All Over The Map: In Purple Georgia, The Election Math Is Not So Simple

Summary

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CNN Presents – All Over The Map: In Purple Georgia, The Election Math Is Not So Simple

Date: October 14, 2024
Host: John King (with Allie Malloy)
Summary by an Expert Podcast Summarizer

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Episode Overview

This episode explores how the changing electoral landscape in Georgia—now a pivotal battleground state—makes the 2024 presidential race uniquely complicated. With Vice President Kamala Harris taking Joe Biden's spot on the Democratic ticket after a tumultuous campaign shakeup, host John King investigates how different communities and key demographics are reacting. Through in-depth conversations with two everyday Georgians, the episode illuminates the blend of hope, uncertainty, and skepticism that’s defining this election cycle in a newly "purple" Georgia.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The New Georgia Battleground

• Changing Dynamics: Georgia, for decades a Republican stronghold, became a surprise win for Democrats in 2020. The 2024 race is close and unpredictable, with Harris bringing new energy and Trump seeking a return to “red state” status.

  • “For Harris, there’s just no question that women of color are a giant piece of her Georgia map. But to assume their thinking and voting is a bloc? Well, that would be a big mistake.” (John King, 01:48)

• Theme: The episode investigates whether enthusiasm, representation, and demographic shifts will be enough for Democrats, or if Trump’s appeal to nostalgia and business interests will swing the electorate.

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2. In-Depth Voter Portraits

Christine Wynne: From Disconnection to Enthusiasm

Small business owner, Atlanta Suburbs; AAPI community member

• 2020 vs. 2024: Christine did not vote in 2020, largely due to burnout and feeling disconnected from both Trump and Biden. Now, Harris’s candidacy excites her—for the first time, she feels a candidate truly represents her.

  • “It’s honestly very refreshing to see a presidential candidate where, if they’re up there, I wouldn’t be ashamed to say, oh, they represent me and they represent my country and my community.” (Christine Wynne, 03:02)
  • “Knowing the background that she came from, knowing the culture that she has to bring, as well as her values and beliefs, I’m proud to say that there is somebody who is able to, like, voice the things that we as a people have been shouting for, like, the past four years.” (03:22)

• Key Issues:

  • Small business support, health care, reproductive rights, and climate change.
  • She wishes for more climate debate discussion: “…having somebody who actually cares about climate change is really refreshing, too. I wish that that was talked about a little bit more in the debate…” (03:41)

• Community Engagement:

  • Increased activism in the AAPI community: “…a lot of my AAPI community have come together to help increase awareness for voting, which is really refreshing…” (Christine Wynne, 04:26)

• Business Concerns: Inflation and business taxes are common topics; while Trump is often credited as “better for business,” Christine prioritizes ethics: “…at the end of the day, it’s what you value and what your beliefs are in terms of your ethics, in terms of human rights that matter the most.” (Christine Wynne, 05:05)

• Family Political Debates: Christine’s family, mostly entrepreneurs, openly discusses politics but keeps it civil and loving—contrasting with the divisiveness in some other families (07:01).

• Personal Commitment: For the first time, Christine is voting early and is actively encouraging her community to participate.

Notable Quotes:

• “We’re built on a nation of immigrants. My parents were immigrants. So we have to remember that the president should be somebody who… our kids look up to. And I don’t think… choosing somebody who, you know, incriminates people like my parents would be good.” (Christine Wynne, 08:06)
• “I will make sure to do my best to get my whole community to the polls with the resources that we have...” (Christine Wynne, 08:42)

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Shantae Willis: The Torn Voter

Entrepreneur, gig worker, Powder Springs (Atlanta suburbs)

• Political Background: Lifelong Democrat, first time seriously considering voting Republican due to disillusionment with Biden’s performance (particularly on economic issues and foreign aid).

  • “I wasn’t happy with the job that President Biden was doing.” (Shantae Willis, 11:29)

• Key Issues:

  • Frustration over gas prices, economy, and perceptions of government spending priorities.
  • Harris’s candidacy does not automatically win her support as a woman of color: “I’m not gonna vote for her because she’s a woman. I’m not gonna vote for her because she’s black. I don’t know if I’m gonna vote for her at all.” (12:17)

• Candidate Skepticism:

  • Questions both Harris’s qualifications and Trump’s integrity, voicing frustration over lack of appealing choices and running mates she’s unfamiliar with.
  • Ponders potential support for Trump: "...today it might be Trump. I don’t have to like the man personally to stand behind some of his things, what he believes in." (Shantae Willis, 16:10)

• Abortion Rights: Reversal of Roe v. Wade is alienating, yet economic issues keep her from fully committing to Harris.

  • “As a woman, I don’t like it for my doctor to be under threat... You don’t have the potty parts to talk about what goes on down there. I can’t. Him reversing Roe vs Wade... just what does it say? Grind my gears.” (Shantae Willis, 14:04)

• Civic Duty: Despite deep frustration, she insists on voting, citing history and personal responsibility:

  • “I’m going to vote because that’s my civic American duty. Too many people fought for me to vote, period.” (Shantae Willis, 15:39)
  • On intergenerational differences: “My mother… says she don’t care what she does. Let’s just get her in there. And I simply don’t feel the same.” (19:32)

• Family & Social Dynamics: Even with political disagreements, family unity is preserved. Strong feelings about privacy and not publicizing her voting decision due to potential social/professional backlash (19:32).

Notable Quotes:

• “Has it ever been this hard to make a decision? No, no, no. Not at all.” (Shantae Willis, 20:35)
• “Take it very seriously because whatever we decide… will be stuck with things that they enact or sign into law affect the next coming generation. Got to take it seriously.” (Shantae Willis, 21:24)

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3. Analysis & Context from John King & Allie Malloy

• Georgia’s Central Role: After Biden’s shaky debate performance, Democrats panicked about Georgia slipping away. Swapping in Harris reinvigorated the base, especially among African American and younger voters who connect with her personally and on policy.

  • “Then Harris comes in and what happens? Bam like that. An energized Democratic base... All of a sudden you had a woman of color, the daughter of immigrants... who can see their story in the vice president.” (John King, 22:08)

• Turnout, Turnout, Turnout: The race will hinge on which side can muster more enthusiasm and get their coalition to the polls.

  • “Elections are decided by turnout... Not in a what’s the number who turns out? Especially in a state like Georgia... enthusiasm can get you more than that one person’s vote. That can matter in a close race, that can matter.” (John King, 23:56-25:11)

• Demographic Shifts: Georgia’s Asian American and Pacific Islander (AAPI) community is a fast-rising political force (almost 5% of the population) and could swing a tightly contested race.

  • “It’s a complicated, wonderful, diverse mix of people, but it is a growing political force in the state of Georgia and elsewhere.” (John King, 24:24)

• Education as a Predictor: The clearest current dividing line in American politics is education level, more than race or income. Suburbs, as they become more educated and diverse, trend Democratic.

  • “Now, the clearest dividing line in the United States of America is your education level.” (John King, 25:53)

• Unhappy vs. Undecided: Many voters, like Shantae, are less undecided than “unhappy”—disillusioned with both parties and candidates, breaking with traditional party loyalty as generations pass.

  • “I even I call them more unhappy voters than undecided voters... She sees things she likes in both of these candidates. She sees things that she profoundly dislikes in both of these candidates.” (John King, 27:35)

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

Christine Wynne

• “Just to let people know that we deserve something better, that we deserve more than, you know, the two candidates that were there before who didn’t understand us.” (07:37)
• “I feel like a lot of my AAPI community have come together to help increase awareness for voting…” (04:26)

Shantae Willis

• “I’m not gonna vote for her because she’s a woman. I’m not gonna vote for her because she’s black. I don’t know if I’m gonna vote for her at all.” (12:17)
• “I hope I don’t decide the day I choose to vote… Today it might be Trump. I don’t have to like the man personally to stand behind some of his things, what he believes in.” (16:10)
• “You don’t have the potty parts to talk about what goes on down there. I can’t. Him reversing Roe vs Wade… just what does it say? Grind my gears.” (14:04)
• “Take it very seriously because whatever we decide… will be stuck with things that they enact or sign into law affect the next coming generation. Got to take it seriously.” (21:24)

John King

• “For Harris, there’s just no question that women of color are a giant piece of her Georgia map. But to assume their thinking and voting is a bloc? Well, that would be a big mistake.” (01:48)
• “Elections are decided by turnout... To me, it depends on turnout. Not in a what's the number who turns out?... enthusiasm can get you more than that one person's vote." (23:56)
• “The clearest dividing line in the United States of America is your education level.” (25:53)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:48: John King frames Georgia’s new political complexity.
• 03:02–04:41: Christine Wynne’s detailed reasons for supporting Harris and what’s changed in her community.
• 05:05: Christine discusses the tension between business arguments for Trump and her own values.
• 06:44: Christine commits to voting early with enthusiasm.
• 12:17: Shantae Willis on not feeling compelled to vote for Harris despite shared identity.
• 14:04: Shantae on women’s health, abortion rights, and candidate frustration.
• 15:39: Shantae's sense of civic duty, regardless of being “unhappy” with choices.
• 16:10: On perhaps voting for Trump, despite misgivings.
• 22:06–25:11: John King’s strategic and demographic analysis of Georgia in 2024.
• 25:53–27:35: Discussion of education, demographic shifts, and the “unhappy” voter class.

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Conclusion

Through candid interviews and incisive analysis, the episode captures a Georgia in flux—where personal connection, shifting demographics, and generational identity converge. Harris’s ascent reshapes enthusiasm among key groups (women of color, AAPI, young voters), but even energizing a base isn’t enough when educated, frustrated, and “unhappy” voters weigh competing priorities and personal histories. The stakes are monumental—and the math, as the episode makes clear, is anything but simple.

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Transcript

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[John King]

Georgia sure looks different today than it did the last time we were there. Back then, we had two candidates. The old race, you might say President Joe Biden against former President Donald Trump. Both known quantities, both with a ton of baggage. But since the shakeup on the Democratic side, Georgia's race has taken on a brand new shape for the vice president, Kamala Harris. Her path to victory is clear, but it won't be easy In a race this close, XI has to do everything possible to turn out essentially the coalition that just barely tipped this newly purple state to Joe Biden back in 2020. That means first firing up the Democratic base. Then it means wandering out to the suburbs and convincing the unconvinced driving turnout as high as possible. Donald Trump, Georgia's more simple. He hopes Georgians look back at 2020 and say, never mind, that was a mistake. We're going back to being a red state. For Harris, there's just no question that women of color are a giant piece of her Georgia map. But to assume their thinking and voting is a bloc? Well, that would be a big mistake. I'm John King and this is all over the map. If you've been with us from the beginning, you'll remember Christine Wynne. She owns a boba tea shop in the Atlanta suburbs, a a business she launched post Covid after an exhausting few years working as a nurse. She's passionate about the business and equally passionate about the community that surrounds it. But when we talked to her last time, she was more than torn about the election. She actually didn't vote in 2020. Part of that was she was burnt out from COVID and working far from home around election time. But a big part of it also was she just felt zero connection to the candidates Donald Trump and Joe Biden. She was determined when we first met to vote this time around, but she simply hated that it looked like then we were going to have a rematch. Her choices had not changed Trump's rhetoric Turns her off. And, yes, she's more aligned with Biden policies on things like the climate on reproductive rights, but she just felt no connection to him. She felt he was too old for the job.

[Interviewer]

So she was going to vote when.

[John King]

We first met, but she was most unexcited about it. Now, though, things are very different.

[Interviewer]

It is good to see you again. A lot has changed since we were here last.

[Christine Wynne]

A good amount.

[Interviewer]

You were talking about how important it was for you to vote this time, but you weren't happy with your choices.

[Christine Wynne]

No, not really.

[Interviewer]

Where are you now?

[Christine Wynne]

It's honestly very refreshing to see a presidential candidate where, if they're up there, I wouldn't be ashamed to say, oh, they represent me and they represent my country and my community.

[Interviewer]

I assume you mean the vice president there. How does she represent you? What do you see in her where you say, ah, that's me, that's a.

[John King]

Little bit of me.

[Christine Wynne]

Knowing the background that she came from, knowing the culture that she has to bring, as well as her values and beliefs, I'm proud to say that there is somebody who is able to, like, voice the things that we as a people have been shouting for, like, the past four years.

[Interviewer]

What are those things?

[Christine Wynne]

I feel like, for me, small business is a big one because I am a small business owner. Access to health care. As a woman, having a woman presidential candidate who can understand the struggles that we go through in that field, as well as our reproductive rights. Also having somebody who actually cares about climate change is really refreshing, too. I wish that that was talked about a little bit more in the debate, since it's something that the future generation cares so much.

[John King]

And help me with the conversation here.

[Interviewer]

You mentioned this is a democratic area. Is there more energy, more excitement, more activism? What are you seeing now compared to when it was still Biden, especially after.

[John King]

The Trump Biden debate?

[Christine Wynne]

I feel like a lot of my AAPI community have come together to help increase awareness for voting, which is really refreshing, especially having a candidate, Kamala, obviously.

[Interviewer]

The AAPI community, she has good relations there, obviously part of her lineage. But there's also a lot of entrepreneurs there, business people like yourself, who are looking at, you know, what's the taxation.

[John King]

Environment going to be like?

[Interviewer]

What's the regulation environment going to be like? Does that come up at all? Do you hear, I don't know if pushback's the right word, but any of your peers saying, oh, it's great, her story's great, you know, this is. It's awesome, but Trump's better for Business, does that come up at all?

[Christine Wynne]

That comes up very often. Even in my family of entrepreneurs, it comes up every now and then. Right. That Trump just knows business better, that he's more savvy with the tax laws and are able to bring money back into the economy. But I think at the end of the day, it's what you value and what your beliefs are in terms of your ethics, in terms of human rights that matter the most.

[Interviewer]

One of the things when we travel across the country and a business like this would be impacted is are people reluctant to spend? Is inflation, you know, causing them to cut back on doing something, make your coffee or your tea at home, as opposed to going out for a little bit of experience? Where are you in that?

[John King]

What are you seeing?

[Christine Wynne]

We're not seeing a huge impact to where it's causing a lot of stress on our business, so we're lucky there. But it definitely has hurt our business in the past couple of months, seeing the prices go up for our supplies and us not being able to adjust the prices accordingly.

[Shantae Willis]

So.

[Christine Wynne]

So that's been a little rough. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And do you think that impacts the environment that people are feeling? Stress from inflation could impact her chances?

[Christine Wynne]

Yeah, I think that that could highly impact her chances because she has been part of the administration in the past four years and inflation has only gotten higher. But at the same time, I think that, like, what we have as people to offer, we can push through this and we can make it so that we're supporting more local businesses as opposed to, you know, letting inflation get to us.

[Interviewer]

Given the 2020 experience, how are you feeling personally now that you're just weeks away? Are you going to wait till election day and vote? You're going to vote early. How are you going to do it?

[Christine Wynne]

I'll be voting early this year. Yeah. So I'm very excited to say that, and I'll be very excited to go to the polls.

[Interviewer]

And you mentioned in your family of entrepreneurs, there's some debate, maybe disagreement. How do you handle that? Is it a pleasant debate? Does it get tense? Is it just like, let's air it out and have fun?

[Christine Wynne]

Yeah. So it used to be a little bit more intense, but we've. We're just pretty accepting of each other. So we don't really. Even whenever somebody voices their thoughts, we're pretty understanding of each other. I think that's very interesting compared to other families, because I think a lot of other families let politics get between them, whereas our family, it's like, it's just talk for us, kind of thing and we still love each other at the end of the day.

[Interviewer]

That's good. I see a little bit of Harris literature over there.

[Shantae Willis]

Oh, yes.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So you made a decision to do that. Why?

[Christine Wynne]

Just to let people know that we deserve something better, that we deserve more than, you know, the two candidates that were there before who didn't understand us.

[Interviewer]

And if someone asked you why Harris not Trump, your answer would be, because.

[Christine Wynne]

She resonates with my values and beliefs. Because she's going to make changes that matter.

[Interviewer]

And what about him?

[Christine Wynne]

We're built on a nation of immigrants. My parents were immigrants. So we have to remember that the president should be somebody who, you know, my niece and nephew look up to, who our kids look up to. And I don't think that choosing somebody who, you know, incriminates people like my parents would be good.

[Interviewer]

Let me end with this. Just based on your conversations in the neighborhood, I know this is a blue leaning, Democratic leaning area. This is a very competitive state.

[John King]

It was a huge shock when Biden.

[Interviewer]

Won it in 2020. What's your sense of where are we as we go into the final weeks?

[Christine Wynne]

My fingers are crossed and I will make sure to do my best to get my whole community to the polls with the resources that we have and make sure that, you know, we do our part and we go out to the polls, too.

[Interviewer]

Great. Thank you.

[Christine Wynne]

Thank you for coming by again.

[Interviewer]

Happy to be here.

[John King]

When we come back, another Georgian who's determined to vote but is a lot less sure about how.

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[Shantae Willis]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

All right, Hollywood.

[Allie Malloy]

Three, two, one.

[John King]

Nice.

[Shantae Willis]

That was solid.

[Interviewer]

That was solid. Nikki. That was solid. I'll give you that one.

[John King]

Shantae Willis lives on the edge of the Atlanta suburbs, a little town called Powder Springs.

[Interviewer]

And you just moved in?

[Shantae Willis]

Yes, August 5th. Would not recommend doing it in the heat. It just was not.

[Interviewer]

I used to work as a mover. Summer moves are a beast.

[John King]

They're a beast.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[John King]

She's an entrepreneur and gig worker. Lives with her husband and her son who has physical and learning challenges.

[Shantae Willis]

I like to think I'm a well rounded person. I volunteer in my community. I think I'm kind of, I like to say, middle of the road. America.

[Interviewer]

Tell me a little bit about your politics. Doesn't have to be candidates right now, but just about what makes you tick. What issues matter most to you?

[Shantae Willis]

My politics. I think the first time I started paying attention to politics was when Dukakis was running. I think I was like 12, couldn't vote, but, you know, I was interested and wanted to do it. And so I think I've been a Democrat my entire adult life. This has actually been the first year where I was considering voting Republican.

[Interviewer]

Why?

[Shantae Willis]

I wasn't happy with the job that President Biden was doing.

[Interviewer]

Specific issues or his age or combination of things.

[Shantae Willis]

His age didn't matter so much until the first debate this year. Like, it really didn't matter to me. Lots of people have it upstairs, as they say, way until they're, you know, over 100. For some people, just depends on how you live. But things in particular like gas prices and giving money to other places, when people right here in America need that money is like, it's bothering me and there's nothing I can do about it. But that's my president.

[Interviewer]

So now there's a switch and it's Harris instead of Biden. Has that made a difference?

[Shantae Willis]

Oh, my God. So Harris, just because she's the nominee, I can't. I'm not gonna vote for her because she's a woman. I'm not gonna vote for her because she's black. I don't know if I'm gonna vote for her at all.

[Interviewer]

What's your biggest question?

[Shantae Willis]

Why does she want it? And it's not a point of does she deserve it? Do I wanna make her make history? Like a lot of people say, is she the best person for the job? And I'm not convinced yet.

[Interviewer]

So you've had the convention?

[John King]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

And you had the one Debate with Trump. When you look at him, are there pluses and minuses? How do you look at that?

[Shantae Willis]

Yes. Trump's done the job before. Some people think he did a good job, some people think he did a bad job.

[Interviewer]

What do you think?

[Shantae Willis]

I think that people are handed what they're handed when they get it, and the economy and all the things that we face, you get to get in and either you can fix it or you can't. If someone proposes a bill or legislature and they want something to go through that maybe majority of Americans want, but the other side doesn't allow it, is that person a failed president because they didn't get it through, or the other powers that be didn't allow it, how do you make that say this is their legacy or what they actually accomplished? If they campaigned on it and they tried to get it through, but other people didn't let it, it's not their fault, and somehow it is.

[Interviewer]

So when you look at Trump specifically, are there an issue, Is there an issue or two where you say, I'm with him on that or he sounds good on that. Maybe you're not convinced yet, but he sounds good on that.

[Shantae Willis]

Where he wants to drill for oil to make the prices go down. I don't have to have an electric car. Would I like my crypto portfolio to be better? Sure. Who was invested wouldn't want that? Trump seems to be more for business people. What if everybody doesn't have a business? What do you do then? And personally as a woman, I don't like it for my doctor to be under threat. Say I wanted an abortion. You don't have the potty parts to talk about what goes on down there. I can't. Him reversing Roe vs Wade. Just what does it say? Grind my gears. Oh, and his favorite color is black. Boy, please. I know.

[Interviewer]

So it sounds like you're having a hard time with these choices.

[Shantae Willis]

We don't have the choices, period. I don't think we have good choices, period. If they kill him tomorrow or they kill him when he gets in. I'm not saying that. I don't really want to put that out in the universe, but what are they going to do? We got Vance. Come on. That's not going to work. Why he chose him as his running mate. I don't know why Kamala chose Mr. Tim Walls. I don't know that man. He could be at my local Sherwin Williams or somewhere. I don't know if. I just wish there were other candidates to choose from. Oh, forget it. Why Does America not take the third party seriously? It's always a wasting vote.

[Interviewer]

Will you vote or are there circumstances where you might skip it?

[Shantae Willis]

No, I'm going to vote because that's my civic American duty. Too many people fought for me to vote, period. I'm going to vote because if I don't and if I don't like the outcomes, I don't have a right to say anything about what happens after. I'm going to vote because what do they say? Choose the lesser of two evils.

[Interviewer]

Who is that today? You have a few weeks, but if you had to make that choice today, do you have a lesser of two evils or are you not sure yet?

[Shantae Willis]

I hope I don't decide the day I choose to vote. Whether it's early voting or the actual day. Today it might be Trump. I don't have to like the man personally to stand behind some of his things, what he believes in. Trump has said he's not for Project 2025, however, Agenda 47, I've been reading it. Some of those things actually do line up with Project 2025. I don't think that he should be higher than anybody else trying to go for the same job any other American would do. I think he's taking the business lines and blowing them a little bit too far.

[Interviewer]

The end of that was criticizing or raising questions about him. But the beginning was you might vote for him.

[Shantae Willis]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So you're wrestling.

[Shantae Willis]

It's Ms. Harris, Mr. Trump, he's done the job. Can he continue the job? He won't get to do it again, hopefully, if he gets in so that I can almost and be done with that. But I don't think. I don't think Conway needs to be in there at all. But they're not putting anybody of some sort of.

[Interviewer]

Who would you trust more to handle the economy?

[Shantae Willis]

I don't know. I don't like Kamala's tax plan. How do you get me to give money on money I don't have yet as far as investing, which we like to do, and I'm not, I guess, big enough as a business owner to get the benefits that Trump is promising. It's so pick this or that. Pick this or that. And what more can you get out of this? Or what more will this candidate give you?

[Interviewer]

Does living in a state that is so competitive, you know, it was a stunner when Biden won here in 2020. And so the Democrats now think, huh, if we can take Georgia away, it's pretty hard for Trump to get there, right?

[John King]

Does that matter to you at all?

[Interviewer]

Or is it just this? I have to make my vote based on my life and what I want.

[Shantae Willis]

There you go.

[Interviewer]

That's it.

[Shantae Willis]

Just because something has been done for the longest time doesn't make a traditional routine. And I think a lot of people have to wake up and figure that out. Lots of people are coming here. Every year people are coming in, so that's where they're losing.

[Interviewer]

Do you have in your head a process? You're frustrated, you don't like either choice, but you're going to vote? Do you have any head, a process of what you're going to do over the next few weeks, or is it just, I'm going to, you know, it's all going to come in, you're going to see it on tv, you're going to see this, and then you're just going to decide at some point.

[Shantae Willis]

Honestly, I've been just researching it. I've been looking into both candidates. Like I said, Trump I'm almost comfortable with. Like, if it was just him and Biden, I could tell you today I was definitely going to vote for Trump. Go sign up proudly for my Republican, you know, ballot and let that be it and be rested and calm in my decision doing that. But then when he dropped out, it was like, all bets are off. Now you're making me, you know, re examine what I'm going to do. And I'm probably going to do a pro and con list, like the simplest way and say, hey, this is okay. This is not okay. And whoever has the most, that's what I'm going to do.

[Interviewer]

You said this won't affect your vote, but do you have friends or family members telling you, are you nuts? A woman of color, this should be automatic.

[Shantae Willis]

Yes, yes.

[Interviewer]

What do you say to them?

[Shantae Willis]

You don't want to, like, really push what they say. Religion and politics and things you just don't talk about with people. Right. Because if you want to keep them as family, friends or whatever you say, put that in the closet somewhere. My mother, she's over 60, so she's, you know, different time period. Never thought she'd see a black person president in her life. She did. Now Kamala Harris is for president. My mother says she don't care what she does. Let's just get her in there. And I simply don't feel the same. And we back and forth about it. We keep it, you know, where we're not fisticuffs, but oh my. And that's why people, it's called secret Ballot for a reason. These people putting these signs in their yard and you know, there's not a sign out in front of my house. When I take that serious, I don't want you to know because you might fire me. You might, you know, this or that to my son because I'm voting for this person or that person. It's not worth it to me.

[Interviewer]

Has it ever been this hard to make a decision?

[Shantae Willis]

No, no, no. Not at all. There was another time that I might have thought about voting Republican, but I have always voted Democrat even for the smaller every two year elections. I voted Democrat and I didn't like all the Democratic candidates, but I voted Democrat and I felt proud of that. Like I did what I was supposed to do. And you know, here, if you don't vote in so many elections, they take away your voting rights, I'll be. You ain't taking away my voting rights. Whether my candidate wins or loses. Clinton didn't win. I voted for her. But I voted. It's very important me to vote.

[Interviewer]

Well, we're going to have to check back to see when you. Well, to the very last second if we have to, to see what you decide or you let us know.

[Shantae Willis]

Okay, I sure will.

[Interviewer]

Anything else you want to add?

[Shantae Willis]

Take it seriously. People take it very seriously because whatever we decide, deciding to vote is a decision and deciding not to vote is a decision. But we'll be stuck with things that they enact or sign into law affect the next coming generation. Got to take it seriously.

[John King]

Want to bring into the conversation my sidekick on the road this past year.

[Allie Malloy]

Plus Hi everyone, I'm Allie Malloy and I'm the senior producer of all over the Map. So John, in the past year we've been to Georgia four times. This was the first trip we've taken since Harris was at the top of the ticket. What's changed?

[John King]

Everything has changed in the race in Georgia after that debate. Joe Biden was going to lose Georgia a lot of other places, but a stadia just flipped in 2020 was gone. If you talk to anybody there hours after the debate, let alone days after the debate, they were like the panic in the Democratic Party was off the charts. Then Harris comes in and what happens? Bam like that. An energized Democratic base. Georgia more than any other state, maybe North Carolina compares. Look at the size of the African American population. The foundational loyal element of the Democratic base. Love Joe Biden saw that debate. It just reinforced their doubts and their worries about was he up to the job. Not that they don't love the man, but could they see him as president for four more years? Could they look in the mirror and vote for him, keep him as commander in chief? Now it's Harris. You hear the energy in the voices. And when you ask them why, they say, look at her. She's vibrant, she's vigorous. And then you also see it in these younger voters, like Christine, who on the issues are aligned with the Democrats, and Biden just took the air out of their balloon. They felt no personal connection because of the age difference. All of a sudden you had a woman of color, the daughter of immigrants. What is Christine, a woman of color, a daughter of immigrants, who can see their story in the vice president, who are with her on the issues but feel a connection. She has went from, I feel an obligation to vote. I didn't in 2020. And that bothers me. I have an obligation to vote. I'll vote to. I want to vote. I'm excited to vote. I'm going to vote early. My ballot's getting in early. It's just night and day. So you can be a voter or you can be a active participant in the conversation. She's an active participant in the conversation now, and in a very close race, that can make a difference.

[Allie Malloy]

So do you think this race rests on enthusiasm?

[John King]

Yes. It's the most tired cliche in politics, but elections are decided by turnout. People say these things, you know, like, and you think, wow, that guy's stupid. I thought he's supposed to know what he's talking about. Elections are based on turnout.

[Interviewer]

Duh.

[John King]

Thanks, John King. We really needed you to say that. I had no idea that it depends on who shows up, but to me, it depends on turnout. Not in a what's the number who turns out? Especially in a state like Georgia. Christine is part of another interesting conversation. We haven't even mentioned, you know, the Asian American population in Georgia is multiplying and expanding really quickly. It's closing in on 5%. So in a 50, 50 state, a group that has 5%, you might think, oh, they're only 5%. No, no, no. That's huge. And so the AAPI community, which she talks about passionately in Georgia, is a growing political force. And, you know, when we drove from Atlanta out through the suburbs, you see different pockets of it, right? There's the Vietnamese community here. There's a Korean community here. There's the Indian community. It's a complicated, wonderful, diverse mix of people, but it is a growing political force in the state of Georgia and elsewhere. It's not Just the number, the raw number, it's who? And for Harris, maybe you're going to lose some working class people who voted for Joe Biden because he was the scrappy kid from Scranton. And Trump's trying to convince them she's the radical liberal from San Francisco. So if you're going to lose some places, you have to gain elsewhere. If you lose 10 here, you better pick those 10 up somewhere else because it's that close. And so that's the opportunity with Christine. She's not only getting off the sidelines, but she's going to help you with other people. And so enthusiasm, in that sense, enthusiasm can get you more than that one person's vote. That can matter in a close race, that can matter.

[Allie Malloy]

John, one of the many things you have taught me, which kills me to say, is the importance of certain demographics in what makes a state a battleground, what makes a state red, what makes a state blue. Something that's most interesting to me is education background. Talk a little bit about that and how that relates to Georgia.

[John King]

It's one of the things that's changed most in the too many years I've been doing this. This is Presidential election number 10, as I've said before, and it used to be it was, you know, what's the percentage of the black people, what's the percentage of this, what's the percentage of that you're always trying to find what is my leading indicator, if you will, to help me now, the clearest dividing line in the United States of America is your education level. And so why are Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Arizona, North Carolina, Nevada, why are they the battleground states? Well, if you look, go to census.gov, be a data geek like me and go through each of these states and look at what is the education level in these states, what percentage stopped at high school, what percentage got four years of college. That is the line they hug the national average when it comes to the percentage of the population that have a high school degree or the percentage of the population that went to four year college, they are right there. All of the battleground states are just above or just at or just below. California's way above. It's a blue state.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[John King]

North Dakota's a little below. It's a red state. It is the greatest, clearest dividing line in American politics right now. If you're trying to figure out a place, that's where I start now, it's not where I started 25 years ago is that where's the line on education here? Where does this State or where does this county. It can be changes within a state. That's why the Atlanta suburbs have changed so much. If you look at the population shifts in the Atlanta suburbs, that's what's happening. The population is becoming more diverse and more educated, which eight times out of 10, maybe nine times out of 10, makes it more Democratic.

[Allie Malloy]

John we've spoken to a lot of undecided voters all across the country. Some of them, you can tell, are just a little more undecided than others, whether it be because they are totally with one candidate on the policies, but not with them for whatever other reasons. Shantae, though she might be the most.

[John King]

Undecided of all voters, often surprise you. And I even I call them more unhappy voters than undecided voters because most people come to the table with political leanings, so they're unhappy more than they're undecided. Shantae is just fascinating in the sense that just listen to her. Sometimes you have to jump in with follow up questions, drop an issue in, drop a moment in, drop a quote from a candidate in to get somebody to sort of go through their back and forth. She does it all for you. She's saying really great things about Trump and then all of a sudden, whoop. Not much of a segue. No transition, just bam. I hate this. I don't like that he talks down to me this way. I disagree with him on abortion rights. This Harris, this is good, that's good. But don't expect me as a black woman to have to vote for her. And I don't like this. She sees things she likes in both of these candidates. She sees things that she profoundly dislikes in both of these candidates. She has deep distrust. There's a lot of unhappy or undecided pick your term voters do about does it matter? Is the system gonna work anyway? Shantaya is what some analysts would call a low information voter. She's not watching the news all the time. She's not really going on the Internet, at least not yet. I think that's an insulting term sometimes. It's not fair. People get information the way they get information. They still have one vote. Their vote still counts the same as everybody else. So everybody does this in their own way. But I just loved the spice, the energy that Shantae had debating herself, because I think her conflict over what to do is real and I think some of that is her present. I'm investing in crypto now. Donald Trump's a crypto guy. And her past. My mom told me stories about the civil rights movement and how important it was to vote. Number one, she will vote. That's important. That has cemented in her, yes, but the loyalty to the Democratic Party that her mom had and her grandmother would have had is not the same as you. As you move every year you move away from Selma and the civil rights movement and the Voting Rights act, the younger you are, the less personal connection you have to those big things. And so the challenge for Democrats if you want to keep that loyalty, is to give people a reason to stay loyal. This podcast version of all over the Map is a CNN Audio production. Our show producers are Grace Walker, Jesse Remedios and Ally Molloy. Our editor is Graylin Brashear and our senior producers are Dan Bloom and Haley Thomas. Dan Dezulla is our technical director and Steve Lichti is executive producer of CNN Audio. Support from Nikki Robertson, Jacqueline Calo, Alex Manassari, Robert Mathers, John Dianora, Lani Steinhardt, Jamis Andrust, Nicole Pesaru, and Lisa Namaro. Special thanks to Wendy Brundage and Katie Hinman. I'm John Kane.

[Claire Duffy]

I'm CNN tech reporter Claire Duffy. This week on the podcast Terms of Service, when you're texting with someone, it can feel like it's just you, your screen and the person on the other end. But it's not always that simple. There are scenarios where third parties might be able to access your messages, whether it's your employer or law enforcement. So how can you make sure your private conversations actually remain private? To answer this question, I have Rhianna Pfefferkorn here with me. Rihanna is a policy fellow at the Stanford Institute for Human Centered Artificial Intelligence.

[Shantae Willis]

My hope is that as the use.

[Allie Malloy]

Of end to end encryption has become.

[Shantae Willis]

More and more normalized, that we all.

[Allie Malloy]

Understand better that privacy is a fundamental human right.

[Claire Duffy]

Listen to CNN's terms of service with me, Claire Duffy, wherever you get your podcasts.

[John King]

Thanks for listening.