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- [00:01]
Connor
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- [00:28]
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- [01:30]
Jaden
to get access to this episode and my next 30 episodes all AD free so there'll be no ads on them. Go check out my podcast AI Chat. You can go search for that on Spotify or Apple. It's AI Chat. I'm going to post all of these news episodes and I'm also posting interviews like I just interviewed the CEO of Cohere. They've raised over a billion dollars for their AI model, talking about what they're going to be spending the money on and the direction of the AI industry along with all of this new stuff. So if you want to go check it out with no ads free for free. It is AI Chat. I host two other podcasts. One is called AI Hustle. It's about growing and scaling your business with AI tools. And one is called AI Applied about using AI in your career. Every once in a while I play an excerpt of one of those podcasts on this show to give you an idea of what it's like. I'm going to play an excerpt from Today's episode of AI Applied. We're talking about Microsoft's $2.5 billion AI bet. I hope you like it. And if you enjoy this episode, go Check out the AI Applied Podcast anywhere that you get your podcast. It's a AI applied. Microsoft has just committed $2.5 billion and 6,000 employees to a new AI implementation unit. Now, this is not new. They're not the only ones that have done this. They're following what OpenAI and Anthropic both have, you know, made partnerships with different organizations. Accenture and Deloitte, if I'm remembering correctly. And I mean, there's a bunch of players that have been doing this, a bunch of private equity firms that have been kind of getting in on this and kind of investing money into these sort of AI implementation units. Now, Connor has a spicy take on this that I was reading on LinkedIn and I was like, connor, we gotta talk about what you've been saying, because this post has been blowing up and I think it's making some people mad, but I see a lot of truth to this. So. And basically his take is that maybe what Microsoft is doing is not the right way to do this, which is, you know, shocker, especially when this is $2.5 billion that are about to be spent on this. So, Connor, I'd love for you to maybe explain a little bit about what these implementation units are hoping to achieve, what you think they will achieve, what you think people should do. And if this is all a giant
- [03:28]
Connor
$2 billion mistake, total billion dollar mistake, everybody. Yeah, I love the hot take here, man. This is so, by the way, I did have people from Microsoft, like, you know, writing to me and being like, it's not really 2.5. It's sort of like that's kind of like reallocated, but the message is the same. And even people inside Microsoft, like, yeah, you know, the headline don't really love the headline, but essentially, like, you know, the headline is essentially. Let me grab it. It's from the information originally, if you don't have the information. But it's expensive to apply to, subscribe to, but it's worth it. Microsoft commits $2.5 billion to new Applied AI consulting effort and then says the new unit comes as large companies. And this is important. The new unit comes as large companies have groused that it can be tricky to configure AI software to their own needs and generate meaningful returns. Jaden, I'll tell you why I am up in arms about this. So it reminds me. So we were working with the big. So AI mindset, like, works at big companies to sort of like, transform from a behavioral standpoint, right? Organizations to really transform AI adoption and I remember working with this huge like oil and gas or energy, energy company. Sorry. And we were kind of like talking about all this in this, doing this big senior leadership workshop which we do. They're like, you know, three and a half hours long or something like that. And at the end these folks were talking about when they did like their SAP enterprise transformation thing and they're like, yeah, and remember how we had to keep on tweaking it because people just weren't really satisfied with it and all that kind of stuff. And I kind of paused the conversation. I didn't really want to get involved because it was a conversation kind of among them. But I was like, can I just point something out? Has this happened before? And they're like, yeah, it happens all the time. I'm like, this is what we think about all the time. Every time you sort of like have a new system, Jayden, a digital transformation takes place. Hey, we're now going to use Salesforce. What happens? I promise you, everybody complains because people like the old system. So what do they do? They blame the system instead of how they work. And so when Microsoft sees this, and I'm telling you, this is what happens. It's not just Microsoft. I mean it's every big LAI lab, It's Google, it's anthropic, it's OpenAI, it's all of these labs. And I'm telling you, this is what happens. They put out a pilot of like 5,000 to a 50,000 person company and what they say is everybody's going to use this and then it's going to catch like wildfire and then we're going to sell our licenses to the other 50,000. What happens? A fraction of those people use it. It's just truth. Right? And the whole point is that they are now getting feedback because they're like, well, what's happening? Why aren't people using be like, oh, I don't know, I just don't like the features or some. And they complain about the thing which Jaden, I'm going to sound like a broken record here but like it's like complaining about the treadmill. It's like, you know what? I don't know, it's just sort of like it's downstairs or like I have to do laundry or like the features. I don't really. The problem is not the treadmill. The problem is you. Right, and why? Because we're just, we don't like change, we don't like new systems, all that kind of stuff. And everybody who's sitting there listening to the sound of my voice and being like, that's not true. AI is great. It's just people have to be more curious and they have to just find their use cases and they have to. I'm like, you've tried that, right? Has anybody responded to that? In the same way, has anybody responded when you've shouted eat less and exercise to them? It doesn't work that way. So when Microsoft is putting all of this effort, and I understand that there's nuances to this, it's not exactly like they took a pot of $2.5 billion and 6,000 people aren't putting it to this, but what they're doing here, and I love Microsoft, I really do. I'm actually, you know, one of these people that I'm like a huge Microsoft fan. But I keep telling them like, you're the adult in the room here, like you own Enterprise. Why focus on it like this? Where you're like, yeah, let's come in and help you, like, tweak the systems and work on the features. That's not the problem. The problem is that what they actually need the McKinsey's for and the BCGs and everybody else's is how to get people to sort of like transform how they work. But even that doesn't work. Jayden, I promise I'm going to shut up after this. But even that doesn't work because the consulting model doesn't work. Why is that? Because when the big consulting firms, the Microsoft, sorry, the McKinsey's, the BCGs, the Bains, the Deloitte's, EY's, et cetera, when they go. And what they are great at is they are great at looking at a system of like, hey, you guys do sales this way? Well, we know that from doing sales in a million other companies. The best way is to do this way. So do it like that or you do operations this way. The best way is to actually do it like this. So change what you do. That's fine. That's great. That's called consulting. But coaching is very different. You can't just say to people, hey, be nicer to each other, or hey, think differently, or hey, be more collaborative. That doesn't come from best practices from other organizations. You have to get people to change their habits and behaviors and everything else. Which is why, sorry, now I've brought it all the way back. Jaden. Microsoft is trying to solve the easy problem and corporations are trying to solve the easy problem of like, oh, well, let's just Tweak the system when the problem is not the treadmill. The problem is you just don't want to get on that treadmill. That's where I wish Microsoft would put $2.5 billion on helping people to rethink how they work and rethink processes.
- [08:21]
Jaden
I just think It's a big miss, 100%. I mean, if you're going into an organization and you're like, hey, everyone, you got to try the new Microsoft Copilot. We're signing it up on everyone's computers. These are all the 10 things we recommend doing. We're doing all hands every morning and share our favorite Microsoft copilot, like tip or. I mean, that's not how they're implementing this in reality, but, like, let's think about it, right? Or we get the engineers in there and we're looking at the workflows and we're trying to, like, get the Microsoft work, you know, work copilot tools, like, embedded into the workflows and everything. That's not how you. That's not how you drive the big change. The big change comes from individual people getting a spark and realizing, oh, my gosh, look how capable this is. Look how much time I can buy back for myself personally to work on the parts of my job that I like doing. Automate the repetitive, mundane parts. Like, as soon as someone gets that spark, you don't need to spend $2.5 billion to convince them to use it. They're obsessed with it. I mean, most of you guys listening to this podcast are in that ballpark, right? Like, you see, you see something incredible that it can do, and you want to go all in and figure out all of the ways. And even myself, who covers AI all day, every single day, there is so many ways that I discover every day, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I never even thought of that. That's so cool. I want to try it out, right? Like, this is what drives the adoption is people being genuinely excited because they. They catch that spark and you have to ignite that spark for people. And you're not going to do it by just going and telling everyone to go download Copilot onto your computer and make sure to go ask it, you know, what time the Yankees are playing at X, Y, Z. Some simple little thing, right? Like, you really got to get them to actually get a spark with it. So that's one thing. And the other thing that I think for me is just. I mean, it's just so much money that could be spent in so Many other places. I know you said Microsoft was like, oh, it's not really 2.5 billion. I mean, it's just kind the way the presser goes out or whatever. But I just think that there's a lot of ways. In your opinion, Connor, from a lot of the consulting that you've done with organizations, what's the best way for people to help others in their organization catch that spark?
- [10:17]
Connor
Yeah, I love that you call it the spark. So the thing that we figured out, I think, in this whole thing is the reason why we don't teach use cases and we teach process instead, is that use case is just encouragement. Come on, guys, find your use cases again. It's sort of like, come on, guys, don't you want to feel better? Like, get out there and run. Like, that doesn't work. You have to put processes in place. So for some people, you know, we do it through this whole behavioral thing, which actually drives a lot of spark because people like, oh, I didn't think of it like that. It's. It's actually like this and not like that. So that gets a lot of people kind of like with that spark. But we can't get everybody. We just can't. So then the people that we don't get, we have to put a process in place. Right? So the two. Let me attack those two sides. Right? So first of all, Gene, I totally agree on the spark. The only thing that drives AI adoption. It's one. First of all, it has to be driven at the individual level. Unless you're talking about AI in a product, right? Like. Like Jin's AI box, right? Like, that's. Your product keeps getting better and better and better because of AI, Right? Like, I mean, and that's. That's awesome. But for individuals at a company, when you're trying to drive value, it has to happen at the individual level. Because you're paying people to drive value for your company. You don't have, like, some people and some robots. It's all people. So what do you do in that case? You want to have everybody have their spark. And the problem with the spark is that it often happens outside the scope of work. And anybody listening probably has had that spark, as you said. Right. I want to know, like, how many of you have found that spark in a personal thing versus a work thing? Because I find it's often impersonal. Right? You're like, oh, my gosh, I spilled, you know, coffee on this, and I don't. And all of a sudden, chatgpt gets you out of a bind. You're like, oh my gosh, like it doesn't usually come because somebody discovered how to write an email faster. That. Who's that? Who's that? Like being like the genie has come out of the bottle, right? No, it's like it's not exciting. It doesn't get you sort of like wanting to stay up all night like just working with AI. It doesn't get those things. So then how do you drive that if you, if, if you sort of like if people just aren't finding that spark, right? So again like in our, in our training, like we get a lot of people but we don't get everybody. So the people we don't get, we have to have like the people. Leaders in those organizations put processes in place, like meetings, things like that, where AI is integrated and we have specific ways of doing this. But like where AI, you can't get to the end of the day without going through AI in some way because then it's sort of like forcing people. It's almost like, hey, listen guys, to start the day at this company, we're all going to go out on a two mile walk or whatever. At some point you're going to get more and more people who are like, you know what? I actually like, I'm really glad I'm doing this, you know what I mean? And like you force it in that kind of way, a forcing mechanism, because then they will find their spark through that. But that's why we don't do use cases. Because use cases are just like, come on everybody, just find your thing. And you're kind of encouraging. So we say moving from encouragement to expectation abuse. Expectation abuse is, listen, all our meetings are on the third floor and the elevator doesn't work anymore. That's how you get people healthier. Do you know what I mean? Like you're just saying like people have to go through a process. So that's how we've had success on that. And I just wish again, Microsoft, to my friends at Microsoft, you are the adult in the room here. Like you are able to do this like you own enterprise. I mean obviously so does, you know, so does IBM, so does you know, Google, so does you know, SAP, so does Salesforce. A lot of these places do. So I'm kind of speaking to them as well. But if you focus on how you get people to change their processes rather than the tool itself, then they're going to buy your product at scale, like because they'll have that spark. That's what gets me probably over as you could see, overly excited. But that's how we think about it.
- [13:34]
Jaden
Yeah. And I mean the last thing that I'll say is there also is an issue in a lot of organizations where I feel like the companies themselves are not doing enough. And like you mentioned that forcing function is so important because I feel like the companies themselves are not doing enough to encourage or push people. Maybe they had early like bans on AI, maybe they just never encouraged it, maybe they never rewarded it. And I mean there's all sorts of absolutely ridiculous reward systems like who's using the most tokens. Okay. Terrible ideas but, but like genuinely getting people to leverage these tools. Because the things I'm seeing a couple different things. Number one, a lot of the software companies I use and the scrappier, savvier startups, they are churning out new features every two weeks because they just can. And it's like, it's actually blowing my mind. There's a bunch of companies I've followed for a long time and the rate that they're able to just put out these incredible features or rebuild their entire platform is so impressive to me. And I understand why because I'm doing the same thing with all my software and platforms and tools, but I'm not seeing it from all companies. And the companies that I'm not seeing it from. For example, I mean there's just so many people where you realize that we are sort of in a bubble. There's some people that are really taking advantage and there's some that are just not. I was recently talking to someone and he's a developer at like a big gaming studio. And he's said, I'm like, I'm like, oh my gosh. Like he's a front end developer. I'm like, you must just like, Clyde must be your best friend, right? It's like so awesome because I'm doing this all day, right. And he's like, to be honest, like, I don't know if I've tried the Claude one yet. Like I think I tried, we had like a GitHub one but then it's, we don't have it anymore. And like I've started using it a little bit lately. But anyways, it just blew my mind.
- [15:04]
Connor
Yeah.
- [15:05]
Jaden
How much he didn't use it. And I'm like, if it's not a priority in your company, it's not a priority for your employees. And if it's not a priority for your employees, you're not shipping new updates every two weeks because you can, you're not 10x in your output because you, like, you can with AI. And so, yes, there's like, business as usual. And some companies are, like, in these industries where you're kind of entrenched, you kind of have a good thing going, and business as usual works pretty good. But, I mean, if you really want to stay competitive, you have to make this a priority. I know I'm speaking to the choir here, but it. It blows my mind because it probably happens at least once a week where I talk to someone and they're, like, not using AI.
- [15:41]
Connor
Jane, this is. This is. This is the bubble we live in. It's the bubble we live in just to close that out. Like, just remember, guys, that, like, two things. First of all, we live in a bubble that anybody listening to the show lives in the bubble. A lot of people are not, excuse me, using AI. I'm not getting emotional. I'm just gonna take a sip of water.
- [15:56]
Jaden
Connor is incredibly emotional about this point, and people just aren't using AI.
- [16:00]
Connor
I was watching the. I was watching England, Mexico the other night, and Harry Kane lost his voice. I'm like, how embarrassing is that? And he had a much bigger audience, so I think I'm okay. Jaden, the thing is, like, this has to start with leadership. It has to sort of, like, start with leadership and work its way down. Just as you're saying, there's literally no way for a company to sort of, like, hold people accountable unless leadership is holding people accountable. That's where that has to start. But again, we have to understand that, like, just telling people to use it is just never going to work. Guys, before I lose my voice again, like, again, if anybody saw Mexico, England, they know the Harry Kane interview was glorious. He lost his voice. He sounded like Kermit the Frog. Luckily, I think I've rescued myself. But here is the thing, guys. If you are sort of, like, trying to push yourself and trying to sort of, like, see how you can use this better, I cannot recommend more highly Jaden's AI Box AI. This is my absolute favorite thing to use, because when I'm bouncing between claw, gemini, OpenAI, those are my kind of, like, big three. This allows you to do that for less than 10 bucks a month. It's absolutely unbelievable. Use all these models, help, you know, compare things. This is what I'm doing. And spending hundreds of dollars a month. Check this out, if you haven't already. It is unbelievably worth it. You won't regret it. And don't forget to leave a rating and review we are so grateful for these conversations with you all and we will see you in the next episode.
- [17:14]
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- [18:15]
Jaden
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