124 - Moby Grape - Moby Grape - Wayne Federman

Summary

Podcast Summary: The 500 with Josh Adam Meyers

Episode 124: Moby Grape – Moby Grape (with Wayne Federman)

Date: January 21, 2026
Guest: Wayne Federman
Album: Moby Grape (1967)
Rolling Stone 500 Rank: 124

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Episode Overview

In this episode, host Josh Adam Meyers and returning guest Wayne Federman delve into the story and legacy of Moby Grape’s self-titled 1967 debut, ranked #124 on Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Albums list. While the album is often admired by musicians and critics, Josh and Wayne explore how the band became one of rock’s most tragic “what could have been” stories. The conversation is laced with comedy, personal anecdotes, and deep dives into the music industry’s darker side, making for both an entertaining and insightful listen.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Who is Moby Grape?

• The Name:
  • The band is named after an old kid’s joke: “What’s big and purple and lives in the ocean? Moby Grape.”
  • “It might be the only rock band named after a kid’s joke.” — Wayne (06:14)
• Background:
  • The band was a part of the late '60s San Francisco scene, alongside Jefferson Airplane and Grateful Dead.
  • Moby Grape is seen as the “great what-if band” in rock: critically lauded, huge label support, but dogged by misfortune.

2. A Cautionary Tale of the ’60s Rock Scene

• Tale of Implosion:
  • “They might be…the most cautionary tale…This band imploded in a such a huge way so quickly and never recovered.” — Wayne (07:00)
  • The story of Moby Grape’s failure is marked by bad management, legal woes, poor strategic decisions, and personal breakdowns.
• Skip Spence’s Breakdown:
  • Key founding member Skip Spence had a psychotic break, attempted to attack bandmates with an axe, and was institutionalized at Bellevue.
  • “He ended up having, like, a psychotic break and tried to kill other members of the band with an ax.” — Wayne (26:27)
  • Mental illness was exacerbated by LSD use and fame pressure, in echoes of other tragic ’60s figures (Sid Barrett, et al).

3. Why Didn’t Moby Grape Make It Big?

• Bad Management & Legal Strife:
  • Manager Matthew Katz (spelled “Kates”) took the band’s publishing rights and the very name “Moby Grape,” leading to decades of legal headaches.
  • “He owned the name Moby Grape…took their publishing…stole the band.” — Wayne (29:48)
• Columbia Records’ Blunders:
  • Columbia released five singles from the album on the same day the album dropped (just six days after Sgt. Pepper’s), creating confusion and killing the chance for a breakout hit.
  • “On the same day the album comes out, you could buy 10 of the 13 tracks as singles…It was a mistake.” — Wayne (34:40)
• Timing:
  • Their debut was swamped by the release of Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band.

4. San Francisco Ballrooms & Cultural Context

• The Fillmore and Avalon Ballroom were at the center of the SF music scene. Moby Grape were tightly tied to this universe, but their music was distinct from the era’s jam bands—short, punchy, harmony-driven songs instead of extended psychedelia.
• “They were more of a singles band…songs are like two and a half minutes…different than what was going on in that scene.” — Wayne (27:44)

5. Why the Album Still Matters

• Musicianship:
  • Three main songwriters, three main vocalists, lush harmonies, and tight playing, especially guitarist Jerry Miller.
  • “If I can compliment one guy in the band…I’d like to talk to Jerry Miller. He’s just really incredible.” — Wayne (41:37)
• Critical Reassessment:
  • It’s become a cult classic, respected by musicians (Springsteen has covered “Omaha”) and collectors.
  • “Omaha” is ranked in Rolling Stone’s Top 100 Guitar Songs.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Skip Spence:
  • “He’s the only one that’s passed away, but he has a son…He obviously had some mental problems, but also, this was the era of, like, ‘We’re going to take acid and luxuriate in it.’” — Wayne (26:41)
• On Band Dynamics:
  • “It’s the great what-could-have-been band, I think, of the late ‘60s. No question.” — Wayne (84:21)
• On the Band’s Legacy:
  • “This is what proves when success and greatness are truly two completely different things.” — Josh (87:27)
• On the Album’s Sound:
  • “They’re not really a psychedelic band…they’re the opposite of Grateful Dead…They’re the Cliff Notes of the Grateful Dead.” — Josh (33:46)
• On the Album Cover’s Controversy:
  • “Look at Don Stevenson…He’s giving the finger…They had to airbrush out that finger…So they had to recolor the flag behind them because people thought it meant communism.” — Wayne (44:26)

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Breakdown of Key Segments

(Timestamps approximate for guidance; refer to the transcript for exact context.)

[05:10] – The Joke Behind the Band Name:

• Discussion of the “Moby Grape” joke and why it’s so unique as a band name.

[07:12] – The Cautionary Tale:

• Introduction to Moby Grape as the ultimate “what if” band.

[26:27] – Skip Spence’s Breakdown:

• Wayne recounts the story of Skip Spence’s psychotic break and its impact on the band.

[29:21] – Columbia vs. Atlantic:

• Wayne’s opinion on label choice and the recording quality, and how those decisions shaped the band’s fate.

[34:22] – Columbia’s Single Release Blunder:

• The epic miscalculation of releasing five singles at once.

[45:01] – Album Cover Controversy:

• The infamous album cover incident and trouble with the American flag and “the finger.”

[54:02] – Moby Grape’s Influence (or Lack Thereof):

• The band’s marginal cultural afterlife; the rare cover versions and soundtrack placements.

[57:30] – The Axe Incident and the Band’s Dissolution:

• The details of Skip Spence’s arrest and institutionalization.

[78:01] – Track-by-Track Faves & Final Judgment:

• Quick run-through of favorite tracks (“Hey Grandma,” “Omaha”), and why “Omaha” is the standout.

[83:28] – Final Thoughts:

• Summary of the band’s place in history, the sense of lost potential, and why the album is still worth hearing.

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Stand-out Album Tracks Discussed

• Omaha – Short, energetic, and the album’s standout for guitar work and harmonies; considered their signature song.
  • “Two and a quarter red hot minutes.” — Josh (63:21)
• Hey Grandma – Infectious, catchy, exemplifies the band’s blend of rebellion and politeness.
• Other highlights: “8:05” (a beautiful ballad), “Fall on You” (confidence and restraint).

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Why Listen to Moby Grape’s Debut?

• Great What-If:
  • The ultimate story of untapped potential and bad luck in rock history.
• Unique Place in the ‘60s Scene:
  • Not a jam band; more akin to tight, harmony-driven rock with country, blues, and pop influences.
• Cursed Legacy & Cult Status:
  • The album is a testament to how external chaos, poor business decisions, and personal tragedy can derail true talent.
• Musician’s Music:
  • Musicians love it, even if the public never caught on.
• Short, Punchy, and Accessible:
  • Ideal for listeners seeking tight songwriting over extended psychedelia.

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Summary & Closing Thoughts

“It’s the great what-could-have-been band, I think, of the late ‘60s. No question.” — Wayne Federman (84:21)
“This proves when success and greatness are truly two completely different things.” — Josh Adam Meyers (87:27)
“The tragedy is that it actually worked perfectly—it’s just the world didn’t know what to do with it.” — Josh (86:50)

In summary, Moby Grape’s debut is lauded as a hidden gem—brimming with talent, yet beset by almost unbelievable misfortune. The band’s story is a potent reminder of how luck, management, timing, and mental health can shape a legacy just as much as musical genius. For music buffs and historians, this is required listening and a fascinating case study in rock ’n’ roll tragedy.

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Further Listening / Related Episodes

• Jefferson Airplane – Surrealistic Pillow (referenced: Spence’s role as drummer)
• Janis Joplin (upcoming, possibly featuring Judd Apatow)
• Big Star, The Velvet Underground (“what if”/influence bands)

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Next week: Run-D.M.C. – Raising Hell (1986)

Transcript

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The 500 the 500J been walking us down through that 2012 edition so it.

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A friend the king of peace for.

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Angelo Talking the 500 until the end Talking the 500 until the end with.

[Wayne Fetterman]

My man JM.

[Josh Adam Myers]

On the 500 Talking the 500 until the end. Mama. That is the opening track by Moby Grape. Have you heard of them before this episode? I don't think so. Me neither. It's from their 1967 self titled album Moby Grape. Same name. Who knew? Number 124 out of 500 of the 500 with me. What's up everybody? I'm Josh Adam Myers. I'm going through Rolling Stone magazine's list of the 500 greatest albums. We are making our way dude. Making Our Way Downtown 124 Moby Grape and it's homebound. I'm leaving town so we're making this intro quick. Subscribe to patreon patreon.com backslash the 500 podcast YouTube YouTube.com backslash the 500 Podcast subscribe to my YouTube YouTube.com backslash Josh Adamire 79 and support the show any way you can. Follow us I'll be in Calgary this weekend. Well Tonight I got a show at the Comedy Store with Bill Burr and then next I'm at the Laugh Shop in Calgary this Thursday through Saturday. It's one of my favorite clubs. It fucking rules. Come one, come all. Enjoy yourself. You know what to do. Josh Adamyers.com for tickets go to oshannemyers on all social media. Wayne Fetterman joined us again, the first fetty of the year and we will see him probably many, many times. He's one of my favorite people and this was a fun episode as usual because this is an interesting band. Some of you know, some of you don't. Either way, we get down to the thick of potatoes. I don't know if that's even a saying, but who gives a shit? For Wayne Fetterman, check his stand updates on his website WayneFetterman.com be sure to check out the documentary Maria Bamford Paralyzed by Hope, the Maria Bamford Story. It is out now. As well as upcoming documentary Mel Brooks the 99 Year Old man on HBO Max January 22nd. That's I'm excited about. He's the best Ray Review and most Importantly, subscribe to the 500 listen free on all platforms. Anyway, you get your pods. Follow me at Josh Adam Myers on all social media, follow the podcast at the 500 podcast. Email the podcast at 500podcastgmail.com Facebook group is run by Crazy Evan. And for all things 500, go to the website the500podcast.com. All right, y', all, here we go with whatever the number this is. Oh, 124. Yeah, I didn't pay attention. Moby great with Moby great. Because this is all comedy. Yes, this is all comedy. Always hit record, Kyle. Always Alex. Always hit record. So what everybody just missed was me deciding if this was Moby Grapes or Moby Grapes. Mopey or Moby.

[Wayne Fetterman]

What's big and purple and lives in the ocean?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Grimace, the Godzilla. The. The newest one that they just put in black and white. Gosh darn it. This is why, this is where I fail in comedy, is that when I need a reference that I see it, I see the reference. I see exactly what I need to say. It's right there. And I just forget it. I forget it. There's a God. Plus, is it Godzilla plus minus. Was that the new.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Oh, I see.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I see.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And I can't. It's right there. It's movie. It's moppy. It's moppy grape. While I get up, while I get this thing, I have this new I'm not going to say what it would. I have this new thing, but I got the info for this album up, Wayne. I can't believe we're doing it. Yeah, we're doing this one. You didn't want to do it.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I'm fine.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I'm fine with it.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I've. I've come to terms with it. I'm. I'm all good. But anyway, what's big and purple and lives in the ocean is. Was a joke. A kid's joke.

[Josh Adam Myers]

What do you mean?

[Wayne Fetterman]

And the answer was Moby Grape and this. So it might be the only rock band named after a kid's joke.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, this is a. This is the thing.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

This isn't like just some. This is. This is named after a thing.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah, a joke. An old joke the kids used to tell. It's like, what's big and red in each rocks? A big red rock eater. Why did the guy throw the clock out the window? To watch time fly like. It's one of those level jokes, and that's what this band is. Moby Grape. Not Dick. Not Dick.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Have you known about this band? I mean, I've heard about them for years, but I just don't.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Oh, they are the great. They might be the. Of this list I have. I don't have all this memorized, but it might be the most cautionary tale. Great.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Wh.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Ifs all of that stuff. This band imploded in a such a huge way so quickly and never, never recovered.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's funny that you say that, because I'm. I'm reading right now that this is this record, which we're talking about 67's mopey grape. Yeah, it's on. It's nicknamed. How. How did this band not become huge?

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yes.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That.

[Wayne Fetterman]

That is the story of Moby Grape. And I hate to say it because four of these guys are still around and might be listening to this episode, but it is really like. Oh, the.

[Josh Adam Myers]

The.

[Wayne Fetterman]

The cutthroat waters of Big Time record producing is just brutal.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Do you want to. Well do. Before we even dive into this while I still get all my. My up and running? Do you. What. What do you. What do you got going on, buddy? This is the first one. A big one. Hold on.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Alex.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Alex, could you do me a favor and find out how many episodes Wayne did in 2025? How many episodes was Wayne.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Sorry. Sorry to put you.

[Josh Adam Myers]

To work. He's. Dude, he's in. Were you in dc? Alex, you're in, bro. You're in Brooklyn. Oh, no, I Was gonna say. I was like, I didn't know if you were in dc. He did do. He did, though, yesterday, go down to the January 6th memorial, you know, to Ashley. David Ashley Babbitt. Oh, good old Ash Bab. Oh, my Lord. Hold on. I'm trying to pull this up. Wayne. So what do you got going on, dude? What do you. What's been.

[Wayne Fetterman]

You know, this. Is this the beginning of 2026? Or do you call it 2026?

[Josh Adam Myers]

What do you call it?

[Wayne Fetterman]

2026. But I'm a weirdo.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Okay, okay.

[Wayne Fetterman]

The 226.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I like that. I like that. I like that. Okay. It's very, like George Lucas first movie, you know? Yeah. THX1000.

[Wayne Fetterman]

But so the. This is what's going on. I'm going to Sundance with the movie.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Which one? The.

[Wayne Fetterman]

The Bamford documentary. We're premiering it on opening night at Sundance.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, she's excited. I just talked to her about it. She did. She did an episode. She did Raw Power by the Stooges. Really? Yeah. I know. Isn't that crazy? Tell me about telling me, dude. I mean, sometimes we get these bookings, and I'm like, all right. She seems more like a Moby Grape.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But she wanted Raw Power the most now, the most, like, driving and neutral comedian I've ever seen in my life. Just constant glide. A nice glisten, like you always say. Like, hey, you know, you want to ease into the bathtub like an old man. Like, she. She just energetically is just so chill, you know, but with that underlying energy of the neuroses that she has inside of her, which, I mean, we all do. But hers are, like, real prevalent. But she was fantastic. But, yeah, she had mentioned that. Congrats to that. Oh, we all do.

[Wayne Fetterman]

So we're doing that. And then on top of that, if that wasn't enough, okay, going to the Sundance Film Festival. The other documentary I did, the one that I produced on Mel Brooks, is premiering on 22 January. Really? On HBO, on Home Box Office. And we're getting some preliminary reviews. So far, all good.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Thank God. Because. Thank God it's going head to head with Primate. The movie. The. The monkey Cujo movie, which, I'm telling you, I'm going to see Primate. I'm going. I don't give a. About Mel Brooks. I want to see the deaf guy from Coda. You're trying to sign to his. His kids, his beautiful children. Because, of course, they're all, you know, Teen Vogue models at one point in their lives. That somehow just happen to be the ones that get attacked. Why is it. Why in horror movies is everybody beautiful? We're the ugly people.

[Wayne Fetterman]

It's Hollywood. It's Hollywood, baby.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, but uglify it. And then you give her shit. Like you would. I would give a shit if ugly people are being attacked. Because you're like, they. They got a good job. They've got.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Did you just. On a sidebar, I. You know, I'm a film buffer.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Uno? Sure.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Did you happen to see Breakdown, 1975 on Netflix?

[Josh Adam Myers]

No, but I've seen the. I've seen the square. Like, I seen the. The thing. What is it?

[Wayne Fetterman]

It's just a. It's a weird documentary that posits the question or the statement that 1975 is the most important year in the history of Hollywood. But that's not why I'm talking about it. I don't think they totally make their case. But.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Hold on for a second. I gotta watch this. And we need to discuss this three weeks from now when you come back for another album that we couldn't find anybody for.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Nine times into 2025.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Nine times nine.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Nine number nine.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Nine number nine. Oh, it's time for Featherman. Thank you for the research.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Thank you for the research.

[Josh Adam Myers]

9 times 9 number 9 times.

[Wayne Fetterman]

So. So anyway, what was interesting about the documentary, outside of them, I feel like not completing their mission statement, but still fun to watch movies from that era. But was that Jeff Goldblum, our Jeff Goldblum who's in Wicked Part 2, is in two of those movies from that era. And it was just. It's just what a career. Like, he's the only one, like, in two. He's currently in movies. And he was in two of those movies from that era, Nashville and then a movie called. Oh, my God. It's the Charles Bronson movie. What's the. The famous revenge movie?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, Death. Death Wish.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Death Wish. Have you ever seen Death Wish?

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, come on, dude. What do you think? I don't know. I've never seen it. I saw the vhs.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Like, you know, this is why I'm bringing up. So Jeff Goldblum, who's the goofy, lovable, plays a scientist, the awkward guy, the jazz dude, the skinny dude who does Apartments.com commercials, you know Jeff Goldblum.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, my God, of course. Yes. He's. Dude, this girl I was, like, hooking up with recently when we were watching like, the. The Critics Choice Awards for a second, and he popped in and, I mean, she saturated how attracted she was to this guy. And it's like, all right, dude, you know, chill out. Of course he was in the Fly. Yeah, dude, in the Fly. That's the Fly. And can we be honest? The Fly. And. And I would say first, Jurassic Park. Second as well, the most attractive, Jeff Goldblum. But I still say, oh, the Fly.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Gays.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, the Fly. I mean, even when he kind of changed into Brundle Fly, I was like.

[Wayne Fetterman]

All right, you know, sidebar of sidebar. Will you allow it? Double side, please.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You're allowed. Good.

[Wayne Fetterman]

The fly from 1986, I believe, produced by. Bringing It All Home, Mel Brooks.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, wait, it was, wasn't it?

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah, it was a. Yeah. Brooks films.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Interesting.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Why did he.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Why did he have. Did he buy the rights from the 50s movie or the 60s movie or.

[Wayne Fetterman]

No, no, he. I know he wanted to produce movies and he didn't want to have his name on it. Even though Brooks films, you can. It doesn't take a scientist or Magellan to figure out what we're talking about here. It's. And yeah, so he did that one, obviously, you know, he did the Elephant Man. Like, really serious movies.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I know that. Yeah.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Okay. That's the sidebar of the sidebar.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But I love that.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Back to the original Goldblum.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Wayne Fetterman]

In Death Wish, and this is going to blow your mind again. Attractive, cute, awkward. He plays. I can't remember the character's name is something like Tough Guy number three or something. It's even worse. Or Freak number three. Freak three. He plays a brutal rapist in this movie. Like, literally breaks into a house, terrorizes a mom and her daughter, Rapes anally. Rapes them, like, on camera. It is one of the wildest turns of events for a guy who ends up being this dude.

[Josh Adam Myers]

He shops at where I buy all my jeans, Schaefer's Garment Hotel, which is like. He was the one that brought Conan o' Brien there. And they talk about it in this. This one interview. I forget where it was. It's.

[Wayne Fetterman]

These designers give me a price range of what a jeans will cost because I've never spent shavers.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh. I mean, give me a range.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Just give me.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's raw. All right, so it's raw Japanese denim. I would say. I would say upwards. When I first bought them, they were 275. Now, through inflation and through, I think, just market value, because he started doing it at more expensive boutiques like Sachs, and I think he was doing Barney's for a while. I'd say they're upwards of, like, high threes, middle, mid to low, high threes, fours, some. Some upwards, 5 and 6 for a.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Single pair of jeans.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Single pair that you'll have forever. You'll have forever. As long as you. You. You can maintain them. And you know, it's that whole, like that whole dry.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Because you have to do any kind of.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No, you barely. You barely wash them. If you wash them, you. You only. You wash them while wearing them. You go in the shower and you scrub them down. And then you. You hang. Dry them inside out. You never dry them. You wait as long as you can to wash them because then the lines that you'll get from wearing them will start coming out. Like, I have pairs. Like I have one pair. I've never washed.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I've never heard. I've never washed one piece of clothes in the shower. I've never even heard of it. I have something on a washing machine where you throw it in, you put in some detergent, put in like a softener, and you're off. You don't use those.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I know I do. So. First of all, I don't do my laundry anymore. I have these Chinese people that live down the street, and they do everything. It's a fluff and fold. It is because my time is more valuable than going down and doing that. I'd rather. And I'd rather work.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I have a washer in my house.

[Josh Adam Myers]

If I had that, I wouldn't do this because it is a waste of money. And I mean, with I. With what I've spent on laundry so far, I could.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Do. They do it by the pound.

[Josh Adam Myers]

They do. I don't know. I think. I think so. It's like every once a month. It's about 100 bucks. Because I have to do. I have to do a lot of hang dry because all my T shirts, that's my problem is the T shirts. If I didn't do the T shirts, then I. If I didn't have to hang dry the T shirts, I would be like, I got you. I'd be dialed in.

[Wayne Fetterman]

All right, well, let's get to Moby Grape. I love, first of all, great sidebars already. But when you see Death Wish and you see Jeff Goldblum is freak number two or three. I can't remember. It's wild.

[Josh Adam Myers]

He's also. He's also in Annie Hall. Remember, he's the guy on the phone that says, I forgot my mantra. Yeah. And Sigourney Weaver is the girl at the end that he meets with Annie Hall. When they go to see the Sorrow and the Pity, we Can't talk about that anymore. Because now, you know, he's bad. He's a bad dude. Even though he was important to all Jews in the.

[Wayne Fetterman]

He's my favorite.

[Josh Adam Myers]

He was my favorite. I mean, we all. We got. We all went to the midnight screening of Deconstructing Harry. We all were there. We all there at the arclight seeing it in IMAX 3D. Crimes and misdemeanors. That's like the Jewish Avatar, the new Woody Allen movie coming out. We're lining up at the. At the ArcLight. It's in Vista Vision.

[Wayne Fetterman]

It's bad.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, well, I'm so glad you're here, and thank you.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Thank you for inviting me. What was my initial response when you pitched.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Let me take a look. Let me take a look. Let me see what you wrote. Oh, we might have somebody for Janice Joplin.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yes, Judd.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, I didn't even. Is he a huge. Is he a huge Joplin fan?

[Wayne Fetterman]

Not only. Well, he's a huge music fan, but his grandfather was a record producer and produced her first album before the breakout album, before Big Brother.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Hold up, hold up. All right, we might have. You might have cracked the code. Hold on, dude. Hold on. Judd. Hey, bud. Are you a fan of Janice? Hold on. This is it. I'm gonna say Wayne Fetterman said, hold on. You're a fan of Janice Joplin. Pearl. Betty Fetty is on the pod now and said now and mentioned your name. So blame him. And grandfather and grandfather mention your name and grandfather. All right, well, this is. What's funny is this episode comes out after that. So Blaine, hold on. Let's see what he says. Let me know. We need a guest. Booyah. All right. There you go. Boom. That sent. God bless. All right. He's like. He doesn't blame you, but he likes. I mean, I get along. Judd's done the show a few times, so check in. So now when this episode's out, we'll know who the guest is. And so the people. If it is Judd, then you see the moment we figured out to book him. If it's not Judd and it's Rose Bud Baker, who is the girl who. Who is a homie who sang it and blah, blah, blah. I might have them both on it. You know, probably not. If it's Judd. I'm just sticking with Judd. Why?

[Wayne Fetterman]

Rosebud's having a moment. She's really good. Sure.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But I mean, I know, I know.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I'm just saying.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's Judd. Dude. It is Judd. And, you know, I. I mean, say Anymore.

[Wayne Fetterman]

You don't have to say anymore.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Here's the deal. You're saying one. Like, one is, one is. I'm trying to think of who.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Who's.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Who is like the Moby Grape contemporary that really blew up, and then who is the one that. Who's Moby Grape? Because Moby, you know, a little.

[Wayne Fetterman]

This is what I would say. And I know we spoke about this band before, but it's a little like Jellyfish. Oh, it's a little like. Although I think Jellyfish's albums were more popular than.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Hold on, hold on, hold me say this. So if you never. If you don't know why we're talking about Jellyfish right now, ladies and gentlemen. Subscribe to the Patreon. We need to do another. We need to start doing Master Fleece again. But in on one of the first episodes of Master Fleece, me, Fetty Wap, and DJ Morty Coyle talked about the records we felt should be on the 500 Greatest Albums list that aren't on there. I picked. I'm not even gonna say it. Tears for Fears, songs from the Big Chair. I forget what Morty did, but I'm assuming it was long and.

[Wayne Fetterman]

No, no, no. Wasn't it the Monkeys?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Good memory. Good memory. Yeah. But you. You pick Jellyfish, which. You're the second or third guy that I know that is, like, not obsessed, but loves Jellyfish.

[Wayne Fetterman]

You love that band. Yeah. But I also love drummers that sing, so that's a weird part of me.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Is that true?

[Wayne Fetterman]

You're.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You're a huge. You're a huge Phil Collins man. And then I'm Venom on the Land of Confusion. But I do.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I like. I just always liked it, you know, Mickey Dolan used to. You don't like drummers, you say.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No, I hate that.

[Wayne Fetterman]

What about Don Henley? What about Karen Carpenter?

[Josh Adam Myers]

I just. It just looks weird.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I love it.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I like a front man to move around and just rock and like. Yeah. Like point and kick. Kick, like the air.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Okay.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I get that they're restricted. They're restricted.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah. They're on something called. Not a seat, A throne. That's what that's called. The drum throne.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Interesting. Okay.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Very much of the monarchy in drummers.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I. I love that. I love that. You love that. Is. Does Moby Grape have a drummer on.

[Wayne Fetterman]

A. I mean, he did. The drummer does. Everyone sings in this band, so. But I wouldn't say it's. It's their lead singer now, so.

[Josh Adam Myers]

So this is. This is kind of what I mean. Do you? I could take it, but I also find, like, a little bit this is. Well, I mean, because we were talking about, like. Like, you know, you might actually be perfect for this, by the way. Dude, you're one of the most respected comedians out there. Everybody knows who you are. You know, you're. You're. You're extreme. Comics know you are. You're famous. Not in the famous way that, like, aunts know you, but you're famous. You are very famous, you know, And. And the people that respect you respect the. Out of you. But what have you done? Curb, Larry Sanders. I go on and on.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Those are the two.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Best. Real story, though, is. Is.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Oh, and I would also say Legally Blonde.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yes. Legally Step Brothers.

[Wayne Fetterman]

What we do.

[Josh Adam Myers]

In the Shadows. Yes. I keep going.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Community. Do we need to keep going? We don't have to.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Family ties.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Alf.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You played. You played.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Alf. I know you're doing, like, these jokey, like, old 90s shows, but I am on a few of them. I am on A Different World. I am Living Single.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You're on Living Single. A Different World, Martin. No, I know you aren't, but, you know, but we. You auditioned. You auditioned for Martin. I was in.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I was in the running.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I was in the running to play Martin, so. But that's what makes you perfect, because you're doing it. You've been doing it right for decades. And. And what makes you so perfect is the person to talk about Moby Grape. Because Moby Grape is the band that I have read where musicians go, wow, this album rules. Who the fuck is this? Like, who is this? Why do we not know more about. It's like. It's like, dude, you're. You're. This is. It's too smart, it's too tight, too many ideas, but zero interest. Just like your career. I'm sorry. I'm kidding. I'm sorry.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Metaphor for my career. I love it. You know, there's also the lead guy that the band was built around.

[Josh Adam Myers]

He.

[Wayne Fetterman]

He ended up having, like, a psychotic break and tried to kill other members of the band with an ax. With an ax. Not just like, oh, I'm running after you, like Jack Nicholson's Shiny Style.

[Josh Adam Myers]

What?

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yep. Skip Spence was his name. He's the only one that's passed away, but he has a son, and I don't want to. He obviously had some mental problems, but also, this was the era of, like, we're going to take acid and we're going to luxuriate in it.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Okay.

[Wayne Fetterman]

And sometimes people, you know, who are may already Their brain. Brain chemistry might be a little. It can really mess with you.

[Josh Adam Myers]

So. So. All right. So this is. This is a. I mean is this a psychedelic band? Is this a great question 60 second. Because I mean this.

[Wayne Fetterman]

They couldn't be more in the Quicksilver Messenger Service. Remember Old buddies.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh yeah.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Friends with.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Friends with Professor Long Hair dude. An offshoot of GRE Greek.

[Wayne Fetterman]

So they couldn't be more in that scene. However.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Please.

[Wayne Fetterman]

And hopefully you had time to listen to the record. It's not a psychedelic jam band record at all.

[Josh Adam Myers]

At all.

[Wayne Fetterman]

It's like a little. Every song is like two and a half minutes. Except for their final songs. They do a little not. So they were more of a. Like a singles band and. Which was different than what was going on in that scene. But they were right there in that scene. They were signed in San Francisco. They were in that whole world of the ballrooms. You know. San Francisco scene had these two, maybe three ballrooms. The biggest was called the Fillmore and then the Avalon. These were big ballrooms where they would do these rock shows. I'm sure you've seen footage with the weird strobey lights. Colorful, weird color lights behind them. And it wasn't. They were like dance halls. So kids would dance not with each other like jitterbug style but just like hippie friggin dancing. I'm loving it.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Wayne Fetterman]

It was a real scene. The ballroom dance scene in San Francisco from 66 to 68 was wow. And produce so many of these things. Big Brother, obviously. Jefferson Airplane, Grateful Dead. We've talked about this ad nauseam about this scene. But they. Moby Grape is the. The band. There was a bidding war between record companies to sign these guys. I feel like the roots of their downfall was signing with Columbia as opposed to Atlantic. I really feel like they weren't recorded as well as they should have been. But that's my own opinion. If any of those dudes are listening, I'd love to hear your opinion as well. And they also had. They also had a shyster manager. So.

[Josh Adam Myers]

So. All right, so they signed with Columbia and you're saying they should have signed with Atlantic.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I just, you know, I just. When I listen to this record and I listen to the way like the drums are recorded. I just feel like they needed like a Tom Dowd. Like. I just feel like they needed a little more heaviness in the. In the recordings of it.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Interesting.

[Wayne Fetterman]

That's. That's just my take. When you listen especially the snare. I just. That's. And I like this band. I like this album a lot, but.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, wow.

[Wayne Fetterman]

But not. You know, but you needed, like, you needed to sound like Hendrix and Cream. You know what I mean? You really needed a little more oomph, in my opinion. In my opinion, for. For as good. As good a guitar band as this was, and they were excellent. But they had a. Again, a shyster manager named Matthew. Kate's spelled K A T, Z. You want to say Cats, but it's Kates. And he kind of ripped them off and stole the name of the band and stole their publishing, and he eventually gets fired. It's. It's just a mess. Like, what's. That's what I like about comedy. Like, we're our own. Our own rugged individual. I have to deal with these guys.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, man. It's really just he. So Matt, it looks like.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yes, Matt.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You know, according to band member Peter Lewis.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Oh, Peter Lewis? Yeah. That's Loretta Young's kid. Yeah. He's one of the guitar players, not the lead guitar player.

[Josh Adam Myers]

He said Matthew brought the spirit of conflict into the band. He didn't want it to be an equal partnership.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Let me just stop with that statement. The spirit of conflict. What are we bringing into the game? Spirit of Conflict.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, which is a great name for a song or an album? I mean. Yeah, it is a spirit of conflict.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Oh, my God.

[Josh Adam Myers]

He brought the spirit of conflict into the band. He didn't want to be an equal partnership. He wanted it all.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Matt, because.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Because it says various crew members were indebted to him. So they start the. So in 67, when they all meet, he's. He's paying all their rents. He's living their living costs prior to the release of the group's album. Yeah, so he. So I. I see what he did. So he just. He got them. He gave them a comfy life while they recorded the record and said, I'll put up all the money. And realistically, he was just like, oh, I'm gonna take.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I only took the publishing. Took the name of the band. Like, he owned the name Moby Grape.

[Josh Adam Myers]

So this guy, he's. He was. Oh, he was the manager of Jefferson Airplane. Yeah, Moby Grape. And a beautiful day. It's a beautiful day.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah, The Jefferson Air. But that's how I believe. How he met Skip Spence, who is like the. Made the main guy. Also ex Jefferson Airplane. I think he plays drums on Jefferson Airplane. Takes off and Spence and him, like, let's. Let's do a band together. And Spence goes a little nutty and Say that.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You say that multiple times now. Skip Spence, he's gay. He says he would soon be institutionalized.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I'm being. Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, my God. This is. Dude, this is like.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I know, I know. It's like. It's almost like a movie.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I feel like, why isn't there. Why don't more people know about this? All right, so then. So then. So take me. Take us all through. How does this. How does this band go from. You know.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Well, let me tell you another thing that happened with this band, okay? They record this album, which is all of their rocking songs that are, like, turning people's heads in San Francisco. And like. Oh, my God, these are like the Buffalo Springfield of San Francisco. These guys are incredible. Three guitars, they're rocking out. They're tight as a drum. They're like. Everyone can sing in the band.

[Josh Adam Myers]

The base harmonies. Yeah, they got three singers, three songwriters, punchy songs, all of it.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Oh, they got something. They get the look.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And we're. And let me just. Let me just say this. From what I know from doing this podcast, all these songs are short and. And. And easy to digest, whereas everything else is long and noodling around and, like.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Noodling.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, they're. They're. They're not. They're the opposite of Grateful Dead. They're like. They're like the. They're like the. What do you call it? The. Oh, God. See, this I was talking about earlier, where I've got the perfect thing. Cliff Notes of. They're the Cliff Notes of the Grateful.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they had the look, you know, they all looked good. It was just like. They were. They had great energy. Those shows were. Again, it was a bidding war for their services and. And Columbia got them and messed it up. Let me tell you how Columbia messed it up in a big way. Besides, in my opinion, the recording.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Tell me.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Was for. Oh, they also had some bad luck. Their album came out six days after Sergeant Peppers was released. June. This is June 1976. What was called the Summer of Love. I don't know if you've heard that expression.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, I have.

[Wayne Fetterman]

So they. They're a little swamped by what's going on with that band, the Ford lads from Liverpool. And they. Colombia, for some bizarre reason, are so hyped on Moby Grape that they release, along with the album, five singles from the album on the same day. So on the same day the album comes out, you could buy 10 of the 13 tracks as singles because there's five records, there's two sides to each single. It was bizarre, it was a mistake. And so they never had a hit single. And that's what would, you know, say what you want about Jefferson Airplane, they had hit singles.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Well, they had. Yeah, that we, the, we did one of the records that had like, you know, White Rabbit, Somebody to Love. I mean, I mean, what would have been build.

[Wayne Fetterman]

That's how you build a career.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But what would have been the single off this record though?

[Wayne Fetterman]

What was the big single though? I mean, the only one I think it was was called Omaha. Omaha was the biggest. And that went to like 88 or something at a hundred out of 100 on the, the Billboard. So they like. Let's just say you're dj, it's the summer of Love, you're getting hundreds of records every week and then suddenly Columbia's A R dude or whatever comes around and like, here's five singles. What would they play? What would. What would they even play on the radio? So that. And I will say the album did pretty well. It went to 24, which is I, to me, a moderate hit for now.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, I mean, it's not like it's not buried in the hundreds, plus.

[Wayne Fetterman]

No, it's not buried in the hundreds. So it's good reviews. Yeah, it's not that again. And it got good reviews and now it's held in this esteem. I think part of the reason it's held in such high esteem is because the fracturing of the band before the next album and then that came out and that was disappointing. And the band broke up and they got back together and they never. It's just a moment. It passed. The San Francisco era had passed and now suddenly, oh, we got the friggin Eagles happening down in California, you know, and so. So it's a really. It's a heartbreaking kind of story. Although how many millions of excuse hundreds of thousands of musicians would dream of having a record deal? A lot. Most people never get recorded, so I don't know, it's hard to.

[Josh Adam Myers]

So when did it. When did it like fracture? When did it really start fracturing? Is it. Is that guy losing his mind while they're doing this?

[Wayne Fetterman]

That was part of it. That was part of it. And also their second album, because the first one only went to 24 and they didn't have any hit singles. Their second album was a little more orchestrated and less of a straight rock and roll band album because of the influence of Sgt. Peppers on the whole record industry. I'm like, oh, look, there's trumpets and violins and all this stuff that's happening. And then they felt like, this is. It doesn't even sound like us. And. And then another guy had, like a little nervous breakdown, and it just. It was just a rudderless ship that. Look, they still. They toured and stuff for years, but they weren't. They weren't even like, you know, in the meantime, all of these other bands from San Francisco are taking off. You know, Santana and our old buddy Steve Miller. My first thing I ever did with you, you know, so Janis Joplin, the whole. That whole scene, that old. By the way, they did play at your buddy Otis Redding's breakout festival, the Monterey.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Monterey Pop.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah. Yeah, they did play there. So. But here's the deal. You ready? Their manager demanded from D. A Pennebaker, the filmmaker who's doing the film, like, a million dollars to film his band. And they were like, a million dollars. The whole budget is 300, 000. What are you doing? I'm. I'm like a little independent filmmaker. What is. What do you think? And so he wouldn't give him permission to film them for the movie. So they're not in the movie. Where's Janis Joplin? This makes her career. Or Zodus Redding, this Reva? I mean, I just obviously dies a few months later. And then obviously the famous Jimi Hendrix, you know, burning up his guitar and the who. And like, it's so. Again, it's a number of near misses.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, it's everything. It's like, dude, it's. This is the epitome of Zigged, when you should have zagged, like, every. Like, you know. Yeah. You couldn't have come out at a better time. You literally. I mean, it's. You could find them there with, like. You could have been up there with Surrealistic Pillow with. Are you experienced? With sergeant Pepper all coming out around the same time. You know, it's.

[Wayne Fetterman]

And they did get. I mean, they.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I don't.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I don't know. I mean, there's another side to it that's also that, like, their songs are good. I think their songs are great. Their songs are good, and the album is really good. And it's fun to listen to. And I hadn't listened to it in a while. It was fun re. Listening to it over the last couple days as I prepped for this thing. But I don't know if their songs are great.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I wouldn't say they're great. I'd say it's a good listen. But I don't think.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Okay. And I apologize to the Guys, if they're listening to this podcast. But we like the record.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Guys, listen, Jerry, Skip with. Skip's dead, right? Yeah, yeah, Skip's dead. Jerry, Peter, Bob and Don.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah, Don, he's the drummer.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Not you, not you guys.

[Wayne Fetterman]

You guys.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No, no, no, no, no, no. Who's the bad guy again, Mark?

[Wayne Fetterman]

Mr. Kate.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, Mr. Case. You can go yourself, Mr. Kate. A million dollars. A million. Jesus Christ.

[Wayne Fetterman]

It was just, I think he was trying to negotiate with him, you know what I mean? And it was like, I can't believe. Don't even bother.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Why did he come out as high? Like Dr. Evil from Austin Powers. I'll do it for a billion trillion. It's like, all right, dude.

[Wayne Fetterman]

And they were, believe me, they were on Saturday night show, not the Saturday afternoon show at Monterey. They, you know, they were on first, which was maybe not the best spot, but still, you're on, you're on. So I don't know, you know, I. I describe them as a power hippie, power pop rock band. Like, they were really, really fun. And especially if I can compliment one guy in the band, I'd like to talk to Jerry Miller. He's the lead guitar player. Gary Miller's leads are just. It's a showcase really for him. He's just really incredible.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Hey, everybody. So you guys have probably heard me talk about how I've been in bands my whole life. I love writing songs and performing in front of crowds. Just like with comedy. As a musician, it can be kind of hard to cut through the noise and really stand out as an artist. I feel like half the music projects I've been in have ended just because we couldn't figure out the answer to that eternal question of how do we get people to hear us? But then again, that was before there was Distrokid. Distrokid is a digital music distribution service that brings your sound to the masses. Is. It's a one stop shop for getting your songs on itunes, Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube Music, Amazon, Deezer, Tidal, and many more. What's Deezer? I never even heard of Deezer. How many of them are there? I know all that. That's like the holy grail of streaming services though, and, and getting paid. They want to. We want to get you paid for your music. That's huge because a lot of bands go broke before they get big. But Distrokid collects earnings and payments and sends 100% of these earnings to artists minus banking fees and applicable taxes. And that's just one of the tons of benefits of using Distrokid. You can send big files to anyone with their instant Share feature. You can use the Hyper Follow feature to promote your release and get pre saves on your song. You can even create personal landing pages for yourself, your band, your brand and whatever you like. It has a free Spotify Canvas generator too, to generate your own Spotify canvas for your songs. And the Mixia feature instantly masters your tracks for higher quality audio. So if you're ready to bring your band to the next level, it's time to check out Distrokid. The Distrokid app is now available on iOS and Android. Go to the app or Play Store to download it. Listeners of this show can get 30% off their first year by going to distrokid.com VIP the 500. That's distrokid.com VIP the500 for 30% off your first year. Dig it. This time of year everyone talks about going dry, but at Athletic Brewing Co. We're skipping that because we prefer going Athletic, which isn't dry at all. From crisp goldens to hoppy IPAs and limited releases in between, you'll find something that fits your style. Every single non alcoholic brew is packed with flavor and the same craft experience you love. So yeah, you could call it dry, but there's really nothing dry about it. Find your new favorite near beer@athletic brewing.com Athletic Brewing Co. Fit for all times.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Oh, did we talk about the album cover yet?

[Josh Adam Myers]

I haven't even looked at it. No. What is the album cover? Hold on.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Oh, the album cover is very controversial. Why?

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's just. It's just the five of them sitting.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Okay, look at Don Stevenson. He's the drummer. He's holding the washboard.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Okay, I see it. Oh, he's giving the finger.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah, yeah. That's why it's controversial.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Why is he giving the finger?

[Wayne Fetterman]

I don't know.

[Josh Adam Myers]

This is like the. This is like the Billy Ripken face baseball card. This is the equivalent of the Billy Ripken face card.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah, yeah. So it is. So they had to airbrush out that finger. On some copies. There's. I don't know, is there a flag behind them or is it a red flag?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Like there's a red flag.

[Wayne Fetterman]

That's an American flag. That had to be recolored red and then people thought that meant communism, so then it was recolored black and then it went back to the original. I mean, it's just. I just. To tell you the truth. And again, to these guys, if you're listening, I feel like this Band was snake bit from the start.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Just bad juju like this. The album was recorded or they started. They decided. The diner where they decided to be a band was built on an Indian burial ground. Poltergeist.

[Wayne Fetterman]

One of those things. I just. How many things can go wrong on a. On a band that's so highly touted?

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, this. What other bands have. Have buffaloed the way that they buffaloed?

[Wayne Fetterman]

I don't know. I mean, I'd like to look at the. That top 500 albums, but this has got to be one of them. I mean, it's. I mean, a lot of bands are just like creative moment. Didn't we do. Oh, Lou Reed and Nico or something like that?

[Josh Adam Myers]

We haven't done that yet. No, we did. We did White Hot White Noise.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Oh, that's what it was.

[Josh Adam Myers]

We did that one.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah. Yeah. So they had a couple. I don't know.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But hold on. Wait, wait. Are you trying to say that they're the equivalent of the Velvet Underground? Because that's.

[Wayne Fetterman]

No, no, no. Because the Velvet Underground are extremely influential as well as capturing a moment of New York art scene downtown artsy. No, this is again, all I can say. I love what you said about the Indian burial ground. Or, you know, so like, it is just one after. I mean, how many bands. I mean, almost every band is breaking up all the time. Like, that's just the nature of these bands.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Sure.

[Wayne Fetterman]

But to have one guy go after another guy with an ax trying.

[Josh Adam Myers]

So. Yeah, so. So. So. I mean, because we listen the tracks. We go through the tracks. Who gives a. About the tracks?

[Wayne Fetterman]

You've.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You've done this enough. What. Tell us about.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Why isn't there a. A documentary about this? If this is so shit face crazy, then why aren't.

[Wayne Fetterman]

You know. Again, I don't know where the rights of these musics is. I don't know. Situation with Mr. Cates's offspring have it. I don't. You know, he was fired as the manager, but I don't know if he still had the rights to them. And they don't.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Judd, you and Judd, you guys are. You guys are kicking out docs. You're giving it. You're giving a doc to everybody.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I know, I have to say, but if you think about it, they're really like that San Francisco. If there anyone does a doc about the San Francisco go psychedelia psychedelic Scene of the 60s with Bill Graham and that the other guy, it was another Superfly Snooka. No, I can't think of his name.

[Josh Adam Myers]

He.

[Wayne Fetterman]

He's from Texas. He was the one that brought Janice Joplin to San Francisco. Anyway, about those two guys and the scene and like these ball. These old ballrooms that were recreated and re reimagined as just these dens of pot and images and music and then beads and, you know, hashish. It's just lsd. The whole. They would be part of it. They would definitely be part of it. But not like the Grateful Dead. You know, a mega. You know, Grateful Dead is, you know, one of the most iconic bands in this. Not like Jefferson Airplane or. Yeah. Steve Miller band or Santana or. Oh, who was I just thinking of? Who's out of that scene a little bit. Although not in the psychedelica, but played those ballrooms. Was. I just saw his documentary. Oh my God.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Jeff Buckley.

[Wayne Fetterman]

No. Black eye. Black eyes. Like soul. Oh my God. All right, I'll think about green now. Like a Wilson Pickett funk. Like a funk. Yes. There you go.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I was like thinking to myself.

[Wayne Fetterman]

What?

[Josh Adam Myers]

What? Yeah, yeah.

[Wayne Fetterman]

No, recently. I think Sly just recently passed away also.

[Josh Adam Myers]

He did. He did just pass away.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Guess what? All of those. Sly Stone. I mean, I guess Grateful Dead is the exception. But Sly Stone had you huge hits and they just weren't able to pull hits off of these records. And you know, and again, they weren't. It wasn't Hendrix, you know, it wasn't Joplin. It wasn't like, oh my God. This is a once in a lifetime talent. It's just like a really tight band. It kind of remind me a little of like the Eagles a little bit without the. The discipline. That's all I could. You know, the Eagles were also a multi guitar band or you know, they had finger picking. There's some country music in it. Maybe the later late. I don't know if Eagles is even right. Because Eagles are such a monster. Just monsters.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean there is. Yeah. They're as big as. You know. I mean they got. They got Steely Dan open for them at Madison Square Garden.

[Wayne Fetterman]

They do.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That's. Oh, yeah.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I just.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I saw that show.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Oh, I saw them at the Sphere. I told you, right? Oh God.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I would have.

[Wayne Fetterman]

What?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Not. Listen, I'm not gonna sit here. Yeah. How was it? First of all, let me say that.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Nine and a half out of ten. Like I think they're a perfect band to play the Sphere. And let me tell you why. Because they don't improvise one note of music.

[Josh Adam Myers]

They don't move. It is literally move.

[Wayne Fetterman]

It is literally like dropping a needle onto the CD or whatever the Expression is. And letting it. And it's exactly like that. Unfortunately, there's a lot of controversy now about Don Henley maybe lip syncing some of his vocals, but I didn't. I didn't care at all. It was. So they can sync up those videos to the songs, like, to the beat, to the microsecond. And it is. It was extremely entertaining.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I love that. Yeah, I, I just, you know, I think it's like a band like, that would be good for the sphere because you, you don't need to look at the band who's just sitting there. You can look at the ceiling and, and just be like, oh. And it's great music too. It's like, you could take mushrooms and it's not, like, scary. It's, like, good. It's, like, good. I mean, because that was the thing. Morty was the one. I was like, should I go see him? And he's like, oh, my God, yes. He goes, watch what happens. You'll go there and even if you think you don't know a song, you don't know enough of their song. You'll hear a song. I know that. I know that. I know you know all of it. Not like Moby Grape, where I'd go to the show and be like, I don't know any of this because somebody. Because. Sounds like Mark Spitz, their manager or Cats.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Kate is how you pronounce Mark K. Yeah, I know. I, I, hopefully he's not Jewish, but I have a hunch he.

[Josh Adam Myers]

He's 100% Jewish. Come on, dude. What are you talking about? You know, they didn't have a Jew. They would have been. They would have been successful. He was. He was one of the bad ones. He was one of the bad ones. He was. He was one of the ones that, that the far right talks about. Like the Nazi. Yeah, yeah, the Nazi. The Nazi. Jews, like, they love, they love this kind of Jew because it fills every stereotype ever. That's what they love. So.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Dude, this is crazy.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I just trying to think, like, what was Columbia thinking releasing five singles the same day as the album? Like, that was just some stupidity.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Is there, like, is there.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Beatles did have five singles as the top five songs, but those were. Didn't come out the same day.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No, it's just. It really is. It really is odd. I don't.

[Wayne Fetterman]

It is odd. It is fun talking about them, though.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, this is.

[Wayne Fetterman]

This is.

[Josh Adam Myers]

This is what you. You wish for on the 500, man. This is the kind of. It's not just the Record's fine. Ah, let's talk about this song. Let's talk about that song. This is what's more interesting about this band is why the. Are they on? This is. Because it's not. It's not Big Star, where you're like, okay, they're on here. And. Okay, I. They just didn't catch. Like. They just didn't catch. They. They didn't do anything wrong, per se. They just didn't catch. But what they did do was influence a shitload of people. REM And. And I mean, Jeff Buckley, whatever. You can go on and on and on. The Replacements, you could go on and on about. You know, about what they did. This is the. This is like. This is a mystery band. This is like.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I think. I think. What do you call. I think. Springsteen covers Omaha Live. Everyone every once in a while does one of their songs. And I think once in a while you hear like, hey, Grandma pops up on soundtrack or something of a movie. That's to me, their most catchy song. That shuffle blues thing that gets. Kicks off the album. But no, for the most part, no, it's. And then. And that they're based on a joke. Like the band is based on the punchline of a kid's joke.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It really is. Hold on, I'm trying to ask the Internet.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah. What does the Internet say? What is.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Hold on, I'm trying to. Going nuts. I'm trying to. I'm just asking the Internet a question so I can find out.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Okay.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Skip Spence didn't lose his mind all at once. It was a slow collision of untreated mental illness. Heavy psychedelic drug use. Yep. Sid Barrett, whose birthday was just two days ago or yesterday, maybe. Sudden fame pressure. There you go. We've all done that. We all.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I haven't. I haven't experienced sudden fame pressure, but I would love to someday see how that affects me mentally. Say it again. Sudden fame pressure.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Sudden fame pressure.

[Wayne Fetterman]

That in the dsm.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Paranoia. But the warning signs. It says. But it says. The warning signs were very public and very scary. Most biographers and bandmates agree Skip Spence was likely suffering from schizophrenia. Schizoaffective disorder.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Schizophrenia.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Skips over skips. They call it schizophrenia. Yeah, exacerbated, like I said, from the la. From the LSD use. It probably. It just happened to a friend. Dude, this happened. This happened to a friend. Where we were. She had. Bye Bye. She was borderline or bipolar, and then she was doing a bunch of Molly and it threw her into a psychosis. She had a full breakdown. So he said early signs before the break were increased paranoia. This is what people noticed. Withdraw in silence, long stretches, sudden manic, grandiose behavior. We're gonna be the biggest band. We should release five singles. Five?

[Wayne Fetterman]

How much is two? How about two?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Five. Okay. I mean, he's. He's really paranoid about it.

[Wayne Fetterman]

We release two, trying to undermine us.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And then he said the belief that people are plotting against him. He was right.

[Wayne Fetterman]

He was right.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Mark Spitz.

[Wayne Fetterman]

We're calling him Mark Spitz.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I love it. Who's Mark?

[Wayne Fetterman]

Manager. Mark Spitz.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, he's the. He's the. He's the pool guy, right? Yeah. Yes.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Okay.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Okay. I know. Bumps close. All right. Bandmate said that he drift between being sweet and gentle and then convinced some was. Was out to get him. Mark Spitz, the ax incident. Here we go. All right. Let's get to the Nitty Gritty. So this is something. This is when you realize something is very wrong. I love that. The Internet.

[Wayne Fetterman]

This was a little. Yeah, it was. It didn't happen all at once. There were little indications. One of them was he took an ax to his bandmate, but. And then it was paranoid. Sometimes he was silent.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Sometimes he would draw. You would isolate a little isolated incidents. That's where they really figured it out, the isolation. But the acts, they were like typical. Skip seems quiet.

[Wayne Fetterman]

He seems quiet.

[Josh Adam Myers]

He says. Running at him. You know, all jamming and no play make Skip bad boy. What is it? All right. While Moby Grave was recording the second follow up. So that, by the way, the name.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Of that album is called wow. Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Wow. Grape Jam. Yeah. Also known as Grape Jam. No, no, no.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Grape Jam is another. If I'm not mistaken, it was a double. It was. Wow was the album. And Grape Jam was them live.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Perfect.

[Wayne Fetterman]

You gotta. I believe that's how it worked.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Skip became convinced the producer. David Robinson. Yes.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Played for Navy Center. Won 3, 2 championships with the Spurs. David Robinson.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yep.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Him and hall of fame top 75. Yeah. That's what they used to call David Robinson because he used to go a bunch of massage parlors while he was studying overseas at the Navy. He. He's convinced that David Robinson was part of a conspiracy. One night he showed up at the producer's house with a fire ax. It didn't hurt anyone, but the intent was serious enough that police were called. Skip was arrested and he was committed. Oh, my God. Could it. Could he be committed to a bigger. A bigger psychiatric ward? Bellevue Hospital.

[Wayne Fetterman]

That's the. Bellevue, is the Bellevue of mental hospitals.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's The Michael Jordan. It's the Bellevue. It is the David Robinson, the Michael Jordan. And that was the breaking point. No more. And then there's no more eccentric, you know, genius excuses after that. He's diagnosed, spent time there, never truly stabilize. And that is where it was. All fell apart soon after. Band mates, devastated. Yeah, dude, it's. It's like, you know.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Oh, there's one other story I forgot to tell you.

[Josh Adam Myers]

What do you got?

[Wayne Fetterman]

Columbia Records comes out to San Francisco to the Avalon Ballroom for their big record release party and have a bunch of orchids that are dropping from the ceiling. And they hand out bottle of wines with the label Moby Grape on them. No corkscrews, because believe it or not, the Avalon did not allow drinking, even though there was crazy drug use in there. But when they dropped the orchids, everyone started slipping on the ground as they were playing the records. And it was supposedly a scene. And then later that night, three of the band members were arrested for consorting with minors. That means fooling around with young girls. Oh, good God, Moby Grape.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And. Which is so funny because Jerry Lee Lewis. I mean, go yourself, dude, like Jimmy Page. They're creeps. They're all creeps.

[Wayne Fetterman]

They're weirdos. Isn't there a song about them? They don't belong here.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, I got it. Okay.

[Wayne Fetterman]

So anyway, so. Yes, that was. That's too bad. That is too bad. I would like to have seen what that band could have done.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But did anybody go on to do anything?

[Wayne Fetterman]

No, they keep reuniting every few years and doing. You know, because they have a fan base of people, you know, older hippie guys and young rockers who are into vinyl. They love these guys. They're good. They're good musicians. They could sing, they could play. It wasn't like a bunch of burnout.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah. And I mean, the thing is, though, it's like, Skip. So Skip died in 99 at 52.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah. He has his older son, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. They're all, you know, this. This generation. Go ahead, Skip.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Dude, If I'm wrong, may. May I be stricken down. It looks like he played. Yeah, dude, he played. He was in the band the Other side before Marty Balin. Balin, yeah. Recruited him to be the drummer for Jefferson Airplane.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah, this is before. Yeah, he was. Yeah, yeah, he's from Canada, if I'm not mistaken.

[Josh Adam Myers]

He is. He's from Canada. He is from Canada. Played on this. On Serious Surrealistic Pillow, which is the record that we did, if I'm not mistaken, on the podcast look me. Just look at. Just double check this math. Yeah, dude, he was. He was. Oh, no. He's only the drums on Don't Slip Away Before. I guess Spencer Dryden was the main guy. But yeah, dude, this guy.

[Wayne Fetterman]

An airplane is what you're talking about.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Jefferson Airplane. He also played with. It looks like Quicksilver Messenger Service briefly.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I did see that. But again, Quicksilver, as we. When we went deep into that band, there was so many members of that band. It was. It was more like an amoeba that was constantly changing shape and sure. Adding new particles to it. It was. Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Interesting.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yes. He was in Quicksilver. He definitely. Definitely. Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And. And so. Yeah, it just looks like he lost his. And just. What it is.

[Wayne Fetterman]

It is.

[Josh Adam Myers]

What is. But, dude, Omaha, like, I just saw this. Omaha is Rolling Stone magazine. 100 Greatest Guitar Rock songs of all time. Yeah.

[Wayne Fetterman]

And that's mainly Jerry. Yeah. Yes. It's. They had great interplay between the guitar.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It would kind of remind Jerry and Peter. Yeah, It's. Yep. Too.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yep, yep, yep.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Two and a quarter. I would call it two and a quarter. Red hot minutes.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I love how short their songs are. They're just like. They get in, they get out. I do like Omaha again. That was their biggest. You know, I got the 88, so. And people still like that song. So it's not like they're ignored. It's not like this is a completely ignored band. But they are maybe one of the biggest, if not on this list of the what ifs kind of cautionary tale. It's everything what you said at the beginning.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Because I'll quote this and I'll agree with any of this. I would say this is a. This is not mine. This is Bill Paris of Brooklyn Vegan in 2017. Said this album, it's full of breezy jams. Yep, yep. Killer harmonies, 100 and then impeccable musicianship and a whole bunch of instant classics. That the last part, you know, I mean, right. It's a little.

[Wayne Fetterman]

What was it? What was the magazine he's writing for? Vegan Magazine.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You don't know about Brooklyn Vegan?

[Wayne Fetterman]

Tell me about it. Is that.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I just know it's been Instagram account that I follow sometimes. And they'll be like, you know, this guy was performing in Brooklyn or this is going down here. It's a music thing. Yeah, it's like a one online music blog.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Because I used to read Staten Island Gluten magazine for years.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Which is so funny because I read. I read Stanford, Connecticut Celiac.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. They got some good writers. They got some good writers.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And then I have. I listened to. To Bethesda. Marilyn Gerd occurred.

[Wayne Fetterman]

This is called Comedy Math. You just plug in, take from here.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Right there. You know what you're doing. It's like. It's like Tom Cruise and in Minority Report. All right, skip that. Get rid of that. There it is. Gerd put that there. And they need a place. Bethesda. All right, here we go. What's a funny name? Bethesda. Chevy Chase would have been funnier. Chevy Chase. Yeah, I know Chevy Chase. All right. Anything else we need to talk about? Oh, what's your. I want to get this from you. What's your favorite movie of the year that you've seen?

[Wayne Fetterman]

Well, of this last season of the Oscar season, let me just say that I. There's a little movie that's nominated for Independent Spirit Award, Best Picture, and it's slightly.

[Josh Adam Myers]

What is it? I, I.

[Wayne Fetterman]

It's called the Plague.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I saw it. I saw it two years ago. How did you see it?

[Wayne Fetterman]

How'd you see it?

[Josh Adam Myers]

I saw it at a theater in Milwaukee. Oh, the amc. I loved it. Big J. And the people I was with did not like it. I loved it. I, I thought it was so. Yeah, I. So I, I thought the, the, the. The pacing and I thought the filmmaking and I thought the director. I thought the editing. I thought the acting was phenomenal. Everything.

[Wayne Fetterman]

What about the bully?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, the missing scene, dude. The acting, dude. The three actors. The. The main guy. Yeah. Then the bully. The bully stole the movie. He was so charismatic. He was so charismatic.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Argument. That. That is the best bully ever portrayed on film. Better than even Kiefer Sutherland and Stand By Me, I feel like, because he.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Here's my argument. And again, this is a movie no one knows about except the two of us, but is that. He's like the Hans Gruber of bullies in that usually the bad guy is.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Like a bad guy. You hate him.

[Wayne Fetterman]

He's a thing. He's got a punchable face. He's, you know, so likable. This guy's charmed. The kid was charming. He was smiling. He was smart. He was. And he was an evil genius. I loved it.

[Josh Adam Myers]

He was, like, arguing with the teacher that time, and he was like. And everything he said was right. You're like, the kid's right.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Like, it was like he ran circles around Joel Edgerton. Oh, my God. All right, so they didn't like it. Okay. Interesting. That's my favorite one of the thing even you Know, I liked one battle after another and I. Sure, you know, sinners. And the other one with the, you know. But nothing's like. There's been no movie that's blown me away this year.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, I mean, one. Well, I, well, the movie that blew me away is Weapons.

[Wayne Fetterman]

That was the other one I was think, trying to think of. But even Weapons, I, I. Weapons should be called the worst police department in America. Like there's one. You're not going to investigate the one place where.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Well, they did, they did. But she sent them off. But why, you're saying, why would they go back? Like, I guess that, I guess there.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Was no footage of any of those kids walking to that house.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I know. With all the cameras and stuff. There were. Yes, there was a lot of, there's a lot of plot.

[Wayne Fetterman]

No, I liked it. I like the movie.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Minor suspension of disbelief.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But and not to ruin the movie if you've never seen it, because I saw it. If I would have seen that in the theater, because I was in Europe when that came out. If I would have seen that. That's my favorite movie of the year. That's my favorite movie. Weapons was my, it's not the best movie, but it's my favorite. And if I would have seen that in the theater when that ending happened, I would have stood up and cheered. I would have, I would have been like. Because I love, I love that director. I think, I think Barbarian was incredible. I think Weapons was amazing.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I liked it. I liked Weapons.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, Avatar was good too. I don't give a fuck.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I can't get into those movies.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Super entertaining, always great IMAX 3D, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I liked, I did like. And I said to Big J and them, because they were like, they were just like. I was like, what do you give it out of 10? And they were like a two. And I was like, how would you give that a two? I was like, if you take the acting, the filmmaking, the pacing. I had no idea what was gonna happen. The entire movie. The ending, which really made me, I mean it was, I didn't know if I, if I liked the ending as.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Much as I was just not great. It's not great. You're talking about the plague.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Right, the plague. I accepted the ending, by the way.

[Wayne Fetterman]

This is a first time filmmaker, AFI student. Like he, Great job.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I think, I think he's got it. I think I'm excited to see the next thing he makes. It's like Ari Aster, kind of.

[Wayne Fetterman]

He's making Mickey Madison's next movie, Mikey Madison. She won the Oscar last year for.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I know who that is. I've seen everything. I've seen. I've seen Marty Supreme.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I liked Marty Supreme. Again, all of these are very well made movies. They just didn't blow me away. But I might be at the point my life where I've seen too many movies. I'm just like. It's hard. I've been like, been worn down by it. Okay, you want to rate these songs? Been looking up this cat. The, the, the guy, the manager, this G O. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a story and a half. I don't know, it's just like, it's reading like his, his stuff. I know it looks like his name would be Cats, but apparently it's Kate's. Yeah, but it looks like it should be Cats. It could. Should be pictures of him too. Like this. Now I haven't seen. What is he? Oh, yeah. I'm like. I was like. Well, you guys were talking. I was just like. I was like, let' him up. You know what? You.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You know what? I. I ordered it from China and.

[Wayne Fetterman]

It should, it should be.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It says it's arriving today. You know, I get all those jerseys. Yeah, I got a Len Bias Maryland jersey arriving today. Yeah. Because I always like to buy like all Maryland stuff, you know, or like D.C. so I, I've got like a. I got a Mutombo Georgetown away. I've got a Iverson home Georgetown jersey. I've got a bunch of stuff. Or I got a Jordan blue jersey. I don't have any of their new ones, but I'm hoping if they get Trey Young in this trade, then I think I'm gonna buy a Trey Young jersey. Even though he's only going to be here for like one season probably.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I think it'll be two. I think it'll be too this maybe.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Dude, we're playing great right now, dude.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Couple young studs. Yeah, we.

[Josh Adam Myers]

We're 6 and 4 in the last 10 and we're 9 and 10 in the last 20. Which. It's just, it's crazy because I'm. Now I'm starting to get into it where I'm like, all right, we're into this and listen, are we going to make the playoffs? No. But is it like just as long as it's not just getting blown out and, and we're, you know, they're for re.

[Wayne Fetterman]

They are not a bottom feeder at all this year. They're. They got some young studs over there.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Well, you got it you can't. You can't chunk it anymore. You can't throw the whole season. You can't throw the season anymore because it doesn't make a difference because.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Right, right, right.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Dallas is going to get the number one pick whoever up the NBA is going to rig it to give the team that got screwed because I'm trying.

[Wayne Fetterman]

To remember the name of that girl who played for University in Maryland. There was a Jewish girl, Shay. Oh, it's just.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Hold on. I know about. I know the guy. You mean. You mean the Jewish guy that, that got. He eventually went to my. He went to Towson because. He eventually went to Towson because he wouldn't play on Fridays.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah, no, I'm talking Jewish Jordan, they called him. Yeah, no, I'm not talking about that. But I mean the. The Maryland boys men won with that.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Juan Dixon. Steve.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Juan Dixon with Juan Dixon, right. And that incredible steel. One of the greatest I've ever seen in NCAA history. But the women also won it with. Oh, I can't remember those two girls. One of them, one still was playing in the WNBA a couple years ago. That's really sad. But there was one girl who was from Shea Shay something was her name. She was from Israel and her dream is to play American wnba. And she went to University of Maryland and was on that championship team. And I remember her parents were told that in order to play at college level, she's going to have to play high school in the United States. And she ended up going to a high school called Christ the King. That is the name of the high school. It's a private school. And she ended up going to. Crazy. I was like, jewish girl of Christ the King. That is the.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That's hilarious.

[Wayne Fetterman]

And then she ended up playing on Maryland. She was on that team. Shea. I can't think of her name. And you should get to her jersey or the. The, you know, the star. The star from that team. Maryland's had some good teams.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, they have, they have. I mean, I'm not. Dude, it's weird. I just. I've kind of fallen out of college basketball until the NCAA tournament. It sucks, man. I used to be so into it. I used to be such a Temple Owls fan because of my dad and. And then Maryland. I didn't go to Maryland. I went to Towson. So I was. I was like in, but I was out. And I had friends that went to Maryland and I still root for him. I have friends that. That are. Are still. I'm on a text chain with that. They're all going to the games, and they still give a. I just like the jerseys. I love jerseys, you know? Dude, I just bought in. I was in Milwaukee this weekend, and I went vintage shopping like I always do, and I found. What did I find? I found. Oh, I found a Larry Johnson, Charlotte Hornets purple. So I guess. I guess Grandmama. And then I got it. I got a Shaquille o', Neal, Orlando. I would never wear a Shaq. I would never wear a Lakers jersey ever, ever, ever.

[Wayne Fetterman]

My favorite is when Chick Hearn would call him Shaq o'. Neal. It's like. No, it's either Shaq or Shaquille o'. Neal. It can't be Shaq.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, it's Shaq. Who calls him Shaq o'? Neill. It's like Josh Adam Myers. It's weird.

[Wayne Fetterman]

It's like Shack o'. Neill.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Shack o'. Neill.

[Wayne Fetterman]

It's funny. Anyway. All right, let's do the breakdown. Let's do it.

[Josh Adam Myers]

So, by the way, Alex.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I think that's his name. Alex is. Dude the engineer on this.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, yeah. Alex, come here. Come back in.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah, he said that he was looking up a little of Mr. Katz while we were talking. What do you got for us? What do you got for us?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, what do you got?

[Wayne Fetterman]

This guy's. He's just. He's a nightmare. I got these wild pictures of him, too. Let me see if I can pull it back up again. Hold on a second.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Who is this? This is Mark Spitz.

[Wayne Fetterman]

This is. This is him. This is. This is the guy.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Let me see it. Can you zoom in? Because right now it just looks like an amalgamation of, like, nine people. It looks like what China did to the movie together.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Oh, he's holding up the album. Yeah, there he is. Okay. Oh, yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

All right, zoom in. Is that Fu Manchu? He looks like from this.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Really.

[Josh Adam Myers]

From this far away. Can I say this? From this far away, he looks like. It looks like what I. Oh, never mind. I was gonna say, it looks like what Steven Seagal has kind of turned into.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, yeah. He looks like a. He looks like a Shylock Jew. A gypsy. Look, how can I rip these boys off?

[Wayne Fetterman]

So sad.

[Josh Adam Myers]

What else you got? What else you got, Alex?

[Wayne Fetterman]

It seems. It seems they were. They were at least able to get back the rights to their name. What about them? What about more important than the name? It's a little bit, because. Because of the. You know, there's. There's Music rights are complicated, right? You got your. Like, you got your writing rights, you got your publishing rights. Mastering rights and all this stuff. So, like, the California Superior Court apparently gave them their. Their rights back, but he contested it to. I mean, up until his death, apparently. And. And so they've never.

[Josh Adam Myers]

They.

[Wayne Fetterman]

They still can't really, like, release it. I don't know if his. If he's got offspring that are continuing the legal fight now that he's dead, but as of 2006, they technically have the rights to their songs, but it's that he's killing the courts still in courts. The Fields court held it up, apparently. The Fields court held it up, and so that they Technically, according to the courts, they own their music. But he still made it a. He still made it a and a half for them to.

[Josh Adam Myers]

So, you know, this reminds me. What?

[Wayne Fetterman]

No, I'm sorry, I thought you're about.

[Josh Adam Myers]

To say, I'm getting out.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I'm sorry. No, I'm sorry.

[Josh Adam Myers]

The. This reminds me of. This reminds me. You know, it reminds me. It reminds me of Richard Ashcroft from the Verve. And that song, Bittersweet Symphony, is that. Is that. They did, you know, use a little bit of the Rolling Stone song and something else, too. And then one of the managers for the Rolling Stones, or a guy, he was the one that held it up for years where the Stones were like, dude, it's your song. And eventually that guy died, and then finally he. He got everything back and he got. He can get paid for the song now, but it's already past the point where it, like, was as popular as.

[Wayne Fetterman]

But I.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But I'll say this, maybe I think he made some money during this Oasis tour because. Because that definitely put a lot of attention on them. What do we got? Let's see. So. Hey, Grandma, that's my.

[Wayne Fetterman]

That might be my favorite cut on the album. On the album.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Which is. It's. It's a. It's the politest. I wrote the politest rebellion imaginable.

[Wayne Fetterman]

It's like, hey, you think it's gonna be about the cops? It's like, yeah, Grandma.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Like, softest way to say you're wrong. Right?

[Wayne Fetterman]

Right. We're going after the man. Grandma. Grandma, I know it's weird, but I really.

[Josh Adam Myers]

This is you. This is you. This is politeness as camouflage for judgment. Yeah. This is the. Hey, Fetterman. Respectfully, I. I disagree with every adult I've ever met.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Right.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Good song.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah. You know, I'd say. I'd say very good song.

[Wayne Fetterman]

One of the A sides of the.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Five singles, one of the 19 singles released on the day. The day it Was released right as.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Everyone'S listening to sergeant Peppers over and over again. They put out hey Grandma.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah. And Mr. Blues was just a straight blues track.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah, that's the bass player. Yeah, but.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But it also felt, you know, it's. It just. If this is a psychedelic error, it doesn't feel like it. It fit in.

[Wayne Fetterman]

That's what I'm saying. They're not really a psychedelic band.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Fall on you. Pretty aggressive, in my opinion. This is confrontational, sexual. Let me see what else I got about it. What do I got? Hey grandma. Just like that. Hell, hold on. Here we go. Okay, my nose is getting stuffed up. Which one are we talking about? We're talking about Mr. Blues.

[Wayne Fetterman]

No, we were past following you. Yeah. Thirteen.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I don't like that. Hold on. What did I. Where did I write all this about? Hold on.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Here.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I might be it. Oh, hold on. Fall on you Calm. I said I wrote calm. Calm. Confidence. I don't know what. Why I wrote that. Let me see. I think I wrote some other. What do you think?

[Wayne Fetterman]

I. You know, there's other songs. I mean, I thought we were just gonna do the ones you make out to the ones you can.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, you want to do. Oh, okay. I thought we were going song by song.

[Wayne Fetterman]

We don't have to do that.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Okay. Well, you know, I would say this if this to sum this up. Fallen you is a song has the confidence of a guy who's not famous but yet already. But he's already annoyed. He's not famous yet, but he's already annoyed. Yep. Not arrogant. Yeah. Sounds like someone you know who's right, but they're just tired of explaining it. Ah, that's you, Wayne. Quiet confidence and loud insecurity.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Oh, my God.

[Josh Adam Myers]

All right, you want to do the finals?

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah, let's do the final.

[Josh Adam Myers]

We went way past your go time. You're an hour. Once an hour hits, you're like. You're like, get me the off this show. All right. I think you already said it. Favorite song on. Why. Why is that it? Why do you think?

[Wayne Fetterman]

I just think it's a real. I just think it sums up the band perfectly. The interplay between the guitars is. Is just everything. The, you know, the vocal harmonies, it's hard hitting. It's a shuffle blues. It's like. It's just great. It's just like. Oh. Again, I don't like this way. Particularly love the way this album is recorded sonically, but it's really. I just. I love it. That's. That's. Yeah. And I like A number of songs on this album. Yeah. It's not the biggest hit off the album. Isn't it at all?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Did you skip over anything?

[Wayne Fetterman]

Oh, yeah. Let me look at what I. Maybe Sitting by the Window. I didn't think was a great song.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Sitting by the Window. You ever listen, dude, you know how to play Life on Mars on piano? Is it hard?

[Wayne Fetterman]

No, it's not that hard.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I'm trying to figure it out. Right. I really want to play it. Anything you skip over.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Well, I mean, no, because it's like this is the album of the thing. If. I mean, I guess if I was going to skip over a song besides the one that I don't like sitting by the window, maybe someday There's a song called Someday, which was the B side of Omaha, their biggest hit. I don't love that song.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Interesting record. Would you neck to this?

[Wayne Fetterman]

No question. 805. 805 is beautiful.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, I could see that.

[Wayne Fetterman]

That's when. Yeah, that's when she's leaving. 805. It's really good, this.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, listen, it's not a bad record. No, I don't care what anybody says.

[Wayne Fetterman]

It's not. Look how high. Look how many great albums are below this.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I know, I know. That's insane about it. That's insane.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

So then. So then you wanna. You wanna put the stamp of approval of why this. Why we're talking about this, why someone should listen to it. How do you sum it up? Like all that jazz?

[Wayne Fetterman]

Well, look, it's. It's really curious. It's not like Quicksilver Messenger Service, which was very much a psychedelic band of that era in that time at the Fillmore doing these shows. They were like this. I guess it's a sort of a. I hate to use the word tragedy, because it's not a tragedy. You're in so many bands never even get to, you know, record or anything. And they recorded a lot and everyone knows their name and they're on the rolling Stones top 500 albums on both lists. And they're also. One of their songs is the top song, top 100 guitar song. So it's not like they're. It's just a. It's the great. What could have Been banned, I think, of the late 60s. No question.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I know. What could have Been, man. What could have Been. I. I don't. I don't know. You know, dude doesn't lose his mind and they don't have the guy that rips him off. And they don't. And they don't release five singles at.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Once and they don't flip off on the album cover and they don't fool around with teenagers at the release party. And if they don't, I mean.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, what a sits, dude.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah. Then maybe they would have. Would have kicked in.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, my Lord.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Yeah. And maybe if they didn't have a manager that stole their name. It's literally like. It's almost like the devil, you know what I mean? Where it's like somebody holds your soul, like, I'm taking your name. It's like a Disney thing. Like, oh, God, you don't even have your name anymore.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That's.

[Wayne Fetterman]

That's my take. What is your take on it?

[Josh Adam Myers]

How do I. How do I sum this up? Let me see. How do I sum this up? You know, I. Like I said. I think I said at the beginning, this is the record of. Of. Wait, who is this? It's like, wait, what happened to these guys? It's just. This is a. This is everything you said. This is a. How do you. It's like, how do you. It's like.

[Wayne Fetterman]

What did you. I like what you said earlier. Maybe this was band was formed over the Indian burial ground.

[Josh Adam Myers]

As I said, they. They decided to be a band at a. At a diner that was built over an Indian burial ground. And it just. It was like, yep, you guys want to do it? And then the ghost just latched on to him.

[Wayne Fetterman]

The spirits are like, not today, guys. Not today.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, this is. This is what happens when. When you'd say five extremely talented, sane people show up with. With no mental health problems and a great manager, zero ego. A. A label that really gets them. It has incredible, huge label.

[Wayne Fetterman]

This isn't some knockoff little. This isn't King Records. This is Columbia. It's one of the oldest legacy music labels in the history of music.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, I think, I think, I think here. You know what I think it is? I think it is. I think the tragedy of this record isn't that it failed. It's that the. The tragedy is that it's actually worked perfectly. It's just the world didn't know what to do with it, man.

[Wayne Fetterman]

It was. It was just one. You know, it was just. It was just one comic misadventure after another or tragic, however you want to.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Say.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Gets to the point where it becomes comic after a while.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, it's. Yeah, dude, this is. This is. This album is all talent, no marketing and a nervous system.

[Wayne Fetterman]

And maybe the fact that they were named after a joke. Like, although Led Zeppelin. Led Zeppelin was named after, like, someone who's like, oh, that band will go over like a lead balloon. They're like, well, we're going to call ourselves Led Zeppelin.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's. Hang on. I'm trying to see if I can. I keep. I keep trying to find. Hold on. Yeah, I guess. I mean, it's. It's. This is. This is what proves when success and greatness are truly two completely different things. You know what I mean? It's. It's really. You can't.

[Wayne Fetterman]

But there is a record of them. Like, this record does capture them. And that's not that. That's nothing to be scoffed at. And they're still being thought about. You know, we're talking about them. We're talking about them. So it's like. It's like, you think of all the bands of all. Through all the years.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's.

[Wayne Fetterman]

I don't know why I'm making it a great tragedy. It's just a great what if? I guess. I don't know.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Like, I. I listen, I think it's. I think it's an incredible tragedy. I think there needs to be a doc about. I think more people need to know about it. And I think this is one of the most fun, factual episodes we've ever done. You know what I mean? So I reached out to. I said to Judd, too. I go, yo, do you want to do Janis Joplin with me and Fetty? So I. I would have you on, too, just to be the mustard cutter.

[Wayne Fetterman]

All right.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Why not?

[Wayne Fetterman]

No, it would be good. It would be good.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Then that would be funny, because then people will listen to this episode the next week because you won't be labeled on that one. It will be. Judd will be doing all the heavy lifting. You'll just be there just to be like, hey, Fetty, he's the guy. And then they'll listen to this episode, and then they'll be like, oh, this is where it happened. Yep. Promote away. You. You mentioned it. Sundance Film Festival. Yeah. Maria Bamford. Stanford. Guys come. Respect, check. Follow him.

[Wayne Fetterman]

But. And especially Mel Brooks on HBO, 22 January. HBO. Max.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yes. Oh, I can't wait to watch that. Cannot wait. We'll promote the fetty. You're the man. Thanks again.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Thanks, brother. All right.

[Josh Adam Myers]

What I tell you? What did I tell you? Fetty Wap on Instagram at Wayne Federman. His website is waynefetterman.com and for all things Wayne, like I said, go to that website. Also, don't forget Maria Bamford, paralyzed by hope. The Maria Bamford Story. It's out now and on the 22nd of January, Mel Brooks, the 99 year old man on HBO Max for new music, Distrokid has brought us Le Risk by King Gizzard and the Lizard wizard because they're inspired by Moby Grape from 67. You can find links to the music on our website the 500podcast.com and if you weren't a band, we're directly send your song next week it's Run DMC Week as we go deep into Raising Hell from 1986. That's the first album my parents ever bought me, so it's gonna be a goodie. Dig it. Thanks for tuning in guys. Give us something to feel the blood there's nothing quite like digging Great for fun it gets my body ringing like a bell Cause I'm a recall of a good inhale. All right. No heart, no tick Weakest piss no.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Risk, no fire, no flame I'm always feeling the same the risk it's sis at the tip of my tiny.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Style, no ease I'm a pathetic forgotten se.

[Josh Adam Myers]

All right.

[Wayne Fetterman]

The rest.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Let'S rise.

[Wayne Fetterman]

The rest.

[Josh Adam Myers]

The ride.

[Wayne Fetterman]

The rest Bedtime the rip.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Okay, let's ride. Hello Evocanie.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Where softest souls do sleep in the hush of morning's glow I rest Not I why can I just go for the rest?

[Josh Adam Myers]

My views for its focus I depend Nose dive into the ocean to danger a ship and transcend this world it spins too slow this tempo paints my world in grave My heart cannot be fast enough the risk is technical One life one life one chance One chance Place the moment in your head Adrenaline My dearest friend it's you and me and TN. The 500 keeping it please see for the fleece nation.

[Wayne Fetterman]

On the 500.

[Josh Adam Myers]

The 500 foreign it's okay not to be perfect with finances. Experian is your big financial friend and here to help. Did you know you can get matched with credit cards on the app? Some cards are labeled no Ding Decline, which means if you're not approved, they won't hurt your credit scores. Download the Experian app for free today. Applying for no Ding decline cards won't hurt your credit scores if you aren't initially appropriate, initial approval will result in a hard inquiry which may impact your credit scores.

[Wayne Fetterman]

Experian from taco night in Tulum to Sushi in Tokyo, make every bite rewarding with gold from Amex. Wherever you dine four times membership rewards points at restaurants worldwide are piling up. Learn [e-mail] Explore Gold terms and points cap apply.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Next chapter Podcast.