Ted Cruz (3:17)

So it was. I've never been to a UFC fight fight. It was a blast. Dana White invited me to come, and then the President invited me to join him on Air Force One coming down. So I was part of the President's team that came in. And so I came in with the President, with Elon Musk and Little X. We had also Marco Rubio came, Cash Patel, the director of the FBI came, Bobby Kennedy came, and his wife, and Tulsi Gabbard came. And so we were all on. Air Force One came to the event. And I gotta say, have you ever been to a UFC fight?

Ben Ferguson (3:55)

I actually have, and I think they're just unbelievable.

Ted Cruz (3:58)

Holy cow. Number one, it's in Miami. The stadium was rocking. The energy, I mean, it just shook the floor. And I walked in with President Trump. When the President walked in, there are not words to describe how much the people in that stadium love President Trump. And it just erupted. You know, if he were Mick Jagger riding on Evel Knievel's motorcycle through flaming rings, I'm not sure they would have cheered louder. And it was very cool. We were all seated right ringside, right by the octagon, and it is so close. I mean, it is something else. These guys, these fighters, they are big dudes. Actually, some of them are little dudes, but. But the little dudes are ripped, and they just beat the living crap out of each other. I mean, they are so fast. You know, the first fight we saw, you know, one hard punch literally dropped a guy, and he was basically just knocked out cold because he stepped into a punch. Some of these fights, they get pretty bloody, which was like, wow. I mean, they just beat the living daylights out of each other. But the skill. These fighters are boxers. They're wrestlers. They do jiu jitsu, they do mixed martial arts. And so there's kicking and punching and throws and grappling, and it was incredible. And I got to tell you that the number of fighters that came up to the President and just said, you're my guy, that was powerful as well.

Ben Ferguson (5:43)

This place, as you mentioned, was packed. And one of the things that. As I was watching it on TV and many may have seen some of the tweets that were sent out, the excitement, as you mentioned, for Donald Trump, the chants of USA and Trump, they were very loud. He comes in there and look, this guy understands the moment. Uh, that's one of the. I think one of the best things about Donald Trump, he walks in like he's a prize fighter walking in for a match. Like. Like. And that's how he's treated.

Ted Cruz (6:10)

It is. It absolutely is. Now, I will say one of the strange things is, is, you know, President Trump wears. Wears a suit and tie pretty much everywhere other than the golf course. He wears a suit and tie constantly. So if I were going to a UFC fight, I would never wear a suit and tie like. Like that. That. That is not how I would dress. Sure. And so I'll confess, I kind of debated, all right, what do I wear? And you know what? I figured, all right, if you're hanging with the President, you owe the respect to the office. And so I went ahead and put on a suit and tie and came in, and it was. And look, it was very nice. They introduced me during the course of the fight, and there was a big, loud cheer. I was gratified. Look, I'm. You know, I'd represent Texas, not Florida, but the Miami folks were feeling. Sending some. I love my way. So that made me happy. And it was an amazing time. We were taking lots of pictures. Several of the pictures that I tweeted out were actually taken by Kash Patel, the FBI director, who's a friend of mine.

Ben Ferguson (7:16)

Yeah, good guy. Good friend of mine as well. He's awesome. And by the way, he gets away with not wearing the suit. Did you notice that he was, like, black on black?

Ted Cruz (7:23)

I did give him some grief for that. Now, Cash is a huge UFC fan. He's been to a bunch of the fights, and he follows them closely, and he was. He was just like, no, this is what. This is what I'm going to wear. But so I had him take several of the pictures. Then I turned to him and I said, cash, what kind of moron gives his cell phone to the director of the FBI? And he cracked up laughing. And I said, just to be clear, I'm not waiving any Fourth Amendment privilege on my phone. And he did give it back. He gave it back and he did not search the contents.

Ben Ferguson (7:55)

That's awesome. When you look at this cabinet and I. You were on Air Force One, by the way, down there. And this is your first time on Air Force one in, in 47 this term, his new term. You've been on it obviously before I've been on Air Force One. It's the coolest plane in the world. I don't care what anybody says, it's absolutely unbelievable. But, but what's it like in the mood there, this, this Cabinet? And the reason why I ask is it seems like they are much tighter. They have a genuine affinity for one another and they enjoy each other's company. You can see it when they're in the Cabinet meetings, you can see it when they're on the plane. But you're there with them. I mean, it just seems like there's a different level of mesh, like they're genuine teammates working together, one every day.

Ted Cruz (8:42)

Yeah, I think that's right. I think the Cabinet the second term is much stronger than the Cabinet in the first term. I think the President has been looking for and has appointed change agents, people that are going in to really make a serious difference in the cabinet agencies they've been appointed to. And he's looking for people who are committed to fighting to implement his agenda. And I'll tell you, in the first term he had some people who did that, but he had some of his appointments who actively undermine and fought the White House and did real damage. And so I think, I think there's a much greater consistency of the Cabinet fighting alongside the President rather than fighting against the President in this second term. And you asked what the mood was. Look, on Air Force One, I've been on Air Force One a bunch of times. The mood. The President was, he was in great spirits, he was in great cheer. You know, we flew back at 2 in the morning. I gotta say, the president is 78, he's almost 79 years old and he had complete and total energy. And I gotta tell you, X, who's 4, he turns 5 in May as a 4 year old, he was wide awake and running around at 2 in the morning. And in fact, I asked the President, I said, okay, Mr. President, who has more energy, you or X? And he just kind of laughed, but it was kind of close. They're both at 2:00 in the morning. In fact, the President went to the back of the plane and did an impromptu news conference. The reporters fly in the back of the plane. And he was joking, you know, before he went in he was talking with all of us, said, all right, I'm gonna go talk to the reporters now. And he said, can you imagine Joe Biden doing this? And he said, look, Biden would be asleep by, like, 8pm how could he possibly.

Ben Ferguson (10:25)

Yeah, he wouldn't even bet the fight, let's be honest.

Ted Cruz (10:28)

Yeah. Now, look, if they had a game of shuffleboard, Biden might have made that.

Ben Ferguson (10:34)

That's true. Or, you know, he did like riding the bikes until he fell over. But, you know, there's. There's that as well. I just think it's incredible to see not only the stamina, but also the excitement and the love for life. I feel like there's a genuine happiness around this Trump. I feel like there's a lot of days in 16 to 20 where he was angry and for good reason, and mad and frustrated, and he was going to war with the media. I feel like now he's messing with him a little bit more. And. And he's genuinely loving this time as being present this time. It's a different perspective. Is part of that because the assassination attempt, do you think? And also saying, hey, I'm getting another chance to redo, basically, from 16. I'm better at it this time. I know what I'm up against. I know how bad the government is, the deep state, etc.

Ted Cruz (11:17)

Look, I think he's having fun. I also think, and this is something, actually, he and I talked about quite a bit on Air Force One, which is he's able to accomplish a lot more this term than he would have been if he had served an immediately successive term. If he'd gone back in the White House in 2021, in what would have been a close and bitter and contested election, we would not be accomplishing a fraction of what he's accomplishing now. It really took the four years of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, the absolute train wreck that they made of everything, to make, I think, the American people ready for the Trump administration to implement real and serious change. I also think those four years, the Trump team spent that time really thinking and thinking seriously about what they wanted to accomplish. And so you look at these executive orders they're putting in place that they're rolling out day after day after day. I think if it were an immediately successive term, you would not have seen anywhere near as bold and as effective executive action as we've seen. And Trump emphatically agreed that the fact that he was coming after four years of Biden gave him much more ability to implement significant change. Than if he'd just been serving an immediately consecutive second term.

Ben Ferguson (12:42)

So the question I'm gonna ask, which is the 1 I think 99% of the people listening want me to ask you right now, is. All right, so did you guys talk about tariffs? Did you talk about. Trey? What it. Like, what's the conversation? What were you guys chatting about? When it comes from a policy standpoint, because you look at the different people you were with, it could have gone a lot of different ways. You had Kennedy there. That's totally different than Cash Patel conversation or Tulsi's conversation, maybe. What were you guys talking about?

Ted Cruz (13:09)

Yeah, look, a lot of times the conversations are substantive. I gotta tell you this one. Everyone was excited about going to the ufc, and so it was kind of a happy, jovial mood on the way back. He. His granddaughter Kai was there, and she's a terrific golfer. So he was like, you know, show everyone your golf swing. And so he pulled it, you know, had her pull out a phone and show, you know, she's gonna be playing at University of Miami golf team. And. And so he was. It was. It was a relaxed, joking around, fun environment. Look, there was some discussion of tariffs, but the main discussion of tariffs, and we're gonna get into tariffs right now, was he was talking about all of the law firms that have cut deals with the administration and have signed commitments to give typically $100 million, or in some instances, $125 million of pro bono legal services, free legal services, for issues that matter to the Trump administration. And he was saying, collectively, it's over a billion dollars in legal services. And so he was saying, you know, what should we use that for? And I'll tell you what I suggested. And what he was agreeing is you've got some of the best lawyers in the world. And I was saying, look, we ought to use these guys to help negotiate trade deals. We've got companies all over the world, or countries, rather, all over the world, that are coming and wanting trade deals, wanting to lower their tariffs against US Goods and services, wanting to get President Trump's tariffs lowered against them, and just papering 100 plus deals is incredibly complicated. It takes a lot of serious lawyering. And so having over a billion dollars of free legal services, and I think the President was quite interested and was pretty emphatically agreeing that that is a very good thing to devote a lot of that energy is to negotiating trade deals that benefit America and that that lower tariffs on American goods going abroad.

Ben Ferguson (15:09)

Well, you mentioned that there's a lot of Paperwork? Yeah, there's going to be an awful lot of paperwork because we're now hearing from the White House that they have negotiations that are in essence underway with what was 40 countries early, then it jumped to 70. Now they're saying 130 countries are sitting there ready to have the conversation on tariffs.

Ted Cruz (15:31)

Yeah, that's exactly right. Kevin Hassett, who's the head of the National Economic Council, he was on TV this weekend. Give a listen to what Kevin said.

C (15:40)

Well, what do you say to small business owners or even big business owners who say they're having difficulty making long term business decisions because the country seems right now to be run by capricious whim? Oh, I don't think at all it's run by capricious whim. The way that I would think about it is that in the previous administration, you can sort of say, if you're thinking about it in the football analogy, is that they were running out the clock and that what's going on now in the Trump administration is across a wide array of policy areas. We're in a two minute offense and the two minute offense is pushing, as you've seen the reconciliation bill through, so that we get tax relief for American people, deregulation, and of course, trade policy. Now, on the trade policy, the whole point of the trade policy is to address the, the national emergency that we're too dependent on foreign products in the US Especially if we were at a time of conflict and we're doing something about that. And the reciprocal act was basically, guys, if you come to the table and negotiate us with us and treat us the same way we treat you, then we'll, you know, get your rate really low. And so right now, 130 countries, 130 countries have responded and we're negotiating with them and they've got their rate down to 10%. And so really it's kind of almost a two world system. There's, there's a process about China and that's very, very nascent, if at all. And then the process for everybody else. So the process for everybody else is orderly. It's clear people are coming to town with great, great offers. We've got Japan, Korea, India. I was just talking to the foreign minister of India and everything is moving forward very quickly. And so I guess the bottom line is that the small business owner has experienced over the last few weeks the start of a process that's settling down really quite quickly. Again, 130 countries are at 10% now.

Ben Ferguson (17:29)

130 countries at 10% now. And they're saying they're coming in and they want a deal done, they want to get done quick.

Ted Cruz (17:35)

Well, look, and I think that's notable, that the number of countries are coming in, asking for a deal, negotiating, eager to come to the table. It's up to 130 is what the White House is saying. That is unprecedented. That is remark, and that is a significant victory. That is reason to celebrate. Now, you and I have talked before about how this administration's approach has been an approach kind of borrowed from Silicon Valley of move fast and break things. And so things are moving fast. There's a lot of uncertainty. And I do think it's right that the business world is disconcerted by the uncertainty, that when it comes to investment, if you're going to invest money, and this is true, whether you're a small business or a giant corporation, you need some modicum of certainty to know whether to deploy capital. And so every time the rules change, that makes businesses less likely to deploy capital. And so my hope is that we will see a greater degree of predictability and certainty. Now, you and I have talked in this podcast about how there is a battle waging within the Trump administration that's still very much going on, and it is waging. On the one hand, you have people like Kevin Hassett, you have people like Elon Musk, you have people like Scott Besant who are arguing aggressively, lower tariffs from other countries, use these tariffs as leverage to negotiate extraordinary free trade agreements. And those voices right now, I think there's some momentum behind those voices. Those voices prevailed when last week, President Trump paused the tariffs across the board. As we talked about on this podcast, I spent an hour the night before, along with several other senators, urging the president to do exactly that. And he listened to us and others that were arguing to do that. But there are other voices in the administration that are saying, no, don't lower the tariffs. It doesn't matter if other countries lower their tariffs. Let's keep tariffs in place in perpetuity. And I very much hope that that second group of voices does not prevail, because I think that would be a really harmful economic policy for the country if we end up having massively high tariffs of every country on earth against America and massively high tariffs of in America against every country on earth. I think that'd be really bad for, for Texas farmers and ranchers and businesses and for American farmers and ranchers and businesses. And so I'm encouraged right now that I think the free market side of that argument is prevailing. But. But I would say don't get complacent. This battle is very much going back and forth and it is a live argument.

Ben Ferguson (20:27)

There's also a big separation now that we're seeing in this conversation. And it deals with he's saying, hey, we're dealing with a lot of these countries one way. We're going to deal with China a little bit differently. Then we also had this, this, this announcement come out that there were going to be some exemptions on, on tech items like phones, computers and chips from these tariffs. The commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnick, he went on ABC this Week to try to explain all of this, saying, hey, this is in essence also short term and we will see tariffs come in there. But we're trying to make this work now so that there's not a major disruption or a massive hike in some of these important items. Take a listen to what he had to say on ABC this Week.

D (21:12)

I'm joined now by Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick. Secretary Lutnick, thank you for being with us this morning. I really appreciate your time. So let's start with that news.

E (21:21)

It's my pleasure.

D (21:22)

Let's start with that news. Late Friday, this exemption on electronics, smartphones, laptop computers and the like. What, what's the thinking? Why the exemption?

E (21:31)

Well, if you remember, over the past couple of months, President Trump has called out pharmaceuticals and semiconductors and autos. He called them sector tariffs. And those are not available for negotiation. They are just going to be part of making sure we reassure the core national security items that need to be made in this country. We need to make medicine in this country. We learned it during COVID We need to make it in this country. We need to make semiconductors because if we don't own semiconductors here, remember, all, virtually all semiconductors are made now in Taiwan and they're finished in China. It's important that we reassure them. And so the president is going to come out with his policies on semiconductors and pharmaceuticals. They're going to be outside the reciprocal tariffs. And he was just making sure everyone understood that all of these products are outside the reciprocal tariffs and they are going to have their own separate way of being considered.

D (22:31)

But, but, but wait a minute. I'm asking you about the exemption, not about, I mean, the notice that went out Friday night saying that electronics, a wide range of electronics, including smartphones, including components used to make microchips, that these are now exempt from from the reciprocal tariffs. Why that move?

E (22:54)

Well, remember, those products are going to be part of the semiconductor sectoral tariffs which are coming. So you're going to see this week there'll be a register in the federal registry, there'll be a notice put out that is different types of work. So we're going to do that. We did that in autos. The president's going to do it for pharmaceuticals and he's going to do it for semiconductors. So all those products are going to come under semiconductors and they're going to have a special focus type of tariff to make sure that those products get reassured. We need to have semiconductors, we need to have chips and we need to have flat panels. We need to have these things made in America. We can't be reliant on Southeast Asia for all of the things that operate for us. So what he's doing is he's saying they're exempt from the reciprocal tariffs, but they're included in the semiconductor tariffs, which are coming in probably a month or two. So these are coming soon. You shouldn't think this is really outside of it. Really think of it as being included in the semiconductor space, much like pharmaceuticals, special attention. And the President is on it. So.

D (24:06)

So you're saying that the big tariffs on things like smartphones and laptops, iPhones, all those iPhones built in China, that those tariffs are temporarily off, but they're going to be coming right back on in another form in a month or so or what are you saying?

E (24:25)

Correct? That's right. That's right. Semiconductors and pharmaceuticals will have a tariff model in order to encourage them to reshore to be built in America. We need our medicines and we need semiconductors and our electronics to be built in America. We can't be the holden and rely upon foreign countries for fundamental things that we need. We can't be relying on China for fundamental things that we need. Our medicines and our semiconductors need to be built in America. Donald Trump is on it. He's calling that out. So you should understand these are included in the semiconductor tariffs that are coming and the pharmaceuticals are coming. Those two areas are coming in the next month or two. So this is not like a permanent sort of exemption. He's just clarifying that these are not available to be negotiated away by countries. These are things that are national security that we need to be made in America.

Ben Ferguson (25:23)

You listen to Howard there, you know him obviously, and you hear what he's saying. He's trying to say, hey, we're still moving forward, but we also having to make sure we don't do too much at one time, that can hurt people. And so There's a tough line here. I understand how frustrating this can be as an American, because you may say, well, hold on, it sounds like maybe they're getting a better deal than the little guy is here. Break that down for us.

Ted Cruz (25:49)

Well, it sounds like that because they are. Listen, I like Howard. He's a smart, very effective business leader and he's joined a team that is. That is drinking from a fire hose. So they're trying to do an awful lot all at once. But I have to say the result is the rules are changing, and they're changing very rapidly, which makes it incredibly hard for anyone to know and predict what they're going to be tomorrow. And for them to deploy capital, knowing what the rules are going to be, that's a problem. You need consistency. There's a bigger problem, which is the question that was being asked is the administration announced this week that for smartphones and laptops and electronics, that they were exempt from the tariffs announced, including the tariffs In China, the 145% tariffs. I gotta say that that's a policy. A lot of folks are quite rightly pointing out that that benefits gigantic tech companies that have armies of lobbyists in Washington whose CEOs were arrayed on the stage at Inauguration Day. But it doesn't do a whole lot of good for the little guy. You know, I'm hearing from Texas small businesses that are manufacturing goods and some of the components that go into the goods they're making are coming from China, coming from other countries, and they're facing very significant tariffs and the small business is not getting an exemption. And I gotta say, the argument that, well, yeah, we gave a gigantic gift to Tim Cook and Apple, but don't worry, in the future we'll put some different tariffs on semiconductors, but we're not going to tell you what they are. But they are going to come, and at some point in the future, they'll come. But presumably they're going to be a lot less than 145% on China that everyone else has to pay if they're not in big tech. I mentioned that there is an ongoing battle within the administration. I think this policy is a consequence of that ongoing battle. I'll be clear. I am not a fan at all of sectoral exemptions that essentially benefit. That pick winners and losers. I think, you know, when you talk about the swamp, when Washington decides to say, okay, you're the winner, you're the loser, you're the winner, you're the loser, that is a really dangerous and slippery slope. And if you're going to do it at all, if you want to make an exemption, make an exemption for small businesses, make an exemption for the little guy. If you want to say a small business with revenues below $50 million or $100 million, a small manufacturing business is exempt from paying the tariffs, that might make sense because we're going to see some of those small businesses that are really import dependent potentially go out of business. And if you wanted to make an exemption rather than do it for gigantic companies, I'd do it exactly on the other side and look out for the little guy that is more vulnerable to the immediate vicissitudes of the changes in policies.

Ben Ferguson (29:08)

Yeah. And like you said, they're drinking from a fire hose. This is when it gets complicated, when you're trying to break big things and change things. There are X factors in here and caveats where you say, hold on a second. Is this really what the like, as you put it, the small business owners need? Which is the reason why we have this conversation every day. I want to move to this other big issue also that we mentioned earlier. And it was a massive victory for the Trump administration when it came to an immigration judge doing a major ruling on deporting students that are advocating for the death and destruction of students on campus that, by the way, are Jewish, are advocating their support for terrorist organizations. And this all comes out of Columbia University, where it has become a major point of, all right, who's going to win this? Is the Trump administration going to win this or the radicals on the left going to win? It was a big win for Donald Trump this week.

Ted Cruz (30:04)

Well, it was a win. I don't know that it was a massive victory because it's clearly right under the law. So it was a win that was going to happen. But I'm glad it did. And so listen, one of the things that President Trump is doing that is exactly right is the Trump administration is deporting those who engage in anti Israel, anti American protests, who are foreign students, who are on student visas, who are non American citizens. You don't have an entitlement to be here. And look, we talked about during the Biden administration, when these viciously anti Israel, anti Semitic protests were going on, that the Biden administration could do something about it, but they didn't want to because Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and Chuck Schumer, they agree with the pro Hamas protesters, they agree with the radicals. And so you didn't see the Department of Justice investigating them. You didn't see them following the Money. You didn't see them trying to do anything really, to protect the Jewish students on campus who were being targeted for harassment and threats of violence. Well, you and I, in fact, one of the very first pods we did in the new administration is we interviewed Pam Bondi at cpac, and in that podcast with then Attorney General Bondi, right after she got confirmed, she made clear then they're gonna go after these radicals. And I will say, immigration law gives considerable flexibility to the administration to decide who that is here on a permissive visa can be sent home. And so in this case, you had Mahmoud Khalil, who was a Colombia anti Israel protester, who the administration is in the process of deporting, and he is challenging that in court. And an immigration judge ruled that he can be deported due to his involvement in last year's pro Hamas protest at Colombia. And this is a judge, Judge Jamie Comins rather. And he said the government had met its burden of proof. I think that's clearly right. And the Department of Homeland Security laid out how Khalil misrepresented himself on his green card application. And in particular, he was not upfront about his involvement with organizations he's involved with. He willfully failed to disclose his employment with the Syrian office in the British Embassy in Beirut when he applied for permanent US Residency. And what the federal government argued is that made him inadmissible at the time he was given his green card because of, quote, fraud or willful misrepresentation of material fact. He also failed to disclose his work for unwra. And, you know, UNRWA we've talked about before is. Is the UN Agency that. That has literally been in bed with Hamas. You had multiple Hamas terrorists working at unwra. UNWA has given significant material aid to Hamas terrorists. And. And the court ruled that that, look, that that is. Is ample grounds to deport. To deport him. I think that ruling is clearly right. And if you looked at Khalil, you looked at his writings, this is someone who is viciously anti Israel and anti American. And in fact, he's using the deportation to just rail against America and what a hostile environment it is. And in fact, Khalil's argument, here's something he wrote. He wrote an op ed in Colombia, you know, attacking, how dare you deport me. And he says something. He accuses the Columbia administrators of manufacturing, quote, public hysteria about antisemitism without once mentioning the tens of thousands of Palestinians murdered under bombs made of your dollars. So understand, this guy's complaint is that the Columbia Administrators stood too strongly against anti Semitism. They let their entire campus get taken over. They let Jewish students be terrorized. They let campus buildings be taken over. They were weak and ineffective, which is why the president of Columbia had to step down. And yet this guy's claim is, nope, nope. They were too strong against anti Semitism. They should have been effectively marching alongside me in favor of Hamas. This ruling is clearly right. I'm glad it came down. There are going to be more rulings like this if you are here.

Ben Ferguson (34:54)

So this will have precedent, right? Like this is going to now.

Ted Cruz (34:57)

No, it won't. This is a ruling of an immigration judge in this case. So it doesn't resolve the issue across the country. But the immigration law is quite clear that, look, Khalil's case was harder because he was a legal permanent resident. He has a green card. And legal. Permanent residents have greater legal protections than just somebody under student visa. Somebody under a student visa, they can have their visa revoked and sent back. It is not a high threshold to do that. To revoke a green card is a higher threshold. And so the ruling here is, well, the Department of Homeland Security gave evidence that he had lied when getting his green card, and that was basis for deportation. And so that. I think that's the right ruling here. It's a good ruling. And I think you're going to see. Listen, let me say to any anti American radicals who've come in on student visas, you are not welcome in America. And if you are going to use our hospitality to attack and threaten and harass fellow students, if you're going to use our hospitality to attack America, get the hell out. And. And we're going to help you get the hell out. And that is one of the best things the Trump administration is doing right now.

Ben Ferguson (36:15)

Yeah. Amen to that. Don't forget, we do the show on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. We have a week in review on Saturdays of things you may have missed during the week. So make sure you hit that subscriber auto download button. Share this podcast on your social media, wherever you are, because it helps us reach more people and get the news out of what we're talking about. And the Senator and I will see you back here on Wednesday morning.