Wild & Woolly Speaker Drama - The 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson

Summary

The 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson: Episode Summary – "Wild & Woolly Speaker Drama"

Release Date: January 4, 2023
Host: Ben Ferguson
Guest: Senator Ted Cruz
Duration: Approximately 29 minutes

Introduction

In the January 4, 2023 episode of The 47 Morning Update, host Ben Ferguson engages in a comprehensive discussion with Senator Ted Cruz regarding the unprecedented turmoil within the House of Representatives over the Speaker of the House election. The episode delves into the multi-ballot struggle to elect Kevin McCarthy, the historical significance of the event, internal Republican conflicts, media perceptions, and broader implications for the Republican Party.

Unprecedented Speaker Vote Drama

Ben Ferguson opens the conversation by highlighting the chaotic scenario in Washington, where "20 House Republicans have voted for someone other than Kevin McCarthy." This turmoil comes after multiple votes failed to secure McCarthy the necessary 218 votes to clinch the Speakership, leading to the suspension of proceedings until noon the following day.

Senator Ted Cruz underscores the gravity of the situation, noting, "It's the first time in 100 years that the House speaker vote went to multiple ballots." He elaborates on the context, explaining that none of the three rounds of balloting achieved the required majority, signaling deep divisions within the House Republican caucus.

Historical Context and Comparisons

Ferguson draws parallels between the current House scenario and historical precedents, questioning the potential long-term implications of such political standoffs. He mentions concerns from both Democrats and Republicans about setting a precarious precedent where leadership battles could become personal rather than issue-focused, potentially leading to future gridlocks.

Cruz responds by comparing the House dynamics to those in the Senate, highlighting the structural differences that contribute to the current chaos. He recalls his own experience with leadership battles in the Senate, emphasizing the rarity and significance of such conflicts within the realm of Republican leadership.

Senate vs. House Republican Dynamics

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the contrasting behaviors and structures of the Senate and the House Republican bodies. Senator Cruz explains, "The Senate Republican leader is elected only by Republicans," allowing leaders like Mitch McConnell to maintain control more effectively. In contrast, the House Speaker must secure a majority among all House members, not just Republicans, making consensus more challenging with a narrow Republican majority.

He further elaborates on the fragility of the current Republican majority in the House, which stands at a mere four votes. This slim margin exacerbates internal divisions, as members have increased incentives to prioritize individual agendas over collective goals.

Key Players and Internal Conflicts

The episode delves into the roles of influential House Republicans like Andy Biggs, Jim Jordan, and Chip Roy. Cruz recounts the progression of the Speaker votes:

First Ballot: Andy Biggs garnered 19 votes against McCarthy.
Second Ballot: Jim Jordan received 19 votes, despite his initial support for McCarthy.
Third Ballot: Chip Roy passionately advocated for Jim Jordan, who then secured 20 votes, including a pivotal flip from Byron Donalds.

Chip Roy’s impassioned speech is highlighted, where he advocates for transparency and procedural debates within the House, challenging the existing norms and pushing for meaningful legislative discourse. His remarks resonate beyond partisan lines, suggesting a broader call for accountability and debate within Congress.

Media Portrayal and Public Perception

Ferguson addresses the media's characterization of the Republican turmoil as chaotic and compares it to the perceived irrationality of the Democratic side, referencing headlines that depict Democrats as the true "crazies." Cruz vehemently disagrees with this portrayal, labeling the media as "left wing propagandists" intent on undermining Republican unity and accountability.

He contrasts the current Republican struggles with the Democrats' unified stance over the past years, attributing Democratic cohesion to their willingness to embrace more radical agendas without internal dissent.

Leadership, Strategy, and Future Implications

Senator Cruz offers insights into the strategic missteps that may have led to the current predicament, such as Republican leadership's failure to present a unified front or clear policy contrasts during the elections. He emphasizes the importance of internal debates on leadership and strategy, highlighting the need for Republicans to articulate and stand firm on key issues to avoid future electoral disappointments.

The discussion touches upon the potential influence of former President Donald Trump, who has a personal relationship with Kevin McCarthy. Cruz notes Trump's supportive remarks towards McCarthy, which could sway the dynamics depending on Trump's stance in the critical hours following the episode.

Procedural Changes and Future Outcomes

The conversation explores the procedural aspects, such as the motion to vacate, which allows any individual member to challenge the Speaker, potentially destabilizing the Speakership further. Cruz explains that instituting such motions could provide necessary checks on leadership but remains uncertain about McCarthy's willingness to concede to these procedural reforms.

Possible outcomes discussed include negotiated concessions to secure McCarthy's Speaker election, increased support for alternative candidates like Jim Jordan, or the emergence of a third candidate. Cruz also speculates on the unlikely but possible scenario of a Democrat Speaker being elected amidst Republican disarray, though he deems it improbable.

Recent Senate Developments and COVID-19 Protocols

In an unexpected turn, Cruz brings attention to recent events in the Senate where new senators were mandated to present negative COVID-19 test results to attend swearing-in ceremonies with their families. He criticizes Vice President Kamala Harris for enforcing these protocols, portraying them as obstructive and disrespectful to the traditions of the Senate. This move has reportedly caused friction between new Republican senators and the Democratic leadership, further straining bipartisan relations.

Conclusion and Looking Forward

As the episode wraps up, Ben Ferguson and Senator Cruz reflect on the unpredictability of the ongoing Speaker election and express anticipation for upcoming developments. Cruz reiterates his confidence in the Republican negotiation efforts and emphasizes the importance of maintaining conservative principles amidst internal challenges.

Ferguson assures listeners that The 47 Morning Update will continue to provide timely updates on the Speaker vote and other critical political events, encouraging subscribers to stay informed as the situation unfolds.

Notable Quotes

Senator Ted Cruz [00:36]: "It's the first time in 100 years that the House speaker vote went to multiple ballots."
Chip Roy [11:15]: "This is not personal. It's not. This is about the future of the country. This is about the direction of the country."
Senator Ted Cruz [22:47]: "The media are left wing propagandists. They hate having a debate about Republicans leading, about Republicans being conservative."
Senator Ted Cruz [27:10]: "Kamala is literally saying, I'm not going to do my damn job."

Final Thoughts

This episode of The 47 Morning Update offers an in-depth analysis of the unprecedented challenges facing the House Republicans in electing a Speaker. With insights from Senator Ted Cruz, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the historical context, internal dynamics, media implications, and potential future outcomes of this political drama. As the situation remains fluid, the episode serves as a crucial resource for staying informed on the developments shaping America's legislative landscape.

Transcript

Ben Ferguson (0:00)

Welcome. It is Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz. Ben Ferguson with you. Senator, what a way to go back to Washington to bring people up to date on what's happened. 20 House Republicans have voted for someone other than Kevin McCarthy. There were multiple votes that were held. They've decided to basically end it until noon on Wednesday. Some people said, well, that's just because there's a lot of family members in town. I think the world was spinning for Kevin McCarthy. You're there in Washington. I think everybody in politics is surprised by how this played out so far.

Senator Ted Cruz (0:36)

Well, it's a big deal what's happening. It's the first time in 100 years that the House speaker vote went to multiple ballots. And right now the House is in recess until noon on Wednesday and noon on Wednesday. We'll find out what happens next. There were three rounds of balloting, and on each of the three, Nobody had the 218 votes needed to win the speakership. And so this battle, this battle is waging. You and I are recording this on Tuesday evening after the House is adjourned, but before they've gathered in the morning. I am confident there are multiple furious conversations ongoing right now all across Washington. Conversations between Kevin McCarthy and his allies, conversations between the rebels who are opposing McCarthy, and they're likely are negotiations going on right now. But we won't know, at least until tomorrow what happens. And it's not going to be dull.

Ben Ferguson (1:47)

Yeah, it's not going to be dull. Let's talk about the history of this. There are people, and this is even on the Democrat side, that say, hey, we don't like this type of precedent because then what you could end up happening in the future is when you have tight elections like we just had in November. If, if certain people in either side of the aisle refused to kind of, you know, coalesce behind their team, then you could always be holding good people hostage. That's how this is kind of played out on tv. There have been, others have said this has just become too personal with three or four or five different members of Congress and Kevin McCarthy where it really isn't about the country. It's more of a personal issue. I think this is a, is a very unique moment where you see 20 people say, all right, maybe we go with a Jim Jordan. We've heard people talk about Steve Scalise. Does that really change anything? And if you're a member of Congress right now, especially a new member of Congress, how confused are you by all of this on your first day?

Senator Ted Cruz (2:49)

Well, let me say several things. First of all, I'm staying out of the speaker fight in the House. I've got plenty of fights over on the other side of the Capitol in the Senate. We are in the middle of big, big battles in the Senate. And so I am watching with considerable interest, but not engaging in the middle of their leadership fight. That being said, I'll make several observations. Number one, a big part of the reason this is playing out is because the election was disappointing. The election. We did a lot less Republicans did a lot less in the election than we should have. We should have a majority in the Senate, we should have a big majority in the House. If we'd come out of the election and it was a 30, 35 vote Republican majority in the House, I doubt this fight would be playing out at that level. I think Kevin McCarthy would have had pretty easily the votes to be elected Speaker. And if you win a big victory, that is typically the result. What is driving this is it was instead a very frustrating election where we didn't win a majority in the Senate. In fact, we lost a seat in the Senate, which is beyond infuriating. And in the House, the Republicans have a majority, so that's good. But it's the narrowest majority imaginable. It is a four vote majority. Now, I'll say for any speaker, being speaker of a House with a four vote majority is an absolute mess. Because you're right, when you have a tiny majority, all sorts of groups of members are incentivized to hold out for what they want. And that's true from conservatives, from moderates, from liberals across the spectrum. I think it's also more true on the Republican side. On the Democrat side, Nancy Pelosi had a very small majority. But the Democrats are command and control. The Democrats are authoritarian. The Democrats follow orders. It's a strength of theirs and it's a weakness of theirs. On the Republican side, a strength and weakness we have as Republicans is we're a bunch of individualists. We're all over the map. That's true in the Senate and it's true in the House. And so what's playing out here and significant part is playing out because the majority is so narrow and what it led to. Look, you and I, Ben, have talked on this podcast about the leadership battles in the Senate. And I led the fight in the leadership battles of the Senate to reevaluate what our leadership was doing. And in particular, I was the one that made the motion to delay leadership elections until after the Georgia runoff. To delay them and to have A real debate about how Republicans should lead. And I ended up getting 11 votes that. Well, getting 16 votes in favor of delaying the election. And then ultimately there. There were 11 votes cast either against Mitch McConnell or. Or one senator who we don't know who voted present. That was a big deal. We needed 25 to have delayed the elections. We got within 9 of that happening. That's the first leadership battle in the Senate we've had in the decade I've served in the Senate. Every other time Mitch McConnell's been elected by acclamation. The same forces that drove that leadership battle in the Senate are driving the leadership battle in the House. But why is the result playing out differently? And there's a very important structural difference between the Senate and the House, which is why you're getting a lot more drama on the House side. In the Senate, the Senate Republican leader is elected only by Republicans. In other words, it was the vote of what was then 50 of us. And so Mitch, to remain Senate Republican leader, had had to win 26 of those 50. He had those votes pretty solidly in his pocket. In the House last month, the House Republicans got together, and Kevin McCarthy won a sizable majority of House Republicans. But the way the House operates is different, because the very first thing after the new members are sworn in that happens in the House is you have, what we're seeing right now, a vote on the floor of the House to elect the Speaker. And it's not just a vote of Republicans. If this was a vote of only Republicans, Kevin McCarthy would have won handily like he did last month. This is a vote of every House member. And to be speaker, you need a majority of the members who are present in voting. So there are 435 members of the House. One. One member, a Democratic member, passed away. So there are only 434 members right now. That means you need 218. What happened on the first ballot? Andy Biggs from Arizona, conservative, good friend of mine. Andy ran against Kevin McCarthy, and it ended up that there were 19 votes cast against Kevin McCarthy. Mind you, five was sufficient. He could only lose four. Well, the second ballot, instead of Andy Biggs being the lead opposition player, it was Jim Jordan. And this time, there were 19 votes for Jim Jordan. Now, there is some irony in this, and that Jim Jordan is, at least at present, vocally supporting Kevin McCarthy to be speaker.