Transcript
William Shawke (0:00)
Foreign.
William Shawke (0:17)
Hello and welcome back to the Africa Is a Country podcast. My name is William Shawke and you are listening to this, which is AIAC's regular destination for news and analysis of global events from a Pan African and Left perspective. This week we are playing back a roundtable that we held earlier this year. If you'll remember, In June of 2025, Africa as a Country held its inaugural Festival of Ideas in Nairobi, a week of screenings, workshops, panels and long, searching conversations about the future of political and cultural life on the continent. As part of the trip, our editorial team sat down with Joe Kabuti of the Elephant, one of Kenya's leading platforms for critical commentary and analysis. Joe has been a long and astute observer of the Kenyan public sphere, and in this wide ranging conversation he reflects on the country's shifting political landscape, from the promises of the 2010 Constitution to the emergence of a new Gen Z led revolt demanding a wholesale renegotiation of Kenya's social contract. As fellow travelers in the struggle to build a more critical, independent and solidaristic media, we approached this conversation with Joe not simply as observers, but as participants. The crises facing Kenya, including shrinking civic space, intensified repression, the return of theological, authoritarian rhetoric, etc are not unique. They resonate across the continent and beyond, including in our own work. So we probed questions such as what are our responsibilities as editors, writers and podcasters in such a moment? What new forms of public imagination are needed? How do we hold space for resistance and opposition while sustaining intuitions and institutions of critique? This wide ranging conversation explores all of these questions, from the ghosts of Kenya's post independence promises to the radical promise of the Gen Z revolt, from ideological decay wrought by structural adjustment to the shifting terrain of faith and power. In this conversation, Kubiti offers a very sobering and searching diagnosis of where things stand and what might come next, a reminder that if you enjoy the AIAC podcast, make sure that you subscribe. Wherever you listen to your podcasts, follow us on social media. But most importantly, head over to africasaccountry.com where you can find new articles and analyses on global events from a Pan African LF perspective. So without further ado, here is our roundtable conversation with Joe Kabuti of the Elephant.
Joe Kabuti (2:47)
I understood this conversation. It's really a conversation to have together with a particular moment of history and I think to locate where we are today in our newsrooms. I think we have to locate ourselves in, I think in a particular moment of history, which is that six years ago, November 9, the fall of the Berlin Wall and what transpired after that was we know the history was the great triumphant American era and things were good overnight. Reading Karl Marx was bad and wearing Reebok was good. We watched Jordan and Les Matt Stalin. So that was where we came. We came from here in East Africa but in particular Kenya which is my context of this conversation. The liberal democratic dispensation in America ushered in actually met with a lot of joy because at the time Kenya was facing, we were facing an economic recession then. We're going through structure adjustment programs which we just signed from the 1980s. Something similar to what happening today of course a different name we're calling to austerity, debt driven austerity. But the conditions are really much the same. Cutting back of health, education, etc again just like now. Also Kenya was under authoritarian regime, you know, under the president. So it's almost similar just like, just like now because his political disciple if you may is president. Right. So there's a kind of, kind of similarity with where we're facing today in terms of just the political economic measures. But interestingly what was useful about then and now was the young population that came or coming out of particularly university. We had something called jab. Jab was government sponsored. Students would be given quite a bit of money to be a two year university student. So you had quite a bit of time and freedom to be a leftist, a radical etc so all that was cut because of now the programs. But then the question then was what do we do with the graduates who are coming out of university. Of course Kenyan political players and public policy pundits didn't have a solution for that. So what was then what came was that a black market was formed so that the civil society as we know it coming out from the 90s rather cementing itself in the 90s was largely donor driven, was largely western driven, was largely pushing Western liberal democratic ideals and values. However, because of the context of where Saati was it was a welcome change. The then ambassador, the US ambassador to Kenya, Smith Hempstone championing these kind of things. If you look at the draws for that moment we see even the church key players like Reverend Timothy Njoyer saying Kenya is now ripe for democracy. So there was a whole, those are all the local forces, international forces came together. In a sense it was a useful marriage if you may. So at that time it was cool to be a civil society actor, it was cool to be a anti corruption crusader because you had western allies. It was cool to push liberal democratic values because you had western allies. And it Was cool to do this kind of stuff so that because you had people supporting you, because you are aligned to what in that sense, the American dream was pushing world over. So we went that way and a couple of things went that way. And you can proceed to the next slides. We went that way and for a moment there, you know, for a moment there, we're all told that, no, it's the end of history, right? The end of history. And as. Yeah, my center history. And the only thing that was left to do was now to. To have technical fixes to your political problems. So you. You didn't, you didn't, you didn't. We didn't need to philosophize our moment. We didn't need to. To have a kind of political consciousness for kind of daily struggles. All you needed this was a model. So it was the lecture not working. It's probably the problem with either. No, there are some technical fixes. So it's in Kenya. Maybe it was the ballots are not coming. Where do we get the final tallies? Is the polling station or is it the telling Center? The national Telling Center. So we go to court then. Now the Macau ruling is the polling station is a final verdict. So that became our dance. That became our dance. Even to the extent that even when we. Even when we pushed out Moi, that was our dance. Our dance was we're doing technical fixes. So authoritarian is bad, democracy is good. We removed Moi. Then of course, President Kibaki comes into Power in 2002 and we continue this kind of liberal democratic agenda. And it was great, particularly for this generation, the young guys who had come in, who now came of age agitating for this. It was useful, it was fun. Civil society was a thriving intellectual space with all these kind of ideas backed, as I said, by Western donor funds and the liberal democratic model. It was great, a good time to be alive. So much so that even in 2002, when President Kibak came into power, it was again a moment of euphoria for country. And this generation again. This generation again set up things. You know, the late Binyavanga Wainana, who is. Who is part and parcel of this generation, wrote a fascinating book, how to write about how to write about Africa. And it was a valve. It was cool. Things were good, you know, and we loved it. Kwani was set up. It was a literary space, was expanding, was bajoning. And we were enjoying what was happening in this particular time, isn't it? And we even contested, as you guys are, you know, you said we contested the idea that Africa is not a country, you know. And you, and you know this publication is called by that. And it was a time for that, the 2000s and the time for that so much that even in 2007 with the post election violence that it just seemed like a blip. It was a blip, blip in blip in our journey, our liberal democratic journey. It was a blip in the, you know, this dark cloud in a, in a, in a, in a rainy, rainy Paradise. Of course, 2010 because of 207. We cemented these gains and we promulgated our constitution in, in August 27th, 2010. And things were things, things kept moving, things kept moving. However, I know just like history doesn't move in a straight line, but it rhymes, you know. An accident happened in 2013. Suspects former President Uru Kenyatta and current president William Ruto teamed up. Teamed up and they pushed an impressive campaign to win power. So this was almost like it was a chink towards our liberal democratic game. So they clinched power and we found ourselves in a hole, you know. So what happened after this was about 2014, 2015, members of this generation, because this generation felt that no, all the things we had sacrificed our 20s and now 30s for. There were increasing democratic recessions. Civil society 2014, 2015 had now been been named evil society. We're seeing blowbacks in implementing the 2010 Constitution, particularly in health reforms, devolution. We're seeing increasing counter blowbacks, but also a kind of counter reform, counter reform agenda. So members of this generation sat together, particularly the progressives of this generation. Late night coffees, teas, debates. And in 2016 the elephant was formed and was formed as a platform for dialogue to speaking truth to power, to emergency in society. It was like exciting times because now it was how we needed a space. By then there was a shrinking civic space. Dennis Galava Gado and many people in our many columnists and editorialists within Kenya newsrooms were being let go. I don't want to say fired because fired. When you say fired, terms kind of HR problem. There was no HR problem. They were being let go. A lot of the calls were coming from state operatives that know that the editorials are too far, their cartoons are too far. So they were let go. Interestingly, an anecdote. Many of them were being let go by being given a scholarship to the uk. So they go scholarship, where you come back, you don't have a job. So it was an interesting way of letting go of people is that you promote them. The Peter Principle says they promote the level of incompetence by this way, giving them scholarships to the uk. So that's how it went. It was exciting. Early days is exciting because not just the elephant in many ways spurred a kind of environment within Kenya's public sphere to rethink our society. And in early days, things were exciting. You know, we wrote about ourselves to ourselves, you know, in the lines of Steve Biko. We wrote what we wanted. And I think that was exciting. And there was a lot of exciting time in Kenya's public sphere in that particular time. But again, he doesn't move in a straight line. So with COVID and. With COVID and stuff. But interestingly, because of the conversation happening in the public sphere, not just inspired by platforms like Elephant, by Africa as a country, Debunk media, Africa uncensored, Barrasa Media and all other kind of media outlets at the time, but also that conversation in the public sphere. Many narratives, many narratives that were held very strongly pushed by the state were dispelled or also were. Were dispelled, but they were, you know, they were falsified by, by that kind of stuff. So by the time we're getting to 2020, Covid is happening, the political elite realized that the prevalent narratives in which they were able to capture power and manipulate the voters were not able to hold forth. Of course, by then, Kenya was already 2018. We already signed our first. Our first IMF discretionary loan. So we're already beginning our journey of austerity, the that we are in. So, I mean, cost of living is high. The youthful narratives that are held were not able to hold together. And as Nanjala Nyabora writes in her book Digital Democracy and Politics, the new forms of politicalization were happening digitally. You know, they were being rendered digitally to different kind of spaces, either through digital platforms, but also generally the Internet. So Twitter, of course, now X, Facebook and also the dark web, WhatsApp, etc, so it's almost like a reconstruction of public happening in real time. Current President William Ruto, understanding this, marshaled a unique kind of campaign, realizing that the old narratives of the political elites to hold on to power, parochial tribalism, we're not appealing particularly for a younger demographic who increasingly are being socialized. The politicalization is coming from there, from digital platforms, marshalled a kind of campaign dubbed Hasas Dynasties. So it was a kind, it was a really on form, it was a class campaign. On substance, it was hollow. But at the time, campaigns unfortunately are pure branding schemes. In most parts of the world, we don't have ideological conversations about them. But that level, that kind of appeals attracted largely the youth, you know, largely the youth who showed up in droves and voted for him because the margin was thin. But it showed a shift towards Kenya's politics, again backed because of the success of the kind of work that the elephant and that had done in the last since 2016. So it was a kind of. It was a kind of. It was a hard moment, if you may, for this generation, particularly the progressives who thought, you know, what was the liberal democratic experiment for? If after 30 years, 30, 30, 35 years of advocating for it, pushing for it, leads us to this moment where it was actually a member of YK92. YK92 was a political vehicle of President Moi organize the youth against these liberal democratic reforms that actually were now coming into many parts of Africa and in this particular case, Kenya. So it was a kind of, you know, it was a kind of moment of disillusionment really for many in the country. So again, Naji Nyabola wrote a piece for the Times and said if you hear an airy silence coming from Kenya, it's because we're all in disbelief of what has just happened. And at Kenya this particular time is a histocracy, is what she defined Kenya As. So from 2022, there was a kind of stalemate to where we are, isn't it? And last year something happened, you know, something fantastic happened is that the younger generation, interestingly, they're actually the children of the generation that actually began this journey, took to the streets, the Gen Z revolution and began agitating for what was started by their parents not be complete. So which was actually the push of, you know, the push of constitutionalism, you know, real reforms, particularly police reforms, economic reforms, the full population of the Constitution, sovereignty, which is the conversion around debt, sovereignty around looking into conversion around, around Chinese debt, but also IMF and World bank and also Western powers. So that has been the conversation pushed by his generation. So to the extent that now we find ourselves here, so we find ourselves here today in a kind of revolutionary moment kind of thing that we don't know where we are going in the sense of. In the sense of we don't know what's going to come out of this, but we know where we're not going. So I mean, as you rightly put, it's actually, to quote Gramsci, he says, the old world is dying and the new world is not yet born. Now is the age of the monsters. So we find ourselves in a kind of the age of the monsters. Where we know where we are from, we don't know what's coming but when the age of the monsters. So just to tie that just two ideas before I conclude is that one, we are Kenya in many ways is in a revolutionary kind of moment. We have been here, we have a couple of pathways out of here but we are not articulate, we're not aggressively saying how do we move kind of this stuff. Even though are pushing for kind of self tied, self styled kind of Russian oligarchy kind of path. We were trying to create a kind of Bolshevik kind of revolution but then you know, but then it was captured by kind of Stalin kind of stuff where. And that also happened for the last couple of years. But then we have the, the youth in a sense are. The Gen Z's are coming. Coming to age in a kind of very kind of French Revolution kind of esque ness where they're really kind of, they're really trying to push a kind of new social contract with the Kenyan state. But then also, but also on the other side we have the older guard who are kind of seeing what's happening and are trying to kind of stall the revolution a kind of kind of German revolution kind of 1848 kind of way where you know, you capture revolution and you, you bring reforms with your kind of peace. So these are kind of scenarios that we are finding ourselves in for the youth but for our newsrooms because our newsrooms are. We are finding ourselves in a kind of hard place with what's happening not just in Kenya but also globally. We're finding ourselves in a very hard place where there's a kind of shrinking contrary civic space, journalists being intimidated, abductions but not just by journalists but by other people of course just the technological shifts happening in the newsroom but also donor interests moving towards other spaces. So lack of Western allies. So the Gen Z is also coming to the coming. They are doing this thing they're doing without support from Western allies as it was for their parents. So this is the kind of space that they're finding themselves. So just want to conclude with one last point and I've been reflecting about the Jewish rabbi Jesus of Nazareth biblical tale that he sends his disciples out and tells them go cast out demons. And they come back and they tell him we tried and nothing happened. And then he tells them some of this kind of stuff goes with through prayer and fasting. And I think I was thinking about this tale when I was talking about the age of the monsters because in a kind of theologically, you know, monsters Are demons. You know, they take territories. And so I was just thinking about how then do we think about ourselves within these kind of spaces of thinking, of thinking about our freedom? And I think we have to start thinking about our newsrooms with a kind of holding these two things intentional about prayer and fasting. And I'm not advocating for having newsrooms that do deliverance and prayer and prayer, prayer corners. But I think when we think about this notion of prayer is a notion of deep meditation. I think as editors, as journalists, sometimes we. The noise. We have to start creating pockets of silence where we're able to meditate on what actually we need to do. We can chase everything with the Age of Monsters. We have to really, really focus on what's the light and really think about that stuff as a meditative kind of practice. And to think about how do we even equip ourselves as journalists in these kind of times to think of ourselves as newsrooms, as spaces of prayer, but then also lastly, to think about our newsrooms as spaces of fasting. And I'm not advocating for guys not to have meals. I think food is important for journalists, very important. But I think it's also that thing to rid ourselves from unnecessary baggage. I think we find ourselves in Kenya, but also I think in Africa and the world where we haven't been here in. We haven't been here before. How do we negotiate? Also rethink how we are looking at a multipolarity shifting hegemons, wars, farmines, droughts, counter revolutions and counter reforms all at the same time moving, trying to move the needle forward towards a better, more just society. And I think we have to really start thinking of ourselves, of how then do we first fast away of the gunk that we have carried to be sojourners in a better world that I think this moment is calling us to create. So, friends, with those very few remarks, I just want to leave us with a quote by Teju Cole, the great American poet and writer said that we have to learn how to sit in the dark together. So I think one of the things we have to very, very clearly and carefully is to really learn in this particularly grim times as a society, to learn how to sit in the dark together. Thanks, guys. Amen.