The Al Franken Podcast: Catherine Rampell on Trump’s Tariffs and DOGE Release Date: April 6, 2025

In this insightful episode of The Al Franken Podcast, host Al Franken engages in a compelling discussion with Columbia University columnist Catherine Rampell. Recorded immediately following former President Donald Trump's Rose Garden speech announcing a new, sweeping tariff regime, the conversation delves deep into the ramifications of these tariffs and the broader implications for government efficiency under the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE).

1. Introduction and Context

Al Franken opens the episode by setting the stage for an "historic conversation" with Catherine Rampell, emphasizing the timing of their discussion right after Trump's significant tariff announcement. He provides listeners with an overview of Trump's tariffs, highlighting their global scope and their disproportionate impact on low and middle-income Americans.

[00:00] Al Franken: "Trump has put steep tariffs on nearly every country in the world, which will cost Americans at least a couple thousand dollars a year each."

Beyond the tariff discussion, Al touches upon recent political events, including the Wisconsin special election victory for Judge Susan Crawford, which he attributes to robust Democratic turnout despite significant financial backing from Elon Musk supporting a conservative candidate.

2. Trump's Tariffs: Analysis and Impact

Catherine Rampell offers a critical examination of Trump's tariff strategy, drawing parallels to past trade policies and their economic consequences.

a. Misrepresentation of Policy Objectives

Rampell challenges Trump's narrative, pointing out inconsistencies and inaccuracies in his statements. For instance, Trump claimed that President Biden was responsible for the highest inflation in U.S. history and asserted that Medicaid benefits would remain untouched—a claim Rampell disputes.

[05:53] Catherine Rampell: "Depends on whether you believe in the Laws of arithmetic or not."

b. Economic Implications and Trade Wars

Rampell elaborates on the likely fallout from Trump's global tariff implementation, predicting substantial costs to American consumers and industries. She references the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930, drawing a cautionary comparison to illustrate the potential for a prolonged trade war that could exacerbate economic downturns.

[24:25] Catherine Rampell: "Smoot Hawley jacked up tariffs here in the US... led to retaliatory measures elsewhere."

Rampell emphasizes that retaliatory tariffs are inevitable, with other nations targeting politically sensitive American industries such as agriculture, bourbon, and motorcycles. She underscores the inevitability of escalating tariffs, likening the situation to "an eye for an eye leaves everybody blind."

c. Market Reactions and Uncertainty

Al notes the immediate negative reaction from the stock market following Trump's announcement, suggesting potential short-term economic instability.

[26:39] Catherine Rampell: "The futures market... tanked as expected because these tariffs are like way worse even than they had been signposting in the past few days."

3. Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE): Chaos and Inefficiency

Transitioning from trade policy, the conversation shifts to DOGE, critiquing its role in exacerbating government inefficiencies.

a. Undermining Federal Agencies

Rampell provides numerous examples of DOGE's detrimental actions, including the arbitrary firing of critical personnel and the mishandling of essential services. She mentions the FDA's loss of vital tools like LexisNexis and the inability of agencies to procure basic equipment, leading to operational standstills.

[28:12] Al Franken: "The FDA lost their LexisNexis."

[28:16] Catherine Rampell: "They fired the nuclear inspectors... they can't do basic library research."

b. Impact on Public Services

The discussion highlights how DOGE's policies are crippling essential services. Rampell points out the challenges faced by the IRS, including outdated technology and insufficient funding, which impede effective tax enforcement and customer service.

[32:31] Al Franken: "This is for. From equipment."

[33:12] Catherine Rampell: "They are no longer able to do basic library research that they need to do their jobs."

c. Privatization and Cronyism

Rampell critiques DOGE's apparent favoritism towards privatization, suggesting that contracts are being rerouted to favored entities rather than based on merit or efficiency. She cites examples from NOAA and the Department of Education, where essential contracts have been canceled, leading to lapses in critical functions like weather monitoring and educational assessments.

[37:38] Al Franken: "So who's all that work going to go to?"

[37:03] Catherine Rampell: "They want that business to go to their friends. There are a lot of government contractors right now, probably too many."

4. Broader Implications and Future Outlook

The conversation concludes with reflections on the broader implications of Trump's tariffs and DOGE's inefficiencies. Rampell warns of the long-term economic damage and the erosion of public trust in government institutions. She expresses skepticism about the possibility of Trump reversing course, given his historical stubbornness and the lack of coherent objectives behind the tariffs.

[51:07] Al Franken: "That seems unlikely because that's admitting error and defeat, isn't it?"

[53:58] Catherine Rampell: "Hopefully some of this will still be relevant by the time your audience out there hears it, and we could have a totally different set of trade wars and concerns by then."

5. Conclusion

Al Franken wraps up the episode by expressing gratitude to Catherine Rampell for her thorough analysis and highlights the urgency of understanding and responding to the unfolding trade policies and governmental inefficiencies. The episode serves as a critical examination of contemporary political strategies and their real-world impacts, offering listeners a comprehensive overview of the challenges facing the U.S. economy and government operations.

Notable Quotes:

• Al Franken [05:23]: "He said Biden had the highest inflation in the history of the country."
• Catherine Rampell [24:25]: "Smoot Hawley jacked up tariffs here in the US... led to retaliatory measures elsewhere."
• Catherine Rampell [37:38]: "They want that business to go to their friends. There are a lot of government contractors right now, probably too many."
• Catherine Rampell [51:07]: "Hopefully some of this will still be relevant by the time your audience out there hears it, and we could have a totally different set of trade wars and concerns by then."

This episode of The Al Franken Podcast provides a nuanced and critical perspective on Trump's tariff policies and the operational chaos within DOGE, offering listeners valuable insights into the complexities of current U.S. public policy and governance.