Podcast Summary: The 500 with Josh Adam Meyers

Episode 135 – Pavement, Slanted & Enchanted (feat. Melissa Auf der Maur)

Release Date: November 5, 2025
Guest: Melissa Auf der Maur (Hole, Smashing Pumpkins)

Episode Overview

This episode of The 500 with Josh Adam Meyers dives into Pavement’s seminal 1992 indie-rock debut, Slanted & Enchanted, as the show counts down Rolling Stone’s 500 Greatest Albums of All Time. Josh welcomes iconic bassist Melissa Auf der Maur, known for her work in Hole and Smashing Pumpkins, for a richly personal and reflective conversation. Melissa revisits her life in the 90s alternative scene, discusses the writing of her upcoming memoir Even the Good Girls Will Cry, and unpacks Pavement’s enduring impact on indie rock and the cultural landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Gen X, Technology, and the Magic of the 90s

• The episode kicks off with existential musings about the digital age's effects on art, connection, and creativity.
• Melissa expresses concern that digital communication is "rewiring the way humans receive the beauty and the light," potentially leading to a "loss of connection to our soul." (09:01)

  "They're literally sucking it out." (09:01, Melissa)

• The conversation pivots from critique of “tech creeps” to validation for podcasts and in-person exchanges that preserve authentic intimacy and joy. (09:04)

2. Melissa’s Memoir and Motherhood

• Melissa's memoir Even the Good Girls Will Cry is announced, charting her decade in the heart of 90s alt-rock.

  “Imagine therapy, psychedelics times 10,000—writing your origin story in memoir...one of the most healing and labor intensive, emotional, intellectual things I’ve ever done.” (09:28, Melissa)

• She discusses becoming a mother, relocating to Hudson, NY, and the tension between nomadic rock life and home stability. (10:34)
• Basilica Hudson, the arts center she co-founded, is described as her gift back to “counterculture, emerging artists and weirdos.” (14:03–15:00)

3. 90s DIY Ethos, Corporate Pressures, and Artist Integrity

• Melissa and Josh agree that genuine, soul-powered counterculture of the 90s is worth preserving, as Gen Xers witnessed both the magic and the commodification of their scene.

  “We were mined, we were treat[ed]...the souls of creative freaks were turned into like Coca Cola cans.” (15:41, Melissa)

• Reflecting on major-label contracts and digital “corruption,” Melissa underscores her lifelong commitment to artistic independence. (16:31)

4. Origin Stories: Montreal Scene & Smashing Pumpkins

• A vivid retelling of Montreal’s vibrant music scene—Fufon Électrique, Metropolis, and the city’s international influences.
• Melissa recounts seeing Smashing Pumpkins for $1 in 1991, describing a beer bottle incident that led her to become pen pals with Billy Corgan, eventually opening for the Pumpkins, and later joining Hole through Corgan’s recommendation. (23:20–29:14)

  “I will follow you to the end of time. So I want to apologize as a good politician. Politician’s daughter, polite Canadian.” (29:10, Melissa)

5. Joining Hole: Grief, Healing, and “Being Called to Duty”

• Melissa’s introduction to Hole comes in the wake of dual tragedies—Kurt Cobain’s and former bassist Kristen Pfaff’s deaths.
• She frames her role as supporting "an innovative, pioneering voice of a woman of my generation that was ten lightyears ahead of everybody," acknowledging both the band’s turbulence and its cultural significance. (33:00)

6. Lollapalooza, Pavement, and 90s Festival Culture

• Vivid reminiscences of 1995’s Lollapalooza, where Hole and Sonic Youth co-headlined with Pavement, capturing the era’s creative comradery and genre eclecticism. (33:00–36:15)
• Melissa links Pavement’s sound to the “air we breathe” of the 90s and classifies their aesthetic as “committed to being uncommitted to anything.” (35:14)

7. Pavement’s Place in Indie Rock & the Anti-Success Attitude

• Pavement is lauded for their Matador Records allegiance and refusal to pursue radio-stardom or major-label deals, reflective of a wider generational repulsion to 80s corporate culture. (41:22–43:17)

  “It was a generation of [integrity]. There was a sweet spot there. I long for it to come back. And Pavement...held that down.” (45:41, Melissa)

• Comparison with contemporaries (Sonic Youth, The Replacements, Sebadoh, Polvo) highlights the virtue and the limits of the DIY ethos.

8. Musicality, Lyrics, and Pavement’s “World”

• The pair delve into Slanted & Enchanted track-by-track, noting its opening “hit after hit” energy, spacious 60s pop hooks, and “laissez-faire” vibe.
• Emphasis is placed on Stephen Malkmus’s poetic, brainy, and “effortless” lyricism:

  “He rolled off the couch and now he's, like, spewing perfect bohemian poetry.” (47:42, Melissa)

• Melissa spotlights “Fame Throwa” as capturing the anxieties and ironies of artistic “sell-out,” reading its lyrics like a beat poem and framing it as industry critique. (107:53–109:31)

9. Band Dynamics, Gender, and Role-Playing in Hole

• On her dynamic with Courtney Love, Melissa asserts the importance of her “pillar” role, supporting Courtney artistically and emotionally:

  “I instantly had a role to play...and I also, you know, I never kissed her ass. I never lied to her. I never pretended shit was cool when it wasn’t.” (68:25, Melissa)

10. Artistry Beyond Bass: Photography, Solo Work, and the Future

• Discusses her upcoming photo book and the irreplaceable analog magic of photography in the pre-digital era. (52:48, 104:07)
• Details her approach to solo records—self-produced, self-funded, collaborative, and deeply committed to pursuing “what is burning inside of me.” (99:02–101:55)
• Expresses excitement for a third-act comeback as an artist, including a forthcoming covers EP and a return to playing bass after years of motherhood. (104:07–106:02)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the generational shift and digital alienation:

  “We are losing a connection to our soul. Just like we all know, they are mining for our soul and our taste and our love and our joy.” (09:02, Melissa)

• On artist resistance and integrity:

  “Autonomy is...sovereignty of soul and self is very important. And here we are all entangled with these creepy things.” (16:32, Melissa)

• On Pavement’s greatness and anti-commercial cool:

  “They make nerd cool. And that's...what Pavement did. And they did." (92:48, Melissa)

• On the communal ethos of the 90s music scene:

  "Nobody wanted to be raised. Everybody was staying down because they wanted to keep it real and intimate.” (84:33, Melissa)

• On coming full circle:

  “My memoir, Even the Good Girls Will Cry, a 90s rock memoir, is coming out on my birthday, March 17, 2026. Announcing it here now.” (120:34, Melissa)

Track-by-Track Highlights (and Key Timestamps)

• “Summer Babe” (opening track):
  Sets the tone as a perfect introduction to Pavement’s world—“it makes me happy.” (82:10, 116:15)
• “Trigger Cut/Wounded Kite” (second track):
  “This is pure pop...really what made me realize how talented he is as a rock writer.” (88:49–89:21)
• “In the Mouth of a Desert”:
  Praised for its melody and “lackadaisical” lyrics—"I've been crowned the king of it." (93:02–93:37)
• “Conduit for Sale!” & “Fame Throwa”:
  Melissa highlights “Fame Throwa” as a poetry piece that satirizes fame and industry corruption. (107:53–109:31)

The 90s, Gen X, and Looking Forward

Melissa and Josh reflect repeatedly on generational legacy, the magic and mayhem of the 90s, and their roles as “witnesses” with a responsibility to “bring the magic back.” As Melissa prepares to publish her story (and potentially reunite with Hole), she hopes to inspire a revaluation of authenticity, artistry, and communal connection in music and life.

“I’m going to spread the love of pro human, pro analog, pro art, pro past as a futurist, where I believe we can have all that now...It’s a love letter to music, most importantly.” (121:04, Melissa)

Important Timestamps

• 06:10–07:41: Reflections on why counting down the 500 albums matters; life’s pain and the relief of art.
• 09:28–10:25: On writing her memoir and the healing power of storytelling.
• 23:20–29:14: The Smashing Pumpkins beer bottle story—a turning point in Melissa’s rock journey.
• 31:40–33:00: Joining Hole, Lollapalooza, and sharing bills with Pavement.
• 36:15–40:15: The energy and culture of 1995 Lollapalooza; Pavement’s vibe.
• 45:41: “We all had to be anti success or else you were part of the evil system that was going to destroy the world.”
• 52:48–54:18: Melissa’s role as tour photographer and the forthcoming photo book.
• 82:10–89:21: Album breakdown—track-by-track insights and personal responses.
• 107:53–109:31: Recitation and analysis of “Fame Throwa.”
• 116:00–120:34: Final questions: favorite and least favorite tracks, the record’s essence, and sex appeal (or lack thereof).

Final Thoughts & Recommendations

• For Listeners: This episode is a must for fans of 90s alternative/indie, Gen X nostalgia, and anyone interested in creative integrity in a corporate world.
• For Musicians & Creatives: Melissa’s blend of humility, candor, and hard-won wisdom is deeply inspirational—her story illustrates the power of staying true to your own evolving muse.

For More

• Follow Melissa Auf der Maur: @xmadmx
• Look for her memoir: Even the Good Girls Will Cry (March 17, 2026)
• Next week’s episode: Notorious B.I.G. – Ready to Die

The 500 with Josh Adam Meyers: Still counting down, still keeping it “fleecey.”