131 - Television - Marquee Moon - Wil Wheaton

Summary

Podcast Summary: The 500 with Josh Adam Meyers

Episode 131 – Television – "Marquee Moon" – Wil Wheaton

Date: December 10, 2025

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode of The 500 with Josh Adam Meyers features Wil Wheaton (actor, writer, podcaster) as guest, diving deep into Television’s seminal 1977 album Marquee Moon (#130 on Rolling Stone’s 500 Greatest Albums list). Through a lively and heartfelt discussion, Josh and Wil connect the album’s influence on punk and post-punk, Wil’s discovery and connection to the record, and broader themes of art, trauma, performance, and healing. The episode is as much about artistic legacy and personal reflection as it is about the music itself.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Legacy and Discovery of Marquee Moon

[03:24–06:42]

• Cult Status: Not a mainstream smash, but "one of those things where…if you know music, you know it." – Josh Adam Meyers
• Wil’s Discovery: Wil only encountered Television via “Prove It” in Stranger Things (approx. 8 years ago), despite a deep background in punk and goth music. His discovery led to a mind-blown appreciation (“every band I love… is influenced by this record.” – Wil, [09:12]).

[10:18–13:18]

• Influence: Artists like New Order and Joy Division cite Marquee Moon as a favorite. Critically, the album’s sharp, “angular” guitar sound was unlike much else in the disco-heavy 1977 landscape; it prefigured punk while not quite fitting it.
• Recording Mythos: The title track was recorded in a single take, legendary for its raw immediacy (Wil: “That raw, perfectly rehearsed, incredibly intensely familiar sensation is in that music.” [13:18])

2. Artistic Courage and Influence

[16:53+]

• Ahead of Its Time: Josh argues the record sounds at least “five or six years ahead of its time,” more post-punk than punk.
• Velvet Underground Parallel: The idea that “not everybody bought [the album], but everybody who did started a band” is discussed and compared to Big Star and Velvet Underground.
• New York Context: The album evokes “grimy, sooty” 1970s NYC, full of "steam and subway grates" ([19:01–19:24])

3. Musical Structure and Emotional Resonance

[20:41–22:27]

• Wil’s Connection: The album “connects to a different piece of me… there’s a warm bath quality to this album. I can just settle into this record and ride it until it’s over.”
• Lasting Impact: Both hosts reflect on new bands, like Geese, and how the influence of Television is generational and sometimes unconscious ([23:22–24:05]).

4. On the Relationship Between Art, Pain, and Healing

Wil and Josh’s Personal Reflections, [29:41–68:53]

• Wil draws parallels between Marquee Moon's mythical one-take and a similar scene from Stand By Me (the junkyard/post-dog chase)—artistic moments where the magic cannot be replicated.
• Wil’s Journey: He discusses his abusive childhood, professional struggles, and finding healing through sobriety and therapy – “I finally feel genuine ownership of a lot of the stuff that I’ve done that was always mine to begin with.” ([68:53])
• Music as Salve: Punk’s welcoming community and music’s power as a companion for loneliness, healing, or just “to let me get out anger and aggression… in a place where that was safe to do” ([41:44], [73:30–74:31])
• Wil’s advice to listeners: “You’re enough. There’s nothing wrong with you. It’s them.” ([70:10])

5. Deep Dive on Stand By Me and Artistic Ensemble

[27:22–62:59]

• Wil takes the opportunity to parallel the creative magic and ensemble-working in both Marquee Moon and Stand By Me. Casting, group rehearsals, and the director’s focus on emotional authenticity are highlighted.
• The power of having the “right ingredients” (casting, rehearsal, mutual trust) is compared to the band’s chemistry.
• Wil talks candidly about his relationships with his Stand By Me co-stars through the years and how their real-life pain fuelled authentic performances.

6. Memories and Meaning of Star Trek

[97:35–103:43]

• Wil’s lifelong love of Star Trek and what it meant, not only professionally but as a guiding set of values (“secular humanism”).
• Cast treated him as family, more supportive than his actual family, offering vital support that kept him away from destructive paths that claimed peers.

7. Track-by-Track Album Discussion (Condensed)

[79:49–149:34]

• See No Evil: Opening line welcomes the listener into an “edgy, angular” world, both musically and thematically.
• Venus: Dreamy, ambiguous, evocative of New York cool and ennui.
• Friction: Described as the “signature Television sound,” Wil’s favorite (“..intense cascading guitar sound that makes me feel like Indiana Jones running from the boulder,” [139:45])
• Marquee Moon (title track): “Club music for CBGB’s, not arena rock.” The myth of the one-take, and its almost-literal preservation of a moment in time ([110:29–113:34])
• Musical influence traced from Television to Sonic Youth, Big Star, REM, and modern acts like Geese.
• Both hosts urge listeners to seek out entire albums, not just algorithmically-curated playlists—a plea for “deep listening as intended by the artist.” ([143:04])

8. Reflections on Art and Legacy

[125:17–136:53]

• Wil identifies his “Marquee Moon moment” as moments of real authenticity in memoir writing and performance—where the first take, or first draft, nails the truth.
• The desire for artistic meaning and legacy trumps fame or money. “Art is that it endures, and that not all art brings money and fame, but all art brings artistic satisfaction.” ([133:35])
• Both hosts reflect on whether the band ever fully realized, in their lifetimes, the enormous impact of their work (parallels to Lovecraft, Frida Kahlo).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On discovery & influence:
  “Every band I love…is influenced by this record.”
  — Wil Wheaton [09:12]

• On the impact of one-take recording:
  “To me, that is the equivalent of getting to see a legendary live performance where something happens that never happens again.”
  — Wil Wheaton [13:18]

• On artistic courage:
  “Can you imagine what kind of courage it takes to tell Brian Eno no. In 1976?”
  — Wil Wheaton [115:04]

• On perfection & ensemble:
  “Lightning in a bottle…you get certain things once.”
  — Josh Adam Myers [32:16]

• On healing & self-worth:
  “You’re enough. There’s nothing wrong with you. It’s them.”
  — Wil Wheaton [70:10]

• On music as lasting companion:
  “Music is not background noise ever. Music is a companion. Music is something that carries me through things. It keeps me safe…”
  — Wil Wheaton [41:44]

• On the risk and innovation of Marquee Moon:
  “No one had done anything like this. This was new. This was so risky, so bold, such a clear, inspired, unambiguous artistic vision…”
  — Wil Wheaton [149:34]

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Important Timestamps

• Wil's personal story with Marquee Moon:
  [06:42–10:18]
• Influence on other bands/genres:
  [10:18–13:18], [23:22–24:05]
• Parallels between Marquee Moon and Stand By Me moment:
  [27:22–32:14]
• Wil’s reflections on trauma, healing, and music as a lifeline:
  [41:44–74:31]
• Star Trek stories & legacy:
  [97:35–103:43]
• Track-by-track discussion:
  [79:49–149:31]
• Wil’s “Marquee Moon moment” & reflections on legacy:
  [119:15–126:54]
• Album "elevator pitch"
  [146:27–147:52]
• Wrap-up & favorite song picks:
  [139:23–143:59]

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Closing Thoughts

Wil Wheaton and Josh Adam Meyers use Television’s Marquee Moon as a springboard for a nuanced, emotionally rich discussion that is as much about processing trauma and the search for artistic meaning as about punk history or musical technique. Wil’s journey—from late discovery of the album to deep research, and his parallels between the magic of musical and cinematic ensembles—makes for one of the podcast’s most resonant, empathetic episodes. Both hosts advocate for the enduring healing force of music and the bravery it enables and inspires, both in its creation and forever in its echo.

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Recommended For:

Fans of music history, punk/post-punk, Wil Wheaton, Stand By Me, the intersection of trauma and art, and anyone seeking to understand why certain records mean so much to so many—even when not everyone bought them, everyone who did started a band.

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LISTENER GUIDE TO THIS EPISODE

• Looking for band history & Marquee Moon mythos?
  • Listen: [04:48–13:18]
• For heart-to-heart on personal trauma & healing:
  • Listen: [41:44–74:31]
• Want discussion of how punk/post-punk evolved from Television?
  • Listen: [16:53–26:10], [117:13–118:01]
• For detailed track talking:
  • Listen: [79:49–117:13]
• Curious about Wil's reflections on Star Trek and ensemble art?
  • Listen: [97:35–107:26]
• Wrap-up, favorite songs, and album "elevator pitch":
  • Listen: [139:23–147:52]

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Favorite Song Picks

• Wil Wheaton: "Friction"
• Josh Adam Myers: "Prove It" (but loves "Friction" too)

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Wil’s closing insight:
"We only get one life and it's unimaginably brief… How lucky are we to have been on the planet at the same time as this art?" ([137:01])

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[For more: Wil Wheaton's podcast — Story Time, tour dates, and writing at willwheaton.net.]

Transcript

[Wil Wheaton]

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[Josh Adam Myers]

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[Wil Wheaton]

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[Josh Adam Myers]

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The 500.

The 500J been walking us down through that 2012 edition so it ain't nothing too new. Hundreds more to go. When in need of a friend the king of peace for angelo Talking the 500 until the end Talking the 500 until the end with my man JM.

On the 500 Talking the 500 until the end.

That is Mark He Moon. It's by television from the 1977 record of the same name. It's also number 130 out of 500 on the 500. What's up everybody? I'm Josh. Adam Myers, I am your host and we're going through Rolling Stone magazine's list of the 500 greatest albums. I'm a comic, so if you want better facts, I don't know.

This weekend I'm in Phoenix at the Celebrity Theater with Jeff Arcurie. Next weekend I'm at Mohegan sun comics the 18th through the 20th and then I'm closing out the year. Gonna open for Big J wherever he is. I forget where it is. And then 2026 I'll have the dates. I've been very I should start announcing them now. I just don't have them in front of me. But we got a lot of great coming on.

Subscribe to the patreon patreon.com backslash the 500 podcast. Subscribe to the YouTube and follow me at Josh Adam Myers on all social media. Josh Adamyers.com for tickets, let's get down to the nitty gritty Marque Moon by Television. Our guest today is a legend in so many things. One of my favorite movies of all time. One of my favorite series of all time, the one and only Wil Wheaton. Will is not just an incredible actor from Stand By Me and Star Trek the Next Generation, amongst other movies, Toy Soldiers. He is also the host of his podcast Story Time with Wil Wheaton and he is probably one of my favorite guests we've had on this. This is a long E, but it's a goodie. Dig into it guys, because we go deep Ray Review. And most Importantly, subscribe to the 500 listen free on all platforms, anywhere you get your pods. Follow me at Josh Adam Myers on all social Media. Follow the pod at the 500 Podcast. Email the [e-mail] Follow the Facebook group run by Crazy Evan. And for all things 500, go to the website the500podcast.com. All right guys. Marque Moon by television at 1:30. So will. Yeah, I mean I just. I just buried the leads. I was going to give you a big intro. I just said your name. We, we've had guest after guest after guest after guest on and it's so funny when, when we get a guest that I just never one and I'm just a huge fan of, you know. And so.

[Wil Wheaton]

Thanks, man.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Dude. I mean I grew up with you on so many levels. We'll get into all of this. We want to promote because I see that you're on tour promoting the stand by me 40 years later. I mean, which is so. It's so perfect that you're doing this, man, like for, for everybody. You know, it's such a. I mean, you know, you probably hear from everybody at those things and throughout your life of just how important that movie was.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

For, for, for all of us. But then. And we'll get into all that. I want you to promote it. But then you're here for probably one of the most DL cut albums. That is so it's, it is. If you are. If you know music, you know it. But this is not, this isn't, you know, this isn't. I'm trying to think. This isn't like the Cure. This isn't like the Ramones. This is a. This is like big Star. This is like a little nugget of music that inspired so much other.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah, sure.

[Josh Adam Myers]

So. So I. I knew you were cool, but I didn't realize you were that cool. That's what I'm saying.

[Wil Wheaton]

Ultimately, I. I really thank you. I really appreciate that. Yeah. My relationship to this record is. Is special and, and. And kind of surprising to me. Do you want to know mice? Do you want to. You want to hear. You want to hear how I came to Marquee Move.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, please. I mean, we'll do. Listen, we. We go in any direction you want. I have notes, I have facts, I have. This is one of those things where it's like, I don't even know how, like, I don't know if it was Spotify or I was working on this TV show or whatever I was doing, where somehow Marky Moon made its way into me, into my life. And I heard that song, I was like, oh, this is great. But it was like. It almost like stopped there. And I mean, you know, so it's. So when I start finding out how different people have found this band after we've done all this research, it just blows my mind. So please take me to. Take me on your television Marquee Moon journey.

[Wil Wheaton]

Okay, to. Before we get to television, I want to tell you where I was when I discovered this record. So when I was 14, I had a friend at school and she was the cool older goth girl who made me as cool as I was ever going to get. Right. Which was not very, but, you know, it was more than I was. She introduced me to. To the Smiths, the Cure, the Violent Femmes, Depeche Mode, and Joy Division. And until that moment in my life, I just kind of listened to my parents music, which was a lot of really cool classic rock, but nothing that was contemporary in the 80s, like at all. And I remember sitting on the floor in her apartment listening to Mita's murder and being blown away. I was like, I've never heard anything like this. This has changed everything for me. And I never really looked back from that. I went from like post punk to goth to punk, where I stayed for a really, really, really long time. And in all of that, I did not know television even existed until probably the first season of Stranger Things, however long ago that was. Like, what was that, like six, seven, eight years ago? Something like that? Does that sound?

[Josh Adam Myers]

I don.

[Wil Wheaton]

I feel like.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I feel like Stranger Things is kind of doing like a Sopranos.

[Wil Wheaton]

It's been. It's been around for like 25 years, dude.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, dude.

[Wil Wheaton]

I mean, at this point, Stranger Things may as well have been produced in the 80s for how long we have to wait for new season?

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, you ain't lying, dude.

[Wil Wheaton]

It's.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's curb your enthusiasm a sci fi drama. I mean, it's like a 20 year, but only 11 seasons.

[Wil Wheaton]

Come on, dude.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Come on, beef it up, dude. You give it that much time.

[Wil Wheaton]

One of the characters in that first season, like, was listening to. To. To one of the songs off of this album, like, just in. In a scene, right? And I realized that I'd heard Prove it.

I couldn't tell you where, but I had never heard anything else from this album because I was, you know, I was. I'm 53, so I'm like, just a little bit too young for the bands that I'm crazy about. Like, I'm just a little bit too young to have gotten to see them live and to have like, been there, you know, in the. In the midst of all of it.

And.

I. Gosh. So I.

I listened to K Rock and I listened to like, some college stations in LA and like, like television just never crossed my event horizon. I heard this. I heard one of these songs on, On. On Stranger Things, and I was like, wow, this. This band sounds terrific. So I went straight to the Internet, I found the album, I listened to the album all the way through. And there have been a few albums in my life that I've just been completely on board with from like, the first note of the record, and this was one of them. It still blows my mind that it's 45 minutes long or 51 minutes long. Like, it's such a short record, you know, and it's just flawless from start to finish. And I realized as I was listening to it for the first time, however many years ago, wow. Every band I love, the bands that I am obsessed with, they're all influenced by this record. Every single one of them is influenced by this record. And then I was doing some research for this before I came to talk to you, Please. And discovered that, like.

Guys from New Order and Joy Division are like, yes, this is my favorite. This is my. Marky Moon is my favorite record of all time. And I'm reading contemporary reviews of the album, which are so fun because I'm thinking, like, well, what were those journalists influenced by at the time? And, like, what's really popular? It's 1977. It's the peak of disco, man. Like, and. And punk hasn't even really gotten started yet, right?

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's about to, though.

[Wil Wheaton]

It's.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's coming, though. It's in the mail because it's about to be delivered. You're getting the updates in your text messages that it's around the corner.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah, this feels like a record that is just leading on the edge of, like, the cliff before. It just soars away in, like, a crazy flight suit, you know, on just, like, every updraft between here and the ground. It just feels like it's just ready to go. Like, is the audience ready for this? Is America and the world ready for this record? And what I'm hearing in these reviews, or what probably what I'm reading in these reviews are, are descriptions that I've used forever that I didn't know were ways they described music back then. I'm like, yeah, these guitars are kind of crunchy and, like, this music sounds sharp. This music feels angular. It's not smooth and rounded out. Like a lot of the post punk and a lot of the goth that I enjoy listening to. And I, I, I just put this thing on repeat, man, and, and just couldn't stop listening to it and, and, and reading all of these stories from all of the artists who would go and see them at CBGB and, and listening to how they were, like, right there with Patti Smith and the Ramones at the start of all of it. Right?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Wil Wheaton]

So my last, like, fun fact about this record, that, that was the. My poor wife is so tired of hearing this from me.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Please listen to something, El.

[Wil Wheaton]

Oh, my God, do I have to hear about that producer right now? He produced all the Led Zeppelin records. You won't stop talking about it. You know, I'm one of those dudes who I'll put on, like, a Black Sabbath record, right? And I will make them listen to it over and over again.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Can you hear it?

[Wil Wheaton]

Can you hear the bass drum echoing off the walls in there?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Like, they put, they put it at.

[Wil Wheaton]

The bottom of a well. Like, can you hear it? Can you hear it? You know? Anyway.

My friend John Bowie wrote a play about the Ramones called Four Chords and a Gun. And it's about the recording of their album with Phil Spector. And there's this apocryphal story that Phil Spector pulls a gun on the Ramones in the studio. Like, we all know it, right? One of the possibly apocryphal stories about the recording of that album is that he was famously implacable and he just wouldn't get off Marky Ramone's back. And the story is that the drums on the record are Phil Spector. It's not Marky Ramone which is like, are you kidding me? I'm listening to Phil Spector all this time. That's the performance that I'm hearing when I listen to that record. I'm not hearing the actual guy. That is context for this.

I learned only in the last couple of weeks, the studio, that, you know, that how they had gone through finding a producer for this record and choosing how they were going to record it. And. And. And I'm reading about Tom Verlaine and Richard Hell, like, going around to different clubs and. And playing all the tracks that are on this record, and they build this following, and people are crazy about them. And. And. And they're getting more and more comfortable in their music, right? And they come in there. He. He. Brian Eno wants to produce them and. And Tom Verlaine is like, it's too smooth, it's too soft, it's too polished. And I'm like, right, more angular guitars. That's what I love about this record, man. And. And they finally agree to go in. They record it with Elektra, and. And they finally go into the studio and Tom Verlaine tells the band, all right, we're gonna do Marky Moon. Let's just. Let's do a rehearsal on Marky Moon, which at the time has been like their song, right? I was this morning, I found every live recording that is legally available online. And I heard different. Till I did. I listen. There's three live albums, and I listened to. And I listened to three different versions of Marquee Moon. And they're just so. Oh, God, they're just so good. And the band is so tight, right? Like, I just saw Circle Jerks a couple of weeks ago, and they were. There was not. There was not a nanosecond of space in anything. They were so tight. And my friend and I went with John, and John was like, yeah, man, this is what you sound like when you've been playing together for 47 years. Like, you're that tight, right? So this. The band is so tight, and they're so flawless. Tom Verlaine says, let's just rehearse this. And then he tells the engineer, just hit record. They play the song like they always do. They get to the end of the song. They play it through in one take. They get to the end of the song, and. And. And the band's like, cool, I guess we're ready to go. Like, let's put it down. And Verlaine goes, nope, that's it. We were recording. We're not doing it again. They did one take of Marquis Moon for the album Marquee Moon. It is the only take that was recorded and that's the take that's on the album. What I love about this and why I mentioned Leave Home when I am listening, when anyone listens to that song, we are hearing 10 minutes, perfectly preserved. From the moment this song was recorded, there is no alternate take. They didn't do it other times. They went in and did this one time. To me, that is the equivalent of getting to see a legendary live performance where something happens that never happens again. And you just hope that somebody records recorded it so you can experience it again. I love that. That raw, perfectly rehearsed, incredibly intensely familiar sensation is in that music. And that these guys, when they're recording it, are not thinking, okay, well, we can go and do this again, or I'm going to settle into it. They're just. They are so in the flow of that music. It is such a part of them and has been for so long that it just comes out. And it's good enough to get to an album that they told Brian Eno no on, that they've been waiting to record for like three years. I just. I think about the. The level of belief they had to have in themselves, the faith they had in themselves, the support they had from the label and the. And the faith they had in each other. All of that, like, it just lights me up, man. I just think it is the coolest thing.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, to do something like that in. In one take, you know, it is. And to. And to make something. Not just that song, which is the one that I heard, but like, this record. It sounds like it should have come out five or six years later. Do you know what I mean? That's how. Ahead of its time.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You know, I could imagine because when I thought I was talking to the guy that I. That I write this with, this guy Morty, and I was like, yeah, this probably. It's like I didn't even know the year that it came out. And I was like, oh, it probably came out. This is already like post punk. He's like, punk hasn't even come out really yet. So this is so far ahead of the game for. For them to do something, you know, this monumental in. In music. But then, you know, it's. It's another thing to make this record. It feels like it's very.

It's very like Velvet Undergroundy where it's like, they are.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah, I was thinking of that too.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, they're so. They're so ahead. And maybe they didn't sell for. But everybody that bought this record, you know, when. Started a band. Start a band.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Wil Wheaton]

It's that great saying about the Velvet Underground record. Right. Not everybody bought it, but everybody who did started a band.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And I think that's the same with Big Star and I. Because I would always. Because there. Because, by the way, like, we did all the Big Star records.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, in the first hundred. Maybe in the first 100 episodes. And I remember digging into them and being like, okay, like, first, I think we did, like, we did them out of order. I think we went like three and then one and then two in their order of. When they were wrote, written, and like three, I was like, this is good. And then when we got to like, 1 and 2, I was like, oh, I get it now. They, you know, Television. This is it. This is the only record that. Of them that they put out that. Actually, I'm not trying to say that. That people give a. About. I don't want to say that because they have adventure and there's songs off that. And I continued to listen to it after I gave a couple listens to this, but I mean, this is it. This is the one that. That I really think. I mean, it is. It is the sound of what I can only imagine New York was probably like at that time.

[Wil Wheaton]

God, can you just. You can see it, right? You can see there's. It's. It's grimy and sooty and the. And subway grates and steam and. And just. And. And people slumped over in doorways on the Lower east side. Like, it just.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Right.

[Wil Wheaton]

It feels like it's Alph. Kind of like in the rain.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah. It really gives me. Gives me that feeling like it doesn't feel like Midtown. It doesn't feel like the Deuce. It feels like the Lower east side.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yes.

[Wil Wheaton]

And I don't know, like, when. When I. Even though this album is the same age as my sister, like, when I discovered it, I was like, I have found something secret and special. I've just found something that. That is secret and special for me. And like, oh, my God, it is. It is. It is so evocative. And these. The. The album has, like. I feel like it covers a really wide range of ideas while staying in that. That. That dirty, grimy, Midnight Cowboy sort of version of New York. But there's love songs and there's. Prove it is great and Venus is such a great song. And. And. And then, like. And I'm, you know, there's.

There are moments in songs on this album that I hear lifted straight out by other artists. And there's a moment in. I think in Venus that sounds like there's a guitar phrase that I'm. I know I've heard the Pretenders.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I know exactly what you're talking about.

[Wil Wheaton]

Like note for note. I think it's from Stop youp Shouting. I think that's what that song's called.

But just, you know, like, as an artist, all. All I ever want to do is. Is make something that matters to people. I want to like. I want to take something that I am feeling and share it with another person so it connects to something that they are feeling and they get something out of it. Whether it's inspiration or it's merely diversion, or it's something deeply meaningful. Like when I listened to Pink Floyd's the Wall for the first time, I. I am that character. I was a kid. I first heard it when I was like 12 or 13. And I was a kid who was like, I didn't want to be there. I didn't want to be on the stage. I didn't want to have all of that attention. I just wanted my mom to love me. I had no relationship with my dad because my dad just dec that he hated me from as long as I can remember. And like, everything that guy goes through in that concept album was very relevant to me and remained relevant to me for my entire life. To find a piece of art, particularly music that really speaks to something deep and. And primal inside of me as a listener is such a powerful experience.

I hope that I can give that to anybody who pays attention to my work.

But I found in this entire album all these different places where it connects to a different piece of me. Just a different part of me.

That needed whatever that was. And overall.

There'S a warm bath quality to this album for me. I can just settle into this record and write it until it's over. And I love. There's not a lot of records I can do that with.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's not a hard listen at all, man. This is a very, very.

[Wil Wheaton]

I.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Because I'm telling you, I. I heard Marquis Moon. I wanna. I really wish I could pinpoint it. I don't know if it was like 06 when I was working for Channel One, doing music direction for them, or if it was already me being out here. Yeah, I mean, wouldn't been out in New York, it would have been in la because it's just been saved in my Spotify like songs for years. And by the way. Well, I thought it was. I thought this was. Because I didn't see the album cover when it first came on. I was like, I'm saving this. They look like they could have been the Strokes. Like, I was like, ah, this could have been like an Interpol type thing.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, and you can hear their influences in those bands, too, which is amazing.

[Josh Adam Myers]

A hundred percent. And it. That's good.

[Wil Wheaton]

I bet you there's at least one contemporary act who's super influenced by this record and they don't even know it because. Because they derived their influences from someone who was influenced by it. And they would. And I imagine that there's someone who's 20, 21 who in four or five years is going to go, holy.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I'll give you a band right now, dude. I'll give you a band right now, Will. And it's only because I listen to this and then I work. Because I was working out yesterday and I finished the album and then I put on. Everybody's talking about that band. Is it Geese? Is that it? Or Goose? There's two of them. There's Goose and there's Geese.

[Wil Wheaton]

I don't know.

[Josh Adam Myers]

One of them's like a hippie jam band. The other one is like the hip Brooklyn. And dude, I hear Big Star. I hear. I hear Television.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And it's not. It's not like beating it over the head like Interpol with, you know, with either Joy Division or. Or all these other things or the Strokes with this band that it's. It is, but it is. It's there. And it's the same conversation I had with this younger kid where he just could not accept that the music that he loves is influen by the past. And I know that sounds ridiculous even as that comes out of my mouth. And we've argued, and he's already apologized for this, but in this one discussion about why Wuang sucks and. And he's like, I hate wuang, but I love this new stuff. And I'm like, there is no new stuff without Wuang. Like, yeah, right. You have to have Tupac with you. Don't get to that. And. And. And it's like, yes, there are artists now that have taken these little elements and made whatever you want to call post P or, you know, or punk or new wave or garage rock and. And have really picked up the, you know, the baton and ran with it.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And their albums are great for. For now, but it's like, there is something about going back and getting all right, you know, I'd much rather. Would you rather have a brand new car or. Or the same car from 25 years ago? I'm like, if it's in perfect condition and every song from you from start to finish, the whole album just flows. I mean, I'll take this, I'll take this any day. And. And I'm really happy that this came out. And everything that you said about like, you know, it is being able to capture something in one take. It's like just the idea that this band got lightning in a bottle, literally in the studio. That one, that, that is something rarely that happens, you know what I mean? With another producer that might. We might not have had the same album. We might not be talking about it.

[Wil Wheaton]

Can you imagine if Martin Hannit had been able to come within a thousand miles of this record?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, my God, it would just be.

[Wil Wheaton]

So smooth out and terrible. It would just like, like, like somebody's hitting, like, like just striking a gong underwater. Like there would just be nothing to it, right?

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, this is, this is like. This is one of those things where it's like, like less is so much more.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And by, by doing that, you know, because I'm telling you, if the more you smooth this shit out, the less you get Sonic Youth talking about how much this album is important. You know what I mean?

[Wil Wheaton]

There is so much television in Sonic Youth.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, my God.

[Wil Wheaton]

Oh, my God. I had no idea.

That'S I was talking about, you know, every now and then I get on my bullshit. Every now and then, right? I get on my Radiohead bullshit. It's all I want to hear. I got on my Sonic Youth bullshit. It's all I want to hear, you know, like, it just. It happens from time to time right here, dude. So I was listening, I was listening to Sonic Youth and I was like, God, the Sonic Youth is so terrific. And some, some, somebody said to me, you know, I feel the same way. I really like Sonic Youth. And then there's always a point in the record where it gets noisy and experimental. I don't know if I like Sonic Youth that much. And I actually really love. I don't listen to a lot of that stuff because it's just noisy and whatever. I super duper respect it, but I feel it is sort of like, yeah, let's do this, man. Because who knows who's going to hear that and spin it off into the next Sonic Youth?

To tie this loosely, this is. I'm really proud of myself tying these together. I want to tie this. I want to tie this to Stand By Me.

This discussion. So you said at the top, we're doing this Stand By Me tour. We're doing these shows. So Jerry o', Connell, Corey Feldman and I are going to some cities around North America with a screening of our movie Stand by me, because it's 40 years old. And we screen the movie with an audience and then we do a Q and A afterward, and then we do a little VIP photo reception after that, and we go to the next city and we do it all again. So this last weekend, I watched Stand By Me three nights in a row. And I saw things in Stand By Me that even though I've seen it a hundred times, like, I wouldn't have noticed these things had I not watched them in quick succession with other audiences, with my co stars next to me to talk about it. In Stand By Me, there is a scene that Rob Reiner is incredibly proud of. And it is after we go through the junkyard, we run away from the dog, and we have the fight with the junkyard guy at the fence. And Teddy has, like a real emotional meltdown about his dad. The next scene is us walking down a pathway, the four of us, and the camera's leading us, pulling away. And this scene is about two and a half pages. And in this scene, there's a moment of comedic timing that you cannot teach, that Jerry O' Connell absolutely nails at 11 years old. That's brilliant. And then there are moments of us being really, like, seriously connected to each other. And it all comes through. And it's a two and a half page scene that's shot in one take. And Rob talks about how proud he was of that because it's hard to do things in one take with kids because kids fuck up. It's just part of being a kid. So to get kids to do a solid performance like you would see on stage in one shot, like, that was a big deal to him and it was a big deal to us. I did not realize until I saw it three nights in a row how perfect it is in terms of timing. If you were like listening to a click track, it is perfect in the way that it all works out. If. If you want, like, if you. If you open yourself to the emotion of that scene, it's believable. You feel like you're watching these kids who have just. Just been screamed at and threatened by an adult, and they're trying to figure out what they're. What they're gonna do. That was our. That's Our one take moment. That's a moment where, you know, the scene is. The movie's full of wonderful performances and meaningful scenes. They're all edited together from multiple takes like you do in movies. But that man, that's just us being us in this one moment. And it is our version of. Here, let's take, you know, these guys take this 10 minutes from 1977 and, and give it to us. We take those two and a half pages filmed in 1985 and put it out for everybody to, to see. I know we did more than one take, so I don't know which one is actually in the movie. But it's cool to have been part of something that was done in a similar kind of way just without, without any safety net.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I think. You know, and I want to, I want to piggyback of what you're saying. I think the reason that, that that movie works so well is that is perfect casting. And I mean, yeah, perfect like you get dude. I mean it is the movies that we love. It isn't so much this. I mean scripts can be. I mean, I mean that was a great script, you can't deny that. And the characters in it are amazing. But whoever, whether it was Rob working with the casting director, like he made sure that. Or they made sure that every single person, including not just the four, but all of the, you know, the Kiefer and his henchmen, they all, dude, your dad, John Cusack, those little things to, to that all just made the emotion, you know, of that, of that story. Because it's such a simple story with so many different layers of the onion that need to be peeled that we eventually do just like this record. It is the fact that you can get that kind of, that kind of comedy and you can get that kind of sadness evoked from, from that movie. And the way that we can get, get this record and such a one take thing is because you've got people that have been playing that know their roles. They've been playing together forever. Whether you know, with Tom and Richard and then meeting up with Billy and, and knowing the scene in New York and being at the right place at the right time and doing demos with Brian Eno and so they're working with greats and it's like you guys have all. River's already been working, you know, Corey's already been working. Rob has come from a comedic, you know, acting into directing. It's all of these and it's written by, It's a novella by Stephen King. All of those Things. It all just is the.

[Wil Wheaton]

The.

[Josh Adam Myers]

The.

[Wil Wheaton]

The.

[Josh Adam Myers]

The. The ingredients to the stew that just makes. It. Makes it perfect. And it's like I said, dude, you. Lightning in a bottle. It's like you get certain things once. Like, you can't. I'm sorry, dude. The new running Man. I don't give a. What you say. It's not as good as Arnold Schwarzenegger is. That's the. That's the movie.

[Wil Wheaton]

Like, it's a better adaptation of the source material, but it's not as fun as the old movie, is it?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Exactly. Dude, if you tried to make Stand By Me again, it will suck. If you try to make Lost Boys again, it will suck if. Dude, people. They think that we won.

[Wil Wheaton]

You.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You want the screenplay for Roadhouse? You think we gave a. About actual. What the words. We want Swayze by a bed and then ripping a guy's heart out after he. Kelly. Whatever her. Kelly Lynch. I mean, we don't want. We don't want guys robbing banks and then skydiving. That's not the story. But I want Keanu and I want Patrick Sweet. Like, I want. You can't. Dude. Dude, I'll give it. I'm wearing RoboCop 2, right? I didn't know what shirt to wear for you today. I wore. Out of all of them. I wore my RoboCop 2 shirt. I also have a Lost Boys hoodie.

[Wil Wheaton]

Excellent, dude.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But that's the thing is that, like, when you get it right, when. When you've got the right ingredients to something. And I feel like the band had been playing together, from what I'm understanding, for years, you know, so. So to finally, in 77, when they started making this record, they. They understood each other at a level that was like, you know, or 76 when they recorded it. Yeah, dude. It's just when it works, it works. And. And I feel, you know, this worked. I wish more people knew about it. I think they do. It's just, you know, and when you get those people that, you know, it's. Dude, whether it's, you know, you guys doing the. The. The promo for it, or other actors and directors that are now coming up saying, well, what movies influenced us? And we're like, oh, well, I saw. I saw Goonies at this age. Or I saw Back to the Future, or I saw. I saw Stand By Me. It's like those are the things that are. That. Are that. That we take with them. All we're doing is just kind of perpetuating the art in a sense.

[Wil Wheaton]

It's really cool to hear filmmakers who I admire today who have made things that I like, cite Stand By Me as a reference, as an infl. You know, there's. There's shots in the first season of Stranger Things that are lifted straight from Stand By Me and the Duffer brothers were like, yeah, we did that on purpose. Do you want to know about the casting of Stand By Me?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, please. Oh, I was good. Because usually. Because usually, dude, I. We could take this whatever way you want to take it. I have facts and I have questions throughout the songs, you know, and the other thing is too, like, I'm such a huge fan of Corey. Like, not like his music. I'm like one of his number one fans. Kids. I've seen him live. I touched him. I touched him at the Loserville show. Like, I love him. I think he rules. I think Jerry's awesome. I think river is one of the. Is. Is up there with one of the. You know, I would have loved to have seen what he was gonna do. So, you know, Kiefer is the man, obviously. And dude, you just were the perfect. And that. And not to cut you off about the thing about the casting, but, you know, it was what I love so much and about that and I think so leading to the casting thing is that. That. And you mentioned about how. How Jerry's character had this comedic thing because he's the only one that has no problems. He's just aloof to everything. He's the overweight fun guy who doesn't.

[Wil Wheaton]

That's actually extremely important.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Exactly.

[Wil Wheaton]

In the construction in. In. In the. And the archetypal construction of the characters. And it's also just kind of who Jerry is. So. Yeah, go ahead.

When. When we were on location, when we were in production.

There, there were overwhelmingly. It was a wonderful and incredibly fun, joyful experience. I obviously made friends that I'm friends with 40 years later from. From all of that. But there were moments where Corey in particular was really a pain in the ass on the set. And I don't. And listen and I. And. And I don't. And I don't want to say that unkindly. I just, you know, for. For 13 year old me, I was like, oh, my God, can you just stop? For 53 year old me, I'm like, oh, my God, that poor kid is just. He is. He's suffering and he's in so much pain and he's lonely and. And he's trying and he's got so much responsibility on his shoulders and just. He's doing the best that he can. Right? I've said. I've said it to Corey. I've said it in interviews for years. Corey can be a lot. Because Corey's been through a lot. Yes. Here's the thing about Corey. He's made mistakes, and he's been taken advantage of by some of the worst people in the world. But in. Inside of him is a heart that desperately wants to do right by people. Like, there is a heart in him that wants to be loved, that wants to love in return. There's a heart in him that sees pain in people and wants to ease that pain. Because by easing that pain, he can ease it in himself. But in 1985, none of us know any of that, right? All I know is this kid who's a little bit older than me is kind of obnoxious, and just, like, is. Is bugging the shit out of me. So there's this day where we're. We're shooting the. The scene with the leeches and the. The. You know, they're like, dog pile on Gordy. And they all pile down on top of me. And Corey's the last one on, and he puts his knee into the back of my leg, like, on my hamstring, down near the inside of my knee, right? And it hurts really, really, really bad. And I asked him about it, and he was. And Corey maintains to this day, he never meant to do that on purpose. He didn't know where his legs were. And he was like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. I'm like, okay, I will take you at your word. In that scene, I fall down, and I'm trying to stay in the scene, and I'm trying to, like, you know, keep it together. And I'm crying because it hurts so much. And Rob cuts, and he's like, what's wrong? And I said, corey's knee's in my. My back of my leg. And Rob really let Corey have it. Was like, stop being such an. Like, get your together. Like, what is going on? And Corey tells the stories. Like, Rob reamed him out, made him cry, and straightened him up. A couple of days after that, I said to Rob, just like every actor in the world available for these roles, why did you cast this kid who's such a pain in the ass? And Rob said, all of you kids have so much in common with your characters. It's what makes it easy for me to help direct you.

I saw hundreds of kids for each of your roles, and Corey was the only kid who had the amount of Pain in his eyes and anger behind that pain that Teddy has. It's like, oh, that's so interesting. That makes a lot of sense. So let me see if I can put this together. River. River had been failed by every adult in his life. River needed to be protected by the adults in his life, and they didn't protect him. And Chris Chambers is kind of the same way, right? And he says, I want to go someplace where nobody knows me. I just want to go someplace where I can just be me without someone else telling me who I'm supposed to be. Okay, that's. That's Chris. I get that. Every time we see Jerry, every time Jerry walks into the set, every time Jerry goes to craft services, every time we are sitting down, he's making somebody laugh. There's just. Things are very funny. He has. There is not a judgmental bone in his body. Oh, my God, That's Vern. What about me? I don't get it. Like, what? What? It's easy to make me cry, I guess. And I like to write stories, and I'm shy. Like, I didn't understand what is it about me? The reason I didn't understand that is that I was. Was absolutely an abused kid. I was abused by my dad and exploited by my mom. And just like. Just like Gordy says, I was the invisible kid in my house. My died. My parents couldn't put it together. My dad worships my younger brother and just made him the golden child. My mom made me a thing that she could use to chase what she wanted as a failed actor. And they both were really into the fact that I worked all the time and that supported the family. But I wasn't part of a family. I wasn't welcomed into the family that my brother and sister lived in. I was. I was afraid of my dad. And the only time my dad ever opened his mouth to me was to yell at me or humiliate me or bully me.

Like. And I've never put my hands on another human being in anger. My dad did it to me all the time. And, like, I didn't put any of that together because my mom gaslighted me about it so much that I wasn't in my 4. I was in my 40s when I figured it out, I was like, oh, my God. That's why I'm so good as this kid. So watching this movie three days in a row this last weekend, I can really see who that little kid is. And I'm one. I'm like, rob could see it. That's why he cast me. It's why I'm so good in this movie, because I'm just being that kid. How were all the other adults in young Will's life who could have been like, hey, buddy, are you okay? Things don't seem all right for you? And it is one of the reasons that I found so much comfort and companionship and safety in music. I am a person for whom music is not background noise ever. Music is a companion. Music is something that carries me through things. It keeps me safe, it focuses me. It says the things that I want to say but can't. My. My punk rock, like, lets me get. When I was younger, it let me work out the anger and aggression that I felt in a place where that was safe to do with other people who were like, it's cool to do this here. We're doing it for each other. And. And, like, the weird kind of art rock that I love and the goth music that I love and the post punk that I love, it showed me that there are other people who are weird, like I am, who really love that. They're not ashamed of it. It's not something. Who cares if my dad makes fun of it? Like, there's. You know, these are. I don't care if my dad's going to make fun of me for going to Rocky Horror Picture Show. I love Rocky Horror.

I see there. You know, I love the. The people that you meet at shows and you share that, like, incredible, live, meaningful, unique experience. And then, you know, you go off and you sort of take those. Those memories with you. So you're absolutely right. Rob Reiner cast four kids, kids who could be those characters. And then when we got to Oregon, we went to location two weeks early, before principal photography was to begin. And we did two weeks of theater games and improv exercises and blocking and rehearsal. Because Rob's. I remember Rob saying, like, I got you kids together, and you guys are really, really good, and your instincts are fantastic. He didn't tell us this then, but I've heard him say it since. And he said, I got to teach these kids how to be like an ensemble. I have to teach them how to work together and lean on each other and support and believe in each other. And we did all these theater exercises and we all loved them. And that really helped bring us together and get us really comfortable together. A thing that I carried from my experience on standby, meeting me throughout my entire career.

Was how special and meaningful and valuable it is to be in a cast that loves each other and Supports each other and looks out for each other. I'm very lucky that I got that in Stand by Me and Star Trek and Big Bang Theory, like just, it's. I've a friend of mine and I day played on a show. I won't say what it is for reasons that will become obvious. The number one on their call sheet is the biggest diva I've ever experienced in my life. Life. This, this person was like, oh, everyone else will be on set at 6 o' clock in the morning. I'm gonna roll in at about 11 because that's when I feel like showing up. And we were like, what, the man who does this, right?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, yeah.

[Wil Wheaton]

And that is very much the exception rather than the rule. You know, I was like my friend, I was like, oh, how late did they show up for you?

But just to have those moments of like, yeah, man. And I imagine it's like being in a band together where you're just like, you trust each other, you know, Like, I'm gonna improvise a little bit and I just know I'm gonna just hold off for a minute and let the bass stop. And I know that there's going to be a fill. And here we go again. Like just those things where you, you can anticipate what the other person's gonna do before they even know they're gonna do it. And like that is just. That is magic when we are, like when we're firing together, you know, it's like I don't like jam bands, but when jam bands are working and it's like really, it's just like, oh my gosh, it is like watching a bunch of wizards just do magic in front of you.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh my God, yes. And I mean basically all the shows, like when you just mentioned Star Trek too, I mean, that's another thing of perfect casting for especially coming off of the Next Generation being the, the next big show post the original members which then stuck around for you know what, three, I mean, almost, almost seven, eight years and then continue in movies.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah, yeah, seven years of, of original episodes. And then what did they do? Four movies, I think. And then Star Trek, Picard.

Yeah, yeah, it was great.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Let me ask you when you. So when you show up for that in. In. You said Portland, right? Is where you shot Stand By Me when you show up there. I mean, do you guys all have an idea? Because I know you've done a few things before and the whole thing about like you said about Corey, that all makes sense. He had already done Goonies, you Know, which is that. Which didn't make. Because we just had Martha Plimpton on. She even said it. It didn't make a shitload of money when it came out. It was one of the top movies that year. I think it made like 68 million, which is respectable in 1985 or 86. But it's not like this huge, huge movie. It's all the.

[Wil Wheaton]

I mean, that's the summer that. Back to the Future. Just exactly.

[Josh Adam Myers]

The world. Exactly. Yeah.

[Wil Wheaton]

Which, like, you know.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You know, but still, dude, Goonies. Goonies holds its own. And.

[Wil Wheaton]

And you know that we went. Do you know Rob Reiner rented a movie theater in Eugene, Oregon, where we filmed the movie?

[Josh Adam Myers]

No way.

[Wil Wheaton]

We went the cast and crew to see Goonies together.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, come on.

[Wil Wheaton]

When it opened, and then we did it also when Rivers movie Explorers came out out. Rob rented out the same theater. The entire cast and crew went there and we all watched it together and. And like, just sort of celebrated, you know, the achievements of. Of our. Of our castmates.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Was it. Was it. So did you know. Did you. I mean, obviously you have an idea who these guys are, but did you guys already know each other, I'm assuming. Because it sounds like, to me, you know, like you said, and very similar with me and with your dad and. And you and me and my dad.

[Wil Wheaton]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No, no, no, no, no. Dude, it's. I mean, trust me, it's. It's turned out, you know, very, very.

[Wil Wheaton]

It's.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I can't. I can't, like. I can't get mad at him because I've turned out okay. And he did introduce me to art and music, and I wanted to. To, you know, to be closer to him. So I just got so into that and obviously, like, was able to, like, make a career out of it, which is awesome. But, you know, I also feel like, you know, if the chip on my shoulder that I've had is what has propelled me, and who knows? If that doesn't happen, maybe I'm.

[Wil Wheaton]

I'm.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Maybe I'm not doing what I'm doing. So I. I can't. Everything just like you. It all worked out. It's always. You know what I mean? It may not. It might have been some hurdles, and it's my. It's definitely tougher for some of us than others, and I wish I had it a lot easier the same. I know you do, too, but it's like, dude, in the end with me and you, we're. We're on a podcast talking about television We've done all this. Cool. Like, that's pretty rad. And. And the moral of that story is, is like, you know. Know you're. You're getting. Your mom is pushing you into acting, you know, and obviously you're booking, you know, so when you show up to meet these guys, do you know them? Are their egos? You know, like, you mentioned. You mentioned Corey. But it just. It just feels like. I mean, it doesn't show at all. And I know acting is. I mean, there are movies and TV shows where people hate each other and they act like they're bad, and they can pretend or they can make it seem like they're family, but it's like, there's something about the. The relationship that the four of you guys had that is just. It just feels like. It's almost like the scene in Aliens when they're all waking up and they're all eating, and they're just like, oh, they've. Because the reason that rules is because they shot that last. Do you know what I mean? And it's like, now by this point, they've known each other. They're friends. Like, how was it at the beginning, like, when you guys all showed up to that thing?

[Wil Wheaton]

I remember.

Getting to Eugene.

And.

The first day that we had our, like, rehearsals and workshops and stuff, there was a conference room or a presidential suite or something like that in the hotel, and the production had it, and they took everything out of the room and made it just kind of like a big empty space where we could have rehearsals and things like that.

I remembered all three guys because I'd seen them on auditions and before. Before we had been cast, we had gone through an extensive screen testing process where they were mixing different actors and things. And I remember Sean Astin was there that day. Sean Astin was reading for Gordy. There was a moment in the early 2000s where I was like, dude, I'm so. We've stayed friends since we were kids. There was a moment in the 2000s where I was like, dude, I'm just so incredibly envious that you get to be part of the Lord of Rings. And without missing a beat, Sean goes, oh, yourself. You got stand by me.

I was like, okay. I mean, all right. Fair.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Thank you.

[Wil Wheaton]

So.

Weirdly, I knew river from real life. River and his family lived around the block from me in Sunland, California. My babysitter was across the street from this house where the weird hippies lived. And the weird hippies had a bunch of kids who were all. Who all had weird nature Names. That's what the kids in the neighborhood talked about, right? There was river and there was leaf and there was rain. And I was like, what? And.

I knew them from like riding bikes. I would, would be riding my bike and I would see those kids out. We would be climbing the tree at the babysitter's house in the front yard and one of them would come over and climb the tree with us. And I always thought that was so weird and such a crazy coincidence that he was like literally around the block from where I lived. And I lived in a place that was like, like a lower middle class.

Area that was like, like really on the edge of LA County. It was not a place you would expect him to be from. And I knew who Corey was because I'd seen Friday the 13th and I watched Bad News Bears and you know, he was on every TV show that exists in the 80s. Like he was a reliable child actor. You know, like he showed up, he did his work, he always knew his lines and, and, and he just worked endlessly. A thing that's so funny to me. And we gave him such a hard time about this over the weekend. Corey had all kinds of experience. He was the most experienced person on, on of, of the four of us because he'd worked in so many movies and by that point he'd worked with Richard Donner and Steven Spielberg and Joe Dante. He'd already done Gremlins. He'd been in, you know, like all of these big things and, and like he came to the set with this standing on top of this enormous body of work and the rest of us were like, I guess, you know, whatever. And.

I'm not saying this unkindly. Sure there was a touch of arrogance from him of that just comes with being 14, of course, feeling like I know what I'm doing, I know where I am and, and you know, and, and, and all of that.

But I didn't really know them until the end of that two weeks. And.

In my adult life last year, I experienced one of the most painful, shocking betrayals by longtime friends I've ever experienced in my life. I was astonished. I was like, oh. And from that I was like, okay, the drawbridge is now up. I'm not letting people close to me anymore. I'm not letting new people into my life. If you're going to come in, you're going to, I'm going to vet the hell out of you before you get, before you even get to come across the parade grounds, you know where that.

[Josh Adam Myers]

The COVID Oh for sure.

[Wil Wheaton]

But back then I was like, I was so lonely and I was so.

I would have. It was like a life raft for me. Anything that I could be part of, a cast that I could be part of, a group of people that would welcome me, that would. That would be there for me, that I could rely on, I was like, please let me be part of that. So when we were there and Rob was like, you guys are friends and you're all in this ensemble together, and this is about you guys as a group, I was like, yeah, sign me up.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Up.

[Wil Wheaton]

I'm in. Like, I'm all in. And I was just like, I will be here for you guys and we will be friends and we will hang out. And we had the same sort of like rough patches that kids have when they're kids. But overall, it was a really wonderful, really meaningful experience.

Of. Of four people really being supportive of each other and getting through all of that stuff. And.

That'S only Rob's third movie, man. Like, that's crazy, right? He'd done Spinal Tap, and sure thing, he could have done anything he wanted, and he wanted to do this. And after this, he stayed really, really focused on character driven movies with a little bit of an ensemble to them. And. And I feel very lucky and very grateful to be an actor who got to experience what it's like to be directed by Rob Reiner.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, I mean, you know, it's got to be just a trip because you've done. Like I said, I mean, by the way, let's not sleep on Toy Soldiers, bro. That movie rules. That movie rules. And you get to work with Sean again.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah, that was so much fun.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I love, I loved that movie. I remember seeing that on cable and always was drawn to that movie or renting it. But it's. It's such. And it's such a. I mean, dude, it's like, like, it's like Die Hard, like, you know what I mean? It's your. You're in a teen Die Hard in a sense.

[Wil Wheaton]

I mean, listen, that movie was. That movie was so beloved, they ripped it off and made it as masterminds with Patrick Stewart, like just a few years later.

Movie. Right. But.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But the thing is, it's like you're now what you're doing. And before we get into the songs, I just. Because I was gonna. I gotta keep talking about this as we're. We're on. The subject is to be able to 40 years later now with, you know, with. With the three. With the three of you, you know, obviously you Know, Sands river, you know, how has that been being able to go out and really see? Because I know when you're doing it and, like, you know, how old were you when it came out?

[Wil Wheaton]

Were you. I turned 13 during production. My birthday's in July, so I turned 13 during production. We wrapped on River's birthday. August 23, 1980, 1985. And then the movie sat for a year, and it was released limited release, August 8th, 1986, and then it was released in wide release, like, two weeks later.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, I. I mean, but you're. You're still young enough where it's like, you get the idea of how Of. Of. Yeah, I'm in a movie. This is awesome. And I'm working, and this is great. People seem to like it now. I got money coming in and now more projects, but it's really something that I think, you know, is probably like. Did you realize how impactful the movie was then? Or is it taking you all of this time to now go out 40 years later and for it to really just be palpable where you're like, holy, like, we like you because it's. Dude, it's the same thing about, like, you've done so much great. So I'm not just trying to say your career is one thing at all, but you know what I'm saying? You did something that culturally, you know, everything about it. It's so important to the fabric of the universe for so many people that are alive today day, which is. Is so important.

[Wil Wheaton]

I really appreciate that. Thank you.

Most actors will go their entire lives.

Wanting to be part of something as significant as Stand By.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Me? Yeah.

[Wil Wheaton]

I mean, I would like to be in something that's half as significant as Standby. It's just. It's rare. It's a blessing. It's a gift. I do not take it for granted. When we were in production.

I was too young to know that it is possible for one or more actors to turn in incredible performances on the set that are butchered in editing. I did not know at the time that you can read a script that is flawless from start to finish. And by the time the movie comes out, so many people at the studio have had to, like, make their mark on it that it doesn't even look like what you thought you were going to do. It is so rare.

Just getting anything made is incredibly hard. You know, the money for Stand By Me evaporated the day before production began. All on location, all the equipment is rented, call sheets are printed. We're ready to go. The studio yanks the funding, and Rob, at the last minute, calls Norman Lear and is like, I'm on location. The studio just said, they're. That they're gonna. They're gonna shit. Can the movie. Can you help me? And Norman Lear wrote him a check.

To get the movie made. So I knew on the set, this is. This is a good story.

These are good actors. Rob Reiner is a good director. I had that overwhelming sense that, like, oh, yeah, this is all. Everything about this is good.

I did not expect, and I did not allow for the possibility that it would be what it is. I. I had. I had no. I don't think any of us could have predicted that, especially Jerry, who's. Who came back from location and went back to public school in New York and was given this beat. A piece of advice from his father, given in love. Jerry, don't tell anybody about that movie that you made, because it's not going to come out. Most movies don't ever. No one will ever know about it. So for a year, Jerry was like, I guess this movie that I'm really proud of isn't coming out. And I was just like, you know, on the other side of the country, just waiting to know that it's eventually gonna. Gonna drop. We're really lucky that it has connected with so many people across multiple generations for 40 years. Rob tells stories of meeting people who tell him how it very accurately reflects their childhood experience. And he said after a while, he stopped asking them, oh, are you. Do you live in a rural area like the boys from Stand By Me? Because more often than not, they were like, no, I grew up in the middle of Manhattan or I lived in downtown Chicago, or I grew up in Kansas City. But it's what I did with my friends. I have spent a lot of time the last few months reflecting on that, on this phrase from the film. I never had any friends later on again in life like I did when I was 12. He says, Jesus, does anyone?

And it's a profound statement. And it was profound when it. When the. When this was written, because I think that's something we can all relate to. Yeah. There are incredibly special friendships that happen. That only happen when you're like, 12 years old. Why is that? I've spent a lot of time thinking about it.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It.

[Wil Wheaton]

Three of the four boys in Stand By Me have experienced unspeakable traumas in our personal lives by the time we get to the set, as have those characters. Right.

I was thinking back to the kids that I was friends with. When I was in elementary school and, like, up to the beginning of junior high.

Before.

My. That weird teen idol thing happened, and I, like, just didn't have friends anymore. I couldn't go be a person in the world. But before.

Every one of us, I think that we see something in each other. When we're 12, we see ourselves reflected in the eyes of these kids that become our incredibly good friends for that moment in our life. Because we're not judging each other. We're not keeping score about anything at all. We are showing up for each other. And each of us in the friendship is so grateful to be seen by someone else. We are so grateful to have someone who we can rely on, who feels safe for us. And all of that is shattered when we get into junior and senior high school. When social pressures arrive and people start. It's just a natural part of human development. We kind of turn on ourselves and we try out. We try on different masks and different outfits and figure out who we're going to be. But at that moment in our lives, we're pure. We're very real. Right? We haven't yet learned, most of us, right? Like, how to do these things that become those hurtful cliquish behaviors in junior and senior high school. And.

The movie reflects those deep, meaningful friendships of these kids who have all been traumatized, who are all suffering, who have all felt the meaningful and enduring loss.

The same way all of us actors had. Took me a really long time to figure that out and figure out why it is so special and why that.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That.

[Wil Wheaton]

Why that part of the film, those friendships and the relationships resonate with audiences without regard to what generation they're in, what country they live in, what their primary language is like. It's such a human experience.

I'll say it again. It's just such an incredible blessing to have been part of something like that.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Dude, that rules. That rules. I mean, by the way, like, this is so. This is great. What a perfect album for you to come on and then. And then to have to kind of, like, sync up with Stand By Me. You're right, it is. It's like you literally have. Have done something that people like actors, you know, in any profession to do, something that has a lasting, like, impact. And it's just. It's great. I love that you guys are on tour with it right now, man. I. I really do. And I'm so happy that you guys have stayed friends. And I mean, and I'm so happy that, you know, because. Did you ever have a moment like, before we get into the songs. I know. Don't worry, everybody. We're gonna talk about television, I promise you.

[Wil Wheaton]

And.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But it's like, did you ever have a. Did you ever have a moment where it's like, oh, man, like, you almost hated it. Not hated it, but, like. Does that make sense? Oh, there was a huge.

[Wil Wheaton]

There was a very. I carried a really. I. I put a burden on myself for a very, very long time. Yeah, that. And. And. And so.

My mom forced me to be an actor.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You do not want to be an actor whatsoever, really.

[Wil Wheaton]

And it is not something that I wanted to do.

[Josh Adam Myers]

What did you want to do if you had. If you would have had the choice? What. What would. What would Wil Wheaton have wanted to do? Like, if something. You're so young.

[Wil Wheaton]

No, I would have done. I would have done something with music. I really wanted to be a disc jockey. I really wanted to play music for people and. And introduce people to their favorite bands. I really wanted to do. I wanted to be that person who's. Comes out of the car radio who is tying. Who's bringing together everybody in LA county who's putting us all in the same kind of ephemeral space while we listen to Joe Benson or Rodney Bingenheimer or Richard Blade or, you know, any of those. Any of those guys. Jim Laddie, just like, like. Or like listening to Joe Frank on. On, like, public radio in the. In the 80s, just. I. I really loved that. That's what I really wanted to do. But one of the ways my mom really kept me going on auditions and kept me really under her control was by implying that the way I could earn my dad's love and affection was through being a really good, really successful actor. So Stand By Me happens. And I remember thinking, finally, this movie is like, look at how good it is. And it's the number one movie in America and the song's number one on Billboard. And look at all these interviews. Everybody wants to talk to me. Finally, my dad is gonna care about me and love me. And he didn't. And it changed absolutely nothing. And what that created for me was, well, that wasn't enough. I have to go better. I have to do something better than Stand By Me. I got to prove to my dad that Stand By Me wasn't a fluke. It wasn't just me getting lucky. I really am worthy. I really am deserving of feeling loved by my dad. As a father myself, I cannot comprehend end making a choice to do anything other than unconditionally, fully, maximally love and support my children. I don't know how that guy made the choice that he made. I don't know what he hoped to get out of it. What he gets out of it is I have no relationship with my parents now. And this thing that I know my mom would just really want to be part of, right? To like, oh, yeah, her, like. Like, you guys, you had your chance to be my parents and you chose not to be. So I spent all these years working really, really hard to find something that was a prestigious work. I passed on a lot of big popcorn movies in the aftermath of Stand By Me, that probably would have made me a lot of money and probably would have helped build a little bit of a career, but I didn't have a competent manager. My mom was like, I'm going to be your manager. So I had an incompetent manager I couldn't fire.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Wil Wheaton]

And, And, And I kept trying on my own to get sort of get out of the shadow of it. And for a while, I was deeply resentful that it had happened so early and that it was this. You know, it cast a shadow over me. And then sometime around. Around the middle of my. My run on Star Trek, I was like, yeah, I mean, I could treat it that way, or I could be really happy and proud that I'm standing on its shoulders, and I could be really grateful for it. And even then, I was afraid to really take ownership of it.

I spent. I spent my 30s and the first half of my 40s as a functioning alcoholic. And I'm. I've been sober for almost 10 years. And when I quit drinking.

Everything that had been obscuring all of the pain that I was. That I was trying to hide from, everything that every coping mechanism I had stacked up to insulate me from the reality of what my childhood was, it all went away. And to deal with the pain and reality of that, I started EMDR therapy and working with a therapist. And it's taken a long time. I mean, it's been almost 10 years, but I finally feel, like, genuine ownership of a lot of the stuff that I've done that was always mine to begin with, but I just didn't have what it takes to. To. I didn't have what I needed to be able to, like, enjoy that and feel safe enjoying it. Like someone wasn't gonna rip it out of my hands.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, God, dude, you. You. I. It's one. I'm so happy that you can enjoy the. That you've done. And it's tough Especially when you have that kind of a childhood. Whether it's.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Most artists, you know, that. That we love that, you know.

[Wil Wheaton]

Know.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You know, in some of them, you know, the Amy Winehouse is. For Christ's sake. You know, she's. She. She's a. She's an example of someone that just couldn't handle it, you know, but she's literally fighting for the love of her dad, fighting the love of Blake, and just. And just. And then also is in the media and. And what. And just could not handle it. And so we see it all the time. And. And the idea. Same thing with me, dude, it's like the. The addiction, all of that. It all stems. And people always ask, like, don't you need this program or that program? It's like, the thing that. That kept me sober is. Is therapy is like, digging into why you use. And then being able to step back. Because even when I was having my most success, you know, at the time in my career, when I had my TV shows and this. That it's like, oh, I couldn't enjoy one second of it because I'm still dealing with all the pain that I've got. And. And so years late, I mean, dude, people. I mean, I. I bet it's the same thing.

[Wil Wheaton]

People.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You probably complimented you like, oh, my God, I love this. And you, like, people would compliment me, and I would be like, I turned into the elephant Man. Like. Like, I'm a freak. I don't deserve. I don't deserve any of this.

[Wil Wheaton]

Like, I would feel embarrassed. I would feel embarrassed. And what I would think. And what I thought for the longest time was, oh, they just don't know. These people that are telling me that I'm. That I'm. They don't know. Like, I've just fooled them. My dad's the one who really knows. And it took a lot of time, you know, And I know that there's somebody watching or listening to this who very painfully and uncomfortably feels something familiar in this. I want to tell that person, you're enough. There's nothing wrong with you. Oh, yeah, it's them. It's. It is. It's all them. It has nothing to do with you. I hope that you can find your way to a place that I have found where it feels safe to accept that and have the sadness of, gosh, I wish that you had made different choices, whoever it is that caused the pain, rather than, oh, I wish I was different, or I, you know, I'm not going to be satisfied with my life or Whatever. You're enough, buddy.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, it takes a lot, dude. A lot of people don't. It takes, you know, countless. Countless years of therapy for people to understand that. And it's such a simple thing just being like, oh, man, this journey is so short. Just enjoy this little bit of time. Don't waste your time. Like. Like, you know, the past has already happened. Like, know that that doesn't define you, and you can't worry about the future because it hasn't happened yet. So just know that, like, you know, and for the most part, people. Most people are doing okay, and they don't even. They real. They don't even realize it because they're just so stuck on the. That them up earlier, you know, and. And it's crazy that, like, sometimes it just takes getting older, realizing that, you know, because my 30s, I was still dealing with it. And then you get into your 40s and you're like. You're like, oh, it's not that bad. This rules. It's like. It's like, you know, I've got. Maybe, if I'm lucky, I've got like 40 summers left. I got 40 Christmases. Like. Like, I. I want to try to enjoy the rest of them. And you can find, you know, the simple pleasures in life through, like you said earlier, getting lost in music, you know, building those friendships. And, you know, yes, you have to keep some walls up and not be, you know, not let everybody in.

[Wil Wheaton]

And.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But there's also, like. There's also something about not keeping that, like you said, keeping the drawbridge up. Like, you can't keep it up all the time, because if you keep that up all the time, you're gonna miss out on really deep connections with really incredible people, you know, and. And trust me, I'm saying that to myself because I've. I've always been since, like 2012, have kept that drawbridge up. And it's like, I'll let it down a little bit, and then I'm like, man, you know, and it's. And I. I do so much by myself, and. And I do enjoy that. But there is something about, you know, your. Your. Your parents or your family does not define who you are. They. You know, you aren't them, you know, and. And. And. And you can really. The older you get, you can really start shedding all that. That. And that's what's kind of beautiful about. About life, dude. It's like, we. You wouldn't be who you are and. And be in such a positive mindset if you hadn't gone through all that learned and, and then been able to kind of like, like, you know, accept and just go, no, it's, it's. It's okay. And it is okay. You know, it is. It's just. It's crazy, dude. It's. It's crazy that, you know, we make this whole. This journey so difficult on so many levels. And it doesn't have to be like. It really doesn't.

[Wil Wheaton]

You know, One of the things. One of the things that I absolutely love about punk rock is.

The community. First of all, it's the flattest of all the musical genres in terms of relationship between performer and audience. Performer and audience are like this. You know, in pop music, performers hear an audience is somewhere down here. But in punk, it's like this, right? And.

The community of people that's drawn to that overwhelmingly just say, hey, you're. You're weird. You got some weird going on. That's great. Bring it in. Come on.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, come here. We got you.

[Wil Wheaton]

Oh. People treat you weird because you like this kind of music or because your hair is funny or because of the way you dress. Come on, we don't care. Let's go. And it doesn't matter. And I'm not talking about, like, oh, you can show up in, like, your vest and your, you know, and all of that stuff. I have seen extremely preppy kids in collared shirts at punk shows.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, sure.

[Wil Wheaton]

Having the absolute time of their life being allowed to exist exactly as they are. I don't think the importance of music as a catalyst for healing can be overstated. I just think it's so incredibly important. How many times do you hear people talk about, I heard this song and I was like, oh, my God, that was written for me. I saw a thing in there. I remember I was dating a girl when I was younger. It just didn't work. It was silly and should have ended a long time before it did. Dookie comes out. And there's that line of dookie. You can't go forcing something if it's just not right. And I was like, God damn it, Billy Joe Armstrong. You're right. I'm breaking up with her.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I love it.

[Wil Wheaton]

We both deserve better.

[Josh Adam Myers]

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Hey, everybody. So you guys have probably heard me talk about how I've been in bands my whole life.

[Wil Wheaton]

Life.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I love writing songs and performing in front of crowds. Just like with comedy. As a musician, it can be kind of hard to cut through the noise and really stand out as an artist. I feel like half the music projects I've been in have ended just because we couldn't figure out the answer to that eternal question of how do we get people to hear us? But then again, that was before there was Distrokid. Distrokid is a digital music distribution service that brings your sound to the main masses. It's a one stop shop for getting your songs on itunes, Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube Music, Amazon, Deezer, Tidal, and many more. What's Deezer? I never even heard of Deezer. How many of them are there? I Know all that. That's like the holy grail of streaming services, though. And getting paid. They want to. We want to get you paid for your music. That's huge because a lot of bands go broke before they get big. But Distrokid collects earnings and payments and sends 100% of these earnings to artists minus banking fees and applicable taxes. And that's just one of the tons of benefits of using Distrokid. You can send big files to anyone with their Instant Share feature. You can use the Hyper Follow feature to promote your release and get pre saves on your song. You can even create personal landing pages for yourself, your band, your brand, and whatever you like. It has a free Spotify Canvas generator too, to generate your own Spotify canvas for your songs. And the Mixia feature instantly masters your tracks for higher quality audio. So if you're ready to bring your band to the next level, it's time to check out Distrokid. The Distrokid app is now available on iOS and Android. Go to the app or Play Store to download it. Listeners of this show can get 30% off their first first year by going to distrokid.com VIP the 500. That's distrokid.com VIP the500 for 30% off your first year. Dig it.

There's. But that's, that's what's so great about. I mean, there was, there was moments in this record, you know, to bring it back that it's like, it's, it did feel like, like whether I, I, you know, because lyrically, I mean, you gotta give, you gotta give. What's his name? Like, really. I wanted to look on the lyrics like he, he really, he really is like, mate. You know, it is like we said, it is a very concrete, you know, New York in the 70s. But, but what he's talking about.

Is, is it feels. I don't know how to put it, but it's like, like it definitely. It doesn't. It transcends just the, the year. Like what Tom is saying. It has, it has like lyrics that, that feel to me like it's. They're, they're. It's raw being like that punk thing. But there is this poetic, like, genius in some of the things that he's saying. Like, even in, even in the title track. Like, you know, not the title track. In the opening track, See no Evil, I mean, you know, you're, you're. It opens up with this like very like taught energy that there's this tension and release with the Guitar style, you know, And Tom seems to just be like, you know, not. It's not. He's not forcing the lyrics with the music. It almost is go. It's. It doesn't feel. It fits, but it doesn't. But it's perfect in that capacity of that song. And I feel like it's. What a great way for me to be a person to like, listen to this album and be like, this is the first time I'm hearing television. You know, besides Marquis Moon. Is this be the opening song? I think it's a perfect way to open the record.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah. Lyrically, he is saying to the listener, I understand destructive urges. I see no evil. Come on, you're safe here. Let's go. I'll be with you for roughly 45 minutes.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yes.

[Wil Wheaton]

And. And this is. And this is where we're gonna be. It's. Yeah, I. I very much love that.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I wanted to ask you a question about. See, no Evil is like you. You were in a movie that I really like, but I don't think. Think, you know, you were very happy with it. The curse. Like, you know, it is. It is. To me. It is a. It is. It is a. I love that movie. I love. I love Lovecraft. I mean, I think all of his, like, is super weird. Like, what was your experience like working on something like that? I mean, it's. It's opposite than everything you would have done up at that point.

[Wil Wheaton]

You know, it was horrific. It was horrific. It was the. It is the reason I have cptsd. Really horrific, abusive, miserable time in my life. When you watch that movie, you are seeing two children who are being actively abused day in and day out around adults who did absolutely nothing to protect us. Really?

[Josh Adam Myers]

I didn't know. I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to bring that up.

[Wil Wheaton]

It's okay. You don't know. And I'm happy to talk about it because it does come up from time to time. And I think it's important that people know because one of the. One of the ways that abusers get away with being abusive is they're the people that. That they targeted are ashamed and afraid to talk about it. And I'm not. We didn't do anything wrong. That was 100 on my parents. They should have protected me. My parents should. Have. Should have put my sister and me on an airplane and brought us back to America when they were breaking every single child welfare law, when they were putting us in harm's way day after day after day.

You know, that. That film I Didn't want to do it. I read the script and it was awful. It was a piece of shit. It was a garbage, straight to video horror movie. And at that time in my Life, this was 1987, stand by me been out for a little bit. I'd done a couple of like smaller projects, some TV things. And I knew the next movie is very important.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Sure, right.

[Wil Wheaton]

The sophomore movie is more important than the first at bat. And this, this studio came to my parents and they, they took advantage of my parents inexperience and greed and how easily manipulated they were. They threw an obscene amount of money at them. And I had been. And I was told by my dad, you don't have a choice. You're doing this movie. And I didn't, I didn't want to do it.

And they forced me to. And it was in addition to being an absolute piece of shit that took all the wind out of my career sails. River Phoenix went on to do the Mosquito coast after.

After Stand by me and my parents forced me into this piece of shit where Italian horror director Lucio Fulci tied chickens to my sister, who was six years old, tied to chickens to my sister's body and let them peck at her. When one of the makeup artists on the film cut my sister's face with an X acto knife to make it look because she didn't want to do the makeup, where there were adult women in the cast who were sexually inappropriate with me. The director of the film.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Had.

[Wil Wheaton]

There's a scene where I'm supposed to be pushed down into what could have been mud. But he had it, it, he made it actual cow shit because he wanted to, to like get a real reaction from me. In every one of these instances I told my parents what was going on and they never stood up for me. They never protected me. The terror that I felt while I was on that set.

It'S. It's still with me to this I can imagine.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I had no idea.

[Wil Wheaton]

It is only through extensive therap and extensive reprocessing work that I've been able to really get that kind of dialed down and tamed. And the primary reason I became a functioning alcoholic is I just wanted to go to sleep. Yeah, I just wanted to be able to fall asleep without the terror. I would start to fall asleep and then I would wake up in absolute pant shitting terror every single night. It was awful.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh my God.

[Wil Wheaton]

I was super depressed. I was suicidal for a really long time because it was so intense. I'm okay now. I Got over all of it. The people who did that to my sister and me have never been held accountable for what they did. The director of that movie, David Keith, went on to found some I care about kids organization. And I would think that if he cared about kids, he would reach out to the adult children who he participated in the abuse of and apologize and never in all. In. In all of these years.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That's horrible. I had no idea. I'm so sorry, dude. I didn't. I did not mean to bring that up. And like, I always love, like, 80s horror movies.

[Wil Wheaton]

I get it. I totally get it. That is a movie that has a lot of fans, and I just want them to know because I would love it if that movie disappeared forever. I would love it if people just stopped watching it. And I love it. I would love it if people would say, you know, that's a movie of kids being abused. So, like, you know, if you wouldn't. If you wouldn't willingly watch kids, you know, then.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, I mean, no, let me ask. Did that. Is that something that you were able, like, years later, whatever, to talk to Corey about and kind of like, because, I mean, just all the history of the stuff that he had to go through too. It's like, you found out later. It's like, I mean, has that made you and him closer over the years? Because. I don't know. I don't know, Jerry. He just seems like he's had this very. I don't say a very easy life. He's just a fun guy, whatever capacity. But they're like, I said to now talk to you and hear the. The, you know, because I had no idea. I knew of it, but I didn't know it was like that. And then obviously Corey has been very outspoken about, like, the abuse that he had to go through. I mean, I. I can imagine. Like, is that something that, you know, was there a moment where you and him were both like, dude, what the. You too? And then, you know.

[Wil Wheaton]

Around the same time that my life and River's life diverged.

My life and Corey's life diverged after production. Like I said, I was like, this guy's kind of a bully. I don't need to hang out. Out with him.

I still really liked him as an actor. I loved all the movies that he was in. But I. But I very often felt like I was just like, no, I've got my own friends, my nerdy gaming friends and stuff, and I don't need to maintain that relationship. River.

Went off in. In his direction and Was in a lot of pain and you know, both of them were using drugs. Corey got sober before river died and tried to get there to like help river and couldn't.

I just never really had a reason to like be close to him, you know, during that entire era. It was a lot of like, I don't know, I just felt like there were. There was dark, chaotic energy around Corey and, and he has this. And he had this gravitational pull that was catching just really yucky people in it. And I didn't want to be around.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Any of that at all, of course.

[Wil Wheaton]

So I just kept my distance without judging judgment. And recently, like within the last two years, we were both at a, like a sci fi convention. He was there for Lost Boys, I was there for Star Trek. And we saw each other in the green room and just sat down and had lunch together. And for the first time ever in our lives, we talked about.

Our shared experiences as abused kids, our shared experience as kids who were exploited by their parents. And you know, one of the things that my mom would do when I was growing up is she would find the worst behaved mom in an audition or on the set and point to that terribly behaving mom and make sure that I knew that she wasn't like that. And you know, one of the really unspeakable things Corey's mom did when we started Stand By Me is she brought him up to Eugene, Oregon at 14 years old old and just dropped him off. It was like, you don't get to have a parent here. Go to work. I'm going to have a guardian for you while you go to work. And Corey talks about how much that hurt him and, and you know, a lot of kids think that would be so great, you could do whatever you want. Like, no, it's not. I mean, it's cool for like a couple of days, but then you're like, I need my mom.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Wil Wheaton]

I mean, even his dad, who gave less of a about Corey than my dad, gave about me, me actually came up to the set to spend time with him because somebody from production was like, your kid is like having a real hard time. We talked about that a lot. And I was like, my God, Corey.

We are so alike. You know, we just made, we, we had a lot of the same experiences as kids. Thankfully I was not sexually abused the way he was. And, and I was really kept out of a lot of the, the teen clubs and teen party things that were like a lot of predators showed up at those things. I just never interested in that, you know, it just, it was a lifestyle that I didn't care about. I didn't want to be in Hollywood. I didn't want to be on teen magazines. I didn't want to be on Entertainment Tonight. I didn't want anybody to pay attention to me. I wanted the work to be the work and I wanted my life to be my life. And the sooner I could stop doing the work and do what I wanted to do, the better that was. That was my. That was how I wanted to do everything. I'm really, really glad that we had those conversations, he and I, that we did within the last couple of years. And I'm grateful that we spent eight hours a day together on a bus over the last four days, driving from city to city to do these shows together, because we talked a lot about what our experiences were like growing up and, and we talked a lot about those things that, that we shared that were similar.

And.

I wish that I'd known.

But I think that's one of the things, you know, abuse abusers, they kind of, they try to isolate their targets from anybody else who could tell them, P.S. this is not okay what's happening to you. And I think that each of us experienced that we're never going to be super close friends. We're good friends and, and I respect him and I love him and, and I care about him. And we just have very, very different lives. Sure. And, and what we do have, the three of us, what we do have is very special. And it was real cool to experience that and reaffirm that day after day after day on the first leg of our tour. I am so looking forward to next year. I think we have, have.

I think we've announced two or three dates. We have, we have more that we're hoping for. We haven't announced them because we haven't fully booked them yet, but that's definitely in our plans of, you know, things to do to take this out and, and share this experience with more people.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Whose idea was this to do the 40 year anniversary trip? Who did. Were you approached by somebody? Was there a catalyst that kind of like moved everything forward?

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah, there's a guy named Dan Pasternak. He's. He used to be a stand up comedian. He was a producer on Portlandia. He is a friend of Jerry's and he'd been doing this type of tour. He's done it with a documentary about John Candy. And I think they had done it with the Breakfast Club or maybe they'd done it with, with like say Anything or Just one of those kind of like 80s, you know, brat Pack movies. And he said to Jerry, I think with the, the anniversary Stand By Me coming up, this probably seems like it would be a cool thing to do. And, and Jerry called me and was like, what do you think? And, and I, and I said, well, I, yeah, we have to do this. Like, this is, this is such a great, such a great idea.

And, and it's, it's just been a couple of shows, but it's been really cool. It's been really, really neat. And the thing that's really, I, I expect to see people our age, right? But there's young people too.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Of course there's kids.

[Wil Wheaton]

Gen Z loves this movie. And I think that Stand By Me right now is a real important movie for young people, especially boys, to see. I listen. The male loneliness epidemic is real, but it's a male consequences epidemic, right? Like, dudes, if you listen to shitty, toxic men who tell you go be really shitty and be a bully and treat women like crap and try to start fights all the time, time, nobody wants to be around that dude, you're lonely because the people that you're listening to are exploiting you and controlling you, right? Because you're always online, because you're always in your phone. Because the, the space you are in most is a space where there is not a person in front of you. There's a device in front of you. One of the things Stand By Me shows is that relationships among young men can be healthy and emotional and vulnerable and strong and masculine and real right in front of each other. And it's a really, I think that it is a good inspiration and it's a good reminder to younger audiences, like, it does not have to be the way it is for you guys right now. And this is, you know, and I know I'm a very old man talking about this and I'm shouting at a cloud and all of that stuff, but just I see how, I see how young people are hurting. I really see it a lot and I'm really happy to see people come out for this to, to experience the togetherness.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh my God. It's, you know, you had mentioned it earlier about like, introdo, you want to be a dish jockey and introduce people to cool music. It's like, how could people our age that have now have kids not want to introduce those movies that we've mentioned growing up? The Back to the Futures, the, yeah, you know, the Goonies, the Gremlins, whatever the it is. And, and in this. Because this Is like, you know, this is like the. An adult kids movie where it's like the adults can love this, but then kids can also be. Still feel like we can, oh, I'm that guy or I'm this. And it's just. It really has a weight to it that is. That is so, you know, important. And there's the life lessons, there's the growing up. It's like, you know, it really is. It's just. It's something that, that you can't. You like, you cannot duplicate. Just this perfect two hours or hour 45, however long it is. Just every 89 minutes.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah, I mean, 89. It's so tight. It moves along so beautifully. Watching it this way, I'm starting to analyze it, you know.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Wil Wheaton]

Like, it's as I'm. I am a writer now when. When I am. When I. My two primary jobs. I host an audiobook. Podcast. Audiobook, short story podcast. And I write short stories of mine own. That's what I do. That literary world is where I live. And I read stuff and I can't help but analyze it as I'm going. And I'm seeing like, oh, I'm seeing how that they put this together and I'm seeing how they moved it all along. So I started doing that with Standby Me as well. And seeing how it is paced and how it. And it's just. Ah, it's so. It's so good, dude.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I. Venus, really on the second track. We'll move this. We'll move this. I only wanted. I only wanted to bring up Venus this, you know, because, you know, we've talked so much about. We talked so much about Star Trek. And by the way, it's like, you know, there. This is. This is a. A poetic song. It's a little bit moodier. It's lyrically ambiguous. I wrote, you know, dreamy urban imagery, but I want to focus on the word Venus, which, you know, you know, to work on something like Star Trek the Next Generation for you to be as part of something. I mean, and like everything I've. I've learned about you and please, I'm saying this with all due respect. You are the inner nerd of you gets to come out. Which, you know, which. That's not. That's not. A nerd is not a bad word. It's just. It is not.

[Wil Wheaton]

Of course not.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It is. It is just like, you know, were you already a fan of Star Trek before you got. Yeah. So how did. Did that just like, just. Just flip your lid? The fact that you got that. I mean, was that probably the thing you wanted the most out of anything in your career? I can only imagine, like with that.

[Wil Wheaton]

Audition, like my earliest memory of Star Trek trick is sitting in the yard at the, at a. So when I. This would have been about 1975 or 76. Would have been 1975. It's before we went to Texas in 1975.

My dad made a teepee in the yard out of a couple of broomsticks and what we called the big blue blanket. It and my, my great aunt had given me a little wind up plastic record player and a few records to play on it. And one of the records was from Power Records and it was a Star Trek dramatization called Crier in the Emptiness. And it is, it's not even the Star Trek actors, it's just, it's other people doing these characters. And I listened to that thing to death. Like I loved it. And it was one of those things where you like, you know, flip through the book right. While it's, while it's going on.

A few years later. This is probably now 1978, maybe 1979.

In. I'm either in kindergarten or first grade and it's like lunchtime and the kids want to go play like cops and robbers or Star wars. And like I want to play Star Trek on the, on the jungle gym and I want to be Mr. Spock because I've been watching the show every day after school.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Wil Wheaton]

And when I'm that young, I don't fully appreciate all the philosophical implications of it. But what I realized as an adult is that I grew up watching a multicultural.

Like demonstrably secular humanist show about.

What become my values, my fundamental humanist values, which is one of the reasons that I say art is so important.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Wil Wheaton]

One of the reasons that I always point out if art. You know, the. Every single one of us who works in the arts, especially those of us who work in the performing arts, we are constantly being pushed down by people who tell us that it's not, you know, this isn't a real job or, you know, anyone can do it or we're going to replace you with a fucking computer or whatever that is always because they are afraid of how we inspire people to challenge their authority. We inspire people to find ways to rise out of, of a place a powerful person would like to keep them. And I think that, that it's really important. So when I was cast in Star Trek and I was like, oh my God, I get to go be on the Enterprise, I get to be in, in the transporter room. I get to wear a space suit and use a communicator. Every single piece of it was, was, was, was. It was, was even cooler than, than you think it was. It was, it was an absolute dream come true for me. The only other cast member of Next Generation who considered themselves a fan of Star Trek as opposed to being familiar with Star Trek, was LeVar Burton.

[Josh Adam Myers]

He really.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah, he, he and I were the ones who, who really liked it, but none of them, none of them loved it the way I did.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, my God. I have a LeVar Burton story. It's a, it's a not, I'm gonna say dirty. It's actually a very big compliment to him. But I. There was a bath house I go to and, and, and it's like there's a guy section, a girl sections in LA called the Beverly Hot Springs. I don't know if I should say this. I'm just saying is, dude, big ups to LeVar Burton that. God damn, he's packing heat, dude. Let's just say that dude Reading rainbow. That guy's killing the game, dude. He is.

I don't know how to put it would be classy, but good God, levar, you're killing it, dude.

[Wil Wheaton]

My podcast is called It's Story Time with Will Wheat. And every, every week I do a. A short piece of speculative fiction from like, Light Speed, Uncanny, Clark's World, places like that. And I started it because I was inspired by levar. I loved. I was such a fan of levar Burton reeds. When I would walk my dog, when I would go just take like, my exercise walks or whatever, I would listen to him read me stories. When it was time to go to bed, I would listen to Lavara read me stories. I love it. And when, when his podcast ended, I reached out to him and, and I said, like, I have this idea to do a podcast of my own that's very much inspired by yours, but I don't want to step on your toes, and I am only going to do this if I have your blessing. And Lavaro was like, not only do you have my blessing, I now demand that you do this. And I will be there for you every single step of the way. You can always pick up the phone and call me. I love that. And, and when my first episode was released.

LeVar called me and he said, I, I want you to know how proud of you I am and how happy I am for you. And this was just. This is a big moment for you and I didn't want it to just be a text message.

And that like, that. I cannot tell you anything. If you don't know who LeVar Burton is by the end of that, no one's ever going to know who he is.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, what I mean was, was everybody on. Because you're obviously the youngest person in that cast. I mean, was. Everybody did not say they didn't treat you like an adult because how old do you work when you. For when you start working on Star Trek?

[Wil Wheaton]

I was there from 14 to 19 and the cast never treated me like a kid.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Really?

Yeah, that, that's. I mean, that's, that's. I. Especially just from, you know, from. Especially coming off some other movies where, like, we talked about the curse, it's like to finally get into something that, like, you, you know, I mean, that, that must have been just. And for something so important for you too, you know, when I would go.

[Wil Wheaton]

Home from the set, like, I went into a house where I just didn't fit and I was not welcome and I couldn't relax and, and I, I hated that. Yeah, I would go to work and my castmates treated me like a family more than my family did. And I finally told them all a few years ago how much I appreciated that. Like, I never talked about it. I never talked with anybody about what was going on at home because I was embarrassed and ashamed and believed it was my fault. And they were the ones that inspired me. Me. And, and, and like, I could have so easily followed river or Corey. Easily, Easily, easily, easily. It is, it is a miracle that I did not. And I think that a big, big, big part of that is that the people I was close to that had credibility with me were nerds. Like, I was right. We were, were. We were board game nerds when it was extremely not cool to be a board game nerds pre tabletop. This is like, not, this is a time where being a Star Trek nerd was not. This is when William Shatner did the Get a Life bit on SNL that killed. That was so funny. There was nothing cool about it. Right. Those were, those were my friends. And so like the draw of the darkness of like, like, you know, the, the dangerous kind of like, like exclusive world of that. That is sort of sold from that. Like, you know, you're gonna have a great Hunter S. Thompson experience. You're probably not gonna have that experience. Probably be pretty terrible for you. That was if that was ever presented to me. The people that I was friends with were like, that's lame. What do you want to do any of that for? Like, that's, you know. But my castmates were like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, you are. We're gonna keep an eye on you and we're gonna take care of you. There's a legendary Christmas party at the Cheers set in like 1989, which probably had about 75 pounds of cocaine inside of it, you know, and we were having our Christmas party the same night they were having their Christmas party. And I went to our Christmas party and, and didn't drink or do drugs or anything like that. Just hung out with my friends. And then they were all gonna, a bunch of them were gonna go over to that set and I was like, oh, I want to go. And I just so clearly remember Franks and Marina being like, no, that is no place for a kid. You are not going to that set. And I'm really glad that they, that they kept me away. But they, and they still to this day, they're all in their 70s. When I need that moment where I would be a son reaching out to a parent, I can text our group chat and say, I, I just. Will you guys be my parents for a minute?

[Josh Adam Myers]

It.

[Wil Wheaton]

And every single one of them shows up. It's really.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I love that. I love that man. And, and once again, another, another TV show of just perfect casting, especially to take the torch from the original Star Trek cast. You know, Patrick, every, everybody on that show was just perfect. And I wasn't a Star Trek fan of the original, but then I became a fan of the Next Generation and my sister and everybody. It was just, it was, was. You didn't have to be like, you know, into science fiction. It was just a good show. And it was also one of those shows that sometimes you could just jump into an episode.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And just be a part of it and, and not have to worry about do I know everything. You just kind of, you know, could, could go with the flow of it.

[Wil Wheaton]

That's something I really like about the New Strange New World show. It's episodic and you can see one episode out of order and it doesn't matter. I really love the long story, the long form storytelling of season long arc. I think it's cool. When we were doing Star Trek, we wanted to do episodes like that. We really wanted to do two and three part episodes. They didn't start doing that till Deep Space Nine, but we really wanted to do that. And as much as I enjoy that as an audience and also like really cherish it as a performer, I I now I've come around to where I much prefer episodic. I prefer something that I can, I can hop in and 42 minutes later, I can hop right back out. I've had a wonderful time. I can move on.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah. That's why Law and Order svu, man, It's. They play it all the time. And you can, you can start, you know exactly what's going on. I love south park when they did those, those that one season where they had the continuous story. But there's something great just about. This is the episode. It's perfect. I don't need to know anything else. Simpsons, everything. It's just there every now and then.

[Wil Wheaton]

I just need, like, something from season four of the Simpsons.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yes.

[Wil Wheaton]

That's all. I just need that, and then I'll be fine.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yes. Oh, my God.

[Wil Wheaton]

Don't talk to me until I've had my season four of the Simpsons.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, my God. Dude. It's the, the, I think the greatest run in television history. I'll even go, I'll say three up until about 16 of the Simpsons.

[Wil Wheaton]

Oh, really? Oh, I won't go that far. I, I, I, I, I completely cut it off at 12.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Really?

[Wil Wheaton]

Even though, and, and even 10 to 12. This is a whole other podcast.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Of course, of course.

[Wil Wheaton]

Three hour conversation.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No, but it's, but you know what? You're 100, right. But this is the thing. And I'll give them, I'll give them their flowers because I'll watch football on Sunday days and then my, I'll leave the TV on Fox or whatever and like a Simpsons episode will come on and I haven't watched. It hasn't been like, must watch television, the new episodes in, in years. And yet one will be on. I'll still watch it. And I'll go, it's still great. It's not, it's not, it's not, you know, you know, in 1995 or, or even like the early 2000s. It's still great, though. It's matzo ball soup. And I think that's the same with the Next Generation and any Star Trek.

[Wil Wheaton]

That's a really good way to describe it. Yeah, absolutely.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You just, you feel, you feel good.

[Wil Wheaton]

Good. Yeah. Every time it's put in front of you, no matter what mood you're in, you're like, oh, actually, that sounds really good.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's never bad. It's never bad. It's, it's. Dude, it's still, it's not as good, but that's. Dude, they've been on for the stair for damn near 40 years at this point. It's like, of course you're gonna start. You know, you've done every story. Like, what else can you. Like, where else can you. Even Star Trek. It's like, where else can they explore? Like, they've been everywhere. Like, big universe, man. That's. That's true. Speaking of big universe. To wrap this up. I know we've. We've got it. We got to talk about Marque Moon. Yeah, we've got to talk about this one song. Yeah. 11 minutes. The centerpiece of the record. I mean, the.

[Wil Wheaton]

The.

[Josh Adam Myers]

The angular guitars, the. The. I love. Like, this is a. This is a drive song. This is like a late night, you know, walking around New York city or anything.

[Wil Wheaton]

DJs got to go smoke a cigarette and go to the bathroom. Like, that's definitely when this gets put on fun.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I. I just, you know, it's funny. Oh, dude. It's like, this is. I wish I knew about this song. When I was a strip club dj, I would have put this on, gone to take a. Come back, gonna get food. It's just. Dude, It's a. It's 11 minutes. And then to know, like, you said that this was all done in one take. And it just feels. You know, it just feels so. It's so perfect. It's such a perfect encapsulation of what this band is. The sound, the vibe, the melody. It's. It's.

[Wil Wheaton]

You know.

The main guitar phrase is so compelling and. And it propels the entire piece all the way through. And, you know, there's. I'm sure you've heard the joke that goes something like, all right, maybe settle down with the solos. Toto's African. Like, you've had. You know, I think there's like three or four big solos in it. You know, it's like, all right, I get it. Y' all need to have your moment. I'm very proud of you.

About two thirds of the way through this song, there is that really nice, long, extended guitar solo that almost sounds like it's played on one string where he. You know, he goes all the way through that, and then there is an exhalation. Like, the song could really be over, right? We've gone through this wonderful, like, quiet. The notes are pure and they're clear, and they've got such incredible resonance, and it settles down, and then they slowly bring back that.

You, like, you know, you're coming back to that, and it picks you right back up the same way. Like, carry on wayward like you think you've gotten to the end of it. It's like, actually, no, here we go again.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I.

[Wil Wheaton]

This is not an arena rock song.

[Josh Adam Myers]

This is a club song, man. It's a club song and they do.

[Wil Wheaton]

It in a club song. And you're just like, can you imagine being in cbgb? Like just anywhere in that filthy place? And like that. That's just going, right? And you know that it crescendos, that it soars to that part of the song. And when you see it lost live, of course they're gonna hold that beat, right? They're gonna hold that beat until the audience is just starving for that note to come back. And then it does, and it just carries you all the way through to the end. And.

It'S like you're crowd surfing this song.

Without ever leaving your seat beat.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It is. It is such a. It is such a. Like, I. You mentioned earlier about watching live performances of this. Like, I've never seen them do this live. This is something that I would love, you know, to go back in time at CBGB's and just seeing all the hip people that are probably there just partying to this song and, you know, and looking at the strange face of. Of Tom, like, he's got that like, Richard Ashcroft look, which is like that slim face with the big eyes. And it's just. They're just. It's just. It's a.

[Wil Wheaton]

It's a.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's a cool song to go with a cool band, you know, And. And like, you talked about that solo. It's. It's just. Is it a solo? Like, it's very. It's just. It's just these, like, these angular noises and.

[Wil Wheaton]

And.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And yet over that, it's. And then it's all coming together with, you know, with the. The rehash of.

It. Is. It is something that. The first time I heard it, immediately I saved it and was like, oh, this is. This is good. And not knowing anything about the band, you know, I. I'll be honest, it's. It's the probably the most popular song on, you know, by. By television on this record. It's obviously the records named after it. It's still not my favorite song on the record. That's what's so great about it. It's so good and yet there are so much other good on this record. It's just. It's really, really impressive to. To come out with your first album and it. To be. I mean, it. To be this good and to make something this important. It's just, it's. It's incredible. And like, kudos to the drums by Billy Fica and, and, and Richard Lloyd, Fred Smith. I mean, it's just a really, really, just a. It's a very mature record for guys that are so young when they make this. I mean, it's really impressive. Impressive, dude.

[Wil Wheaton]

You can really tell that they spent time figuring out what they wanted it to sound like. They. Can you imagine what kind of courage it takes to tell Brian eno no. In 1976. Are you kidding me? Every one of these guys has been. Has been influenced by Bowie and Iggy going to Berlin. Every single one of these guys has been influenced by the New York Dolls and, and, and the MC5 and like these, and these, these bands that are, are.

That are just so specific and.

You know, musically, sonically, this is not a complicated song at all. Like, it's. It doesn't have a lot of. Doesn't have a. Doesn't have a ton of changes. It has minimal production. I remember reading Tom Verlaine talking about that, that if they had gone with Eno, it just would not have been. It wouldn't have been sharp enough. He would have sanded all the edges off. And.

I guess it's meaningful that this album was effectively recorded live in that they didn't multi track it. Right. They were all in the room, every piece. Everything is miked, but they're recording it together and recording it live. And that's just like.

The trust that they have in each other and the belief that they have in themselves.

Yeah, that is. And to know that you're gonna. You're gonna put an album out with. With this song that is not. Probably not gonna get a lot of radio play. You're definitely not getting drive time with this at all.

But there are other songs, you know, there are other songs on the album that, that, that I also absolutely love for like, you know, completely different reasons. I love. Prove it.

And Hang on just a second. Friction. I forget the name. Friction is so good and it just.

I keep returning to this in 2025. We can take for granted so many musical choices that they made with this record in 1976. No one is doing this.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No.

[Wil Wheaton]

Nobody comes out and hits like Frisian could easily be a single if it's like a minute less, you know, and, and they just, they don't compromise and they make, make. They make it exactly what it is. And like, look, man, to everybody who loves Joy Division and Bow House and Loving Rockets and, and Susie and the Banshees and, and, and Dolly's car and you know, and, and like.

Thank you, Tom Verlaine. Thank you, Richard. Hell, like, thank you guys. Like, thank you for doing this. Like, these guys got together for like two or three days in 1976, and here we are over 50 years later looking back at what they did then and holy. The amount of stuff that's just piled up on top of that. It is an upside down pyramid. Right? And it's just, it's just remarkable.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It really is. And, and I, and I keep. The. More as you're saying that and I'm listening, I'm reading over just more stuff about like, like big ups to Elektra for not fiddling with them and giving them the budget to really just go in there and just like make the record that they want. Because you said something earlier about every studio execs got to put their little doodads in and that up everything. And for them to be able to say, listen, we're gonna, if we're gonna record it this way, we need to be tight. And for them to rehearse and rehearse and, and know each other so well. Which for the last question I wanted to ask you, was there out of all the things that you've done, all the movies, the, the writings, everything, the podcasting, everything you've done, what has been your, your Marky Moon moment? Meaning you just nailed it on the first thing, you were like, holy. Like is. And any of the. Because you've done so much.

[Wil Wheaton]

Cool.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It was like maybe a long monologue.

[Wil Wheaton]

Whatever.

[Josh Adam Myers]

What's. What's your Marky Moon moment?

[Wil Wheaton]

That's a really good question. That is an exceptionally loaded question for me. I'm gonna have to talk to it and figure.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I know, especially, Especially at an hour 40 to the podcast.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yes.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But dude, I mean, I, I just, as I'm saying it, I'm like, dude, it's like, it's such. You, you, you know, we've all.

[Wil Wheaton]

Okay, so, like as a, just speaking as like a technical accomplishment. Yeah.

This isn't anything special, but technically it's impressive. When we were working on Star Trek, we would do these walk and talk scenes in the corridors of the Enterprise. And those corridors were built on stage nine at Paramount, and there was a long corridor, sort of a half moon, and it had a couple of spurs that went off it. One spur went down to the transporter room and another one would be redressed to be where engineering was, where the big engineering kind of pool table was. And.

The floor of that stage was creaky. And when they would put the dolly down, the dolly would make a lot of noise. So we'd do these walk and talks and we would inevitably have to go back to do ADR recording and.

Rerecord our lines so that they would be clean.

One of my great technical achievements is that I'm. I am in a scene with Frakes in like the second or third season. And it's.

A pretty long scene, it's probably two pages. And we had to loop the entire scene. And you never want to do that because it sucks recreating the performance and, you know, you're working in isolation of the other actor and all that. But I was like, I can do this in one take. I can do this in one take. Just leave it open and I'll just do my side of the scene. Just play it in my headset. And I killed it. And I did it in one take.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Take.

[Wil Wheaton]

I did the entire thing in one take. And we only did one take because I did it perfectly in one take. And I, I wore that merit badge for the rest of the production of the series. And I was like, so. Because Frakes and I had had this fun little competition of who can do more lines all at one time. And I was like, I did the whole scene. I think that I, I'm gold medalist forever.

Technically, that, that, technically that's, that's, that's pretty impressive. Impressive.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That's very impressive.

Especially by nothing. While you're thinking about that. I want to say it is impressive, but also it's Star Trek impressive, which is even harder because you're putting in words that are above and beyond what are in human existence. It's all scientific, so you got to know about different races. And this.

[Wil Wheaton]

We called it, we called it technobabble. Yeah. Of course, early drafts of scripts would say line, line, line, line, line, and then in brackets it would say say in capital letters, T, E, C, H, Tech.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Wil Wheaton]

And they would go out to grad students at Caltech and ask them to write science sounding things that, that we could use.

I, I think that.

In my career, I'm really proud of my memoir. I'm really proud of. Still just a Geek for a couple of reasons. You know, I wrote Just a Geek in the early 2000s because I felt pressured to turn my blog into a book. Everyone was telling me that I had to do that, and I wasn't ready to do it. I was too young and inexperienced. I had nothing. I had a lot of things to talk about, but I didn't have anything to say and having the opportunity to revisit that and correct myself and hold myself accountable and talk about how I have changed and to write all about what happened to my sister and me on the curse and to write about and speak honestly and fearlessly about my experience as a survivor of abuse, neglect and exploitation. That I was able to do all of that.

At all was emotionally challenging and really, really hard at times. Times. But get it. Getting that all the way through and finishing it and doing the audiobook and then making the New York Times bestseller list and the Audible bestseller list and just meeting all these people who are just like, thank you for writing about your experiences with depression and addiction and exploitation and going no contact with your family. And like, you know, I mean, there's also fun and silly things in my book, but like, sure, the things that. That people tend to.

Highlight and identify. And just this weekend a woman said to me, like, you know, I just wanted to thank you. I am in the same club that you are in. And reading your. How you have gone through all of this stuff was validating and inspiring to me in my own journey. And as I said at the beginning of this, all we want as artists is for our work to matter and for it to affect somebody in a way that like, that answer, whatever that weird call is. You know, I don't think artists choose art. I think art chooses artists. Like, we, like, have to do it, you know, so, like, there is that compulsion to create art and when someone else, like, receives the results of that compulsion and it matters to them, to me, it closes a circle and it returns to me something that I need to put into the furnace to do it the next time. So I don't know that I have like a singular accomplishment that is as meaningful that certainly nothing that has the. The legacy.

Although I think you could make the case.

I would probably argue against it before I ultimately accepted it, that as part of Star Trek, I am one night of the original cast of Star Trek the Next Generation. But I am now an elder in the Star Trek world.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Wil Wheaton]

And I represent legacy Star Trek. And there have been, I think, five series after us, plus all of Star Trek's cultural achievements and influences.

I get to say I'm part of that.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That.

[Wil Wheaton]

That's pretty great. That's great. I get to say I get to meet people who are incredible science scientists, doctors, engineers. They've done amazing things with their lives. And they tell me that they chose their field because my character, Wesley Crusher, inspired them. And that is such an Incredible gift. You know, throughout my recovery, throughout my efforts to heal my trauma, one of the things I always do is make space for my younger self to enjoy and feel proud of what he is doing, what that work was, because it really does matter to people. And it, and, and I couldn't, I had no way of knowing at the time that it was going to have a life this many years later.

I don't know that I am proud of it as much as I am just so intensely grateful for it.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, you should be. You, you've. Dude, it's like you've been, you've been through, you know, the, the stuff that, that we've talked about today and the stuff that I, that, that I didn't know about, and then to find out, you know, the stuff that I did know about, and it's like for you to be at this place in your life and just genuinely be happy and to be able to help people and, and to look back at your career, just be proud of the you've done and even the what you just said there, it's like, like it's just perfect. And you know, and most people don't get that, you know, and they don't get that kind of like, awakening where it's just like, nah, dude. It's like, I, I, I, you know, there's people that have done far more than both of us that are, that are unhappy because they just, they can't just see, you know, that, that, that the, you know, the stuff that they've done or, or, or the, you know, the, the, they only see the stuff they didn't get. They don't see the stuff that they have. And, and that's like, really, for the.

[Wil Wheaton]

Longest time in my life, that's all I saw. I could only see the things that hurt. I could only see the things where I felt that I fell short. I could only see all of the places where, like, I didn't feel loved. And, and the thing is, like, in all of those times, it was never me. It was never because of something I did or didn't do. It was really bad luck. And, and I'm so grateful that through a combination of sobriety and therapy and just. My wife and I have made a really wonderful family. We're close, we love each other. We are the family that I always wanted to have, that always wanted to be part of that. All of that has created space for me to enjoy and feel, feel really happy about and occasionally feel proud of, but mostly just feel gratitude and look back at Times where I just feel like, man, little kid, I wish you knew how cool you are. I wish you knew how much cool you have to bring to the world. When you're ready, I'm gonna be here to help you do it.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, man. And. And I. To bring this back to television is like, I. I'm like wondering because I'm looking at also like, the stats of what this band did. They didn't sell a lot of records, you know. Yes. They're on all these like. Like best of lists and. And, you know, rolling stone saying 500 greatest albums, this and Marquee Moon. But it's like, did you know were. Was this band? You know, I don't know. I'm trying. I don't know if I can find it anywhere. But was this band? I mean, obviously when you start a band, it's like, yeah, you want to be rich and successful. I mean, I don't know what it's like in 77 in New York. I mean, I don't know if they're like, they. They're kind of like the too cool for school guys that are like, nah, man, we just want to make our art and do our. And just be cool and read our books and smoke our cigarettes and drink at these bars in the Lower east side side. But I think there is an ego thing that we all have. And I wonder if. I wonder if, you know, if Tom and. And the rest of the band can look back at their career as television. Because, yes, they're. They're talked about. This album is talked about as, you know, one of. Obviously it's. It's low on the list. We talked about all the influences, but it's like, I wonder if. I wonder if they were happy, if they were like. Because I know he went on to do stuff, but, like, yeah, so do I. I mean, he did. So he did solo things. I know he played with, you know, with Patti Smith. You know, he worked on Horses with her and. But it's just like, you. You just wonder. It's like, is it. Were they trying to be someone as big as the Stones? Are they trying to be. You know, because it's like they're not the Ramones, where it's like the Ramones, they made their money and maybe. I don't know how it's. I mean, it's the same with like, hip hop now, where it's like the guys in the 80s barely made any money, but now they're making all the money. And I don't. I think it's still kind of that way with some of the rock musicians, it's like, like they get their due. But it's like he, this band's not in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame. They're not, they didn't sell a shitload of records. I mean, even we talked about the Velvet Underground. It's like the Velvet Underground, you know, I don't think they made Blue Reed made most of his money through Velvet Underground. I think he made it all from doing his solo and working with Bowie. And, and so, so I don't know. I mean, I, I, I hope, hope before he died. I don't know who he is. I don't know enough about him, but I really hope before he died, you know, only a couple years ago that he was like, you know, knows how special this record is for so many people, you know.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah, I, some. You mentioned Lovecraft so much earlier. You know, he was, he, no, he did not make a ripple in his lifetime. Hit the, the significance of his work. Work did not land until after his death. Frida Kahlo did not have her work reach critical mass because she specifically did not want it to be commercialized. I get mad when I see her work on, like, handbags and I'm like, doing that, you know, but she like, specifically didn't want it to be that. And that is a great question.

I actually have a thought that is kind of relevant to that. That happened, that kind of happened in my life.

So I said, art chooses the artist. Art was always going to choose me. I don't know what art was going to choose me. Right. Like, probably music.

Definitely. A lot of writing, you know, has, has been, has been part of it.

But we.

We make our art.

And if we're lucky, it also gives us a comfortable lifestyle that allows us to keep making more art. The only time that I ever cared about making about anything at all was I want to make good art. I want to tell a good story. I want to do a memorable performance that nobody else can do. I want to do stuff that's respectable, that is, you know, I wanted to do prestige work. And the people who were in charge of my career at the time just wanted money and fame. The thing about money and fame is that it lasts for a half a second. It's cotton candy. The thing about art is that it endures and that not all art brings money and fame, but all art brings artistic satisfaction. And if you make enough of it, eventually something maybe does bring in that other stuff. But is the difference between being like the B52s who make their wonderful, weird art, and they're like, this is what we're making, and everybody loves it. And being like. Like, right Fred said, or right said Fred said.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Right said Fred.

[Wil Wheaton]

Where. Where you're like, I'm gonna do this one dance song. It's one like, like, single that was decanted in a lab that went through a bunch of, like, things to make this thing. Or, like, I'm gonna be Ace of Bass and I'm gonna make this pop song that everybody loves. You can be Taylor Swift and make pop music that's deeply meaningful and important and also incredibly successful. You can do pop music that's just bubblegum. It doesn't matter.

I think that it's kind of up to the creator to decide what's important to them. You know, if all they want is all. If all they want is a bunch of money at one time, okay, cool. That's never what I wanted. I wanted to do something that mattered, that lasted, that was bigger than me. And I'm really, really lucky that I've been in a few things that absolutely fit that bill. Sure.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, dude. I mean, we. I've said it a million times. It's like you. Not. Not only just one, but you've done multiple. And you've had different acts, and even this. I want to call it a final act whatsoever. But as you're getting into your 50s, I mean, it's. It's a. This is. This is, like we said, this is where you get to look back and be proud and be happy and raise your family and actually enjoy your life. And. And I listen, you know, I. The guy lived. You know, the band looked like it lived, you know, know, a long life. I mean, he died, you know, a couple years ago at 73. You know, it. It. It happened with. When we were doing the Big Star Records, which is, you know, Alex Chilton, you know, and. And the rest of the band, you know, it. It's gotta feel good to make something that, you know is great and critics love and, you know, money. I know. I don't. I don't think they were broke at all. Big Star. But it's like, like, you know, they all went on and. And had great lives and. And I. And I definitely. The way that, you know, the Replacements and so many of. And REM Are so influenced by a band like Big Star. You know, it's. It's. It's. It's something that, whether, you know, you're a. A, you know, the Beatles and have the money of Them a very respected band and able to live a comfortable life. You know, like you said, it's just as long as you're proud of the art, I think that's all that really does make a difference. I mean, there's, there's so many, like, you know, great directors, there's so many great writers and, and, you know, of, of whether it's, you know, fiction and, and, and just so much stuff that it's like, you know, you, you've seen it where they can make something great, yet they can't enjoy any of it.

It's, it really is, man. It's like, dude, it's, it's. I really would, I would love to have something in my life as, as, as valuable as Mary Moon. And, and I mean, for, for us to be talking about it today and then, and just to know the people that have been influenced by it, it's just, it's, it's incredible. And it's just something that, like, you know, you get one shot at life and to be able to, to. To make something that you're like, I have to make this. And. Oh, people seem to dig it. Oh, critics seem to dig it. Oh, that's great. I mean, it's, it's, it's. It's a hard thing to do, man. And, and you know, I'm, I'm just, I'm just so glad that I got this chance to finally dig into this record and, and now have it on the rotation because it's, it's something that I've kept seeing throughout the years and it's just, it's just, you know, it's, it's. It is culturally and musically significant, say the least.

[Wil Wheaton]

My wife says, you know, we're. We only get one life and it's unimaginably brief.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Very.

[Wil Wheaton]

We share the planet with a certain group of people for a particular amount of time.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Time.

[Wil Wheaton]

How lucky are we to have been on the planet as the time at. At the same time as this, as this art?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh my God. Oh, dude. There's like, how lucky are we that we, the Simpsons.

That you dig? Yeah.

[Wil Wheaton]

When I tell people I was at the Battle of Los Angeles, like I was at the Rage concert that inspired that album. I was at Lollapalooza in 91, 92, 94. Like, like I, you know, I talk about these things that I got to experience that for a 20 year old today is the equivalent of me hearing someone say, yeah, I was a Monterey Pop. Yeah, I was a Wood or whatever, you know, or that great there's that great documentary, like, about that. That. That. That legendary gig that that, like, you know, everybody says they were at that inspired them to, like, you know, I think it was at, like, the Factory that, like, everybody went to this thing, you know, and, like, out of that show comes, like, basically every post punk band in. In, you know, in. In England or. Or whatever. Like, to have been in those moments.

I, I. I am not a. A blind person. I have. I see the horrors every day in the world. And amongst the horrors, it's also really nice that there's stuff like this to distract from it and to remind us that good art is worth making. Good art is worth defending and protecting.

And.

I think that we have to, as a society, as a civilization, support and protect our artists, because the work that the artists do is just as important as the work the doctors and the scientists and the mathematicians do.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Completely. Completely. All right, let's get you out of here. Do we. Dude, please come back. This has been so awesome.

[Wil Wheaton]

I would. I would love to. Please bring me back for another record. I'd love to do this again.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, we've got. We do. We've got. How many more do we have, Jer? This was number 130. So we have. We have a. We have 130 more episodes, and they're like, we're getting into this.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Is it not. Is it two and a half?

[Wil Wheaton]

That's great. Great.

[Josh Adam Myers]

May 31, 2028. Yeah.

[Wil Wheaton]

That's awesome.

[Josh Adam Myers]

So, all right, so we ask everybody these questions. Favorite song on this record.

[Wil Wheaton]

Probably Friction.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Okay, we did. We should have talked about that more. God, we got so caught up with so much other stuff. Just let everybody know. Listen to the record if, you know.

[Wil Wheaton]

The thing about Friction is that it starts with that intense cascading guitar sound that just makes me feel like I'm Indiana Jones running away from the boulder. I love the way it propels me into that. Right. This is actually one of the rare albums where it is the music that speaks to me more so than the lyrics.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Sure. Well, this was. This is definitely, from what I'm reading, the critics often point to this. This as the opening, as the signature television sound. Like, this is kind of where. Where you get what television is. And they developed this. The much of the guitar vocabulary heard here during long rehearsals at the CBGB residencies. I mean, that place. The fact that it's a clothing store now is. Is blasphemy. Yeah, it does. It does.

[Wil Wheaton]

But.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But. But there is. You know, look, at least it's. It's Barbados. And not like, you know.

[Wil Wheaton]

Right.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's like he's at least kind of in the. Yeah. Yeah. It's not like Ann Taylor. You know what I mean? But, yes, I. I agree with you. I'd say Friction. I mean, because Marquis Moon obviously is the most important. I loved Torn Curtain as well. Prove it is great. But I. I would put. I would put Friction probably in my. In my top three. But I. I think if I'm gonna pick one, I think I'm gonna go. I think I'm gonna go prove it. I.

[Wil Wheaton]

Right.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Is this a no Skip record?

[Wil Wheaton]

Yes.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, I. I agree. I feel like every song kind of blends into the next in a way. It's not. It's not like a. It's not like a. You know, I'm trying to think of. It's not like a Mr. Show episode where everything kind of blends in, but it's. But it's definitely. I love the sequencing of this. I love the way they start, I love the way they end. It doesn't have a slow period. What were you about to say before I cut you off?

[Wil Wheaton]

Sorry. My friend John Bowie has a podcast called the Record Junkies that. I think you dig it. The idea is, hey, come in, and we love music. Bring an album that really matters to you. Don't tell us what it is, and then tell us why it matters to you. We'll listen to a little bit of it. Right. I've been listening to this podcast for a while, and I noticed I have been listening to playlists and shuffled algorithmic recommendations and playlists that I built myself, like mixtape tapes. But I haven't been listening to albums. I have not been putting on an album, listening to it start to finish. So starting about three months ago, I started doing that again, listening to entire albums. And it is rare that there is an album that is no skip for me. There's always something somewhere. Especially in this era when there's so much experimental stuff, you know, I'm like, sure. It doesn't. Kind of doesn't work. You know, it's like.

Suicides album that has Ghost Rider on it. You know, like, for the longest time, I would only hear that song, and I was like, this song is so dark and incredible. And I listened to that entire record, and I'd never done that. Listen to it all the way through, and I'm just like, holy. So this is definitely a no Skip record for me. I encourage people, if you have found yourself as I did, without meaning to ending up kind of like you're effectively only listening to the radio. Even if it's like, algorithmically sorted songs or whatever, find some records and actually listen. Even if they're streaming, listen to the album start to finish. Like, make the time to do that.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That's this. That's how this came. Dude. That's. You're talking about how I started doing this podcast. I was like, you get. Everybody gets set in their ways. We listen to the same. Over and over, you know, and we're. We're. Maybe we're trying to find new that's coming out, but you've got. Got so much great music, you know, like, dude, I mean, I'm not just saying eventually I think television would have made its way in there, but I don't know. Like, I saw Big Star for years. Never listen to him, REM. I. I knew a couple of their records from doing this podcast. I'm like, they're one of the best bands that's ever existed.

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And I mean, it's. It's just. You find it by. It's not the hits on the radio that are the best songs. It's like that the full album is what they intended. Like. Like, it's. It's like Marquis Moon is a great song. Right. But without See no Evil, Venus Friction before it does it hit the same. I think it hits stronger after hearing those first three songs and then getting into that. And that's what's great. Right.

[Wil Wheaton]

As much as I love Big Mouth Strikes Again off the Queen Is Dead by the Smiths. I don't like hearing it on the radio. It needs to come. It needs to come after Vicar and a Tutu.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Wil Wheaton]

And before. Some girls are bigger than others. Others. Otherwise, it's weird. Every now and then, one of my playlists will be like, you like Pink Floyd. Here's. Here's only Brain Damage from Dark side of the Moon.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I know. What are you doing? I know. It's like, you gotta do that.

[Wil Wheaton]

That's like. That's like playing one of the snippets from the. From the Abbey Road medley on the. You know, the Golden Slumbers medley. Like, what are you doing?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah. No, you're wrong.

[Wil Wheaton]

Just play.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Just play the whole second half. Do it right.

[Wil Wheaton]

Please.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Just play the whole second half of that record. That's all you gotta do. Play side two.

[Wil Wheaton]

We're gonna. Good.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And I agree with you, especially on the Pink Floyd, because that run is just. I mean, that's like one of my favorite runs in, like, music history of. Of getting from. From that to eclipse is just such a perfect way.

[Wil Wheaton]

All right.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Can you, to this record, can you to Marky Moon?

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah, sure.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Really?

[Wil Wheaton]

Listen, you can to any record if you believe in yourself, you can, but.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I don't know if this is structurally, I mean, listen, I bet you this came out and many of people, many hip New Yorkers, you know, like, did they, they, the hipsters of the world, we're going to call it, definitely probably put this on. I don't know if it would be a go to record for me to, to maybe, I mean, Marky Moon, the song is, it's like, you know, it's like they keep talking about the, the, the jagged guitars, the way he sings, the breakdowns, but it is, is it, it isn't like obtuse where it's like you can't, you know, I, I think, I think it is a song. I don't know if the entire record is though. Does that make sense?

[Wil Wheaton]

Yeah, you know, I'll just have to give it a try and get back to you. I'll just ask my wife if she's on board. Honey, I gotta do this. It's for work.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Honey, get the soda.

[Wil Wheaton]

I mean, listen, I mean, it's, it's, it's no, like, it's no maggot brain, right? And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's not, it's not Isaac Hayes, right? I mean, it's not even Holland Oats, but there's something to it, right? I mean, like, look, I, I, I think you can fuck to Nirvana, you know? I mean, you just gotta, like, your head's just got to be in the right place.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No, I know. I, I completely agree. I, I think I, I think you can, I don't know if this is, like I said, this is something I would put on, but I definitely.

And what would be your elevator pitch? Like, how do you sum up? How do you get someone that's never listened to television, mark you to get them to listen to it? How would you say it?

[Wil Wheaton]

I'm going to play the opening notes of this record and you're going to know.

By.

The 12th bar.

If you want to listen to it or not. I think it is a, it is a rare album that tells you immediately from the very beginning, this is what I am. This is what I am going to, to deliver to you. Are you into it or not? Like, it just comes up and it, it grabs you.

And I don't think that it requires a lot of selling right here, listen, give Me, give me.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Me.

[Wil Wheaton]

30 seconds of your time, and you tell me at the end of 30 seconds, you either push stop, or you keep going and just keep going until you want to stop. And I bet you by the time you're halfway through the second song, you're probably on board for the rest of this record.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I think if I got.

[Wil Wheaton]

If I got. If I got any pushback or resistance, maybe. Hey, you love post punk.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You love.

[Wil Wheaton]

Right? Right? I mean, you love. You love goth. You love. You love grunts.

I can show you how all of these bands that you love.

Are inspired and influenced and even contained within this. This record.

That probably works for. You know, it doesn't work on all the music nerds. You have to be a particular kind of music nerd for that to work. But, like, I would respond to that. I'm like, yeah, man, let's go.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I. I think that's how I started.

[Wil Wheaton]

Listening to Big Star, because I was just like, oh, wow. Big Star influenced all these bands. I like, cool. I'll go check them out. I'd heard the replacement song. You know, I didn't know who Alex Shelton was.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I. I love that. I love that you said that too. It's because, you know, they're. There's so much music that you just have no idea. Like, you know, you sometimes, like, you mentioned suicide, and you're like. And you're like, oh, yeah, I can hear the Nine Inch Nails, you know, from suicide. And I love Nine Inch Nails, so I'm so glad. And maybe I don't. Maybe I don't love suicide as much as I love Nine Inch Nails, but I think they're all the music that. That this went on to influence. It's like, not only can I love that, I can look back at this and. And still, like, think, oh, man, this is, like, just as current as 99 of that. I think this is a record that is so ahead of its time.

And just so musically important for most. I'd say. I'd say at least 70 to 80 of the bands that I love. And I. And I think that's. That's really cool, man. You know, and. And I'm. I'm really glad this record finally came up because I kept seeing it, and I'm just like, ah.

It'S probably not. It's probably gonna be all long jams and this, that. And then you're like, oh, no. It's like, you got one long song, and then all the rest are just perfect, perfect. And it's. I don't want to call It. I don't even call it post punk. It's like.

[Wil Wheaton]

It's. Well, no, it's pre punk.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's pretty.

[Wil Wheaton]

It's very much pre punk. Like, yeah, just. I mean, so, like, you know, my punk experience is. I'm from la, man. So it. It is. It's. My hardcore experience is Black Flag and Circle Jerks and. And Di and. Right. And then my other punk is X and the Minutemen and like. Like. Like, that's what I. That's all the stuff that I was crazy about listening to. And just that I went, you know, in this weird kind of backwards way through all of that. It came to me sort of out of order to now in my 50s, hear what very clearly started. All of. Cannot be overstated. And I hope that this isn't me, like, being, you know, Lenny and mice and men, petting the rabbit to death. No one had done anything like this. This was new. This was so risky. This was so bold. This is such a clear, inspired, unambiguous artistic vision that these people put together and believed in. And, you know, like, I have always said, I stole this from Joel Hodgson from Mystery Science Theater. When they write jokes, they don't say, who's going to get this? They. They say, now the right people will get this. And really great art is the same and the same thing with music.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Totally.

[Wil Wheaton]

They knew that the right people were going to get this. And there was an anr guy or woman who was like, you guys, this band, I'm telling you, right? It's like I just watched a documentary about Max's Kansas City. And the booker from Max's talks about how he'd go down to CBs to watch bands audition. And he's sitting there next to Hilly one day, and there's. There's these. This duo on the stage. And the guy. The guy that's booking for Max's is just crazy about this. Like, they're great, but they're not in tune. They're like. They're. They're kind of, you know, they're just. They're a mess, you know. But this guy from Max is like, oh, my God. With a little bit of work, Hilly doesn't see it, doesn't hear it at all. The guy's like, I'm going to bring you to Max's, but I want you to sit down with one of these guys who just tune your instruments, you know? That band is the Cramps.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, no way.

[Wil Wheaton]

So there's someone who has. Who goes, I think that I'm Going to take a chance on this and that person. Like, listen, we always give. We give lots of credit to the artists because they deserve it. We give scoring to the idiots who stand in the way and say no. Right. I don't know that. We often say, wow, I don't know who said yes to this. I don't know who was the one who was like, yeah, let's give them some money to record this record. But whoever that was, thank you.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, it's like you. You watch somebody like, like, what's the guy's name who does. I think you should leave. Tim Robinson. You're like, yeah, you know, you. You wouldn't look at him and be like, oh, this guy's a comedic genius. And everybody's gonna identify. Not just identify, but, like, just be. You know, be able to vibe with his comedy. And it's just to see, like, because it's so out there. And that's the thing is, like, the people that find it are the people that find it.

[Wil Wheaton]

It's a great example of the right people will get this. Most of it doesn't work for me. I feel like it just kind of. I get the. It keeps going long after I want to move on to the next joke. But when it works and when it hits, it's genius. Yeah. And, yeah, that is how we create new art forms. That is how we. We help disciplines, comedy, music, drama, how we help it all evolve and grow. Yeah. Yeah. And it's. You know, there's. There are albums where you're like, that's an influential album, but it's not necessarily that great to listen to. To. This is a great album that happens to also be incredibly influential.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It is, dude. It is. And I think. I feel like, you know, there's been moments in this podcast where it's like, I. I've. Like I said, where it's like, I finally. I found the record. I understand it. And it was like, right from the first listen of this, and it was just like, oh, man. Like, this just got me. And this was perfect, dude. What. What a perfect way to celebrate this record, dude. Thank you so much for coming on.

[Wil Wheaton]

Please, it's such a pleasure.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Please promote away. I mean, you know, tell us everything. We'll also do it at the beginning and the end of the podcast as well. But please promote away.

[Wil Wheaton]

Anyone who's interested in seeing our standby me screenings and. And. And all of that, go to standbymelive.com that's where all of the dates and ticket links are located. If you would like to know what's going on with me in my life. My blog has been on the Internet since the year 2000 and it [e-mail] I would love it if you would listen to my podcast called It's Story Time with Wil Wheaton. New episodes drop every Wednesday wherever you get your podcasts. And it is a weekly audiobook podcast. I take short fiction from writers who are beloved in the genre world who might be just breaking out and finding their audience. And one of my dreams is that I'm going to have help you find your next favorite author who you don't even know exists right now. And I'm and. And just help elevate people's careers so that they can make more great art. And finally I am on. I'm on on Instagram as it's Will Wheaton and Blue sky. I'm Will Wheaton.net. that's a lot of things to remember.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No, we'll do it at the beginning too. Don't worry. We'll give you. We'll give you heavy promo at the beginning too.

[Wil Wheaton]

But. But yeah, that's, that's if you only if you're only remember one thing. Wil Wheaton.net is the central hub for everything that exists in my life.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Well, wheaton.net guys, listen to the podcast go see Stand Up Step. Stand up live. Stand By Me live and please come back on. This was so great. Thank you buddy.

[Wil Wheaton]

Thanks buddy. It was a real pleasure and a real privilege. I would love to come back. Please ask me again.

[Josh Adam Myers]

We got you. What I tell you. What did I tell you? The one and only Wilson Wheaton. Follow him on Instagram at its Will Wheaton. Go to Wil Wheaton.net listen to his podcast Story Time with Wil Wheaton and go see Stand By Me live. Now we just listened to Mark he Moon from 1977 by television for new music pick this week brought to you in part by Distro Kid. It's Islands of Men by geese. And you can find links to the music on our website the500podcast.com. With that being said, next week, Talking Heads remain in light at 1:29. It's a goodie. Do your homework. Bye bye. You look green.

Like you mean.

[Wil Wheaton]

Ditch.

[Josh Adam Myers]

The islands of man.

Thought you'd find.

What it means.

Peace of mind.

You can't keep.

Womankind.

In your dreams.

You can't keep.

Running away.

From woman. What is real and what is fake.

You can.

Run away.

From what is real.

Sam.

You look. We.

Have seen Islands of Men.

[Wil Wheaton]

Sinking.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Low.

As you speak I'm not surprised.

Will you stop stop running away from what is real and what is fair?

Will you stop.

Running away from what is real and what is.

[Wil Wheaton]

Will you stop.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Running away? Running away from what is real? Will you stop.

Running away?

Will you stop.

Running.

Will you stop.

Running away?

You all the time.

The 500 keeping it flee.

[Wil Wheaton]

For the fleece nation.

[Josh Adam Myers]

On the 500.

The 500.

Limu Emu and Doug Here we have.

[Wil Wheaton]

The Limu Emu in its natural habitat helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Fascinating.

[Wil Wheaton]

It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug. Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Cut the camera. They see us.

[Wil Wheaton]

Only pay for what you you need@liberty.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Mutual.Com Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Very.

[Wil Wheaton]

Unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates excludes Massachusetts. Hey, this is Sarah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Look, I'm standing out front of a.m. p.m. Right now and well, you're sweet and all, but I found something more fulfilling. Even kind of cheesy. But I like it.

[Wil Wheaton]

Sure, you met some of my dietary.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Needs, but they've just got it all. So farewell. Oatmeal the long use tray soggy Break up with bland breakfast and taste AMPM's bacon, egg and cheese biscuit made with cage free eggs, smoked bacon and melty cheese on a buttery biscuit. AMPM too much good stuff.

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