz
Not only do you. And I find this is the rarity, usually the flight attendants have been very nice about it.
- [13:31]
Michael Knowles
Most of them know it's ridiculous.
- [13:32]
Ted Cruz
But that distinct minority, there's one or.
- [13:35]
Michael Knowles
Two that take it very seriously.
- [13:37]
Ted Cruz
And I should point out, Senator, by the way, you are somewhat responsible for this. I'll just call you out right on stage. You were coming out to visit. Back when we were in la, you were coming out to visit. We were going to film some episodes together. And you pioneered. You pioneered the coffee cup strategy. So you take one slow sip from your coffee for about four hours at a time, and that way you don't need to wear the mask.
- [14:01]
Michael Knowles
And I have to admit, one of the ridiculous things about just sort of the reality of being in the Senate is there's always some jackrabbit. I'm trying to use the very polite language. Yeah. I'm mellowing my old age who will try to snap a picture of you and they want to catch. And by the way, I love the pictures of the Democratic senators who insist on mass mandates for everyone who take their mask off and are happily sitting on planes, ignoring it. But I will say one defensive strategy on planes. I do. So, number one, my mask, which I hope to frame as a relic, never to need again, is a Texas mask that says, come and take it. But I'm particularly fond of draping on one ear with a coffee cup. And I can nurse the heck out of a coffee cup.
- [14:58]
Ted Cruz
That's in case the coffee spills. The mask will catch it.
- [15:00]
Audience Member
Yeah.
- [15:00]
Michael Knowles
Yeah, that's exactly right.
- [15:01]
Ted Cruz
And in that case, you actually are saying, please come and take it. I don't want the mask. It's yours. Now go on. So, okay, this makes.
- [15:08]
Michael Knowles
But the airline CEOs recently wrote a letter to the administration almost all the major CEOs saying, okay, please get rid of the mask mandate. Enough already. And that may have shifted the dynamic, because what happened this afternoon after the decision is several of the major airline CEOs announced, okay, we're done. And I'm amazed that your friend was on the plane. And they're literally announcing, it's like the World Series score. Take your damn masks off.
- [15:37]
Ted Cruz
The freedom wins. The freedom wins. So I. Obviously, we've got a few people to thank. I want to thank Yaff, as always, for hosting. Want to thank the Logan family for supporting this lecture series. I want to thank this judge for letting me breathe free again. That's going to be great.
- [15:53]
Michael Knowles
Amen. Judge Meisel.
- [15:54]
Ted Cruz
Judge. She is great.
- [15:56]
Michael Knowles
If any of y'all are going out on the town. I know nobody at the University of Alabama drinks.
- [16:01]
Ted Cruz
Nope. Nope.
- [16:03]
Michael Knowles
But, but. But if. I'm not going to suggest beer or tequila or anything, but if you happen to have some seltzer water, lift. A toast to Judge Meisel.
- [16:14]
Ted Cruz
Yes, she was. She did great. I wish, I wish, I wish we didn't need to rely on just one judge to give us our basic freedoms back. But that's the world we're living in. I'll take the win. And this actually is exactly how I feel about a separate, albeit somewhat related, situation on Twitter. I don't like that we need to rely on one eccentric billionaire to bail us out of this censorship nonsense that the leftist ruling class has foisted on us. But I sure am glad he's doing it. However it's going to work. We need free speech in this country. And if a handful of oligarchs are going to control speech in our republic, then help us. Elon, go on in there and buy out Twitter. So then, Senator, my question to you is, Elon goes in, he tries to buy Twitter. He already has a huge stake, over 9%. He wants to take over the rest of the company. The Twitter board of directors, as I understand it, pulled a poison pill. Yep. They said that they're going to actually crash the value of the shares. So they're going to harm the shareholders to stop Elon Musk from being able to take over the company. Because censoring conservatives is more important to them than maintaining the value of their company. So is it all over?
- [17:31]
Michael Knowles
Thankfully, no. All right, let me say first of all, this battle right now between Elon Musk and Twitter, I think it was a funny Freudian slip. I didn't actually mean to say that.
- [17:44]
Ted Cruz
But a Freudian slip is where you say one thing but me and your mother. Right, that goes.
- [17:51]
Michael Knowles
I think it is one of the most important moments for free speech in decades. This is a testing moment where big tech keeps getting more and more brazen, saying, we can control everything you say. We can control everything you hear, we can control everything in your feed, we can control everything you listen. We can silence every view we don't like. We can only amplify the views we like. And suddenly, Elon Musk came in and is threatening to tip over the Apple cart. And there are lots of aspects to us, I will confess. Probably the funniest is the Washington Post, which is wholly owned by Jeff Bezos, wrote an editorial saying it would be bad for democracy for a rich Silicon Valley billionaire to own a means of communication.
- [18:47]
Ted Cruz
Well, they admit it. They say, democracy dies in darkness. That's the motto of the Washington. They're saying that's what happened.
- [18:53]
Michael Knowles
What's funny is when they wrote it, they meant it as a bad thing. It is now their mission statement. More. More darkness. Kill democracy. But look. So what has happened? Twitter, Elon Musk came in, bought just under 10%. Initially, they offered him a board seat. They said, hey, come join. Join the board. And it was very funny seeing these Twitter engineers losing their mind that he was going to join the board. And then suddenly Elon said, wait a second. I think I won't join your board. I think I'll buy you.
- [19:28]
Ted Cruz
Because there was a condition. If he joined the board, he couldn't buy more than 15% of the company, which means, relatively, he has very little power.
- [19:36]
Michael Knowles
Yeah. He could stand there and yell.
- [19:38]
Ted Cruz
Yeah.
- [19:38]
Michael Knowles
And he's like, wait a second, I'm richer than all of you guys. Like, you know those electric cars in the. In the parking lot? I made them, by the way. This dude literally launched his car into space.
- [19:52]
Ted Cruz
Yeah. That's how you know he means business.
- [19:54]
Michael Knowles
You know, it's. It's. He's an unusual guy. I've gotten to know Elon a little bit, and he is. I have not smoked a spliff with him. Not yet. That. That's Joe Rogan.
- [20:02]
Ted Cruz
You're more of a cigar guy.
- [20:05]
Michael Knowles
I would smoke a cigar with him. I haven't. But, Elon, I'll invite you to smoke a cigar anytime. But instead of joining the board, initially said yes, then he said no. And he put an offer out. And he put an offer for substantially more than. Twitter. Shares were trading $54 a share. And the Twitter board met in emergency session and decided, holy crap. Our shareholders making a 40% profit overnight. Is really bad. We are so committed to censorship, we got to stop it. And so poison pill, and this is something that really grew up in the 1980s when you had corporate raiders. A poison pill is a mechanism where a board of directors can vote in a punitive measure. In this case, if any individual acquires more than 15% of the stock, the other stockholders can buy more stock at a much cheaper price. And so it basically dilutes the stock and makes it much, much more expensive to buy the company.
- [21:07]
Ted Cruz
And in this case, it would be every shareholder of Twitter can buy more stock at a discounted price.
- [21:12]
Michael Knowles
Except Elon Musk. Except for Elon Musk. No. It is designed to stop the takeover. It's designed to stop people from selling their shares for the higher amount and making the money. But what's interesting. So there are a couple of things. Number one, Elon tweeted three words. Love me tender.
- [21:30]
Ted Cruz
Great song.
- [21:31]
Michael Knowles
Great song. I don't know if he was humming it. I don't know if he had blue suede shoes, but he tweeted love me tender, which everyone took to suggest that his next step may be to make a tender offer, which is a formal offer to all Twitter shareholders, presumably at that price, or maybe a higher price to purchase their shares. Now, a tender offer you do through a formal filing with the sec. That's one potential escalation, although the tender offer presumably would trigger the poison pill. Secondly, another option he can do that's being widely discussed is he can find a few friends. And, you know, when you're the richest.
- [22:14]
Ted Cruz
Man on planet Earth, you're not hanging around with paupers.
- [22:18]
Michael Knowles
You can find a few friends. And if, say, he's got three friends, each of whom acquire 14.9%, that math adds up to more than 50%, but doesn't trigger the poison pill. So that's one possibility. I know there's been speculation Peter Thiel might join him, some private equity funds might join him, but if he had a coalition that buys Twitter, that could get to the same place. You could also see lawsuits, because one of the amazing things, the Twitter board of directors, other than Jack Dorsey, who's leaving the board of directors, and by the way, the guy really does look like a billy goat under a bridge.
- [22:58]
Ted Cruz
Hipster Rasputin, I call him. Yep.
- [23:00]
Michael Knowles
Like, it's one thing to grow a beard down to your knees, but, like, to never comb it.
- [23:04]
Ted Cruz
Like, it's really weird, kind of odd, Eastern orthodox, Silicon Valley style.
- [23:10]
Michael Knowles
It is. It's unusual. I met him, but when I met him, he had a soul patch. That's how long ago it's been. That's actually true. But other than Dorsey, almost none of the members of the board of Twitter own any significant stock.
- [23:27]
Ted Cruz
Well, this is something that's pretty strange if you look at the board. And Dorsey is now leaving the board of the company that he co founded. The amount of Twitter that these board members actually own is miniscule. It's barely anything at all. And this is the other point with Elon. So I hope that the Elon Musk takeover works. I want more Babylon Bee tweets. I want Charlie Kirk to get back on. And really, I need the Trump tweets.
- [23:50]
Michael Knowles
I need more.
- [23:51]
Ted Cruz
Yes, yes, we need them. It's one of the main reasons. So I want it to work. I want it to work. But even if it doesn't work, one of the things that Elon has already accomplished is he has exposed very serious corruption at Twitter, which is just one of the big tech companies. It's actually the smallest one. It never occurred to me to think, wait, who owns Twitter? BlackRock owns a lot of Twitter.
- [24:20]
Michael Knowles
Look, the giant funds. And to see Wall street rush in and say, no, we want to keep the censorship going.
- [24:26]
Ted Cruz
Yeah.
- [24:27]
Michael Knowles
To see a Saudi prince come in and say, no, no, no, no, no. No free speech allowed. Like, what the hell?
- [24:33]
Ted Cruz
Wait, since when does Saudi Arabia get to dictate free speech in America?
- [24:37]
Michael Knowles
And it is so the Twitter board of directors just brazenly screws their shareholders. Just says, we like our power more. Now, Twitter is incorporated as a Delaware corporation. A whole bunch of companies in America are incorporated in Delaware. It has corporate law that is very well developed. And there's a standard, the general standard. If a shareholder sues the board of directors is what's called the business judgment rule. Okay? And it means, as a general matter, there's a high degree of deference to the decision either the shareholder, the board of directors makes or the company officers make. But there's an exception, a case called the Revlon case, that is in the context of a hostile takeover, if it becomes clear that the company's gonna be sold, then the board of directors can't just act to protect their own rear ends and keep their own jobs. They have a duty to the shareholders to maximize the price, to get the highest price for the shareholders. So one of the things that may flow out of this is a whole bunch of lawsuits. And, you know, it's striking. One of the. One of the board members of Twitter is Bob Zoellick. Bob Zoelek was The head of the US Trade Representative under George W. Bush is, I think, the lone Republican on the board. And Elon pointed out, although Bob Zoellick is on the board, according to the public records, he has never tweeted once in his life.
- [26:03]
Ted Cruz
Does he even know what the company is?
- [26:05]
Michael Knowles
He literally. It's like you're on the board of like a dairy and you've never had a glass of milk. Like, like it's, it's a little bit weird. Yeah, but it is exposing the fundamental corruption that is at stake. And, and you know, I gotta say, a lot of folks when it comes to free speech, they, they say, oh, everybody does it, the left does it, the right does it. When it comes to censorship. And that's just not true in practice.
- [26:32]
Ted Cruz
That is not what we've seen.
- [26:34]
Michael Knowles
You know, nobody, Elon Musk is not saying, I'm gonna buy Twitter and silence all the leftists. He's not saying that. It's not okay. Just my side gets to shut up. The other side, he's saying, let everybody talk.
- [26:46]
Ted Cruz
Because the fun of Twitter is picking fights with celebrities. So if you got rid of the leftists, what would be the point?
- [26:51]
Michael Knowles
It would be unbelievably boring. Yes. You know, it is also interesting, Michael, there's a similarity, I think, between this fight and the mask mandate. In both places you have private corporations with monopoly or near monopoly positions. Whether it is the airlines, you've got an oligopoly. You only have a handful of major airlines. If you want to get from Houston to Tuscaloosa, unless you're willing to get on a car and drive a long way, you got a handful of options. And those companies have exclusive control over how you can get there on big tech. Twitter itself is not a monopolist. But if you look at big tech collectively, whether Twitter, Facebook, Google, YouTube, those four companies together control a massive amount of discourse.
- [27:43]
Ted Cruz
We're talking about the flow of 90% plus of information around the Internet, which is the public square, which means they're controlling the republic. And a republic, when you speak, when you persuade your fellow citizens, that's how you govern yourself.
- [27:57]
Michael Knowles
Well, and all of the lefty blue checks for years said they're a private company. If you don't like it, build your own. And Elon said, all right, I'll buy them.
- [28:08]
Ted Cruz
I bet I buy my own.
- [28:09]
Michael Knowles
And they're losing their minds. I mean, to see these so called journalists, I don't know if you saw. Do you ever watch Morning Joe?
- [28:18]
Ted Cruz
As little as possible.
- [28:20]
Michael Knowles
Nobody does. I mean, I'm not sure they have a view.
- [28:23]
Ted Cruz
When I'm going through the airport with my little mask on, then I see Morning Joe.
- [28:28]
Michael Knowles
Joe, I saw actually a clip on Twitter of Mika saying, look, if Elon does this big tech, they'll be able to control what people think. That's our job. And she literally, like, oops, said the quiet part out loud.
- [28:45]
Ted Cruz
Do you know? So there was a big fact check of this clip that was going around, and they said, no, this was manipulated. Actually, the clip is older. It's referring to Donald Trump. And they thought this was a big dunk, a slam. The same point holds. She's saying that she is supposed to tell people what to think.
- [29:04]
Michael Knowles
Yep.
- [29:04]
Ted Cruz
And so what we're seeing here is finally someone stepping up and saying, no, we're gonna crack this monopoly or oligopoly of power that is censoring half of the country, which it deems deplorable and irredeemable. The corruption runs deep. We're gonna expose it, we're gonna air it out, and we're gonna have a free exchange of ideas. Now, speaking of a free exchange of ideas, I know we have lots of brilliant, insightful Alabama students in this room. Should we open up to some Q and A?
- [29:33]
Michael Knowles
Absolutely.
- [29:34]
Ted Cruz
So let's bring out our friend Liz Wheeler. While Liz comes out, head on over. Subscribe to verdict, the verdict YouTube channel, the verdict audio podcast, the Verdict, I don't know. MySpace, AOL inspection. We got all sorts of stuff. Make sure you head on over and subscribe. Liz, do we have any questions from our Verdict members?
- [29:55]
Liz Wheeler
We do. We do. We have questions from Verdict. We're excited to hear questions from anybody in the audience. If you are a leftist, if you have a challenging question, maybe a question that dissents from the viewpoints up here, you can come to the front of the line. Are we ready?
- [30:08]
Ted Cruz
I'm ready.
- [30:09]
Michael Knowles
Let's go.
- [30:09]
Liz Wheeler
Let's take some questions.
- [30:11]
Ted Cruz
Hey, thank y'all so much for coming out. I really appreciate it. So a lot of us are students, and some of us are gonna be graduating and leaving here in a couple weeks. And I was wondering, going into a job, how would you recommend that we continue to fight for what we believe in and for conservative values without running the risk of losing our livelihoods?
- [30:32]
Michael Knowles
Look, it's a great question, and it's a hard question, because the censorship regime is not just big tech and it's not just universities. It's becoming more and more in the corporate world as well. What I would say is, be a happy warrior, speak with your friends and colleagues. Not angry, not in your face, but just speak. You know, something like the mask mandate. Just about everyone knows how silly this is. We've seen in Covid arbitrary rules shut down, schools shut down. And most people in the quiet. You know, SNL did a skit recently of a bunch of liberals sitting around the table going, do masks work? Oh, no, no, I'm not allowed to say that. And so what I would say is just speak the truth. But you don't have to be in your face and angry about it. And that's powerful.
- [31:29]
Ted Cruz
Michael, I think there's a real risk you run. I agree with everything you said, Senator. There is a risk of a certain putting off your courage until tomorrow. So you often hear this from students. They say, should I speak up in class or should I keep my head down? And then later on, I'll speak up. I'll voice my opinions. When. When you're getting a paycheck and you have rent to pay, is that when you're gonna speak? Well, okay, maybe I'll get my first job. It's entry level, though. Maybe when I get a promotion. So when you're married and you have kids and you've got an even higher salary, that's when you.
- [32:07]
Michael Knowles
No.
- [32:07]
Ted Cruz
Okay, you're right, Michael. Maybe when I make partner. When I make partner and I've got my mortgage payment and I gotta put my kids through college and I gotta do this, that and the other thing, then I'm going to speak my mind. No, you're not. The incentives are only working against you. It's only going to get harder. So the question is, what is your integrity worth to you? Virtue is a habit. You got to practice it. Just like vice is a habit. So courage is a virtue. It's the prerequisite for all of the other virtues. I'm totally with Senator Cruz. You don't need to be a jerk about it. You don't need to be flamboyant, shooting off fireworks at the water cooler. But you can stand your ground and speak your mind. If you're not going to do it today, you're probably just not going to do it.
- [32:46]
Michael Knowles
Well, and let me underscore something also, which is, if you look at the left, what's turned corporate America so hard left in recent years? You know, I remember about 10 years ago, there was the whole political correct movement that started in campuses 2010 to 20 years ago. And at the time, a lot of us kind of laughed at us and said, this is silly, but this is harmless. When people graduate and have to get jobs, they'll put that silliness behind them. Well, what happened is a lot of the leftists who were 21 and 22, they went and got jobs and now they're 28 or 30 or 32 and they're the young woke army in corporations. And the amazing thing is the CEOs are terrified of them. It's the most backwards thing in the world, the degree to which the students who graduated a decade now ago are terrorizing corporate America. And so what I would say is just to underscore what Michael said, don't be silent, but do it with a smile.
- [33:47]
Ted Cruz
Yep, yep.
- [33:48]
Liz Wheeler
There's an element of practicality to it as well that requires some self reflection. If you know what your line is, the line that you're willing to or the line that you're not willing to cross, meaning there might be some liberal issue that, you know, you just can't stay quiet anymore. If you have reflected on that yourself and you know what your line is on various issues, then you don't have to feel that every day. You have to be a dissenter every day. You have to be the agitator. You know exactly what the most important issues are and you've sort of pre planned. Well, if it's this issue and it gets to this point, this is when I'm going to talk to my colleagues or this issue and this point I'm going to take it up the corporate ladder. And that's a little bit more organized and a little bit less emotional too.
- [34:28]
Michael Knowles
Thanks.
- [34:36]
Audience Member
Hold it or. All right, Senator Cruz. Something that routinely surprises me about US politicians, especially conservatives, is their support for Guantanamo Bay, considering that of the 37 who are still imprisoned there, the vast majority have never been convicted with anything or charged and 17 are being held indefinitely with no plans for transfer. And these people are routinely being denied the regular due process that we ordinarily afford people. Additionally, some of the methods of interrogation include rectal feeding and waterboarding. And in one case, one prisoner claimed that he was used as a training dummy by the CIA and that he suffered brain damage. I guess my question is how can America claim certain ideals while also maintaining that it has to have these facilities open?
- [35:29]
Michael Knowles
Well, because there are enemies who hate us. And the US Constitution applies to Americans in America. It doesn't apply to terrorists, to enemy terrorists in foreign countries that are trying to kill us. On September 11, 2001, I still remember where I was. I was in Washington D.C. we lived less than a mile from the Pentagon. My wife Heidi was Working at the White House at the time, we lost a very good friend of ours who was in the plane that flew into the Pentagon in the most horrific act of terrorism in United States history. That act of warfare came from an ideology, radical Islamic terrorism, that wages jihad in America. And we went and waged war. And you say, well, gosh, we didn't provide due process to them. Well, you know what? When we send a fighter jet over to Afghanistan and we identify people who are Al Qaeda, or in later manifestations, isis, Al Nusra, their whole series of radical Islamic terrorist organizations, and we fire missiles at them and blow them up, they don't get due process either. Warfare is a dangerous process. If you look at Guantanamo Bay, it is explicitly outside of US Jurisdiction. The reason we've housed them there is so that the federal courts would not place them under their scrutiny. Now, that being said, the federal courts have asserted considerable authority over Guantanamo, even though it was a foreign jurisdiction. And you noted enhanced interrogation. I will say it is US Law, it is US Policy now under both Republicans and Democrats, that we do not torture people. And so the example you gave of using that individual as a dummy and beating him, if that happened, that was a violation of law, and anyone who did so would be prosecuted. We don't torture them, but we do keep them incapacitated. The people who are there are the very worst of the worst. And if you look at the history of releasing terrorists, Barack Obama released a significant number of terrorists from Guantanamo Bay. Joe Biden released a significant number of terrorists, particularly from Afghanistan. And we release them, and they turn around, and a large percentage of them come back and attack us again. You remember the guy who blew up and murdered 13 servicemen and women in Afghanistan? That man had been imprisoned at Bagram. And when Biden abandoned the Bagram airfield, he was released and turned around and murdered 13 servicemen and women. So why shouldn't we close Guantanamo Bay? Because I don't want terrorists to murder America.
- [38:31]
Ted Cruz
You know, just to add. I agree with that, and to add a little bit of context, you mentioned waterboarding as an example of torture. Waterboarding is not torture. We waterboard our own troops in training. So unless we're torturing our own troops, I guess we'll have a lot of lawsuits on our hands. In that case, I don't think that quite counts. But furthermore, one of the arguments against enhanced interrogation or even against torture is that we have agreed in international law to afford certain courtesies to enemy combatants who abide by the laws of war. Now, some people have argued that we should extend these courtesies even to terrorists. This is a very, very bad idea. The reason that we extend these courtesies to certain enemy combatants is so that we can protect civilians. So we say you need to wear a uniform. You need to not target civilians to achieve your political goals. So if we extend those same courtesies to terrorists who very directly are targeting civilians to achieve political goals, we undermine the entire purpose of those protections in the first place. So to borrow a line from my friend Andrew Clavin, I think that waterboarding jihadis should be an Olympic sport. And I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
- [39:45]
Michael Knowles
But I will say, notwithstanding your and Andrew Clavin's view, it is currently against US Law. So we're not doing so.
- [39:55]
Audience Member
Sorry, just with all due respect, my question wasn't entirely about releasing prisoners. I know you brought that up. It also, it was mostly to address the waterboarding thing. We know that the studies suggest that torture doesn't work. I would just like to clarify. Or enhanced interrogation. Sorry. My question was not about obviously releasing these people. That's a horrible consequence. What happened. Obviously it was mostly about humane treatment.
- [40:24]
Michael Knowles
So listen, and I agree we should provide humane treatment. And it's one of the things America does that is different. It's why US Law prohibits torture. And I'm glad you say that you agree that these folks shouldn't be released. I can tell you over the last decade, I have repeatedly forced votes on whether or not we should release people out of Guantanamo. And Joe Biden and the Democrats are pressing to do so. When we have votes on this, they vote party line, I think we are likely to see an effort from the Biden administration to shut Guantanamo Bay down. And if that happens, or not to shut the base down, but to release the prisoners, to shut the detention facility down. If that happens, I believe the result of that will be that Americans will die because those terrorists will go back and commit more terrorist attacks against us.
- [41:16]
Liz Wheeler
Thank you for your question.
- [41:18]
Michael Knowles
Thank you.
- [41:20]
Liz Wheeler
Our next question. Our next question. I'm going to cut you in the line for just one second. Our next question is actually from a member of the Verdict plus community. As you know, if you want exclusive access to Senator Cruz asking questions not just on stage at these events, you can join us at verdict with TedCruz.com plus if you use the access code live, you can get your first month free on an annual subscription. And you too might get to jump in line and ask a question at one of these events. So our question tonight is from Cracklin, and this is a good question. I think Cracklin says, do you think it's appropriate to call someone a groomer if they're trying to teach sexual material to young children?
- [41:59]
Michael Knowles
I think as a general matter, people ought to ratchet their rhetoric down. Listen, there are predators. There are predators that target kids. There are predators who commit horrific acts. I spent five and a half years as Solicitor General of Texas. I handled a lot of cases of people who committed horrific, horrific crimes on little kids. There is also an effort from the left to sexualize everything. All of the uproar over the Florida bill. The Florida bill says you shouldn't be teaching kids pre K through third grade about sex. Now, I think that is obviously right. A kid in Pre K is 4 years old. I'm not interested in a kid in pre K learning about gay sex, straight sex, or anything else. I want them to learn about playing with blocks and how to count. And so listen, some of the language saying, all right, anyone trying to push their ideology as a groomer, I think that's probably. That rhetoric escalates things a bit. Now, are there people who are groomers who are actually pedophiles targeting kids? Yes, but I wouldn't use that accusation lightly because I would reserve it for people who actually have direct ill intent targeted at kids.
- [43:24]
Liz Wheeler
So basically, if the result of the indoctrination in these sexual materials is political gratification versus sexual gratification, then you would make that distinction with the term.
- [43:35]
Michael Knowles
Yeah, look, that's a good point. And I like the way you phrased it. I think there are people who were misguided trying to drive Disney stepping in, saying in every episode now they're gonna have Mickey and Pluto going at it. Really?
- [43:56]
Ted Cruz
Thank you for that image, Senator.
- [43:58]
Michael Knowles
But it's just like, come on, guys, Like. Like, these are kids. And, you know, you can always shift to Cinemax if you want that. Like. Like, why do you have. It used to be, look, I'm a dad. Like, you used to be able to put your kids on the Disney Channel and be like, all right, something innocuous will happen. And you've got these, like, you know, I don't know, woke lefties that want to make it their political agenda. I just wish they'd leave their political agenda out of it. That being said, so I disagree with their political agenda. I think it's wrong and I think it's harmful. But I do think it is different from actual sexual predators that are trying to violate children. So I wouldn't conflate the two, I would say I disagree with both of them. But the latter is a serious criminal offense that you should go to jail for a long, long time. The former is just misguided and you should be made fun of.
- [44:53]
Liz Wheeler
And what's interesting is that. Well, yes, of course. What's interesting is that parents on both sides of the aisle feel strongly about this issue. It's not something that it's the right versus the left, Republicans versus Democrats. It's something where, and the surveys from Florida show this, that, that it's really parents versus this ideology. They feel that their children are being put in a, in a pipeline with this, with this agenda, that it's not just exposure to a principle or an ideology in an academic sense that they don't want their children to know about, that they feel that their children are being taught that something is right when objectively that thing is not right. And it's an interesting cultural battle in our nation.
- [45:33]
Michael Knowles
And there's an age and stage question. 4 year olds are different from 19 year olds.
- [45:39]
Ted Cruz
Vivek Ramaswamy, our friend, has dubbed the bill, which the libs call the don't say Gay bell. He says it's really just the Wait till eight bill. You know, after eight, then I guess all bets are off.
- [45:51]
Michael Knowles
It really was fourth grade. Hey, knock yourself out. You can get into all this stuff in fourth grade. That, that seems a little early to me anyway, but it is a pretty modest, like, can we give kids just a little bit of quiet until third grade?
- [46:07]
Liz Wheeler
All right, well, there's your, there's your answer and I want to get back to you. You've been waiting very patiently as always. If you want to ask a question on Verdict plus, just go to verdict with TedCruise.com and submit your questions. We do this every week. What's your name?
- [46:20]
Audience Member
My name is Sam Williams. So I'm a really big fan of both of you guys. I am conservative, but I do disagree with conservatives on the issue of school choice. So my aunt who votes Republican, she's a third grade teacher up in Michigan and they implemented school choice and according to her, it was a complete disaster. She was a teacher at one of the best schools in the area and once it was implemented, there was a major overcrowding issue. Most of the kids who came in were horrible, according to her, and there was a loss of community. What are your thoughts on the issue and are there any other policies you advocate for in regards to education?
- [46:54]
Michael Knowles
So that's a very interesting question. I will say. I don't know the specific results in Michigan and it may be that when they implemented it in Michigan, they did it badly. So your aunt's experience, I don't doubt that she underwent that. I can tell you on the issue of school choice, it's an issue I've been involved in 25, 30 years and I think it is the most important education issue and civil rights issue we have in this country. And let me explain why. Look, school choice is all about giving low income kids the same ability to choose that rich and middle class kids have always had. And I remember 20 years ago we'd have debates about school choice and people would say, well, if you give low income kids the ability to get scholarships, the ability to get out of failing schools, the result will be that it'll destroy the public schools. That is a serious argument. If that were in fact correct, I would oppose school choice. I have no interest in destroying the school system that provides the vast majority of education to kids. We now know though, because school choice has been implemented in over 30 jurisdictions across the country, the data disprove it. That if you look at, and what I would encourage you is to spend some time studying choice. It may be the program your aunt had experience with was badly designed and poorly implemented. I can tell you more broadly. The data show that when you have choice programs, number one, the kids who exercise choice who are in a failing school and go to another school to another option, they have significantly better test outcomes. They have better reading scores, better math scores, better graduation rates, they get into college at a much higher rate. But number two, and this is critically important, the public school improves. Competition is good. Think about it in every other respect, competition improves quality. And so it may be in the instance, I don't know if Michigan did a partial school choice hybrid where they may just have allowed kids in failing schools to get into the top public schools without additional competition. It may have been structured so it, it was designed to fail. That sometimes happens. But look, I think we ought to have an urgency when it comes to kids trapped and not able to get an education that we have ought to have an urgency that these kids now deserve a better option. And I support every option we can get them.
- [49:29]
Ted Cruz
I'm sympathetic to the view. I agree with what Senator Cruz just said. I'm sympathetic to the observations of your aunt and perhaps of you as well. I do think the alternative that I would prefer even to school choice, which I support, is that conservatives just take back the public schools from the libs and kick all the crazy racial and sexual theories out and raise the standards and do a lot better. I would love to be able to wield that kind of political power. You're seeing it in a handful of states. But it is worth pointing out that public education in America was from the beginning, a leftist endeavor. This is not a bug of the system. It's actually a feature going back, not just 20 years, but going back to John Dewey, going back to Horace Mann. This has been in there from the very beginning. And so I just fear, as a practical matter, I don't think we're going to reform the public education system merely by taking power and changing the curricula. I think we need a structural change as well. Which school choice has provided, which the homeschool movement has provided, which parochial schools have always provided. And so simply as a practical matter, living in the real world in 2022, I think that that is our only hope. The alternative is your five year old being indoctrinated into transgenderism and critical race theory. And I don't think any of us wants that.
- [50:47]
Liz Wheeler
And I think too that this idea, and this is building on what Michael says. If conservatives are going to retake the public school system, the only way to do that is through school choice. Because it's not just a matter of children being caught in a zip code with a failing school. It's also a way to ideologically hold each and every individual school and school district accountable. If enough parents can go to their school district or their principal and say, listen, I'm pulling my child out of this school because you are teaching critical race theory or queer theory. And not only is my child leaving the school, so is my money, if enough parents do that, then the school has a choice. Oh, are we going to adjust our curriculum or are we going to become a failing school? Are we going to become obsolete? So it's not just a matter of increasing educational outcomes, which is great. It's also how conservatives can rebalance the public school system.
- [51:48]
Audience Member
Hello, my name is Nick. And my question is back to the beginning. You talked about the mask mandate and the potential that the leftists were trying to get people who were thrown off the planes for not wearing the mask added to a no fly list. And that that was something reserved for terrorists. And you yourself referred to the January 6th protesters as terrorists. And so I'm wondering if you could elaborate a little bit on where the First Amendment right to not wear a mask or to demonstrate becomes the. You're now a terrorist and can't get on an airplane. And if there is any place in American society, for people, American citizens who have not been convicted of any crime to have been put onto the no fly list.
- [52:29]
Michael Knowles
So it's a great question. And the simple answer, the divide is those who commit acts of violence violate the criminal laws, and no one has a right to commit an act of violence. Those who engage in peaceful protest have a right to do so, regardless of their politics. So what I said about January 6, I was referring to the very limited number of violent individuals who physically assaulted police officers. And if you assault a police officer, I think you ought to be prosecuted, you ought to go to jail for a long time. That is very, very different from the tens of thousands of peaceful protesters that were there on January 6, that were speaking out, that were singing God Bless America, that were standing with President Trump. They were not remotely terrorists. And one of the things that is maddening is watching Democrats, watching the corporate media try to use the criminal conduct of a handful of people who engage in acts of violence to smear the peaceful First Amendment activity of tens of thousands of people in Washington, D.C. on January 6th and of millions of people across the country. And, you know, we see this incredible hypocrisy because in the entire preceding year, 2020, we saw riots across the country. Antifa and Black Lives Riot, Black Lives Matter riots across the country, police cars, firebombs, stores looted, people assaulted. And we saw the left excusing violent criminals. In fact, going so far, Kamala Harris raised bail money to bail out the violent rioters who are committing acts of violence. In my view, there is a simple dividing line. If you hurt someone else, if you commit an act of violence, you ought to be prosecuted. If you're engaged in speech, whether you and I agree with them or you and I disagree with them, you have a right to engage with in speech protected by the First Amendment.
- [54:37]
Audience Member
I agree with you in that regard, but the legal definition of terrorism, assaulting a police officer is not terrorism. Being convicted of assault does not put you on the no fly list. There are January 6th protesters who have been convicted of nothing, much less not terrorism, and they are nonetheless on the no fly list.
- [54:56]
Michael Knowles
Well, look, I am very concerned about this administration abusing the no fly list and abusing terrorism. You look at the individuals that have been charged. I have repeatedly raised with the Biden administration trying to get the Justice Department to answer questions about who is being charged. What are they being charged with? What are their conditions? Are they in solitary confinement? How long have they been in solitary confinement? How does that punishment compare to other similarly situated defendants? If you look at, for example, and I've joined with other senators writing to the Department of Justice. I've asked the Department of Justice, I've asked the FBI these questions. What you've got from this administration is they just utterly stiff arm Congress. They refuse to answer those questions. So when I write the attorney General, he doesn't respond. When I ask them at public hearings, he doesn't respond. And one of the challenges, the way our democratic process works at this point. Republicans are in the minority in both houses of Congress, which means we can raise issues, but we don't have the ability to convene hearings without a majority. We don't have the ability to pass legislation right now. But I think the abuse of power of this administration. I agree with you. Particularly look right after January 6th, we saw Washington D.C. surrounded with chain link fences with razor wire atop it. And it looked like Baghdad. And there were thousands of National Guardsmen standing there in camo uniforms holding machine guns with no bullets. They had no magazines. They were unloaded machine guns. Very quickly the red state governors realized, this is ridiculous. This is not merited by any actual public safety purpose. The red state governors brought the guardsmen home. So you had for months. The only guardsmen left were from blue states, from New York and New Jersey and Rhode Island. I'd go talk to these guys, to a person, they were frustrated, out of their mind because it was obviously political theater. It was not designed to prevent any real public safety threat. It was designed. It was Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer trying to say every conservative, every Trump supporter is a terrorist. And I'll tell you, I've heard multiple reports of people, of people who were in D.C. peacefully protesting and finding themselves on the no Fly List. That is an absolute abuse of power. The no Fly List is reserved for violent criminals and people who pose a very acute risk to public safety, not to those exercising their First Amendment rights.
- [57:55]
Liz Wheeler
All right, next question. Hi, what's your name?
- [57:59]
Audience Member
Hi, I'm Melissa. First off, I just want to thank you for coming not just here, but to any college campus to speak because it can be a very, very hostile environment for conservatives. And that kind of leads into my question. I'm more left leaning and I disagree on plenty of your policies, but we also agree on some other things. And I like to come to conservative events like this and hear you guys voices. But unfortunately there's been a lot of political censorship, a lot of shameful attempts to keep people from speaking, especially at college campuses, coming from my side of the political spectrum. And so I'd like to ask your advice of how I could encourage my peers to come out and actually see conservatives and hear you guys voices instead of relying on a stereotype perpetuated by the media to argue against straw men instead.
- [58:55]
Michael Knowles
So that is a fabulous question. Let me start by just saying thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. Thank you for being part of a civil discussion. You're right, that doesn't happen a lot on college campuses and it needs to happen. And it is important, I think, to listen not just to those you agree with, but to those you disagree with. In many ways, I think you can learn more listening to opposing views rather than people who are just reinforcing what you already think you know. I'm not sure I know the answer in terms of. If you look at the left, for a long time the left embraced free speech. You look at the free speech. One of the seminal Supreme Court decisions on free speech involved a anti war protestor who wore a jacket that said F the draft and it didn't abbreviate F. And it went all the way to the Supreme Court. And the Supreme Court said, okay, that may be one. You know, that may be one man's obscenity, but the First Amendment protects his right to say that. I think that's exactly right. There used to be lions of the left who embraced free speech. It is becoming more and more rare. And I do think it's important for your voice and for other voices on the political left to say, look, if we. All right, I don't know your economic views, but let's say your economic views are towards bigger government or in the socialist direction. I don't know if you agree with that or not, but hypothetically, let's say you do. If you believe socialism is a good idea and if you're actually convinced this is a better system that helps people more, then one ought to be willing and eager to have that conversation. Not just with people who agree with you, but people who disagree with you. And look to the facts of, okay, what actually lifts people out of poverty? What actually helps people achieve prosperity? And I do think so. I will say one very encouraging sign. So I'm very glad you're here. We were here a week ago at Michael's alma mater at Yale and it was striking. At Yale. Look, Yale is a very left wing campus. I'd say somewhere between a third to a half of the students leaned politically to the left.
- [61:22]
Ted Cruz
Not in the school. About 150% in the school Lean left. But in the audience that night, it was about a third to half.
- [61:29]
Michael Knowles
So we were talking about Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson and her confirmation. And when I mentioned she was confirmed, as I said, about a third to a half of the crowd began applauding vigorously. And I actually stepped back. I'm like, okay, this is fantastic. This is fantastic that y'all are here. You're listening. I'm not going to presume that you're necessarily persuaded, but to be in a conversation moves us in a positive direction. It was striking afterwards. So Michael and I went with a friend of Michael's who is an Orthodox rabbi on campus, and we went and had some scotch and smoked cigars, a.
- [62:08]
Ted Cruz
Couple of Coca Colas, late into the night.
- [62:10]
Michael Knowles
No. And it was interesting, the rabbi's comment in that he said this was the first time in decades that he had seen that many students at Yale sit down and have a civil, positive conversation with conservative ideas. And he thought it was a really important moment for the campus. And I think the more we just talk to each other, the better. It is one thing I encourage students to do, and it's something I encourage high school students, junior high students to do. Pick a podcast or two on the left and a podcast or two on the right and listen to them. Look, obviously I encourage people listen to this podcast, by the way. Listen to this podcast. But it's the sort of thing. As a consumer of news, what is hard right now is there's virtually no unbiased news. And we live in such a tribalized world that the left listens to left wing news, the right listens to right wing news. We don't have shared facts, we don't have conversations together. And at least the way I try to go through that is I try to, rather than pretend any source is unbiased, I try to listen to and read things that are explicitly on the left and explicitly on the right. And usually the truth is somewhere in the middle. So what I would say is your voice engaged on both sides of the aisle. Hopefully that becomes contagious.
- [63:38]
Ted Cruz
I would be curious, too, just to hear your thoughts on, because I think your diagnosis is obviously right about the left censoring conservatives. I almost don't hear any calls by conservatives to censor the libs. Probably there just aren't enough of us. So why is it? What makes you different? Why are you here? Why are you interested in, even if you disagree with us, in hearing what we have to say? While so many of your fellow left wingers are not, I mean, I would.
- [64:06]
Audience Member
Say I'm not really interested in some big tribe of people. I think we're all individuals and we all have our individual policy beliefs on separate issues. I certainly agree with you on gun control. I'm a big gun rights advocate. I believe everybody should be able to own a gun if they want to because that's your right to protect yourself. And I think having those opinions that kind of differ from people who may share my opinion on health care, for example, really kind of puts into perspective the way that we are treating. And I say we, but I don't really generally want to associate myself with people who try to censor you guys. But the way that leftists try to treat conservatives and your opinions, having that kind of experience really lends some perspective to why we should give you guys way more respect than we actually.
- [64:57]
Ted Cruz
Thank you very much.
- [64:58]
Michael Knowles
Thank you.
- [64:58]
Liz Wheeler
That's a great question. While we're waiting for this next question, by the way, you guys can use that same promo code live to get a good deal, 10% off the merch sorts. Verdict with TedCruz.com Shop if you want. You know, those hats with the sweet cactus, maybe for the back of your laptop, a T shirt. Verdict with TedCruise.com/shop promo CodeLive. What's your name?
- [65:25]
Ted Cruz
Hi.
- [65:25]
Liz Wheeler
Thanks for coming.
- [65:26]
Audience Member
I'm David Bender. Thanks for being here. And so as Michael, as a fellow conservative Catholic, I was curious why so many pro life conservatives are pro contraception. Because it seems that pro contraception kind of leads to an idea that children are side effects or kind of at least the idea that you don't have to have kids and kind of seems to lead to the idea that if you are pregnant then you can get rid of it with an abortion.
- [65:57]
Ted Cruz
That's a great point. I've heard cynical people say that life is a fatal sexually transmitted disease. And unfortunately, the way that sexual education is taught, very often we are taught that babies are a kind of disease or a kind of punishment, when in fact babies are the greatest gift from God that you're going to have in this physical world. And it's very sad because a lot of people will struggle by the time they wake up to this fact. They may struggle to conceive because they're older and they've put things off. Just as a personal note, I've got one baby. He's 13, 14 months old. I wish I knew the precise number. My wife's going to yell at me when I get home. I guess he has to be 13 months old. And I have another baby on the way, and I'm very excited. But the first one didn't happen right away. I thought, you know, this is going to be two seconds. I've been told my whole life if you look at a girl the wrong way, she's going to get pregnant. And it didn't happen. I have a number of friends who've put this off, and now they're really struggling and they're really upset. And it's a huge problem that we realize all too late. To your point, on why the pro life movement doesn't focus on it, I think it doesn't focus on it because of priorities, because political action requires you to prioritize certain things. And on a question such as contraception, there is huge disagreement, even among pro lifers, even among conservatives, on an issue such as in vitro fertilization. The Catholic view and a large part of the pro life movement is opposed to in vitro fertilization, but a lot of people are for it as well. On the issue of abortion, we're all on board. We're all on the same team. And so there might be disagreements and we might believe that certain sides of the pro life movement don't understand the bioethical implications of certain things. But political action requires that you form coalitions and you fight the battles that are most winnable and most in front of you. And right now we're on the verge of overruling Roe versus Wade. That could be happening within a matter of weeks, in a matter of months. And so I think this could be the greatest development in American politics in my life. And so I just think it's we're going to fight that battle first. And if we can get that win, it will be such a huge victory. We can hopefully that major victory will inculcate a culture of life throughout the country, and we can deal with these second and third order questions after that.
- [68:19]
Michael Knowles
So I will say also, one of the things that I think is interesting and fun about this podcast is that Michael and I have often very different views. He is much more of a Burkean conservative. I am much more libertarian. He's a Catholic. I'm a Southern Baptist. So as a Southern Baptist, our views on the issue of contraception, we're perfectly fine with it. My view, I respect the Catholic Church's right to set its own rules and standards and to have a view on contraception. And I certainly will defend the religious liberty of practicing Catholics to follow those.
- [68:58]
Ted Cruz
Teachings, unlike the current administration, which sues the Catholics and the nuns and the priests for in any way suggesting that they should follow their own faith.
- [69:08]
Michael Knowles
By the way, I will say, as a Southern Baptist, that there is an old line about. Do you know why it is that Southern Baptists are opposed to premarital sex?
- [69:19]
Ted Cruz
Why is that?
- [69:20]
Michael Knowles
Well, they're afraid it might lead to dancing again.
- [69:23]
Ted Cruz
You got to watch out for that.
- [69:25]
Michael Knowles
But, you know, look, I will say there is actually outside of the theological, you can make your own determin according to your own faith on the question of contraception, but there is an important political and legal distinction which is whether you believe contraception is a good or bad thing. I don't know of anybody arguing it should not be legal.
- [69:47]
Ted Cruz
Not yet. We haven't gotten there yet.
- [69:50]
Michael Knowles
Look, everyone agrees. I remember when I was in college, we literally had condom machines in the restroom for 50 cents. And some of the most fun I had was freshman year when a guy came banging on my door and said, dude, I need 50 cents. Come on, man, I really need 50 cents now. And I said, really? Why? What's going on? I've got a dollar. Will that help? He's like, man, stop screwing with it. Give me 50 cents right now.
- [70:12]
Ted Cruz
This is a slight digression. By the time I got to college, which wasn't all that much later, they were free. They actually, in every dorm, all, they had them for free. But of course, being these kind of nerdy students, it was mostly balloon animals, you know, it was not. We got an email from the administration. They said, we know that you people are not having this much sex.
- [70:33]
Michael Knowles
Quit.
- [70:33]
Ted Cruz
Quit taking all the condoms.
- [70:35]
Michael Knowles
Thank you. Hey, y'all. Michael. Senator. Just want to say roll Tide. First of all, Senator, before you started, they showed you a clip, showed us a clip of you talking about the Russian pipeline and how Russia uses it.
- [71:00]
Audience Member
To keep Europe dependent on Russia for energy.
- [71:03]
Michael Knowles
I was wondering, what are you doing.
- [71:05]
Audience Member
To keep America independent from any other place for energy through clean nuclear power?
- [71:12]
Michael Knowles
So fantastic question when it comes to energy. I think American energy independence, it's a question of national security, but it's also a question of prosperity. If you look at economic prosperity, it follows inexpensive, widely available energy. And that's true in the United States, that's true globally. I think we ought to be pursuing an all of the above approach. I think that means nuclear. We ought to get the unnecessary regulations out of the way to developing nuclear power plants. It is clean, it is affordable, it has no emissions. It also means oil, gas, solar, wind, bio, all of the above. But one of the most indefensible policies we've seen the last year under the Biden administration is we've taken a step back on energy independence. We're right now importing energy from the enemies of America. American production is down, American jobs are down. And if you want to know the reason that your gasoline, that it cost you 100 bucks or 150 bucks to fill your truck, it is because the Biden administration declared a war on American energy production. And this ought to be an issue that brings all of us together as we ought to produce as much energy as possible here to lower the prices. And that also is the best for the environment because American energy is much cleaner here than is energy produced abroad.
- [72:50]
Audience Member
Hello, my name is Jake. I'm someone on the left side of the aisle, but I'm very open minded and willing to entertain conversations with anyone. I have noticed that social media censorship affects progressive users on a similar level with conservatives. And it seems that Twitter has no problem keeping the status quo and censoring people that question authority. Have you ever considered reaching out to populist politicians on the other side of the aisle to try to figure out a common solution about free speech with big tech?
- [73:16]
Michael Knowles
So it's a great question and I will say you're very open minded and with a white sock shirt, I can see that. And as an Astros fan, I'm open minded as well. Look, it ought to be a natural overlap. And so, for example, a couple of years ago, Elizabeth Warren bought ads on Facebook saying break up Facebook. And Facebook being morons, blocked her ads and said we're not going to allow you to run the ads, which was really stupid. And she put out a tweet because Facebook blocked her saying this shows how big tech has too much power that they're able to block my ads. I, I did something I very rarely do.
- [74:07]
Ted Cruz
I retweeted Elizabeth Warren the one and only time.
- [74:12]
Michael Knowles
And in fact, not only that, at the time, Republicans had a majority in the Senate and I chaired multiple hearings on big tech censorship. I asked Elizabeth to come testify. Unfortunately, she declined. And I can tell you from my end, I've tried to reach out to those on the left. Even the self styled populists on the left have not been willing to take on big tech on censorship. And it's, you know, when we have hearings in the Senate on censorship, it's almost like ships passing in the night where many on the right say you censor too much, but many on the left are telling them they don't censor enough. And I mean, we've had hearings basically where Democrats are Yelling at Mark Zuckerberg. Why did you let Trump win in 2016? How could you possibly let anyone speak on that side of the aisle? And I gotta tell you, it is not an accidental shift in Big Tech. There's a document that I discussed in one of these hearings I chaired that Google prepared. It's called the good censorship. And this is a Google PowerPoint. It's about 50 pages. They made it and they described how the old view of the Internet was, and this is using their language, the laissez faire free speech model. In other words, let everyone speak. And then they described how Big Tech had made a conscious decision towards a different model. And here's what they called it, the European style censorship model. And Google identified four companies that made that decision. Google, Facebook, Twitter and YouTube, which Google wholly owns. This is an explicit decision. And by the way, the paroxysms that we're seeing not only from Twitter, but from the media about Elon Musk potentially buying Twitter show this is a conscious decision. It's not an accidental drift. It is we will silence views. So what I would encourage. I will say again what I said to the other young lady who was here. Thank you for coming, particularly if your views are different. Thank you for being part of this conversation. I would love to see people on the left engage and engage in defense of free speech. Right now there are too few. There are almost no elected voices on the left that defend free speech. And we've got to find a way to help. You know, one of the real illustrations of that, you know, who's bizarrely become a conservative, is Bill Maher. Now, Bill Maher is not a conservative, no. But Bill Maher is an old school liberal, which means, among other things, he believes in things like free speech, which in today's upside down world makes an old school liberal seem like a conservative.
- [77:13]
Ted Cruz
Or wrote Rogan is, I think, a great example of what you're talking about. He was too big to totally kick off of the social media platforms, but they did censor his podcasts when those podcasts contradicted the ruling regime. Rogan is a Bernie bro, but because he was threatening the liberal establishment, they really came down pretty hard and they largely succeeded. It's worth remembering that we're not saying that any. At least I'm not saying that absolutely anything should be permissible on these platforms. I don't think snuff videos should be allowed animal torture content. I think that should probably be snuffed out, as it were. I don't think that direct threats should be allowed. I mean, there are limits on these sorts of things because every society has standards and taboos, every society that there's ever been, and certainly including the United States. So what the left has done is they've. They've used an argument sort of for free speech as merely an instrument to upend all of our traditional standards. You have the free speech movement at berkeley in the 60s. All of a sudden now they're censoring the New York Post from reporting on the Biden family corruption weeks before a presidential election. And so I think it is important also for conservatives and just ordinary people to articulate what our standards are, what our norms are, what our taboos are. Because if we don't do that, if we don't have a substantive vision of politics, then the right of free speech in the abstract isn't going to mean anything to people who have nothing to say. And all of a sudden the norms are going to be obscenity is fine, pornography is fine. Threats as long as they're against conservatives are fine. But damaging information about the Bidens that is beyond limits, and those are not standards that we want to live under. So we ought to articulate what we really believe.
- [78:59]
Liz Wheeler
I'd also be curious, and I guess this relates less to members of Congress, although perhaps they should be asked this question too, and more to your PE leftists on college campus. I'd be interested to hear their answer if you ask them, what are you afraid of if you attend a conservative event? What are you afraid of if you hear conservative principles? What are you afraid of if you are part of a dialogue with someone who opposes your viewpoints, whether it's on a practical matter, a policy issue or an ideology, are you afraid that you're going to be disproven? Are you afraid that conservatives might be correct on something? What is the fear? Because what's happened on campuses, and I guess even earlier in high school and elementary school, is kids are just taught not to have these conversations anymore. But I think a lot of them on a personal level would actually enjoy having the conversations, would actually benefit from the conversations, not just by my standards, but even in their own beliefs, yet they're told by someone else that they're not supposed to do that. So I'd be interested in and hearing the answer from your peers of what they're afraid of, just in engaging in those conversations themselves.
- [80:03]
Michael Knowles
Thank you. Good evening. I've got a two part question for y'all. The first part is if you could pass any constitutional amendment, what kind of amendment do you think would do the most good. And the second part is, in your opinion, when would it be appropriate or how bad would it have to get for a convention of the states to pass a constitutional amendment? Well, those are great questions, and they're closely intertwined, I would say. And I'm going to cheat a little bit and say it's a tie between two, which is, number one, a term limits amendment. And I am a strong defender of term limits. I am the author of a term limits amendment that would limit every senator to two terms, limit every House member to three terms. It is amazing, the divide. If you look at it, the overwhelming majority of Americans support term limits. The overwhelming majority of Republicans, the overwhelming majority of independents, even the overwhelming majority of Democrats support term limits. The one group that doesn't support term limits is career politicians in Washington. And that's true on both sides. All the Democrats in the Senate. I can't get a single Democrat in the Senate to support term limits, and I can't get any of the Republicans who've been there a long time to support it. So it is a clear divide. The second amendment that I would also put right side by side with that is a balanced budget amendment. 48 of the 50 states have a balanced budget amendment. I think those two amendments would be the two most important structural amendments for shrinking the power of the federal government on the question of a convention of the state. So the Constitution provides two different ways of amending the Constitution. One, through amendments proposed by Congress ratified by the states. Two, through amendments that come out of a convention of the states called for by the states to propose amendments. In my view, if Congress continues stiff arming the people on term limits and a balanced budget amendment, I think there is more and more growing momentum for a convention of the states. And I think we are likely to either A, see a convention of the states, or B, if it gets very, very close, to finally have Congress blink because they're afraid of a convention of the states and propose those amendments to ratifications. Either one of those would be a better outcome than where we are now.
- [82:38]
Ted Cruz
The amendment that I would pass actually has to do with your job, Senator. I would overturn the 17th amendment. I would pass an amendment to overrule the 17th amendment, which provided for the.
- [82:50]
Michael Knowles
So you want to bring back prohibition? I want.
- [82:52]
Ted Cruz
Yes. I want to bring back. Prohibit. No direct election to vote. I got really nervous.
- [82:57]
Michael Knowles
You were right. I'm just messing.
- [82:58]
Ted Cruz
I thought, oh, no, Did I?
- [83:00]
Michael Knowles
So.
- [83:01]
Ted Cruz
So the 17th amendment provides for the direct election of senators. Probably not going to be a very popular issue to run on to say we don't want the people to directly elect their senators. But I think it's really important because when you got rid of the states electing the senators, the state houses, and instead gave it to the people, you basically destroyed any power that the states had in the national government. It went away. I got to speak to Antonin Scalia as a student. We went up to the Supreme Court and he said states rights completely went out the window with the 17th amendment. And so if you feel that right now we have an increasingly overbearing, autocratic sort of federal government, if you feel that now the traditional structures of America are going away and you feel that we're being governed by Los Angeles and New York and San Francisco and D.C. most of all, then I think it's really important as a structural matter to bring back some role for the state so that my state of Tennessee, Texas, Florida, ordinary states can come in and.
- [84:05]
Michael Knowles
Say, don't forget Alabama.
- [84:06]
Ted Cruz
Oh, are we in Alabama right now? A sensible state like Alabama, I mean, you could name a handful of others really sensible states can go in and say, no Joe Biden, no Washington D.C. no federal bureaucrats, we're not going to put up with that. I think as a structural matter, we've got to do it. And Senator, I would say, don't worry, I think Texas is still going to be sending you to Washington, D.C. so.
- [84:27]
Michael Knowles
And look, I think you make a very good point, Michael. And I would say as an historical matter and theoretical matter, I think what you're saying is very powerful, that the 17th Amendment, it used to be senators were selected by state legislatures. When state legislatures selected senators, it meant that senators came there beholden to those state legislatures, and they were not very eager to take away power from the state legislatures because they're the ones that gave them the job and could take it away from them. When we moved to direct election of senators, it weakened that very important structural limitation on federal power, that very important element of federalism. The reason I haven't focused on repealing the 17th amendment is that we live in the realm of the politically feasible. And as a practical matter, I think it is next to impossible to convince anyone to give up the franchise, that once people have the ability to vote on something, they're not going to likely choose to give up that ability to vote on it. Which is why, as a theoretical matter, you might be right in the abstract. But I think term limits and balance budget are actually achievable and can get done, whereas repealing the 17th amendment, that's never going to happen.
- [85:40]
Ted Cruz
Bit of a pipe dream. Yep. I think you're right. I agree.
- [85:42]
Liz Wheeler
Thank you for your question. This next question will be the last question, so step right up. Hi, what's your name?
- [85:53]
Michael Knowles
Hi, my name is Noah. This question is primarily for you, Mr. Knowles. I think you would agree that the US was founded on Judeo Christian values.
- [86:02]
Ted Cruz
Sure, yeah.
- [86:03]
Michael Knowles
Given at least in my experience that the US especially in younger generations seems to be drifting away from religion, maybe that's they stop practicing, they've become agnostic or even atheist. Do you think it is possible for the US to maintain that set of values without the kind of core base that they were founded on continuing?
- [86:23]
Ted Cruz
You've got to practice what you preach or you're not going to be preaching it for very long. It's not going to last very long. Previously we did have institutions. We had strong families, we had traditions that were able to withstand some wild teenage years and people rebelling against that. The social structure was still pretty sound and sturdy. That has decayed rapidly. And so you've seen a rapid spike in atheism. You've seen a rapid spike in a loss of faith in America's institutions. That's a big problem. Part of it is because the libs want to destroy anything that America once stood for and make America into some merely abstract secular utopia. And unfortunately a lot of conservatives have kind of gone along with it. I think it's important to remember that America is the freest country in the history of the world, Most tolerant country in the history of the world, the most attractive country in the history of the world. We have 3 million people a year at this point coming to this country. Largest movement of human beings in recorded history over the past 60 years have come into the United States. So obviously America is a big, wide open, tolerant place. But there are limits. The Declaration of Independence says, we hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights. If you don't believe that there is a Creator who has endowed us with certain rights, then you're just not in the American idea. You are rejecting the country itself. And so there are limits here. I think of John Locke, John Locke, father of liberalism, one of the most tolerant, liberal minded men in history. In the letter concerning Toleration, John Locke said, we've got to tolerate everybody except for atheists because those guys can't be trusted at all. You have, John. I don't mean just to beat up on the atheists but you have John Milton in the Areopagiticus, the most famous defense of free speech in the English language. And in it, John Milton says we need free speech for everybody except for the atheists and the Catholics. Now, look, I'm glad that we've gotten rid of that latter one, but otherwise I wouldn't be sitting here tonight. But the point that they're both making is that political communities do require limits. We have to agree on certain things. It's become very fashionable since the early 1990s. It's actually a line from former Vice President Dan Quayle to say that diversity is our strength, by which is meant, you know, we don't hate people based on their race or their background, but unity is our strength as well. The idea that we can all come together from various backgrounds and agree on certain things and speak the same language and have shared customs and have real borders and have a community. And so we need to get back to that. We need to get back to an idea that out of many, there is one, there is one country, there is one political community. We have a broadly shared set of values. And we're willing not merely to look at politics as a matter of rights and entitlement, but as a matter of duty and obligation to our fellow citizens and to our country. If we can return to that, even if we're not totally up on the theological points that the Founding Fathers might have believed in, I think that there is a good chance that in practice, we'll be able to recover something like the traditional American way of life. But if we don't practice it, we're sun.
- [89:45]
Michael Knowles
So, and let me add a couple of things to that. I think America was indisputably built on Judeo Christian traditions. I think we're a pluralistic nation, so we welcome people from multiple different faith traditions. But you're right, E pluribus unum means out of many, one, that we came together to be one America. And I will say that those who believe in unlimited power are inherently hostile to faith. You can look at this in totalitarian regimes across the globe. You can look at this in China, where Mao would drive nails into the eyes of Christians. You can look at this in the Soviet Union. I can tell you in Cuba. So my grandmother, my father was born in Cuba, raised in Cuba, but my grandmother was a schoolteacher in Cuba. She was a 6th grade teacher in Cuba. And when Castro took over, a story my grandmother told me is that Castro's soldiers would go to the kindergartens and first grades and tell all the Children there, they'd say, okay, close your eyes and pray to God and ask God for candy. And all the little kids would close their eyes and they'd pray, they'd open their eyes and there was no candy. And then the soldiers would say, okay, do it again, close your eyes and pray to Fidel Castro for candy. And they'd close their eyes and the soldiers would put candy on the desks of every child. And if you believe in the totalitarian state, you don't want anyone to have a loyalty to anything above the state. That means a loyalty to God, that means a loyalty to family, that means a loyalty to anything other than the all powerful government. And so I think, you know, I can say as a parent, all of us make our own faith decisions, but what I urge, my children, is that your life is much richer, your life is much fuller. As a Christian with a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, that, that, that gives you a strength and a comfort and a peace to withstand the travails of day to day. And as our nation becomes more and more irreligious, rejecting faith of any kind, you also see a dissent, a loss of family, a loss of morals, a breakdown of the nuclear family, a breakdown, a loss of fathers. If you look at inner cities and many of the challenges that so many kids are facing, the absence of fathers is a big challenge. And a strong faith tradition helps keep families together, helps keep mothers and fathers together to raise children, helps build strong communities, obviously build strong churches. But it is part of what has made America so extraordinary. And I think one of the reasons the secular left have become almost jihadists about politics, about the environment. For some, the environment is their new religion. For others, it is stopping the evils of Trumpism. But it is with the same zealotry that for a millennia people approached faith, that now the hard left approaches anyone who disagrees.
- [93:35]
Ted Cruz
Well, this is, as the political philosopher Bob Dylan put it, everybody's got to serve somebody. And so man is a religious being. We have these longings. We have an intuition that there's something beyond this world. We have an intuition that there's such a thing as, say, morality. It's better to feed a baby than to kick a puppy. If that's true, then that means there is a good and a bad and an ultimate good. So we have that longing. And either we're going to order that toward God, the true source of goodness, the true source of being, or we're going to order it toward whatever the idol of the day is. And things don't go very well, when you worship idols, it didn't work out very well for other civilizations. And when John Adams. John Adams says the Constitution's built for a moral and religious people, he's not being a Bible thumper, okay? John Adams was far from a Bible thumper, okay? He's observing a political fact. If the country strays from what is good and true and beautiful, then we're going to have a country that is bad and false and wicked. And I don't think anybody wants that.
- [94:35]
Michael Knowles
All right.
- [94:36]
Ted Cruz
Is that our show? So thank you so much for being here. It's such a great pleasure to be breathing the sweet air of freedom, not only because we can take those stupid masks off, but because we're here in Alabama. Thank you so much to everyone.
- [94:49]
Michael Knowles
And, Michael, before we go, I need to say something that is going to get me in trouble with every Longhorn, every Aggie, every resident of the state of Texas, which is roll time, and it's great to be here. God bless you guys.
- [95:19]
Sponsor/Advertiser
This episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz is being brought to you by Jobs, Freedom and Security Pack, a political action committee dedicated to supporting conservative causes, organizations, and candidates across the country. In 2022, jobs, freedom and Security PAC plans to donate to conservative candidates running for Congress and help the Republican Party across the nation.