TAYLOR LORENZ Talks Journalism, Internet Labor, Viral Culture - The Adam Friedland Show

Transcript

A (0:01)

Do influencers or celebs know how much the Internet, like, sucks for everyone else?

B (0:06)

Yeah, I mean, I think it sucks for them, too.

A (0:08)

No, it doesn't.

B (0:10)

What are you talking about? They get, like. Well, they get money, but, I mean, I don't.

A (0:14)

Well, they get money.

B (0:15)

They get money. The people get more.

A (0:16)

Get more money than Austin Butler, probably. Would you be online if you were making $0?

B (0:22)

Absolutely not. No, no, no, no, no, no.

A (0:25)

I don't know. It's scary. It's like you can see people getting killed and then. And then the N word.

B (0:31)

A (0:32)

It's too scary. Itv. Hello and welcome back to the Adam Friedland Show. Guys, it's finally here. The merch. The merch. The merch. We've been talking about it for weeks. You guys have saw me preview it last week. I said, it'll be here any day now. It's finally launching. And for our members and patrons, you have access, early access, and discount codes for all merge drops moving forward, as well as early access to episodes. If you'd like to become a member or a patron, please hit the join button at the top of this page or the link in the description of this video below. For patreon and for YouTube memberships, we got three new shirts, plus the classic Adam Friedland logo shirt and one hat. And I think you guys are gonna look fucking sex. You guys are gonna look sex in them. You think so? Yeah. You've been wearing it. No. No. So once again, it's the TV Glow shirt. What are the other names? Put it on the screen. You got the logo shirt. The logo shirt. The doodle shirt. The doodle shirt. I don't really like it, actually. That's based on a shirt that we found Jay Leno made for the Tonight Show. Not a big deal. Pretty cool. And plus the TV Glow shirt. The TV Glow shirt, that's kind of based on, like, the CRT monitor. Kind of a Videodrome kind of Cronenberg style. Yeah. And then we have this hat, guys. I have pictures of hot girls wearing them. I'll be posting them all week. And of course, the classic Adam Friedland show logo shirt. Go to Adam TheAdamFridland show and Shop there for any of these shirts. The Adam Friedland show. Theadamfridland show for merch. My guest this week is journalist and podcaster Taylor Lorenz. Taylor has been in the news recently for a bombshell report she published in Wired magazine highlighting dark money funneled from the Democratic Party to political influencers across platforms. A damning piece of reporting that we fail to mention in the episode because it was recorded, like, how long ago? Yeah, a couple months ago, actually now. So we missed the big. You probably clicked for that. So why don't I call her? Yeah, I'm. Hit her up. She can catch you up. So it's like. Okay, calling Taylor. She'll catch us up.

Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: The Adam Friedland Show
Episode Title: TAYLOR LORENZ Talks Journalism, Internet Labor, Viral Culture
Date: September 10, 2025
Guest: Taylor Lorenz – Journalist and author known for her work on internet culture and influential reporting on social media, influencer labor, and free speech.

Main Theme:
Adam Friedland hosts acclaimed journalist Taylor Lorenz for a candid, often humorous, deep dive into the world of internet labor, influencer culture, journalism’s evolving identity, the problems and power dynamics of social platforms, and the current legislative landscape around speech online. Lorenz opens up about her own trajectory, the psychological toll of the internet, the reality of journalism as performance, and where the battleground for free speech sits in 2025.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Taylor Lorenz’s Latest Investigations and Public Response

Wired “Dark Money” Report:
- Lorenz recently published a controversial exposé in Wired revealing secret payments to Democratic influencers for party messaging.
- Quote (Taylor Lorenz, 04:16):
  "I published the story with Wired a couple weeks ago now, documenting a program that is being run in secret, basically where a bunch of Democrat influencers were receiving money."
- Network of about 90 influencers paid thousands monthly.
- Covered the fallout: backlash, slander, and disinformation.
- Adam humorously assures listeners he’s "not on the list".
Adam’s ‘I’m Not Involved’ Clarification:
- Adam asks Lorenz directly if his name ever appeared in the reporting (05:26-05:43).
  “Just for the record, did you ever see my name anywhere in any of those lists…?”
  Lorenz: “No, your name did not. You were not on the list. You did not get that.”*

2. Taylor Lorenz’s Career Path: From Tumblr to Mainstream Journalism

Internet Roots & Audience Building:
- Lorenz began as a viral Tumblr user, transitioned to brand social media, then media journalism, shaping a unique beat around online labor and influencer culture.
- Quote (11:10, Lorenz):
  "I was blogging, always writing about influencers when I was big on Tumblr… I'm gonna write my own articles about how, like, this is labor and like, this is work and like, Internet labor is real labor."
Social Media Roles:
- Social platforms, Vine, launching Daily Mail’s social, and running People Magazine’s Vine account.
- Controversial moments, like proposed brand posts exploiting 9/11 for Verizon (10:16–10:43).

3. The Birth and Evolution of Influencer Culture

Platform Shifts and Monetization:
- Discussion on the “Vine diaspora”—top creators demanding money, leading to a YouTube boom and the shift to multi-platform brands.
- Quote (18:19, Lorenz):
  "They wanted to do that. And I just remember being like, this was like, before there was even really backlash to brands online. But I was like, I feel like, we shouldn't do that."
Rise of the Attention Economy:
- Lorenz identifies the centrality of money and legitimacy in influencer careers:
  "Just the money and the legitimacy" (18:58, Lorenz)

4. The Psychological and Social Impact of the Internet

The Price of Being Online:
- Both hosts agree most internet activity is economically driven.
- Quote (B, 19:29):
  "Would you be online if you were making zero dollars?"
  "Absolutely not. No, no, no, no, no."
Anonymity, Surveillance Culture, and New Norms:
- Debate on anonymity vs. age verification and the drawbacks for democracy and activism (24:33–25:22).
Crowdsourced Surveillance State:
- With everyone recording each other, the traditional “press hat” now blends into ordinary society (21:34–21:43).

5. Journalism, Branding, and the Myth of Neutrality

Transparency About Political Allegiance:
- Lorenz prefers openness about her political stance, challenging “neutrality” as a mainstream media myth.
- Memorable exchange (A/B, 32:07–34:36):
  Adam: “What is the line between someone that's playing the game, someone that's covering the game, and where do you exist?”
  Lorenz: “Journalism is not a neutral act. Every editorial decision is made to present a certain version of events. And so I just think it's a farce to not acknowledge that."
Branding as Survival:
- Journalists now must develop a brand to compete in the attention economy (34:48–35:56).
Consequences of Public Criticism:
- Lorenz on reporting critically about high-profile figures (e.g. Mr. Beast, Pamela Geller’s daughters), and public fallout.
- Quote (B, 37:10):
  "I report critically on people that are doing scams on the for real tip… I've gotten people's like shows canceled, I guess, on like networks and stuff.”

6. The Free Speech Debate and Section 230

Censorship & Speech Legislation:
- Lorenz critiques the bipartisan push for internet censorship and warns about threats to anonymous speech and Section 230.
- Quote (B, 22:44):
  "I do believe in like an open web and free speech and the Internet's democratizing power. What's been really scary…is this regression where they're so pro censorship, so pro they want to fucking dismantle section 230.”
Profit Motives of Platforms:
- Most online regulation is designed with corporate profits in mind, not public speech rights (48:46).
Age Verification & Online Anonymity:
- Lorenz: Removing anonymity is dangerous for democracy and activism (25:00–25:22).

7. Internet, Capitalism, and Potential Solutions

Capitalism’s Role in Internet Toxicity:
- Lorenz situates problems of online culture in deeper economic issues:
  "A lot of the problems that people ascribe to the Internet are broader problems with capitalism. And I think we could have a less profit driven Internet and that would be a better Internet." (50:51)
Antitrust, Competition, and User Control:
- Advocates for competition in the tech space, user empowerment, and smarter regulation—rather than censorship (51:07).

8. Personal Toll and Media Satire

Harassment and Public Scrutiny:
- Lorenz, often targeted online, talks about threats (including swatting), and the difference between digital hate and real-life risks (42:49–43:14). "What I care about is people swatting my parents… people swatting my family members." (43:12)
Media Appearances as Performance:
- Lorenz admits the oddity of being the subject of news coverage and relishes opportunities to confront critics directly (Hannity, Fox News, 44:01).
Resilience via Humor:
- Despite relentless attacks, Lorenz maintains perspective:
  "I don't care if people say all day how many times I trend on Twitter. It's funny to me." (42:51)

9. Closing Reflections – The Project of Taylor Lorenz

Mission and Ambition:
- Lorenz’s goals now lie in helping the public understand internet economies, media dynamics, and especially the need to defend free speech online.
- Quote (B, 46:48):
  "I want to help people understand the Internet. I want people to recognize the dynamics of our Internet, sort of help educate people about the attention economy and take it seriously…I’m very focused on speech, free speech and protecting free speech online."
Warning Against Authoritarian Solutions:
- Draws on historical free speech stances (like the ACLU’s defense of the Nazis in Skokie) to contrast with current left-leaning support for deplatforming.
Diagnosis:
- The toxicity online is systemic—personal branding, a broken attention economy, weak labor movements, and the profit-driven structure of tech platforms all play a role.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Internet Survival:
"I think it probably drove me insane a long time ago. And now I'm just like the frog in water." — Taylor Lorenz, 07:48
Journalists as Influencers:
"I was, like, very early to embrace the, like, influencer journalist thing, and that made a lot of people in mainstream media really mad at me." — Lorenz, 09:02
Reporting and Repercussions:
"I report critically on people that are doing scams on the for real tip… I've gotten people's like shows canceled." — Lorenz, 37:10
On Media Neutrality:
"Journalism is not a neutral act… to say that it is is a farce." — Lorenz, 33:32
On Free Speech:
"I think we should have more competition. I think we should have more private spaces. I think users deserve more control online over their online experience." — Lorenz, 51:07

Timestamps for Important Segments

Taylor summarizes Wired “dark money” report: 04:16–05:43
Lorenz’s start in internet culture and early social jobs: 09:34–11:33
Vine to YouTube migration and rise of multiplatform influencers: 17:51–18:58
Section 230 and free speech/censorship argument: 22:44–25:22
Branding, media and the myth of neutrality: 32:07–34:36
Consequences and impact of reporting (Mr. Beast, right-wing influencers): 36:07–38:24
Harassment and psychological toll of online journalism: 42:49–43:38
On her mission and the importance of defending speech: 46:48–48:25

Tone

The episode is at once irreverent—full of jokes, satire, and tangents—and deeply engaged with the questions at the core of new-media journalism, the internet economy, and the struggle for democratic spaces online. Lorenz’s openness, wit, and willingness to challenge norms consistently match Adam Friedland’s comedic, probing, and at times purposely clueless style, resulting in a blend of humor and insight for anyone interested in the tangled realities of working, reporting, and living online in 2025.