WILLIAM H. MACY Talks Fargo, Auditions, PTA

Summary

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The Adam Friedland Show: WILLIAM H. MACY Talks Fargo, Auditions, PTA

Air date: November 19, 2025
Guest: William H. Macy
Host(s): Adam Friedland (with co-hosts and team, possibly including Theo Von and Caleb Pitts)

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Overview

In this episode of The Adam Friedland Show, Emmy-winning actor William H. Macy joins Adam and crew for a wide-ranging, candid, and frequently hilarious conversation. They dive deep into Macy’s origins in theater, his creative partnership with playwright David Mamet, his breakthrough performances in films like Fargo, Boogie Nights, and Magnolia, as well as his insights on acting, auditioning, and working with greats like Paul Thomas Anderson. Macy reflects on the evolution of film and television, the practical craft of acting, memorable moments from his long career, and his future as both actor and director.

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Main Discussion Themes

• William H. Macy’s Early Life and Education
• Mentorship under David Mamet & Theater Roots
• Auditioning and Breaking into Film & TV
• Iconic Roles (Fargo, Boogie Nights, Magnolia) and Working with Top Directors
• Reflections on Acting Technique & The Business
• Stories from Sets and Collaborations
• Views on Modern Film, TV, and Upcoming Projects
• Personal Life, Longevity, and Motivations

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Macy's Upbringing and Family (07:00 – 12:00)

• Origins: Macy was born in Miami, raised in Atlanta, and Maryland.
• Father’s WWII Experience: His father was a B-17 pilot in World War II; Macy recounts harrowing survival rates and his father's stories, including the change in cultural attitudes during wartime.

“When the 8th Air Force first went to England, they would send over 80 planes and 20 would come back. It was just this shy of a suicide mission.”
— William H. Macy (07:23)

• Personal Anecdotes: Macy describes being awestruck as his father candidly recounted WWII and post-war ‘romantic exploits’ during a road trip.

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Discovering Acting & Meeting David Mamet (12:15 – 19:00)

• Early Interest: Macy found success in acting during high school and college.
• Goddard College: Macy met playwright David Mamet at this “hippie college,” where Mamet became Macy’s primary mentor, deeply influencing his craft.

“He taught me everything I know about acting. And he’s the smartest guy I’ve ever met, present company excluded.”
— William H. Macy (12:32)

• Acting Lessons from Mamet: Focus is on action, not emotion; respect the writer; your job is to find solutions and never give up.

“It doesn't matter how you feel, it’s what you do... The most, the founder of the feast is the writer… The audience only wants to know one thing and one thing only: What happens next.”
— William H. Macy (15:02)

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Chicago Theater and Early Career (19:05 – 26:50)

• Founding Theaters: After college, Macy and friends (with Mamet’s encouragement) founded the St. Nicholas Theater in Chicago, launching during the “off-loop renaissance.”
• Early TV Work: Macy details the grind of guest-starring on television (e.g., Law & Order), calling it “soul-sucking” and saying not having to audition anymore is one of the great perks of his career.

“Auditioning is awful. If there were a better way, I’m sure someone would have thought of it. But it’s soul-sucking, it’s really rough.”
— William H. Macy (26:42)

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Breaking Through: Fargo and Pushing for Roles (28:18 – 30:43)

• On Reading Scripts: Macy describes his approach—read scripts in one sitting, ignore directions, look for the movie in your mind.
• Audition Story: He went to extremes to get the role of Jerry Lundegaard in Fargo, including crashing auditions and being blunt with the Coen brothers.

“I got my Lutheran ass on an airplane and I crashed that audition and I said, I really want this part. I’m scared you’re gonna screw up your movie by not casting me.”
— William H. Macy (29:54)

• Memorable Threat:

“I think I went farther and told Ethan, who had a new puppy, that I would kill the dog if he didn’t cast me. Thank God he laughed.”
— William H. Macy (30:31)

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On Craft: Acting Techniques, Method vs. Practical (36:32 – 63:10)

• Acting Philosophy: Practicality over mystique. Research for roles is vital (dialect, procedure), but the real craft is in spontaneous, honest interaction.

“The acting is looking at each other and deciding what I’m going to do about what you just said and making that decision… it’s got to be improvisatory… Same words. I also believe I don’t believe in ad-libbing. I say, learn the script.”
— William H. Macy (37:03)

• How to be Present: Macy shares that a foundational acting goal is to “really look and really listen,” and how even seasoned co-actors get thrown by genuine focus.

“You have to remind yourself before every scene, every take… because everything is trying to push your attention back on yourself.”
— William H. Macy (60:22)

• Against Overwrought Method: Macy lightly mocks actors who strictly practice method acting, preferring a more workmanlike approach.

“We’re not actually ninjas, okay? We’re playing ninjas at work. We’re adults wearing costumes.”
— Host (63:41)

• On Character:

“There is no character. The idea of character is a trick we play on the audience as a magician would, and the audience says, yes, trick me again.”
— William H. Macy (63:04)

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Working with Directors, Co-Stars, and Memorable Films

Paul Thomas Anderson & Boogie Nights (41:02 – 55:36)

• Auditioning for PT Anderson: Macy went to Boogie Nights ready to make his case, only to realize Anderson was “auditioning” for Macy by talking him through the film.

“At a point I realized, oh my God, he’s auditioning. He’s also 28. He said ‘I’m the guy who’s going to make this decision.’”
— William H. Macy (42:11)

• On Set Stories: Explains how missed lines (e.g., the famous “ass in her cock” flub) became part of the character’s breakdown and legend.

“I did it the second time and the third time I did it correctly. And Paul… decided there was some wisdom, there was some truth in the reason I said it wrong.”
— William H. Macy (44:42)

• Set Dynamics: Macy discusses how ensemble sets become like families, highlighting the importance of humility and doing your own job.

“If you’ve got a good director and good producer, they’ll straighten [troublesome actors] up. If you don’t, you suffer through it.”
— William H. Macy (46:36)

• On John Travolta:

“There is a hierarchy on set… If you’ve got a bad producer, director, or #1 on the call sheet, everyone’s gonna suffer. John is great at that… He just sets the tone of kindness and respect on the set.”
— William H. Macy (48:17)

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Magnolia, Philip Seymour Hoffman, and Ensemble Excellence (51:23 – 55:35)

• On Working with PSH: Macy idolizes Philip Seymour Hoffman, crediting him as “the best of us” and marvels at his transformative abilities.

“You have to sort of remind yourself, this is Phil. This is the same guy that did that other thing. He was magnificent… all those characters live within him.”
— William H. Macy (54:48)

• “A rising tide lifts all boats”: Macy believes everyone elevates when working with extraordinary actors.

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States of the Industry: Film, TV, and New Projects (70:44 – 79:32)

• Shift to Television: Macy acknowledges prestige, creativity, and opportunity are now abundant in TV, though he misses movies driven by character and story.

“TV’s where it’s at.” (70:57)
“Remember when [movies] were about people?” (71:05)

• Indie Film Outlook: Shares optimism for independent films getting theatrical releases again.

• Upcoming Roles:

  • Soul on Fire: An indie about resilience, where Macy plays legendary announcer Jack Buck.
  • Edgar Wright’s The Running Man: A Stephen King adaptation, Macy has a part in this dystopian action film.
  • Train Dreams: Quiet Dennis Johnson western adaptation with Joel Edgerton, which moved Macy deeply.

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Reflections, Motivation & Longevity (65:43 – 70:26)

• Staying “Young” at 75: Macy credits exercise, moderation, and a supportive family for his vitality. He pokes fun at being successful enough to “not look at the check.”
• Motivation: He needs creative challenges—the idea of retirement doesn’t suit him. Macy humorously laments not being as rich as he’d hoped.

“I need some sort of creative challenge. It's the way I've always challenged myself in my life and I think I need that.”
— William H. Macy (68:27)

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Notable Quotes, Moments, and Timestamps

On Auditioning for Fargo:

“I said, you’re gonna fuck up your movie if you don’t cast me. I think I went farther and told Ethan, who had a new puppy, that I would kill the dog if he didn’t cast me. Thank God he laughed.”
— William H. Macy (02:11, 30:31)

On David Mamet:

“He taught me everything I know. He’s the smartest guy I’ve ever met.”
— William H. Macy (12:31)

Acting Philosophy:

“Don’t worry about how you feel about it. ... Our job was to find a solution to these problems and never give up.”
— William H. Macy (15:02)

On Being Present:

“To really look and really listen. You have to remind yourself before every single—not only scene, every take... because everything is trying to push your attention back on yourself.”
— William H. Macy (60:22)

On The Value of Ensemble:

“When you get all those people of all different backgrounds… and they’re all pulling in one direction for art… it’s really moving.”
— William H. Macy (45:55)

Favorite Line:

“Let me save him. He’s the President, for God’s sake.” (Air Force One)
— William H. Macy (77:00)

On Philip Seymour Hoffman:

“We all knew he was the best of us. ... It was a bit magical.”
— William H. Macy (53:31, 53:46)

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Memorable, Lighthearted, and Candid Moments

• Repeated jokes about Macy’s status as “one of the coolest guys” and references to cranky costars and Wild Hogs (47:08)
• Anecdotes about on-set flubs, notably the “ass in her cock” line in Boogie Nights (44:00)
• Admiration for co-stars, and ribbing about aging and health (65:43)
• Discussion of his own longevity, working out, and dietary changes (67:00)

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Conclusion

William H. Macy’s appearance is a masterclass in humility, wisdom, and industry insight, full of sharp anecdotes, practical advice, and self-effacing humor. Whether describing the terror and tenacity behind his unforgettable roles or the everyday dedication to his craft, Macy embodies the philosophy taught by his mentor Mamet: acting is ultimately about what you do, not how you feel.

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• 07:00 – 12:00: Family, WWII, stories about Macy’s father
• 12:15 – 19:00: Early acting, Goddard College, meeting David Mamet
• 28:18 – 30:43: Auditioning for Fargo, crash-landing the audition
• 36:32 – 63:10: Acting philosophy, technique, method acting, practical aesthetics
• 41:02 – 55:36: Working with Paul Thomas Anderson, Boogie Nights, Magnolia, ensemble acting
• 65:43 – 70:26: Personal life, longevity, motivation at age 75
• 70:44 – 79:32: State of industry, TV/film, upcoming projects including Soul on Fire, The Running Man, Train Dreams
• 77:00: Favorite line

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For fans of acting, creative process, and Hollywood lore, this episode is as entertaining as it is insightful.

Transcript

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[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

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[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

American masterpiece.

[William H. Macy]

Yes, I was doing back. No, I was terrified that I wouldn't get it. I was up all night. Everybody I knew in LA was there. I probably memorized my entire part the whole morning. Yeah.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Damn.

[William H. Macy]

I found out they were auditioning in New York. I got my Lutheran ass on an airplane and I crashed that audition and I said, I really want this part. I'm scared you're gonna screw up your movie by not casting me. That was not a good idea. What I did. It worked. I don't recommend it.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

What'd you say?

[William H. Macy]

I said, you're gonna fuck up your movie if you don't cast me. I think I went farther and told Ethan, who had a new puppy, that I would kill the dog if he didn't cast me. Thank God. HE LAUGH SA.

[Adam Friedland]

Hello and welcome back to the Adam Friedland show. It's Adam Friedland off top. I just have to say I'm going back on the road.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It's perhaps an economic necessity. Oh, God.

[Adam Friedland]

I'm going back on the road, folks. This year, 2026 I will be hitting next year, 2026. I will be hitting a city near you. First date, Seattle, Washington. January 22nd to the 24th, March five shows. Get your [e-mail] there's also a link in the description. My man over here, Mr. Mr. Knows.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

What year it is, is going to be there too.

[Adam Friedland]

Mr. Caleb Pitts.

[William H. Macy]

Give it up for him.

[Adam Friedland]

Caleb Pitts, everyone. Also, I'd like to as always thank our members for supporting us here on YouTube.com you make the show possible. Members get access to all of our episodes early and if you join the second or third tiers and you get your name in the credits of this fine program. If you'd like to join the Friedland Family foundation, you could do so by clicking the join Button here on YouTube at the top of the page or clicking the link in the description below. You can also support us on Patreon if you prefer. The link for that is also in the description. Finally, merch is available. Go to theadamfridland show to check it out. Shirts, hats, some hoodies. We got the freaking sickette.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

You wanna just, just. Yeah, my man got the hoodie over there.

[Adam Friedland]

They're all available right now. Get them before they're gone. They're flying like hotcakes. My guest this week is Emmy award winning actor William H. Macy. I call him Bill personally, but you probably will.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

You know him as William.

[Adam Friedland]

William is known for many roles in film and television gritty properties like Fargo and Shameless. Bill, on the other hand, is known by me for roles of some of my favorite films. The tale of disproportionately.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

What is this Despereau Despereaux are these.

[Adam Friedland]

Movies that he was in? So we're doing the thing again where.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Caleb writes it and then I kind of. I'm not good at reading.

[Adam Friedland]

Bill, on the other hand, is known by me for roles in some of my favorite films like the tale of Despereau or Marmaduke. He's in Marmaduke the dog one. That's funny. Okay, see some enjoy Mystery, horror, romance. I like talking animal movies. The there's a certain funniness to an animal that speaks English. And to sit across from a veteran of the genre, a man portrayed not only Dr. Don and to sit across from a veteran of the genre, a man who portrayed not only Don Twombly but also Desparreau's father, Lester. What a treat. Sometimes I can't believe my life.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Ladies and gentlemen, William H. Mac.

[Adam Friedland]

Wow, it's a nice pick.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

The eyes Too phenomenal.

[Adam Friedland]

Give it up for him, guys. And Thomas Eiseman, Caleb Pitts. I love my team. Okay, ladies and gentlemen, our next guest is a legendary American actor.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It's a great honor. William H. Macy, everyone. Give it up for him.

[Adam Friedland]

Guys, boys, lot of noise.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

What do you think? 40,000 people? Yes, 40,000.

[William H. Macy]

Don't get up.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Don't get up. Stop.

[Adam Friedland]

You stop.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

You're crazy. We really let out the insane asylum with these guys, huh?

[William H. Macy]

We're in an empty room.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

We're. Please, an empty room. Would you say that if you were shooting a picture and you know.

[William H. Macy]

No, I would only say that on your show.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, sir. Thank you so much for coming on. So he's a huge fan. He hasn't missed a single episode, apparently. That's what you were telling me before.

[William H. Macy]

I think I missed one.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah. Yeah. I think he's missed every episode. So this is gonna be. It's. It's a great honor. I've been watching a lot of interviews with you and, you know, doing. I do quite extensive research. And you go, you're Bill. Yeah. And I can say Bill.

[William H. Macy]

Yes, you can.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

That makes me feel famous, kind of. You know what I mean?

[William H. Macy]

I'm glad.

[Adam Friedland]

I remember.

[William H. Macy]

Like a cheap date, but I'm glad.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

I just want to go into you a little bit, your upbringing, and then kind of just work our way out from there. Like, I think you grew up. You were born in Miami, grew up around Atlanta and then Maryland. Is that correct? Correct. Your father was a bomber in World War II.

[William H. Macy]

He flew a B17. In World War II. He was a pilot.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

He was a pilot. Did he get shot down?

[William H. Macy]

No.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

There was no Hogan's Heroes situation with him?

[William H. Macy]

No. When the 8th Air Force first went to England, they would send over 80 planes and 20 would come back. It was just this shy of a suicide mission. By the time my dad got there, 80 would go over and only 20 would not come back. So it was death defying, man.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

From what I understand, the raf, they would do nighttime, just like bombing raids, and they just bomb indiscriminately. But the. But the United States Air Force, the.

[William H. Macy]

US Said we can't hit anything.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah. We would go surgical, and then that was. Thus. It was a lot more dangerous.

[William H. Macy]

It was a big controversy because in daylight bombing, you stood a much bigger chance of getting shot down. By the time my dad got there, the Luftwaffe was pretty much blown out of the skies, and that was one thing. But there was still a lot of flak.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah. I mean, it would have been fun to be in one of those prank kind of prisoner of war camps where they were like Frankie the Commandante jokes altois. That's what they made it look like. Hogan's Heroes. Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

I took my dad to see, well, a war movie that was about B17s and bomber pilots. I said, what'd you think? And he said, that's ludicrous. It's ludicrous. First of all, you can't talk. You can't take the headsets off and talk. And even with the headsets, you can. There were four Rolls Royce engines with no mufflers on.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

I mean, they must have gone deaf.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah, yeah. My dad had hearing loss from that. And the second thing, of course in this movie, they thought bombing was not dramatic enough. So they put, you know, interstitiary fighting between the bombardier and the pilot. My father said, oh, my God, that's the stupidest premise ever. When you were up there, man, you didn't think of anything except getting back alive.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

I mean, it was just like literally, like 10% would come back.

[William H. Macy]

At the beginning.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

At the beginning? Yeah. My grandfather was a cartographer in the RAF, actually, and he was stationed in Italy. And then after he died, I guess the flirt back in the day, instead of like, you know, messaging someone on Instagram was a snapshot. It was like a passport sized photograph. And then the girl would write a note on the back. And he. After he died, my father and I were emptying out his office and there were stacks of these pictures of Italian women in post war Italy that were like, barney, I've never known a lover like you. And I was like, he was cleaning up. But yeah, I mean, I think being in the air, I think was a sexy thing to chicks.

[William H. Macy]

Oh, man. One time I was living in Chicago. I grew up in Cumberland, Maryland. So you had to go to Baltimore Washington Airport. And I said, pop, can you take me? He said, yeah, I'll take you. I said, we should leave at blah blah blah to get there. It's a long drive. And he said, no, I'll take you. I said, yeah, I'm just saying I got to be there in Alberta. He said, no, I'll take you. I said, what are you saying? He said, I'll take you. I said, to Chicago? He said, yeah, I'll take you. And he drove me to Chicago. We took two days to do it. We hadn't gotten out of the driveway. But when my dad started telling me about every woman he had ever slept.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

With, how bad was this war? You know? He said, These guys were getting trim left and right. Not in the Pacific.

[William H. Macy]

Crazy. And the second the war was over, it went back to that puritanical thing. But during the war, all bets were off.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

He's like, I'm not Lutheran.

[William H. Macy]

You know, all the way to Chicago, I sat there with my mouth open, just listening, soaking it up. And it was before cell phones. If I could have recorded that. Oh, my God.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Oh, my word. Yeah. It's nice to know that the older members of our family. We're cool guys. It makes you feel good. I'm glad. My grandfather. Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

His older brother was a gunner in.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

The raf, also stationed in Italy. And a friend of his, he took a shift for a guy, and he was shot down by the Nazis over Crete. And he's my father's namesake, actually, Max Friedland. He's like, that's the one instance of heroism in our entire family tree is that guy.

[Adam Friedland]

But anyway, I want to get to you.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

So from what I understand, you knew that you wanted to go into acting and dramatic arts fairly young. What were, like, some. What were some, like, films and performances and actors that kind of spoke to you when you were growing up?

[William H. Macy]

I did it in high school, and I didn't fail, which was new for me. And then I did it in college, and then I finally went to a hippie college in Vermont called Goddard College. And that's where I met David Mamet.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

And he taught me everything I know.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Who's your mentor, if I understand?

[William H. Macy]

My mentor, my pal. And he gave me my career, and he taught me everything I know about acting. And he's the smartest guy I've ever met, present company excluded. And I saw the French Connection with Gene Hackman.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

And I thought, if I could ever act like that, that was my goal and remains my goal.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

How old were you when you saw that?

[William H. Macy]

20S.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

In your 20s. And you're like that, man. Have you ever been in a car chase? I mean, I assume the actors don't drive the cars, but.

[William H. Macy]

I haven't. But in that one. This is before they started to crack down on that stuff Gene Hackmoon was driving. And I've read. Yes. And I've read stories that they owned a bunch of the streets, but not all of them.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Oh, yeah. And it's also Marseille. It's in Marseille.

[William H. Macy]

Right.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Which is like a Mafia city.

[William H. Macy]

No, New York.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Well, it's. But it starts off in Marseille.

[William H. Macy]

Yes, it does, but the car chase. So the car chases, the arrest.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

But those are like. Yeah. Under the elevated trains, of course. Yeah. Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

Oh, my God.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

So those old Gene Hackman. Rest in peace, bo.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

I never got to act with him. Dave did a movie with him. He was never bad. I saw him in some stinky movies. He was never bad.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It's true. Yeah. It's really just like. I don't think there's anyone that's. I mean, yourself included, Actually, the two of you might be the most. Just every time you're on screen, everyone's like, oh, great. Like my pal. It feels that way. Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

That's a good thing.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

When you were studying with David Mamet, like, as you've said, he was your mentor. Like, what specifically were the things and the lessons that he imparted on you that you've taken into your career?

[William H. Macy]

Well, it was a hippie college, so there were no grades and no tests and no requirements. So we did theater all day and all night sometimes. And there was a class of about 30. He had gone. He graduated from Goddard and he'd gone to New York, and he was in what did one year of the neighborhood playoffs. And then he came back then. So it's. The technique is Stanislavski through Meisner, roughly. And he refined it. When I start talking about acting technique, I can see the will to live drained from people. So just stop me at any time.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

No, no. I'm getting a free class right now. Basically, the cameras aren't even on. I'm a schizophrenic person who's recreated the Dick Cavett show set. And you've spent all my life savings. And when they run out, I'm not gonna be able to talk to.

[William H. Macy]

Well, that's sad. I'm glad I made it. Made it before that happened.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah. Yeah, hopefully.

[William H. Macy]

Anyway, he took the Meisner technique, which is all about the objective as opposed to the emotions, and he refined it even more so the lessons that he gave me. He said, it doesn't matter how you feel, it's what you do. I'm talking about you acting. When the camera's rolling or the curtain is up, it's what you do about it. Don't worry about how you feel about it. He said he taught us that the most, the founder of the feast is the writer, and that it's not an actor's job to be funny, it's the writer's job to be funny or dramatic, and that our job was to find a solution to these problems and never give up. So irrespective of what you're doing, figure out what to do to fix it and let the Rest, go, hang. He taught us that the audience only wants to know one thing and one thing only. What happens next. That's it. He simplified it. And you know what? It stuck with me for my whole life. He said, as an actor, if anyone ever treats you with disrespect, quit. Leave the room. Don't ever let that happen. And this was back in a time when acting teachers were notoriously vicious.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Notoriously like cult leaders, in fact.

[William H. Macy]

Yes. Rip your soul out of you.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

They want to convince you that you were like, molested, even if you weren't like. They were like. Yeah. I've had friends have horror stories about acting teachers. Oh, God, yeah.

[William H. Macy]

Awful, Awful. And I loved him for that because. It's true. It's true. I even talked to a really famous teacher one time. We were drinking. I ended up standing on the table saying, you're a fucking asshole. He thought it was his job to rip people down emotionally, just to leave them in tatters and then rebuild them.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

And I said, man, I'd love to teach you how to teach and. And rip you down and destroy your self esteem so that I could make you a better teacher.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Also, you're teaching cause you don't know how the fuck to that. I mean, kind of.

[William H. Macy]

You said it, I didn't.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

I mean, it's like sometimes when you read a review, like, that's why, like, Roger Ebert made like an incredible movie, right? And I think, like, to some extent, it's like, if you're talking shit on some other people's like, you better. You better just be able to do it yourself, you know, like, beyond the Valley of the Dolls is an incredible picture.

[William H. Macy]

But I will say, Dave Mamet is a magnificent teacher and director, and he knows more about storytelling than anybody I've ever met. He couldn't act his way out of a paper bag, and he was the first to see it.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Well, he's a filmmaker, you know.

[William H. Macy]

He's a filmmaker.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah, yeah. And as you know, playwright and a screenwriter. I mean, it's so funny to imagine him at a hippie college, though. That's the visual that I'm getting. Cause he's just like a fucking alpha male, like sergeant major general, you know, and like, he's surrounded by like, the dawning of the age of Aquarius. And it's not wrong.

[William H. Macy]

You're not wrong. We showed up, first thing he said is, you got to be on time. If you're not on time, I'll kick you out of the class. And on time means five minutes early after that I'll lock the door and all this, you know, My hair was down to here. I think I was stoned for the first five classes anyway, because I was stone all day anyway. And you're like, hey, President Nixon, man. What? On time.

[Adam Friedland]

On time.

[William H. Macy]

What's the problem? Jesus, chill out.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

And so you got your start in theater in Chicago with him. Is that correct?

[William H. Macy]

Yeah. My friend Stephen Schacter and me, after graduating from Goddard, we wanted to start a theater company. That's another thing Dave taught us. You can sit by the phone or you can make your own fun. And we decided to make our own fun. So we. We went to la, tried to start a theater there, which is like opening a Sunday school in Beirut. It was just not a good idea. And Dave called up and he said, bully, Stevie. I just wrote this play. It's called Squirrels Come on to Chicago. And he'd just done Sexual Perversity in Chicago, which was a huge hit. Did it at the Organic Theater. Stuart Gordon directed it. And, yeah, he was the. The beast. He was the. Sorry about that. He was the. I saw.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Is that your daughter?

[William H. Macy]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Does she know the show? She might know the show.

[William H. Macy]

I'll bet she does. She knows everything.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

She'll tell you. It's good.

[William H. Macy]

There was a Paul Simon. Simon and Garfunkel concert one time when the phone rang and our Garfunkel said, stop. And he stopped the band and he said, you better get that. It could be important.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

He was a good actor, too.

[William H. Macy]

Yes, he was.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

I just watched Cardinal Knowledge. Fabulous. What a movie.

[William H. Macy]

Mike Nichols.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Had you ever worked with him before? No, no, no. He came out of the theater as well, you know, you could tell in his.

[William H. Macy]

Nichols. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Second City.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Him and Elaine May were just like.

[William H. Macy]

I got to work with Elaine once.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

She is. She was the best.

[William H. Macy]

Yes.

[Adam Friedland]

The fucking best.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

I saw her in a Kenneth Lonergan play.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Probably eight years ago, and it, like, floored me. She played like a matriarch that was like early stage dementia. And the whole family was fucking sick and tired of her. And it's just. It breaks you, that movie.

[William H. Macy]

Oh, man.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

What was she like to interact with?

[William H. Macy]

Pretty crazy. She had written the play. It was called Mr. Gogol and Mr. Preen at Lincoln Center. And. She was. She's a kook. She's an eccentric and delightful and smart as a whip. Indefatigable knowledge of all things theatrical.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah. It was something I found out when she made Ishtar. She was one of two women in the Director's Guild.

[William H. Macy]

Geez.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

At the time, I had no idea.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah, I liked Ishtar. Remember how they just skewed.

[Adam Friedland]

I liked Ishtar.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

I loved it. Well, it was that because she was spending so much money.

[William H. Macy]

The camel. The camel. Sunken.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Well, you know what I really liked about that movie was that they got them to play against type.

[William H. Macy]

Totally.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Dustin Hoffman's the Pimp and Warren Beatty's the Nebbish.

[William H. Macy]

I know. Genius casting. And they were both great.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Oh my God, we love them. They're amazing.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah, you can't. What's the song? You can't get respect if you play an accordion.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

I love funny songs too. You know that as a through line throughout. That movie is hilarious as well. You know, I hate that I have this instinct to do it, but we're really annoying people. But it's just so funny because every name that comes up, you're just surrounded by Jewish people.

[William H. Macy]

It was good for me. One. I was exotic.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah, yeah.

[William H. Macy]

No, literally still had a bit of a southern accent.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Brazilian, basically.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah, Right. So they. They sort of marveled at me. And every once in a while when we read something by AR Gurney or something, I had to translate. This is what WASPs do. And Dave once described me as being hebraically challenged. He was on me all the time.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

He was a wild man. He was like a gambler and like a smoke cigar. He had cigars and stuff like that? Yeah, he was kind of like. What do you call it? Like Peckinpah or something.

[William H. Macy]

Well, strangely, he's the most courtly and gentlemanly man I've ever met. Really? Yeah, he's really good that way. And a laser sharp mind. I've seen him on a set, greet the extras and introduce himself. And 14 hours later, he says good night to them by name.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Oh, he has that like Bill Clinton quality. He's like just knows people's names. Yeah, I mean, the man's a genius. You told a story about in Chicago when he was living in the hotel on a podcast that I heard once and I just thought it was so funny.

[William H. Macy]

The Hotel Lincoln.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you were saying that like he would just disappear for weeks on end. And you were like, he's on another gambling bender.

[William H. Macy]

Well, he put this in American Buffalo, which was based on his card game, which was uptown at a Kenny's resale shop. And Dave was teach and Kenny was Donnie. And I got to meet Kenny and you'd know whether Dave had won or not by his wristwatch. If he had his wristwatch, he was doing fine. If he had no Wristwatch. We had to get the check.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Did you have some rough customers after him? Was he like, don't pick up the phone today? Yeah. You didn't have some, like, yeah. You didn't have some guys.

[William H. Macy]

That tough, tough guy thing that he puts on me, He's a lover, not a fighter. Although he's been taking jiu jitsu for a hundred years. So I wouldn't want to tackle him.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

I would tackle David Mamet without even saying hello. I would take him down. No, you were in a lot of the original productions of a lot of his and you've been in a lot of pictures that he's made. But, like, from there, like, what was the decision to kind of move to New York and then eventually LA and like, get in, get in the business, make movies, be in movies.

[William H. Macy]

We were pretty snobby in Chicago. I was there a little less than 10 years. We started a theater company called the St. Nicholas Theater Company. We were part of that off loop Renaissance, as they called it. Our theater was on Halstead street and we were the bee's knees. We had. We started the theater with three Solid gold hits. You had to know me to get a ticket. It was. We were sold out. Reality set in shortly after that. But I think in the back of my mind, I always wanted to make movies. Yeah. But at the time we thought, I don't need to go to New York. It's a better theater here than in New York.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah, it was the same. I do stand up. So it was like, I started in Washington D.C. and like, you start in a tertiary scene, then at a certain point you have to go to New York or LA if you want to make your. Yeah. So like, you were working for about 10 years prior to like, I think in the 80s and early 90s, you were like auditioning all the time. You're on the fourth ever episode of Law and Order.

[William H. Macy]

I was in the first. Law and Order.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

The first.

[William H. Macy]

Aired it for the fourth. As the fourth.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

I mean, that's. That's an honor.

[William H. Macy]

I didn't know that until a couple of years ago when someone said you were in the pilot of Law and Order, which is how actors paid their rent in New York for many years. That and Spencer for hire.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Is that a demoralizing process? Like going out all the time? Like, you know, going to set for a couple days, just like being on that treadmill.

[William H. Macy]

Yes.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

Sucks. Yes. Auditioning is awful. If there were a better way, I'm sure someone would have thought of it. But it's soul sucking it's really rough of the good things that have happened to me right after my wife and daughters not having to audition is really up there.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Did that. That happened after Fargo.

[William H. Macy]

I would assume about a year or two after. Far.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Because you got the nomination.

[William H. Macy]

I don't know. I. Someone should have told me, just get an Oscar nomination, you can quit auditioning. I should have done it years earlier.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Do you know if you're gonna win or not? When you're the. You don't know. They don't tip you up.

[William H. Macy]

No.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Did you have, like, a prepared face for, like, if you didn't win?

[William H. Macy]

A speech? No.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

A face, like, if they say someone else's name, like, you don't want to be like.

[William H. Macy]

Yes.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Fuck yes.

[William H. Macy]

Because a couple of guys have.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

Or women.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

What do you do with your face? And the winner is.

[William H. Macy]

You pretend you're really happy that they won, because who won that year?

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It was Cuba.

[William H. Macy]

Cuba Gooding.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Oh, that was rough. That was a big year. I mean, your performance in Fargo, and I want to get into it a little bit, is just like, the man is in hell. Like, the man is just in literal hell.

[William H. Macy]

It's a genius script.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

How did you walk us through the auditioning for it? I mean, you'd been on ER at that point for a couple seasons, so. So. And you know, like, you were making a living. You know, you're paying the damn rent.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah, I'd moved to LA and I had enough juice that I was working all the time. Guest stars and that kind of thing.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah. And so how did you know that this. Because from what I understand, like, you kind of pushed it real hard. Yeah. Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

Dave Memmott taught me everything I know. I think I'm pretty good at reading scripts, and here's what I do, and I suggest it. I try to read them in one sitting. I kind of skip over the stage directions because they're nonsense, they don't help you. And if you can see the film in your mind's eye, you can read it. If you skip the stage directions, you can pretty much read it in the length of time the film will be. When you see it in your mind's eye, it's pretty easy to decide which is which are the good ones and which are the bad ones. Yeah. So I'm pretty good at reading scripts.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

And I read Fargo like, this American masterpiece.

[William H. Macy]

Yes. I was doing back. No. I was terrified that I wouldn't get it. It was perfect for me. I knew I. I knew how to do the thing. When I turned the Last page. I knew exactly how to do it. So they called me in to read for the detective role. And they said, that's real good. You want to read Jerry Lundegaard? And I said, yeah. And I went out in the hall and I read it, came back in, they said, that's real good. You want to work on it and come tomorrow? And I said, absolutely. I was up all night. Everybody I knew in LA was there. I probably memorized my entire part. The whole morning. Yeah. And I auditioned again. They said, that's real good. And then I found out they were auditioning in New York. So I. I got my Lutheran ass on an airplane and I crashed that audition. And I said, I really want this part. I'm scared you're gonna screw up your movie by not casting me.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

That's Mamet. That's like, don't be afraid of these pussies.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

That's like, that day. It seems like what he taught you to do is act, but also just like. Just like, this is all bullshit. Just like, if you want something, go for it.

[William H. Macy]

Yes. That was not a good idea, what I did. It worked. I don't recommend it. What did you do? Don't do that.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

What'd you say?

[William H. Macy]

I said, you're gonna fuck up your movie if you don't cast me. I think I went farther and told Ethan, who had a new puppy, that I would kill the dog if he didn't cast me. Thank God he laughed.

[Adam Friedland]

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[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

I'm sorry to break it to you, but they're fucking old.

[Adam Friedland]

And what they want mostly is to.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Remember anything, in fact.

[Adam Friedland]

But more specifically, to remember the good times.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

The times when they stormed the beaches of Normandy, when they put the flower.

[Adam Friedland]

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[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

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[Adam Friedland]

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[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

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[Adam Friedland]

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[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

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[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

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[William H. Macy]

By the way, Ethan Cohen has a show at the Atlantic Theater Company which I'm part of. It's called let's Love Run, Don't Walk. It's the funniest thing. It's magnificent.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

They're geniuses.

[William H. Macy]

They're geniuses. And Ethan is a stunning writer. It's so freaking funny.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

They are the best. I mean when I saw Serious Man. I know, I know you're not in it, but I went into a three month depression.

[William H. Macy]

Yes.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Because it's about just how. It's just beyond how bullshit life is. It's about how bullshit being Jewish is. And I just. My dad also went into a three month depression. The two of us were. I called him. I was like, I'm still fucking thinking about that movie.

[William H. Macy]

They really good at getting under your skin.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It's not about the emotions about what you do. Right. You said that before. So it's not a matter of like drilling into some past trauma. What it is is just approaching the work for what the assignment is. Right.

[William H. Macy]

That's a good way of putting it. That's our assignment.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah. So is that how you went into Lunder Garden? Obviously there was a dialect aspect of it too. There's like Minnesota. Nice. Which you were like fucking perfect at.

[Adam Friedland]

Not very nice.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

But.

[William H. Macy]

I come from the school. I'm not saying you don't have to do some research. If you're going to play a doctor, you got to learn how to do all that stuff. If it's an accent, you have to study. If there's some physicalization, you've got to memorize that. But that's. Those are externals, they're not acting. The acting is looking at each other and deciding what I'm going to do about what you just said and making that Decision. It's improvisatory. It's got to be improvisatory. Same words. I also believe. I don't believe in ad libbing. I say learn the script. Of course, when Dave Mamet writes a script, nobody has to be told to learn it. Exactly. Actors love his script so much, they hold themselves to a higher standard than Dave does. I've never heard him bark at someone about paraphrasing loving a line. As a matter of fact, I've heard him say, whoa, you keep saying that way. I must have wrote it wrong, really.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

So he's not precious at all?

[William H. Macy]

Not at all.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

That's very interesting, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So going for Pargo like you had that Oscar nomination, what does it feel like sitting there at the Academy Awards? You want to win?

[William H. Macy]

It seems like, dear God, you want to win?

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

You want to fucking win. Do you have to go to a party afterwards?

[William H. Macy]

Don't have to.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

But did you?

[William H. Macy]

No.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

You drove home.

[William H. Macy]

You only go to the party when you win. You only go when you win, and then it's a great party.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah, yeah.

[William H. Macy]

When you lose, the world is out of sync. And then you get home and you take off your monkey suit and there's your speech, which is so much better than any speech that was given.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

This is a great speech, but it's also best supporting. So you got to wrap it up fast because it's beginning of the show. That's the one where they start playing the music.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

And you have. In the speech, you have a guy that you deliberately don't think, Right.

[William H. Macy]

No.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Well, I would. If I was mad at someone, I would just forget to say their name. And, you know who you are. I have no idea what I'm saying.

[William H. Macy]

I think. And I hope you get to go to the Academy Awards sometime as a nominee, but I'll tell you, it's overwhelming. There's no time to think of clever stuff. Maybe if you're one of those guys, that's. If you're Meryl Streep and this is your 40th trip. But I was. I was a live wire. I was.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Oh, my God.

[William H. Macy]

I was cavalier about it on the way in, too, because I was directing a play here, and it's that whole Chicago attitude. I thought, you know, I got a play to do, fuck the Academy Awards, you know? So I didn't do much of a campaign.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Woody would never go, apparently.

[William H. Macy]

I know a lot of people that won't go, especially people that have gone.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It's kind of a baller move.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah. I think you get old enough and you think, I, I've done it. I, I gave it the office. I don't need to do this anymore. The Oscars, I don't know. The Emmys, I don't know. But there's a bunch of awards out there and. Yeah, sometimes you get exhausted.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah, I have to go to the Sag East. Yeah, it's in a tent.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

The food is cold.

[William H. Macy]

On the other hand, if you can hold it lightly, that's where you get to meet all your pals. It's fabulous.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It's a fun night.

[William H. Macy]

I've been to the Emmys a lot of times. I got two. And there were all of us for about three or four years. We'd see this, all of us, and Modern Family, Shameless and Modern Family was always there.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Do you talk shit to them?

[William H. Macy]

No, quite the opposite. When we, when we would lose, both tables would get up and we're all toasting each other while somebody else is walking up there.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

We're going, yeah. When did you meet Paul Thomas Anderson? How did that come to pass?

[William H. Macy]

They sent me Boogie Nights and the script they sent me was even more racy. I thought I was being punked and I called my agent. He said, no, this is legit. It's gotta have an R rating. That's in the contract. And then I. When I got back to town, I was working someplace. I went to see his film, Hard eight. And I thought, I'll read the newspaper for this guy.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Was he 25?

[William H. Macy]

Yes. It's a fabulous film. Jesus Christ. And that him doing Boogie Night Sign. And I've told the story a lot and I think Paul's okay with it. But I went there ready to put the full court press on him. How? I saw the through line, the way I was going to play it.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

I thought you were auditioning.

[William H. Macy]

And I said, hey, nice to meet you. And Paul started talking and he didn't stop for seven minutes. And he talked me all the way through the film the way he was going to shoot it. And at a point I realized, oh my God, he's auditioning. He's also 28.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

He's 28.

[William H. Macy]

He's 28. He said, I'm the guy who's going to make this decision. And I remember going, tell me more.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

You're an Academy Award nominated actor. I know, but it's a 28 year old.

[William H. Macy]

Fargo was out a year and a half before I started feeling the love. The love, yeah.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Well, speaking of flood lines, I mean, the thing is your character kind of kind of sets the insanity of that movie. And, like, the end of your character's arc just sets. The movie explodes, right?

[William H. Macy]

Yes, yes.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

And it's the centerpiece, kind of, of the Rise and the Fall. I like Barry Lyndon also. And they're both Rise and Fall movies. They're about a nimrod who nature pushes upwards and then begins to believe in their own genius. And then nature slaps them down.

[William H. Macy]

That's the output.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

But you famously, you steal the show a couple times. You have a couple lines in that movie that are just.

[William H. Macy]

I know what you're talking about.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Okay. The first is we miss the cum shot. Okay? So that scene is so intense, right. And there's no dialogue and everyone's gasping, and you break the tension. I mean, you. That is. It's so funny for that reason. What did you say? We missed the cub shot. Like, he came inside of her. Should we go to stock footage?

[William H. Macy]

Yeah. And everyone's stunned by the size of his member, I think. And Burt played that thing, you know, he was trying to pretend he was in charge, but he was. He had had a bomb go off in his face too, you know, and he said, yeah, that line.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

And then, of course, the famous flubbed line.

[William H. Macy]

So I.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It was a mistake, correct.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah. The wife is down in the driveway getting laid by all these guys. And Ricky J. Did this speech with me.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Legend.

[William H. Macy]

And I said, do you mind? My wife is down there with an ass in her cock. I can't concentrate right now. And he says, sorry, sorry, sorry. And Paul came and said, you said ass in her cock. And I said, I did. Sorry, sorry. And he said, let's go again. So we did the scene again, and he said, you said, assin or cock Again, I said, no, No, I didn't.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Were you fucking with him?

[William H. Macy]

No, I said, no, I didn't.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It was just a brain worm.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah. Brain fart. I didn't. I said, no, I didn't. He said. I said, check the tape. And he said, let's just go again. Turns out I did it the second time and the third time I did it correctly. And Paul. And this is why he's Paul Thomas Anderson, he decided there was some wisdom, there was some truth in the reason that I said it wrong.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

You were losing your mind. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's such an amazing story. I mean, how does a set work, right? Like, in a production that is so. I mean, does. Does. You've been a character actor for a lot of your career, right? And in particular, like, PTA's movies. Are so ensemble y. They're like Robert Altman's kind of movies. So there. There's so much chaos going on on camera. Like, how a is the set chaos? Like, how does one control that? Like, how does a filmmaker control that? And then you, as an actor, you're kind of like on a football team. If I had to assume you're like the nose tackle. Everyone has, like, a specialized kind of assignment. Like, how do a group of, you know, 11 people become one thing?

[William H. Macy]

That's what's glorious about this business. It's. Everyone thinks Hollywood, it's one thing. They're a bunch of liberal, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's not, as you well know, it's eclectic. It's a hodgepodge of people. And when you get all those people of all different backgrounds and political bents and race and creed and outlooks and ages, and they're all pulling in one direction, it's moving. They're all pulling in one direction for art. For a piece of art. It's really moving.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

What happens if just one guy just fucking sucks?

[William H. Macy]

If you've got a good director and good producer, they'll straighten him or her up. If you don't, you suffer through it.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It's got a fucking.

[William H. Macy]

One person can really cause a lot of trouble.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

You famously said that before. I think you said something about, I want to find the. That it's a major block for you. Is that worrying about the potential for someone else? I think you're. I'm pretty sure you're talking about Travolta and Wild Hogs. No joking. I'm joking. I'm joking.

[William H. Macy]

He was fabulous.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

I'm joking. I'm joking. Okay, okay.

[William H. Macy]

No, I think what you're referring to is when I did Shameless, that TV show, it ran 11 seasons and I finally got my 10,000 hours, if you know the phrase Malcolm Gladwell thing. Yeah. And one of the things that I learned, which I wish to God I could have learned earlier, was to do my job and let everybody do their job. I'm pretty sure I was a jerk at the beginning of my career. I thought I knew more than everybody else, and I took responsibility and worried about stuff that was not in my purview at all. And it causes chaos when someone does that.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Is there, like a key grip or a best boy that you'd like to apologize to?

[William H. Macy]

No, probably more directors and actors.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

And. So what would you say if John Travolta was here about your. Your behavior towards him on the set of Wild Hogs?

[William H. Macy]

You're stirring up the pot, aren't you?

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

I'm just teasing.

[William H. Macy]

I will tell you this about John Travolta, and this is unknown. There is a hierarchy on the set, and the number one on the call sheet has a responsibility. I mean, yeah, we need no ghost from the grave to tell us that shit flows downhill. So if you've got a bad producer, you know, a mean, disrespectful producer or a mean, disrespectful director or a mean, disrespectful number one on the call sheet, everyone's going to suffer. And the converse is true. If those guys are great or people, men or women, are respectful and kind and create a set that is safe, nobody will act up. It just. They set the tone. And John is great at that. He's always number one on the call sheet, and he just sets the tone of kindness and respect on the set.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Being on the set like a set, like Boogie Nights, it feels like it looks like when you're watching the movie, like these guys are having a blast. Even when the cameras weren't rolling, it had it. Was it like summer camp or something like that?

[William H. Macy]

There was a lot of joking and a lot of humor on that set because Paul is. He loves making movies. It shows.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

He's got a huge knowledge of every movie ever made and he loves actors. So he was delighted every second of the day. Even when we were chasing the sun or it was a tough scene, like that first scene. We rehearsed that thing forever.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

The tracking shot.

[William H. Macy]

Yes. And that makes producers very nervous because it's three o' clock in the afternoon and you haven't rolled a piece of film yet. But then when you do, the whole scene's done.

[Adam Friedland]

Burt Reynolds was.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

He was like. He was a curmudgeon on set. Like, notoriously.

[William H. Macy]

I made a joke one time, he said. Mentioned Smokey and the Bandit. And I said something snarky and everyone thought, he's gonna deck you.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

What did you say? What was the joke? I'm sorry?

[William H. Macy]

He said we were trying to decide how to do something. And he said, well, in smoking the Bandit, I did blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I said something to the effect of, well, we know how that turned out. And everyone goes, oh, my God, what happened? I laughed immediately, going, aren't I funny? I was just making. That was hyperbole. But Paul said, you came close to getting decked.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Apparently, Mark Wahlberg also says it's the one movie he regrets because he's very Catholic. Yeah, A movie about your Penis being enormous.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

What an idiot. If I was in a movie called the Biggest Penis of All Time.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

And I'm like, I really regret that.

[Adam Friedland]

No, no, it's.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It's like, oh, so embarrassing. That movie, about the biggest. I watched Magnolia within the last year, and I lost a parent. I hadn't seen it since I'd lost a parent. And my understanding is that Paul wrote it after his father passed away. But that movie was devastating after losing a parent. You played Donnie the Quiz Kid.

[William H. Macy]

Yes.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

And that character is also just in the vein of. You were kind of on a run of like, just these tragic men characters. But that performance of yours is just. It's brutal.

[William H. Macy]

Thank you so much.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It's a man reaching out for love.

[William H. Macy]

And I have a lot of love. I just don't know where to go.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

The braces. Getting braces to impress a hunk. That's. That just doesn't even know you're alive.

[William H. Macy]

Oh, my God. I have to see that. I haven't seen it in a long time. I want to see that again. My daughters just saw it.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It devastates you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a phenomenal movie. What was it like working with PCA the second time around?

[William H. Macy]

A joy. So many people from Boogie Nights had come on for the second one. So we knew each other. I mean, making a movie is like a pickup baseball team. It's scary. And you get there and it's your friends. Most people have this experience, you know, when you begin the. If you've got a big role, when you begin the second or third day or the second week, you go, oh, now I know how to do this. I understand this. If only we could go back and start again. So when it's people, you know, there's an ease about it. So it's a head start. I'm a big believer in rehearsal.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Was there someone in that crew that felt like top of the class? Was Phil Hoffman, like, working with him, were you like, this is. I mean, this is the greatest actor in the world?

[William H. Macy]

I think we all knew he was the best of us.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

What was it like, just in the flesh, watching him work? Like, what did he do with the words on the page that were just like, how did he. Was it magic or like.

[William H. Macy]

It was a bit magical? First of all, all I knew about him was Boogie Nights, you know, eating the pencil and hugging himself and so. So implosive.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

The boom pole where he's, like, basically ejaculating in his own pants and was.

[William H. Macy]

One of the fun I missed that part.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Well, that's right after we missed the cum shot. That's right before we missed the cum shot. Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah. He makes it look so natural. You have to sort of remind yourself, this is Phil. This is the same guy that did that other thing. He was magnificent. I think I really, I really fell in love with him after Magnolia. When I saw him do these other roles. I mean, talk about being a chameleon. And he, he didn't change his appearance that much. He was just a different guy in the same skin.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It was almost as if you had never seen him before. But he looked exactly the same.

[William H. Macy]

Yep, he had. He's a complicated man. All those characters live within him.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

Obviously we found out.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Do you get a better performance when you're like, with someone like that?

[William H. Macy]

I think so. I think so. I mean, if you want longevity in this business, you can't count on that. But boy, it's, you know, a rising tide lifts all boats and when the leads in the thing are just killing it and simple and honest and so in your face. So when they look at you, you're being looked at. It's. It's powerful. It's powerful medicine.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

You're just seeing, like, him go 99 yards with the ball.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah. Every time.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah. And you're like, I better block for this guy.

[Adam Friedland]

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[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

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[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

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[Adam Friedland]

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[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

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[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

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[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

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[William H. Macy]

You want to hear a great story?

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yes.

[William H. Macy]

It became clear that Shameless was going to run for a while. I think about the fourth or fifth season. We were selling like hotcakes. And Felicity, my wife, said, what are you going to do next season? What are you going to work on next season? I said, what do you mean? She said, well, you've got this lab. You get to act. Every day you get to act. All this stuff you're gonna do. You have a goal, something you want to work on. I married very well. And I said, good God, you're right. I hadn't thought about it. And it sounds trite and it sounds mundane, but one of the foundations of acting is to really look and really listen.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

And to a certain extent, really talk. Really talk to someone and to react.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

To what someone else is.

[William H. Macy]

No, you can let that go. You can let it go. You can let that go.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Okay. Write that down.

[William H. Macy]

But to really look and really listen. So I decided that next season I would really look and really listen. And it turns out that's not something you can make a decision, and then for the next 10 episodes or 12 episodes, you'll do it. You have to remind yourself before every single. Not only scene, every take, you got to remind yourself, because everything is trying to push your attention back on yourself. Everything. And this is what happened. I would do. We would do a take and I would go, bill, really look and really listen. So we do the second take, and I would really look at my fellow actors, and nine times out of ten, they would go, I'm sorry, you've got to cut. I have no idea what my line is. Sorry. It just went up on my lines.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

You're getting in their heads.

[William H. Macy]

They saw me really looking at them and they went, what's going on?

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Really? Yeah. So did they have to account for that or did they.

[William H. Macy]

I don't think they ever knew. It's because I was really looking at them rather than actor looking at them.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Right. As a guy. As the guy.

[William H. Macy]

As the guy. Yeah.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

As the guy.

[William H. Macy]

No, as me.

[Advertiser]

As you.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah. That's the difference. There is no character. This is another tenant of this thing.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

I like this. This makes a whole lot more sense than this. Like, yeah. When you were three, you pissed yourself in that. You have to bring this into your scene where you're playing some sort of Marvel superhero. It doesn't make any sense.

[William H. Macy]

I don't think it's possible either.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It's so cultish.

[William H. Macy]

I know for me, when everybody gets quiet and the camera starts rolling, I've got all I can do to get the lines out properly and to really look at someone and improvise with them. Throw them a curveball, see what they do, figure out what I'm going to do based on that. I can't think of another thing to do. So the idea of bringing forth the time Sparky got run over, I can't do that. Or even if you do it before the scene, it's gone.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

You're like a guy going to the office and you're doing your job and you're focusing on your fucking job.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah, it's a craft. Yeah, it's a. It's really a craft. If you do it well enough, it's an art. But ain't everything. Yeah. Character. That. The idea of character is a trick we play on the audience as a magician would, and the audience says, yes, trick me again.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah, that's. I think that that is like an articulation of.

[William H. Macy]

That's why I think that I.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

That is like the most down to earth articulation of the craft that I think I've ever heard a performer get.

[William H. Macy]

That's why Atlantic Theater Company, which has a school, they call it Practical aesthetics.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

With the emphasis being on practical.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Is it annoying to work with a guy that's just like fully method and he's like. And you're like eating lunch with him and you're like, come on, dude, come on.

[William H. Macy]

This is one of the things I learned in.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Stop it. We're not actually ninjas, okay?

[William H. Macy]

Yeah, right.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

We're playing ninjas at work. We're adults wearing costumes.

[William H. Macy]

President Lincoln, it's for you.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Who was like that? Like, is there anyone in particular that was like that?

[William H. Macy]

Oh, sure. It's, it's. Yeah, it's a. A common story that they want to be the character.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Brando is like that, right?

[William H. Macy]

Nah, I don't know.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Off.

[William H. Macy]

Off stage, I'm not sure. I've never heard that.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

He's the best.

[William H. Macy]

He's the best.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Who's been your hero throughout your career?

[William H. Macy]

In theory, Meryl Streep could be bad, but she's never been bad yet. She can do anything. I'd love to work with her if she's listening. The aforementioned Gene Hackman, a genius actor. Never saw him be bad. There's a whole bunch of them. Man, you guys are good. So acting's gotten better. I mean, it was just 75 years ago when to show that you were upset you went like this. That's not that long ago that that was acting. And look where we are now.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

There's a movie I really like with you that like, I don't know if anyone remembers, especially not these boys. They were. They were born after nine.

[Adam Friedland]

Eleven.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

You were? Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

That's crazy.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Anyway.

[William H. Macy]

My hemorrhoid just acted up. When he gave him a hemorrhoid? No, he's had it, but it just hurt when he said.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Why'd you hurt his hemorrhoid? The cooler.

[William H. Macy]

Fabulous.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

What a good movie.

[William H. Macy]

Fabulous.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

You kind of returned kind of to your broken man.

[William H. Macy]

And I'll tell you, they sent me the cooler and I thought, nope, if I do this, I'm just going to be Jerry Lundergard for the rest of my life. The hapless loser. I don't want to play that role.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Because in real life you're one of the coolest guys I've ever met.

[William H. Macy]

I think so too.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Maybe they named it that to trick you into thinking it's a cool guy. Yeah, yeah.

[William H. Macy]

God bless. Ed Pressman, who I'm pretty sure I had that right, was the producer. He wouldn't take no for an answer. And the director, they just hounded me and I'm glad I did it. And you guys should see it.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It's a movie about it.

[William H. Macy]

Not for me, for Maria Bello. She is just stunning.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It's a really touching love story there. Yeah. Like it's a movie about a casino.

[Adam Friedland]

Who hires a guy who's such a.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Such a loser that his loserdom actually like kind of radiates towards the guy at the table.

[William H. Macy]

And the casino has hired me. If someone's at blackjack and winning all.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

The time, you just bring him out. All I gotta do is sit there and have a drink. And then the guy starts losing.

[William H. Macy]

There's a scene of a guy throwing craps and he's winning every time. And I just walk by in my ill fitting suit. Yeah. Schlumped by and I just put my hand on the table and I walk away. And as soon as I walk away, you hear, oh.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Well, you're 75 now.

[William H. Macy]

I'm 75.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

You look fucking great.

[William H. Macy]

Ah, thanks.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

How'd you do it? No drinking, no smoking.

[William H. Macy]

I own a distillery. I don't own the whole thing. I. Woody Creek Distillers? Nope. I love to drink.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

You love to drink. Why do you look so good?

[William H. Macy]

Beats me. I think I can thank mom and dad and Every woman I've ever gone out with exercised like crazy, so I did it too. And Felicity is no exception. And then about 22 years ago, 24 years ago, 22 years ago, we hired a trainer in LA and we've had the same trainer for 22 years. I'm still working with her. So I work out. You work out, I work out. And I gave up meat maybe 10 years ago, and I'm cutting back on the drinking because it's hard on you.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Oh, I was gonna say, after this, we could. I know, it's.

[William H. Macy]

Oh, okay.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It's like, what time is it? It's noon.

[William H. Macy]

It's 12 o' clock somewhere.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Dude, it's 12 o'.

[Advertiser]

Clock.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It is literally probably 12 o' clock right now. Personally, like, I once. Once you're engaged with your work, I feel this way right now. Like, I don't really ever want to stop doing, like, working. I hear you, you know, and like, so what mod. What motivates you? Like, looking ahead, like, future challenges, like, you know, you've directed, of course you've written, but like, what. What's. Like what is. You know, what are you searching for? Like, what. Or. Or are you content, like, just drinking? In Colorado when I took off some.

[William H. Macy]

Time, it turns out I'm not good at that. I need some sort of creative challenge. It's the way I've always challenged myself in my life and I think I need that. Turns out I'm not as rich as I thought I was too.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

And what did she do?

[William H. Macy]

Who?

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Your. Your wife would. She bought a boat?

[William H. Macy]

No, no, no. She makes more money than I do. No, I just. I like. I like to live large. And you do? I do. I do.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

What, like what you. What, you're ostentatious gentleman?

[William H. Macy]

No, but we have, we still have a house in LA and one in. In Woody Creek, and that's expensive. And I like not looking at the check.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

I don't know how much money I have.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah, yeah, it's a. It's a great.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

They'll call me.

[William H. Macy]

Also, I've got two daughters and, you know, I'd love to make sure that they can do anything in their lives that they want to. I agree with Warren Buffett. I want to give them enough money, they can do anything they want to, but not enough to do nothing.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Right. I have a friend who's a billionaire son who just. He just reads that Carl Oven Nausgaard book and smokes cigarettes. He just has nothing to do. He just smokes cigarettes and reads My Struggle by Karl Hoven. It's really like. He's got great Knicks tickets.

[William H. Macy]

To answer your question, though, I do want to. I still like acting and I feel like I recently got pretty good at it. You know, I put down a lot of baggage that I carry around. Yeah, I think I can do it. And there's always an altercocker in any film. So I think there's work for me. Do I want to carry a film?

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Do you want a Paris Texas?

[William H. Macy]

Yeah. Yeah. I did a one called Happy Texas. Have you ever seen that great movie the Gay.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

The gay. The guys on the lam and they have to act like gay guys.

[William H. Macy]

And then you're the sheriff and I'm the sheriff. Right.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

And you're gay.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah. And I fall in love with one.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

What do you make of, like the shift in the industry? So obviously you were on a television series for 11 years. Right. It seems like there's been a shift towards that medium.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah. TV's where it's at.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Do you. Do you.

[William H. Macy]

Streaming.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Do you miss the movies? Yeah, I miss them.

[William H. Macy]

Me too.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Remember that when they were about people.

[William H. Macy]

They'Re still about people.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Sometimes they're just trying to engage with other movies. The movies, yeah.

[William H. Macy]

It seems that they wanted. Comic books are the only thing that they can guarantee. But there's a shift. It's recent. Last couple of years, I've done a lot of indies and they're. Sometimes they just four wall them and put them in theaters, but they're a bunch of them. I've been involved with where they're going into theaters and I think they might succeed. I've got this one that's coming out any minute and Train Dreams, no Soul on Fire.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Okay.

[William H. Macy]

I think they're going to put it in a thousand theaters. Who?

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Who made it? You want to talk about it?

[William H. Macy]

It was an indie.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It was an indie.

[William H. Macy]

Indie. I'm behind it. I think they might have sold it, but I don't know who they sold it to.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Anyway, Saudi Arabia.

[William H. Macy]

I'm off to St. Louis next week for the opening and I'll find out a lot more. Lovely film.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

What is it about?

[William H. Macy]

It's a true story about this guy who as a child was burned over 90% of his body. 92%. He should have died, but he didn't. And I played Jack Buck, the.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Cardinals announcer.

[William H. Macy]

Cardinals announcer. And Joe Buck's dad. Yep. I met Joe and I did a lookalike with Jack. You know that white hair. I did that. And it was really weird when I met the family. I was on set the first Time they saw me and here I am dressed and looking like their father. But they were very cool about.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

That's your second announcer role, right? Seabiscuit. You're the TikTok. You're TikTok. Yeah. You're the guy with the sound effects. I know.

[William H. Macy]

That's a great role. That guy was.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

You're talking a mile a minute in that movie.

[William H. Macy]

Yes. I practiced it so I could do it really fast and I did about three takes and Gary said, great, it's great, it's great. What if you do one really fast.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

And that was the fastest?

[William H. Macy]

What are you talking about? That's as fast as my tongue can work.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

So you got. You got hooked on methamphetamine on that set.

[William H. Macy]

No, it's before that. I should have.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

Should have started my meth habit earlier.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah, yeah. You made a. You directed a sex road trip comedy with Alexandra Daddario and Kate Upton.

[William H. Macy]

All right, enough said. No, it was, you know, it's about.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

What Was that movie?

[William H. Macy]

Two women in their early to mid-20s who are having a crisis. So who better to direct it than a 70 year old man?

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah, I bet it was. Were you in pajamas the entire time?

[William H. Macy]

I should have been.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Were you in a bathrobe?

[William H. Macy]

They did great. And it's got moments in it, but I did not do that script justice as a director. I've done three of them.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Eyes up here, maybe.

[William H. Macy]

I threw my hat in the ring, by the way. Right. I threw my hat in the ring to direct another one. So I haven't learned my lesson.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Are the boobs gonna be even bigger?

[William H. Macy]

Were there boobs in that?

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Oh, what a professional. Ladies and gentlemen. What a professional.

[William H. Macy]

They were stunning women. Boy, everywhere we went, it was like Moses parting the sea. Crickets would stop chirping when they came on set. Birds were so, so fine looking and really delightful. Both women, we had a good amount of fun on the thing.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

I want to talk about your two projects that are coming up. You're in Edgar Wright's new picture the Running man, which I understand is a Stephen King adaptation.

[William H. Macy]

He wrote the book and there was the Schwarzenegger version of it. And for this one, they went back to the book and it's big. We shot it in London. I've got two scenes.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It's like a Most Dangerous Game kind of thing.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah, yeah. It's a dystopian future. The government, which looks like a studio, it's more television than government runs everything. And there's this game. They choose a guy as the running man. He starts going. If he gets. If he can stay alive for a certain amount of time, they give him a million dollars. But anyone can kill him.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Oh, anyone.

[William H. Macy]

Anyone.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Oh, wow. It's like the Game Mafia.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

And you, you happen to be best.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Friends with Arnold Schwarzenegger? No, I got that one wrong. So now that you're working out, do you think you could go toe to toe.

[William H. Macy]

With Arnold?

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah, maybe. Maybe enter a couple competitions? Maybe.

[William H. Macy]

I would do it if it was he and I, just the two of you?

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Just the two of us. He's amazing. I love him so much.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

I can't. My father and I. One of the biggest categories of pictures that I grew up watching were just the neck snap genre. The genre where the guy just kills someone by snapping them. Their neck. So I've seen pretty much every Seagal, John Clavin, Dem.

[William H. Macy]

You know, they make it look so easy. They just walk up and go. And that's it.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

That could be a good goal for you moving forward. You know, at 75, you haven't done one neck snap.

[William H. Macy]

No.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah. Yeah. Or have you ever said, secure the perimeter?

[William H. Macy]

Nope. Never. Lock it down. No, no.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

What's your favorite line you've ever delivered in any movie?

[William H. Macy]

It's not mine. It's Mamet who went insane. I did Air Force One and I say, let me save him. He's the President, for God's sake. Dave still quotes that to me.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

No, it's just. Even your delivery makes it funny. He's the President for guns. That movie is awesome.

[William H. Macy]

This is get off. This is while Harrison's on the back of the plane going like this.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

You know, the president is hanging off.

[William H. Macy]

Let me save him.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It's the President. Well, we should talk about train dreams.

[William H. Macy]

Yes.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

I love Westerns. I'd love to do a Western. But they're all just, to coin a phrase, horseshit. Because all the Westerns that come out now are based on Western movies, John Ford movies. And the real west, the best ever is best. It's. It's fascinating. The shootout at the O.K. corral. You ready for this? Two guys got shot, got killed.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

Four guys. Five guys got shot. And that lives in lore. They've written poems and songs, written movies about them. That's the biggest shootout in the West. I read a Western script the other day. There's 14 bodies on page three just blaming away.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

It's like Hong Kong action.

[William H. Macy]

And I've shot off my mouth a lot about it, but I think all this bullshit, untruthful gunplay and Violence in movies is hurting us as a culture because kids see it. And, you know, this whole thing, we used to say, hey, don't blame. I'm just the messenger. This is what America's like. That's not what America's like. It's horseshit. And it really offends me. I just think, tell the truth about it. Just tell the truth.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

And that's kind of what. The new picture that you're in with Joel Edgerton.

[William H. Macy]

Yes.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah. It's about.

[William H. Macy]

This couldn't be quieter and simpler.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

What I understand is your character is kind of like a poet and a philosopher. Kind of like.

[William H. Macy]

It's based on a novella. It's very quiet.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

I've read the book, the Dennis Johnson book.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

I read it because it was short.

[William H. Macy]

This is pretty close.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

I read it on vacation.

[William H. Macy]

This is pretty close. He's an amazing writer, and they got his voice in this thing, and he's a lot. Joel is great in it. And everybody. It's quiet. It's so moving. We were in Toronto. Were you in Toronto, or you just saw that thing?

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

I. I heard something where you spoke about it.

[William H. Macy]

We watched the thing. I hadn't seen it completed. I had seen a cut. And I'm watching it in the big theater with a lot of people, and I was a mess. I was weeping like a baby. And then they go, okay, time to get up on stage now.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

And I was still. Really.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Was that the first time you'd seen it finished? Yeah, finished it.

[William H. Macy]

And it's different when you see it with a bunch of people. As we in a theater. Yeah, theaters, man.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Especially with comedy. Like seeing an audience laugh at it, at a joke. Especially if you made something and you've. That you've. You, like, deliberately done a cut, like an edit, like, it just. It feels so satisfying. It feels more satisfying than doing stand up. For me, it's like seeing an audience, something you've totally agreed. You're watching from the side, you're not watching from. From the stage. You can't really. With the lights, you can't really see. See, I mean, you know that from the theater.

[William H. Macy]

Well, the way I put it is, I've written a bunch of stuff and a lot. Almost all of it has humor in it. And when you sit at your typewriter, that's how far right back I go. And you write a joke, and it goes from there to a producer who steps on it, and then it goes to a director, and then it goes to production designer, then it goes to the actors. And if that joke is still funny after all those people have handled it. That's a good joke. That's the highest high I've ever had in this business.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Getting a pop feels good. Oh, getting a pop feels good. We missed the cum shot.

[William H. Macy]

Yes.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Guys, thank you for your time.

[William H. Macy]

Thanks.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

William H. Macy.

[William H. Macy]

I've loved this.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

You've loved it.

[William H. Macy]

Yeah. You could do this professionally. This was a great fun.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Oh, you do? Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

Sorry.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, no.

[Host (possibly Theo Von)]

Yeah.

[William H. Macy]

Sam.