Podcast Summary: The Al Franken Podcast

Episode: Ari Berman on the GOP’s Gerrymandering Plot

Date: August 17, 2025
Host: Al Franken
Guest: Ari Berman, voting rights correspondent, Mother Jones

Overview

This episode centers on the extraordinary and controversial effort by the GOP—at Donald Trump's urging—to aggressively gerrymander Texas mid-decade, aiming to secure five new Republican House seats ahead of the 2026 midterms. Al Franken and Ari Berman break down why this unprecedented political move matters, how it fits in a wider national strategy, the practical and legal implications, and why Democratic responses in blue states are ultimately limited by political and structural realities. The conversation serves as a broader warning about escalating autocracy, threats to fair representation, and the weakening of federal voting rights protections.

Main Discussion Points

1. The Texas Gerrymandering Gambit (00:09–13:12)

• Unprecedented Mid-decade Redistricting:
  • Texas, spearheaded by Governor Abbott after a direct request from Donald Trump, is pushing to gerrymander five new GOP House seats—a move highly unusual outside post-census cycles.
    • “Mid decade redistricting, as you know, is in and of itself, very rare. The last time I remember it happening was 2003 in Texas, when then House Majority Leader Tom DeLay pushed Texas to redraw its maps.” – Ari Berman (05:45)
  • Trump, or more likely his team, sought the change when polling suggested Republicans could lose the House.
• Impact on Democrats’ Path to House Control:
  • Democrats only needed three seats to retake the House; if Texas gains five new GOP seats, that number jumps to eight, making the task far harder.
    • “So if Texas adds five seats to that, Democrats need to then flip eight seats to take back the House.” – Ari Berman (05:45)
• Democratic Legislators’ Response:
  • Texas Democrats fled the state to deny the GOP quorum, as in past fights, stalling the vote on the new maps. Around 50 legislators left (11:47–12:04).
• Legal and Political Oddity:
  • The move redraws districts even where there are currently vacant seats, e.g., former Rep. Sylvester Turner’s Houston district (08:46–09:27).
  • Majority-minority districts are being dismantled or packed to dilute minority voting power, shifting representation from Black and Latino Democrats to conservative-leaning white or Latino Republicans (09:44–10:16).

2. Ripple Effects: National Gerrymandering Arms Race (13:12–18:46)

• Republican and Democratic Escalation:
  • Other GOP-led states (Florida, Ohio, Indiana, Missouri) threaten to join this mid-cycle redistricting push.
  • California’s Democratic Governor Newsom pledges to fight fire with fire and add five blue seats. But California's independent redistricting commission and the need for voter approval complicate rapid action (14:17–15:42).
• Democrats' Structural Constraints:
  • Democratic states like Illinois and New Jersey have little room to maneuver; New York can’t act until at least 2028 due to state constitutional restrictions (16:03–16:44).
  • “Democrats don’t have a dozen seats to flip. Even if they wanted to…they’re either bound by independent commissions or just don’t have enough seats.” – Ari Berman (15:42)
• Overall Prognosis:
  • Even with “the gloves off,” Democrats lack the state-level power to match the GOP’s capacity for gerrymanders.
    • “Democrats can maybe get a little less bloodied… but they’re probably going to get knocked out at the end of this fight.” – Ari Berman (17:29)

3. The Supreme Court’s Role and the Death of Voting Rights Protections (19:16–26:05)

• Erosion of the Voting Rights Act:
  • Ari outlines how Supreme Court decisions (most notably Shelby County and Rucho v. Common Cause) removed key protections.
    • “First they gutted the Voting Rights Act… Now, what the Department of Justice is arguing is that these coalition [minority-majority] districts aren’t protected.” – Ari Berman (19:39–22:27)
  • DOJ’s current posture follows a 5th Circuit decision, which the Supreme Court hasn’t reviewed, potentially opening the floodgates to more aggressive gerrymandering.
• Future Threats and the Role of Chief Justice Roberts:
  • The Court is poised to consider whether majority-minority districts even remain constitutional, threatening to finish off the VRA.
  • “Roberts has been an architect of the authoritarian takeover… in so many different kind of ways.” – Ari Berman (26:44)

Memorable Quote:

• “The Supreme Court has the power to proclaim that Trump is a king, but they’re evidently not somehow qualified enough to decide whether or not a map is illegal or not.” – Ari Berman (24:43–25:34)

4. New Barriers to Voting and Federal Interference (29:30–41:15)

• Escalating Voter Suppression Tactics:
  • Attacks on mail voting, shortening early voting, closure of polling places, voter purges, and new proof-of-citizenship requirements.
    • “They’re asking for documents that people don’t have, that cost money to obtain, that you don’t carry around with you on a regular basis to register to vote.” – Ari Berman (30:12–32:08)
  • Attempts to weaponize voter roll purges and potential criminalization of local election officials.
  • DOJ intervention in Texas cited as a harbinger of increased federal pressure on states to adopt restrictive tactics (37:18–41:15).
• Lack of Old-guard Restraints in the Trump Administration:
  • Key federal posts filled with loyalists willing to go further than previous appointees (e.g., Bill Barr) in supporting electoral manipulation.

Notable Exchange:

• Al: “Barr actually said there was no cheating in the election.”
• Ari: “Yeah. And now the Justice Department is being run by people who helped bring those arguments, by people like Pam Bondi.” (40:03–40:37)

5. Shrinking Democracy: Fewer Competitive Seats, Less Accountability (43:06–48:13)

• Impact of Gerrymandering and Partisan Sorting:
  • Both political polarization and extreme partisan mapping have reduced swing districts.
    • “Gone are the days where there’s 100 competitive districts. The number… keeps getting smaller.” – Ari Berman (45:11)
• Case Studies – Wisconsin:
  • Despite flipping the state Supreme Court, Wisconsin has not yet struck down the congressional gerrymander, likely leaving status quo in place for 2026 (47:01–48:20).

6. The Big Picture and Media Narratives (48:20–50:13)

• Normalization Concerns:

  • Ari cautions against “both sides-ism” and false equivalence as Democrats respond to GOP moves, stressing the unprecedented nature of mid-decade, White House-incited redistricting.
    • “Mid decade gerrymandering is what’s happening now, which is totally different than regular gerrymandering, and also that Trump is the one inciting the mid decade gerrymandering.” – Ari Berman (48:36)

• Legislative Note:

  • Democrats broadly support anti-gerrymandering measures (e.g., the Freedom to Vote Act), which Republicans almost universally oppose (49:50).
    • “There was a bill before the Congress…would have banned this kind of partisan gerrymandering. And every Democrat, but three, voted to ban it and every Republican voted against it.” – Ari Berman (49:50)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the difference in structural advantage:
  • “The gloves are off in a fight that we can't win, basically.” – Al Franken (17:26)
• On the increasing authoritarian drift:
  • “I think one of the most concrete ways that Trump's trying to effectuate his authoritarian agenda is to make elections functionally meaningless.” – Ari Berman (29:01)
• On shrinking competitive democracy:
  • “There's fewer competitive seats, period...both blue and red states, they've made the districts as safe as possible.” – Ari Berman (45:11)
• Closing warning:
  • “The redistricting battles are going to spread to other states…it’s just important to not normalize this.” – Ari Berman (48:36)

Key Timestamps

• 00:09 – Episode Introduction and Context
• 05:45 – The rarity and significance of mid-decade redistricting
• 09:27 – Dismantling of minority districts in Texas
• 13:12–18:46 – The national arms race and limits of Democratic response
• 19:16–26:05 – Supreme Court’s effect on voting rights
• 30:12–32:08 – Escalation of proof-of-citizenship and voter ID laws
• 37:18–41:15 – DOJ pressure and further voter purging
• 45:11 – The shrinking number of competitive House districts
• 48:36 – The danger of media false equivalence
• 49:50 – Congressional votes on anti-gerrymandering legislation

Takeaway

This is a critical, in-depth look at the ways anti-democratic maneuvers—now more aggressive and coordinated—are being normalized and accelerated in the U.S. government. The GOP, armed by Supreme Court decisions and emboldened by White House pressure, is systematically manipulating redistricting and voting rules to maintain power, with Democrats mostly unable to respond in kind. The broad warning: No matter how energized the opposition, structural barriers and autocratic legal manipulation may soon preclude meaningful electoral change—unless deliberate efforts are made to protect and restore democratic guardrails.