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- [00:02]
A
I'm Brett Snyder, author of Cranky Flyer.
- [00:04]
B
And I'm Brian Summers. I write the Airline Observer. You're listening to the Air show, the podcast where we talk about what goes on in the business of the sky. I am back from my adventures in Arkansas last week. I enjoyed my time there and thanks to the team at XNA Airport for treating me well. It was actually a nice time this week. Brett, it's just you and me because John is in Dubai for. For the big Air Show.
- [00:32]
A
It sure is. I believe he is probably being bombarded with orders from Fly Dubai, but we will. We'll have to maybe talk about that after. After Thanksgiving when he returns. So this week, why don't we keep the mailbag theme going for just one more week?
- [00:49]
B
Another mailbag episode. Nobody wants to hear this, Brett.
- [00:52]
A
It's not really that I'm just messing with you, but this does actually stem from an email we received in September from listener Jeff. So let me read this to you and then I can explain where we're going here. Jeff says, I'm a United employee, so I do enjoy hearing about how much everyone except UA and DL sucks. That said, a more challenging series of episodes might be what's wrong with dlua. As one thing, I think we're doing well at United is a culture that no person or organization is above feedback and improvement.
- [01:24]
B
So.
- [01:25]
A
So tell us where you think we suck and you might as well do a similar episode for the other two airlines that are doing well.
- [01:31]
B
Wait a second, Brett. I thought that United was the best airline in the history of the world. Didn't Scott Kirby say something like that?
- [01:37]
A
He has said a lot lately. There's so much to unpack there, Brian, but.
- [01:44]
B
All right, well, I'm very impressed with Jeff's note nonetheless, because often when airlines are on top, as Delta and United are, they really believe the press about them and they deserve to most of it. But every airline, including Delta and United, has things about them that aren't perfect. Now, I don't know if we need to do a three episode arc on Delta or United or even Alaska, but maybe, Brett, we should do one episode for each one episode about maybe what's not perfect about these airlines. So, Brett, what airline do you want to focus on today? You want it to be the airline that may or may not be trying to curry favor in washing by going with the America first approach? Or do you want to go with Tom Brady's favorite airline?
- [02:34]
A
I think we do probably want to save United for another day today. Let's talk About Delta. How about that?
- [02:41]
B
What is wrong with Delta besides the fact that they never really talk to me anymore? Although they told me yesterday they're going to send me a coffee table book to celebrate Delta's 100 year anniversary. So they have that going for them, which is nice.
- [02:57]
A
I'm pretty sure that they don't talk to many people, so you should not feel special in that regard. I did not get a coffee table book. But we've only got one episode to talk about this, so let's stop talking about coffee table books. I thought long and hard about how to structure this discussion. I figure let's start with some network fleet and some product, shall we?
- [03:21]
B
All right, but what's wrong with Delta's network and fleet and maybe the seats on that fleet?
- [03:29]
A
Yeah, well, in reality, not that much compared to some of these other things that we have discussed. Right. There's no gaping hole or failure to respond to the market in a, in a broad way. But there are, I guess I would call them areas of concern, maybe most notably for me in the network is Asia. You know, Delta has really failed to tackle Asia in a meaningful way. Instead, it's largely relying on its Korean partnership as sort of the be all, end all. And I know we've talked about this before, but in 2005, Delta and Northwest served 16 airports in Asia. You know, some of that went through the, the legacy Tokyo Narita hub that Northwest had. But today it serves four airports. Seoul, Incheon, of course, Tokyo, Haneda, Shanghai, Budong and Taipei. And for comparison, united back in 2005, it served 20 airports, so a little bit bigger, and now it's at 17. So even with the elimination of the old Narita hub that existed back then, it still has a very significant presence and it's a growing one. And if we include the entire Pacific beyond Hawaii, so including Oceania and all that, United serves 31 airports today while Delta is at eight.
- [04:52]
B
That's a really good point. If we had to find somewhere that's a big hole in the network, it might be Asia. What I find interesting is both United and Delta closed their Tokyo hubs, but United went ahead and after several years of being stagnant, decided that they were going to overfly Tokyo and fly to many of these destinations on their own metal. I don't know if Delta planned that itself and maybe the. Those were routes that were supposed to be launched from Seattle and maybe they just realized they wouldn't work there or if it was always the plan to go through these joint venture hubs. But we're really seeing Delta just not make as much progress in Asia. And you and I talk a lot about United because we're US based. But I had a chat last week with Mark Gallardo at Air Canada, the chief commercial officer there. And it's not only United that's making this big bet on Asia. Gallardo talked to me about how he wants a 351 thousands or 777 XS because he also believes that there is a lot of space in Southeast asia to fly 16 to 18 hour stage lengths and make a lot of money. It's interesting that we don't see Delta trying to do that.
- [06:08]
A
Well, yeah. And Air Canada just recently made Bangkok year round, if I remember right. And they do Singapore now and they've also launched Singapore.
- [06:16]
B
That's right. Which is an amazing, amazing hole in Delta's network.
- [06:20]
A
It is. But we'll see where Delta is going to go with this. I think Delta really seems to think that Korean can solve its problems in Asia. Also though, this is where talk about the Triple 7X or the A350 1000. That may be great for Singapore and Bangkok. These are big markets. But I'm worried that Delta doesn't have the right fleet to really be able to penetrate Asia in the same way. Think about this. United, first of all, it has San Francisco. It is the best gateway to Asia from the us there's no question about that. Delta still trying to figure out what it's doing. It's got Seattle, but then as you know, it has recently announced Hong Kong out of la. So we're not exactly sure what the plan is here. But if you really want to get deeper into Asia, the airplanes that Delta has, these are not really small enough, I think. So Delta's big flagship for the Pacific is the A350 900. It has two configurations on that. The more dense one is 306 seats. And it's newer configuration, which is more Premium, has 275. It's a big airplane now. United has its 7773000 but it uses those for its biggest routes from San Francisco. The best gateway from the US but it uses the 7879 as its pathfinder to find these new routes that might work. And that has 257seats. It's notably smaller. It also has the more premium version. It's rolling out with 222 seats. And that's what it's going to be using for Singapore as well as London, the really high dollar kind of routes. But with 257seats, United can use that airplane to really go further into Asia and try new routes. And Delta is not going in that direction. It's ordered the A350 1000. It's going bigger, not smaller.
- [08:20]
B
Isn't it funny how the pendulum always swings in this industry with fleet, it seems like a lot of these airlines can't do anything right. There's this drive for fleet commonality, and if not the same type of airplane like the Dreamliner family, at least the same manufacturer. So Delta told us a lot about the importance of an Airbus only widebody fleet going into the future. And now United, which we'll talk about at a different time, is saying, you know what, maybe we want the A350. And more germane to this discussion, there are rumors out there that maybe Delta understands doesn't have the right fleet mix and might order the 787s. I think the rumor is that it's the 787 10, which is a bigger airplane, but it still could serve as another tool in Delta's arsenal if it goes that way.
- [09:09]
A
It could, but it's a bigger airplane with less range than the nine. So the nine is really going to get you the maximum ability to try everything over the Pacific, just with the distances being longer. But Even with the 787 10, I still don't really see how Delta can build its network in Asia the same way that United can with the nines. Take a look at Taipei. Right? That market is insane. Delta only serves it from Seattle. It's one of four airlines that serve that route, which is too much. But for the 12 months ending July 2025, I looked at the cerium. Most recent data we had. Delta ran a 72.5% load factor. And it's only that good because of summer, where it, it runs higher loads, it's worse the rest of the year. So the unit cost may be lower on that airplane, which is great, but you just don't need the seats. And so this goes to the mantra of breeze, right, Trip cost. And so it's maybe at the other end of the scale, but you know, Taipei is a pretty big market in general. But if you have that many seats, how do you go into even smaller markets?
- [10:20]
B
I think you're missing the important point here. If Delta did not fly Seattle to Taipei, how could people convince themselves that their sky miles were worth any value?
- [10:31]
A
Because that's the one route you can redeem miles on.
- [10:33]
B
Pretty much.
- [10:35]
A
Fair enough.
- [10:35]
B
All right, you want to talk about the rest of the widebody fleet.
- [10:37]
A
Go for it.
- [10:38]
B
I will. And of course I'm a product guy at heart, so that's a little bit what I'll focus on. You know, Delta has some, some decent transatlantic airplanes in terms of size and things like that. The A330s, the, especially the, the Neo versions, the 767s that Glenn Howenstein loves to fly over the Atlantic.
- [11:01]
A
And it shows.
- [11:03]
B
The 767s that Glenn Howenstein likes to fly over the Atlantic are a good airplane for the airline and for investors. But I think we know that people sometimes avoid them because the product isn't so great. Luckily, Brett, that's mostly an east coast airplane. And as I'll remind the listeners, we don't live there, but I've heard that they are not going to be retrofitted. So it looks like Delta is just going to ride out those things until they die. I do think that some of the pushback on that airplane is a little bit unfair. Right. We talked about how Delta maybe doesn't have a Pathfinder over the Pacific over the Atlantic. You know, you're talking about 30, 35 year old airplanes that are fully paid for that Delta can pretty much send wherever it wants. And even though passengers may not love, you have to assume that investors who, let's be honest here, these are the people that matter the most, are pretty happy that Delta is driving nice revenue off of an ancient and already paid for asset. There are times, not as a passenger, but as an airline observer that I see the older fleet as a feature and not a bug. This was part of a very effective Delta strategy. And I think John would have to tell us more. But I think the big reason it works is Delta tech ops is known to be pretty good.
- [12:24]
A
First of all, I'm argue with you that the investor matters the most. All stakeholders matter, Brian. And that is what makes investors happy. When everyone is happy.
- [12:35]
B
Investors own the airline, Brett. Without investors there is no airline. You gotta make sure there is no airline for your investors.
- [12:45]
A
How are you gonna get that return if no one's flying without investors?
- [12:48]
B
There's no employees. All right, let's get back to our topic here.
- [12:53]
A
Chicken or the egg here. But look what you're saying, I agree with it, is that is a good Pathfinder airplane and it works like they run it to Prague. No one else is flying Prague until this coming summer. Right. So great. Who else are you going to fly? It's good for that. But you put it on some other routes. I was looking. They fly Jfk Brussels, you have other airlines that fly that way. Much better options, better products. And we also can't forget that these airplanes are the, you call them the flagships of the transcon product. And they're going up against increasingly better products. Americans got their new planes coming out. United's got much better flatbeds up front on transcon. So the seven sixes, great weapons to have, but Delta has to be really careful about it. And they don't really have anything in that size range that replaces it anyway, so there's a lot to figure out there. But I think this goes into a broader product discussion, so let's pick that up after the break. Fast, reliable in flight connectivity is a must have. And that's why many airlines partner with SES with both KU and KA options across multiple orbits and a platform that can be tailored to meet each airline's unique objectives. SES delivers exceptional connectivity experiences everywhere airlines fly. To learn more, visit ses.com ifc and we're back. So, Brian, you want to talk more about the airline's product?
- [14:21]
B
Brett, the product is fine.
- [14:23]
A
You just said you're a product guy at heart, and this is what we get from you. The product is fine.
- [14:28]
B
Yeah, well, I feel sometimes like I also have to be the voice of the investor on here.
- [14:34]
A
Now you made that clear today.
- [14:35]
B
These are airlines, okay? They make operating margins in maybe the low teens, if they are lucky. They all dream. They talk about on the earnings calls. If we could just get to double digit margins. Not Delta, but the other airlines. These are companies that have limited ability to make capital expenditures beyond, you know, the really expensive stuff like airplanes and engines. You really want them to upgrade interiors every five years or spend a fortune on IFE for the 717 despite the fact that the airplane can't really fly more than two hours.
- [15:05]
A
Okay, I guess this isn't a broader product discussion. Well, moving on. Look, nobody's arguing they should put ife on the 717s. My big concern is that it, it is aging. And I'm not just talking about the 7.6s and the 7.5s. Have you been on any of the 7380 zeros lately? Those are starting to get pretty tired.
- [15:29]
B
With the teeny tiny TVs, with the.
- [15:31]
A
Teeny tiny TVs, those things are starting to look like they could use a little love. And it's how you present yourself to the customer, right? But maybe more people have the same feeling you do. The product is fine. Everyone mailbag us this week. Let's hear about your thoughts on the product. But I guess this brings us to something that to me shines the light on the product and the need for it to be consistent. And that is the airline's marketing, which has saved it in recent years, I would say, for many product issues.
- [16:06]
B
Now, Brett, you are on to something. You've reached the main point. Thank you. The product I think is okay. The problem or the potential problem is there may be a disconnect between what we see and in the marketing and what is actually on some of the aircraft. Now first, some nice things about Delta. Right. Delta understands marketing better than I think any other U.S. airline. And I'm pretty sure it spends more on marketing than its competitors. Executives at the airline will talk about how this is not really a transportation provider, but more like a consumer brand like a Nike or a Starbucks. Right. Really powerful brands. And then because those other brands are so powerful, people pay more for the shoes and the coffee than they really should. Delta's goal, I think with this marketing is to get a similar bump for its product. And I think it mostly works. And we know that Delta outperforms on revenue. But here's where I think that there's a potential problem. I'm not sure that Starbucks has good coffee or that Nike makes the best shoes. But I do know one thing, both companies are pretty darn consistent with what they produce. Starbucks coffee, it pretty much tastes the same all over the world. That's why I drag my jet lag self there at 6am in Singapore when I can't sleep. I need a coffee and I know exactly what it's going to be be like. So if we go back to product, I think Delta might over promise sometimes what it delivers because unlike a Starbucks, which is a mediocre cup of coffee, but it's the same everywhere. You have this problem with Delta and I think that Delta knows it. Where passengers may go to the airport because of what they've seen and think they're getting on an A350 and maybe they're going to spend some time in the Delta One lounge. But actually they're in Atlanta. There is no Delta 1 Lounge. And they're on an older widebody airplane. And we see this stuff on narrowbodies as well. I'm sure that there are people who pay for the 7378007 that probably make a lot of money for Delta. And we get on the airplane, they're like, what is this? This doesn't match what I saw in that magazine. I've always thought Brett that, you know, there are some truly premium airlines, but a lot of them are government funded or semi government funded and they're also very small, so they can be consistently very premium. But I actually think that what Delta should aspire to be is not like this four season style over the top luxury that sometimes we see in the marketing campaigns, but more like if we're talking hotels, the Marriott of the sky, the airline that you fly when you just want everything to go pretty well and be pretty comfortable, that you're gonna get a more or less consistent experience. And what you get in Tokyo is the same as what you get in Amsterdam. What you get in New York is the same thing that you get in Atlanta. So yeah, I don't think there's a problem with the product. I do think that there is occasionally some problem with the messaging of the product. And I do hear this anecdotally from friends who fly Delta.
- [19:35]
A
I think my biggest problem with the messaging is that they still haven't figured out how to name the app Delta instead of Fly Delta. Do they not understand how annoying that is to like scroll through and not find it under Delta?
- [19:48]
B
I've never noticed that problem, but I'm sure somebody there will take this note and change that for you.
- [19:52]
A
They definitely will not do that, trust me. But no, I, I want. See this is what I wonder about with the, the messaging, right? Does that, does that buy them time on product or does it shine a harsher light on it the way that, that you talk about. Because you could look at this in a couple of different ways. If you think about this the Southwest way, for example, in the old days, right, Southwest was the on time leader, the triple Crown. They had everything, they were the best operator and they had all the super low fares and everything was amazing. In the later years, none of that was true. It was, it was just not reality.
- [20:29]
B
And they still had the brand halo. I mean these things do last, right?
- [20:33]
A
So that's my point on that is maybe, you know, you get on that 717 or you get on an old 75 and you think, oh well this is still Delta and they love me and I love them and you know, it's hard to make it perfect so I'll give them a pass on this one and then they get on that brand new 321 Neo next time and all is right again. Or do people look at it with a harsher eye? I'm not really sure.
- [20:57]
B
Yeah, I think for now the Delta brand is very trusted and the airline has done a Lot of impressive things over the years and I still think they're number one. I do wonder, like you, if this overpromising thing will eventually catch up to Delta or sometimes maybe Delta takes things a step too far. So people have probably seen that Glenn Howenstein, the president over at Delta, has this idea of having basically three options for every level of Delta service. So in economy, you have basic, you have regular, and you have, I think, what they call main extra. That makes perfect sense in the economy classic cabin. It probably makes okay sense in business class, but did you see that they just introduced Delta Comfort Basic? Brett, do you know what that is?
- [21:45]
A
Yes. And as someone pointed out to me, it was the fruition of my April Fools post about the dizzying number of brands.
- [21:53]
B
But yeah, so it's Basic Economy, except that you get an extra legroom seat and they take off some perks just like they do with Basic Economy. But the important thing here is most people, I would think the vast majority of people, Brett, when they buy up to an extra legroom seat, they probably prefer a window or an aisle, right? That's why they're spending more money. If you buy basic, regular economy, whatever, it's a cheap ticket, you'll sit absolutely anywhere. And so what I find fascinating about this product is just like for regular economy, you cannot select a seat in advance. Seats are selected after check in. So you're going to pay extra for a premium seat and you have to assume you're going to end up in a middle seat. I don't understand why you would reward people who pay extra with this sort of punitive measure. Like take away some of the other goodies but not the seat selection. Because it's a different product than economy.
- [22:52]
A
Yeah, I agree. And I think you've seen this with, with upgrades, right, for elites, where elites get mad because they've got a nice aisle and a preferred seat or whatever it may be. And then an upgrade comes through and they're in a middle, like, no, no, don't upgrade me if it's a middle. Like, I don't want that. And so I think it is kind of strange that they didn't take that into account because I know they did take that into account regarding elite upgrades at some point.
- [23:17]
B
Yeah. Importantly though, Brett, I still think that Delta is a very well run airline. And because it is a well run airline, we are not going to do a multi. We're going to leave it here. There's one thing that we talked about with American that we haven't talked about in this episode. And that is leadership. And I think the leaders at Delta, considering how well the airline has done on lots of metrics, including financially, have done a pretty good job. However, Brett, a lot of these people have been at the airline for a very long time, and they're not young people. So why don't we talk about leadership at the airline and then maybe what's going to happen in the future?
- [24:00]
A
Let's do that. I think, you know, I agree historically here, if you look back to the merger or just before it, you have Richard Anderson taking over as CEO.
- [24:10]
B
What an icon, that man.
- [24:11]
A
An icon.
- [24:12]
B
An icon.
- [24:13]
A
Not a style icon like Ed Bastian, but still an icon nonetheless. Then, you know, you have Glenn Hauenstein coming in as the commercial brain. And these guys did amazing things at Delta. Unquestionably. You cannot argue with what they did. And they had such a great head start over anyone else. Right. And that wasn't just because it was the first big merger. It was because they were the first to see where this should be going. More premium focus. And they did, and it was amazing.
- [24:43]
B
Yeah. Richard Anderson was the real deal, according to pretty much every source I have. And I wish that he had not retired so soon.
- [24:51]
A
Well, you know, when Amtrak is calling, what are you supposed to do?
- [24:57]
B
Look, to me, Richard built the perfect airline. But I like that Richard didn't run away from the fact that it was, in essence, a transportation company. So all this talk about we're a consumer company and we're like Starbucks, we're like Nike. It came later. Brett, do you remember how Richard communicated to Wall street what Delta was?
- [25:17]
A
No, but I'm sure it was with a folksy Southern accent.
- [25:20]
B
It's just a great accent. That's so much of his shtick. But he used to say, and this is a direct quote that I' because I just found it, quote, we are a high quality industrial company. That's not what Delta thinks it is anymore.
- [25:34]
A
Yes. So we're not going to have any disagreement here that Richard deserves a huge amount of credit. But also, we can't underestimate the importance of Glenn here. Glenn is so important to this airline and where the strategy has gone. Yet when Richard left in 2016, it wasn't Glenn who took over, but it was Ed Bastian. Now, I. I don't know Ed personally. I did interview him in Atlanta back in 2017, but the last time I saw him, he acted like he had never heard of Cranky Flyer.
- [26:04]
B
So this is pretty much just a spite episode. I see.
- [26:07]
A
Come on, man. That's not Listen, I don't know if it's a power play or he has a bad memory or what. Either way, I find that Delta has instilled this sort of culture of fear. I'm always amazed at how little people I know. Well are willing to say to me about the airline, even off the record. So all of this is to say that my observations are coming into this mostly as an outsider. Mostly.
- [26:30]
B
Yeah, yeah. I don't remember if I said this already on the podcast, but it's a good one. So at the worst, I'll say it again. A person who worked at Delta for a long time used to say, here at Delta, we put the cult in culture. It has become a bit of a weird place. And I'm sure that in many ways it's great that people at Delta don't leak. Every company is striving for that. But you see how often we hear even from, from like listeners who say, like, I work at American and it's awful. I work at United and we're not perfect. We don't hear that from Delta. And while that's probably a good thing, you do have to wonder how they achieve that.
- [27:12]
A
I think there are very real downsides to a fear based culture. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that here, even if it stops leaks, it is such a strange feel there. And there's like this night and day type of Persona. You know, you see Ed out in public. He's such a showman, right? He loves the limelight. We've seen his sphere appearances. Or he's, you know, in his element, taking the stage and doing things that I would argue have questionable value. But that's a whole different issue. You know, he loves celebrity. Think about his deep infatuation with Tom Brady, doing whatever it is Tom Brady is doing for the airline. And from what I can tell, though, he doesn't seem to realize that I don't think this is received very well on the inside or even outside in much of the community. People may not talk to me much on the inside, but I have been told that they hate this goofy Tom Brady thing or Ed's little video on the IFE system about leadership. It just doesn't land. It's weird.
- [28:22]
B
You said the quiet part out loud there. You're right. When I talk to people from other airlines, that's pretty much exactly what they say about Ed. And sometimes there's a little eye roll in there as well. But I've been digging a little deeper and I never thought that I would be the one to publicly defend Ed Bastian on a podcast. But Ed has strengths. And some of the things that people tell me comes down to this. Delta is a Fortune 100 company. It is a gigantic company. And sometimes these companies need to be run by a CEO who understands how to navigate the financial world. There are people maybe that roll their eyes at Ed, but Wall street seems to like and trust him. And let's remember that Ed is a former CFO who's also worked in other industries. And I don't think that it's just by chance that we hear some of the same things about Air Canada CEO Mike Russo, who also was a longtime CFO. People like you and me, Brett, and probably 95 of our listeners, we love the network and revenue geeks out there, the people that just love airlines. They are fun to talk to. We think that they're the brains of the operation, and usually they are. But sometimes you still need a financial guy as your CEO.
- [30:00]
A
Okay, but there's also, you know, as we talk about with this, it seems to be the two sides of the thing. The two sides of the coin, I should say, where Ed doesn't seem to have that same level of respect and authenticity internally. Maybe Wall street is more appreciative. It just doesn't seem like it's a complete package to me. And there's something lacking there that I think makes it tougher for him to gain the trust and respect of the team. Maybe that's why you need more of a culture of fear.
- [30:37]
B
Brett, we've dropped some hints about the big aviation nerd at Delta, the man behind the scenes, the wizard of aviation, the man who I'm told does not listen to podcasts, so does not listen to this show. But we all love him. Glenn Howenstein, you're a little suspect, let's say, about Ed Bastian. Tell us about Glenn. You still like the guy?
- [31:03]
A
Glenn? Well, sure. I mean, Glenn was the commercial mind that has built Delta into what it is today. There's no question about that. But, you know, there's definitely some issues there, I think, from the little pieces I can glean here. First of all, he obviously was passed over for CEO, if he was even in the running in 2016. I don't get the sense that he is going to be seriously considered at any point. And maybe that's because he doesn't want it. Maybe there's another reason. Plenty of theories out there I've heard. But the bigger issue with Glenn is that Glenn is just a lot harder to replace than Ed. You might like Ed for his okay, CFO ness.
- [31:53]
B
Let's not go so far. I respect him for his management and financial acumen.
- [31:59]
A
Okay, fine. But you can find that elsewhere, right? It's a lot harder to replace the brain of the commercial side of an airline. It's a tougher thing to find. And I think here with Glenn, it makes it even tougher. Because as I understand it, Glenn is very much a top down kind of person. He seems to retain a lot of the control in the decisions that get made, more than you would probably expect to see at someone of that level. So. So if Glenn leaves, and it's not really if, because at some point he has to leave, he is getting old enough he's going to retire, then what happens? Undoubtedly there are capable people below him, but if they don't have as much autonomy as they should, then what happens when Glenn does leave? It's harder to fill a bigger vacuum. That is something that worries me.
- [32:53]
B
Me, this Glenn question is something that I hear the most from the financial community. They love Glenn, they respect Glenn. But they also say sometimes that there doesn't appear to be a deep bench. That doesn't mean there isn't somebody behind Glenn who can do the job. But the financial people are not speaking to those people. At least that's what they tell me. And they really only talk to Glenn. So there's some concern that maybe there's nobody behind these guys. And then of course, as we mentioned mentioned, there's Ed, And Ed is 68, I think we know he never talks publicly about retiring, but at some point he will have to retire. And I wonder who even replaces him.
- [33:38]
A
Tom Brady? Maybe not. I have no idea. Both of these guys, I mean, I've heard rumors swirling that Glenn's retirement is imminent. I think everyone's heard these rumors, but they never seem to turn into anything. So I don't really know where they go after this. That's. That's a really good question.
- [33:55]
B
Yeah, that's going to be the big thing to watch. We've done a whole episode about what's wrong with Delta. As I've said a few times, there isn't that much wrong with Delta. But you could see how this gets a lot worse when the leadership retires, a new group comes in and maybe something changes. Now, before we go, why don't we switch gears to a final bit of listener email?
- [34:18]
A
We need to share a listener haiku because apparently that's our thing now. But this one has a good point. And it's not about airlines directly. If we dish out the criticism, we need to take it, too, right?
- [34:32]
B
Ooh, something we did wrong. Read us the haiku, Brett.
- [34:37]
A
A world without her misses half of the sky's view. Air show needs balance.
- [34:46]
B
First off, I love these haikus. Keep them coming. Second, I think I understand that one, Brett, but why don't you tell us what the listener means by this?
- [34:57]
A
Well, this listener happens to be a woman, and she also happens to have noticed that all of our mailbag inquiries that we addressed in the last episode were from men.
- [35:06]
B
It's a fair criticism, Brett. Both of the show and I think the industry in general. We should all try to do better.
- [35:14]
A
You've been listening to the Air Show. If you have suggestions or questions for us or haikus, or if you're interested in sponsoring the podcast, go to our website, theairshowpodcast.com to get in touch.
- [35:24]
B
The Air show podcast is produced and edited by Sarah Fay. Our theme music is by Joshua Mosher. Thanks for listening and we'll be back soon.