Summary4 min read

Episode Summary: The Science of Sales Coaching

Podcast: The Advanced Selling Podcast
Hosts: Bill Caskey and Bryan Neale
Episode: The Science of Sales Coaching
Release Date: May 21, 2025

Introduction

In this solo episode of The Advanced Selling Podcast, Bryan Neale delves deep into the intricacies of sales coaching, challenging traditional methods and proposing a more scientific approach to enhancing sales performance. Drawing from his extensive experience since 1997, Bryan offers insightful perspectives on the effectiveness of role-playing in sales training and introduces alternative strategies grounded in accountability and measurable outcomes.

Challenging Traditional Role-Playing

Bryan begins by addressing a common practice in sales training: role-playing. He observes that while some sales professionals enjoy role-playing as a form of practice, many others find it ineffective and unengaging.

Bryan Neale [02:30]: "Most salespeople love to play the game, but not necessarily to practice it through role-playing. It's about enjoying the game more than the drills."

He critiques the subjective nature of role-playing, emphasizing that coaching the "art" of sales conversations often relies heavily on personal opinions rather than measurable results.

Bryan Neale [04:10]: "When you coach the art, the only way to correct it is with someone else's opinion. It's hard to scientifically nail down what's happening from your coaching."

Introducing a Scientific Approach to Sales Coaching

Transitioning from critique, Bryan introduces his alternative methodology that shifts the focus from subjective practices to tangible metrics. He advocates for inspecting sales processes and calendars to ensure consistent performance.

Accountability Through Metrics

Bryan emphasizes the importance of extreme accountability, a core value at Blind Zebra, his sales operating system. Instead of subjective evaluations, he proposes using existing sales metrics to gauge the effectiveness of coaching.

Bryan Neale [06:45]: "Let's measure my sales coaching the way you measure your sales team. Use your metrics, and if they go up, we see some causation there."

Calendar Inspection and Meeting Targets

A pivotal part of his strategy involves the meticulous inspection of sales calendars to ensure that salespeople have a pipeline of opportunities. By setting clear expectations for the number of new client meetings, Bryan introduces a systematic approach to maintaining sales momentum.

Bryan Neale [09:20]: "I am going to inspect your calendar two weeks ahead with an expectation that you have at least three new client logo meetings booked. If that's not on the calendar, you're not doing your job."

He argues that this method transforms vague and opinion-based training into a mechanical and documentable system, fostering a more disciplined and results-oriented sales environment.

Bryan Neale [12:15]: "We're shifting what's vague and opinion-based into something that is mechanical and documentable."

Benefits of the Scientific Approach

Bryan outlines the advantages of his proposed method, highlighting how it leads to consistent performance and minimizes reliance on subjective training techniques like role-playing.

Eliminating Role-Playing

By removing role-playing from the training regimen, salespeople can focus on actionable metrics that directly impact their performance. Bryan suggests that this shift not only streamlines the training process but also enhances accountability.

Bryan Neale [15:50]: "Salespeople, you never have to role play again. Instead, you focus on having meetings booked, which are measurable and impactful."

Enhancing Sales Performance

With a structured approach to tracking and improving sales activities, Bryan assures that sales teams will experience an uptick in performance metrics, leading to overall business growth.

Bryan Neale [18:30]: "If you agree to let me inspect your process and your calendar, I guarantee you will be at the top of the scoreboard."

Conclusion

Bryan Neale wraps up the episode by reinforcing the importance of moving beyond traditional sales training methods. By adopting a scientific approach grounded in accountability and measurable outcomes, sales professionals can achieve sustained success and elevate their performance.

Bryan Neale [22:00]: "There's enough vague and gray around selling. We need to focus on the science to drive actual results."

He encourages listeners to adopt his methodology, promising a more effective and streamlined path to sales excellence.

Key Takeaways

Critique of Role-Playing: While role-playing can be beneficial for some, it often fails to provide measurable improvements in sales performance.
Scientific Approach: Implementing a system that relies on concrete metrics and accountability leads to more consistent and reliable sales outcomes.
Calendar Inspection: Regularly reviewing sales calendars to ensure a steady flow of client meetings is crucial for maintaining sales momentum.
Elimination of Subjectivity: Moving away from opinion-based coaching to a mechanical, documentable system enhances clarity and effectiveness in sales training.

Notable Quotes

Bryan Neale [04:10]: "When you coach the art, the only way to correct it is with someone else's opinion."
Bryan Neale [09:20]: "If you stop role-playing and let me inspect your process and your calendar, I guarantee you will be at the top of the scoreboard."
Bryan Neale [18:30]: "There's enough vague and gray around selling. We need to focus on the science to drive actual results."

This episode offers valuable insights into modernizing sales coaching by emphasizing measurable outcomes and accountability over traditional, subjective methods. Bryan Neale's approach provides a concrete framework for sales professionals seeking to enhance their performance and achieve sustained success.

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Transcript3 lines

[00:00]
A
Foreign welcome everybody to the advanced selling podcast. The longest running sales training podcast in the history of podcasts. My name is Brian Neal and I'm the only one here. Solo episode powered by Blind Zebra. Blind Zebra sales operating system blind-zebra.com to learn all about how to become certified. We are up to 81 certified coaches across the country who's who've been certified in our operating system and those people have deployed that to about a thousand salespeople. So if you're an advanced link podcast listener, let's go. Get over here. BZSOSlindash Zebra.com BZSOS@blind-zebra.com I wrote my own jingle. How's that? Also sales leaders little plug here. June 5, 2025 June 5, 2025, 2:00pm Eastern Time U. S. Blind Zebra, we're going to be hosting a webinar called you can't coach chaos and you sure as hell can't train it. You can't coach chaos and you sure as hell can't train it. Thursday, June 5, 2pm Eastern Time U.S. it's a webinar so anyone can join and I'm going to take you through what I mean by chaos and then I'm also going to share with you how to fix that. And that's going to be a little bit of my topic today. What do I mean by chaos and how to fix it? Okay, we'll put the registration in the LinkedIn Group advanced selling podcast. LinkedIn Group, we'll do that. I'll put it on my feed so if you follow me, please do connect with me, Brian Neal on LinkedIn. We'll put it in my feed and just be watching for it. You could also go to Blind Zebra or if you can't find it for whatever, just send us an email@bzsos blind-zebra.com it's for sales leaders. This is for sales leader sales people. I'm sorry, sales leaders. This is coaching chaos. Okay, I'm going to talk to the sales people today though. But okay, you can't coach chaos. Thursday, June 5, 2025 Webinar 2:00pm Eastern Time. It'll be about 45 minutes. Quick and in and out. But you'll get some awesome tools. You'll see what I mean by chaos. I'll kind of hit you in the head with this one. I'm so sorry, I just will. But then also I'll make you feel better afterwards. I'll give you like an ice pack for your head when I hit you in the head. Okay, so let's get into it. Sales team. I'm going to talk about one of everyone's favorite favorite topics. Role playing. Who loves to role play? Quick show of hands. Who loves role playing? Oh, my God, I can't wait to role play now. I know somebody. Like, I do. I actually do, Brian. I love role playing. I love mixing it up in the training room a little bit. I don't. I don't like it. You know, I work my NFL job. I like the games. I like the games. I don't like doing rules test and writing. I like the games. I want to be on the field and work the game. I want to be held accountable when I work the game. I don't want to work the game. And most sales people are the same way. You love to play the game. You may not like to practice. This is not about what you think it is. You think I know you. You think, oh, God, here's gonna tell us we got a little to practice. I'm actually not even gonna say that. Okay, I'm gonna make a deal now. Here's the deal. This will lead into. This isn't exactly what I'm going to talk about in the webinar, but it's adjacent to it. Okay, here's the deal. I am a, like, recovering sales trainer. I'm in recovery for sales training. I've been sales training coaching since June 3, 1997. That's when I joined Bill. Bill and I got together that spring, and that's when I started working with Bill. June 3, 1997. Long time ago. We always get asked the question, so how do you measure this? What's the ROI on sales training? I'm like, never had a good answer. Then I got a better answer. Still not a great answer. I said, well, why don't we just do this? I love accountability. It's one of our core values of Blind Zebra. We're. We have. Extreme accountability is one of our core values. And why don't we just measure my sales coaching the way you measure your sales team? So you will. Instead of me having some special scoreboard, let's just use yours. And we'll watch all the metrics and we'll train. And if the metrics go up, we see some. A little bit of causation there. Like, there's a reason that we can point to that that's good. And if they stay flat or go down, then maybe that's not good. There may be some other things that decide if it's working or not, but that's an easy place. To start, I think it's great. I think it's awesome. It worked really, really well. It's still though, when you role play with someone. Now we're getting into the deal here. When you role play and practice with someone, you role play and practice the conversation. The conversation is the art part of the sales process. It's the art part. Here's why. I've trained thousands of people over my career other than listening to a call. So if you're a, you know, SaaS seller, you SaaS sellers selling robust systems, you can do this kind of. If you're an outside seller, there's only one way to do this. I have no idea if I train you how to ask good questions, I have no idea if you're doing it or not unless I visit and ride along with you. And I have no idea if you're good at handling objections unless I observe you doing it. If I'm a digital seller and I sell through zoom and my calls are recorded, even if I've got gong, a really awesome tool that we use at Blind Zebra, I. I'm looking at the art part. Here's the deal. When I'm looking at the art, art is subjective. I got a chance to go to the Museum of Modern Art in New York. Not a big art guy. It's really unbelievable though to see a Picasso like Pablo Picasso's, you know, Starry Starry night, the actual one sitting there. I think that's an awesome painting. Someone else thinks it sucks. It's all opinion. And when you coach the art, the only way to correct the art or say the art is good is with someone else's opinion.
[05:52]
B
The advanced selling podcast two minute drill is powered by the Blind Zebra sales operating system, a curated collection of field proven tools that make selling simple to solve your biggest sales problems and drive immediate results. Stop chasing prospects, stop being ghosted and get stalled deals moving again. Learn more@blind-zebra.com so the way that I.
[06:13]
A
Teach you to handle an objection, even if it's process oriented, there's still art to it. As I'm listening and practicing, I might say, hey, you may have want to said this, you should have said that or you should have asked that push back. Try this phrase instead. That's my phrase, not your phrase. That's still my opinion. Okay. It's really hard to scientifically nail down what's happening from your coaching. When people go out into the world, you just can't do it. It's really hard to do. So what's a person to do if you hate role playing. And I'm not saying to never role play. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying if you hate role playing, I'll make you a deal. Here we go. Salespeople. You never have to role play again. You never have to role play again. Like, thank God, I hate role playing. Here's what you have to do instead though. You have to be open to me auditing your process and your calendar with math and science. No opinion. Math and science. Okay, so let's talk about what that means. Sales leaders, listen up. Because if you're like, I'm gonna write along, do a coaching ride along, okay? We're gonna teach them how to talk and ask questions and all this jazz, okay? Instead of doing that, I won't do that anymore, salesperson. But here's what I will do. I am going to inspect your calendar two weeks ahead of wherever we are and have an expectation that you have at least three new client logo meetings booked with green check marks next to the prospect's name at any point in time. And if that's not on the calendar, you're not doing your job. And in lieu of role playing, you have to agree to do that stuff. That to me sounds like a bargain. Because what I'm trying to do is shift what's kind of vague and magic and opinion based and creative into something that is mechanical and documentable. Is that a word? Documentable. I see you guys. If you listen long enough, you don't have a good vocabulary. I need Caskey. Where is he when I need him? It's documentable. It is now. No, it's a word. Tada. I just made it a word. But. Well, I can verify. You either have a meeting with a green check mark accepted by your customer or you don't. Right. There's no debate. There's no magic in that at all. There's no opinion. It's a fact. And I love to live in the facts of things as much as possible. There's enough vague and gray around selling. But we spend so much time training and coaching the art, we don't spend any time inspecting and teaching the science. And that's part of what I'm talking about when I say you can't coach the science and you sure as hell can't train it. Or the chaos. You can't coach the chaos. Sorry, you can't coach the chaos. Sure. So I can't train it. Okay, you can coach the science. I can teach you mechanically how to Book a meeting with someone. I can teach you mechanically how to get it back on the calendar when they ghost you. It's all mechanics. It's not art. It's not. Well, do this, say this, try this. That's all manipulative, poor intentioned art. This is just like raw, clear science. All right, so we got a deal, don't we? No more role playing as long as you let me inspect your process and your calendar forward at any one time with a numeric expectation you'll never have to role play again. See what I did there? Okay, now I know I've got sales people, sales managers. Listen to this. You both have an opinion. What I'm not saying is never role play. I'm not saying never, because some of you sales leaders, you're stuck on that. Like, we got a role play. We gotta. We gotta go practice in the practice room. I'm not saying not to do that. I've got clients who are machines when it comes to practicing. I love it. Look at the NFL. There's. There's so much practice. There are episodes. Bill and I have done that, talked about being a good practicer. So I'm not saying that's not good. What I am saying is there's more to it than that. And the more to it is more documentable there the second one time. Now, if I use it four times, is it a word? It's got to be, doesn't it? Documentable and much more scientific and much better for you. And I promise you, salespeople, if you. If you do my deal here, if you stop role playing. But you let me guarantee that you, you have three new logos booked at any point in time. I look at your calendar with green check marks two weeks in advance from where we are any point in time. If you do that and agree to that, and I do that, I guarantee you, you will be at the top of the scoreboard. Guaranteed. Because that's way more important, I think, than teaching you how to handle an objection. Because you can't handle an objection when you don't have any meetings booked. And so many of you live in the week to week. So that's my. That's my speech for today. I hope you do my deal. Okay. I hope you do my deal. We'll stop doing role playing or at least shrink it down. Okay? Not saying absolute here. If you will agree to let me inspect your process and your calendar, and we will both, I guarantee, if we do that, we will both be happier people. All right, let's see. Go to blind-zebra.com check out BZS west and you can't coach chaos. You sure so can't train it. Thursday, June 5, 2025 2:00pm Eastern Time we'll put the link in the Advanced Selling Podcast Group. There's your reason to go there or in my LinkedIn feed. Brian Neil Find me on LinkedIn Advanced Selling Podcast LinkedIn Me, by the way. And if I'm not linked into you, shame on both of us. Let's go and I'll help you in any way, shape or form I can. All right, that's it. See you next time. Event Selling Podcast Cheers, Sam.