The Al Franken Podcast: Dahlia Lithwick on Defending Our Constitution

Date: February 8, 2026
Host: Al Franken
Guest: Dahlia Lithwick (Senior legal correspondent at Slate, host of 'Amicus' podcast)

Overview

In this episode, Al Franken welcomes legal journalist and commentator Dahlia Lithwick to discuss the state of constitutional rights and democracy under the Trump administration. Covering pressing issues such as immigration policy, Supreme Court developments, abuses of executive power, and grassroots resistance efforts—especially in Minnesota—the discussion is both sobering and passionate. Lithwick provides expert legal context, while Franken offers insightful, incredulous, and sometimes darkly comic commentary. The focus is on how the current administration is testing the limits of constitutional norms—and how citizens are mobilizing in response.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening: Trump’s Recent Maneuvers (01:29–05:51)

• Franken opens with a satirical update on Trump’s latest antics, including:
  • Closing the Trump Kennedy Center for renovations, including plans for a “250-foot triumphal arch.”
  • Sending Tulsi Gabbard and the FBI to seize ballots in Fulton County, Georgia.
  • Suing the Treasury and IRS for $10 billion over leaked tax returns.
  • Attempting to leverage infrastructure funding in exchange for having Penn Station and Dulles Airport renamed after himself.
  • Sharing a racist video about the Obamas on social media, prompting outrage.
• Notable Quote:
  • Al Franken: “Do you trust him with our $10 billion? I don't know.” (04:19)

2. Child Detention, Family Trauma, and Community Resistance in Minnesota (06:10–11:07)

• Focus on the case of Liam Ramos, a 5-year-old asylum-seeker from Ecuador, detained with his father in Dilley, Texas—a converted Walmart “prison.”
  • ICE using children as bait to find parents, even those following proper asylum procedures.
  • The community response in Minnesota: people delivering food, supporting families too scared to leave home.
  • Ongoing trauma among children and families—heightened fears of going outside, missed doctor appointments.
• Discussion of attorney burnout: an immigration lawyer in Minnesota telling a judge, “Just find me in contempt. I can't do this work anymore.”
• Notable Quote:
  • Dahlia Lithwick: “You have to do it. And one other thing just worth flagging on this, Al, is a big legal story this week was the lawyer who essentially told a judge in Minnesota…she just can't.” (09:35)

3. Supreme Court’s Role in Enabling Harm (11:07–16:44)

• Lithwick’s argument that SCOTUS, by granting Trump near-blanket immunity and severely narrowing paths for holding federal officers accountable, makes government abuses more likely.
  • The evolution of immunity doctrines post-George Floyd: courts shield federal agents who violate civil rights due to “uncertainty” about the law.
  • Current administration officials declaring (and sometimes walking back) “absolute immunity” for border and ICE agents.
• The legal and practical dangers of Trump’s attempts to interfere in election administration, illustrated by the Fulton County episode.
  • Mark Elias, election litigator, warns that these actions are a “proof of concept” to further erode electoral integrity and federalize elections under the pretense of national security.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Dahlia Lithwick: “The Supreme Court has just been out like a juggernaut in terms of making it almost impossible for folks to be held accountable.” (12:12)
  • Dahlia Lithwick (paraphrasing Mark Elias): “He’s kind of putting down markers...this is proof of concept that he can go into election polling places and say, oh, I’m sending...because I am just claiming...that I have the power...” (15:31)

4. Barriers to Justice & Community Self-Defense (21:24–24:33)

• Ongoing obstacles to justice for victims of government violence (e.g., Alex Preddy’s killing by federal agents in Minnesota).
  • Federal interference, contaminated crime scenes, lack of cooperation with state investigators.
• The debate between judicial (neutral) versus administrative (self-approved agency) warrants:
  • Administrative warrants (now used by ICE/federal officers) are signed by the agency itself, bypassing judicial oversight.
  • Widespread refusal in Minnesota to recognize administrative warrants as legitimate.
• Notable Quote:
  • Dahlia Lithwick: “One is signed by a judge and one is signed by your own agency. So there’s no check.” (23:13)

5. Grassroots Defense of Democracy: Lessons from Minnesota (24:33–28:31)

• Minnesotans’ creative and collective responses inspire Lithwick, shifting her own advice from legal reform to community action.
  • Thousands stepping up to help their neighbors, donate, and protect vulnerable families.
  • Structural fixes (court reform, voting rights) are crucial but hard for people to connect with—now, lived experience is shifting attitudes toward democracy.
• The difficulty of rebuilding democratic norms versus the ease with which “cruel” policies can inflict harm.
  • The exodus of ICE and border patrol agents from Minnesota as an example of resistance having impact.
• Notable Quote:
  • Dahlia Lithwick: “Building democracy is really freaking hard…they can blow stuff up probably faster than we can build it up. But I do think people freaking hate this.” (27:41)

6. Institutional Constraints, Body Cams, and Misinformation (28:31–30:26)

• New regulations: body cameras for DHS agents and other reforms.
  • Benefits are limited—officers control the recording and, at times, use altered video to mislead.
  • The critical role of “citizen journalism” and bystander-recorded video as a check on official accounts.
• Notable Quote:
  • Dahlia Lithwick: “This really is a moment where...citizen journalism and civic duty says that the only thing better than body cams for everybody is 100 people with whistles who are filming this.” (29:30)

7. The Supreme Court as Trump’s Shield—and Its Limits (30:26–36:15)

• SCOTUS continues to heavily “thumb the scale” for Trump, but signs of resistance (e.g., reluctance to allow the removal of Federal Reserve governors on flimsy grounds).
  • The Court is quick to support Trump’s policies affecting rights and elections, but when it comes to the Fed—or economic matters that impact themselves—they draw the line.
  • The tariffs case looms as another test—Court seems skeptical of Trump’s overreach.
  • Ongoing Supreme Court tolerance of practices like “Kavanaugh stops”—racial profiling and warrantless stops targeting immigrants.
• Upcoming: SCOTUS to take up birthright citizenship (14th Amendment), a “bonkers Hail Mary”—Lithwick does not expect them to overturn constitutional precedent but expresses caution.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Dahlia Lithwick: “There’s almost no other way to look at this other than this hits them in the wallet. Depressing.” (34:25)
  • Dahlia Lithwick: “Any sane, plausible reading of the text and history of birthright citizenship holds that the words mean exactly what they say…” (34:48)

8. Supreme Court Transparency, NDAs, and Institutional Secrecy (40:47–43:41)

• SCOTUS’s increased efforts at secrecy post-Dobbs leak: all clerks now sign binding NDAs.
  • Lithwick argues that lack of transparency—from recusals to financial conflicts to decision-making—undermines public trust.
  • Targeting clerks is symbolic, missing the root accountability problem with the justices themselves.
• Notable Quote:
  • Dahlia Lithwick: “The clerks are not the problem. The problem is the justices.” (43:41)

9. The Road Ahead: Defending Elections with “Our Bodies” (44:00–47:27)

• Lithwick’s final message: the energy Minnesotans use to stand up for their neighbors now needs to be harnessed to protect elections.
  • Trump allies threaten to put ICE at polling places, demand voter data as a pretext for intimidation.
  • Democracy is “really fragile”—requires not only legal but bodily, collective action.
  • Encourage proactive voting: early voting, mail-in ballots, community poll monitoring, bringing others to the polls.
• Notable Quote:
  • Dahlia Lithwick: “We are starting to learn with our bodies what democracy looks like and it’s really scary. And people are heroes for putting their bodies on the streets. We are going to have to learn with our bodies what voting looks like and what protecting the vote looks like.” (46:13)

Memorable Moments & Quotes (with Timestamps)

• On Trump’s request for infrastructure naming rights:

  • Franken: “Trump Station and Trump International Airport…Schumer told Trump that he doesn’t have the power to do that.” (03:43)

• On the weaponization of law and administrative power:

  • Lithwick: “The Supreme Court has just been out like a juggernaut in terms of making it almost impossible for folks to be held accountable.” (12:12)

• On the resilience of Minnesota’s communities:

  • Lithwick: “People are bringing…are doing amazing things for people who can’t leave their homes or won’t leave their homes…” (24:33)

• On the shift from legal fixes to community organizing:

  • Lithwick: “We need to fix it…has just, like, on a dime turned into like, oh, democracy is the thing that’s going to save us…and it's going to require not necessarily structural Senate reform, but like people's bodies on the streets.” (26:45)

• On the dangers facing the next election:

  • Lithwick: “Elections don’t run themselves. They’re incredibly fragile…all of this amazing civic energy…has to be directed with equal force to protecting elections.” (44:00)

• On the Supreme Court’s self-interest:

  • Lithwick: “There’s almost no other way to look at this other than this hits them in the wallet. Depressing.” (34:25)

Conclusion

With incisive legal analysis and a sense of urgency, Dahlia Lithwick and Al Franken illuminate just how precarious constitutional democracy has become under Trump’s renewed presidency—and how citizens, particularly in Minnesota, are finding new ways to resist and defend their communities. The main takeaway: while courts and politicians may falter, the real hope lies in civic solidarity, vigilance, and direct action, especially as the next election looms.

[End of Summary]