205: BEST OF: Scott Galloway

Summary

The Al Franken Podcast: BEST OF Scott Galloway Release Date: January 5, 2025

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Introduction

In this standout episode of The Al Franken Podcast, Scott Galloway joins Al Franken and Peter Ogburn to delve into a wide array of pressing public policy issues. Galloway, a renowned professor, author, and public speaker, brings his sharp insights to discussions ranging from the mental health crisis among young men to the intricacies of the U.S. tax system. This episode serves as a comprehensive exploration of societal challenges and potential policy solutions to foster a more equitable and prosperous America.

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The Crisis Among Young Men

Mental Health and Societal Disconnection

Galloway opens the conversation by addressing the alarming statistics surrounding the mental health of young men in America. Citing Robert Kennedy Jr., he highlights that men are "four times as likely to kill themselves as women" and face higher rates of addiction and incarceration (04:13). The discussion underscores the lack of male role models and the detrimental effects of social media, which fosters loneliness and detachment from real-world interactions.

Impact of Social Media

Kennedy Jr. elaborates on how social media exacerbates these issues by providing "a reasonable facsimile of life on a screen with an algorithm" (04:44). This digital detachment discourages young men from forming meaningful relationships and pursuing productive activities, leading to increased susceptibility to negative influences such as conspiracy theories and nationalist sentiments.

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Wealth Disparities and Tax Policy

Inequitable Tax System

The conversation shifts to the U.S. tax system, where Kennedy Jr. criticizes the existing framework as an "elegant transfer of wealth from young to old" (10:34). He points out that major fiscal policies have disproportionately benefited the older generation and the wealthy, leaving younger individuals struggling with stagnant wages and rising costs of living.

Capital Gains and Corporate Taxes

Kennedy Jr. advocates for the removal of the capital gains tax cap, suggesting that eliminating the income ceiling would ensure that the wealthy contribute a fairer share of taxes. He states, "If you're going to be a tax, just remove the cap" (12:08). Additionally, he calls for a minimum corporate tax of 20% to prevent corporations from exploiting loopholes to minimize their tax burdens.

Proposed Reforms

Galloway introduces the idea of a "donut hole" in taxation, where individuals earning beyond a certain threshold (e.g., $400,000) would face higher tax rates. While Kennedy Jr. disagrees with the donut hole approach, he emphasizes the need for comprehensive tax reforms that address loopholes and ensure equitable taxation across all income levels (12:53).

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Education and Vocational Training

Importance of Community Colleges

Kennedy Jr. lauds community colleges as "the unsung heroes in the United States" (20:49). He advocates for expanded vocational programs and apprenticeships, arguing that practical skills training can provide stable, well-paying jobs without the necessity of a traditional four-year degree. This approach would not only alleviate economic disparities but also address the skills gap in various essential industries.

Educational Accessibility

The discussion touches on the accessibility and affordability of higher education. Kennedy Jr. shares his personal journey of overcoming academic challenges to gain admission to UCLA through an appeal process, highlighting the need for more inclusive and supportive educational pathways (26:13).

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Social Welfare and Economic Policies

Negative Income Tax and Universal Basic Income

Kennedy Jr. supports implementing a negative income tax or a form of Universal Basic Income (UBI) to ensure that every household, especially those with children, has access to basic necessities. He argues that such measures would reduce "deaths of despair" and improve overall societal well-being (20:43).

Minimum Wage Increases

The dialogue also covers the benefits of raising the minimum wage, with Kennedy Jr. citing examples from California and Washington where increased wages have spurred economic growth. He emphasizes the multiplier effect of money spent by lower-income households, which stimulates the broader economy (18:22).

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Corporate Accountability and Regulation

Section 230 and Misinformation

Addressing the impact of big tech, Kennedy Jr. calls for the removal of Section 230 protections for platforms that algorithmically elevate harmful content. He argues that companies like Facebook should be held accountable when their algorithms promote misinformation that causes real-world harm, as evidenced by the $750 million settlement faced by News Corps (24:51).

Corporate Taxation and Loopholes

Kennedy Jr. critiques how corporations exploit tax loopholes to shift profits to low-tax jurisdictions, thereby reducing their tax liabilities in high-tax countries like the U.S. He stresses the need for international tax treaties and stricter enforcement to ensure that corporations pay their fair share (15:07).

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Climate Change and Environmental Policies

Climate Protections Under Threat

The conversation briefly touches on climate change, with Kennedy Jr. expressing concern over proposed policies that aim to "slash climate change protections" (36:35). He underscores the urgency of maintaining and strengthening environmental regulations to combat the escalating climate crisis.

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Political Climate and Democratic Strategy

Challenges Facing the Democratic Party

Kennedy Jr. voices apprehension over the rising influence of white Christian nationalism within American politics, noting its potential to undermine progressive gains and disenfranchise marginalized groups (36:19). He urges the Democratic Party to adopt more effective messaging and policy strategies to counteract these forces and resonate with a broader electorate.

Project 2025 and Autocratic Tendencies

Discussing recent political maneuvers, Kennedy Jr. warns against policies like Project 2025, which he likens to "The Handmaid's Tale" due to their oppressive nature (34:09). He highlights the dangers of granting excessive power to the executive branch, such as allowing the President to directly control law enforcement agencies, which could lead to the weaponization of government resources against political opponents.

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Personal Reflections and Philanthropy

Life Choices and Happiness

Kennedy Jr. shares his personal journey of prioritizing happiness and meaningful relationships over the pursuit of extreme wealth. He explains how he chose to give away surplus wealth to enhance his life’s fulfillment, emphasizing that "the smartest decision I've ever made" was to focus on experiences and connections rather than accumulating more money (30:47).

Investment in Education

Demonstrating his commitment to education, Kennedy Jr. reveals a significant philanthropic contribution of $14 million to UCLA and Berkeley to support vocational programs. This investment aims to make education more accessible and align it with the needs of the modern economy (30:00).

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Conclusion

This episode of The Al Franken Podcast showcases Scott Galloway’s incisive analysis of critical societal issues, enriched by Robert Kennedy Jr.’s thoughtful perspectives. Together, they explore comprehensive policy solutions aimed at addressing economic disparities, improving mental health for young men, reforming the tax system, and enhancing educational opportunities. Their dialogue underscores the importance of thoughtful, evidence-based policy-making to build a more just and prosperous society for all Americans.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Robert Kennedy Jr. on Young Men’s Crisis

  • “Men are four times as likely to kill themselves as women... we are producing millions of them.” (04:13)

• On Social Media’s Impact

  • “We have paleolithic instincts, medieval institutions and godlike technology... why make the effort to establish friends when you have discord and Reddit.” (04:44)

• Tax System Critique

  • “Every major fiscal legislation over the last 20 or 30 years is nothing but an elegant transfer of wealth from young to old.” (10:34)

• Capital Gains Tax Proposal

  • “If you're going to be a tax, just remove the cap.” (12:53)

• On Education

  • “Our community colleges are kind of the unsung heroes in the United States.” (20:49)

• Philanthropy and Happiness

  • “I'm going to spend all of my money on experiences that make me feel closer to family and friends and are amazing.” (30:47)

• Political Concerns

  • “It's a war on poor women... a slow, creeping erosion of the separation between church and state.” (34:27)

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Speaker Attribution

• Al Franken – Host of The Al Franken Podcast
• Scott Galloway – Guest, Professor, Author, Public Speaker
• Robert Kennedy Jr. – Guest, Former Attorney General, Environmental Advocate
• Peter Ogburn – Producer of the podcast

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This summary is intended to provide a comprehensive overview of the discussed topics and insights shared by the guests. For full context and additional nuances, listeners are encouraged to tune into the episode.

Transcript

[Al Franken]

Hey, prime members, you can listen to the Al Franken podcast ad free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon music app today. Hey, everybody, we got a great one today because it's a best of Scott Galloway whips through a ton of common sense public policy prescriptions that would make this country a better place for everyone.

[Scott Galloway]

No joke.

[Al Franken]

In the meantime, the Trump Horror show just keeps coming. Is Pete Hegseth going to be confirmed? No way. Right? Robert Kennedy Jr. He said that the polio vaccine may have caused more lives than it saved.

[Scott Galloway]

Really? Tulsi Gabbard, Is she a Russian spy? Possibly.

[Al Franken]

Is she going to be our Director of National Intelligence? Probably. We'll get the answer to those questions in this new year along with our new president, who was our old president. Donald Trump will be sworn in in a few short weeks for his second and legally anyway, last term. And you know that good sports, as we Democrats are Joe Biden and Kamala Harris will be there for his swearing in and inaugural speech, which he'll say, our four year national nightmare is over. Or I'm trying to guess what his.

[Scott Galloway]

American Carnage moment is going to be this time. So I have to say I am not looking forward to that speech, but.

[Al Franken]

I'm going to watch it. As painful as the next four years is going to be, we here on the Al Franken Podcast, and by that I mean me and Peter, will be on top of every word Trump utters and every move he makes.

[Peter Ogburn]

Really?

[Al Franken]

Yeah. That's our job, Peter.

[Peter Ogburn]

That's your job. I'm going to tune him out as much as humanly possible.

[Scott Galloway]

Really?

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Yeah.

[Peter Ogburn]

I mean, I'll. I'll listen to what you say about him. That'll be my way of keeping up.

[Scott Galloway]

Really. Well, see, I thought we'd both really stay on top of him.

[Peter Ogburn]

It's the Al Franken Podcast, not the Al Franken and Peter Ogburn podcast.

[Scott Galloway]

Wow.

[Peter Ogburn]

Wait, do you think that I've been keeping track of everything Biden says?

[Al Franken]

No, I just thought we'd divide up.

[Scott Galloway]

On, you know, paying attention to Trump, that's all.

[Peter Ogburn]

Again, it's the Al Franken Podcast.

[Al Franken]

Okay, well, we got a great one today. You know, for a change, Scott Galloway is here with me and Peter.

[Peter Ogburn]

Nice try.

[Al Franken]

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[Scott Galloway]

I heard you say on Morning Joe that we are producing too many of the most dangerous person in the world world that is a young, broke and lonely young man.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Well look, the data is pretty stark. Men are four times as likely to kill themselves as women. They're only 60% as likely to go to college. They're three times as likely to be addicted. They're 12 times as likely to be incarcerated. Look at the most violent societies in the world. They all have one thing in common and that is too many young men who have a of scant economic and mating opportunities.

[Scott Galloway]

How much of this is social media?

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

I think social media creates a lot of loneliness and gives unfortunately. Okay, so we have very, very basic instincts. We have paleolithic instincts, medieval institutions and godlike technology. And the deepest resource companies run by the most, arguably the most talented people in the world are giving young men a sense that they can have a reasonable facsimile of life on a screen with an algorithm. So why make the effort to establish friends when you have discord and Reddit? Why get a job when you can trade stocks or crypto on Robinhood or on Coinbase? And why make the effort of showering, working out, having a plan, enduring rejection, developing a sense of humor. Showering for God's sake, such that you can get a girlfriend when you have you porn. And what happens over the medium and long term is these men become sequestered from society. They don't have the guardrails of a romantic relationship. I would still be getting high every night if my girlfriend right out in college said stop getting high every Night or I'm no longer going to have sex with you. That was a powerful motivator for me to get my shit together. Romantic relationships, young men need guardrails. They need it more than women. Their prefrontal cortex literally matures later. And without the prospect of a romantic relationship or in person mentorship or in person friendship, men come off the rails. And loneliness is no worse for women. But if you look at the data, two in three women under the age of 30 have a boyfriend. Only one in three men, because women are dating older, because they want more economically and emotional viable men. And so you have this cohort of men who feel rejected by women, have less professional opportunities if they're not in the slipstream of the information economy, maybe they're not cut out for college, fewer manufacturing jobs, and they're in their home seeing more and more online content, which quite frankly leads them to conspiracy theory and is run on rage. So these young men become more susceptible to nationalist content, misogynistic content, and some they become shitty citizens. We're producing millions of them.

[Scott Galloway]

How much of it is social media and how much it seems like you're saying a lot of it is, and how much of it is public policy decisions?

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

I don't think you can lay to the feet of any one thing. I mean, one, Democrats want to blame it on social media. Republicans say it's mental health. Look, we have the second most single parent homes in the world, just behind Sweden. And Dan Quayle was right that the outcomes are worse for single parent homes. Where he got it wrong is it doesn't matter if the two parents are same sex. But the moment, the single point of failure for a boy coming off the tracks and becoming more prone to suicidal ideation, less likely to go to college, more likely to be incarcerated is when he loses a male role model. And one in three men within six years of divorce have no contact with their children. And so when you look at. Now, let's just talk about the numbers. In primary education, there are more female fighter pilots per capita than male kindergarten teachers. 70 to 80% of teachers through K through 12 are women.

[Scott Galloway]

Is that the case in other countries?

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

That's the correct question, Senator, and I don't know the answer. I don't know if it's. I know that increasingly in the US more and more men are leaving the education sector. But where I was headed with this is you have millions of men who from the age of 0 to 25 have absolutely no men involved in their lives. And we don't like to Admit it on the left or people on the left. I was told my buddy Jonathan Heights had stopped saying we. But I think people on the left, and I consider myself a proud progressive, are afraid to even say that there's a difference in the genders that boys need. Men. Now what's interesting is that girls in single parent households have similar outcomes in terms of college attendance and income and self harm. So what most of the research points to is that while physically stronger, boys are mentally and emotionally much weaker than girls. And we have just a group of young men who are much more susceptible to mental illness self harm. I mean, think about this, Senator Franken. If any other group was killing themselves at four times the rate of the control group, wouldn't we move in with social programs and more empathy? But here's the thing. Because of the advantage you and I garnered, there's no empathy for these young men.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, talk about the advantages that we garnered. First of all, I'm a baby boomer and you've talked about the wealth disparities between people on Social Security now and my generation and maybe your generation too. I'm not quite sure where you fit in on the way you calculate this, but the difference between people who are on Social Security certainly and people who aren't. There's a big disparity there.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Well, first off, let me say Social Security has been an enormously successful program. The issue is, okay, when you have when the average 70 year old is 72% wealthier than they were 40 years ago and the average person under the age of 40 is 24% less wealthy, and on an inflation adjusted basis, people your age at 25 were making $85,000. People my age were making 65 and now 25 year olds today are making 55,000. And you pair that with the fact that housing has doubled in cost and education has quadrupled.

[Scott Galloway]

And these are public policy prescriptions that have done this to some extent or to a great extent.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

I think every, almost every major fiscal legislation over the last 20 or 30 years is nothing but an elegant transfer of wealth from young to old. We have a child tax credit that gets stripped out of the infrastructure bill because it costs 30 or 40 billion.

[Scott Galloway]

Dollars, which is crazy. It was shown that that did a tremendous amount for little children and impoverished.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Families reduced childhood poverty by 40% overnight. I didn't even think that was possible for $40 billion. But meanwhile, the $130 billion annual cost of living adjustment for Social Security flew right by. $1.4 trillion is transferred from people under the age of 65 to. To the wealthiest generation in history. People over the age of 65. I'm not suggesting anyone that needs Social Security should have it taken away. But Senator, neither you nor me should get Social Security. Otherwise, let's not call it a tax. Let's call it a pension. And why does the person working for me making $160,000 pay $9,000 a year in Social Security tax? And people such as myself who make substantially more than that also pay 9,000.

[Scott Galloway]

Pay 9,000 as well? Well, should we have a donut hole? Some kind of thing where you pay more tax on your income after a certain point? Not at 160. 160 is where they cap it.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Just remove the cap. If it's going to be a tax, just remove the cap. And then what do you know? We'll start looking at it more. Once rich people start paying 6. Once Jeff Bezos starts paying 6% of his income on Social Security, we're going to start means testing it. Let's go to the two biggest tax deductions. Mortgage interest and capital gains. Who makes their money from selling and buying assets?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, capital gains tax is absolutely ridiculous.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

100%. But who does it benefit? It benefits me. 90% of my income comes from buying and selling assets and stocks. So I pay a lower tax rate than young people who make their money with sweat. When did we decide that the money that money makes is more noble than the money that sweat makes?

[Scott Galloway]

I disagree with you on raising it. Or that after 160 then you continue it. Because that would be unfair to. I'd go for a donut hole.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Say more. What do you mean by that?

[Scott Galloway]

A donut hole would mean that you pay till 160 and then maybe you start paying a bit more at 400,000.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Well, how about just 4% for everybody? No cap, lower taxes. And that's their dirty secret, Senator Franken, is if we tax the super rich in corporations and had an AMT where they all had to actually pay the. There's this giant misdirect. We have an argument over tax rates. It's not tax rates. It's the tax code. In the last 30 years, the tax code has gone from 400 pages to 4,000. And those 3,600 pages weren't to help the middle class. They were to fuck them. And it's essentially a series of loopholes that have created a tax system where the top 25 wealthiest Americans pay an average tax rate of 8.8%. And corporations pay the lowest taxes they've paid since 1939. So the super earners, though the other myth is that the rich don't pay taxes. Actually, the super earners, the workhorses. The mom's a baller lawyer, She's a partner at a law firm. Dad works his ass off and is an amazing accountant. They make one and a half million dollars a year between the two of them. They went to the elite schools, ton of work their asses off, super smart, super fortunate, making a ton of money. But it's all W2 current income.

[Scott Galloway]

Sure. So they pay taxes on all their income as opposed to.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

And they probably live in a city in a blue state and they're probably paying 48, 50, 52% tax. But if dad's chiropractic firm, if he figures out a way to start acquiring other chiropractic clinics and does a roll up with private equity and then he sells them. I'll use myself as an example. I'm very transparent. I sold my last company. First $10 million were tax free. Does that make any sense? And they say, well, Scott, you're productive. We want to encourage entrepreneurship. No entrepreneurs.

[Scott Galloway]

Why were the first $10 million tax free? You invested in it or what, 1202 qualified small business.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

And that is if you start a company or you invest in a company with less than 50 million in assets when it gets sold, if you've held the shares for longer than five years, the first 10 million or 10 times your original investment is tax free. And so Really, I invest $2.5 million.

[Scott Galloway]

I was not on the finance committee.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

You were not on the finance committee. I invest $2.5 million in a company that does exceptionally well. And I want to be clear, I've lost a lot of money in companies. The first 25 million was tax free. Every major tax loophole benefits the super rich, the super owners and corporations.

[Scott Galloway]

Let's talk about public policy prescriptions that you would make. Okay. For example, and I'm going from a list of stuff you've proffered, okay, get rid of the capital gains tax we.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Talked about to what Reagan did. One tax rate doesn't matter how you make the income. It's all one rate or one all one sort of sticker, staggered rates, alternative minimum tax. If you're either Amazon or you're Elon Musk and it ends up that you're paying no taxes because you take advantage of all these tax loopholes. Nope. Every corporation has to pay a minimum tax of 20%.

[Scott Galloway]

Where is Amazon located? Where are they?

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Well, officially. Well, they're I think, I don't think they've done a double Dutch. But I'll give you an example. Apple is, what they'll do is they have Apple International, they're in Ireland. That's right. And they license their. They give their IP to Apple International and then Apple International leases the Apple brand to Apple America and charges them tens of billions of dollars to use the brand, thereby suppressing the income in a high tax domain America and increasing the revenues in a low tax domain, thereby substantially bringing down their tax rate. And I could go on and on and on, on around these loopholes. And these loopholes benefit two groups of people, super owners and corporations. The reality is the bottom 50% of income earners pay very little federal income tax. They pay a lot in consumption taxes. They get especially hard on inflation. But the people who really get screwed in our tax code are the workhorses. They're kind of the super earners who don't own things. They make.

[Scott Galloway]

Those are the couple you talked about.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

That's right. And so it's a perfect shield for any discussion around raising taxes on the wealthy. Because when Senator Sanders or Senator Warren talk about raising taxes on the rich and then start to characterize them as bad people, a lot of people who are powerful but not super rich go, what are you talking about? I'm paying 52% tax rate, living here in Shore Hills, New Jersey, working at Goldman Sachs. They're not the people we need.

[Scott Galloway]

That's why I want the donut hole. That's why I want the donut hole.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

There you go.

[Scott Galloway]

It's for those people.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

But you could lower the tax rates if everyone paid them. You could actually reduce tax rates if it was no matter what. You made 12 million in gross income, you've got to pay at least 20% on it. If you had AMT across corporations and the super owners, I believe you could actually reduce tax rates.

[Scott Galloway]

So are there ways to do that in the Finance Committee? Are there ways to, you know that.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Better than I do. You know the mechanics of how these things work better than I do. My sense is that Washington has been weaponized by very powerful special interest groups. You know this better than I do.

[Scott Galloway]

Yep. Okay, let's try some other. Increase minimum wage to 25 bucks.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Well, okay, so let me immediately go to the, to the fears. Oh, no, you're going to suppress, you're going to, you're going to kill jobs and put tons of small businesses out of business.

[Scott Galloway]

But that hasn't happened in California.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

In California, Washington state, where they raised the Minimum wage. It increased economic growth in the economy. Why? Because the wonderful thing about middle and lower income homes is when you give them money, they spend it all. And it creates a multiplier effect. So it's actually stimulative the economy. If minimum wage had just kept pace with productivity, it'd be. Or inflation, It'd be at 23 bucks a share. It's also another example of kind of screwing the young, because that's who minimum wage really, really impacts is young people. And then they'll say, well, but McDonald's would be less profitable or Walmart would be. Yeah, you're right, they would be. And it would be worth it.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, other tax, alternative minimum tax for corporations and high earners.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Yeah. And a multilateral tax treaty where these corporations would stop this double dutch and reverse mergers into low tax domains. And we could enforce that. And we weren't we trying to do that. And we did it 15%. I don't see why it wouldn't be 25. I just, I don't understand. I mean, let me put it this way. Corporate profits have never been higher as a percentage of gdp. Wages have never been lower. So there's been a healthy tension between capital and wages. But wages, capital has been kicking the crap out of labor for 30, 40 years now.

[Scott Galloway]

A negative income tax.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Look, my attitude is, and this might come in the form of a tax credit for children, but I think if you look at deaths of despair, obesity, diabetes, depression, incarceration, I think it would be less expensive to ensure that every household either gets income matched or outright grants for food stamps or healthcare up to say $50,000. My friend Andrew Yang called it UBI. He screwed up. It was terrible branding. He should have called it a negative income tax to get Republicans on board. So what I'm basically saying is every household with children should have a certain basic level of dignity. And there's different ways to get there, but I think you'd end up saving money in terms of social services.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, here's one that I've been for for a long time is free two year college.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Our community colleges are kind of the unsung heroes in the United States. And if you look at the Cal State system in California, it's a decent role model for that. It's almost free. What I think we need is more targeted vocational programs. Because if you look at the real economy, anyone renovating a house or anyone who's familiar with construction or our plans for building nuclear power plants or has tried to get an energy efficient heater installed Knows there's a lot of good jobs available for people with basic skills. But what have we done? We've gotten rid of wood shop, metal shop, auto shop. You remember Senator, those guys in high school that were just not going to go to college, but they could fix your car and they could make shit with their hands. The economy is dying for those people.

[Scott Galloway]

How many young people now know how to repair a diesel engine?

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

I'm renovating a house, installing cabinetry. Well, you can make 80 or 100 grand a year if you know how to do that well. 11% of LinkedIn titles in Germany and the UK are the following title Apprentice. In the US it's 3%. We need to stop shaming people who don't go to college and say there are great on ramps into a great middle class life with apprenticeships for vocational programming. And I think our Cal State system, which does a really good job or our junior colleges, but our junior colleges are the unsung heroes of a US education system.

[Scott Galloway]

Here's one that we've done, we finally started to do it, which is refund the IRS. Biden got that done. I think $60 billion more added to the budget.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

I think it's important to have class traders. FDR was a class trader. Teddy Roosevelt got elected by a group of almost oligarchs running the railroads. And he turned around and said I'm going to break you up. I'm a class trader in the sense that I think you have to have wealthy people say, look, there's just certain taxes and things we should implement.

[Scott Galloway]

The IRS just announced that they have recouped a billion dollars. It's gone. Just going after people who make over a million dollars who hadn't been paying.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

First off, you're absolutely right. For every $1 you give the IRS, they give you 12 back. And they're not harassing people, they're just enforcing the tax code because of that 4,000 page tax code. Now in order to audit a wealthy person, you need a team of IRS representatives and the team is no longer there. They're just underfunded. So what I can tell you as someone who has a complicated tax return and makes really good money, the gestalt or the vibe or the incentives are the following. Be as aggressive as possible because it's unlikely you'll get audited. You know who AI audits? Now the IRS is incorporating AI, but who does AI go after? Simple taxes.

[Scott Galloway]

That has to be the lowest income, right?

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

That's right. And the people on the far right are corporations and wealthy People will say that it's harassment. All they're doing is enforcing the tax code. They're not harassing anybody. But $1 for every buck we give the IRS, they get 12 back.

[Scott Galloway]

As I said, they just announced this 1 billion from successfully funding it. Okay, here's one that you say. Remove section 230 protections.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

So230. Basically, Ron Wyden, and I forget who the second Democratic senator was in 1997, said any of these platforms, or they call them nascent technology companies, is not liable for the content on their platforms, almost like it's a bulletin board. What I would argue is that if the content is algorithmically elevated, in other words, somebody has programmed an algorithm to take certain content and elevate it, that it should no longer enjoy 230 protection. Because you're now an editor, you're now saying, I've made a conscious decision. Just an example, News Corps, they knew they were lying about Smartmatic voting machines. They knew it, and as a result, Smartmatic suffered financial harm and they had to pay $750 million.

[Scott Galloway]

I forget it was Dominion.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Yeah, but it was.

[Scott Galloway]

Smartmatic was not. It was actually not in any of the machines that they were saying was that the software.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

But the bottom line is they spread misinformation that they knew was false and it resulted in an economic harm to an organization so the organization can sue them. And News Corps had to come up with 750 million. What happened on Fox was a dumpster fire compared to the nuclear mushroom cloud of misinformation that happened on Facebook. But because Facebook is, quote unquote, a nascent platform, it's totally immune from any scrutiny. So my belief is, okay, I'm a capitalist. I think these companies create actually are net positive, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be regulated. So if you decide to elevate content because it enrages people or it just gets more clicks, then you are an editor and similar to any other media company, should be held to the same standard. So remove 230 on algorithmically elevated content.

[Al Franken]

We're gonna take a break for a moment.

[Scott Galloway]

We'll be right back. Okay, enough of that. Sorry put you through that. I want to ask you you. Because I know a little bit about your biography. My daughter is a huge fan of yours and she asked me to ask this.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Okay.

[Scott Galloway]

You and I are both kind of born somewhere in the working class to middle class, somewhere in. In between, right? At least I was. I can tell you that my dad didn't graduate high school. My mom didn't go to college, but I was a good student and I got into Harvard. So boom. If I want to have my future in anything but comedy, I had it made. Or if I wanted to go into finance or something like that. You go to ucla, but you don't get in. Right. You apply there and you don't get in because you are a bad student. Is that fair to say?

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Mediocre. I was born to a single immigrant mother. Our household income was never more than $40,000 a year, and I was not an outstanding student. I had a 3.1 GPA at a high school, and I scored 1130 on the SAT.

[Scott Galloway]

So what were you doing in high school? Yeah, what were you doing in high school?

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Not a lot, obviously. I wish I could say I was having a great time. I was just a really unremarkable kid. I was invisible. I wasn't that motivated. I was just not doing much of anything. Playing sports a little bit. But I wasn't terrible. I wasn't getting into trouble or anything. I wasn't, you know, shoplifting or. Or committing crimes. But I was. I think I was like most American kids, Senator. I think I was just a decent kid. Not. I was remarkably unremarkable. But here's the thing. America and California love me. One of the great public institutions had an admissions rate of 76%.

[Scott Galloway]

UCLA.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

UCLA. 76% at the time. At the time. And I didn't get in.

[Scott Galloway]

What is it now, do you know?

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

9.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, then we gotta do something about that.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

100%. I'm one of the 24% that didn't get in. And my dad got me a job installing shelving, and it was 18 bucks an hour, which was a lot of money in the 80s. And so I used to get in my car, haul out to Ontario and the Inland Empire, and I was literally in a closet all day long installing shelving. And the highlight of my day was I'd get ridiculously high with my co workers at the end of the workday and then turn to the highways of Southern California and go home. And I was living with my mom. And I remember coming home one day and I just kind of broke down and I got very emotional. I'm like, this is my life. I'm literally going to be in a class. And there's nothing wrong with that kind of work. But I had been told my whole life that I was smart and creative, and I'm like, this is my life. And my mom said, well, is there anything we can do? And she found out that There was something called an appeal process. And I appealed. And I remember this moment. This guy from the admissions department called me and said, and the truth has a nice ring to it. I said, I'm the son of a single immigrant mother. I have to live at home. I don't have any money. If I don't go to ucla, I'm going to be installing shelving the rest of my life. And I have plans to do more than that. Will you give me a shot? And I remember the day he called me. The admissions department guy called me and said, you're not qualified, but you're a native son of California and we're going to let you in. And I rewarded the Regents of University of California with a 2.27 GPA undergraduate GPA, which isn't easy. The only thing I learned, Senator, in college, was how to make bongs out of household items and every line from Planet of the Apes. And you know what happened after that? The greatest public institution in America, Berkeley, let me into graduate school. Imagine that with a 2.27 GPA.

[Scott Galloway]

And how do you figure that you got in?

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

I interview well. I could write well, my application. My application was strong.

[Scott Galloway]

I interview well.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

This is a flex. I'm desperate for your and your listener's affirmation, but I feel like I need to add this. Three months ago, I gave $14 million to UCLA and Berkeley. It's kind of worked out for all of us.

[Scott Galloway]

Did you just split it down the middle?

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

I'm investing in a vocational program. I think we need education to be more accessible and more affordable. And there's also a lot of great jobs out there for kids who don't necessarily need a traditional four year liberal arts degree. And I think we can leverage the infrastructure at the University of California for kids to get degrees.

[Scott Galloway]

And I've heard you say that there are so many people who are so intent on becoming a billionaire. And I've heard you say that you just, you don't want to be, that that's not your goal, that you just give it away if you're getting close or getting anywhere near close.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Well, look, you're an ambitious guy and you're always looking for the next thing. And I sold my company, my last company, in 2017, and I had big plans. I thought, okay, I have this much money, I've made my number, but I'm going to raise a private equity fund. I had a lot of contacts. I was kind of rounding third in terms of credibility. And I thought in my mind I'd really Like to be a billionaire. SCOTT Galloway, Billionaire sounded really interesting to me. And then I really sat down and I thought, what do I want from life? I'm an atheist. So the notion that at some point I'm going to look into my kids eyes and know our relationship is coming to an end is very powerful and liberating for me. And I thought, how do I want to spend the rest of my life? Because it's going so fast. I thought I just want to be really happy. And I'm like, well, what makes me happy? And I'd written a book on happiness and all the studies show too, it's deep and meaningful relationships, the number of them. And I thought, okay, I have all the money I need. I'm going to spend all of my money on experiences that make me feel closer to family and friends and are amazing. And then anything above that I'm going to give away and it makes me feel amazing. And it's the smartest decision I've ever made.

[Scott Galloway]

Could you write a book on that for other billionaires or for billionaires rather? Because if every person who asked that same question of themselves, I think that we'd have a lot more. It would help the world.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Well, what it goes to, and I think you'll agree with this, is that Daniel Kahneman, who's one of my kind of economic role models or heroes, had this thing. Basically he showed that people say money can't buy happiness. That's actually not true. Middle income people are happier than lower income. Upper income are happier than middle income. That's the bad news. The good news is that it tops out. So if the difference between having 30,000 and 50,000 makes you much happier, but the difference between 10 million and 20 million a year has no difference, then why wouldn't we have go back to where we've been for most of our history in the US With a tax rate that says pick a big number above 10 million, you're going to pay 70% marginal income tax rate, because here's the thing, you're losing nothing. You're going to lose no happiness. Your kids aren't going to be any worse off. Dynastic wealth doesn't produce happy kids. Do you want a second jet? But meanwhile we're going to take that money and make sure everyone's at least at 50.

[Scott Galloway]

What if you're a professional athlete?

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Well, that's different because you only have a few years to make a lot of money.

[Scott Galloway]

That's what I'm saying.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

That's actually a really, that's Actually, a real. I hadn't thought about that. So you just punctured my argument. You're sounding like a Republican.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm so sorry.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

That's a really good point.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, I didn't mean to do that.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, man.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

70. What is it? 70% of athletes end up bankrupt within 10 years of leaving the sport because they think they're going to make that living for the rest of their lives. But my point is, I decided I have my number. I think most people have their number, and I have my number. And I thought, well, no, I want to go bigger. I want to be in front of my name. And then I thought, no, I'm going to do amazing things with friends and family and anything above that. I track it every year. I'm going to give it away. And I just. I can't tell you how happy it makes me.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay. I asked my daughter's question. I got my answer from that. Have you been at least looking at what Project 2025 has proposed?

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Yeah, I saw season five of it last week. It's called the Handmaid's Tale. I mean, it literally is the Handmaid's Tale. I mean, you're talking about people going to jail if they know someone who terminates a pregnancy. I mean, this is where we are.

[Scott Galloway]

They would be monitoring miscarriages.

[Al Franken]

They would be.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

I never imagined I was lazy about this. I never imagined we'd be sitting here right now where 1 in 5American women have to leave their state to terminate a pregnancy. And at some point, it'll never be five and five, because this is what will happen. It'll go to three and five, maybe four and five, but the one in five, they're wealthy, will have no problem terminating a pregnancy. I don't even see this as a war on women. I see it as a war on poor women. Because you can be sure that when a wealthy dude's daughter needs to terminate a pregnancy, he'll figure it out. They'll figure it out. This is not only a war on women, it's really a war on the poor is the way I would describe it. It's also something more insidious. That's a slow, creeping erosion of the separation between church and state. Because what we've decided is that religion and legislation are no longer protected from each other. This is essentially a white Christian nationalist movement.

[Scott Galloway]

That's basically what this document is proposing. Okay, here are some of the things that it would do. 2025 give Trump power to investigate his opponents. Basically, retribution. He's talked about retribution.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

One of the things that separates us from an autocracy is it's generally accepted that our political leaders don't weaponize the assets of the government to go after their political enemies. That seems to be again falling by the wayside.

[Scott Galloway]

It would move the Justice Department and all of its law enforcement arms, like the FBI, directly under presidential control.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Same thing.

[Scott Galloway]

Yep. They'd get rid of the Education Department, so they would get rid of Head Start. And early childhood education has been shown to have tremendous return on investment.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Yeah, and I would have laughed this off a few years ago thinking it wasn't possible. And now I recognize that. No, take them at the word.

[Scott Galloway]

Do you want to hear more or you want to just. Well, okay. Well, here's one you'll love. Slash climate change protections.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Look, you have to admire the Republican Party. That basically appeals to a small minority. The majority of America are not white Christian nationalists. The majority of America are not super rich corporations or the super wealthy. And yet they appeal to a large. They appeal to 47 or 49%. They've done a much better job marketing than we as Democrats have. They're much better at messaging, and they're much more disciplined. I mean, Mexico, for God's sakes, just elected a woman who's Jewish, who was a climate. And we're talking about taking women back to old Spain. Around the world, you're seeing this ascent of women. Twice as many women have been elected to parliament in the last 30 years. You're seeing women's rights mostly expand in most Western nations. We're going backwards. So, yeah, I find it very discouraging, and I actually think it might be the issue. It might be the issue that gets the Democratic nominee back into the White House. That really is our issue. I think it resonates with a lot. About two thirds of American voters believe that terminating a pregnancy should be accessible and legal.

[Scott Galloway]

I hear you. I think we'll end on that.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

Senator, I told you this when I had you on my pod. I'm just an enormous fan of yours and I think you're a great public servant.

[Scott Galloway]

And I have yours. An eye of yours.

[Robert Kennedy Jr.]

I appreciate that.

[Scott Galloway]

So thank you so much. This has been really great.

[Al Franken]

Well, I hope you enjoyed listening. That beautiful music is by Leo Kotke. The great Leo Kotke. I want to thank Peter Ogburn for producing this podcast. We'll talk again next week.

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