The AI Policy Podcast: Shield AI’s Ryan Tseng on Building an Autonomous Future for the DoD

Host: Gregory C. Allen (CSIS)
Guest: Ryan Tseng, Co-Founder & President of Shield AI
Date: June 10, 2025

Brief Overview

In this episode, Gregory C. Allen sits down with Ryan Tseng, co-founder and president of Shield AI, to discuss the evolution of defense technology startups, the company’s origin story, and their work in building AI-powered autonomous systems for the battlefield. The conversation dives deeply into Shield AI’s operational support in Ukraine, the unique challenges of defense entrepreneurship, and where military AI and autonomy are headed—particularly in GPS- and communications-denied environments.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Origins and Motivation Behind Shield AI

• Ryan Tseng’s background as a serial entrepreneur, having sold his first company (focused on wireless charging) to Qualcomm, and his search for a “noble mission,” “extraordinary people,” and the opportunity “to define the possible.”

  • “If I could find the intersection of three things, I’d have that fire for the rest of my life... A noble mission. ...Extraordinary people. ...A chance to define the possible.”
    (Ryan Tseng, 04:29)

• The company’s inception during an era when defense tech was considered “idiotic” by Silicon Valley—before the sector’s recent popularity.

  • “I think it was categorically considered idiotic to start a technology company focused on defense.”
    (Ryan Tseng, 06:24)

• Early struggles with venture capital, including a notable refusal to take funding that required abandoning the national security mission.

  • “I’d rather go out of business trying to make mission impact, than take this money.”
    (Andrew Reiter, as relayed by Ryan Tseng, 11:47)

• Shield AI’s original focus: providing autonomous quadcopters for special forces—solving GPS-denied navigation, autonomy in loss of comms, and other technical hurdles.

2. The Climb: Scaling from Start-up to Major Defense Player

• The “climbing the aviation food chain” strategy:

  • Start with quadcopters → Progress to more consequential platforms (e.g., VTOL, jet aircraft).

• Key milestones:

  • 2016: First meaningful funding ($800,000) and contract with the Defense Innovation Unit (DIU).

  • 2017: Andreessen Horowitz leads Series A, signaling a shift in VC perception of defense tech.

    • “Sometimes I just look for what seem like the dumbest possible investments because it’s either crazy or it’s brilliant.”
      (Peter Levine of Andreessen, via Tseng, 14:02)

  • 2020: Acquisitions of Martin UAV (VTOL aircraft: VBAT) and Heron Systems (reinforcement-learning for jet aircraft; winner of DARPA’s AlphaDogfight competition).

    • “The AI system not just winning, but like smoking them by the end... it was a wake-up call to the fighter pilot community.”
      (Greg Allen, 15:13)

  • 2022+: First live F-16 dogfight with AI pilot; human-vs-AI live dogfights; Shield AI named Collier Trophy finalist.

3. War in Ukraine: A Test Lab for Military Autonomy

• Ukraine as a “wakeup call” for military innovation:

  • Initial failure: Early Shield AI aircraft deployments in Ukraine were unsuccessful; “not ready for the EW [electronic warfare] environment.”
  • Key challenge: GPS and comms denial are omnipresent; U.S. defense systems built for GPS-permissive environments failed to perform.
    • “People will take microwave ovens, turn them inside out, blast them up in the sky, and GPS is no longer functioning over very large geographic regions.”
      (Ryan Tseng, 19:14)

• Pivot and Breakthrough:

  • Redeploying VBATs with alternative navigation (AI-powered).

  • First successful mission: Provided GPS-denied targeting of a Russian SA-11 ($100 million asset).

  • The learning curve: Software malfunction on first live attempt; fixed and redeployed in just 24 hours—a rapid innovation cycle unheard of in traditional defense acquisition.

    • “It was like a scene straight out of the movie Interstellar…eventually they found it orbiting 60km away and they were able to bring it down and land in a sunflower field, actually not a cornfield.”
      (Ryan Tseng, 23:18)
    • “Changing the software on an aircraft in 24 hours…traditionally, anything that's flight-critical software…once it works, for the love of God, never touch it again.”
      (Greg Allen, 24:05)

  • Ultimately: Over 170 sorties, all performed without GPS at any point, vindicating an iterative, mission-driven culture.

• Cultural lesson: Mission stubbornness and the necessity of agile, rapid software updates in combat environments.

  • “The only way to be relevant, the only way to survive is to embrace rapid iteration, rapid turnaround times and rapid change.”
    (Greg Allen, 25:43)

4. Policy, Process, and Lessons for the DoD

• Need for process and regulatory reform:

  • Traditional U.S. certification process is too slow for dynamic battlefields.

  • Ryan’s “three pillars” to win in autonomy: performance, assurance, and speed—ideally, all achieved within a 24-hour development cycle.

    • “I have sort of three pillars…performance…assurance…and speed. You have to be able to deliver one and two in a time frame of relevance. …if you can get through that cycle in 24 hours.”
      (Ryan Tseng, 28:17)

  • Current state: Even in the DoD, changing flight-critical software can take a year due to risk aversion and process complexity.

• The U.S. is learning—cautiously:

  • EW environments and affordable/dense air defense systems (even from non-peer adversaries like the Houthis) are changing fundamental assumptions from earlier wars.

  • The need for “mass” (large numbers of affordable drones) is critical—Ukraine targets over 1.5 million drones/year.

    • “How can you send a million and a half drones downrange per year and not get effect?...there is a big… targeting challenge…It’s been hard to get eyes and ears deep across the forward line of troops.”
      (Ryan Tseng, 33:10)

  • Takeaway: Intelligence, coordination, and effective targeting (with drones/AI) are as essential as sheer numbers.

5. AI, Autonomy, and Future of Military Operations

• The real state of battlefield autonomy:

  • Much AI & swarming showcased globally is GPS-dependent and non-robust for EW conditions.
  • Shield AI’s work: Building robust alternatives (e.g., vision-based navigation, inertial systems), but there are still “eight big conditions” to solve for.
  • The field lacks the industrialized tooling and infrastructure that mature software sectors enjoy—the process is not yet scalable or democratized.
    • “There are only so many of those people in the world…how do you…make it accessible to the defense industrial base?”
      (Ryan Tseng, 41:33)

• Shield AI’s vision: Mass deployment of “hyper-intelligent AI on every vehicle or weapon in the arsenal.”

  • First step: Get reliable, scalable “stand-ins for GPS.”
  • Second step: Enable battlefield-relevant swarming and teamwork without comms or GPS.

6. Challenges of Defense Entrepreneurship & Acquisition Process

• The daunting complexity of U.S. government acquisition systems—too many stakeholders, “so many people…on the chessboard who can say no.”

  • “It’s shocking… the number of stakeholders that have a vote.”
    (Ryan Tseng, 44:05)

• Contrast with Ukraine: Lean, evidence-based, and rapid procurement cycles—test on the EW range, prove efficacy, deploy if it works.

  • “Everybody has given us PowerPoints, those just don’t fly here. …They took us out to their EW range… slammed VBAT for a couple days…and then we started to get momentum.”
    (Ryan Tseng, 48:46)

• Potential U.S. solutions: Promoting problems-based, rather than requirements-based, acquisition to foster innovation and accelerate the deployment of needed solutions.

  • “I think that there’s a huge time savings and unlock there… usually much quicker to identify you have a problem than specify the solution to that problem.”
    (Ryan Tseng, 47:02)

7. Looking Ahead: 2030 and Beyond

• Shield AI’s aspiration: Mission impact at scale—deepening values of honor, service, and excellence.
  • “I hope we’re making mission impact at tremendous scale, still grounded in the values of honor, service, and excellence.”
    (Ryan Tseng, 50:01)

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On finding purpose:

  • “If I could find the intersection of three things, I’d have that fire for the rest of my life... A noble mission. ...Extraordinary people. ...A chance to define the possible.” (Ryan Tseng, 04:29)

• On early investment struggles:

  • “I’d rather go out of business trying to make mission impact, then take this money.” (Andrew Reiter, 11:47, recounted by Tseng)

• On battlefield software innovation:

  • “Changing the software on an aircraft in 24 hours... the traditional ethos... is once it works, for the love of God, never touch it again.” (Greg Allen, 24:05)

• On success in Ukraine:

  • “Since then, I think we've done over 170 sorties with the aircraft in the conflict. Zero of those sorties have had GPS at any point in the mission.” (Ryan Tseng, 23:53)

• On DoD’s need for reform:

  • “Future battlefields…will be defined by the agility of the software that's behind our forces, that enables them to operate effectively as conditions are fast-evolving.” (Ryan Tseng, 25:55)

• On scaling AI autonomy:

  • “There are only so many of those people in the world. And so how do you take something…that's required very high-end expertise and make it accessible to the defense industrial base so that…we can deploy it not once, but across the number of vehicles and weapons that the mission demands?” (Ryan Tseng, 41:33)

• On “problems-based” acquisition:

  • “I think that there's a huge time savings and unlock there…usually much quicker to identify you have a problem than specify the solution to that problem.” (Ryan Tseng, 47:02)

Important Timestamps for Segments

| Segment | Timestamp Start | |------------------------------------------------------|---------------------| | Introduction & company origins | 00:00 | | Early days, venture funding, founding moments | 03:17 | | Strategy: quadcopters to jet aircraft | 09:12 | | Key milestones: DIU, Andreessen Horowitz, Heron | 12:30 | | DARPA AlphaDogfight & implications | 15:07 | | Ukraine deployment (failures, lessons, breakthroughs)| 18:31 | | Software change breakthroughs; rapid iteration | 23:12 | | DoD/US process versus Ukraine speed/approach | 25:43 | | Mass in drone warfare, targeting challenges | 32:49 | | Cultural and process barriers in U.S. acquisition | 43:27 | | Need for regulatory reform and problem-based buying | 46:38 | | Shield AI’s vision for 2030 | 50:01 |

Summary

This episode is a candid exploration of the intersection between cutting-edge AI, startup hustle, and the realities of military conflict and bureaucracy. Through Ryan Tseng’s journey, listeners gain insight into the technical, cultural, and organizational shifts propelling military autonomy forward—and the hurdles that still stand in the way. Ukraine’s war serves as both crucible and warning, highlighting the urgency of rapid innovation, flexible procurement, and software/game-changing agility.

The future of defense tech, as Shield AI envisions, is one where ultra-adaptable, intelligent autonomous systems are as crucial as the traditional platforms they supplement or replace—and where mission-driven stubbornness can literally tip the scales on the battlefield.