The Al Franken Podcast

Episode: Franklin Foer & Anne Applebaum on The Globe in 2025!
Release Date: December 14, 2025

Episode Overview

Al Franken welcomes renowned journalists Franklin Foer and Anne Applebaum—both contributors to The Atlantic—for an incisive, sardonic retrospective of world events during Donald Trump’s first year back in the White House. The panel dissects the diplomatic, humanitarian, and domestic turbulence generated by abrupt policy shifts, foreign entanglements, rampant cronyism, and the tilt toward autocracy. Through candid conversation laced with Franken’s trademark humor, the episode explores the state of democracy, international alliances, and the prospects for recovery.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Global Ripples of Trump’s Second Presidency

• Summary of 2025’s major events: Franken sets the scene by highlighting broken promises (e.g., Trump’s claim to end the Ukraine war “on day one”) and controversial initiatives like the seizure of Venezuelan oil tankers—moves widely seen as both punitive and self-serving. [01:01–05:54]
• Remark: “This is about regime change so that Trump and his pals in the oil business can get a piece of that action.” — Al Franken [04:31]

2. The Erosion and Consequences of U.S. Foreign Aid

• USAID shutdown: Under “Musk as head of Doge,” USAID aid was cut dramatically, often based on conspiratorial internet theories.
• Humanitarian costs: Applebaum recounts witnessing the withdrawal in Sudan, sharing a harrowing conversation with a young doctor apologizing for not “wasting” lifesaving American food packets. [06:36–11:14]
  • Quote: “He wanted me to know as a representative of the United States that he wasn’t wasting them... for me, it was unbelievably embarrassing.” — Anne Applebaum [09:29]
• Systemic expertise loss: Foer warns of the collapse of institutional soft power and wisdom due to high-level dismissals and resignations. [11:14–13:31]
  • Quote: “There’s no manual for how you conduct American foreign policy... all the people who remember how to do these sorts of things, are gone.” — Franklin Foer [12:38]

3. Israel, Gaza, and the “Zombie” Ceasefire

• Ceasefire maneuvering: Trump claims to broker peace, leading to a temporary halt, but fighting and intractable governance issues persist.
• Unresolved crisis: Gaza is physically and politically split; humanitarian and diplomatic solutions are absent. [13:31–19:41]
  • Quote: “Gaza is bifurcated into two separate territories... the western part is an immense pile of rubble.” — Franklin Foer [16:12]
  • Skepticism: “I thought it was fake from the beginning... I never understood who was going to be the force that would run it.” — Anne Applebaum [18:41]

4. The Middle East: Corruption, Realpolitik, and Saudi Influence

• Trump’s priorities: First foreign visits are to Gulf states, echoing patterns of business-friendly diplomacy.
• Transactional foreign policy: Massive Saudi and Qatari business investments in the Trump and Kushner empires are interwoven with U.S. policy shifts and scandals (e.g., ignoring Saudi human rights offenses and the Khashoggi murder). [19:42–23:16]
  • Quote: “We’re willing to defend things about Saudi Arabia that even the Saudis are embarrassed to defend.” — Franklin Foer [22:21]

5. The Rise of New Authoritarian Patterns and Media Capture

• Media consolidation & autocracy: Discussion of the Kushner-backed, Saudi-funded attempt to take over Warner Brothers—and by extension, CNN—drawing overt parallels to Hungary, Turkey, and Russia where government influence subtly warps editorial independence.
  • Quote: “A censor is not a guy with a thick pen... censorship is done through pressure and control of ownership.” — Anne Applebaum [27:03]
• Competitive authoritarianism: The administration prefers to shape the media landscape through leverage, not direct censorship, mirroring tactics seen in global autocracies. [27:03–29:18]

6. Ukraine, Russia, and the Business of Peace

• Comparative corruption: Applebaum draws distinctions between Ukraine’s self-investigating anti-corruption bodies and the U.S. “grand scale corruption” of the Trump era.
• Trump’s and Kushner’s direct negotiations: Deals with Russia allegedly center more on business interests than on security or stability, with Ukraine pressured to cede occupied territory.
  • Quote: “It looks like the Russians wrote it. And there are a lot of pieces of Russian propaganda that keep appearing in Trump’s conversation and statements.” — Anne Applebaum [37:52]
• Diminished democracy advocacy: U.S. national security strategy now sidelines democratic priorities, even viewing Europe with hostility. [41:04–44:38]

7. Venezuela: Espionage, Resource Grab, and Manufactured Crisis

• Military intervention ambiguity: Multiple layers (drug war rhetoric, economic interests, political distraction) shroud the motives for U.S. actions near Venezuela.
  • Foer’s Reflection: “At some point there’s going to be a civilizational war where you’re going to invade us... this is just further evidence of this guy being an idiot. There’s no way in which the United States is ever going to invade Venezuela.” [50:02]
  • Applebaum: “Maybe the war is designed to give [Trump] an excuse... maybe it’s really about the oil... but they have made no attempt to explain it.” [52:17]

8. Tariffs and Global Economic Disorder

• Tariff chaos: Trump employs tariffs inconsistently, seemingly for personal or political gain, confusing both allies and adversaries.
  • Quote: “There were tariffs on Ukraine, but not Russia... the tariffs seem to have a political purpose.” — Anne Applebaum [59:27–61:01]
• China policy falters: Former strategies to contain China have backfired; partners like India drift towards Beijing. [61:01–62:11]

9. Corruption, Institutional Degradation & the Slide Toward Autocracy

• Comparison to American history: The Trump administration is repeatedly described as “the most corrupt in our history.” [40:23–40:50]
• Concerns over regulatory independence: Fears loom of the Supreme Court dismantling agency independence, opening regulatory decision making to overt executive (and thus, political/crony) control. [64:02–65:17]
• Quote: “That is just a rush to autocracy.” — Al Franken [65:17]

10. The Prospect for Recovery and the 2026 Midterms

• Hope for congressional resistance: Applebaum and Foer express that remedies are possible if Congress asserts itself forcefully against kleptocracy and anti-democratic tactics.
• Risks to midterm integrity: The Trump administration is actively seeking to shape midterm outcomes by manipulating voter rolls and ID requirements.
  • Quote: “There are all kinds of small ways in which the administration is trying to shape these midterms... that I think is going to be a big theme.” — Anne Applebaum [65:21–67:12]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “This is about regime change so that Trump and his pals in the oil business can get a piece of that action.”
  — Al Franken [04:31]

• “He wanted me to know as a representative of the United States that he wasn’t wasting them... for me, it was unbelievably embarrassing.”
  — Anne Applebaum [09:29]

• “There’s no manual for how you conduct American foreign policy... all the people who remember how to do these sorts of things, are gone.”
  — Franklin Foer [12:38]

• “Gaza is bifurcated into two separate territories. One where most of the population is, where Hamas is in control, and then the eastern part of Gaza, where the Israelis maintain control. The western part of Gaza is an immense pile of rubble.”
  — Franklin Foer [16:12]

• “A censor is not a guy with a thick pen... censorship is done through pressure and control of ownership.”
  — Anne Applebaum [27:03]

• “We’re willing to defend things about Saudi Arabia that even the Saudis are embarrassed to defend.”
  — Franklin Foer [22:21]

• “It looks like the Russians wrote it. And there are a lot of pieces of Russian propaganda that keep appearing in Trump’s conversation and statements.”
  — Anne Applebaum [37:52]

• “There were tariffs on Ukraine, but not Russia... the tariffs seem to have a political purpose.”
  — Anne Applebaum [59:27–61:01]

• “That is just a rush to autocracy.”
  — Al Franken [65:17]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:01] – Episode framing: Trump’s divergence from campaign promises, international news
• [06:36] – USAID collapse and Sudan’s humanitarian crisis
• [13:31] – Israel/Gaza ceasefire, aftermath, and unaddressed questions
• [19:42] – Trump’s Middle East dealings, influence of foreign money
• [23:16] – The Khashoggi murder, U.S. foreign policy “for sale”
• [27:03] – The media landscape’s slide toward authoritarian control
• [34:22] – Corruption in Ukraine vs. corruption in the United States
• [37:30] – The Ukraine “peace” deal and Russian propaganda
• [41:04] – U.S. foreign policy’s alienation from democratic ideals
• [47:25] – Venezuela: murky motives and escalating interventionism
• [59:27] – Tariff policy as erratic, personalized statecraft
• [62:53] – Prospects for democratic recovery, importance of midterms
• [65:17] – Rush to autocracy and urgent need for Congress to act

Conclusion & Forward-Looking Notes

The panel’s tone is both grave and laced with wit; the episode is an urgent clarion call about the erosion of democratic norms, the dangers of unchecked corruption, and the fragility of America’s global standing. But Applebaum and Foer stress that oversight and activism matter—especially as the midterms approach—and Congress and the public retain the ability to resist democratic backsliding.

This summary captures the substance, distinctive moments, and underlying tone of a sobering year-in-review episode, equipping anyone who missed the conversation with both the narrative arc and critical highlights.