← The 500 with Josh Adam Meyers
The 500 with Josh Adam Meyers
129 - Talking Heads - Remain In Light - Greg Proops
01:47:47
Greg Proops makes his return to The 500 to discuss the most influential album from the Talking Heads' catalog.
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Next Chapter Podcasts.
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Think your lashes have hit their limit? Discover limitless length and full volume with Maybelline Sky High Mascara. The Flextower Brush bends to volumize and extend every single lash from root to tip and the lightweight bamboo infused formula makes lashes feel weightless. Now in eight bold shades so you can take your lashes to new heights every day. Visit maybelline.com to shop Sky High Mascara now. This show is brought to you by Distrokid. Bring your music to the masses. The 500 the 500 JM been walking us down through that 2012 edition so it ain't nothing to you. Hundreds more to go. In need of a friend the king of peace for angelo Talking the 500 until the end Talking the 500 until the end with my man JM on the 500 Talking the 500 until the end Letting the things go fine Let the water holding up Letting the things go fine Water flowing up the crop into the blue. That is once in a lifetime is by Talking heads from the 1980 record remaining light. It's number one 29 out of 500 on the 500. What is up Felicie Armicas Fleecycus Armacus this is Josh Adam Myers. I am your faithful host and I am leading you through Rolling Stone magazines list of the 500 greatest albums from 5Honey down to 1E. This weekend I am at Mohegan sun at Comics. I'm doing Thursday through Saturday and then I'm closing out the year opening for Big J Okerson in Milwaukee at the Improv. Just because I need something to do I Didn't get booked this week. This.
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B
I didn't get booked.
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A
I didn't get booked. But, man, you know, as we're getting closer to the end of the year, I want to thank everybody for coming out, all the shows, showing me the love. The people that come up and say they listen to the podcast, man, you guys are everything. So come out if you're in Connecticut this weekend. Comics 5 shows, the 18th through the 20th, and. And then I'll be with Big J. I'm not doing much with Big J. I'm just going. I'm just really coming for the hang. Coming with a hang. But we deserve that, man. We deserve to have a good time, everybody. I hope you guys have a great Christmas coming up. We've got an episode, I think before that, obviously. Actually, it might be the day before. It might be. Might be on Christmas Eve. Did we. Did we book a big guest? We might have. I don't know. It's been tough. I'm traveling. I'm in la. If this sounds weird, I'm doing this on voice notes because I didn't bring a recorder. We did Shimmy last night at the Comedy Store, and it's magical, man. Thank you, Bill, David, Andrew and Bobby and Harlan for all doing it. And Justine for always helping me run it. And for Evan from Evan's Smokehouse for the incredible barbecue meth syndicate. Eric and Rebecca, we love you to death. Rob from. Bring in all those goddamn microdoses for me, which really have helped me. We should start promoting them on here. Evolved nutrients, microdoses. I haven't taken an antidepressant in years. They are, honest to God, the things that keep me going, I didn't take them while I was in Europe and I really saw a difference. But luckily, because Europe was so amazing, which, by the way, we're gonna be spending a lot of time in London this year. Very exciting. So Josh Adam Myers.com for tickets at Josh Adam Myers on all social, subscribe to the Patreon. I don't know if anybody still does, but if you do, man. Pat patreon.com backslash the 500 podcast. Five bucks gets you a lot. 25 gets you even more merchy. Birchie. Birchie Turchi. I always talk like that when I got nothing to say. And subscribe to both YouTubes. Mine, Josh Adamire 79 and the 500 podcast. Okay, let's get to it, guys. Talking heads, man. Talking heads. Talking talking heads. What are you doing? You talking heads? I'm talking heads. Was. I was talking Knees yesterday. Today I'm talking Heads, one of the. One of the bands that loved. You know, I think I say it on here. I was a poser for years and I bought their merch and then. And now I'm a fan and I am a fan. And, you know, sometimes you get to prepare and sometimes you don't. But sometimes you don't have to prepare because you get a guest like Greg Proops. It's his second time back. He is, I mean, the smartest man in the world for a reason. He's just. He is just a such a well thought out, groovy dude. You know, we kept it real light this one. There's no politics, just love of the game and love of the th. And then if you want to see Greg, he's performing at the Punchline in San Francisco for New Year's Eve ticket store dates. Check out his website, gregproots.com and they're gonna be. Whose line is It Anyway? He's gonna be on. On the go and listen to his podcast the Smartest man and get ready because he's doing that. Another live album taping as we talk about in this. So support this man because he is a fan of the show and we love him. He is a general in the fleece army. Rate review and most Importantly, subscribe to the 500 listen free on all platforms or anywhere you get your pods. Follow me at Josh, Adam Myers and all Soj. Follow the podcast at the 500 podcast. Email the pod@500podcastgmail.com dude, guys, get on the Facebook group and if you want to all things 5Honey, go to the website the 5Honey podcast.com 500podcast. That's what it is. The 500podcast.com. All right, party people. 129 talking heads remain in light. Well, before I can even get into the record, I was gonna say one. How are you doing? Promote away. Dude, it's so great to have you back. Like, also, to everybody that doesn't know this, I was listening when we did the first album with you. We. We did so much on the first half and we still had like nine tracks to go through that we made you come back to do another half. It was great.
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B
It was one of my favorites in this one.
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A
No, Well, I don't. I think there's. Yes, we'll pick up the pace, but this is. I don't want to not give this the respect it deserves. So before we get into it, because I know both of us got a lot to say probably because this this album fucking rules. Promote away. What are you doing? Are you on tour? Are you making stuff? What's going on?
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B
Thank you. Yeah, Jam. I'm in San Francisco for New Year's Eve at the Punchline. You can find everything@gregpruitz.com, i'm with Jackie Cation and Dialects Mariana. I'm making another album. The album you see here is the one I made that's unavailable for sale right now. It's called Free State of California. I made that last year at the Punchline, making another one this year. I improvised the albums over the course of the two nights and the four shows doing standup. So that's the 30th and 31st in San Francisco, the 21st here in LA. My wife and I have a film club and Jennifer picks all the films and we're showing Ninochka by Ernst Lubitsch, written by Billy Wilder and Charles Brackett, starring Garbo. It's the movie that the tagline was. Garbo laughs. It's her first comedy and Jennifer picked it because Garbo's a Russian. She comes over to the States with her communism and trying to be depressive and ends up having an awesome time because of America. The who's on Is It Anywhere? We're back on the road next year and with Ryan Stiles, Gary Anthony Williams, Joel Murray, Jeff Davis, Laura hall from Whose Line and Me. We just did 110 dates this year, and we're doing another 100 dates next year. So we start in the Bay, I think Canada in January, and then we go up to the Bay Area in February and stuff, and that's whose live dot com. And then let's say, what else the Smartest man in the World podcast my wife and I do. We'll probably do one in the next week or two and there'll be a new one of that, and I think that covers everything. And of course, I got a bunch of old albums, but if you go to gregproofs.com and by old, I mean I've made one every year for the last four years.
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A
It's like, it's not that old. I mean, you got. You got a grip. Were you guys. Because I saw your poster all over the Celebrity Theater in Phoenix. Did you guys already do that or you haven't done it or you're going to do it again?
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B
Phoenix is next year. February.
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A
Oh, my God, you're gonna. What a great venue, man. Like in the round. Have you guys done that in the round before? Have you done, like, in around improv.
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B
Yeah, we have. And we've done it in New Jersey. And what. What is fantastic, because the Jersey Girls get up there and just beat you up on stage, and you have to. We don't have HR in our group, so it's. It's pretty wild doing it in the round in New Jersey because they're. They're rough and ready, yo.
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A
God.
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B
You know, more mellow.
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, what a cool venue and quite possibly one of the worst parts of town. I mean, I was like.
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B
I was like.
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A
I just want to say thank you, everybody, for coming out tonight. Also, your cars are being broken into.
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B
Yeah, yeah. Someone's keying it right now.
- [10:33]
A
Yeah, yeah.
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B
Dude.
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A
If you. It's right next to the Veterans of Foreign affairs, like, building. Government building. And I'm like, if you work there, like, what do you have for lunch options? It's like taco truck or taco truck, because there is nothing in that area.
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B
You're lucky you get a taco truck and. But you can probably get a bail bond if you need one.
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A
It's 100. True. All right. Being that you're a movie buff, and before we get into this record, I want to ask you, what is your. And this is a loaded question. What is your top movie of the year? What's the. What's the movie that blew you away?
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B
Oh, for this year.
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A
For this year, yeah.
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B
Oh, Kittens. I don't know that I want the movies very much this year. I mean, we show a movie every month, but we show vintage movies.
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A
Sure.
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B
We never show anything new. So I'm trying to think of anything I saw this year that was new. Kittens. That's a terrible. I. I've. For a movie buff, I'm completely flummoxed.
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A
Really?
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B
I saw Naked Gun. It was okay.
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A
It was good. It's a good. Do you see weapons?
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B
No, I haven't seen weapons and I haven't seen Sinners, and Sinners is the one I would probably pick, but I haven't seen it yet.
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A
Oh. See? Weapons. Because I think that is a strong case to be. I mean, it's not as like. Whereas, like, Thinners is very, you know, it's about race relations, about the music industry, about how, like, the white, you know, corporate guys stole from the black art. So there's so much in it as the vampires and the metaphors, but just weapons is so much fun. Yeah. I was curious.
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B
I was hoping.
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A
I don't know if it was, like, sentimental or what. The movie that came out with One of the scars Gars. There's too many scars guards. We lay off. We don't need any more of them. No more scars.
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B
The father, the son, probably some other scars guards out there running around like Baramores or Kardashians that we don't know about.
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A
Yes, we get. We can get. We can drop the scars guards. Watch weapons. Because I would love to know what you think about that. It was. That's my favorite movie of the year. And this is home to Segue. We do this podcast. We've been doing it for seven. Seven years. I have no idea. At this point. And you get a record delivered to you at the right time when you need it. And man, oh, man, oh, Chevitz did I need remain in light. And I'd listened to it before, but to dig. I mean, I'm called my language. To dig the. Into this and really live with this for like a week. This became arguably one of my favorite records that I think I've done on this podcast. And I mean, look, I'm wearing the. And I was a poser when I bought this. I was a poser when I bought the. The. The Remaining Light vintage T shirt. Because I was like, thought this was cool. And. And this is God's honest truth. I mean, I couldn't imagine what this was like to hear, you know, when this first came out, or in the. In the 80s, just along with all the other. So tell me, Greg, because you're. I mean, you're a buff. You're a dude that knows music, art, everything. Where were you? How did you. And what happened after?
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B
You know, I think we were spoiled, Jim. I mean, like, you know, we had that year London Calling. If you're a Springsteen person. I'm not a huge Springsteen person. But for the Springsteen people, the river, which was a real different kind of take for him that year, the Talking Heads did remain in Light. And the Talking Heads were so emerging at that point. They'd had three or, I guess three or four albums. This is like their fourth or fifth album. And so everybody knew that they were developing. They'd started as a really almost clinical, airless art band that was very technical. And all the bands that came out of the punk scene had exploded by this point. The Ramones, Blondie, Television, the Talking Heads. I'm probably forgetting some of Mink deville. For goodness sakes. Willie deville went on to be an insanely great musician, but at this point, they were still doing that Mink deville back. I'm talking about the bands from New York, not all around the world. And so we had all of them going. I think the Ramones did what Road to Ruin around here. And Blondie's probably on each of the beat or whatever. So, like, all those groups out of New York came from that one scene. And the Talking Heads are the. It speaks to the.
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A
A.
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B
A variety of punk. You know, they were all labeled punk, right? Blondie, the Ramones, Talking Heads, Wink deville, Television. And they're not. They're. They were varying degrees of art bands, which, of course, we've come to understand now. Once it got to post punk and all that jazz, when the Pistols, you know, devolved in the Clash, blah, blah, blah. So the Talking Heads are always labeled as the artist because they went to art school, and they all have degrees from art school. And they're also visual artists. So they came with a whole package, right, like that. Wearing, like, Izod shirts when everybody was wearing ripped T shirts and leather jackets. They didn't wear safety pins. They didn't shout at the crowd. They weren't aggressive in any way. They were detached, emotionless. So now I'm setting it all up for where we're getting to remain in light. So they did the first album, which I didn't have, but I remember listening to it. Then the second album, which was called Buildings and More Songs About Buildings and Food. This will give you an idea of their sense of humor. Tina said, what do we call a record that's only about buildings and Food? And I think Chris said, why don't we call it More Songs About Buildings and Food? So they did, and then Eno got with them on that album, which is the pivotal moment.
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A
Right.
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B
So then the next album is Fear Music, the one with the black cover. And Fear Music's really good, and it has life during wartime. So now they're starting to have hits, and they're. You know, they're. They're really popular on the alternative radio scene. And Eno did that record, too. And there's a. A Dada poem that starts that album. And my friend Brian Lohman, who is a very big influence on me musically, brought me over to his house and he played me the Black Album, which is called Fear Music. And the first track is a very effron African Dada. Like the. Not so much trying to tell a story or anything. Just nonsense, you know, or surrealism.
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A
Sure.
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B
And that's, I think, the jumping off point for this album, Right? Yes. Then they weren't getting along as a band.
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A
Yes. Oh, I love that. I love that. Dude, I swear, I'm not gonna cut you off, but, dude, you're hitting every point, Greg, that I was gonna bring up. And I'm so happy it's you. Yeah. For everybody. You know, people forget that. That, like, you know, David is. Is. Is on the spectrum. And so he's very intense. He doesn't. The interpersonal, like, conversations that you'll have with somebody. So imagine being in a band that's already above the four, that's past the forefront, or trying to push the boundaries. And you have people so many times, so many talented people in that band, you know, with. With. With Jerry and Tina and everybody. So then it's just him. And two of them are married, right?
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B
Like, yeah, Chris and Tina are married, and they're.
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A
They're the rhythm set. They're basically the timekeepers of this whole thing. And so you have. You have them with Jerry and then you have David, who is a genius art school guy. Big shout out that. The Baltimore Connection, by the way.
- [17:43]
B
Oh, really?
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A
But. Oh, you know, he. Yeah, he went to Micah, which is. And also this is the coolest. One of my favorite bars in Baltimore was in the worst parts of town. It was called the Talking Head. So it was like. Oh, well, no, I think that was. I think that's. I think they named it after him. I think the name of the bar after the band. I. I would double check that math.
- [18:04]
B
Right.
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A
But I just always knew it as such. And that's where they had this hip, like, hipster dance party where, you know, in like the early mid 2000s, it would be like Franz Ferdinand and. And Block Party and all of those. Like, you know, very. The new. The new. New. New waves coming through. But. But yeah, so. So you're really after that fear of music. Like, there. There's a possibility they're gonna break up. Like, they're. They're critical darlings, but it's like, you know, he's. Him and Brian are a team. And then the rest of the band. Jerry's producing something else. That Hendrix chick. And then like you said, like, you know, the Tina and. And what's. Okay, I can't think of his. I don't have it in front of him. And Chris. Yeah, they're. They're like. They're. They go away and they're just like, let's get the. Out of here and go on vacation. Pick it up. You're killing it. No notes.
- [18:51]
B
Well, yeah, so they're producing records in the Bahamas, which started that whole thing about going down to the Bahamas. For them. And then Jerry did that record with Nona Hendricks, which really leads to the next funk element of their thing. Because Nona was in the bell and is a. Was a kind of like gay disco star at the time, you know. And so Brian and him made Life in the Bush of Ghosts. And Life in the Bush of Ghosts is like, you know, that world beginning of world music. This is, you know, that David Byrne and then Peter Gabriel and Paul Simon and then everybody started doing world music, right? Meaning African influence, meaning South American DDD And Chris thought it was a load of shit. And his quote about their album Life in the Bush of Ghosts, which by the way, was a critical darling album, is it was two 14 year old guys trying to impress each other, right? So now they make their record and Eno doesn't want any part of it. And they go to him and they go, here's some of the demos we made for some of the songs on Remain in Light. And he goes, I love this direction. So they've been listening to, and this is a real, like turning point for American pop, right when we started listening back to African groups like Fela Kudi and King Sunny Ade and all that juju music stuff. And so that's what they were clearly listening to. And I think the genius of this record was, aside from all the arguing and horribleness, because Brian comes back, they make the record, and then Brian says to them, why don't we call the record the Talking Heads and Brian Eno? And they're like, fuck you. You know, Chris and Jerry and Tina are like, what do you mean? In Brian Eno?
- [20:27]
A
Yeah, yeah.
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B
And there's a story about Chris goes into the booth when they're making one of the songs and Eno turns and goes, there's too many people in the control booth.
- [20:37]
A
Oh my God.
- [20:38]
B
So him and David are really. They put their name all over the album when it came out. No one else got any fucking songwriting credits. Having said all that, the genius of this album is it takes African music and imbues their music with it. They're not ripping off African music. They're not using African musicians. They're. They're doing a version of what they felt that meant. And I think that's where the sincerity. And like you were saying, you start to listen to it and it's hypnotic. It takes you over. You don't need a. A through line or story songs or anything like that. Even a point of view. Some of the songs, the point of view, you're like, what's happening? You know, there's the one guy who's on TV and he's losing his mind, and then the. The last song that's all dreary and you want to kill yourself and. But then you listen to it a bunch of times and you're like. It's not actually dreary at all. Meditation. The songs become meditate. Meditate. Meditative. Meditative.
- [21:38]
A
No, you got it. You had it. I knew.
- [21:43]
B
And I think part of the hypnosis is, like, the structure of how they made it. Brian Emo. There was no looping then, like, as we know it now. Like now you could take your phone or the computers were on and loop. Then it was a matter of tape. Right. Literally physical tape. Oh, yeah. So in order to make the sounds that they made, and there's no chord changes on the album, which is extraordinary to make an entire rock and roll album that doesn't keep changing chords, they get in one thing, they do it. And he had everybody learn their part and play it repetitively over and over. And he called it human looping. So those tracks. Because, you know, the first song comes out, what is it? Cross Eyed. Cross Eyed. Painless, Whatever.
- [22:29]
A
Yeah, yeah. Let me pull it up. I'll get the whole. I'll get the track list out. Yeah, it opens. I mean, what a great. Just the sequencing on this, too. No, it's so. So no. First. First track is Born Under Punches. The Heat goes on. Painless.
- [22:40]
B
Yeah. Right. But do you have the. Or we play them. I can't remember.
- [22:43]
A
We can. What? I love that you're. That you're talking about with this. You know, and it really. I think this is the other big thing we really need to hit because you mentioned all this stuff about the Afro beat, the. The polyrhythms. You know, this is. This is the. This is the. I'm not gonna say it's the last record, but it's a record where I heard. I was watching a documentary on it earlier today, and it was like saying they went in with no egos. We're gonna just make this together. We're gonna start doing these jam sessions and we're gonna take the best parts and build a song out of that. And then, of course, like you said, you know, Brian Eno is gonna keep Brian Eno.
- [23:18]
B
Gonna.
- [23:18]
A
Brian Eno. So he is gonna be. You know, and we. We've done multiple records by him. His solo stuff on the pod, done so many that he's produced. And, you know, you can't deny the genius, but he took the approach that the Beatles took and that Brian Wilson took, that the studio itself is an instrument and we're going to make that the extension of everything. And what's cool, what, like I mentioned earlier and you mentioned earlier, is that it was going with. With David and Brian being as the leaders and everybody's pissed off. They. They both all dropped their egos and said, we're going to work together and we're gonna make this record. And I mean, it really turns out to be. I mean, this is, this is, you know, you're, you're, you're being as creative as possible. You're breaking it open. You know, you're reaching what I would call Talking Heads and David and everybody's artistic peak. And it just. Yeah, man. I mean, you know, even. Just not just the, The, The. The lyrics. Another lyrics. I'm sorry, the music. But lyrically it was like they, he waited on all of that. They made the, the beats and everything first, then he went with the lyrics. And you just. It's just, it's all stream of consciousness too. Sometimes he's getting it from preacher stuff. Sometimes he's getting it from. Oh, not the Watergate papers.
- [24:36]
B
I think I saw Testimony. Yeah.
- [24:38]
A
Yeah. I mean, it's, it's. What a genius way to do it. So you got the, you got the opening track, brother.
- [24:45]
B
Yeah. Did you want the opening track across it and panelists.
- [24:47]
A
Which one do you want, Greg?
- [24:49]
B
This is the opening one. Yeah.
- [24:52]
A
Let me get. I had Cross Eyed and Painless queued up.
- [24:54]
B
Let me get 400 punches.
- [24:55]
A
Get them all ready, dude. Get them all ready.
- [24:58]
B
You got it, you got it, you got it.
- [24:59]
A
We're on Pacific Standard time here, baby. Does anybody need some Neosinephrine or Sudafed? Anybody? No one, right?
- [25:09]
B
Already doing it.
- [25:11]
A
Oh, really? Yeah, dude, I'm all hopped up on Mucinex right now. All right, let's get a little taste.
- [25:41]
B
The. Punches.
- [26:03]
A
I'm so single. I mean, come on, dude.
- [26:13]
B
Yeah, it's so daring.
- [26:16]
A
It. It.
- [26:18]
B
You know, they're already an art band, but that has elements of the first three albums, but it jumps off immediately. And then that chanty background vocal thing that they do on the whole thing is so kicking. And I think what you said is so imperative. They made the tracks first and then they wrote words to them and then they recorded the vocals. It was not. We came in with songs. The songs kind of evolving. Like you say that it. It completely supports the surreal aspect and the, the avant garde aspect of the album that the lyrics aren't. I Went to the store and I did a thing and I fell in love and I'm. You know, my heart's broken. There's none of that. It's absolutely in the moment, you know. And I think the, the propulsiveness of all the tracks is something that when you listen to it through gets you. You can't not be moved by like the, the, the rhythm of everything, the polyrhythm and, and you can hear them playing it over and over and over and over and over and over. And I, I think that just serves it completely. I mean, the record after this is the one that I bought. I didn't buy this record. I heard it in other people's houses and on the radio. But the record after this is Speaking in Tongues that has Girlfriend is better and Burning down the House and is way more of just a straight funk album. Right. Even though he did the cut up technique for that album and did the Burrows thing of writing the lyrics on pieces of paper, throwing them all over the room and then picking them up and putting them so 365 degrees, burning down the house. That was something he'd written. Threw down on the floor, picked it up, put it together. This one wasn't written that way and there's elements of the funk to come in it, but it's way more experimental, I think. And like you say, maybe their greatest art album, you know, like everything happens on this record. Everybody hit. The hit song from it is one that everybody knows.
- [28:17]
A
That's not even the best song, Greg. That's not even the best record.
- [28:20]
B
That's. It's.
- [28:21]
A
In my opinion, it's fun and it's. But it's like, dude, I mean, I won't go drop my favorite song on this record yet. I'm going to save it to the end. Okay. This, but I'm gonna say this, Greg, this is the basis for any dance art band. This is LCD Sound system. This is all the bands. The Rapture. All the. Yeah. Massive Attack. Yeah. I mean, and there it's. You're literally taking. You know, you had said it earlier about mentioning television because we just did that with Wil Wheaton, who was great. Another guy. I mean, dude, if you and him did a podcast together, that would be nine hours. You know, he's such a good dude, very smart, very, very cool and, and loved television. And you know, when I sit there and I talk to my writer Morty about, you know, this is. Oh, this is post punk. How is it post punk before punks even come out? That's the Insane of how ahead of its time it is. I mean this is, this is one of the most. I mean, for 1980, where you're in such a weird place in music coming off of like the. Of the Led Zeppelins and then coming out of punk and coming out of disco and you get this quasi amalgamation of. Not just that, but then like you said, the Filakuti, which, you know, hasn't really blown up if I'm mistaken. I mean he's blown up in like circles. But not like, he's not like, yeah, dude, it's not mainstream.
- [29:41]
B
No one's just getting into reggae by this point. You know what I'm saying?
- [29:44]
A
Exactly, exactly. And so to open up the album, you know, with. We've done what, three records? I think we did 77 and we did songs about more songs and. And I don't. This doesn't sound like anything really off of there. Far groovier. Oh, I got a good question for you because this is about your brain. So if all this we're talking about Born Under Punch, as the Heat Goes on, it's all about like as it says, lyrics we're talking about the music was built through the jams. The polyrhythms lyrics are built from fragmented phrases burn pulled from radio sermons and self help language. It's basically, you know, it's a man talking himself into sanity and failing. Since you are one of the fastest thinkers alive, have you ever felt like your brain is moving so fast that it turns on you mid sentence?
- [30:27]
B
Yeah, and there's been times for me and I know this is just, you know, performer talk, but like there's been times, once or twice, I can think of a few times where I've been on stage and I've been riffing and I don't know what I'm going to say next. And what you say next is right. And that means you're in that perfect state of like equipoise where you're confident enough to carry on forward but you only know what you've done. So you're walking backwards. And so there's that mental gymnastics of I've covered what I did and I've got to come back to it and make it solid for the audience. Because as soon as you reference something you did before with the audience, they know you are there before they did, which is a real trick. And I think that this, sonically, this record almost does that. It puts you in that place where like, you don't know what they're going to do and. But the Rhythm is so solid that it's sort of okay that he's just rambling on and like you say, a person talking himself into sanity. And I think that's a really good description of the lyrics of this. David's not a warm person. David's not someone who you hold hands with and share. The other album we did, Imperial Bedroom, that, for an Elvis Costello album, was a very sentimental. Like, he's. The first four or five Elvis Costello albums are not sentimental. It's. I hate you. I want revenge on you. I'd like to kick your ass. I hate. You know, I'm hurt. I'm hurt. And then Imperial Bedroom all of a sudden, like, oh, I want to be married. I want to have a relationship. I can't believe I let you down. You know, all those different complexities.
- [32:05]
A
Yes.
- [32:05]
B
You're never getting that from David. He doesn't. It's not in him as a songwriter. He's not Marvin Gaye, you know, like, he's.
- [32:11]
A
Yeah, I know.
- [32:12]
B
He's like reading a book or watching an art film. He's detached. And so I think the warmth of the production and the warmth of the. Like you said, the ensemble completely supports him. The. The great art he can do is what he did on this record, you know, front a band. You. You don't need to be the emotional center. You're the intellectual center, and the music's the emotional center.
- [32:39]
A
Yes, because David's. Because we. You know, we mentioned it earlier. It's like David is going. You know, David's going to do and push the limits in so many other ways, whether he's never been the greatest singer, but what he's. But he understands the groove. He understands how interesting his voice is and know how to manipulate that. And then on top of that, I mean, you have to admit, with. Regardless if it almost tore the goddamn band away or apart, is that Brian Eno is. Is a perfect match for David. To expand on that, you know, and not just the. That they did on these records that Brian produced. I mean, one of my favorite songs that. That David's ever done is Strange Overtones, you know, off of the record that he did with Brian. And I just think they just. They get each other. And that sucks because I could see it being guys in the band could feel like, oh, like, what? No, but that was us. Like, we were cool. And now you got this new guy, you know, who's a genius, who played with Roxy Music and wears kimonos and. And it has a receding hairline, you know, and has that like, Jack Nichols, Nicholas and Shining Hair, but still looks good, you know, it's. It's. It's tough, man. So.
- [33:44]
B
And then he made his own keyboards and invented his own genre of music and establishes ambient music as a type of. Of music that everyone got into. And the importance of ambience and. And all those tracks going forward. And these albums have an element of that, too. I think it's exactly what you're saying. And David's not the kind of bandmate that reassures you, man. Like, when you go, how come you're spending all your time with him? He's not gonna go, look, you guys, I love you guys. That's never coming out of his mouth, you know, I mean, Tell each other to off and then tell them they love each other. You know, there's none of that. It's just off and then, like, let's just sit back down, you know? But I think you're right. And Eno is the perfect element that pushes them forward. And you notice once he splits, they do the funk album after him without him, and then they do what's it? Little Creatures or whatever that one's called, and all of a sudden they're back to sounding like a white new wave band.
- [34:43]
A
Yeah.
- [34:44]
B
And it's not limited. It's still a very good album. It's catchy, and it has. And she Was and all those records, but it's absolutely none of this.
- [34:51]
A
All that's gone.
- [34:53]
B
And that's two albums later. And so I think you're right. Brian Eno is like, without him, they might not do this.
- [35:01]
A
Oh, 100 you. You know, and I love that you're doing this record because, listen, this is. And this isn't a. This isn't a, you know, just a David and Brian Nino record. This is the full band from. This is. This is them being a full band, but with Brian's influence and every big record that we've done that either br. Brian has produced and. Or been a Brian Eno record has been people that, like, really cool people. Like, we did. We had Gerald Casali doing one of Brian Eno's solo records. We had Perry Farrell in 2019. It's like. I mean, I was trying to see if I could pull the rest of the list in time, but it's just like, those are, you know, very people that. That are these two rock stars. Heavily influenced, you know, by him and. And by his genius. But also, you know, not completely. You know, listen, I mean, with General Casale, obviously, because they. Because Brian, you Know, produced. I'm not. I'm not mistaken. Produced his. For their first record. They produced the first diva record. But, yeah, it's like he is a guy that. That has taken so many artists, whether it's Coldplay, whether it's YouTube and help them make some of their best music, you know, but being more technical and being more involved in the studio, like a George Martin, other than someone like, oh, God, who's the guy everybody loves that doesn't know anything? The board. Rick Rubin, who's just a vibe guy. Dude, Brian Eno is a vibe and technical guy that plays a million instruments. So you're. When you get that he's the guy that was probably like, oh, man, you got to hear this Fila guy. And it's like, yeah, and let's get that groove. And then here's this new. I'll get another rhythm behind that rhythm. Because, dude, if you listen to Born Under Punches, there's like four different beats kind of going on during that. And that's rad.
- [36:43]
B
That's radio for this band, especially without the. The awesomeness of doing it, for lack of a better word, organically or. Or analog, as we say now. Because there. It isn't a bunch of computers.
- [36:57]
A
There are.
- [36:57]
B
You know, they use synthesizers and Adrian Blues guitar solos and are put through synthesizers. They already had all that, but they weren't. They didn't have the technology that. That everybody uses now to just endlessly loop and sample. They were doing it the way you had to do it then. And there's a certain. The handmade quality of that makes it bitching. And I would agree with you. My wife and I were discussing it before we talked today. Ray Manzarek, John Cale and Brian Eno. Punk never gets off the ground. And post punk art never gets off the ground without those producers. Because between him, it's X and Patti Smith and like you say, diva talking as someone has to come in there and Phil Spector the place and go, I need you to sound like something. The Talking Heads were entertaining RD band, like you said. David's vocals, if you listen on the second album to the tricks he does what he. I don't have to prove I am creative. I don't have to prove he's doing that. You know, that the dissonant new wavy thing. And that's all gone on this record. There's no more of that tricky, you know, new wave jazz. It's way more behind the thing. And then by the time they get to the next album, they're funked out of their minds. And his white guy voice works with those tracks so hard, you know. And that's a, that's the genius of them. If there's a genius of the Talking Heads. Dance music that's intellectual or intellectual music that's dance music, whatever you want to call it. Like they made a couple records in the middle of the career you can dance the shit out of. You can put this record on and hang out and do your thing all day because it's that kind of record.
- [38:34]
A
Oh really?
- [38:34]
B
Background enough that you don't get caught up in it. If you want to jump in and dance, you can. You know what I mean? Like, it's a really wild record that way.
- [38:43]
A
This is, this is a, this is a clean the house record. Like, you can't. Like it makes it so entertaining. It's back, you know, it's a, it's a party record. It's a, it's. You could have it on. You could have this on at a dinner party. You could have this on at a, at a get together. You could have this on in your car. Like, this was. I listened to this walking around New York City. It's, it's just, it has such a vibe and, and you know, I wanted to, I wanted to, to, to go on about the. Oh, I forgot what the point was. I. Because I wanted to bring it up to the live shows of C. Someone like David Live. I was really lucky enough to see him at Radio City Music hall with the new tour that he's doing right now. And I mean just the genius of, of how he. I mean every detail of that show is, is well thought out, down to the outfits, down to the, into this, the full screen presentation. I mean, I, I know even just the look of some of the people that are in his band, he has this like. I don't know if he's the keyboardist or the drummer who's got on one of those drumline drums because everybody's got their instruments with them. And he's like. He looks like the guy that played. He played Kramer in the television series of Seinfeld when they tried to make it for NBC. That guy, but an older version, so his, you know, or blue from old school. And, and the basis is this like very tiny black chick. The bass is almost bigger than her and she's shredding and he's got these dancers that are just so great. And one of them, this blonde one, I just, is just so fun to watch. And I couldn't get my eyes off of her. Just Being beautiful, but just her movements are so great. And it was this whole well thought out thing. And it's like, you know, it just shows you the way that, you know, a way that David would basically be open to doing something and. And pushing the lines and pushing the boundaries. Even if, I bet you, if, you know, with the band, like we said before, the band felt like they were being left out in the cold. And for him to be approached, he just seems like a guy that's open and able to take those suggestions and then use his genius and kind of formulate it into something else and. And for them to, you know, because it's like, it's almost more punk rock for him to go, you know what? It's not just me and Brian. It's all of us together again. And just, let's do that. And now he even knew it. Where it's like, when he gets down to this later part of his career, after some of the albums we've talked about, after this, is that he's like, listen, man, like, we did our thing. It's great. We love each other. We all. We're all doing our own things now. Jerry, you're producing live and doing great, and it's just like I'm gonna kind of go and take it as far as I want to take it in with the David Byrne thing and seeing those live shows of his. I mean, I. I don't know. Like, I don't think there's a better going to. Like, I could imagine going to see Talking Heads and walking out, just smiling ear to ear, but going to see David, it's. It was like, for a guy that's like a. A medium fan, it took me to a level of like, oh, my God, this is one of the best concerts. It was such a fun show, dude.
- [41:33]
B
I mean, songs off this record.
- [41:35]
A
Oh, yeah, he did well, obviously he did. So it's. He does. He does his solo and then he also does a lot of Talking Heads, so he's playing all the hits. He did. He definitely did, like we said, once in a lifetime. He did Houses in Motion, which. That's kind of my word.
- [41:58]
B
I don't want to say that.
- [42:02]
A
That's my favorite. That's my favorite on this record. That is hands down. And like you mentioned, like, what is it? Life after Wartime from the record before. I mean, that's like, they really know about. I mean, I love that so much. So, yeah, he does everything, but it's like just the genius of, like, having. There's one thing that he does where the band, I guess everybody has a thing on them, like a. An air tag. And so they're all moving and doing these like, these symbiotic like. Like movements. And they're moving around in this, like, weird shuffle on stage. But on the projector in the back, everybody has a number and those numbers are moving to wherever they are. And it's just like. Like, it's just so well thought out and genius, you know, along with. With that part of the show and, and the way the lighting is and the way the outfits is just every cool thing you could possibly think of, you know, it really is just. It really just made me such a huge fan of him and, and, and this band. And that's why I think this record hit even more this time. Because it's like, oh, Nick, now I. Now I've seen him and now I get it. And I couldn't imagine what that was like in the 80s for them to.
- [43:11]
B
Come drop this 40 years ago, you know, that crazy. Yeah. And I'm. It's really exciting that it is still that vital. I saw them on the Burning down the house tour. So 84. We went to Berkeley and it was outdoors. And I remember thinking at the time, my wife and I, the genius of the. The art school element that leads them to. To attend to every detail made them utterly different than every other rock and roll band. They weren't doing. Oh my God, we're spontaneous. Who wants to get laid? Let's get high. It's a party. They were bringing you an entire idea, a concept from beginning to end. And on that tour, because it was the whole band, they started with him and he started. You've seen the movie, right? It's not making sense.
- [44:04]
A
So one of the best concert. We talked about that with the guests that I had on. They said this is the, in their opinion, the greatest conc. Film. It's Jonathan Demme. You know, it's. It's the way it's shot. Everything about it is great.
- [44:17]
B
It's.
- [44:18]
A
It's. It's really one of the. One of the best concert film videos you're ever going to watch.
- [44:22]
B
I agree. And I think the reason is, and this is not to diminish every other concert film that does it differently, like the Last Waltz or, you know, Don't Look Back or There's no interviews. And this is not a band that you literally. You don't want to spend any time with them backstage and you don't want to spend any time listening to their individual opinions. It only clouds the work. And so Stop Making Sense is absolutely just them doing their act. And once or twice there's this close up and he'll pop up into camera or something. They'll use a little bit of film, you know, effects. But mostly it's the live show shot from the front. And any other concert film, they'd be backstage smoking and talking. And that's not them. Like, the genius of them, like you said, Josh, when you saw them in New York, was the package. It's what they're wearing, what the visuals. Cindy Sherman, Jane Holzer, you know, all the influence from New York, all the graphic artists, the light that's held on him in Stop Making Sense where they follow him out with the light. And the giant costume itself, that was a whole know. And then him working that costume for the whole second half of the show. But it builds, builds, builds, builds, builds that show. And then by the end, you're taken away. They start with a little acoustic thing, then they come out with a boombox. Then there's two of them, then there's three of them, then there's four of them. And at the end, it's an entire funk band, everyone jumping in the air. And I remember being at the show and everyone in the concert was jumping in the air at the audience, but it went from the lowest, lowest, you know, same.
- [46:03]
A
Same dude he did. He opened with. He opened with Heaven Is Amazing. Yeah. And then. Anyway. Oh, but dude, it was like him. And I don't know if he had an instrument or there was maybe a guitarist or. Or a singular. Whatever the instrument was, it was singular. Either a keyboard or a. Or a guitar, but he had like three vocalists. And it was such a beautiful, simple, just no frills way, you know, it wasn't like what we were about to get. It was like you said, it was start the bare minimum, but still the most. In my opinion, the most beautiful part of the entire show. Especially when he goes into talking the shows about earth and about people and about human connection to start with that. And then. And then do this speech and then it just opens up into this David Byrne wonderland where you're like, oh, my God, this is. This is just so much fun.
- [46:52]
B
Kind of ban that. Like, they don't. I don't know if they demand your attention as much as they focus everyone's attention on exactly what they're doing. And that allows them within that parameter to get a day across really hard, as opposed to another band that might come out and be really loud at the beginning or come out and yell how you guys doing? Or whatever. They don't care how you're doing. You know what I mean? From an art point of view, what you're doing and how you're feeling. Like you said him singing that song at the beginning, softly with other voices. And it's a beautiful song, and it's a good melody and the harmony. All of a sudden you're drawn in. And that's the power of their. Their. The way they do it. You know, you go to see the Rolling Stones, there's going to be a big inflatable doll, and they're gonna do, you know, Satisfaction really loud. And that's the excitement. That's what you want. But this band, it's. We're gonna start down here and then we're gonna make it. And I think this album kind of does that too. Like, starts on that really weird. Like you said, there's 17 different rhythms going. There's the weird loops of the dissonant music. Then all of a sudden, the vocals get weirder and weirder. And, like, by the end of the album, you know, you're. You're beat up. You've been exposed to sort of free jazz and Arabic music and juju music and a little bit of funk and some dance music. The ambient ranting, chanting, talking, you know, that it's not a guitar or it has great guitar stuff on it, but it's not a rock and roll album in the sense of. Well, what did I say? London Calling in the River. London Calling in the river are like big, sprawling rock and roll albums that cover a lot of ground, like the Clash covers, funk and reggae and, you know, oldies and all sorts of stuff on London Calling. But this album's got that, like you said, the Eno thing of the unity of the focus. And I think he said. What did he say, David? The better the singer's voice, the less you believe what they're saying. You know, when it is oblique, but you kind of get what he means. Like, if you. If you have insane vocal chops, like Freddie Mercury, for instance, who really could sing operatically, it's not a matter of not believing him. It's just I'm a big proponent of taking the parameters of your own talent and making that the palette, you know, Like, I'm not the funniest comic in the world, but within what I Can Do, I can do. David's not the greatest singer or artist in the world, but he's absolutely exploded every moment of what he can do. You. You know what I mean? I don't know if that makes any sense to you.
- [49:40]
A
No, it makes perfect sense. It makes perfect sense. You know, I'm. I was. Because as you were talking about that and you. You said some things, you know, this is a. This is an album based around improvisation versus structure, you know, Whereas, like, there. And that was why I was like, oh, man, the more I. The more I learned about this. And then when you were the guest, I was like, oh, yeah, dude. This is almost perfect because it's like what you develop, you know, when you're working with the guys from whose line. I mean, you've been working with them for so long at this point, so I can assume they already know where you're going or you, you know, where. When. You know that. When you're gonna zig, they're gonna zig or. And vice versa.
- [50:18]
B
We can pass the ball.
- [50:19]
A
How. How long did that take, though? How long did that take to really get that rhythm down?
- [50:24]
B
It was pretty soon because we were thrown into. When we first met, we were all on TV together in England and. Or me and Ryan and Colin and them. And then later, 25 years ago, when we started doing the American one, we were thrown into the cauldron of having to do gigantically long tape sessions immediately together.
- [50:44]
A
Yeah.
- [50:44]
B
And so by the end of the first one, you're already, you know, hitting the ball pretty hard. But I mean, as far as this live group that's been on stage, me and Ryan have been working together on stage for over 25 years now. So we don't really have to think a lot about.
- [50:59]
A
I bet. Yeah.
- [51:00]
B
How it's gonna fit. But the chemistry is. Is everything. Right. I mean, there's bands that don't sing that well. There's bands like, you know, people always want to talk about the Beatles and. Quite right. But I don't know that John or Paul could even read music or did ever read music.
- [51:22]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [51:23]
B
And so doesn't that sort of put pay to the notion that you have to be great or whatever or more accomplished within what they could do? They did it. They picked interesting chords. They were completely surprising all the time. Like you say, the challenge. The challenge. Are you going to challenge yourself? Are you going to make the same record 20 times, like ACDC or. What was their quote? Someone accused us of making the same record a dozen times. Well, it's not. It's 20 times. But again, it's what your fans demand. Right. Yeah. The Talking Heads were never going to be a band. For 40 years, they were a band for as long as they were. And it's a surprise we got eight albums out of them or whatever, you know, because they're. They're. They're an art project, you know, 75.
- [52:11]
A
To 91 with a little doodad in 2002.
- [52:15]
B
I mean. Oh, right, right.
- [52:16]
A
16 years. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's what it says. But that doesn't. That could just be when they officially, you know, said, all right, we're done.
- [52:23]
B
Because, you know, just by the mid late 80s, they're. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're on another bag.
- [52:30]
A
All right, guys, gather round because I need to confess something to y'. All. Every single year, I fly into a full blown holiday panic. I sprint into the mall at 11:58 on December 23rd like it's the Olympic qualifiers and the shelves are empty. So what do I do? I cave. I buy gift cards and that's it. I go, hey, mom, Merry Christmas. Here's 20 bucks to Bed, Bath and Beyond. Or here's just 20 bucks. I hope it changes your life, but not this year, baby. I found Aura frames. It's the perfect gift. And yes, multiple people in my family are getting one because I'm about to become the Oprah of digital picture frames. You get a frame, you get a frame, you get a frame. Every. Everybody's getting frames. The thing is, Aura is actually personal. It's thoughtful. It's like saying, hey, I care enough to put your favorite memories on display instead of buying you a blender in the photos I'm loading up. Oh, we're talking the good stuff. Pictures of me and my sister as kids with terrible haircuts. My dog Lekka looking like she's judging my life choices. Everything they'd actually want to see looping through that gorgeous screen. And the best part, you can upload unlimited photos and videos. You just download the Aura app, connect to Wi Fi and Skadoodle. You are curating a museum of your greatest hits. Plus, it comes in this fancy premium gift box with no price tag, so you look classy without actually being classy. You can't wrap togetherness, but you can frame it for a limited time time. Save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get $35 off Aura's best selling Carver Matte frames named number one by Wirecutter by using promo code the 500 at checkout. That's a U R A frames.com promo code the 500. This deal is exclusively to listeners, and frames sell out fast, so order yours now to get it in time for the holidays. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. Hey everybody. So you guys have probably heard me talk about how I've been in bands my whole life. I love writing songs and performing in front of crowds. Just like with comedy. As a musician, it can be kind of of hard to cut through the noise and really stand out as an artist. I feel like half the music projects I've been in have ended just because we couldn't figure out the answer to that eternal question of how do we get people to hear us? But then again, that was before there was Distrokid. Distrokid is a digital music distribution service that brings your sound to the masses. It's a one stop shop for getting your songs on itunes, Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube Music, Amazon, Deezer, Tidal, and many more. What's Deezer? I never even heard of Deezer. How many of them are there? I know that's like the holy grail of streaming services though. And getting paid. They want to. We want to get you paid for your music. That's huge because a lot of bands go broke before they get big. But Distrokid collects earnings and payments and sends 100% of these earnings to artists minus banking fees and applicable taxes. And that's just one of the tons of benefits of using Distrokid. You can send big files to anyone with their Instant Share feature. You can use the Hyper Follow feature to promote your release and get pre saves on your song. You can even create personal landing pages for yourself, your band, your brand, and whatever you like. It has a free Spotify Canvas generator too to generate your own Spotify canvas for your songs. And the Mixia feature instantly masters your tracks for higher quality audio. So if you're ready to bring your band to the next level, it's time to check out Distrokid. The Distrokid app is now available on iOS and Android. Go to the app or Play Store to download it. Listeners of this show can get 30% off their first year by going to distro kid.com VIP/the500. That's distrokid.com VIP the500 for 30 off your first year. Dig it. I mean Jerry by this point is already producing. By the way we had Jerry. We had Jerry on when we did Modern Lovers, which was so cool. And I did a. It's. I'm gonna see how I dye this in even more is there's another podcast which is non existent anymore, but these two brilliant comics, Tom Takar and Tom I Forget his last name. But they do one where you defend your band or your bit. No, it's your band. So your favorite album sucks. And you bring an album in and you say, I love this record. And they tell you why it sucks.
- [57:24]
B
And.
- [57:25]
A
And I don't. It's not my favorite album at all, but I. And I. I don't know if you'd even like it, but it's a Jerry Harrison produced record. It's live Throwing copper. You know, that's. I love was like. It was like that. That 90s schlocky, you know, is it grunge? Is it alternative? Whatever the it is, they were a band from York, Pennsylvania. And I love that album. And I remember I sat down with Jerry, who is. This is the exact opposite of all the music this guy has probably ever been a part of, in my opinion. He goes, I say, what album are you most proud of being a part of? And he says, producing that record. He mentioned also the Talking Head, but he's like producing, Throwing CO is like, we did it. We did it right. We took these songs and we made them sound perfect. And I think that's. I think, you know, you only can kind of get to that place where you take a band and are able to do that with, working with the group that he's working with here in this record. And that is, you know, to see a perfectionist like Brian Eno and to see this autistic genius like, like David Byrne and to have the rhythm section that you do that are. That are. You know, they're shooting this in the recording this in the Bahamas, if I'm not mistaken. So then you're being influenced kind of like. Like the weather and this, and you. And you're able to take influences in. I mean, it's, it's. It's a really. It's a really, really impressive thing. And. And it was like, you know, sitting down and being able to talk to him and then coming off of, like, the Modern Lovers being a part of two bands that were way ahead of their time.
- [58:48]
B
Was there anyone in the Modern Lovers who didn't go on to be in another gigantic band?
- [58:53]
A
I know, I know. Isn't that crazy?
- [58:55]
B
Everybody, like the, the everyone who was in the Modern Lovers, because Jonathan Richmond is such an original. Talk about an art project. And his heart is really in the rock and roll. You know, I did a gig with him at Josh in 1982 or 83 at a place called Uncle Charlie's in Corta Madera outside of San Francisco. And it was me and my partner. We were a stand up comedy team and we weren't funny. And the woman around the club was a witch. And she gave us. You're supposed to get two drink tickets and 50 bucks. So we split the 50 bucks, which was typical for a team, but she didn't give us two drink tickets each. She gave us two drink tickets and we each got one beer.
- [59:39]
A
Do you remember the drink? Remember what you got?
- [59:41]
B
Beer.
- [59:42]
A
Okay.
- [59:43]
B
So we were fans of Jonathan, right? And we go backstage and he's asleep in the dressing room. He has a guitar and his outfit on. He does not have a costume. He's got jeans and boots. And he's laying on the bench that is the dressing room at Uncle Charlie's. And I go, oh, my God, Forrest. We've woken him up. And he gets up and he goes, hey, you guys. And I go, hi, Jonathan. We're Greg and Forrest and we're comedians. He goes, comedy. I like comedy. I tell jokes during my show, right? So we get up, we do our set, then Jonathan gets up, and there's maybe 25 people there on a Tuesday. And he sings a bunch of songs. He sings Nature Boy. He sings a few songs. And Jonathan Richmond's funny, right? He's a witty, you know, quirky, kooky. So the audience is laughing and he stops the show and he kneels down with his guitar and he goes, nobody here thinks this is some kind of parody, do they? Right? And the whole crowd, no, we're cool. Everybody's cool. So he goes, all right, because I'm serious. And then from that moment, he rocks in the treetops all day long. That's what he did next.
- [61:06]
A
I love it.
- [61:06]
B
And so the audience was completely off balance. And he was, you know, absolutely unique. Like nothing was going to get in that world, you know what I mean? He didn't give a. And by the way, his songs are funny. Like he's the anti Talking Heads. The Talking Heads aren't a very funny band, but Jonathan Richmond, I think, anticipates them in that he didn't. That he's heedless of the audience. It's a personal thing. And Jerry and all the guys that came from his band, I think, really were ready to understand, you know, you don't have to go, hey, who likes vodka? You know.
- [61:52]
A
I wanna, I wanna see.
- [61:53]
B
How many bands did when we were kids, you know, that Completely, completely.
- [61:57]
A
I want to. I wanna. I wanna jump ahead. And I, I'm not trying to skip over some stuff, but we, we have.
- [62:02]
B
I don't know.
- [62:03]
A
I don't have a lot of time. I know you have a lot of time. So. Yeah, once in a lifetime. Let's. Let's talk about once in a lifetime. I mean, I'm not, not to skip over the Great Curve and Cross Eyed and Painless.
- [62:13]
B
I mean, Crosshair and Painless is amazing.
- [62:18]
A
Mention these, please. Please feel free if you have any thoughts. I don't want to just skip to Once in a Lifetime.
- [62:22]
B
I'll just do one quick thought about that cross side. And Painless is so funky. And the Still Waiting. I'm Still Waiting is like hip hop part, right? And then the Great Curve has that insane solo. And I think Robert Fripp and Adrian Ballou guest star on so many albums from the 70s and, and early 80s where they landed that insane sonic sound. You know, Heroes and King Crimson and, and, and what was the one. I'm trying to think of Brian Eno's Here Come the Warm jets, where Frip is all over that album.
- [63:04]
A
Yes, yes.
- [63:08]
B
And so I think that record's amazing.
- [63:09]
A
And then.
- [63:10]
B
Yeah, when we get to the second, it's side two. If you were an album person, that's the first side. It ends with a great curve. And then when you flip it over, it's really.
- [63:20]
A
Is that really how it goes? Holy. No, hold on, let me pull that up.
- [63:23]
B
Holy.
- [63:24]
A
I didn't even. That's a. It's such a quick thing. I also wanted to say this too because I don't want to just completely like pass over because you mentioned some great things about Cross Eyed and Painless. The hip hop stuff, like, don't forget like Rappers Delight. All that only came out a couple years prior. On top of that, on top of that, the. What's his. Chris, the drummer played. Yeah, played, played drums on Curtis Blow. So they're. So they're there, man. They're, they're, they're hip, they're the CBGBs, they're the new York people. They're involved with everything. So to get something. And like you said that, that it's like it sounds like early rap influence, like, like rhythmical ranting of, of, of, of David, you know, and then in that kind of like old school rap cadence, which is, which is, you know, I always, I always used to make fun of like, like the way like white people still rap. Like it's 1980, you know, if you ever go to like a company party.
- [64:17]
B
And me are walking down the street.
- [64:19]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen everybody, I'm here to say it's it's always been that. And. And that is what is, you know, know, just to show you, like, you wouldn't look at them and think that. That Chris would be playing, you know, on, you know, one of the most important rap songs ever made. And then the great curve to give the shout out. Where did I just have it? Oh, my goodness. I just. Oh, it's Adrian Belew who sold. That's the solo that's in there. And then once again, on top of that, you're using that multiple. The process sound of the multiple effects units of using the studio as another instrument. So, you know, it's. This is like the band using overdubs and counter melodies to create a sense of constantly shifting patterns and demonstrating the one chord approach the album favored, but varying it with the layering of the textures and the rhythm instead of, like, chord changes, which is really, you know, like you said, dude, that's. I don't know how many albums have one or two chords at the most in every song.
- [65:18]
B
Pretty innovative. Especially when you consider the variety of the songs and that you don't get bored or find out repetition at all. Because they keep changing the rhythm, they keep changing the beat, they keep changing the. The sound. And his attack on every song is really different. Once in a Lifetime was one of those songs that jumps out, right? It jumped out of this album. It became sort of the big hit off the album, the Video. Of course, this is the nascent before MTV era. But when it finally. Everybody saw the video and then they started playing it. When MTV first came out, everybody saw how strong their visuals were. Because, as you always say about Chris and Tina, they made this album cover with their friends at mit. And they're the ones who had the idea for the planes on the one side and then the faces with the masks on the other, which were digitized in a very primitive, late 70s, early 80s way. But the visual content of their act was always the other element that other bands didn't have. Other bands have to bring in a person to help them visualize. Even Roxy Music had a guy that came in and did all their album covers, did their sets and stuff. But the Talking Heads were able to kind of collaborate within their own group. And, you know, they had all the elements to do that. But once in a Lifetime, I think. Is it their most popular song or is it their most famous song? Like, I don't know that anybody doesn't know that song. The Muppets did it. And it's one of the great, great fun things of this you can look online and see Kermit do it in a David Byrne outfit. And he does a legit version of it. And they absolutely do a parody with the. The camera and everything. And it's Kermit doing the. This is not My Beautiful House. And he. Yeah, that's how sort of permeated the culture that song was at that point.
- [67:11]
A
I'm trying to pull up what song is their most popular. I'm pretty sure this is Killer. Which off. Not. Not. Not a hit when it came out.
- [67:22]
B
You know, Halloween, it gets a big airing every time. Of course.
- [67:25]
A
Of course. You know, so does Monster Mansion and just the regular spooky sounds of. Spooky sounds of Halloween. Just, you know, so that's chilling.
- [67:35]
B
Sounds of the haunted house.
- [67:37]
A
Oh, my God. Which. Which. One of my favorite things is I had Kyle Kanane on doing Metal Box by Pilgrim. And which is such a hard listen, dude. I mean, it's. It's on the list. I get it.
- [67:47]
B
It's.
- [67:48]
A
It was a hard listen and it took like 10 listens before I found one thing about it that I really liked. And I. And I had Kyle on. And he goes. He said, I'm already. Said that I already buried the lead. But he goes, what was right before this Spooky sounds from Halloween. And I go, all right, you're killing it. No, so the number one. Yeah, so number one is Psycho Killer. And then they got. Must be the Place. And then Once in a Lifetime coming in at number three now. No, I know this is. This is Spotify. And, you know, it doesn't mean, you know. So a lot of people are very anti Spotify. And the people that do listen to it are probably Gen Z's and Gen X's and. And maybe whatever, the millennials. But still. I mean. Yeah, dude. When he's doing the set list. Oh, hold on. I've been playing it for some reason. I wanna. I wanna look up to here. Why? If you want to say something about it? Because I want to look up the set list that he did in his new tour because I'm pretty sure he closed with that. I. I just. I look at this as like, you know, they. Like, we were talking about that you write the music first and then you add the lyrics. What I love about this song is it is existential dread. This whole album. Existential dread. You can dance to.
- [68:52]
B
Yeah.
- [68:52]
A
You know, and I think that's really cool because it's. It's not. It's that same. What is the. It's like, it's like the Smiths. Like, you almost don't realize that they're saying this depressing or horrible about the world and alienation and how we're buying too much and we're. And we don't give a. About anything other than consumerism, whatever it is. And it's literally, you know. But it sounds really like, you know, rainbows, lollipops. Yeah, but it's really this horribly. Like, it's. I mean, once in a lifetime. It doesn't make. If you just listen to the lyrics. It's. It's not really positive, you know?
- [69:26]
B
No, I mean, I think he said most of us live our lives in a state of unconsciousness. And one day you wake up and you're like, what? I mean, I'm married. I have a crib. I have all these responsibilities. Where did my life go, Right. How did I get here? And I think a lot of people live that way, certainly. I'm sure you have relatives, Josh. And, you know, you talk to some of your cousins or whatever, and they're like, I got 16 kids and the sheriff has a restraining order, and one of them flipped the car. And I don't know, one of them spirit smoking crack and. You know what I mean? And you're like, did. At no point you decide to be involved in your life. Yeah, but that's how the world is, like, people get caught up. And I think you're exactly right. It's a. It's a meditation on. On a rumination on. What did you just say? Not depression. Existential dread. The last song is such a bummer. But like I said, if you listen to it enough, it's not a bummer. It's one of those ones that requires. What's the last one?
- [70:35]
A
The Overload.
- [70:36]
B
Yeah.
- [70:36]
A
Joy Division.
- [70:37]
B
This is.
- [70:37]
A
I. I wanted the fact that.
- [70:39]
B
Yeah, I got.
- [70:40]
A
I got.
- [70:41]
B
I got.
- [70:41]
A
I got. This is inspired by Joy Division. So right there you've get the, you know, the. The. The slow, like, almost like collapsing under pressure, you know, type stuff. And. And it's very ominous. And it's. It's burn. You know? Let me see, what did I write? Singing Someone Sedated by Modern Life. That's what I wrote. Singing like Someone Sedated by Modern Life. And I mean, very apt. You know, go ahead.
- [71:09]
B
Jumping back to once in a lifetime for just one second. The record that it reminds me of is. And I know they don't have a lot to do each other, but is. Is Shock the Monkey because it's so catchy and everybody knows both those Songs. And if you put them on at a party or a gathering, everybody knows the song and everybody. And Chocolate Monkey is not another song that's not exactly an uplifting journey through butterflies and rainbows. And they managed to do it with, like, sheer. The rhythm. The rhythm that they were. Could capture, I think really propels. You know, My wife always says to me, when you get notes at a meeting or when someone criticizes you, agree with everything they say and then do whatever you want. And I feel like those records are like, we're telling you something, but you're never going to notice what we're telling you because you're busy. We made you busy. You.
- [72:11]
A
The. The.
- [72:12]
B
The drop, the. The bass drop on the beginning of Once in a Lifetime, the beginning of the song, when it goes, that's it, you're already hypnotized. And I think Shocker Monkey has the same thing when it. There's that weird hesitation and you're completely drawn in. And remember, we listen to this stuff, Josh, on the FM radio, on the alternative stations, right? And then, like, Once in a Lifetime was the very beginning of, like, Blondie already had a couple hits on the radio. The Ramones never really had an AM hit, but these groups started to be played on AM top 40 and stuff. And that's kind of. You have to remember, like, what music sounded like when you listened to it. Then, like I said, this one is very much an album. So side one is this, and then side two is this. The beginning is Once in a Lifetime, which in those days you put on a record, you lit a joint, you lit a cigarette, you know, you're around the house, you're getting ready, whatever. And then you have to flip the record over and that's the first song that jumps out in the second half. And then when you hear it on the AM radio, everything was compressed. So the high end is, you know, critical, which is why the Beatles sound so bitching in mono, you know? You know, So, I mean, I think there's. I mean, this is all esoteric, but then this album is all esoteric.
- [73:43]
A
Yes. It's so. It's so funny. Like, we're. You're talking about. We're talking about Once in a Lifetime. And the more. The more we're talking about this record, the more that I'm like, oh, man. Like, of course you should have been doing this.
- [74:00]
B
Like this.
- [74:01]
A
I mean, this. This is like everything you've been ranting on your entire career. Like, just, you know, it's. Which is awesome that I just had wrote it down. What did I just write down? This. This record. And you are so symbiotic, especially once in a lifetime, which, because you have. You have basically built your career on pointing out, like, social, societal absurdity. Do you think. Did you know. Did you ever, like, wake up and realize you were exactly where you were meant to be?
- [74:34]
B
That's a tough one. You know, I'd like to say that I do and that I'm really Zen about it, but of course, I'm a massive insecurity. So every once in a while, and my wife will tell you, because I'm a performer, I'm extraordinarily shallow. I like to consider it reassuringly shallow so that everyone can hook into my shallowness, is that after some big event or big performance, I will feel good. And I feel like that is exactly where we're. What's all happening, what I wanted to happen. It's the world that gets in the way.
- [75:08]
A
Sure.
- [75:09]
B
Of that feeling. And I feel like really bitching artists almost live in a fantasy world because you have to build that in order to have the armor to say what you want and have the bravery and. Or the foresight or. I mean, the forbearance to move forward without listening to too many other people talk about how not popular you are. I mean, you know, if David Byrne wasn't partly, whatever you want to call it, you know, like you said, spectrumy, I don't know that this happens. It was required that he did not take in everything that was going on the way you or I might be more upset or more influenced. He's able to forge forward. Maybe not everyone in the band dug it every moment, you know, but like any great artist, I don't think Aretha Franklin was like easygoing yoga, you know what I mean? I think if you. Because she was a virtuoso, a singer. Singer and piano player, composer and all those things, she knew that about herself and she didn't really appreciate it, and other people that they weren't. And I mean, I think she was an affable, lovable person. Every story.
- [76:32]
A
Yeah, come on.
- [76:33]
B
But I also think she was.
- [76:37]
A
A.
- [76:38]
B
Virtuoso that was not, you know, I don't.
- [76:43]
A
She was. Her Elements Rock. She's. She's. She's stable. Like, she's, you know, she had been through it, but, like, you see her, she is not like. Like, you know, she's not like fire like Mick Jagger or, like, you know. You know, I would call, like, you know, Nina Simone, you know, fire or, you know, or some Artist or water. Like, she was stoned. She was grounded. And so. And so. Yeah. Whereas someone like, you know, I think someone like David and is. Is almost water. He's so fluid that he's just like. He just can go wherever and. And. And he's like, oh, I'm gonna do this kind of style of music. I'm gonna do funk now. And it's like, you look at him, you're like, there's no way. You're funky punk. I also think that you are too, like, you're water too big, but you're all. You're water, but you got some heat in you. So you're like a nice hot spring. You got a little. So you can. You're fire, but you're also got. You got the. You can move around, you know. Okay, perfect. So, yeah. So. So let's hear. Let's. We'll do. Because the main one I really want to talk about. We already talked about Once in a Lifetime. And by the way, it was not the closer. The closer is Burning down the House. He goes. The set list would go. And this is on his new thing. So he closes the first. First half, his first set, with Psycho Killer, into Life During Wartime, into Once in a Lifetime. Then he does the encore, Everybody's Coming to My House, which is. Excuse me, one of his newer songs. Then he ends with Burning down the house, which 6 to 12 is half a dozen. You could close with Once in a Lifetime. You could close it. Burning down the House. It all is just at this point, you are in. And by the way, I want to give a shout out to. To David, the new music that he's playing. It's not like you're like, dude, just get to the heads, man. Get to the talking Heads. He really. The songs are great. I, like, I said, dude, you know, I choked up when he did Heaven. I choked up when he did Strange Overtones. I loved T Shirt. I loved the one Everybody laughs about Everybody. I mean, it's just a fun show. So if he is touring, I can't recommend it. Go see him. But when I mentioned earlier, the song that I just have so attracted to off this record is the one after Once in a Lifetime and that's Houses in Motion. I. I just. Just love this song. And I mean, like, I think I. I think Life After Wartime is my favorite Talking head song. But there's something about Houses in Motion. It's so groovy. And then. Yeah, and then. And Greg, it's the same I said about the Smiths where It's. It's literally, like, lyrically about, you know, suggesting about paranoia, about domestic life. It's about capitalism. It's about emotional isolation. It's just. It's arguably, like I said, it's my favorite track on the record. You know, go ahead. What do you love? What do you. Any thoughts on it? I know you do got something.
- [79:20]
B
Well, I mean, I love. I would say that's probably my favorite one, too. That one in Cross Island. Painless and Houses in Motion are probably my two favorite tracks on the record. I love Once in a While. It's a good record. My favorite Talking Edge record is probably Burning down the House or Girlfriend is better. Because I love Bernie Worrell from Funkadelic on the keyboards, on the synth. And I think he just, you know, having that element. When I saw them, I couldn't have been more excited that they had a funk band with them, because I'm a huge funk fan, and if you ask me to do it again, maybe we'll pick a funk record next time. But I love that you're definitely.
- [79:59]
A
Greg, you're coming back, dude. Don't worry.
- [80:00]
B
You're coming. Bernie Worrell's one of the great. You know, like, George Clinton didn't write music and he doesn't play an instrument, and George Clinton wrote all those songs. And I think Bernie Worrell's a big part of that, you know, and the whole sound and the snap that he gives the Talking Heads. And by the way, when this record came out, they did a few concerts and they had an extended band and they had more background singers, including the background singers that were going to be in the next album, Burning Down House album. But they only did a few shows, and then they all went and did other projects, and then they came back for Speaking In Tongues, so it's really wild. Like, before this album, they kind of all did solo things. After this album, then they went and did the TomTom club. Then when they came back for Speaking In Tongues, it's all configured differently, you know.
- [80:59]
A
Yeah.
- [80:59]
B
And they weren't doing a lot of songs off this record on that tour. What they did once in a lifetime, I think. But they. You know what I mean? Like, it was another bag. But I think I would agree with you that this one, sonically, I think you're probably. If you're gonna listen to one Talking Heads record over and over, this might be the one.
- [81:20]
A
Yes, I agree completely. I could. I. This is the one that I would give people that never have heard Talking Heads before for. And then I would probably give them the live record. I would probably give them that. Yeah. It's just. It's such a. I mean, dude, it's. They're a visual band. They're a visual. They're just as important. And it's not. It's not like Pink Floyd visual or Grateful Dead visual, where it's like about the. The kaleidoscope images behind him. It's. It's what. It's what David and the band have created on stage. Dude, to see a David Byrne concert, it's like, I. You know, you could go see, like, look, I. I love what Radiohead's doing right now. They're with. Their show now is in the.
- [81:59]
B
The.
- [82:00]
A
The. The way that the music and the images that are up there that I had at the shows in England that I was at are. Are amazing.
- [82:06]
B
But.
- [82:06]
A
But it's like. But it's like what. But it's not about that when it comes to this band. It is about what they're doing, what they're wearing, the dances, whatever the. He's creating. I mean, dude, that's what made that Radio City show so special. It didn't. And everything in Utopia before think he's. Every different show that he's done has just been, you know, so him. So ahead of its time.
- [82:32]
B
And I.
- [82:32]
A
And just. And I were seeing Houses in Motion there, which is, I think, is one of the first times I really was like, oh, I really like this. And then to listen to it now and go, oh, my God, like, this is really dark. But yet it just. You can't not like.
- [82:47]
B
You can't.
- [82:47]
A
Not just, like, kibbits to it.
- [82:50]
B
It's a real trick to make a record like that. Right. That you can dance to that. That is. That is intellectually, you know, challenging.
- [82:58]
A
Yeah. I wanted to ask you because you. You've. You've met so many people that are so creative, you know, you. And going off of, like, Houses in Motion is like. Is. Is it. Is. Is stability. Is stability overrated? You know, when it comes to being a creative person, or does. Or does the chaos, you know, get. Get exhausting? Like, you know, is it because, I mean, some people that we've met and I know that you've worked with and I've worked with are just geniuses, and yet their whole lives are just. Are they almost. You can almost see what's going on in their head is being dictated. Like, do you feel like to be a creative person, you have to. You have to have, in a sense, that kind of chaos in your life? Or can you, you know, or can you be stable and. And still have that? You know, it's kind of the eternal.
- [83:48]
B
Artistic question, isn't it? It's easier to be unstable when you're in your 20s and 30s, because everything isn't written yet. And then you're also. You don't care as much about financial stability or whatever. You're willing to take a complete chance and be poor and go wild.
- [84:06]
A
Yeah.
- [84:06]
B
And then I think if you have any kind of security in you, you know, like, I'm married. I have a house. I still think that my opinions are not ready for everybody. So I try to. I think of something that the author, Doris Lessing, said. People always say stuff like, josh, I'm gonna write my book. When things calm down a little bit.
- [84:32]
A
Yeah, yeah, right.
- [84:33]
B
When my life sort of settles, then I'm gonna write my song, I'm gonna make my book, I'm gonna paint my painting. And her quote was, it's never gonna be less. Start right now.
- [84:44]
A
Yeah.
- [84:46]
B
So that's my answer to that question. It's like, I feel crazy half the time. I feel pushed, exhausted. I'm freaked out about having to do the new album in two weeks time because I don't have any ideas lined up, but I know that I will have them lined up by the time I do, and that I will be forced into activity. And then on top of that, the audience pressure will force me to. To be as funny as humanly possible as opposed to jerking around. So I think that it's a. It's a combo platter. You can't be so comfortable that you get fat and don't give a shit about what's going on in the world.
- [85:22]
A
Totally.
- [85:23]
B
But you can be. You have to maintain an. Not an equilibrium, but an equipoise so that you're on edge, but you're also not freaking out, you know? So, I mean, that's my answer. It's like I'm desperate not to be irrelevant. And the reason, the way you stay relevant is to still feel. You have to feel all the time what's going on and how do I feel about it? How does everyone else feel about it? You know what I mean? You can't. I've seen comics get up who I thought were doing very well for themselves, and it's clear they haven't been out enough lately.
- [86:05]
A
Interesting. Yeah.
- [86:06]
B
You know what I mean? Or you'll see a band and you think you guys are kind of just doing a thing and you're a little bit comfortable. Right. Now, which sometimes is fine. That's all you want. As someone once said, everything doesn't have to be, you know, completely challenging. David Bird's not that kind of artist. The talking weren't that kind of artists. They were the kind of artists that were going to change it up every goddamn time, do something different, you know, I mean, Mick Jagger always talks about it and then fantastically, they make the same sort of record over and over.
- [86:37]
A
Yeah, but come on, dude, like he. You can't deny. I mean, look, it's.
- [86:41]
B
No, you can't deny it at all.
- [86:42]
A
They're amazing. It's. Dude, it's. It's the greatest. The greatest thing my buddy Angelo Bowers ever said we were talking about. I'm not going to name the name of the comedian, but it was like, he's apple pie, he's pizza. Everybody loves pizza. He goes, we're radishes. Not everybody loves a radish, but some people love radishes. And it's okay to be a radish. It's okay to be an acquired taste and it's okay to be apple pie. Dude, I. You can on Coldplay all you want. If you go to a Coldplay concert, you are going to walk out happy. It is, it is. It is musical Prozac. Is it lame? Sure. But is it beautiful and fun? Yes. And is it beautiful and fun to see an 84 year old British guy that should have been dead years ago and a guitarist who's, you think, looks like he's barely hanging on, go up there and play these songs that we love and still do it with the same kind of intensity. And then now I'm going to switch this over to David to. It's so cool to see a guy in his 70s challenging himself every time he does a tour with something that it's not like, dude, it's not like he's just going up there and mailing it in. Neither of them are either one of those. And I bet you they both fucking. If they ran, they're in a room together, they both look at you. It's like we're completely different. But God damn, we're both doing it right. We're doing our thing, right? And I agree.
- [88:00]
B
Josh.
- [88:01]
A
Yeah.
- [88:02]
B
You gotta believe it, man. You gotta believe it and you gotta give it your all. I think we all know when someone's phoning it in and they're not phoning it in. And easily both of them could have retired years ago, Years ago. But that's not the point, you know? I mean, the Other day on the bus, Ryan said to me, we were talking about something else. And then he went, did the idea of retirement come up? I swear to you, this really happened. 3. About a week ago. And I said. And I said, retire from what? I said, retire to do what? And Ryan, fantastically. There was a beat, and he sits in the back of the bus. He went to watching tapes of our show. And then I knew he didn't want to retire, but he threw it out there, like, oh, I'm tired. You know, because we do. We did 110 dates this year.
- [88:48]
A
Yeah, I mean, it's. Dude, it's exhausting to be on the road. I don't give a who you are, which level you're flying.
- [88:52]
B
I was.
- [88:52]
A
Dude, this summer I was. I was with a. A huge. I'm doing a stadium tour with. With Jelly, and we're flying private jets. And it's. It gets exhausting, dude. Doesn't make a difference how you're traveling. You know, when you're in your early 20s. Yes. But, you know, 40s, 50s, 60s, up to 70s and 80s. I mean, it hurts, dude. It hurts getting up after four hours of sleep.
- [89:11]
B
Yeah, it does. And like you said, you don't know where you are, that we played a. We played a casino last year in Canada. And right before you go on stage there. There was a sign right next to the stage as you're walking toward the microphone that said, you are in Saskatoon. And it had the name of the room. And I thought, why doesn't every theater have that? It was literally right there so that it was the last thing you saw, because so many people come on stage and go, hello, Wyoming. And they're like, montana. Montana.
- [89:41]
A
You know, dude, nah, I got you beat. I got you beat. This is my last. We were. The first tour I did with Jelly Roll. We were. We did Jacksonville, and then our last show is in Tampa. And right before I go up the. Paulie, my. My stage manager, I go, where are we? And he'd be like, you're in Jacksonville. And then I'd run out, be like, jacksonville. And it's the lat. And I do three sets every night. And the last set is fully full amphitheater, fully full stadium, whatever the it is. And I. We're in Tampa, and I. This the only time, the whole tour, 45 dates. I never asked Paulie, where are we? I just got. I swear to God, every set. We did all three sets, all. Every show for 45 shows. I'd ask him. This one. I didn't we're in Tampa. I grabbed the mic and I go, Jacksonville. And he looks at me like, what the. And I go, was what I was where we were last night? Tampa. What the is up? And like, it just, it was so like, dude, it's, it's exhaust. You don't even. I, dude, I don't. It's. It's crazy the way that, the way that performers and touring musicians travel and, and. But then, you know, to go off. What, what, what. You know what he said on tour, it's like, dude, it's like, what else are we gonna do? You know? Like, if we love it, we love it, dude, we love it. And I don't want to do anything else. And it's, you know, you always hear those stories. You know, it's the same thing I say with my dog. My dog's nine years old and she looks like she's six. And I take her all over the world. I take her to London, I take her to, I take her to la, we fly every weekend and people like, she looks so young and she's so active as a nine year old Doberman. It's like, because we didn't stop and we, we haven't had a chance to get old. We're just constantly doing stuff and doing something that we love. And she loves being around me and meeting people and I love performing and you know, you love performing. You're so good at it. I wanted to say too, man, before we, we wrap this up, man, like, I love that you said that the chaos of, of that leading up must be going on, getting ready to do this, this album. But dude, you've done so many. I mean, that's so cool that you still freak out right before you're like, what the am I gonna talk about? And yet you've nailed it every time. And that's what's beautiful. And I think that's probably what keeps you wanting to do it. That challenge of like the fear into the excitement, into the satisfaction of finishing it, you know, and doing something that, that most people can't do and doing it at the highest level. So yeah, dude, you're gonna kill it, you know? You will.
- [92:01]
B
Thank you, man. Yeah, no, it is. That's the excitement of it and also the, you know, letting yourself go so that everything. You're not married to perfection, you know, you're just trying as hard as you can the times you hit it. Also making a record, like I get four chances, so I get to listen to all four shows and then whatever works the best Here and there. Of course you wish it was better, but I think of Leonard Cohen. What is it? Cracks are where the light shines through.
- [92:31]
A
Do you watch? Not to get us off topic. Did you watch the. And I. I can't recommend it enough. And I don't know how big of a fan you are of his, but the Jeff Buckley documentary on.
- [92:39]
B
But I am a fan and I, I would.
- [92:41]
A
I mean, it's just. It's just so phenomenal. And it's like, you know, I guess I'm gonna ask you this before we go into the final questions because we got to wrap this up. You gotta get out here. I gotta get out of here. I gotta go get tacos done at Chewy's in downtown la. This is the only hour of the whole week I have to do this. And, And I. And I'll say this, dude, I, I, Please come back on. I, I, I love having you on. You know, I guess this is how am I. Because I had one question, but then I was like, yeah, it is. Is the Talking Heads? Are we talking about them? The way that we're talking about them is remain in light. As important. Is it. If it, if it just would have been David and Brian. Are we talking about this record? Is this one of their best records? You know, were David and Brian, like, would they have. Would they have made this record? Or do you think it's the, the sum of all parts that, that put this album as one of.
- [93:34]
B
As.
- [93:35]
A
As Talking Head's greatest record and one of the greatest records ever made?
- [93:39]
B
I think you're right. It wouldn't have. It is the sum of all of its parts. I think Jerry brings Nona in. I think Chris and Tina bring in a whole other element of downtown stuff they were listening to. I mean, downtown New York, that they're very downtown art band and as opposed to Uptown. I don't know if we still use those phrases about New York, but you know what I mean?
- [94:03]
A
Uptown ain't doing shit no more, dude. I mean, it's got the beacon. There ain't nothing going on in Uptown. It's all downtown, baby.
- [94:10]
B
Yeah, but no, I think you're right. I think Brian's an element that is required for this album, but I don't think it's an album without all of them. And I think that's what gives it more punch and more resonance. And also, you know, like you say Tina and Jerry and Chris are very good. Their ideas are not to be discounted at all. So I think they're. It's Some of its parts. And. And maybe, like you said, they all agreed to disagree and just make this great sonic statement.
- [94:43]
A
What. What is another. What is another band that had this kind of problem? And then I don't. Because I'm trying to think of it. Who has gone from. Gone from somebody with, you know, and I don't want to call Brian. Not Brian David having, what they call it lead singer disorder, which is just like, I'm the genius and this is the way we go, because I'm the front man and everybody sees me. It's not that he's. He is, like we said, this autistic guy, but has also met the genius of Brian Eno, where they're starting to connect on this level, which is now you have two geniuses, probably are both on the spectrum and are both ones that are, like, feeling each other and, you know, and. And Brian is no one to be sneezed at at this point in his career because he has the resume to back it up. What is interesting, though, is, like, what. Was there another band that came this close to probably breaking up and then put out their best record? I mean, wow, who. I'm trying to think, who. Who else? And more. This would be the perfect place for Morty to be here because he would have been like, right, this band and this band and this man. Who do you think is it? Because I don't. I. I really personally don't know. I always see it once you get past that point that, like, you know, once you get defcon. I just watched that. That new movie about the. The. That's why I brought up DEFCON with the Catherine Bigelow movie. Whatever it is. The. About the. With Idris Elba as president. Once you get to Defcon 3, it's. It's pretty much you're going to be in nuclear war, you know, right away. So is there another band that came this close to breaking up, but. And then completely came out with their best record? I mean, do you have. I personally can't think of anybody.
- [96:09]
B
No. That's a very good question. Off the top of my head, no. When I think of all the big mainstream bands and giant pop bands, I can't think of one that there was bands that hated each other. Traditionally, the Ramones didn't speak and the who hated each other and took four different cars, but I don't know that they ever came together for a magnum opus like this. I think this required a real intellectual gymnastics and real emotional covering for everyone to kind of, you know. You know, he. It Is what it is, as we say in Hollywood, and. And not not, like, flip out of you. You. What did Ed. What did David Lee Roth say before they broke up and became Ben Hagar or whatever? He said, I can't wait to get back into the studio and argue my way into the top 10 with Edward, because I don't think they got along, you know, at all.
- [97:06]
A
I mean, David. Can you imagine. Can you imagine how big David's ego is? Because he's the front guy. He's the sexy guy. Yeah. And Eddie is the genius. He's the one of the greatest guitar players has ever lived. And without him, you don't have. David's still just this cool front. And David would have found it regardless. He would have been in a band and. And, you know, so you can't. You can't sneeze and just be like, nah, he's nobody without Eddie. But yeah, dude, that's like. That's a marriage that is on the rocks.
- [97:34]
B
Yeah.
- [97:36]
A
What a different guy to then get tequila drinking. Sammy Hagar, like, all right, come on. Right now. Here we go. By the way, I got busted with cocaine at his bar, Cabo Wabo in Cabo San Lucas. Didn't get in trouble. 200 pesos later out on the street, totally fine. But, yeah, big shout out to the flushing toilets that they have at the. At the Cabo Wabo.
- [97:59]
B
Oh, my goodness. You almost ended up in Mexican prison. That's terrible.
- [98:02]
A
Yeah. But, dude, I'm telling you, I dropped the coke bag into his toilet. And you would never think that the Cabo Wabo in Cabo San Lucas would have automatic flushing toilets, which then took the bag and then I had nothing. So they had. They. They basically were just holding me as like, he.
- [98:16]
B
This.
- [98:16]
A
He's got white on his face, and I'm like, that's salt from the margarita. Come on, man. Like, I mean, that ain't coke.
- [98:22]
B
Yeah.
- [98:23]
A
I'm moving my jaw like this. Drinks are strong. It's big shout out to Sammy Hagar, and I love having that connection to him. What I'm gonna do to all the listeners, because I want to clip this and put this out on one of our things. I want you guys to tell us what bands you think or that, you know, were at the end of their. Of their runs or about to be the end of their run, and then coming out with. With one of their. With their best record. Because, I mean, I. I'm just. I'm really at a loss. I mean, it's not Metallica. I mean, I Just the bands that are popping in are like. I just. I don't see it. So please let us know. And, Greg, please come back. And. And. And I mean it, dude. You are. You are just. You are just so much fun to have on. It's so funny. I'm like, all right, I got time to do an hour. And then I'm like, that. You can't. We get with you, dude, I'm telling you.
- [99:13]
B
You.
- [99:13]
A
You just. Because even Morty was like. Was like, dude, are you ready to do this? I'm like, I'm on with Greg. Like, I don't have to worry about anything. He'll cover the loose ends. I just gotta ask him and bring up something. So thank you, dude, as usual, and thank you for doing this so short notice. All right, final questions we ask everybody. Favorite song on the record. I said, mine's House is in motion. What do you got?
- [99:34]
B
I'm gonna say cross. Cross. Cross eyed and painless.
- [99:39]
A
Perfect. Yeah, I see that. I. I mean, listen. And the next question, I think goes without saying, is this a no skip record? And if so, if you do skip anything, what do you. I. Honest to God, I. I think this is. This is a damn near perfect record. We. We said it earlier. This is just my opinion. You might have a different one. I'm pretty sure it's probably spot on with me, but it's just. You're getting. You're getting such a good groove throughout this whole thing that it's like, I didn't want it to end at all. Like, I really. I really didn't want this record to end. I. I'm so glad there's extended versions and there's so many more cool things to listen to. But thoughts on this? Is there anything that you skip over? No.
- [100:18]
B
I was. At first, I was gonna say once in a lifetime, but only because I've heard it a million times. Listening through it the other day, I quite enjoyed it again. And then I was gonna say the last song, the. I keep blanking on the name of the last song. The depressing one. The overload. Yes. And then, like I said, with repeated listings, it takes on a different life. So I would say, no, this isn't one that you skip. I said, this is one you put on one. I listened to it on a Sunday afternoon, and it was like, you know, and Jennifer listened to it with me, and there was. Everybody just loved it. It's just a really groovy record. Like you said, it's groovy.
- [100:59]
A
Perfect. Perfect way to say it. And Also then on the 2006 reissue, there's some bonus tracks that I think are really cool for everybody.
- [101:05]
B
I need to listen to that one. I listen to the regular one because.
- [101:07]
A
Of this.
- [101:10]
B
And all that, you know, which I was thinking about, we always talk about on the show. But the two records we've talked about definitely had on vinyl. And that was my experience of amino.
- [101:21]
A
Dude, it is. It is. You know, you get like. You get some unfinished outtakes. You can kind of see where they might have gone, where they went, where they got some stuff. Also, I'm. I'm just seeing this now, and I don't give a if anybody thinks this is cool, but I think you're gonna find this cool. I don't know if the other listeners are playing. Playing percussion on one of the songs. It doesn't say which one or on multiple songs is Robert Palmer.
- [101:47]
B
Yeah, I read that. Isn't that amazing?
- [101:50]
A
You're addicted to love, dude. Talk about having a guy that had a moment. That guy had a moment.
- [101:55]
B
Yeah. I love that he was on the record next door. While they were making this record next door in the Bahamas was AC DC doing Back in Black.
- [102:04]
A
Oh, for real? Yeah.
- [102:06]
B
They were in studio, baby. ACD series and Studio A.
- [102:09]
A
That'd be. I love that. I love. I love that. Two of the most, especially we brought them up earlier about doing the same thing over and over. And that's their biggest. I mean, highway to Hell is. Is the. Is the. Is the one. But I mean, that's the one that. I mean, that's like. That's what. That's the Michael. That's what. That's like Thriller. That's like on the level of. Of of, you know, Def Leppard, Hysteria and Mutt Lang. Dude. Big shout out to Muddy Lang.
- [102:32]
B
That dude park in the world that doesn't play Hell's Bells.
- [102:37]
A
Oh, my God. But what. But also, like, what is. What is it with Sweden? Why does Sweden keep producing these incredible, like, producers and writers? Whether it's abba, whether it's. I think Max Martin, like, all these. The guys that did all the Britney Spears doctor, I think.
- [102:51]
B
What about the scars guards?
- [102:53]
A
You know what it is? It's. Don't they kill the week there? Don't they kill the. Yeah, the scars guards. Oh, my God, dude, I'm not gonna get into Eugenics. What am I talking about? I'm like, don't they. Nope. All right, another thing. All right, second to last question. Can you. To this record?
- [103:10]
B
Oh, I think so, yes.
- [103:13]
A
I mean, it's got a groove. It's definitely like. I think it's more. I think it's more orgy music than it is just singular, you know what I mean? Like, it's just got that groove. And I could see, like, you know, that this. It just feels like there's a lot of hands all over you, you know, like a. Like a loft in soho with a bunch of, like, rich, you know, or. Or at the Blue Martini in. In Scottsdale, Arizona, where I just was. Which, you know, it was basically the ice storm in a restaurant. You know, big ups to Ang Lee. And. And final question, and I feel like you might already said it, but what's your elevator pitch to get somebody to listen to this record? Or how do you, you know, how do you sum it up? Because I feel like we've nailed it a million times over. But just to give one little less.
- [103:59]
B
I would say, you know, expand. Your is a record that will surprise you, and you can, at the end of the day, it'll warm its way into your heart because you can dance to it and you. You don't have to overanalyze it at all. Let it wash over you.
- [104:14]
A
I. I love you said it earlier. If it's like, somebody's going to be like, oh, man, I keep hearing about this pants. All the hip that Gen Z is loving right now, that's coming back. And LCD never went anywhere. You know, they've been. They've been doing this residency in Brooklyn that is. People are just so excited about. And I did a bunch of festivals with them in the summer of 2016. One of them Outside Lands, and. And every time I saw them, they blew me away. Bonnaroo blew me away. And I've seen him since then. And I would. I would trade 45 LCD sound system shows and end Vampire Weekend and Paul Simon. I'll trade all this. That. That came somehow because of this. And just so I could see an original grouping performance of Talking Heads doing one song off this record. I don't need multiple. I mean, it's. It's. It's really becoming the band that, that the. The older I get, the more I'm just attracted to everything about them, you know, support everything that these guys do in their own ways. You know, listen to the records Jerry produced because I feel like, you know, the time that he spent with Brian and David has helped influence him. He was already a musical genius, but it's like, to be able to, like, work with someone like Brian Eno, dude, if you can take the band live and make them sound like the Joshua Tree by you two. I mean, go yourself, dude. That's insane. And. And last but not least, like, go see David Byrne. Like, go see him, because he is. He's one of the last few artistic geniuses out there that is still pushing the boundaries and he's still making sure if you're gonna spend $75 to 100 DOL show, you're gonna get a show. And it doesn't have to be smoke effects. It doesn't have to be, you know, shooting confetti at the final hit of their last song. It is just him with a group of these weirdly cast people dancing on stage in a singular outfit. And it is one of the most entertaining things I've ever seen. Greg, promote away anything you want to promote one last time. I mean, we love you. And we'll make sure we tell everybody when the album comes out too.
- [106:17]
B
Thanks, Josh. Yeah, I gotta jump in, but Before I go, Gregproofs.com I'm in San Francisco at the Punchline on New Year's Eve, the 30th, 31st, making another record. My record that I made before last year is right there. Greg Prout's Free State of California. I'm very proud of it. It's very funny. The 21st will be at the Los Feliz 3 theater showing inocha with the Greg Croops Film Club that my wife Jennifer, I mean, curates. And then next year, we're back on the road with who's Live. Anyway, for a zillion trillion dates, we'll be in San Francisco at Davis hall on February 15, which is a great big fancy concert hall in San Francisco where they do classical music. And we will have Drew Carey and Gary Anthony Williams with us on that show.
- [106:59]
A
Oh, go see him if he's out there, guys. Get his record. Support the. Support Greg, in any way you can. Once again, we'll see you soon. Thank you so much for coming on, brother.
- [107:07]
B
Thank you, buddy.
- [107:08]
A
What did I tell you? What did I tell you? The one and only Greg Probs. Follow him on Instagram at gregproofs on his website GregProops.com see him at the Punchline New Year Eve. Support this man@gregpoops.com and make sure you catch him on tour. And Whose Line is in anyway, when they go on tour, who's live.com not line, l, I V E and listen to his podcast with his wife, Smartest man in the world. For new music, we just listened to Remain In Light by talking heads from 1980 DistroKid. Our proud sponsor has brought you bad suns. And you can find links to the music on your website. Website. Our website. Your website. All of our website. The500podcast.com. And next week it's Iggy and the stooge with raw power 128. And if this guest comes through, it's a goody two shoes. Guys. I love you. Thank you for listening. You guys are what keeps it going. We'll see you soon. Bye bye. You from the moon Concrete flowers in bloom if I open up my eyes. Get back on track There goes that oh no, I'm under attack Give me the truth give me proof have some fun with the facts Head drinks on me literally it's time to clean up my eyes to open up my eyes.
- [109:07]
B
Don'T let it keep you down don't let it keep you down get up, get down.
- [109:25]
A
All the way. See you tomorrow. Let it out, let it go there's nothing that you can't do Let it out, let it go I'll see you tomorrow. But don't let keep it down. The 500. Keeping it please see for the Police.
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B
Nation.
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A
On the 500. The 500. And Doug, here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual.
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B
Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug Limu.
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B
Hey, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. You know one of the perks about.
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A
Having four kids that you know about.
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B
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A
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B
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B
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