The Missing Metrics of Modern Selling

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Missing Metrics of Modern Selling

Episode Title: The Missing Metrics of Modern Selling
Release Date: February 17, 2025
Hosts: Bill Caskey and Bryan Neale
Podcast: The Advanced Selling Podcast

---

Introduction to the Episode

In this episode of The Advanced Selling Podcast, hosts Bill Caskey and Bryan Neale delve into a critical yet often overlooked aspect of sales success: the essential metrics that modern sales professionals need to track. Moving beyond traditional sales numbers, Bill and Bryan explore how understanding and leveraging these metrics can significantly enhance sales performance and business growth.

The Importance of Business Metrics in Sales

Bill introduces the episode by emphasizing the significance of knowing the "math of your business." He asserts that many salespeople and leaders overlook fundamental metrics, leading to inefficiencies and missed opportunities.

Bill (05:03):
"I know how important numbers are to you and your business. This topic is something like, what's the math of your business?"

Bryan echoes this sentiment, highlighting that without a solid grasp of these numbers, sales professionals cannot effectively measure or improve their performance.

Traditional vs. Modern Sales Metrics

The discussion begins by contrasting traditional sales metrics with the needs of the modern sales environment. Traditionally, sales metrics focused on:

1. Number of Cold Calls: Tracking how many unsolicited contacts a salesperson makes.
2. Proposals Made: Counting the number of presentations or proposals sent to potential clients.
3. Closing Percentage: Measuring the ratio of closed deals to proposals made.

Bryan (08:17):
"There were really only three numbers, which are still in the ballpark in terms of like, cold call today is not necessarily a cold call..."

However, in today's digital and data-rich landscape, these metrics are no longer sufficient. The hosts argue for a more nuanced approach to tracking sales performance.

Missing Metrics in Modern Selling

Bill and Bryan identify several "missing metrics" that are crucial for contemporary sales success:

1. Inbound Lead Tracking:
   Understanding the flow and sources of inbound leads is vital. Bill points out that many salespeople do not track where lead volume originates, whether from corporate initiatives or personal outreach.

   Bill (10:23):
   "What are the numbers of inbound leads that are coming to me in my territory?"

2. Engagement and Give Metrics:
   Bill introduces the concept of measuring how often salespeople make introductions or connections for others, emphasizing the importance of contributing to the network.

   Bill (14:58):
   "The number one is the number of unsolicited or solicited introductions that you make for other people."

3. Internal Conversion Metrics:
   Tracking internal processes, such as how many interactions lead to meetings beyond the initial contact, provides deeper insights into sales effectiveness.

   Bryan (16:02):
   "Another thing that we don't measure is the insides of this... for example, out of every 10 deals that I start..."

4. Average Days to Close:
   Knowing the average time it takes to close a deal helps in assessing the efficiency of the sales process.

   Bill (17:08):
   "I would highly encourage you to measure your average days to close."

Practical Examples and Case Studies

The hosts illustrate their points with real-world examples. Bryan shares a case where a salesperson made an unrealistic number of cold calls (800 calls in four months) but only closed one deal. This stark disparity underscores the need for better tracking and optimization of sales activities.

Bryan (12:34):
"Out of the 800, how many deals have you gotten? He said, one."

Bill adds humor to the conversation by comparing traditional sales metrics to "boy math" and "girl math," coining the term "salesperson math" to describe the often-confusing and ineffective numbers salespeople rely on.

The 'Give' Metric: Measuring Your Contributions

One of the standout metrics discussed is the "give" metric—how often salespeople contribute to others' success by making introductions or connections. Bill advocates for setting a modest goal, such as making two unsolicited introductions per month.

Bill (15:24):
"Measure the give. Measure the give. And two, a month is not... So that's one of mine."

By consistently contributing to others, sales professionals can foster goodwill and create opportunities that may return benefits in the future.

Internal Metrics: Enhancing Sales Processes

Beyond external metrics, Bill and Bryan emphasize the importance of internal metrics that assess the efficiency and effectiveness of the sales process itself. These include:

• Days to Close: Monitoring how quickly deals are finalized can help identify bottlenecks and streamline processes.
• Engagement Rates: Understanding how many of your interactions lead to meaningful progress can highlight areas for improvement.

Bryan (17:56):
"If we're just talking emotion and theory and concepts, but we're not getting it down to dollars and cents. Yeah, we're missing that."

Pricing Strategies and Business Math

In the latter part of the episode, the conversation shifts to the importance of understanding pricing strategies through business math. Bill advises salespeople to collaborate with their CFOs to analyze how price changes impact sales volume and overall revenue.

Bill (20:11):
"Go to your CFO with this one and have your CFO create a little spreadsheet that shows you the amount of volume that you need to increase every time you discount price by a percentage point."

He reassures sales professionals that strategic price increases can be beneficial, even if they risk losing some customers, by significantly enhancing profit margins.

Conclusion and Takeaways

As the episode wraps up, Bill and Bryan reiterate the necessity of tracking both traditional and new metrics to gain a comprehensive understanding of sales performance. They encourage listeners to adopt these metrics to not only measure but also improve their sales strategies.

Bryan (22:26):
"We want to hear from. Think of some of these episodes because we're trying to... conduct ourselves and get behind the numbers, which was today's."

Key Takeaways:

• Expand Beyond Traditional Metrics: Incorporate inbound lead tracking, give metrics, internal conversion rates, and average days to close.
• Measure Contributions: Regularly make and track unsolicited introductions to build a strong network.
• Understand Pricing Impact: Use business math to strategize price adjustments for optimal revenue.
• Collaborate with CFOs: Leverage financial expertise to align sales strategies with business goals.
• Continuous Improvement: Regularly review and optimize metrics to enhance sales performance.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Bryan (08:24):
  "What are the numbers of inbound leads that are coming to me in my territory?"

• Bill (14:58):
  "The number one is the number of unsolicited or solicited introductions that you make for other people."

• Bill (17:08):
  "I would highly encourage you to measure your average days to close."

• Bryan (22:26):
  "We want to hear from. Think of some of these episodes because we're trying to... conduct ourselves and get behind the numbers, which was today's."

---

This episode provides valuable insights for sales professionals seeking to refine their strategies through better metric tracking and business math understanding. By adopting the discussed metrics, salespeople can enhance their effectiveness, build stronger client relationships, and drive sustained business growth.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Welcome everybody to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in the history of podcasting. I'm Brian Neal.

[B]

And I'm Bill Caskey.

[A]

Here every week for your listening enjoyment. 18 and a half years we've been here every week for your listening enjoyment. We may have missed a couple along the way, but not many. If you're not a part of the insider group, you need to be part of the insider group. Go to advancedlangpodcast.com Little info on the insider. Join that program live coaching with Bill once a month. Awesome, awesome, awesome program.

[B]

Yeah. And if you're not on the email list, go to advanced sellingpodcast.com you'll be able to sign up for the email because one of the things we're doing this year is I'm doing a little review recap summary of the insider program in hopes that you'll really like that you'll get value and if you want to participate, then you can. So, but not only goes to email people whose addresses we have. So go to advanced podcast.com and just put in your email address name and we'll make sure you get on that list.

[A]

I love it. And stay tuned. If we have any little fun things to do, we'll put those also in the LinkedIn group. I think we're up to 13 or 14,000 people in LinkedIn group.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not sure how to manage the groups these days. You know, groups is a thing LinkedIn needs to improve its group experience. That's my opinion. To message it or whatever.

[B]

Well, you know, I've been. Have you ever looked at school or any of these. School is a. Is an online community and it's really well done. Alex Herosi. You know Alex.

[A]

Oh yeah, for sure.

[B]

He's invested in it and he believes the future of businesses like ours and really a lot of businesses is in the communities. As in. Yeah, I'm not sure how into communities, sales people or, or business owners are. I'm not sure they're not. I just, I've never felt like. But, but it's hard to create a community. I mean LinkedIn. Yeah, it's a bucket of people who have said they want to be a part, but it's not really a community.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And even though we've tried to post things, just us posting stuff doesn't make it a community that just makes a blog, you know.

[A]

No, no. LinkedIn's got a little hidden asset there they could tap into. So yeah, like a webinars, like we ever have a webinar put that you're you mentioned earlier you were on a webinar. Oh, yeah, Tell me that.

[B]

Well, yeah, I, you know, Brian, I don't, I don't like to make fun of people.

[A]

No, we're not making fun of people.

[B]

Times. Sometimes people are funny. And these are two different people. I just dropped in on this webinar. I can't remember what it was, but after these two remarks, I knew I was in the wrong webinar. This one, this one person, they were go. The, the moderator was going. They were probably 10 minutes in and they hadn't, you know. You know, sometimes webinars you don't get to the point. And I like it when it's like, hey, here's who I am. Here's what we're going to do today. Here's what you're going to learn. Let's go. Yeah, because people, I find people don't have time to waste. And this person, although a good moderator, they were, they were dragging their feet a little bit. And this one comment came in and there was like a thousand people on this webinar.

[A]

Oh, James. Big, big webinar.

[B]

Yeah. And this one comment I saw in the chat, it said, hey, can you get to the point? I've got a dental appointment at. Now, I don't know if that was mocking.

[A]

Great.

[B]

Could have been a mock.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

I thought, okay, there's thousand people. And then another one, like five minutes later, the moderator said, if you'll go to. It held up a QR code, said, go here, download the PDF, download the free copy. And this one person, another person said, will we be charged on our phone for text minutes if we do?

[A]

Oh, geez.

[B]

Like, when's the last time he looked at your bill? Yeah, used to be people say text tax charges apply or something like that. I don't even hear that anymore. But this person was really interested in 45 cents.

[A]

I wonder. I would love to see that person go to the Verizon store and be like, you know, ma'am, we do have. You know, for an extra 50 cents a month, you'll get unlimited text. No. What? You're not gonna do that to me. Nope, nope. I'm sticking with my. I didn't even know they had that. Did they still have texting?

[B]

Oh, gosh, I don't know.

[A]

It's. It's funny when you're in the business that Bill and I are in, you're in the public domain business, you, There are just people, you know, we very few, you listeners of the event selling podcast are Fantastic. And there's always a couple like this. They go, get to the point, guys. And I'm like, just fast forward, like, tap, tap. Two taps, and you're. To the content.

[B]

You know, the nice thing about this is you can tap forward on a webinar. You really can't.

[A]

You can. You're live.

[B]

Yeah, I could feel that from her. Okay.

[A]

All right. Topic.

[B]

Topic today. You know, when Brian and I get together before the show, and we have breakfast and steak and eggs, and we really do it up nicely in champagne. That's why we're sometimes a little. A little. We each of us bring a topic. And so this is my topic today. I don't know why I'm telling you all this. Good. I want to own this story.

[A]

It's a backstory.

[B]

No, it's. But. But I'm. I'm doing it because I know how important numbers are to you and your business. So this topic is something like, what's the math of your business? What are the. What are the numbers of your business? And sometimes when I go into a company and start working with them, I get into a discussion about the numbers. And I'm hoping to call that out a little bit today with you. But. But I find most people don't really know the numbers of their business. They're. They're kind of. They're obscure. They're out of sight, out of mind. There's no. With all the data we have in our business, I find that some of these numbers are really basic, like closing percentage out of the deals you propose, how many do you close? So I. I thought it would be a good topic to say, well, are there a half dozen numbers that we as sales professionals or leaders really need to dial into in our business so that then we can improve those numbers. Because sometimes I think we go out and try to fill the funnel on the top end with more and more and more. And yet, hell, we got. We got a sieve on the. On the bottom end because things are dropping out of the funnel because we're not paying attention to the numbers.

[A]

Love it. 1. Totally agree. When you brought this topic up, is this your top? Is Bill's top?

[B]

Yeah, I brought this up straight on that.

[A]

Exactly. That's hilarious. I love it, though. And you're right. You're like, you're gonna love this topic. And you said. I'm like, I do. I really. I lit up. So there's a. There's a meme going around. So we're trying. We're staying gender neutral here. So There's a thing called boy math and girl math, and there's all these memes about it. You know what I mean? So, you know, boy. Boy math is when you know you're. You're too cheap to get your wife flowers, but you can justify somehow paying 1200 for a new driver for your golf bag. It's boy math and the girl maths. I go out and spend, you know, $5,000 on clothes, but they saved 250. So today's episode. Exactly. Right. It's good. So this. Well, let's call this one salesperson Math. And I would agree that most salespeople Salesperson math will make an accountant or a CFO's head scratch a lot. Ironic. I just had breakfast with an accounting professor from Purdue University. Really? Great. I'm not going to say his name because I didn't get permission to, but he has found a little accidental niche in consulting, helping sales teams understand the math of their customers, their business. Math. Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'm gonna have him talk to a couple of our peer groups here, and he's on to something.

[B]

Well, why don't we get him on the show?

[A]

We can do that. That was part of the thing. I think it'd be great. Great interview. And really. And he's not, you know, you picture. When I say accounting professor, most people have a picture in their head. It's not him. No. It's really good energy. Young, young professor. You know what I mean? Went to Penn State straight through. Anyway, and what he tells me, and he's got a couple of proof points here with some clients he's worked with, is if we can just get, you know, somewhat good, like not really good, but somewhat good at understanding business math as a salesperson, it gives you this massive, massive, huge advantage over your competitors, which is why you listen to the event selling podcast.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

So that's a long way to say I love this topic. So let's dig into some. Wow. Detail of it.

[B]

So let's try to get him on. So that. That's a different set of numbers. The math of our customers. Business, which I totally. I think that's as. As if not more important, because when we're talking to them, if we're just. If we're just talking emotion and theory and concepts, but we're not getting it down to dollars and cents. Yeah, we're missing. We're missing that.

[A]

Yep. 100%.

[B]

All right. So here. Here's my premise that, you know, 40 years ago, 30 years ago, we. We only had really several metrics we had. How many cold calls are you making? How many presentations or proposals are you making from the people on those cold calls that, that want to see it? And then third is, what, what's your engagement percentage? How many are you closing? So there were really only three numbers, which. And those three numbers are still, they're still in the ballpark in terms of like, cold call today is not necessarily a cold call, though it might be cold outreach. What else are you doing to create those conversations in the middle?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And it could be LinkedIn. I've got a client who does LinkedIn. He does a great job on LinkedIn. He's posting daily on LinkedIn and hell, every month he gets five to seven to ten inbound calls. Who they want to talk to him. Well, that's different than cold calling. In fact, it's better for him because his business is so niche that, you know. But the point there is what are the what today as we look at 2025 with digital and with all this data that we're really proud of, what should we be measuring today in addition to cold outreach and those things?

[A]

Yes. Let's call this the missing math mission. Easy for me to say, missing math. What metrics, what numbers are we missing in our day to day. I'll give you one that I think is exactly what you just said, is that what are the numbers of inbound leads that are coming to me in my territory?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it can be from corporate. It doesn't have to be from you. Now you go a level down is what percentage or how many are coming per month from me is a metric that I don't think too many sales people pay attention to. They just get them when they get them. But they don't think, I want to average five. In your client's case, I want to average five per week or a month. And to average five per month, I have to post on LinkedIn once per day.

[B]

That's correct. That's correct.

[A]

They're missing that.

[B]

That's the new math.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The new math is what we used to call it.

[A]

Yes. I love it.

[B]

Yeah, I love that. And because you're, what you're doing there is, you're just peeling away the top skin and saying, okay, let's look just a level deeper.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then the level deeper of that is starting to, starting to make sense of why the numbers are the way they are. Here's an example. I've got a, I've got a client who, and he may listen. So I gotta be careful here. No he, he joined the company about five or six months ago, and he's making cold calls. That's his job, business development. Cold calls. And I said, how many you make a week? He said, about 50. I said, okay, it's 200amonth. I said, is that real? Are you real? Yeah. I said, yeah, I probably average that because I know that if I said that, it would be about five a month, right? And I said, you've been there for four months. You've been making calls for four months. He said, yeah. I said, so, 800 calls. I said, okay, how many of those? Let's just take 100. Out of every hundred calls you make, how many do you get a second meeting with? So you get an actual appointment with? He said, oh, probably 10%. I said, okay, that's pretty good. 10% said, of those, how many do you get? Do you propose something? He said, oh, probably five. And I said, okay, how many do you get? He goes, well, usually zero, but I will tell you that out of the eight. So I said, out of the 800, let's expand it. Out of the 800, how many deals have you gotten? He said, one. And I said, well, do you. And I was. I had to be careful about pouncing on that because to me, yeah, that sounds like an awful existence.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

But he said, yeah. I said, are you happy with that? He goes, well, you know, I got. I said, well, how big was the one? Right. Not very. So, well, let's look at some different ways to do that. And. And he said, okay. And so I gave him three ideas, one of which was. Doesn't matter. One of which I thought was a good idea. And he, He. What's it called? He rejected all three.

[A]

Ah, got it. Okay.

[B]

And I said, you. You mean you're not even going to try them? I mean, so you. You're not all that upset with one out of 800, are you? He says, well, no, not really. And I thought, what is it about. What is it about one of 800 that's inspiring to you?

[A]

Totally great stats.

[B]

And so how. Yeah, at least he has the stats. But I was like, oh, so what? What did I do? You know, did I position this wrong? Or are people just so bought into the orthodoxy of how it's always been done that we literally cannot see another way?

[A]

Yeah, I like to. Is it called. Would you say extrapolate? Is that the right word?

[B]

I think, yeah, I think extrapolate.

[A]

Extrapolate. 1 out of 800 turns into 10 out of 8,000 turns. 10 out of 8, 000 attempts, it starts to, like, not look so hot even when you add zeros to it. You know what I mean? It looks even worse. 10 out of 8, 000. Yeah. This is just a perspective change and that's why we're doing this episode. You got to change the perspective on your math. The old math that used to be important is not as important, or there's additions to it. I'm not saying it's not important, like throw it away, but you gotta re. Rethink it. Here are some other. Here are a couple missing metrics that I think people don't pay attention to. The number one is the number of unsolicited or solicited introductions that you make for other people. How many times a month do you make a connection for somebody else do you measure that? I'm a huge proponent of measuring that. It doesn't have to be a big number. My number is two. I make two unsolicited introductions every month. I sit down at this little meeting that I have with my operations person and we, I pick two from this list and I just make, I connect people. And if you do that over a long period of time, I guarantee it will come back to you through a month or two. A week to a month. To a month. That's not a lot.

[B]

Doesn't take a lot of time.

[A]

No. Jeez. It takes eight minutes. Not even. I don't know how many of the 800 cold calls your client can get in eight minutes. But you know, sorry, a little snarky, it. But people don't measure that. They don't measure that. They, they want to get, get, get, get, get, get. And so measure the give. Measure the give. And two, a month is not. But you do that 24 times a year. Yeah. So that's one of mine.

[B]

And I don't think you need to be obsessed with measuring everything here. I think what, what Brian said and what we're saying is you have to have your some eyeballs on some of these numbers because your future depends upon this.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And you know, for example, on the LinkedIn thing, why don't you do it for a year and then, and then see what has come from that and make a list of the 24 people or however many you've linked and, and track it in some way or see if anything has come back to you. The only way we're going to know if the new numbers work is if we track them and measure them. And if you're not measuring the current numbers, you're probably not going to measure the future numbers.

[A]

Truth. Truth.

[B]

I think another, another thing that we don't measure is the insides of this. So for example, let's say that out of every 10 deals that I start where I have a conversation with a prospect and it leads to a conversion measure some of those inside things. Of those 10, how many times did I get to people beyond just the people who had reached out to me? So did I, did I include other people? And if so, how many? Because what you'll find after you do is several sectors of 10. You will find that, you know what, 80% of the time when I talk to the CEO, I get the deal and 10% of the time I get the deal when I don't. Yeah, that will influence. Yeah, that will influence some of yours too. But if you, again, if you don't pay attention to numbers, you'll never arrive at that. And there's just so much inside the numbers and not great at it. I mean you're much better at it than I am. But I just feel like we as, as professionals, if we truly Want to double 2x5x100x whatever it is our business. Yeah. Gotta look at the numbers because there is stuff slipping through abs.

[A]

There's no doubt. Okay, here's another one. I now some companies measure this but as a salesperson. You're listening. I would highly encourage you to measure your average days to close. That will be so insightful for you to know how efficient you are in your sales process. And you can tighten this up with things you've heard on this podcast about date stuff. But you gotta know always right in front of your face average days to close.

[B]

So that's from the time that, that there was for there was initial contact.

[A]

It would be your most people would define it. When you open an opportunity in your CRM, which is some people do it first contact, some second. Everyone listening. If you're on that, you'll know yours. But when you open the opportunity to it gets answered yes or no.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is the close. And they will tell you a lot.

[B]

That's a great number. So it really is. When you have these numbers like the one Brian just mentioned or the, the ones inside, the question always is, well what can we. Can we do anything to improve that number?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So if I'm the one out of 800 person, I'd be saying what can I do to get that number from 1 of 800 to 1 in 10?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Or what can I do? Because there, if you look at it that way, Then you've reframed the problem so that you can actually take some action to start to test some things.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

I know. Next episode, we're going to be talking about a topic that has to do with how do we fill in the gaps of time between the time we first start talking to somebody? If there's some dead air in there, how do we fill that in? But that would be a good example of a number. What. What can we put in there? What can we do to improve the number? And like webinars, for example, when you do a webinar, if you have a hundred people register, do you know how many typically show up?

[A]

Right.

[B]

40.

[A]

40? Yes.

[B]

Okay. It used to be 70 back in covet. It was like 110 would be rounding.

[A]

Up their family members, telling us, we got dental appointments. Hurry up, get to the point. All the things. All of them. We had all of them.

[B]

So it's 100 out of 40 or 40 out of 100. So the question then becomes, well, what can we do in between the time they register and the time of the webinar to get that number up to 50.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there are some things you can do. There are some specific things you can do. Okay, so 40 people come, and you typically get 20% of those that want to book a call or want to want to do something further. Okay, 20%, that's fine. How do we get that number up to 25%? What can we do? And I think the what can we do to improve the number? Comes almost naturally after you know the number. Yes, but I wouldn't stop just knowing the number. I would. I would always. You know, the secondary question is, what can we do to improve that?

[A]

That's a great advice for all these things. So can one more topic. You were right. Okay. And this is two sides of the same issue. And you need to go to your CFO to help.

[B]

Whose topic was this anyway?

[A]

This is Bill's topic, but I love it. It's a great topic, Bill. One of the greatest topics we've ever had in 19 years. That's better.

[B]

That's more great.

[A]

Great topic. It really is, though. I'm serious about that. Go to your CFO with this one and have your cfo, and they can do this really quickly. They can create a little spreadsheet that shows you the amount of volume that you need to increase every time you discount price by a percentage point. Oh, they'll be able to do that. And here's the other fun part, though. Look at the. Look at how much less volume you need if you do a price increase. And if you get paid on gross margin or gross revenue, you've got to get comfortable raising price. And I promise you, the math works in your favor. And salespeople, you're listening to this. I love you. Everyone is so scared of this. We're so weak about it. We're so weak. Well, pricing. We're so scared of it. When you do the math, the amount of volume that you need with a price increase drops exponentially differently than the. Than the actual price increase itself that you need. So you can leave, customers can leave you. They can say no, and you're still ahead of the game.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So do that.

[B]

We should do an episode on. On price increases, because there's a lot of them right now. And I think that would be a really good episode. And that would be mine, too.

[A]

I wonder if we have anyone selling eggs. Any egg sales? People listening to podcasts, I'm sure the whole eggs community. Oh, my gosh. If I'd only, you know, stash some eggs back in the day, boy, I'd be sitting on it. Like, did you buy gold crypto eggs?

[B]

Eggs Farm fresh.

[A]

I've got a trackout book. Okay.

[B]

Okay. Good job today. I hope this is helpful. Check us out on LinkedIn and the group advance sellingpodcast.com LinkedIn join the group and we want to hear from. Think of some of these episodes because we're trying to. We're trying to get into things that aren't just pure. How do we sell stuff? It's more how do we manage ourselves? How do we conduct ourselves? And how do we get behind the numbers, which was today's. And then next week we'll go further into this a little bit on. On another topic. But the whole idea of what can we do tactically to help our sales process and help us close more? So see you next time.

[A]

Bye.