Finding Your Authentic Path in Sales

Summary

Summary of "Finding Your Authentic Path in Sales" – The Advanced Selling Podcast

Episode Information:

• Title: Finding Your Authentic Path in Sales
• Hosts: Bill Caskey and Bryan Neale
• Release Date: January 27, 2025

---

Introduction to Authenticity in Sales

In the January 27, 2025 episode of The Advanced Selling Podcast, hosts Bill Caskey and Bryan Neale delve into the profound topic of "Finding Your Authentic Path in Sales." Moving beyond traditional sales tactics, they explore the essence of personal integrity and authenticity in building a successful sales career.

The Big Illusion: Conforming vs. Authenticity

Bryan Neale introduces the concept inspired by Jim Murphy's book, Inner Excellence, which emphasizes the pivotal role of mindset and detachment in personal fulfillment.

“The big illusion is that once we be more like the world wants us to be, we will be fulfilled and happy.”
(04:20) – Bryan Neale

This idea challenges the common belief that adhering to societal expectations leads to happiness. Instead, it posits that true fulfillment comes from pursuing one's authentic self rather than conforming to external demands.

Real-World Example: Brad Stevens' Journey

Bryan recounts the inspiring story of Brad Stevens, illustrating the rewards of following one's authentic path despite external skepticism.

“He was a Lily salesperson making good money. And he didn't like it. He was... [he] quit and became the head coach of the Boston Celtics.”
(12:27) – Bryan Neale

This narrative serves as a testament to the importance of aligning one's career with personal passions, even when it means departing from a lucrative and stable position.

Integrity in Sales: Challenges and Solutions

Bryan and Bill discuss the common pressure in sales environments to act inauthentically, often leading professionals to feel like "sheep" or forced to wear a "mask."

“So many of our listeners almost tell us they secretly listen, like, well, my boss wouldn't like this podcast because, you guys... my boss wouldn't go for that.”
(14:23) – Bill Caskey

They emphasize the necessity of maintaining personal integrity and authenticity, encouraging sales professionals to resist conforming to practices that conflict with their values.

Personal Stories and Reflections

Bill Caskey shares his personal journey of overcoming ingrained sales behaviors that conflicted with his true self.

“I was programmed at Procter and Gamble to not take no for an answer... But what was funny was the mental programming that I had was out of line with what was in my head, heart, and soul.”
(16:12) – Bill Caskey

This reflection highlights the internal struggle between external training and personal authenticity, underscoring the podcast's central theme of self-alignment.

Empowering Listeners: Choosing Your Path

Both hosts passionately advocate for listeners to take control of their career paths by prioritizing personal values over societal or organizational expectations.

“You do have a say in this. You don't think you do and you do. In fact, I would argue in this world nowadays, you have all the say...”
(18:14) – Bill Caskey

“Don't make it about right and wrong with this. This is all personal preference...”
(19:51) – Bill Caskey

They encourage listeners to embrace their choices, whether it means finding a new workplace that aligns with their values or redefining success on their own terms.

Conclusion: Embracing Authentic Success

The episode concludes with a strong message of empowerment, urging sales professionals to seek authenticity as the foundation of their success.

“Once you do that, there's no work anymore. It's easy. It's just so simple.”
(20:32) – Bill Caskey

Both Bill and Bryan reinforce the idea that aligning one's career with personal integrity not only leads to fulfillment but also to greater professional success.

---

Key Takeaways:

• Authenticity Over Conformity: True fulfillment in sales comes from being authentic rather than conforming to external expectations.
• Personal Integrity: Maintaining personal values is crucial, even in high-pressure sales environments.
• Empowerment: Sales professionals have the agency to choose paths that align with their true selves, leading to sustainable success.
• Inspirational Examples: Stories like Brad Stevens illustrate the long-term benefits of pursuing one's passions over immediate rewards.

This episode serves as a compelling guide for sales professionals aspiring to integrate their personal values with their careers, fostering both personal satisfaction and professional achievement.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Welcome back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast, sales podcast history. I'm Bill Caskey.

[A]

I'm Brian Neal here.

[B]

We are so delighted and we revere. Is that the right word, Reverend? We have reverence for the time you spend listening to us and we do not take that lightly. We like to. We. We record something every week and we release it on Monday morning. So if you're new to the show, that's when the new release is. And we really appreciate any kind of comments you can make on LinkedIn. We'd love it if you did a quick review of the podcast on your favorite podcatcher or Spotify itunes. We'd love that. It really helps us beat the algorithm.

[A]

I saw someone printed the algorithm. Like, I didn't know you could do that. I don't know. It was someone that was talking about, well, I'm testing the algorithm. They were showing they had like some document, you know, some documentation. The algorithm. Like, okay, really mystery.

[B]

I thought it was.

[A]

That's the whole point. It's. If it's public, it's not an algorithm anymore, is it? Right. Isn't that part of the deal? So I heard. I've heard something. It's January of 2025. We're recording this. We're not supposed to timestamp things, but it's for perspective because I want them to ask you. Bill, I heard a new term that I've never ever heard relative to New Year's resolutions. Are you a resolution guy? No, I'm not really either. It's called Quitters Day. Have you seen this? Quitters Day. It's on commercials and people are talking about it. I guess there's some day, January 10th, that at that point, like 80 of people have given up on their New Year's resolutions. So I a wanted to know if you've ever heard of Quitters Day, because I thought, you know, Quitters Day could be a lot of other things. You know, it could be good or bad. People quit drinking or quit smoking or whatever, quit doing drugs or they, you know, quit their marriage or quit school. You know, I've heard of quiet quitting. Quiet quitting.

[B]

That's a whole different kind of quitting.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. There's another. I never heard that either. And I don't know if it was just made up by this company for this commercial or probably something in the past, but it, it caught my eye. And I wonder if you'd ever heard of it before, because I'm like, what is that? Quitters Day. Never heard of it. It's a little demeaning, isn't it? I mean, good gosh, it's not like, you know, by the 10th you just quit and you're done, you know.

[B]

Well, there's a lot of that around resolutions, though. Every other article is why people quit and how long it's going to be. You're not going to make it.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

Why get it.

[A]

Why resolutions don't work.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, that's. Thanks for the encouragement.

[A]

I know. Very, very charming. Thank you very much. So if you're, yeah. New Year's resolution person, you got past National Quitters Day. Congratulations. Happy for you.

[B]

Hey, if you're interested in the ASP Insider program, we have put on the website a new video that walks through exactly how it works. And also I've got down there all of the next 11 months of training. So every topic, every month is laid out with a brief narrative and some bullet points of what you're going to learn because we want to get that out at the first of the year. So if you have not joined Insider, we'd love for you to. There will probably be a price adjustment on Insider near the end of January or 1st of February. I don't have the exact date. So if you want to get in at the old fee at the old tuition, make sure you go to advancedellingpodcast.com insider. We've had a lot of new people here in the last couple weeks, so love to get you in before the price increase. It's not the price will double or go from 47 to 97. So you can still get in. But if you're interested for this year that this would be the time to.

[A]

Do it, that's a strong, strong recommendation on that. That's the best bang for the buck you're going to get in this world, guaranteed.

[B]

All right. Topic A couple weeks ago, there was a football game. The packers, the Green Bay Packers, U.S. football, American football played the Philadelphia Eagles. And on the bench at near the end of the game, there was a player named Antonio Brown who was sitting there reading a book. And the color comment, I think Tom Brady was doing the game and they were talking about how odd it was for a dude like that to be reading a book during a game, sitting on the bench. Well, it turns out that Antonio Brown is a devout follower of the person who wrote the book. His name is Jim Murphy. The book is called Inner Excellence. And it's really a book not too dissimilar to what we talk about here on the Podcast about how our mind governs everything, how we need to. He talks a lot about a detach. Detachment in there. I don't hear a lot of people talking about detachment, but he. It's like a center point of his work. And so I got into the book a little bit. I haven't read the book, but I listened to some of his description of it and he said something that I thought would be a good topic. So here we go. It's a lot of preamble there to the topic. The topic is he said the big. He. He didn't call it the big illusion. I'm calling it the big illusion so we don't get trouble copyright. The big illusion is that once we be more like the world wants us to be, we will be fulfilled and happy. And he talks about it from the standpoint of. Is a lot of people have a lot of expectations of who they want us to be. And unfortunately, what happens is we go down their path and we forget our path. And then we wake up at 30, 40 years old and we're always in service to something else or some other dream that somebody else has. And we've lost a lot of that for ourselves. We're not aware of what we want, what our purpose for being here is. He has a spiritual component to this, which. Which I happen to agree with. But. But. So I, I thought that was a good topic because when you work for a company, the company wants you to be a certain way and some of those attributes are probably good. Sometimes they want you to be in a way that it. That conflicts and you're. And you become out of integrity. And I think that this whole topic is worth it to talk about. I. I didn't say much to you about it the pre show, but what do you think?

[A]

Great topic. Need to fact check a little bit here just to adjust the intro. Player's name is AJ Brown, not Antonio Brown. I'm sorry, Antonio Brown's a very different person.

[B]

That's a B.

[A]

That's A.B. yeah, this is A.J. a.J. Brown. No, no, we're good. That's not. That's not relevant to the topic. But people. I know people are listening to this and they're gonna go, that's not Antonio Brown.

[B]

No, no, that's right. I follow A Antonio.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

He's interesting and he's funny. He's actually.

[A]

He is, yeah. A.J. brown plays for the Eagles, so. But that's not part of the topic, but I want to clarify that.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

So next is, you know, what does this Mean, I. I told you, you know, you have these moments in your life. I had one this morning, driving in to work today, and I love what I do. I've got two jobs. Love them both. Really happy. And, you know, you get a little older, you start to think, like, okay, you know, what would it be like to just, like, you know, live out in the woods and be, you know, away from all this stuff? You know what I mean? I was thinking. My daughter started her job, and she's awesome. She's a teacher, and she was, like, stressed out about going to work, and da, da, da. She's in that phase of life. We're like, you know, got to get her first apartment. There's all this stress. And I'm like, you know. And a song came on. See if you know the song, Bill. I'm going to fade it up here for you. So.

[B]

There'S a storm across the valley. Bill knows it.

[A]

John Denver.

[B]

Great song.

[A]

It's called Back Home Again.

[B]

Just lost our podcast, but that's.

[A]

Well, they're gonna sue us. John N. Estates. Yeah. Or the young listeners. It's a great song. And, you know, if you like country music, it's a good little country kind of diddy. But I've been driving in, listening to that song. I've never listened to it so deeply, the words. And I'm like, man, it's about. He talks about this cabin being his old friend, and he just. And he's just cooking supper, and he's just out and just being. And I was like, oh, that sounds so appealing, doesn't it? You know, and it's a real interesting thing to vet through, like, you love what you do, and you do these things, and when what you do comes with. So if you're in sales or sales podcast, what has come with that in the past was constant growth, achievement. I mean, it's what. Right? And, you know, you know, being a. Being an artist. I don't even know if that sometimes you. You. There's a lot of, like, troubled artists. They. They. They. They're never happy because they don't like their stuff. And so it just got me thinking about the topic before you even brought it up. Just about if I just wanted to do. Because people, like, why would you give your business up? You know, I'm like, well, I sold my business and sold my house and moved out, you know, onto a lake. Why would you do that? It was, you know, this societal thing comes across, you know, why would you stop your podcast?

[B]

Bill, did you hear what Brian Neil did, right?

[A]

You guys walked it.

[B]

You believe.

[A]

Shut down the advanced selling podcast.

[B]

He went crazy.

[A]

Yeah. Bill Caskey left Hardy's, like, can you believe it? You guys have lost their minds. A call back. Sorry, call back from episode last. Anyway, so I'm just sort of, again, like, just verbally processing this whole idea that you're bringing up before I delve into it. But it really hit me this morning like, that. Well, feel like, yeah, that's a.

[B]

As you get older, you'll have more of those feelings. Maybe it's not unplugging from the grid, maybe it's something else. But. But those things will start to come through your mind as you get. As you reach into your, you know, late 50s. And I know that hits me a lot, and it's. Sometimes it's good because you don't want to take action, sell everything and move, because then you'll end up three months later. It's like, that was a mistake. You're a social guy. How's that going to work? Yeah, but it might be. You know what? We need to plan some more retreats.

[A]

Something more.

[B]

Once a month, we want to go on a silence retreat, or we want to go to someplace where we can hike and be in nature. I mean, it's. If that feeling is inside of us, it needs to find a way out. Or if we keep it down, to me, that's when we start getting irritated and depressed and we resent the world because the world didn't let me go do my retreat. Oh, no, the world. All for you. The world's paying no attention to you, by the way. So I think those. Those thoughts are signals that something is. Is. Could be tweaked.

[A]

Yes. And there's a book called Seasons of a Man's Life. It's really old book written in the 20 seasons of a man's life. And I don't. The book itself, the concept to me, is more important than the book. What's in it. But Seasons of a Man's life goes through 20s. 30s. For that's how I think about it. And most people have a similar path. 20s, you're trying to. Like you're lost, right. You're wandering.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

30S, you kind of find it. Settle 40s, you get productive. 50s, you start to realize everything you just did doesn't really matter and that. I'm not in 60s yet. You are. So then you're saying this, like, yeah, this stuff kind of doesn't.

[B]

How dare you exactly reveal.

[A]

We. It was three podcasts ago. We revealed it. So Anyway, I think that's a. That's a. That's. It's okay to search for this stuff even if you're young. I. That's the one thing for you listeners who are in your 20s and 30s. You don't have to wait. Your path might not be like Bill's saying, like immediate. You have to drastically change. But I loved what you said, Bill. If it's in there, you need to let it out. And I think of career change for people. There's some salesperson who's listening to this podcast, trying to be a great salesperson who really wants to go teach economics and be a football coach. Guaranteed there's someone. And they won't because, well, it doesn't pay enough. Well, it's not as, you know, it's not as cool to say at the, at the country club.

[B]

So Brad's. It's the Brad Stevens story. Yes, he was Lily. Brad Stevens is a general. Is he a president of Boston?

[A]

I don't know his title, but he runs the operation Pascal Ops for the Celtics.

[B]

Yeah. And Brad Stevens was a famous coach Butler. He took the Butler University here in Indianapolis to two Final Fours. And he was a Lily salesperson making good money. And he didn't like it. He was. Now this, this dude was 27 or 26, and he decided to take a job at Butler University as an. As an unpaid coach, assistant coach, the jv or. I don't know, it was some lowly. But he, but he loved coaching. He loved basketball. He played in high school and played in college, and he just loved the sport and didn't like what he was doing in the pharmaceutical business and quit. And people around him thought he was literally nuts. They thought he had. He was on some kind of drugs or medication because of this ridiculous thing. And a month later, one of the paid assistant coaches left. He got that job. Two years later, he was the head coach. Three years later, five years later, he was a head coach of the Boston Celtics. Now he runs the whole Boston Celtic organization. Had he stayed at Lily. Nothing wrong with Lily. He wouldn't. You would not have heard of him.

[A]

He'd be a dm, A district manager in Des Moines, Iowa. He would.

[B]

He would.

[A]

And he probably would have been wondering, what if? What if I would have.

[B]

Yeah. And now. And now I can't because it's too late. Because I have a family and a kid, obligations and a mortgage. I can't do that now. Well, maybe, maybe not.

[A]

I know. I know. And I think I'm going to bring it Back a little more. Like, not tactical, but like, even when in our work, I feel like there's a lot of coaching and training and companies tell sales people to do things that are out of integrity with them, and the sales teams don't feel like they can do anything different. And so they, you know, what do you call it? Sheep. You're sheep person. You're a shill. A sheep. You're like, got a mask, you know, you're not being your. Your authentic self.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I say screw that. You know, so. So many. So many of our listeners almost tell us they secretly listen, like, well, my boss wouldn't like this podcast because, you guys, you know, detachment. My boss wouldn't go for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yet I'm running president's club every. Every year. But I'm afraid to tell my boss that I'm doing it because, you know, because that. Listen to the advanced selling podcast. It's like, what?

[B]

Well, that's. Anything else. I'm sorry, go ahead, go ahead.

[A]

I was done. I was done.

[B]

It's like anything else that we come across in our lives, like maybe this podcast or working with us that goes against the orthodoxy of how we've been trained to see the world, we'll meet up with resistance first. It'll meet up with resistance inside yourself. Once you get past that, you got the whole world now. Who's going to resist? Whether it's your manager or boss or friends, it's like, oh, I would. Oh, why would you ever say that? I mean, we hear that all the time, and then the person uses it and says it, and good things start to blossom from it and. But their friends are still saying, oh, I would never say that. So they're not looking at the end result. They're looking at the thing that goes against everything they've ever learned about selling or managing or whatever. And so you've gotta. You've got to figure out a way to battle the inner resistance and then the outer resistance, because they're both at work. And I. I think it's more important we battle the inner than the outer, because the outer is always gonna. They're gonna. It's never going to be enough for the external world. You. You and I will never be enough. So we have to be enough internally, to ourselves.

[A]

That's fantastic. You may not remember this. I had this happen, this very thing when I first started working for you. 1997, we went up to see a guy named John Hurth outside of Chicago. We actually went to Merrillville. If I Remember it?

[B]

Right.

[A]

To have lunch with him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was programmed at Procter and Gamble to not take no for an answer. Programmed. Yet I was so out of integrity with who I was with that I was so. I was miserable. Miserable. I hated my job. Hated it. Love the company, hated my job. And then I met you guys, and you're telling me that no, if it. You know, you get to a certain point, if the person doesn't want to buy your stuff and you say, okay, let them go. And I'm like, yeah, but. And my old. My programming came in. But what was funny was the mental programming that I had was out of line with what was in my head, heart and soul. But that's what I wouldn't let go of.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Right. That's what I wouldn't let go of. You guys were trying to help me, and I. I couldn't. I remember being. So. I'm like. At some point, I was like, these guys are freaking nuts. These are. These guys don't know what they're doing. But you did. And thank God I stayed in there and found my way into it because it's so much better on the other side of that. So.

[B]

But isn't that the. That's the ultimate paradox there, that we know something's not right and we're exposed to what's right, and then we say, oh, well, that's not it. I mean, that doesn't look like what I need, because my beliefs, my orth, my. My traditions. And what do you call not orthodoxy, but there's another word for just. My paradigm is such that if it's outside the paradigm, I don't even recognize it. It's like, what. What was that thing that just went by? That's the thing that can save your life. Oh, no, no. That just went by. I can't save my life. So. So yeah, let's get tactical here. So if you're in a mode where something's not working, I. We always say, check your thinking. Check your thinking. And if that thinking is not. Is not you, if you've been. If that thinking has been infused upon you by either parents or guardians or your first boss or manager or current manager, you've got to really have a come to Jesus meeting there and say, is this the way I want the rest of my life to look? Am I going to continue to go down this path of being who the world wants me to be? Or do I have a say in this?

[A]

You do have a say.

[B]

You do.

[A]

And you don't Think you do and you do. In fact, I would argue in this world nowadays, you have all the say with the baby boomers retiring and the, you know, you have all to say, this is a can of worms. So I don't want to go too far into this, but I want to relate it this topic to this, this whole work from home bit. You know, people are looking at as a moralistic thing that companies are moralistically wrong when they don't let people work from home. No one cares if a business owner. You're a business owner, I'm a business owner. We can run this thing however we want. And if we want to make people come into the office, we can. And if someone wants to work from home, they won't work here and they can leave. There's no moralistic thing to it. And so what I'm trying to it like stamp here is you do have a choice, but the choice isn't for the other thing to change outside you. That's why when Bill said earlier, the inside's better than the outside. So you can say, well, I think it's crazy that they don't. This. My company that I work at doesn't let us work from home anymore. And that's. And I'm gonna just go somewhere else, man. Go somewhere else. That's you.

[B]

It's easy to go somewhere else today.

[A]

It really is.

[B]

It was hard.

[A]

And if you don't go somewhere else, you're staying in this out of integrity thing. If it's an integrity like. Or integrity. But whatever it is, say your paradigm. Paradigm that you're, you're one of your paradigms. You want to have freedom in your work and be able. That's one of your paradigms. And that group where you're sitting at doesn't do that anymore. Go find a group that does.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Don't make this about them. It's about you.

[B]

Don't make it about right. And like you say, a moral judgment. Right and wrong with this.

[A]

Right.

[B]

This is, it's just, it's all personal preference and the guy who signs the checks gets to sign the orders. And yes, if you don't like that, then figure out a way to get in a position where you're the one signing the checks, the front of the checks.

[A]

Bravo. You have so much choice. You have so much choice. And I think that's a good thing to take away from today's episode is recognizing that. And when you feel like you don't. I had a choice to listen to what Bill and John Hur were saying. And in that moment, I remember like it was yesterday. I could even visualize John looking at me, and I thought, this guy is freaking crazy. I had a choice to either say, you know what, Bill? It's been nice meeting you. This just doesn't align. But it, at its core, it did align.

[B]

It did? Yeah.

[A]

I just had to work my way through the mental side of. Of it. And so I encourage you, if you're listening to this, to stay in it, find your way into these things that align with who you are. Once you do that, there's not work anymore. It's easy. It's just so simple.

[B]

It is, yeah. Yeah. We should do a topic on. On that whole. How do. How do we make what we do not work? How do we make it work and it have not be and not be work? Okay, whatever. I don't know.

[A]

I got it. Work, not work.

[B]

All right. I'm going to Hardee's brother. I'll see it's I got time or 10.

[A]

So don't leave this time, though.

[B]

Stay with it.

[A]

They're waiting for you. I can't wait to you pulling. Hey, the guy that left last week, we were after 10. He's back. Let's take care of him this time. Let's take it.

[B]

Sausage biscuits ready? Okay. See you next time.

[A]

Bye.