GovDiscovery AI Podcast, Ep. 76 Summary

Guest: General Matthew "Jerry" Glavy (ret.), Member, CSIS Commission on Cyber Force Generation
Host: Mike Shanley
Date: February 11, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Mike Shanley welcomes back retired Lt. Gen. Matthew “Jerry” Glavy for an in-depth discussion about the future of U.S. cyber warfare capabilities, the creation of a dedicated U.S. Cyber Force, lessons from allied and adversarial cyber efforts, and the evolving relationship between the defense industrial base and government priorities. Drawing on his extensive experience across military domains—including leading Marine Corps Forces Cyberspace Command—Gen. Glavy shares candid insights into the urgent need for force generation reform, strategic and technical challenges, and actionable advice for businesses in the defense sector.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Need for a Dedicated U.S. Cyber Force

• Current Problem: The United States faces significant competition in cyberspace, particularly from adversaries like China, who some officials say "have an advantage" ([01:23]).
• Structural Issues: Each military branch provides personnel to Cyber Command, but cyber often lacks proper prioritization against enduring requirements in traditional domains.
• Force Generation Challenge: The discussion isn’t one of execution but of “how one recruits, retains, trains, and ultimately provides to US Cyber Command those incredible young men and do it in a more predictable and repeatable manner.”
  • Notable Quote:

    “Every other domain has a service assigned to it and that service is focused on excellence, mastery of that domain. I think this is no different.” — Glavy ([05:08])

• Commission’s Mission: The CSIS Commission is not debating if a force should be created but how to do it effectively, drawing lessons from the establishment of the Space Force and others.

2. Lessons from Space Force & Force Stand-up Logistics

• Legal and Infrastructure Barriers: Standing up a separate force involves Title 10 legal considerations and building new headquarters and bureaucracy, which “is not insignificant” ([07:05]).
• Focus Areas: Three key areas—operations, intelligence (with a data science focus), and acquisitions.
  • Integration of intelligence professionals with true cyber expertise is essential for future effectiveness.
  • Notable Quote:

    “Everything’s turning into a data problem, even collecting on the adversary and using that information to gain insights.” — Glavy ([08:01])

3. International Models & Allied Approaches

• The U.S. led in forming Cyber Mission Forces, with allies (mainly Five Eyes) following suit.
• The U.S. system is seen as a model for coalition partners, though the path forward may diverge as cyber matures into its own domain.
  • Notable Quote:

    “I think we are leading from a coalition, so to speak, and I think this is the next logical step that probably our partners and allies will or will not proceed with.” — Glavy ([10:10])

• Discussed the need for more transparency and visible deterrence in cyber as compared to kinetic domains.

4. AI and Cyber: Who’s Winning?

• Current Innovations: DoD’s shift to cloud environments and AI-driven security tools like Microsoft Sentinel have been game changers for anomaly detection and rapid response.
• Challenges: The race is ongoing—“it's a journey”—with adversaries also leveraging AI and hybrid cloud environments.
  • Notable Quote:

    “You’ve got to be just a little bit ahead of the adversary. But as long as you have the mindset, it's a journey that we’re going to continue. We've got to wake up every morning, what do I need to do better?” — Glavy ([17:23])

• Zero Trust Architecture: Zero trust is a necessary, ever-evolving process, but “the key aspect is still the user…All the great work…is for naught if we still don't make sure the user is to the best of their ability” ([15:35]).

5. Inside the Commission: People & Progress

• Leadership: Co-chaired by Josh Stifel (Congressional cyber expert) and Gen. Ed Cardone (Army Cyber), plus experienced former commanders and industry experts.
• Status: A parallel commission debates the necessity (“should we”), while CSIS focuses on actionable steps (“how do we”).
  • Notable Quote:

    “We're putting urgency in…once that decision is made, how do you do it right, so you don’t waste a lot of time.” — Glavy ([18:54])

• The debate remains over whether standing up a new service slows down or enhances cyber readiness.

6. Open Source Intelligence (OSINT) and Decision Making

• Rising Importance: Open source intelligence now comprises as much as 80% of a general’s decision making—a seismic shift from just a few years ago.
• Opportunities: Companies that excel at data collection and integration (e.g., Vannevar Labs) have unique advantages. OSINT's role now spans all warfighting functions, not just intel.
  • Notable Quote:

    “Open source companies…have a unique advantage because they have been in the data business for a while, right. They know where to go get the data and the sources and the methods. And…how to protect it…” — Glavy ([26:15])

7. AI Tools for Leaders: Embracing and Vetting New Tech

• Generals and decision-makers are increasingly relying on tools like ChatGPT and others for context and course of action development, but need to vet output and avoid pitfalls like hallucinations.
  • Notable Quote:

    “Whatever you use to do that man, you need to do it and do it well...You got to drive it correctly. You're in the driver's seat…you gotta check your homework, man.” — Glavy ([28:44])

8. The Defense Industrial Base: Innovation, Data, Software

• Demand Signals: Software and data are as important as hardware, if not more so; iterative, rapid development cycles are critical (“not in months or years, but in hours, days and weeks maybe”).
  • Notable Quote:

    “If you're a software-centric force, then you can look at the capability that you're buying, you're building, and look at improvements…based on a software model rather than based on a hardware model.” — Glavy ([33:19])

• Senior DoD leaders increasingly value competition, agility, and the ability to rapidly field operational improvements.

9. Lessons from Ukraine

• Rapid Innovation out of Necessity: Ukraine’s defense has depended on constant innovation—“the first and foremost lesson is change. Constant change. Move, counter-move.”
  • Notable Quote:

    “This fight really is about who’s smarter.” — Glavy ([36:10])

• Application to U.S. Military: Learning to rapidly iterate, adapt, and accept a culture of change is vital for survivability and effectiveness in future conflicts.

Memorable Quotes with Timestamps

• On Force Generation:

  “This is not about the current execution, it’s really about force generation and how one recruits, retains, trains, and then ultimately provides to US Cyber Command…in a more predictable and repeatable manner.” — Glavy ([02:37])

• On Deterrence in the Cyber Domain:

  “In the cyber domain, I don’t think we have equivalency [with kinetic deterrence], and I think that’s part of the problem as well.” — Glavy ([11:35])

• On AI and Cloud Security:

  “Every piece of equipment in a cloud environment becomes a sensor and bringing all that information into the cloud now affords you…and the enunciations changed how we did a network operations. So those capabilities are AI based…” — Glavy ([14:15])

• On Open Source Intelligence:

  “It’s turning into more than just OSINT…the need for aggregation of data for a commander to make a decision…The open source companies…they know how to do this and do it well.” — Glavy ([25:10])

• On Innovation from the Defense Base:

  “Every company that I see has to be a master. From, from a data standpoint, how are you using data? And…how are you using software in order to make your product better?” — Glavy ([32:30])

• On Lessons from Ukraine:

  “Change is probably the biggest lesson…We tend to think of our jobs as doing it 10,000 times…but more and more it’s going to turn. This fight really is about who’s smarter.” — Glavy ([36:12])

• The “So What” for Industry:

  “Keep it up…The whole scale-to-agile concepts work, I think, from an overarching industry approach on how you get incremental success over time…make software equal or not more important than hardware.” — Glavy ([39:07])

Important Timestamps by Segment

| Segment Topic | Timestamp | |--------------------------------------------------|-------------| | Setting up the CSIS Cyber Force Commission | 01:07 | | Standing up new force logistics | 07:05 | | Lessons from allied cyber models | 09:40 | | AI in cyber – who’s winning? | 13:12 | | Status of commission, reaction in DC | 18:30 | | Key players on the Commission | 22:48 | | Changing role of open source intelligence | 25:10 | | ChatGPT and AI for military decision making | 28:44 | | Message to defense industrial base | 32:03 | | Lessons from Ukraine | 35:11 | | Final “so what” takeaways for industry | 39:05 |

Closing Takeaway

General Glavy’s central message: The U.S. faces a moment of urgency in cyberspace—requiring structure, agility, and innovation not just in technology, but in force generation and organizational models. The future lies in a cyber force capable of recruiting and retaining excellence, leveraging open source intelligence and data, embracing AI as both tool and threat, and iterating as rapidly as modern battlefields (physical and digital) demand. For industry: “make software equal or not more important than hardware,” master data, and be prepared to adapt—because in cyber, “a winner today may not be a winner tomorrow.”