← The 500 with Josh Adam Meyers
The 500 with Josh Adam Meyers
118 - Kanye West - Late Registration - Sam Jay
01:19:38
Comedian Sam Jay joins the show for a deep and unfiltered conversation about Kanye West’s Late Registration, breaking down its orchestral ambition, political fire, vulnerable family moments, and the cultural forces that made it one of hip-hop’s most pivotal sophomore albums.
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The 500 the 500J been walking us down through that 2012 edition so it ain't nothing to you. Hundreds more to go and in need of a friend. The King of peaceful angelo talking the 500 until the end talking the 500 until the end with my man J on the 500 talking the 500 until the end.
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B
Now I ain't saying she a gold digger but she ain't messing with no broke broke. Now I ain't saying she a gold digger but she ain't messing with no broke bro. Get down girl go ahead get down get down girl go ahead get down.
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A
She take my money. I can't believe I can do that. That is Gold Digger. It's by Kanye or Yee or Yeezy, whatever you want to call them. This is 2005 biggest hit off of late registration. It's also number 118 out of 500 on the five honey. The fab honey. Remember when people get mad when I called it that? Well, guess what? My name is Josh Adam Myers and I am a comedian leading you through Rolling Stone magazine's list of the 500 greatest albums from five Hun Honey down to one. We are chipping away. We're at 118 guys. We are in the thick. I'm gearing up to do the final 50 episodes all in person. So enjoy the streamyard while you can, party, people, because the only way you're going to catch this is on the YouTube. YouTube.com backslash the 500 podcast. Patreon.com Come on, subscribe, guys. We need your love. There's a lot of great people that work on the show. Patreon.com backslash the 500 podcast. You get merch for 25 bucks a month. For Five Doll, you get to ask questions. March 20th and the 21st, I'll be at the Plano Mic Drop Comedy Club. April 7th through the 11th, I will be at Rumors in Winnipeg, one of my favorite comedy clubs in the world. April 18th through the 20th, I think I'm gonna be at the Moon Tower Comedy Festival doing the jam, doing shimmy, doing a whole bunch of great stuff. And April 23rd, big show, hook Theater, Atlantic City at Caesar's palace. One night only. Josh Adam Myers and friends. I'm bringing special guests. I've got a ban. Going to be a party, so if you are in New Jersey, I need everybody to come out. April 23rd, Atlantic City, the Hook Theater. Tickets@josh adam myers.com let's party, people. At Josh Adam Myers. On all social media, it is the way, the only way to live fun, free and enjoying yourself is by being a Josh Adam Myers. So today's album is, like I said, late registration. And this is the sound of a man who has dropped out of college, got rich, hired a full orchestra and said, you know what this needs? More ego. This is Kanye west at peak. I told you so. He's already proven he could rap on the College Dropout, but now he is back with strings choirs, John Brion from Fiona Apple World. Confidence of a guy who just realized he's the smartest person in every room and he wants all of you to know it. This is the album where Kanye turns insecurity into grandeur. It's luxury rap with anxiety. It's orchestral hip hop made by a dude who still feels like he doesn't belong but also wants to redesign the building. And joining me today is the one and only Sam Jay, One of the sharpest, coolest, most effortlessly intimidating comedians in the world. Sam has the same vibe Kanye has here. Calm delivery, surgical confidence in the ability to to say something uncomfortable so smoothly that you're laughing before you realize you've been indicted. And what's great about this record, it's ambition. It's ego. It's feeling underestimated and talking your way into rooms you weren't invited. So welcome to therapy, everybody. If you don't know who Sam J. Is, you've been living under a rock. She has the HBO special Salute me or shoot me. She had her series pause both on HBO bust down hilarious show three in the morning. I mean, she has been a writer for snl. She and I just came back from the workaholics cruise. She's one of the coolest people I know and what an honor for her to fill in on the fly and to be one of my favorite guests. Rave review and most importantly, subscribe to the 500 listen fee on all platforms. Follow me at Josh Adam Myers. Follow the podcast at the 500 podcast. Email the podcast@500podcastmail.com. Follow the Facebook group. And for all things 500, go to the website the 500podcast.com. All right, y', all, call 118. Kanye west, late registration. Dig it. You're in Atlanta, so I don't know if you're dealing with the same weather problems we're dealing with here, which is like sleet and snow right now.
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B
Oh, no, no, I'm not.
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A
How is Atlanta? I wish I was there.
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B
It's fine.
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A
I wish I was at Mary Max Tea Room, just eating some of that meatloaf. Yeah. When did you move there?
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B
A while ago.
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A
Good for you, dude. Get out of this town. Get out of it, dude. Even though this is the greatest city in the world. But Atlanta. Atlanta, dude, I'll tell you this, and I mean this sincerely, is like, there is something about Atlanta that. That is so near and dear to my heart that, like, for a place I barely spent any time, like, I have fallen so deeply in love with it. Whether it's the food, the people, even, even Magic City, it might be the greatest strip club with the greatest strip club merch. It's the only strip club merch that motherfuckers will wear and rep. It's solid merch, dude. I should have put it on. Right now I have the hoodie and I have a T shirt.
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B
Yeah, it's good merch. It's good merch. It's a hoodie's good. It's got an extra little pocket inside the front pocket that you could put stuff in.
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A
Yes. I love that you know that. I love that you know that. Yeah. For. For a person that worked in strip clubs, when it was like when anytime the business was doing bad and people were like, all right, we gotta sa the club. What are we going to do? Corporate always wanted us to sell T shirts, and I was like, nobody wants to wear that. Nobody wants evidence.
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B
What's your, like a white lady strip club?
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A
White and black, it was. And, and all races. So the first place was a white lady strip club. The second one was in downtown LA at a place called Dames and Games that tried to compete with Sam's Hofbrau, which if you knew about Sam, Sam's was like, it was like the magic city of downtown la. So like Floyd Mayweather would go there, he'd throw cash. All the NBA players would go there, they throw cash. And then Spearmint Rhino tried to like,
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B
I've been to Spearmint Rhino.
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A
Yeah. So they tried to do a competitive one and that was the one I worked at. And that was where I found out about like Spearmint Rhino in Vegas. Yes. Well, that was the only. The event of Vegas is like a goddamn Costco. The one in the one in downtown la, Dames and Games was like a sports bar where people would drink, throw cash.
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B
People, The Spearman Rhino people own that?
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A
Yes. Got their hand in. Dude, they're, they're, they're the meta of strip clubs. They've got their hand in everything.
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B
I like that for them.
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're doing fine. They know what they're doing. They're shitty company and I'll stand by that. But, but I'll say this, and I will say this to see if I can bring it back to what we're talking about in the record is like working at Games and Games. There was this girl, Lisa, that was like marginally attractive. She wasn't a bad looking girl whatsoever. But she had this customer that was an older guy, country dude, I think slightly racist too, but he loved Lisa, who I think was white, Asian, and he would throw money at her and I mean a lot. But I had to specifically play Gold Digger every single time. And this wasn't when the song had come out. So this is like, I mean, fuck, dude, 2004, 14.
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B
Okay.
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A
And so, and so when I listen to that song now, I can't not
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B
think of that money for an hour. You would have to play Gold Digger for an hour.
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A
He would throw me money, he would give me a hundred bucks and he would be like, I put Lisa up. And I mean it would be. Sometimes it'd be dead, sometimes it'd be packed. And he would just put Lisa up and he would drink all day. And anytime I put her up, I had to put that song on. And it wouldn't. It would. Which, which, you know, to each his own. I Mean, I'm not mad at. Yeah, I'm not mad at it. Way, way past the prime. And I mean, if. If you are basically throwing money at someone that is only around you because in a sense, you're tipping her and you're giving her the money, I mean, it is on the nose.
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B
I mean, he understood. He understood the song.
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A
He understood the song. But I can't not. I can't not think of it that way when I hear it even now, many, many, many years later. And. And so, yeah, I mean, normally I wouldn't have opened up with that. Talking about, like, the strip club in the world and that, because I don't think I would ever associate Kanye west music really with the strip club scene. I think Kanye. In a good starting place to. To talk about is Kanye is right there in that transition. Transition between older hip hop and then the direction of where we are eventually going to go. Which is where when I was working the strip club, hip hop eventually started turning to, like, Migos future, you know, which is now like Playboi Carti and. And so on and so forth down the line. So, I mean, you don't like. Like, when I say this word, you tell me what you think, and because I read a lot about this day. What do you. When I. You. When I say the term backpack rap, what do you think of?
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B
I thought you were gonna say. I was like, oh, that's crazy. I was like, wow, Josh got the Tourette's too?
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A
Yeah, dude. I was with Godfrey and Yamanika last night. I was like, what would been more racist if the guy would have said the N word in that situation? Or he just started, like, singing random lyrics to, like, an OJ Song. He was like, they smiling in your face. Oh, girl, they're gonna get your place.
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B
I think we would have liked that.
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A
It's like, everybody loves the Sunshine.
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B
That would have been like, oh, he gets the culture and he loves it. You know what I mean?
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A
I think it's more racist. I was like, he says, is he singing Rex and Effects right now? Like, that's. Yeah, if he wouldn't do that. If Catherine o' Hara was up there. When I say. When I say backpack rap, what. What do you think of when I say that?
- [12:21]
B
I guess, like, I mean, even Drake kind of started as a backpack rapper, you know, like, a little bit. People would say, very backpack rap influenced. You know what I'm saying? Or had backpack rap vibes. I'm talking like early, early, early mixtape Drake, you know, of course you would say, like, Talib, you gonna say Mo's. Who is my man? Charles Hamilton.
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A
Charles Hamilton. Why do I. I'm thinking of Anthony Hamilton, but I don't know Charles Hamilton. Who's Charles? Was that. Is that. Is that the real name for.
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B
I'm part of that whole wave of, like, okay, player.
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A
The rootsy. Yeah, this. The soul. Soul collective, the Erykah Badu, the comedy, like, Little Brother.
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B
And, like, when all those dudes were kind of blowing up off of those, like, sites and stuff, I guess I'll put Little Brother there, too. I guess it spins all the way back to Tribe. I guess you could call Tribe Called Quest backpack rap, you know, Black Sheep. I feel like. I feel like it's a little weird because they were kind of also just their own rap. Like, I feel like then it was like, there was gangsta rap, and then there was just rap, and then backpack rap became something. In my opinion. I was 182, you know, so it was like when Tribe and all that stuff was first happening, I'm hearing it through my older brothers, and it's like, that was rap. And then gangster rap came, and there was this battle between them and the gangster rappers for a little while, you know what I'm saying? Like, you had that intro on the Black Sheep joint where he's making fun of Ice Cube, and then he's like, oh, and it's a bad dream. He's rapping like a gangster rapper. He's like, woke up, didn't choke up, saw my ak, it was broke up. And he wakes up and he's like, oh, my God, I dreamed that I was hard, you know, Like, I dreamed that I was gangster. And so for me, it's like, now we call those guys backpack rappers, but I feel like at some point it was just rappers, you know?
- [14:10]
A
Yes. I didn't know you were born in 82. I love that. Because then this makes even more sense of, like, you get to walk like me, where it's like, you remember the oldest of the oldest hip hop, which, you know, And I'm talking like, you know, listen, everybody, like that kind of. And then you've seen the complete evolution of the music, you know, as you've grown up with it, which is, you know, Rakim, and you mentioned Tribe, and you mentioned NWA and Snoop Dogg and the gangster, and. And. And I think where Kanye comes in. In what would be what the first record was 02, you know, and there was a. There was a. I don't want to call it. It was just such an odd period. For hip hop, for when he became a thing. Because I just remember, dude, it's Nelly and chingy and you know, you have like 50 Eminem who comes in there and just complet white America. You know what I mean? More than Wuang ever did because Wuang swept the white. The white kids. Because we were like, oh man, this is like dope and this is different and this feels like blah, blah, blah. And then Eminem comes in and then you have him introducing 50 cent with G Unit because they're still huge in the. In the mid. Early to mid 2000s. You have the birth. The birth and I would say the. The acceptance of Lil Wayne becoming one of the top MCs in the world. You have Trap Star. Yeah. Oh, Cameron. You have Trap starting. Yes. You have Cameron Dipset. You have. You have the Game Drop in the documentary. You have T.I. and young Jeezy like shaping trap of what will basically be. You know that. And then you also still have like common with. With basically doing a Kanye west produced album B and. And on the top of the pop.
- [16:03]
B
That's like, that's like way later.
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A
Yeah, yeah, but, but this is all like. But this is. What I'm saying is like. And then, dude, in. In 2005, when this shit came out and I'm trying to go back to O2, but it's like, I mean, oh, when this came out, when the first record came out in O2, I would say it is, you know, Janet Jackson and creed and, and NSync. And so Kanye, I wouldn't say he fit into that. Like, what was that like? Like, because, I mean, obviously, I'm assuming everybody fucked with Jay Z. We all fucked with Jay Z hard, not life. You know, he hadn't done some of his. He did some of his best music, but still, like, hasn't really. You know, he doesn't know the Black Album yet. He hasn't. You know, he still. I don't think he's even linked up with Beyonce.
- [16:50]
B
There was also all these like, little moments where, you know, Kanye got to splash and let, you know he could rap prior to. You know what I'm saying? So you have like, you had that Kanye. Kanye was on that Dame Dash, We Are the Champions joint. He was the last one to rap. So you kind of like, like anything Roc a fella was doing was buzzing. I do, I do think we have to. To put that in perspective. If rock was touching it, if Rockefeller was touching it, if Jay Z was touching it, it was buzzing, period. So there was already a Buzz around Kanye as, like, there's this producer coming out of the Roc, a fella that can rap. You know what I'm saying? And it was already like, we already was on Kanye for the beats. So he had an introduction before he had an introduction. And I think that also helped the type of music he was ushering in because we had a familiarity with his production and the type of beats he was making, and it was very much aligned, you know what I'm saying?
- [17:46]
A
Yeah, he fought really hard. Everything I read and you see in any documentaries that he really wanted to be, he didn't just want to be a producer. He was trying to fight and fight and fight. Hence why through the Wire is such an important song for him. Because it's like. Because I remember hearing that, and I was like, why is everybody. This song's fine. I was like, yeah. It's like that. It's got that Tribe Called Quest, old school type sampley stuff. I do like his rhyme style, and I get the idea that the guy broke his jaw in a car accident and he's trying to push through it and rap, but I was like, that wasn't what made me a Kanye fan off that record. I think it was probably Jesus Walks, where I was like, holy. Like, this is like this. I remember driving back from the Eagles versus the England. The New England Patriots, when the Patriots beat them in 05 06, from Philly back down to Baltimore. My buddy Evan was playing that first record, and that was the record. I was like, that was the first time. I was like, oh, all right. Like, I get this. This is different.
- [18:42]
B
I remember my homie played it for me in Atlanta. I was living in Atlanta at the time. I was. I was here going to school, and my homie was like, yo, just do. Kanye got a whole song. He just rapping about Jesus. And I was like, let me hear it. You know what I'm saying? Like, what's this about to sound like? And then I was like, oh, no,
- [18:59]
A
this is hard, hard, hard. It's. It's probably. Yeah, it's probably one of the only few, like, spiritual songs that also is like. Like, I mean, it just. I've seen it used in, like, trailers for, like, the movie Jarhead or Jawhead, The. The Sam Mendez, like, Iraq war movie. And they used it perfectly. I've seen it in, like, ads for, you know, commercials. Just like the. The. The.
- [19:25]
B
We were primed for Kanye. Like, I'm a big Kanye West.
- [19:28]
A
Yeah, take me there. How did, like. And was it immediate, too, or was
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B
it, like, culturally, we were primed for Kanye. Like, okay, it was, you know, you have this. This group of. Of black kids that are going to school, are currently in college, right? Everything is gangster or, like, ex drug dealers talking about how they used to sell drugs. We didn't really have no Tribe Called Quest type nigga at that moment. We didn't really have. We just didn't have it. We just didn't have anybody that was kind of filling that void of, like, a person who just, like, wants to go to school and mess around with girls or hang out with guys, you know, whatever you're into, sell your little bit of drugs. Like, he was just speaking to that struggle. That wasn't like, yo, I'm not out here trying to be a drug kingpin. But, yeah, I've sold some weed. And I also worked part time at the Gap, and I may have done a little of this or that, so I could buy a cool, like, little Honda Accord or a nice techno marine watch, but I'm pretty much just a good kid with some dreams trying to make something happen. And there was just no one talking to that in our generation. And I think that was a large part of our generation. And I say that because I. College Dropout comes out when I'm in college. Like, I am the audience at this time when this album is coming out. I am a Kanye. Like, I'm Kanye's target audience. You know what I'm saying? And we were all eating it up. I mean, College Dropout had the HBCU fraternity step song in, was just speaking to everything we were experiencing and feeling. You know what I mean? Like, he just really hit the pulse.
- [21:16]
A
Yeah, it was immediately. I, I, you know, because I listened to that. We did this on. We did College Dropout a while ago, and I think that might be. I mean, I'm not gonna say it's my favorite Kanye record, but it's definitely in my top three. And I think it is, because it's. It's. It's. Like, we talked about backpack rap, but it's backpack rap with pop ambition. It's. It's chipmunk soul samples. It's. It's. It's a rapper. Finally, you're talking about that. That there's no Tribe Called Quest in the early 2000s. And you got this guy that's talking about insecurity, he's talking about faith, he's talking about for fucking. He's talking about working retail. You know what I mean?
- [21:55]
B
Yeah, that spaceship joint. It's like, that was touching all of our soul. You know, it's like that's what most of us. Most of us are not driving around with six keys in our truck. Most of us are at a store making a little money, buying a little weed, hanging out. It was like. It was that tribe shit. It was just like really speaking to what was like going on in a way that was just so perfectly timed.
- [22:21]
A
Yeah. I mean, in this and this. That record is.
- [22:24]
B
And respected the culture. Like, it was such on par with like, culturally, like everything that was kind of going on. Like, because he grew up on the same we always growing up on. So the references and like using a comedian to. To carry those, like, skits through the album. And you know what I'm saying? Like, all of that was just super fire.
- [22:47]
A
I mean, moving. He's like, I love that you said the culture too. Because it. At that point, it's like he's moving it forward and not just in a way of like, you know, of. Of music, but attitude and like, positivity. And it's like he's still talking about. I mean, christ, dude. In 2005, when this record comes out, you know, is he has one of his first big. You know, which we're going to get to. I'm going to talk. I want to talk about all the. The levels of him, which is. He has one of his first big moments with the. The Hurricane Katrina. George Bush doesn't care about black people. And it felt like, you know, not. It's like. It's just. It didn't feel like he was hurting or he's like, like, parents wouldn't look at a con if they saw their kid listening to a Kanye west record. Like a young black, you know, like, you know, family. They wouldn't be like, oh, turn this off. This is bad for you. They would probably be like, no, you could do this. This is good for you. This guy, you know, he's worked his ass off. He came from nothing. He loves his mama. You know, he's a genius. And he's. And he's changing. And then also he's standing up for the little guy, you know, with. With the Hurricane Katrina thing.
- [23:58]
B
And. Yeah.
- [23:59]
A
And so I think there was just nobody. I mean, nobody. I mean, NWA Public Enemy, but in a much far aggressive way and in your face way, this felt like one that. That not only could black America listen to. Yes. Oh, dude, dude, I love that you said that.
- [24:18]
B
It was fly. It was like. That's what made it so much like in tune with the culture we grew up with. Because we grew up on that fly shit. We grew up on Jay Z. We grew up on wanting to buy dope shit. That's why when he would talk about the conflict of, like, we also grew up with a consciousness. You know, we're. We're. We're a generation. I grew up on Spike Lee. We're the generation where there was still a very high level of black consciousness within how we were being raised in a way that we don't even see today. You know what I'm saying? We were very aware of the Black Panthers and what they had done. We were very aware of Assada. We were very aware of all the. And stuff. It was in our music. It was being pushed to us through our media. It was being pushed to us through the things that we were being told to read by rappers and stuff like that. And so he's coming with that consciousness, but he's also coming with that Jay Z, because we grew up in that, too, and just wanting to be fly and wanting to have the dopest shit. And so that's what made him this perfect marriage, because it felt like the public enemies and. And all those other dudes. It was like, yo, I gotta. I gotta wear Africa stuff every day, and I gotta put on a. Like, an African and wear a wooden chain or like, I'm not with the shits. And it was like Kanye was like, nma be the flyers. Most conscious, most dopest, most illest. And it was like, yeah, that's. That's something. That's. That's cool.
- [25:29]
A
Yeah, he. And he's making. He's making, like, Ralph Lauren polo shirts, like, pink with the double collars. You know what I mean? Like, and it's. And it's always funny. Like, a brother would do it first, and. And then. And it takes off, and then eventually it makes his way down to fratty white kids. They're doing the same.
- [25:47]
B
But also, you say, a brother will do it first.
- [25:50]
A
I mean, a brother does it first, and then. Dude. And then eventually it makes its way down. And then white people take it. Even.
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B
Even white people, dude, we gotta give white people a word that they could call black people when they want to, like, so that they don't have to sound corny. But, like, they don't. Because you don't want to be, like, a black guy does it first because you're not that lame.
- [26:10]
A
Yeah.
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B
So you're like, all right, I'm cool. But then it's like, anytime I hear a white guy say brother, I'm like,
- [26:17]
A
I'm I'm trying to use terminology like
- [26:19]
B
it's 1972, but we also haven't given you, like, a new word.
- [26:24]
A
No, you haven't. This, yo, this cool breeze. I don't know. I want to be like, yo, this out of sight. That's all I wanted. That's all I want to do is talk like that. I just want to talk like that. And. And. But this is the God's honest truth is, is we were talking about that last night. I was like, even barbecue. Like, white black people create something, and then white people take it. What's happening with Unk in the Tenderness? He got fired from Destination. Smokehouse. Yeah.
- [26:55]
B
Ronald Isley's house.
- [26:57]
A
Good. No, I did not see the continuing story, but I'm about to donate to that dude's GoPro.
- [27:01]
B
Hanging out with Ronald Isley. He was doing the tenderism for him at his house.
- [27:05]
A
I love it, dude.
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B
I like it.
- [27:07]
A
I love that. Dude, I was going to drive out to fucking Temecula, wherever the fuck that was, but I'm like, dude, I've been
- [27:11]
B
deep diving on him and punch for the last two days. That's been my world.
- [27:16]
A
I love what I said to you, re. Listen to this record. You're like, dude, come on, dude, I've listened to this. I mean, this is like. This is like talking about.
- [27:25]
B
It's in a white man's nature to give assignments. Y' all don't know how to not give assignments.
- [27:30]
A
What? But this is a great assignment to re. Listen to. Arguably, Kanye's. This is. I mean, because, dude, this is like.
- [27:36]
B
But I'm a full teacher.
- [27:38]
A
Oh, this is. This is my. This is my. My. What is it? My full. Full Nelson. What is Half Nelson? This is my, like, Ryan Gosling fucking, like. Like, I stayed up all night trying to prepare the perfect, like, testament about this. And. And it's really not hard talking about old Kanye, dude. It really.
- [27:58]
B
It's Especially Late Registration. It's just a beautifully made album. It's sonically so beautiful.
- [28:06]
A
Do you put this in. In your. In your favorite Kanye west records? Is this in your, like, top five? If you had to pick a top five, or would you. Would you put. What do you think is Kanye's best record?
- [28:16]
B
I would probably put Late Registration over College Dropout, to be honest with you.
- [28:20]
A
Interesting.
- [28:21]
B
Yeah. Like, I love College Dropout before the nostalgia of it. When I play it, I love it, and I will. I will. The. The last track is, like, something I'll just play when I just need to. To feel like Motivated again or just to remember what. Why the fuck I'm doing what I'm doing because it's such a great telling of how it all happened. But I listen to Late Registration way more. It's just like. It's just a great album to listen to.
- [28:52]
A
Interesting. I. I mean, look, I'm not gonna. I. I've. This was. I listened to this back then. I listened to this. Now I have. I have a way different opinion on this one now, especially after going through some of the other records. I don't know if this is my favorite Kanye record, but I think this might be my favorite Kanye. Do you know what I mean? As a human being and as a person, I feel like this is him because it's. He's right, dude. He basically, with this record, proves that the first record isn't a fluke. He. He wins the Grammy. He cements himself as an auteur. He collaborates with John. I think it's Brian the guy.
- [29:28]
B
Yeah, Brian on Keys right now.
- [29:30]
A
You know what I'm saying? He's cinematic. It's everything. It's. His ego has gotten far bigger. It's. You know, it's like this is Kanye basically upgrading from the dorm room producer to be like, you know, why is there a full symphony in the booth? I mean, he's. He's just really strong in his choice of samples and his lyrics.
- [29:50]
B
Also the style of song, like, this is when he starts to. This is when he starts to show you, like, you can't pin me into a. A style, right? You take College Dropout. We're talking backpack rap. That is a backpack rap. It's like we get in the boom to the bats in this thing, and he's just showing us, like, lyrically, like, I can hang with these dudes, like, production wise, you already know what I do. But you get into Late Registration, you got the last track. Late I'll be late for that. That's such a different vibe in the sound. Then you have that big sound on crack music and we major, and then you have that just kind of off the beaten path. Why is everything that makes me feel bad make me feel so Supposed to be bad make me feel so good. Everything they told me not to is exactly what I would. That song's just weird and it just kind of goes wherever it goes in this way that it's like. Sounds so different than anything else you're hearing in music, period, at that time. And so he's already kind of showing you, like, that. That to me, Late Registration is Like, that flag in the ground of, like, I'm not. Like, none of these niggas.
- [31:03]
A
Do you put. Do you put this record? Like, if you had to rank everything by cultural impact for his records in particular, where do you put this one? Because I think. I think. I think you put 808s and heartbreak, because I think that's when he changed. He changed all the hip hop we're listening to now with that record. I'm not saying. I'm not discrediting anything before 808s and heartbreak, but there is no Drake. There's no. There's no melodic future.
- [31:34]
B
There's no Juice World 808. This is when he starting to peek out and let you know, like, I'm capable of something like 808.
- [31:42]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's something. Yeah. Because then the next record is Graduation, which is where he's really getting experimental and he's really starting to blend all the fucking. I mean, who. Who would do that? Like, not just use a Daft Punk song, but I mean, like, he was like. He was making. Dude. I remember being at one of that
- [32:00]
B
punk song with the. With the Akira reference video, just like, oh, yeah, I'm going crazy.
- [32:07]
A
I. I remember remember being. There's an open mic in. In Hollywood called Bliss Cafe. It was on vine and Sunset. It was on the early open mics that we used to do, me and Jarrod, all us. And I'll never forget just a bunch of the black comics just sitting around talking about Kanye and why they loved him. And this is 0809, so, you know, 808's come out, graduations come out. We're waiting on a beautiful, dark, twisted fantasy for sure that hasn't happened. Is. Yeah, which. Which I think is probably is. That's like his, like, Abby Road. That's like his Pink Floyd Dark side of the Moon. But beautiful, beautiful album. But they were just. They were talking about Kanye in a way that I had never heard people talk about other rappers or people. It was just like, about just how cool he was. Even. Even though, like, even in the. Even in the. The Gold Diggers music video with. I think he's got the. He's got, like, the lines in his hair. He's wearing the black shirt, and he's just doing these, like, moves. And it. It really. Like I said, it was that bridge between the old raps, the 2000s rap. Yeah. And it was just. They. They.
- [33:14]
B
They didn't even touch the sky video. The Evil Knievel reference stuff that he was doing. In touch the sky, you know, with Lupe.
- [33:23]
A
Yes. Basically giving Rip. Lupe. Where is he? Is he still alive? I know he is.
- [33:30]
B
We got Rip and Lupe.
- [33:32]
A
I know he's not dead, but is this.
- [33:34]
B
He's still here. Active Lupe, Certified samurai. You ain't gonna have Lupe after me, like, straight up is a samurai, so you might want to take that back.
- [33:45]
A
We can. We can. We can. I'm sorry. But, you know, I was thinking. I was thinking of Bob.
- [33:50]
B
Oh, damn
- [33:53]
A
to white people. That's the same dude. Beautiful girls.
- [33:58]
B
Crazy.
- [34:00]
A
The idea of. Of Lupe and being able to steal. And I think, like, having not steal, but having Kanye basically give him a song on the record to fucking just completely almost outshine him. It just felt like he was. He had the ego back then, but he was still.
- [34:20]
B
Oh, he surrounded himself with, like, the dopest people. I mean, even Cy High, the Prince on graduation. Like, the bar work was crazy.
- [34:32]
A
And so my question then, is this also the beginning? Because now we're calling him a genius. Looking over this record, and if you really want to break it down, we usually could go track by track. I mean, I don't think we need to, because I don't think every song on this record is as important as the first. There's, like, five songs.
- [34:49]
B
I was looking at the track list. I would say the songs are. The intro's hard. I just like the intro.
- [34:56]
A
Who's your Bernie Mac, though? Like, I wanted to ask you, like, if. Who would be the person. You know, like, who's the voice in your life that pushed you out of the door even when you didn't feel ready? Who would be your. Like, who would be opening up the Sam J record?
- [35:08]
B
You know, that's. That's D Ray Davis, though.
- [35:11]
A
You know that? Really?
- [35:12]
B
Yeah. Both times there's been D Ray doing a Bernie Mac version.
- [35:19]
A
Wait, no. Oh, that was D Ray on the record. I thought it was D Ray. Was your Bernie Mac.
- [35:23]
B
No, no. This D Ray on a record.
- [35:25]
A
No, really. Wait, you're right. You aren't you. You. I think you are right. I think I do know that. God damn it. Who's your D?
- [35:33]
B
Right?
- [35:34]
A
It is D Ray. I used to.
- [35:37]
B
What is it?
- [35:38]
A
What is it? Late registration. Let me double check this mat. That's hilarious. Not fucking know that. I should have had that right in front of me.
- [35:45]
B
Is D Ray on College Drop out and is D Ray on this?
- [35:48]
A
But who would be. Who would be gassing you up at the beginning? Who would be the. Your D Ray Slash Fucking. Yep, you're right. D Ray Davis. Good God, dude. Chicago boy. Yep, Chicago dude. That makes sense. That checks out. That math checks out. Who would be your D Ray then? Pumping you up.
- [36:06]
B
Just getting me hype on that on my album. Freddie Gibbs.
- [36:11]
A
Really? Did you. Have you known him for a while or, like. Because I know, like, he's just been in the comedy world as well. Like, did you know him before?
- [36:19]
B
A while. And I wouldn't want to. I wouldn't want to. A comic to do it. That's no fun. Like, the fun of, like. Like when comedy comedians bring rappers on their album. That's the fun. I mean, rappers bring comedians on their album like this. So I wouldn't want a comedian at the top of my.
- [36:34]
A
Yeah, that's not good.
- [36:36]
B
And Freddie gives us, like, a good talker. He gonna just say. He just gonna say the shit that's gonna go get you feeling like it's ready to go.
- [36:44]
A
Who would. Who would I want pumping me up on the beginning of my record? I think it would be Michael J. Fox.
- [36:56]
B
Be smooth too. Like, it's gonna be like, he gonna let you know I'm the coldest and, like, I'm that and I'm this and I'm him. But it's not gonna be like, everybody, because that's not me. I'm like a smooth kind of vibe, you know?
- [37:08]
A
No, I get that. I completely get that. That's crazy. That really. What a great impersonation to Bernie Mac. Good guy.
- [37:15]
B
That's you up, huh?
- [37:16]
A
That is me up a little bit. But I should have known that. That's the funny thing is that I. I knew. I've heard that before, Sam, and. And for some reason, I just didn't have it in front of me, you know? But going from that. The wake up, Mr. West into. Heard him say the opposite of everything Kanye has made in, like, years, but just. It's so different than anything he's putting out. And I'm. It makes. It's just. It's just such a drive slow. It's just such a easily digestible song. And he's talking about consumerism. He's talking about his own insecurity. He's finally getting the pop crossover success. The. The nothing ever is promised tomorrow, today. I mean, it's.
- [38:01]
B
The Brandy joint was crazy.
- [38:03]
A
Oh, well, think about this. Adam Levine. He makes adam Levine from Maroon 5. He makes Lupe Fiasco, you know, blow up and have. It basically gives him a whole career. Jamie Foxx with Gold Digger, which is the massive, massive. You know, success of. Of that song. The. He's got Common. He's got Paul Wall. Roses. Yeah. Bring Me down, the Brandy song.
- [38:29]
B
Yeah. I mean, Brandy on Bringing down, which has one of my. My favorite lines of Kanye's. One that sticks in my head. They'll always be haters. That's the way it is. Hater, Marry hater and have hater kids.
- [38:42]
A
Oh, yeah. What about Diamonds from Sierra Leone?
- [38:47]
B
Wasn't really my favorite song on album, though. Everyone was like, hype over it because Jay was on it. And I like it. It's fire. But I'll skip it when I listen to the album. I ain't gonna. I'd rather hear We Major. I'd rather hear the joint with Nas. I know that's not. I'm a Jay Z fan. No, I'd rather We Major over Diamonds. I go. I slip Diamonds and I go straight to We Major.
- [39:07]
A
Diamonds from Sierra Leone I liked a lot back, you know, back in the day. Not so much this go round. I agree with you on the We Major. I think. I think that feels much more like a real Kanye song, you know, where it's like, it's. It's. He's almost got, you know, one. It's seven minutes long, so it's one of his longer songs. And it's also got, you know, the Nas feature is symbolic where. And it sounds like very much like almost like victory lap energy.
- [39:35]
B
Yeah, but I like that Diamonds from Sierra Leone. I like how him and Jay are rapping on it. Like, of course I like Back and Forth because it's a very different back and forth than the back and forth that's on College Dropout with two words. You know what I'm saying? That back and forth. Like, this is a little bit more. It's like feel like a little bit of a preview or a precursor to Watch the Throne, the way they was flowing on this one. You know what I'm saying?
- [39:57]
A
And. And Diamonds. Yeah.
- [39:59]
B
And duo albums that ever be made.
- [40:02]
A
I also think, though, this is. This is probably. Diamonds from Sierra Leone are probably him and Jay's, like, most sharp lyrical performances on the whole record. I think Diamonds from Sierra Leon feels the most dated. It feels like the Most stuck in 2005, where everything else still kind of feels like it's got its footprint in the future and in the past, and it's just. It just. But if I listen to diamond from Sierra Leone, I'm like, oh, this is it. It literally pinpoints me. I'm like. I'm thinking about the Iraq War. You know what I mean? Like, I'm like. I'm like, all right, this is like Facebook is still just in colleges and iPad ipods are still popular. Like, that's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It really does. When it comes to the sequencing on this record, it's. There are great songs. I just think it's all very like top loaded at the beginning. I think the majority of. I mean, all the big hits, everything that's really popular from this record are right at the beginning of it. It's not, it's not a bad thing, but it's just. I don't know, I'm not. I'm not putting this record down by saying that at all. But it's like if I had to choose, gone if. Dude, if I had to choose between listening to College Dropout this or Graduation, I would put the first three records where. I think those are all kind of. I mean, Graduation tends to have its foot more in the future than the other previous two. But it's like, I think this would be the last one that I would pick in that order. I think I would do College Dropout first, then graduation, then this one.
- [41:37]
B
I think that I'm going, oh, okay. I would play Late Registration, graduation, and then college, like kind of. Yeah, that's the way I would go. So I like, I like Graduation, but there's something about the, the flow in the, in the, in the. And the production on Late Registration that just, like I said, I could just play it. It's a vibe.
- [42:06]
A
If you're a guitarist or just someone who loves adventurous music, this is one you don't want to miss. This August Music Masters collective in the Catskill mountains for the 9th Annual Alternative Guitar Summit Camp, happening Monday, August 17 through Friday, August 21, 2026 at the beautiful Full Moon Resort in Big India, New York. Just two and a half hours from New York City, this is four unforgettable days of music, nature and community. Featuring an incredible lineup of artists including Kurt Rosenwinkle, Mateo Mancuso, Guillermo Elad Hexelman, Ben Motter, Oznoi, Cecil Alexander, Anthony P. Rog, Khaki King and Joel Harrison. Whether you want to deep dive into technique, songwriting and improvisation, or just soak up the inspiration, this camp's for you. Expect hands on workshops, open forums, one of a kind performances, collaborative sessions, nature walks, and those late night jams that turn into lifelong memories. From tent camping to private cabins. And scholarships are available to help make it accessible. Spots are extremely limited, so don't wait. Head to www.Alternativeguitarsummitcamp.com the500 to learn more and register. Come for the music, stay for the connection. Leave inspired. Hey everybody. So you guys have probably heard me talk about how I've been in bands my whole life. I love writing songs and performing in front of crowds. Just like with comedy. As a musician, it can be kind of hard to cut through the noise and really stand out as an artist. I feel like half the music projects I've been in have ended just because we couldn't figure out the answer to that eternal question of how do we get people to hear us? But then again, that was before there was Distrokid. Distrokid is a digital music distribution service that brings your sound to to the masses. It's a one stop shop for getting your songs on itunes, Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube Music, Amazon, Deezer, Tidal, and many more. What's Deezer? I never even heard of Deezer. How many of them are there? I know all that. That's like the holy grail of streaming services though. And getting paid. They want to. We want to get you paid for your music. That's huge because a lot of bands go broke before they get big. But Distrokid collects earnings and payments and sends 100% of these earnings to artists minus banking fees, fees and applicable taxes. And that's just one of the tons of benefits of using Distrokid. You can send big files to anyone with their instant share feature. You can use the Hyper Follow feature to promote your release and get pre saves on your song. You can even create personal landing pages for yourself, your band, your brand, and whatever you like. It has a free Spotify Canvas generator too to generate your own Spotify Spotify Canvas for your songs. And the Mixia feature instantly masters your tracks for higher quality audio. So if you're ready to bring your band to the next level, it's time to check out Distrokid. The Distrokid app is now available on iOS and Android. Go to the app or Play Store to download it. Listeners of this show can get 30 off their first first year by going to distrokid.com VIP the 500. That's distrokid.com VIP the500 for 30% off your first year. Dig it. It's sonically produced perfectly. It's. This is a perfect. This is a perfect sounding record like on every level. And this. And this is. This is what I wanted to take in now because this is the interesting. I want you.
- [45:55]
B
There's a lot I could pull out at graduation. I'm looking at it right now.
- [45:58]
A
I'm like, dude, flashing lights in itself is such a great beat and such a great vibe. Everything about flashing lights is a little
- [46:07]
B
bit all over the place. It is like. Like late registration has a vibe to it completely. Right. Graduation, it's like we going a little bit everywhere. Like, I like stronger, but then I Wonder's on there. And I Wonder really feels more like an 808 song.
- [46:22]
A
Yes.
- [46:22]
B
You know what I'm saying?
- [46:23]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [46:24]
B
It's kind of like Dennis Can't Tell Me Nothing. Then Barry Bonds, which kind of like. Then Drunken Heart Girls, then flashing like, it's like. It's a little bit. Graduation is a little bit all over the place.
- [46:36]
A
Graduation's a big deal for him too, because it also marks the shift from soulful Kanye to like stadium Kanye. Now you're going to get him. He's not playing clubs anymore. He's playing like the stage is cool. Like, we're not at the Pablo stage yet, where it's like hanging and people are underneath.
- [46:53]
B
Conflicted, though.
- [46:55]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [46:56]
B
Oh. But also he's doing conflicted album because even Big Brother is a conflicted ass song. He ends with Big Brother, which is like a love song to Jay, kinda. It's like. It's a lot of like telling a story, you know, of him and Jay meeting. My big brother was Big's brother. He's giving Jay props. But then when you listen to the lyrics, it's a lot of like, you didn't really think. You didn't respect me. Yeah, he was up to me. But I. I guess she was that way because you, my big brother, you had it. You felt like you had to do that. So it's such a. This album, I would say, is conflicted and you feel the conflict by track.
- [47:37]
A
It's. Yeah, I said it's insecurity with a string section. It is. It is. It is, dude. That's what I think. That's why people love about Kanye West. And we're going to get into in a moment is. Is that he is real. Whether it is mental health imbalances, or it's just him speaking out of ego or it's him just really believing this shit, you know, and the things that he says. There is something. Until he went fully full, like, which I think recently is, you know, it's. You say what you want. It's kind of like moments of like, oh, man, did he fuck. It's like you're like, please just do. Just shut the fuck up.
- [48:14]
B
If we could forgive nigga Tourette's.
- [48:16]
A
All right, all right. Okay.
- [48:18]
B
Then we could forgive Kanye west for being bipolar and off his mates.
- [48:23]
A
Okay, now this is what I wanted to get to. Because one thing I love about you, Sam, and is with everything that you've done and your standup and your specials and your TV show, you. You have an opinion. You're not.
- [48:34]
B
Not.
- [48:34]
A
I'm not making you. What I'm about to ask you is you're not going to be speaking for all the black community, but if out of anybody to do the Kanye records, because who we had, we've had Neil Brennan. I think I had Cipher. I forget. Maybe it's somebody else. But this. We haven't done a Kanye record since it all. I don't want to say crumbled because it didn't crumble, because at the drop of a hat. And that's the thing, is that. Okay, so here, let's start here. You know, how do I. How do I start this? Okay. I'm trying to think about. To do this right? Because it's like, I don't. Okay, all right.
- [49:08]
B
What you're saying. I think I get what you. I get. I think I get where you're going.
- [49:12]
A
I want to. I have it written down. All right, here we go. Here we go. Here we go.
- [49:15]
B
Because Kanye. Kanye can always drop some fire.
- [49:19]
A
So if you look. Yeah, so you're 100, right? So if we. I want, like I said, list all of the things that Kanye west has done that people might call crazy, and are they defensible? And is it him just being in his ego and being right, or is it crazy? Is it the mental health?
- [49:39]
B
And, I mean, I have. I have.
- [49:42]
A
Okay, so let's start here. We mentioned one earlier, and this is right around 2005, when this record comes out. So George Bush doesn't care about black people, which he says at the Hurricane Katrina telethon. All right. Does it on live tv. Does it right next to Mike Myers. Austin Powers is just stone cold, like, the. Scared out of him. It's completely unscripted. It's a. It's a hot take. It's a jump scare, you know, where do you. Where do you like that? That. I don't find anything wrong with that. I feel like.
- [50:14]
B
You watch the video, too. He's shaking. Like he's scared to say it, but he feels like it has to be said. Like, if you watch the clip, he. He's physically shaking. Like, you can see the nerves because he's like Am I really about to do this? But I feel like he just felt like, I can't stand here and be a black man watching this. This is like Kanye at his peak. Consciousness and togetherness. You know what I'm saying? So I. Nothing wrong with that.
- [50:40]
A
Okay, so there's that.
- [50:43]
B
What I think happened is like a lot of like, I think he does have. He said it, so I'm not saying anything offensive. He said he's bipolar and he had to find out all about that and regulate himself when he just recently did this apology. I think that a lot of things happen with tragedies and things with him, and he started to self medicate and not use the right type of medications and also dealing with pain and running from that and dealing with all this different stuff. And it became a conflict in his mind that he was not in control of any longer.
- [51:19]
A
Sure, we. I've seen it and I think you've seen it too, up close and personal. We have friends that have, have had bipolar episodes. One of them, you know, right in front of us, how did you run a goddamn manifesto? And then Tara, bang, put it out. And you're like, you want to be like, what are you doing? And it's just like in their head, they're like, no, this is right. So do you think he's already having the, that breakdown? He's already kind of going through that. When he does in 2009, when he does the Taylor Swift at the VMAs, where do you think that is? Where do you think that is? On? Is that defensible? Is it? Can you, can you defend that?
- [51:53]
B
Yes, because one, he was right. But two, they, they saw the man walk in with a gallon of Hennessy, bro. He had a gallon of Hennessy on the red carpet before the thing started. The gallon, the big handle joint. So he drinking it. You know what I'm saying? Mother just died. Yeah, right. His mother.
- [52:14]
A
I, I. Hey, Alex, check that math. I don't know when Donda died. I think I may so I can pull it up. What's her name? Donda West. I'm assuming when she died in 07. Yeah. So this is. Damn. Was it 07? What the hell, dude, that's crazy. Yeah, I didn't even think about that. So, yeah, so that's two years prior. But, but going up there, I mean, that's. Dude, that was.
- [52:34]
B
He's drinking Henny straight out the bottle. The whole night, bro.
- [52:38]
A
Okay.
- [52:39]
B
The whole night, bro. He's Kanye. And at this point, like, his ego, ego wise, he's full. Kanye. He with a bad. He would. He would. One of the. The, like, baddest in the game right now. At least. Like, that's what everyone's saying right at that point. Amber Rose is, like, top high commodity.
- [52:55]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [52:56]
B
Drunk off the hen. He's sitting there. He done been to this party before he done one. This ain't nothing new to him. He drunk. He got mama dead stuff going on. He fighting that off with the ego of, like, I'm the illest, and I'm gonna be this, and I'm gonna be that. So he's trying to bury all the pain of mama dead with just, I'm the illest. He watch it. And he, like, drunk off the hand. Like, man, it's some. That's what happened. Yeah.
- [53:22]
A
I'm not saying. Look, I'm not saying he's right or wrong. You know, it's. I think that's the equivalent. That's a nicer version of. Of Will Smith smacking Chris Rock. Like, he could have done it after the show. Kanye could have gone in an interview after the show and done it.
- [53:41]
B
But the. Him.
- [53:43]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. I get that. The. The alcohol, for sure. All right, okay, that's another one. When he. When he says, In 2018, I'm gonna skip ahead a little bit. When he says slavery was a choice, and he says 400 years of slavery sounds like a choice. And the backlash. Where is that now? This is 2018. Where is that in the craziness of Kanye? Is that defensible?
- [54:04]
B
He just doesn't sometimes. Like. And I've heard Jordan. Jordan Rock say this, because I always. Even when I have some ideas, I don't be, like, in a, like, Jack style. But I really do believe this, and I thought this myself. It's like, Kanye is only supposed to speak through music.
- [54:18]
A
Yes.
- [54:19]
B
Like, when he just be talking, sometimes it's like, bro, just don't just be talking, because I do. And it's gonna sound crazy to say, especially to you, but I do to some degree understand what he was trying to say, which is, like, at some point, people just allowed themselves to be subjugated because mentally, they just didn't think there was any other options. But someone had to make the choice to stop it. Like, it all comes down to choices. Like, in order for it to stop, some slaves had to be like, yo, I'm out of here. Some slaves chose not to be out of here. You know what I'm saying?
- [54:58]
A
Some are Nat Turner. Some were fucking Samuel Jackson in
- [55:03]
B
right in that movie.
- [55:04]
A
Yeah.
- [55:04]
B
If you don't expound on what you're saying and you just say it like that, then it sounds like, well, you're blaming people for, you know, a systematic breakdown of their humanity and them not feeling powerful in a situation which is not very, you know, logical to do. But I do get what he's trying to say at a base way. And I also get what he's trying to say to black people today, which is, like, to some degree, we can't live there. You know what I'm saying? And, like, I think he was trying to say, be empowering by saying it, but he. He be listening to the wrong people sometimes give the message, I think. And I feel like he's a nigga that half ass reads seats. And then he, like, I get it. And he closed the book.
- [55:51]
A
And he cliff notes it. Yeah, yeah, he cliff notes. Or he hears somebody else say it and then he processing his doodads and he spits it out. Yeah. Okay, so going off of that then. And this is. This is a lighter one. What about, like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna merge these two because I feel like they might be the same time. When in. When he says, I am God in 2023, 2013. I'm sorry. Instead, what most people would be, most rappers are like, yo, I'm the goat. He's like, I'm God. It's literally a song title. And then I'm gonna combine that, with which I actually don't think it was so bad.
- [56:23]
B
He says, I am a God.
- [56:24]
A
I am a God. True. You're 100. You're right. No, you're right. You're right. I am a God. Yeah, I read that wrong. But I'm. I'm lumping this in also with. With the. The Sunday service stuff. Where do you put the Sunday service? Where do you put, like, the. The Jesus is King stuff? Is that. I mean, because, I mean, there's nothing wrong.
- [56:42]
B
I love Jesus. He's a Christian.
- [56:45]
A
Is that still. But is that. Is that cool? Like, to be a Christian, to be, like, super religious? It's like, that's like the. We used to make fun of, like, of. Of like Creed and DC Talk. And you don't. You don't. Okay, I'm just. I'm just. I'm asking. I'm coming with you.
- [57:00]
B
Black people love Jesus, bro.
- [57:02]
A
All right, that's period. I love that, and I love that for black people. And I love. I think that's a great quality. But then. Okay, okay, Going off of that Pablo
- [57:17]
B
is a gospel album.
- [57:19]
A
I see. This is. This is. Now we're getting to where I start feeling like he starts going where he's crazy because A Life of Pablo, dude, he releases a record like Religion Sam. All right. The equivalent of you writing your hour special, putting it out, letting it sit there for a week, and then you telling hbo, oh, I'm pulling it. I gotta rework five jokes on this dope. You. You agree with that?
- [57:44]
B
I agree with. Okay, it was fire, and it was a fire album. Papa's in my top five.
- [57:51]
A
Really?
- [57:51]
B
I love Pablo. And it's a gospel album. On top of that, he, like, snuck in a gospel album. If you really listen.
- [58:01]
A
I gotta re. Listen to Pablo. All right, so from coming from a guy that loves Jesus and love Christians, then how do you feel about his beef with. Threatening to kill Pete Davidson? You know, his beef with Drake, Jay Z, even. Even one of his.
- [58:14]
B
He didn't. He didn't want no, man. Our boy Pete there was Tom McLean moaning his wife. He said it. He didn't want that in his home around his children.
- [58:27]
A
I respect that, and I do respect that. And truth be told, from a person that worked for two seasons with the Kardashian family, it is. I feel like. I feel like Kim and Chris and all of them. And you can quote me on this people far not as the executive producer of Keeping up with the Kardashians. I. It's not one of the biggest regrets of my life that I worked on that show, but I definitely see how every guy that was involved with any of them, Lavaro, Lamar Odom, Bruce Jenner, fucking, you know, Ben Simmons. Ben Simmons, one of the best basketball players in the fucking NBA, and then he dated a Kardashian and then couldn't hit a goddamn jump shot. I think this also contributed. I think that kind of fame was enough to push a guy that was already mentally unstable from, you know, from being. I'm religious and having. Dude, because you think about it, like, he's really in a good place to be when he's doing Sunday service. He is in. He's. He's talking about God, he's talking about Jesus. His music is good. And then the shift happens, and then we start getting into, which is like, you know, I mean, dude, the first of all, right, the Donda listening parties, like, whereas most people would just rent a studio, he's booking out a goddamn arena. Is that crazy? Or is that. Is that just cool? Or is it crazy cool?
- [59:44]
B
Oh, crazy.
- [59:44]
A
Okay.
- [59:45]
B
Crying and he had to do's working out like they was in jail.
- [59:48]
A
Yeah.
- [59:48]
B
Shit. That was fire.
- [59:50]
A
I did think it was kind of dope having him having, like, Marilyn Manson there. And, like, you know, look, it's. It's. It's so funny that he stole all his clothing. Shit.
- [59:58]
B
I mean, also, let's keep in mind the man is bipolar and going through a divorce. He's doing divorced man shit. He's just like, my. My man cave is going to be the Mercedes Benz. I'm going to live in there. And I'm like, because he's bipolar.
- [60:15]
A
Yeah. No, dude.
- [60:17]
B
And going through an emotion, an actual emotional experience.
- [60:22]
A
Okay.
- [60:22]
B
And that happen at the same time.
- [60:24]
A
Totally, totally, totally. You're 100, right? He's put. He's out there. He is. His ego's already through the roof. I mean, the south park people with the, you know, the fish sticks thing. I mean. And this is the thing. It's like, I'm not. It's not on, Connie. Not being a talented artist. It's just like, he's just so in his head. So he's so in his head that he can then do what he did in 2022, which is make the comments that basically brought down, you know, his deal with Adidas. Like, is. Is easy after the anti semitic. After the Nick Fuente. After all this. Like, one. And this is what I was trying to get to before, because we were in the green room at the stand, and I think I was talking to Derek and somebody else, and I. And I was talking about. It was when he was all. Were really starting to kind of make the turn into, like, dude, Jay Z. Like, what are you doing? Like, can, like, do you think black audience see Kanye less as a villain and more as, like, the brilliant cousin who just needs therapy? Like, is it defensible? Can you defend what he does? You know?
- [61:31]
B
Like, Kanye's like, my, like, crackhead cousin. Like, I'm never going to not fuck with Kanye.
- [61:37]
A
Okay?
- [61:38]
B
It's just never gonna. There's no world I see where I'm like, I don't fuck with Kanye. There's a time I stopped listening. Cause I was like, I don't wanna hear this Kanye. Like, you're bugging out. And I'm not interested in hearing this right now. Like, I can't go, where you going? But I'm still like, I'm gonna listen to vultures when it drop. I'm gonna see what you want.
- [62:00]
A
So there's nothing. So, I mean, without killing somebody. I don't want to say that. Like, it's like, he's there. There is. There is. Like, because that was what I was trying to get to is that I was like, him on Jews or him
- [62:12]
B
just even, you know, bugging the out. Like, yeah, it's a. It's like, bro, you bugging the out. You know what I'm saying? Like, but.
- [62:20]
A
But at what point does he's misunderstood and he's a genius turn into. Nah, that's just. This is just who he is. Like, do we.
- [62:27]
B
Do we even think it was all linked? Like, I hate to be this person. It was all linked to bipolar behavior. This is around the same time where you. There was right before, the stuff. The anti Semitic stuff really exploded. There was all sprinkles of it. Right around this same time that that's happening. There's a video of him going up to some homeless kid on the street and giving him mad stuff and then being like, I'm gonna take you to the studio to make an album. Bipolar type behavior. Even I saw an interview with Kim where she was like, he would just give away our cars. And I would come home, like, for our cars, and he'd be like, I gave them to this person and that person that. But she's like, but yeah, but, like, what are we gonna, like, ride in? You know what I'm saying? When you learn about, like, bipolar, like, this is all very, like, on par with bipolar disorder that is not treated. And when you have a circle surrounding you of, yes, people, and not necessarily maybe people that care about you the way that they should, or not even that they should, don't even know how to access you, to care about you the way that they should because of what you become. And you just decide, yo, I'm not taking my meds. And like, no, nobody can make me, which they can't. And you still have money, you still have power. You still have access to media. People still want to interview you. Like, I hate to be like a soapboxy nigga, but a lot of what I felt was, he's obviously fucking crazy right now. Stop talking to this man.
- [63:52]
A
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [63:53]
B
He's putting a camera in his.
- [63:54]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [63:55]
B
But also, it's clear he's going through something. The. The rants and how they would go, like. And I've been around people who are bipolar. They get into these type of wormholes, dude, and they just go, go, go, go, go, go, go. And we'll string conspiracy after conspiracy and tell you it's this and that and the third and truly, when it's happening in Front of you. It's scary and.
- [64:18]
A
And happening to somebody that is. Been so in control of their narrative, their whole fucking career, and is a genius and has changed music and fashion and everything. He is a fucking culture.
- [64:30]
B
I used to say, like, my fear is that Kanye's gonna be our Donny Hathaway.
- [64:35]
A
What does that mean?
- [64:36]
B
Like, Donny Hathaway was, you know, had mental issues. I don't want to pinpoint it. I think it was bipolar disorder. But he had, like. He ended up killing himself. But it was like, one of the greatest musicians to ever live. And kind of people were just watching him unravel in real time and not really knowing what to do about it.
- [64:57]
A
Yeah. Oh. I mean, that's happened so many, so many times. But on the level of, like, them being. Well, I mean, Michael Jackson, I mean, but he. I don't.
- [65:05]
B
But I mean, like, the genius of Kanye, not just saying Michael Jackson is a difference, but.
- [65:09]
A
Yeah, because Michael was just kept with his face and. And you're just like, dude, stop. Like, you're good.
- [65:14]
B
Like, you're the mentally unravel that. It was. It clear as day was happening. It was like, yo, he's bugging out.
- [65:22]
A
Well, how does. Let me ask you a question. Is there a difference between how black Twitter jokes about him versus how, like, mainstream media condemns him? Like, do you. Like, what is. What is the difference when it. When it really comes down to it? Like, when you hear. When you hear CNN or any of the newspapers or any of the publications that are, like, on them, you know, for.
- [65:41]
B
For the song, create all the stuff he did. Because it's not important to them. Yeah, but it's important to us. So we're always going to have some level of that in our minds when we speak about them, you know, but that stuff isn't really important to them. So they. They can. They can be more, I guess, dismissive, you know, where. Where it's like, where you would see, you know, maybe sympathy for a white star that they understood, you know, like, it's a bad comparison because it's two totally different things. But, you know, I often think about, like, the way Hollywood just out cried for Robert Downey Jr. Or Britney Spears, you know what I'm saying? Because Hollywood and white people understand the value of what that is. I don't think culturally they understand the value of what Kanye is, so their ability to be dismissive of him completely
- [66:38]
A
is easier for white people. I'll say this. I say they get to a certain place where they're like, all Right, we can forgive that. All right. That's just him being a genius. All right? That's mental health. And I think people are just. When you start doing the fucking. I mean. And by the way, I gotta admit, Heil Hitler. Like, as a song, I mean, Alex, if you have it, just don't play it. No, I was gonna say play it in the background. Don't play it. It's catchy. It's a catchy song. Even when he's writing, like, the Hitler song. Yeah, it's catchy.
- [67:13]
B
It is catchy.
- [67:13]
A
It's catchy.
- [67:14]
B
I mean, he's good at making music.
- [67:17]
A
He really is. If you're gonna be anti Semitic, he
- [67:21]
B
knows how to make music. That doesn't stop. He doesn't stop knowing how to make music, even if his, his shit is bugging out, you know?
- [67:28]
A
Yeah, I mean, I, I think that I, I think that it's. It's hard to say that, that you're done with somebody that you, that you love and has done so for, for, you know, for so many people like, that he's turned on. And it's just like, you know that this dude has just been through shit too. So it's like we kind of do give him a break. Is there going to be a place where there is no turning back for him, though? Like, that's. I think to put a period on it is like, yeah, has he hit that or is he. Or is he on the verge of it? Where do you think if 10 is? Like, if 10 is he's done. Where do you think we are in what he's done, number wise? Like, like, where would you put it?
- [68:06]
B
Damn. We, we, we got. We had a strong eight.
- [68:11]
A
That's high, dude.
- [68:13]
B
That's strong. You can't, you can't negate that. Ego plays into this, all this. Yes. I could talk about the bipolar part of this, sure. But also his ego is a part of this, you know what I'm saying? I'm sure there's people who have experienced him in real time would be like, nah, Sam, you don't get it. He. He's not the. He's not the kindest dude, you know what I mean? He's not the chillest guy to be around type shit, you know? So I think there's a combination going there because you don't have a lot of people, like, in his life, in his circle that are like, running to be like, let's shelter him and shield him. And I'm like, well, I wonder what that's about. You Know, so I think you got to hold some responsibility to Yay as well, you know, So I put it at an eight.
- [69:03]
A
I put him at an eight. Yeah. I don't. Look, I. I think he just put out that apology, and I think he's medicated again. And. And hopefully, you know, like, you know,
- [69:13]
B
so that's choice, too, at that point. Right. The same way he talks about, like, slavery is a choice. It's like we're at the point where this has been kind of a back and forth with you, with, I'm on my men's. I'm off my men. You know, when he released Yay, it was, I don't need my meds. Fuck my meds. And I get that that is a struggle that a lot of people who have bipolar disorder have and how the meds may make you feel, how it makes you feel stifled in your creativity and all these things, and you're trying to find that balance. And I don't know that struggle. And as a creative, I have to say that probably feels like one of the worst things in the world. But now we're at a place with where it's like, well, if you go off your meds again and start screaming about Jews, you starting to be out here making choices.
- [69:50]
A
Yeah. And I think there's only a certain point where you can say, oh, this is just genius and ego without guardrails. And it's just also the speed of the. Of media just amplifying everything and taking it up to the next level because they're trying to get clicks, you know? And when you mix mental health with money and then people around him not saying no to him, of course it's gonna get twisted. But, you know, on a lighter note, before we do the final questions, is. Is like, do you think. Think we'll be talking in the future about Kanye's music or what he said off. Off the record, you. What do you think is going to be both? Do you think he's still got great music coming or.
- [70:35]
B
Bully is not bad.
- [70:37]
A
I didn't listen to Vote. I think I might have heard, like,
- [70:39]
B
did you listen to Vultures?
- [70:41]
A
I did listen to some of Vultures. Ty Dolla Sign. Big fan of him. When he used to DJ at the strip club, I remember him. Did he do It's Going up on a Tuesday. That's on Rules. It's going down on a Tuesday.
- [70:56]
B
I don't know. I don't think so. I don't think he produced that. I might be wrong produce that himself. But who did that?
- [71:04]
A
I think it was like a gay person, right? It was like a gay dude. It was like, you're.
- [71:07]
B
You're bugging now.
- [71:08]
A
Hold on.
- [71:10]
B
I love McConnen.
- [71:11]
A
I think that's. I love. Hold on, hold on.
- [71:13]
B
He came out later on. Yeah. He wasn't gay when it was. When it. Well, he was gay when it dropped, I guess, but he wasn't out.
- [71:22]
A
It's going down on Tuesday. I wonder what happened on that Tuesday. Do you say. Do you think. Do you think Kanye has got another. Do you think his best work. Do you think his best work is behind him or in front of him? Do you think he's gonna make another.
- [71:37]
B
I cannot predict such things.
- [71:40]
A
If you had to. If you had to calsha it. If you had to put money on the fucking. We'll put. How about this? We put a hundred dollars. We put me and you together, we'll go 50. 50. We go on cow sheet. We put a bet in about. About what we think does. Do we think he's got. I'm going on you. I'm not going on me. I don't think he's got his. I, I don't. I, I hope I'm wrong. I hope I'm fucking wrong that he's still got his best music in front of him and not behind him.
- [72:07]
B
But I would not even bet on such things because Tibetan on such things would be disrespectful. Word to the genius that is Kanye. I have no idea.
- [72:17]
A
I agree. I agree. I think, I hope I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong, but I think. I think he's made. Dude. And somebody said this. No. And before we do our final questions, I know you got to get you out of here. Not many artists have had a six album run the way that he did. From college dropout to late registration to graduation to 808 to fucking my beautiful dog twisted to Jesus, Watch the throne.
- [72:43]
B
If you just want to throw that in there for the fun of it.
- [72:45]
A
Oh, he's. Dude, he's. He's got that Radiohead run. He's got a Beatles run. That is hard. Yeah, it's hard to. It's. Listen as it's fallen off a little bit, I think for, for some. For passive fans. But you know what I'm saying? I'm just saying it's not. It's not what.
- [73:03]
B
It was so good.
- [73:07]
A
It's. It is great. I know we got to get you out of here, so we gotta do. Let's do final questions. We'll get you out of Here, dude, thank you so much for coming on. This is so much fun, and I'm sorry to deal with the headache at the beginning, but, dude, you rule. All right. Favorite song on this record.
- [73:22]
B
I will sing it to you. I don't know the name of it, but it's. Why is everything that's supposed to be bad make me feel so good? Everything he told me not to Was exactly what I would. I try to stop now I try the best I could but you made me smile.
- [73:40]
A
That one least favorite. Is there anything you skip over Addiction? Oh, okay. Can you. Can you. To this record?
- [73:50]
B
Yeah, you can. To addiction.
- [73:52]
A
Not just that song saying the whole record in general. Can you put the album on at the beginning and do it.
- [73:56]
B
It? Yeah.
- [73:58]
A
I'm not saying you can't. I don't know if it's. It's not like it's. I think it's not. I think it's. I think 808s and heartbreaks is a little bit more of a sexual record.
- [74:04]
B
Can we say minus the skits?
- [74:06]
A
Yes. Oh, God, yeah, please.
- [74:08]
B
Because that. But that's also because white dudes like to. To Incubus. So that's why you would say 808s is a more sexual record.
- [74:14]
A
It's. Well, 808 is a very. It's a. It's like. It's like trip hop. It's like Portishead. It's like Massive Attack.
- [74:19]
B
That's what I'm saying. Y' all like to. To that type?
- [74:21]
A
Very, very. Oh, for sure. Oh, dude, there's, like. There's, like eight songs. I mean, there's only eight songs, I think, on that record. But there's. I'd say there's like, five song record that are all. Except for. Except for in the Night When I Was box. I only hear that as, like, an Irish jig. It's like in the Night When I was Born. The greatest story ever told. That's how I hear it. That's the only way I hear it. What would be your. How do you get somebody to listen to this record that's never heard, which is nutty. They've never heard Late Registration by Kanye West? How would you get them? Like, how do you sum this up to get someone to listen to it?
- [74:54]
B
I was like, do you want to have one of the. The best sonic experiences of your life? You should listen to this.
- [75:01]
A
I love that. I think. I think. I think. I think, like we talked about, it's. It's a perfectly produced record. I think this is basically that in Jesus.
- [75:11]
B
As far as sonically.
- [75:13]
A
Oh, yeah. Oh, for sure. And Yeezus is a underrated record, too. I mean, just on new.
- [75:20]
B
Arguing with somebody about this, I don't remember who it was, but I was like, jesus is fire. You're being crazy.
- [75:26]
A
Fire. And I think this is the beginning of what we've talked about. The chaos, the ego, the tweets, the hats, the stadium sleepovers, the president side quest.
- [75:38]
B
A little bit of him being like, I'm playing with stuff.
- [75:44]
A
Yeah. And I think you. I think you. You. If you look at Touch the Sky with a stadium level anthem and. And Gold Digger with this radio Dom Roses and hey Mama and the political fire of crack music, I mean, you can go on and on. It's just that this is what happens when. When talent and a chip on your shoulder, because that's what he's got in an orchestral production, they all collide.
- [76:06]
B
Let's not forget, in a, like, real consciousness and a real being raised in the culture.
- [76:14]
A
Yes.
- [76:14]
B
You know, that's what happens. That's. That's the mix.
- [76:17]
A
I think. I think. I think late. Yeah. I think this is the best way to say this if anybody's ever listened to it. This is. This is. This is basically Kanye west not just being a genius. He's trying to convince the world that he's a genius. And he does a great job at stating his case. And I think when you talk about artists and you talk about a cultural debate about an artist. Yeah, you can't. You can't not listen to this from front to back and not hear the hunger and hear the confidence and hear the insecurity behind all of the bravado. And I think to get to where we're gonna get with Kanye, this record is his most vulnerable in explaining what he's going to do. And I think eventually, then it just takes off with My Beautiful dark, twisted and 808's of heartbreak and so on and so forth down the line. I mean, it's just. Yeah, promote away, Sam. What do you got coming up? I mean, you know, we. You're. Are you on the road?
- [77:17]
B
When does this come out?
- [77:17]
A
It comes out tomorrow.
- [77:19]
B
Oh, then I will promote Philly. I'm in Philly next weekend at the Punchline Philadelphia. So that's March, I want to say, 14th through the 15th, and then got me looking at my calendar, so I'm gonna take that again.
- [77:38]
A
Go ahead. You gotta take your time. We're good.
- [77:40]
B
Oh. Oh, wow. 12th through the 14th.
- [77:42]
A
All right.
- [77:44]
B
I'm in Philly.
- [77:49]
A
March 12th through the 14th.
- [77:51]
B
I'm kidding. I'm in Philly March 12th through the 14th. Man at the punchline. I love that club. If you affiliate that surrounded area, come out then I'm in Pittsburgh at Bottle Rocket Social. Come out to that. That's that Sunday the 16th, I believe, or the 15th. Yeah, that's Sunday the 15th. Why? The Rocket Social in Pittsburgh. And then I'm gonna be in Australia at the Melbourne Comedy Festival for an entire month from 22nd March until 20th April. So come to some of my shows if you in Melbourne, if you live in Melbourne, if you hearing this from Melbourne, if you want to hop that hour flight from Sydney to Melbourne, come pull up on your girl.
- [78:39]
A
We have a huge Australian audience. Australia, England, they're big. So come out if you've never seen Sam. Ladies and gentlemen, Fleece Army. You know we always bring good guests. Sam, I can't thank you enough for coming on, babe. This is so much fun. Please come back. We've got 115 episodes left, so we got more. But, dude, you were great. Thank you, babe.
- [78:59]
B
No problem, dude.
- [79:00]
A
What did I tell you? What did I tell you? The one and only Sam j on Instagram. Samj. Comedy. Samj.org I love that. And for all standup dates, go to that website for new music. Distrokid has brought you Sweet Face Killa by Infinite Coles, and you can find links to their music on the website. The 500 podcast. Next week, Derek Domino's Derek Domino's Derek the Dominoes with Layla and other assorted love songs. It's a Grady. Do it, listen. Enjoy it. Bye bye.
- [79:38]
B
Killer nasty on a beat bang bang go gorilla batty boy Sweet space killer nasty on a beat bang bang go gorilla batty boy sweet face Killer nasty on a beat bang bang go gorilla batty boy sweet face Killer nasty on a beat bang Bangari got problems I'm
- [79:54]
A
the right bitch to starve them how you body count up but your pockets
- [79:57]
B
are starving how you in the Mac truck but forget you a father I
- [80:00]
A
be seeing hating but I don't even
- [80:01]
B
bother Is it me?
- [80:02]
A
Am I not your cup of te?
- [80:04]
B
Are my pants not low like your self esteem?
- [80:06]
A
Do I need to a just so you can see what shot your hound on you Just like my EBT now
- [80:10]
B
that would eat but I'm still hungry Be surprised what I do when I'm
- [80:14]
A
hungry Might be a pretty but I ain't scared to get ugly Pop you
- [80:17]
B
like I ain't talking about the bubbly
- [80:19]
A
yeah, don't get it twisted I keep the switch first stop be that next
- [80:22]
B
time that I don't give a about what you say in the super rich push you like a nasty on a beat bang bang go Gorilla B Boy sweet face killer nasty on a beat bang bang go gorilla B Boy sweet face killer nasty on a beat bang bang go Gorilla B On a beat bang bang
- [80:47]
A
who more bringers that'll kill for free they don't give a about the other men I seek now that's real man your apology when I got
- [80:53]
B
my back I'm feeling like Stella Yes, I'm sweet but the face is the killer oh you man let me get
- [80:59]
A
some sugar Got a full thing bp you could. Killer.
- [81:19]
B
Body boy sweet face killer nasty on a beat bang bang go gorilla B boy sweet face killer nasty on a beat bang bang go Gorilla B boy sweet face killer nasty on a beat bang bang Gorilla B.
- [81:51]
A
The 500 keeping it flee for the fleece nation on the fleece 500. The 500.
- [82:17]
B
Close your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste.
- [82:41]
A
Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contacts. Every Tuesday, Steve Gibson and I get together to talk security on Security Now. Hi, this is Leo Laporte. I hope you'll join us. Steve has lots to be worried about. I guess we all do. The uncertain future of CISA in the United States, the rise of AI generated malware, and Ireland, which is saying, hey, it's legal to distribute spyware to get into your phone security. Now every Tuesday, you can find it at Twitt tv SN or wherever you get your podcasts. Next chapter. Podcasts.