Podcast Summary: The Al Franken Podcast – Michael Lewis on Amazing Government Workers

Episode Information

• Title: Michael Lewis on Amazing Government Workers
• Host: Al Franken (ASF Productions)
• Guest: Michael Lewis, Bestselling Author
• Release Date: May 18, 2025

Introduction

In this engaging episode of The Al Franken Podcast, host Al Franken welcomes renowned author Michael Lewis to discuss his latest bestseller, "Who Is Government?". Lewis, celebrated for his insightful explorations of complex systems in books like Moneyball and The Big Short, delves into the often-overlooked heroes within the U.S. government. This conversation serves as a compelling antidote to contemporary critiques of government inefficiency, highlighting the dedication and brilliance of federal employees who work tirelessly behind the scenes.

Exploring "Who Is Government?"

Al Franken opens the discussion by introducing Lewis's new book, noting its essential role in countering the negativity surrounding government institutions, particularly in the wake of controversial actions like the dismissal of key Department of Energy officials.

Al Franken [07:08]: "I think the first time that we ever talked was about the fifth risk in the book. You looked at the Commerce Department."

Michael Lewis [07:14]: "Yeah, it's three quarters of the Commerce Department."

Lewis explains that a significant portion of the Commerce Department comprises the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), primarily focused on the weather service. He emphasizes how attempts to privatize such critical public services, like the unsuccessful nomination of the CEO of AccuWeather to lead NOAA, threaten the integrity and accessibility of vital government functions.

Al Franken [07:31]: "It's three quarters."

Michael Lewis [07:33]: "And the biggest part is the weather service, and it's the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Yes, I remember that."

Highlighting Government Heroes

Lewis shares compelling stories of dedicated federal employees that form the backbone of his book. He focuses on individuals like Arthur A. Allen, a Coast Guard oceanographer whose innovative work in understanding how objects drift at sea has been instrumental in saving countless lives.

Michael Lewis [15:06]: "Arthur A. Allen starts throwing stuff into the Long Island Sound and measuring how it drifts depending on what it is and classifies a couple of hundred object, different kinds of objects."

Al Franken is profoundly impressed by Allen's contributions, detailing a scenario where Allen's research enabled the Coast Guard to locate a missing person from a cruise ship, a feat previously deemed impossible.

Al Franken [16:00]: "Missing for like off a Carnival cruise ship?"

Michael Lewis [16:00]: "Yeah, just like off the side of the ship. He's like cannonballs off the ship in the middle of the night. And, and the cruise ship can go look at his cameras and say, oh, we see the object going off three hours ago, but he will have drifted."

Another notable figure discussed is Christopher Mark, a former coal miner who transitioned into solving the critical problem of preventing mine roof collapses—a leading cause of coal miner fatalities.

Michael Lewis [19:08]: "His dad was a guy named Robert Mark. He was very famous for an engineer. Robert Mark had invented a technology that enabled him to stress test things like Air Force fighter planes."

Franken and Lewis explore the personal and professional journeys of these individuals, underscoring their commitment to public service and the profound impact of their work.

Heather Stone and Innovations in the FDA

The conversation shifts to Heather Stone, a dedicated FDA official working on treating rare diseases. Lewis narrates the story of Stone's development of Cure ID, an app designed to help doctors track and share treatments for rare conditions like the brain-eating amoeba Balamuthia.

Michael Lewis [27:48]: "She's got an app called Cure id, and the app is for doctors."

Stone's efforts represent the critical intersection of government initiative and innovative solutions to medical crises, showcasing the essential role of federal employees in advancing public health.

Michael Lewis [29:59]: "It's all moving in the wrong direction right now."

Critique of Government Cutbacks and Policies

Lewis provides a scathing critique of recent government policy changes, particularly under the influence of initiatives like Project 2025. He argues that the reduction in federal support and the dismantling of essential agencies like USAID, NOAA, and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau undermine the government's ability to function effectively.

Michael Lewis [32:26]: "They made mistakes that even they acknowledge are mistakes, but they are their mistakes. Like shutting down the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is a really bad idea."

Lewis emphasizes that these cutbacks not only impair immediate government functions but also pose long-term risks by weakening the infrastructure that safeguards national and global well-being.

Michael Lewis [33:42]: "The government's filled with all these, or the society is filled with all these bombs and fuses attached to the bomb. And the government's job is to prevent the fuse from being lit."

Notable Quotes

• Michael Lewis [10:00]: "But it's clearly more about preventing the government from doing what it's meant to be doing and using it to do something else."

• Al Franken [34:58]: "I'm the richest man in the world and therefore the smartest man in the world."

• Michael Lewis [30:03]: "What really needs to happen is we need to empower and fund Heather Stone so that we have this resource."

Conclusion

In this insightful episode, Michael Lewis provides a compelling narrative that humanizes the often faceless machinery of government. Through his interviews and research, Lewis illuminates the indispensable contributions of federal workers who ensure the nation's safety, health, and functionality. Al Franken and Lewis's discussion not only celebrates these unsung heroes but also offers a critical examination of the current political climate's detrimental impact on government efficacy. Listeners gain a renewed appreciation for the value of a strong, well-supported government in safeguarding public interests and fostering innovation.

Final Thoughts

"Who Is Government?" serves as a timely reminder of the vital role government employees play in maintaining the fabric of society. Michael Lewis's work encourages readers to look beyond political rhetoric and recognize the dedication and expertise that drive government institutions. This episode of The Al Franken Podcast is a must-listen for anyone interested in understanding the true essence of government and the people who make it work.