Molly Jong-Fast on The 2025 Elections!

Summary

The Al Franken Podcast

Episode: Molly Jong-Fast on The 2025 Elections!
Date: November 9, 2025
Host: Al Franken
Guest: Molly Jong-Fast (journalist and New York Times writer)
Summary by: Podcast Summarizer AI

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Episode Overview

In this lively and trenchant episode, Al Franken is joined by Molly Jong-Fast to break down the surprising results of the 2025 off-year elections. The conversation explores Democratic victories across key states, the impact of Donald Trump on the electorate, policy issues influencing voters, and the dynamics around gerrymandering and redistricting. The hosts also discuss the new mayoral landscape in New York City, national political maneuvers, and the rising challenges to democracy leading up to the 2026 midterms.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Democratic Sweep in 2025 Elections

• Host's View: Al introduces the episode by highlighting Democratic wins in gubernatorial races (notably Mikey Sherrill in NJ and Abigail Spanberger in VA), and legislative gains, as well as the significance of California’s Proposition 50 (redistricting).
• Al Franken (03:50): “Democrats won big all over the country. Maybe my theory is maybe because Americans don't like Trump so much, or at least the job he's doing.”
• Electoral Margins:
  • Mikey Sherrill (NJ) won by a 13-point margin, far exceeding expectations.
  • Abigail Spanberger (VA) won by 15 points.
  • Virginia legislature: Dems picked up 13–14 seats (05:28).

2. A Referendum on Trump?

• Ollie (co-host, 08:33): "So was this a referendum on Trump?"
• Molly Jong-Fast (08:40): Expresses frustration with the “hot take industrial complex” that doubted Democratic candidates and underestimated voter backlash against Trump:
  • “Donald Trump got into the culture. He got low frequency voters out there and they voted for him and... it wasn't necessarily a referendum on policy as much as it was just a very... a lot of post Covid drama and a lot of people sort of liked Trump and they were willing to just destroy themselves on him again.”

3. Skyrocketing Turnout & Voter Motivation

• Highest turnout in NJ in 30 years; “huge turnout in Virginia and... NY and California” (Ollie, 10:57).
• Cost of Living, SNAP, Tariffs:
  • Molly Jong-Fast (11:22): Points to policy failures, especially Trump’s “reverse philanthropy” and SNAP (food stamp) cuts.
  • On tariffs: “Trump said, if you vote for me, I will make things cheaper. He turned around and made things more expensive” (12:09).

4. Federal Employees in Trauma

• Firings and chaos among federal workers, especially in Virginia, motivated a backlash:
  • Molly Jong-Fast (13:44): “He’s put them in trauma. And it turns out that if you put someone in trauma, they no longer vote for you.”

5. Trump’s Interference in State Races

• Trump’s direct and indirect involvement in NJ/VA, attempts to punish local leaders (e.g., cancelling the NJ-NY tunnel to spite Schumer) (14:33).
• Cittarelli’s failed argument (“I’m friends with Trump, I’ll protect you”) fell flat given Trump’s open hostility to New Jersey's interests.

6. The Rise of Zoran Mamdani: NY’s New Mayor

• Molly Jong-Fast (16:38): Discusses Mamdani's focus on affordability, rent control, and his effective, honest campaign:
  • “You don't have to promise them everything, but you have to try. And that's where we get back to... the sins of the 2024 cycle... Like, your constituents... know you can't necessarily cancel all student loan debt... but they want you to try.”
• Challenges of being NYC mayor:
  • “That is a terrible job. ... It is a managerial job. It is not an ideological job.” (19:15)
• Mamdani’s popularity is attributed to clear, concrete economic messaging and representation as a young, attractive, diverse candidate—unlike the corporate Democratic “veepification” of political speak (21:55).

7. Proposition 50 & Gerrymandering Wars

• Prop 50 in California:
  • Molly credits Tom Steyer and Gavin Newsom for their bold moves. The initiative added five Democratic seats, offsetting five Republican seats created by TX gerrymandering (24:20-25:54).
• Tit-for-Tat Gerrymandering:
  • TX & CA strategies explored; concern about the emergence of a “dummy-mander” as shifting electorates threaten party assumptions (29:30–31:29).
  • “If you have an electorate that shifted this much… you may have just made a reliably red seat a blue seat…” (30:53).

8. Immigration, ICE, and Outrage in Texas

• Paxton and Abbott’s harsh deportations and militia tactics face public backlash. Deportations to wrong countries, denial of due process, and attacks on Latino communities discussed (28:53).
• Molly Jong-Fast (29:05): “Our government is actively doing the kind of things that the Hague, in fact, puts people in jail. These are things the Hague prosecutes... None of this is how we do it in this country.”

9. 2026 Midterms — What Happens Next?

• Risk of gerrymandering backfiring if electoral swings continue.
• “Is what happened last night a reflection of where America's gonna be in a year?” (Ollie, 31:36)
• “We haven't seen like, we've seen a little bit of what Trump has planned, but we really haven't seen it...” (Molly, 32:13)
• SNAP cuts, food banks, and National Guard in suburbs all sign of political overreach.

10. Fears of Election Suppression & Authoritarian Moves

• Expectation of federal troops and increased “election monitoring” by Trump-aligned forces in 2026 (34:32–35:10).
• Need for Democrats to prepare for intense election oversight, legal fights, and safeguarding democratic norms.

11. The Never-ending Shutdown & Trump’s Self-Enrichment

• Ongoing government shutdown—longest in history (35:33).
• Discussion of the extravagant Trump “Great Gatsby” party at Mar A Lago as SNAP cuts loom (36:42):
  • “You wanna know what the initiation fee is for the Winter White House? ... $1 million.” (37:11)
  • “Between the crypto and the clubs, and the crypto is amazing.” (37:41)
• CZ (Binance founder) pardoned after investing $2B in a Trump family crypto venture.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Molly Jong-Fast (08:53):
  “The kind of bitter disappointment I have towards the hot take industrial complex that told me Mikey Sherrill was just not that good a candidate… my man had been running for state office in New Jersey for nearly a decade. Okay, like, stop it.”
• Molly Jong-Fast (11:22):
  "You basically had the richest man in the world practicing reverse philanthropy with our federal government, cutting cancer research for children."
• Molly Jong-Fast (13:44):
  “So he's put them in trauma. And it turns out that if you put someone in trauma, they no longer vote for you.”
• On Mamdani (16:38):
  “They want their electeds to try… voters just want you to try.”
• On the corporate wing of the Democrats (17:30):
  “Modern, a lot of these more corporatist Democrats are like, well, the math on making eggs cheaper doesn't work. You're running for office, just run for office. Say you're gonna try.”
• On Mayor of NY Job (19:15):
  “That is a terrible job. ... It is a managerial job. It is not an ideological job.”
• Molly Jong-Fast (29:05):
  “Our government is actively doing the kind of things that the Hague, in fact, puts people in jail. These are things the Hague prosecutes... None of this is how we do it in this country.”
• On Democrats' messaging (21:55):
  “The veepification of Democratic speak… you put a Mara and a car and then you get America. You know, like that kind of thing where it's like that doesn't say anything.”
• On Trump & the shutdown (37:11):
  “You wanna know what the initiation fee is for the Winter White House? ... $1 million.”
  “Between the crypto and the clubs, and the crypto is amazing.” (37:41)

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Time-Stamped Highlights

• 05:00—Analysis of key Democratic victors and impact on congressional control.
• 08:40—Was this a referendum on Trump? Molly’s frustration with media narratives.
• 11:22—Policy issues (SNAP, tariffs, Musk austerity) drive voter anger.
• 14:33—Trump’s direct role in punishing Democratic-leaning states.
• 16:38—Analysis of Mamdani’s winning strategy in NY mayoral race.
• 24:20–25:54—California’s Prop 50: How Dems countered GOP gerrymandering.
• 28:53—Excessive deportation and human rights concerns in Texas.
• 31:36—Can these results last? The looming 2026 midterms.
• 34:32—Fear and preparation for election suppression.
• 36:42—Trump’s ostentatious personal gain amidst national crisis.

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Tone and Style

The conversation is candid, sharp, and a bit salty (plenty of swearing and sarcasm). Molly Jong-Fast brings irreverence and anger at political hypocrisy and inaction, while Al Franken punctuates with dry humor and historical perspective. The episode is rich in current events detail, with a focus on both the policy and the politics shaping the American landscape.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a comprehensive, sometimes raucously funny, and passionately argued analysis of the 2025 elections, highlighting Democratic strategy, the perils and potential of gerrymandering, and the ways Trumpism continues to shape and disrupt the U.S. political scene. Both the peril and possibility of the coming year—and the specter of the 2026 midterms—are underscored by the hosts’ pointed observations and memorable one-liners.

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Summary ends — For those who missed the episode, this summary covers all the substantive content, context, and memorable exchanges of a pivotal Al Franken Podcast.

Transcript

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[Al Hunt]

Hey everybody, we got a great one today. You know, for a change. Molly Jung fast joins us again. You know Molly from MSNBC and now as a writer for the New York Times. And she joins me to talk about Tuesday's elections, which went well for Democrats. Something went well for Democrats. Hey, don't jinx it, Al. Hey, I'm celebrating it. Democrats won big all over the country. Maybe my theory is maybe because Americans don't like Trump so much, or at least the job he's doing. Two new governors, Mikey Sherrill in New Jersey, who was supposed to be in a squeaker against Republican Jack Chattarelli, whom Trump campaigned for by zoom, Cheryl kicked his ass, won by 13 point margin when the experts said it was going to be a squeaker. Sheryl was roommates with Abigail Spanberger in Congress, both members of the class of 2018, when Democrats picked up 40 seats. That was after the healthcare fight when John McCain put his thumb down to the relief of Americans who had finally figured out what Obamacare really did for them. Spanberger was expected to win and did so going away by 15 points statewide. Virginia, of course, is home to a lot of federal employees. Many of them were fired by the Trump administration. Doge OMB Secretary Russell Vogt famously said that he wants federal employees to be in trauma. Well, I wouldn't say that the Trump administration is in trauma this week, but Democrats in Virginia picked up 13 or 14 seats in the state legislature, which means they have the votes to gerrymander and add one or two Democratic congressional seats. I say go for it. Of course, Proposition 50 passed overwhelmingly in California, which should give Democrats the five new seats to offset the five new Republican seats that Republicans added in Texas. All this is terrible. By the way, this is not how congressional maps should be drawn. But they started this this year in Texas. Of course, red states will actually end up picking up more seats this way. Ohio, Missouri, and North Carolina have already added Republican seats. Nationally, they'll probably end up with a few seat advantage from these newly gerrymandered seats. But if this 2025 election is any indication, we have a very, very good chance of taking the House next year. Even if there are troops in the streets to suppress votes. It's a dark time in our history, folks. But of course, Zoran Mamdani is the mayor elect of America's largest city, winning handily over Andrew Cuomo with 78% of voters age 18 to 29. From the very beginning, Mandani made his campaign about affordability. Who knew New Yorkers cared about affordability? He hit rent control, free buses, free childcare, and it resonated like crazy. Now I believe he will be New York's first Muslim mayor. I should check that out. And an immigrant. I think the first mayors of New Amsterdam were immigrants from the Netherlands. Will Mandani be able to achieve his ambitious agenda? I'm pulling for him now. He says he's going to raise taxes on the very top income earners in New York City by 2%. Will that drive the rich out of the city? Of course not, because they love this city and they love the incredibly expensive clubs they can belong to in New York. Oh, and Pennsylvania came through reelecting three Democratic Supreme Court justices to 10 year terms. So while there hasn't been a lot to celebrate for a while and there's still a whole other stuff to bonus out, it appears things could be looking up. During arguments, the Supreme Court seemed to be tilting against Trump's tariff regime, which has been contributing to inflation and hurting American companies that import stuff and Americans who have paid for it. The court agreed with Neil Kochal, who argued that terrorists are taxes and that it is Congress's purview to impose taxes, not the President's. Now, this isn't necessarily good news, but Nancy Pelosi announced that she's retiring after the end of this term at at the age of 85, the only woman speaker in the history of the House. I was in the Senate when we passed the Affordable Care act. And even though we had the majority in the House, Pelosi had to twist a lot of Democratic arms to pass a bill that matched what we had done in the Senate so we could actually get the thing made into law. Nancy Pelosi, one of the greatest speakers in our nation's history. So there's that. On the more tawdry side, last Sunday, 60 Minutes revealed that Trump pardon Changpeng Zhao, also known as CZ, the founder of the cryptocurrency exchange Binance, who invested $2 billion into a Trump family crypto venture. In 2023, CZ pled guilty to money laundering and served a four month prison sentence, but he's been pardoned. So I guess it's good news that we live in a time when ex con can redeem himself and invest $2 billion. Bad news, Trump still refuses to negotiate an end to the shutdown, now the longest in history. I'm sure if Trump just met with Thune Schumer, Mike Johnson and Hakeem Jeffries, they get the thing ironed out and hungry Americans will get their full snap benefits and get air traffic controllers back at full strength for the holidays. Franny and I and our son's family will hopefully be flying to LA to visit our daughter's family. So get this thing settled and include ACA subsidies, for God's sakes. Of course, if they don't, Democrats will use that to help win the 2026 midterms. But let's turn to Molly Jung fast. And Tuesday's elections, we got a great one, you know, for a change.

[Ollie]

Hi, I'm Ollie.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Hi, Al.

[Al Hunt]

Thanks for coming on. What did last night mean to you?

[Ollie]

We were recording this on Wednesday. So was this a referendum on Trump?

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah, I mean, like, there's so many stupid things I want to talk about.

[Ollie]

Go ahead. That's why you're here.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

I'm so, like, the kind of rage I have towards. Towards. Rage is the wrong word. The kind of bitter disappointment I have towards the sort of hot take industrial complex that told me that Mikey Cheryl was just not that good a candidate and that the polls were tightening and that Cittarelli, he really had it this time. My man had been running for state office in New Jersey for nearly a decade. Okay, like, stop it.

[Ollie]

She won by what, 14 or 13.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Points over performing Kamala Harris by seven points. Shifting, I mean, it wasn't as much of as radical maybe as Virginia, but she absolutely shifted many, many districts to blue. And the thing is, like, there's so many. I have sat on so many panels, I'm sorry to get ornery here. I've sat on so many panels where, like, men have told me that the problem is that Democrats are not in touch with the electorate. It's. The problem is this. The problem is that. And like, maybe that's true, but it also can be true that, that Donald Trump got into the culture. He got low frequency voters out there and they voted for him and they turned out for him. And Harris base did not turn out for her. And it wasn't necessarily a referendum on policy as much as it was just a very. A lot of post Covid drama and a lot of people sort of liked Trump and they were willing to just destroy themselves on him again.

[Ollie]

Well, what we saw on Tuesday was the turnout soared.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah.

[Ollie]

The highest turnout in New Jersey since, like, in 30 years. Huge turnout in Virginia and in New York, New York City and in California, where the redistricting initiative passed overwhelmingly.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah.

[Ollie]

What was this? Is this about the cost of living or SNAP or.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

I mean, I think, look, you won't find anyone who will say to you that it was Elon Musk with a chainsaw dancing around the stage wearing several MAGA hats. So I'll say it. That fucking dipshit. You basically had the richest man in the world practicing reverse philanthropy with our federal government cutting cancer research for children.

[Al Hunt]

Cutting.

[Ollie]

Yeah. USAID killing millions who could have been.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Kept alive with pennies on the dollar. So I would say that that's certainly why. One of the many, many reasons, I think, SNAP cuts to tariffs.

[Al Hunt]

High.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah, tariffs. I mean, Trump said, if you vote for me, I will make things cheaper. He turned around and made things more expensive because of tariffs. I mean, like, it's not even like he turned around and tried to make things cheaper, but he couldn't. It's like, no, he turned around and did something that actually made things more expensive.

[Ollie]

More expensive. Yeah. We kind of swamped the competition, the opposition everywhere. Margins in Virginia were expected, but as you say in New Jersey, she exceeded all these expectations.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah.

[Ollie]

In Virginia, you got it. Because of doge and federal employees being fired or trying to fire him. Because he couldn't this time.

[Al Hunt]

Right?

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah. So a lot of this stuff is, like, being fought out in court. So, like, will he be able to fire all these people? Will he have to pay back pay? Some of the firings will stay and some of them won't. Right. So I think this will be one of those kind of. But Virginia, I mean, Virginia is a state filled with federal employees, many of whom have been as, to quote Russ Vaught, Heritage foundation, now head of omb, many of whom have been put in trauma. That's what Russ Vaught.

[Ollie]

That was his goal. He wanted to put them in trauma. Yes.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

So he's put them in trauma. And it turns out that if you put someone in trauma, they no longer vote for you.

[Ollie]

Especially if they tell you that's their intention.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yes.

[Ollie]

And New Jersey was supposed to be close for Mikey Sherrill. She won by 17.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah. No, 13.

[Al Hunt]

13.

[Ollie]

Oh, 56. 43.

[Al Hunt]

That's right.

[Ollie]

Yeah.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Seven more than Harris. She beat Harris's margins by seven.

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[Al Hunt]

What was Trump doing? I mean, Trump cut this.

[Ollie]

The construction of the tunnel, the rail tunnel from New Jersey to New York to punish Schumer.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah, because he was mad at Chuck Schumer. He cut the rail tunnel. Chitterelli was like, I'm friends with Trump, so I can protect you. And don't worry if you elect me. This is the Cuomo thing too. If you elect me, then I'll protect you. But like, you can't really make that case when Donald Trump has canceled your biggest rail project already, even before the election.

[Ollie]

Well, he said that Ciarelli said that because he was friends with Trump that he could get it back.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah. And I think that was. And Donald Trump did, he did get tangentially involved with both races. I win some Sears run her for everything.

[Ollie]

He got tangentially race involved in the Virginia race. I thought.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

No, I think just, I think he did tell a. He did a telerally for New Jersey. Yeah.

[Ollie]

For Cittarelli.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah. But, but like winsome Sears run her for everything.

[Al Hunt]

She was a lieutenant governor who ran against Spamberger.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Like she is. I, I, she should definitely keep running because she's just incredible. Like, I just keep her going. The stuff she says is everything she's out of her mouth is amazing.

[Ollie]

She was the Republican in Virginia.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah.

[Al Hunt]

Okay.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Incredible candidate. Just if you google her, everything she says is insane. Like, it's one insane thing after another. It's just like you're like, wait, that doesn't sound right.

[Ollie]

Okay, let's talk about Mamdani. He was the first in the cycle really, to talk about affordability. I mean, you've been talking about it from the beginning of his campaign.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

I mean, I was on the ground with Sheryl's campaign. So they will say to you that they talked about affordability a ton too. I mean, look, part of when you look at the exit polls in that mayoral race, what I think Is interesting is you have a high number of people who voted for Zoran who did. In fact, they knew like voters are not stupid. So they knew they weren't necessarily going to get free buses though. There's an argument to be made that our buses, that that's not such a pie in the sky idea and it does come from Bloomberg. But like, there's an argument to be made that like they want their electeds to try. You don't have to promise them everything, but you have to try. And that's where we get back to like the sins of the 2024 cycle. Like, you didn't have to say I'm going to end the war in Gaza, but you did have to have a Muslim speaker at the dnc. You got to try. Like, your constituents don't necessarily want you to. They know you can't necessarily cancel all student loan debt unless you work for ice, in which case then you can, but they want you to try. And that is, I think, a failure of some of modern Democrats, the sort of more corporate wing is that they refuse to make. Like Donald Trump is out there being like, I'm gonna make eggs cheaper. Okay. He has no plan for that. And you know, modern, a lot of these sort of more corporatist Democrats are like, well, the math on making eggs cheaper doesn't work. You're running for office, just run for office. Say you're gonna try. Like that voters just want you to try.

[Ollie]

Well, Mandani, you heard his speech, right?

[Molly Jong-Fast]

I did not hear his late night speech.

[Ollie]

Oh, okay. It was very ambitious.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah.

[Ollie]

He basically said he's going to do.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

All this stuff or worth a shot, right?

[Ollie]

Yeah, I think he's going to be actually able deliver on this stuff. But what you're saying is you say what you want to deliver and then you try to accomplish all that.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

The biggest problem Monda me has is that he is the mayor of New York.

[Al Hunt]

Mm.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

That is a terrible job. It's like, I think that the Saturday Night Live cold open from last week really did nail it. It's a terrible job. It is a managerial job. It is not an ideological job. And it's a city that is enormous, that's filled with bureaucracy. And the goal here also is to make things cheaper for people in an economy that is in the process, at least at the federal level, of doing the largest transfer from the poorest to the richest when it comes to the Medicare cuts, Medicaid and the SNAP cuts and all of the sort of many ways in which Elon Musk has tried to make the federal government work for.

[Ollie]

Billionaires and some millionaires and the Affordable Care act subsidies.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

So it's a very. What he wants to do is hard for me to imagine that that will be easy to do. But I still think, like, you have Democrats who are sitting around paying consultants tens of thousands of dollars to ask them how to get people to give a shit about them. And then you have this guy who people are obsessed with. And I have to wonder if instead of being terrified of him because he's Muslim and because somehow that's gonna lead to something which no one, by the way, no one can articulate to me what that will lead to. But it's bad for the Jews. How electing someone of a different religion is bad for the Jews, I don't get. But instead of just like all this insane hand wringing, I think the Democratic Party should be like, why is this guy so popular?

[Ollie]

I think he's popular because he did. I mean, he focused so clearly on rent control. Right, right. And on free buses and on free childcare.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

I mean. Yes. And also, I'm telling you, like, Harris had a very fulsome economic message that involved childcare, that involved caring for elderly people, that involved plans and plans and more plans. And like, you know, Latino men were like, we're out. And white non college educated women were like, no, thank you. So, like, the question is, here's somebody who likes.

[Ollie]

Is this a stylistic thing, so you're saying, or.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

I mean, I think it's you. I think, I mean, I think it's a combination of like, clear messaging, charismatic, very attractive young candidate who's able to deliver ideas in a way that is not, you know, like one of the biggest failures, I think, of Democratic politics of the last decade has been the like, veep. Veep. Ification of Democratic speak. The, like you put a Mara and a car and then you get America. You know, like that kind of thing where it's like that doesn't say anything. Like that doesn't do anything for me. You know, like, I need you to like actually say you're going to do stuff for me. And I think, I think that is the biggest. But I also think it's just the way he did it, the message. He's young, he's attractive, and he also looks like the rest of the city.

[Ollie]

Right.

[Al Hunt]

He said in his election night victory speech that New York is going to have a mayor who's an immigrant.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah, but we're also gonna have a mayor who's part of the elite too. Right. Whose mother who is son of a successful filmmaker and an academic who's went to Bank Street. I mean, I'm not criticizing him as someone who grew up that way. I have a lot of nachos for it. But I'm just saying more that it's like the freak out about him does not feel like it matches anything that makes any sense.

[Ollie]

Well, God bless him and good luck.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah, it's a terrible job. I mean, you know, the most interesting thing about that job is that no one has ever gone on to do anything after it.

[Al Hunt]

They tried Giuliani, Bloomberg, even de Blasio ran for president. So let's go on to Proposition 50.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Proposition 50, baby.

[Al Hunt]

Yeah.

[Ollie]

What was. Did they have a final total on that? They called it before it was.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

I.

[Ollie]

Somebody had a graphic last night that I was looking at had. It was called for him with zero percent in for both. I mean, had zero. I mean.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

So I interviewed Garcia today, Robert Garcia from California, ranking member of oversight. And he said it's like in the 60s, but there's another tranche of mail in ballots that are more Democratic leaning that are coming out. So I don't know where it ends up. That's a great example of Tom Steyer. I mean that whole thing is a victory. Newsom really killed it when it came to that. He did something bold and something that was really important and he really staked his whole political career on a ballot initiative of an off year election that had to be pulled together in two months and he killed it. And there were a number of like real good actors in there. And you know, I spend a lot of time bitching about the world's the really the terrible wealthy people who I've grown to really dislike. But let me just say, my man Tom Steyer, like good for you.

[Ollie]

He ran for president when I don't.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

I think 2020.

[Ollie]

Okay. Uh huh.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

But he's been like a great, good environmentalist and. No, no, sometimes there are good billionaires, you know.

[Al Hunt]

Yeah. We're talking about Prop 50 in California, of course.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah.

[Ollie]

And so that. That's five seats, right?

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah. Yep.

[Ollie]

And how's that going to balance that? That cancels out Texas. Five seats. I like that Trump went after Newsom for doing this because it was doing exactly what he did in Texas.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah. So let's just talk about this gerrymander because it is like one of my favorite stories. So we have these Texas state leaders, Abbott and Paxton. One is more corrupt than the next. I still think Paxton has Abbott beat because Paxton has the divorce going, and he's running for the Senate and he was supposed to be impeached, but then he had his donors go around and say he was going. So I think Paxton has it. But either way, both these men believe they are the future of the Republican Party, and they believe that Donald Trump will bestow this honor upon them. And all they have to do is give him five House seats. So they were more than happy to do it. I don't think they thought that Newsom would checkmate them. Now, here's the wrinkle which I think is really important is now, as we're in this new normal and we look at the results from last night, we're seeing big shifts in the electorate. It turns out that demolishing the East Wing and creating your own militia is not super popular with the American electorate. I'm shocked, for one. Totally shocked. Voters don't like it when you just demolish federal buildings.

[Ollie]

And also without like, getting permission or like telling anybody or just suddenly one day it's being demolished.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

This is how my man works. And also he has a private army. So this stuff, it seems like this may affect the electorate. By the way, if I had a dollar for every fucking panel I was on, talking about how Democrats could win Latino voters back. How about not arresting them, deporting them and sending them to Louisiana? How about not denying them of their due process? I mean, this fucking guy squandered. Squandered so much. Anyway, let me ask you.

[Ollie]

Let me ask you about that in terms of, you must know this, Americans polling on this. I mean, basically, he said he was going to get the worst of the.

[Al Hunt]

Worst out of the country, right?

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah.

[Ollie]

And I think anybody's paying attention is seeing that. No, they're just getting people who are not here legally, but other than that. Or sometimes they arrest people who are here legally and. But they're taking people here, been here for 30 years, have held jobs, raised families and deporting them.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah. And by the way, often they're deporting them to places they're not from. So it's one thing to deport someone back to Mexico, and it's one thing to do it when they haven't lived in Mexico in a decade. It's another thing to deport them to Venezuela when they haven't lived in Mexico in a decade. Our government is actively doing the kind of things that the Hague, in fact, puts people in jail. These are things the Hague prosecutes bombing boats in the Caribbean because you think they might be drug boats, but you also think they might be fishermen, but who cares? Because honestly, you know, whatever. I mean, you know, if you're not in war, you can't kill people and ask questions later. So technically, maybe they're all drug dealers, but, like, none of this is how we do it in this country. Right? Like, you know, and we're not at war with the Caribbean. So, like, there are just so many moments in here that are so fucking stupid that I can't even. I don't hope you don't mind if I curse. But the point.

[Ollie]

I think I fucking cursed may have sailed.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

But, yeah. So look, so the question is just back to the gerrymandering for two seconds. So if you gerrymander enough, you go from an R + 26 to an R + 9. Okay. And you say, all right, I have, I'm going to make, I'm going to spread out my R's so that I can have all R's in the state. So instead of having an R plus 27, I'm going to have an R plus 9 and an R plus 10, 5 and an R plus 7. Okay.

[Ollie]

That's basically saying you're counting votes in the district.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Right. So your districts are, you know, they're weighted a little less red, but it's still red enough so you can't get past it.

[Ollie]

Right.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

But here's the problem is if you have an electorate that shifted this much, like Democrats, flip two seats, two state seats, state, not state legislative, but like two state level seats in Georgia, first time since 2006. So if you do that, then if you have an R4, that may actually not be a safe seat anymore. So you may have just made a reliably red seat, a blue seed, and you get to a place where you tip yourself into a dummy mander.

[Ollie]

Well, a lot of this just depends on what the midterm vote is going to be like. So that's the question.

[Al Hunt]

Yeah.

[Ollie]

Is the midterm. Is what happened last night a reflection of where America's gonna be in a year?

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yes.

[Ollie]

And if it is, some of this gerrymandering may not work, is what you're.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Saying, or it may bite them in the ass big time.

[Ollie]

That's what I'm saying.

[Al Hunt]

Yeah. Not work for them.

[Ollie]

So you think last night is. It's a year away. Is it an indication that the midterms are, I mean, normally on off years, the out party wins.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah. Here's the thing. We haven't seen like, we've seen a little bit of what Trump has planned, but we really haven't seen it. Right. The market's still pretty buoyant. Right. The tariffs have been paid by consumers, but. And we're definitely seeing certain states or certain parts of the economy, maybe recession, maybe not, but there's still this big AI bubble. So we're not quite seeing pure, unadulterated Trumpism yet. And the SNAP cuts are. The administration was forced to pay out snap. Now they're saying they don't want to. They don't have the money. They might not have.

[Ollie]

They started putting out the snap payments yet.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Some of them have. Yes, yes. Depends on the state. Some states are suing. It's all like, state. You know, I talked to the mayor of Detroit before this. They are setting up food banks for people who are supposed to get SNAP benefits. So there's all sorts of things that are going to get worse that are actually going to get worse. Like, Trump has done a lot of threatening. Right. Like he sent the National Guard into the fancy white suburbs of Chicago and made some suburban dads real mad, in case you want to see what suburban dads look like when they have ICE goons showing up in their neighborhoods.

[Ollie]

Now, why have they done that? To provoke people.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

It's the voter outreach Democrats need. Why have they done it? They've done it because Trump is very mad at Pritzker, because Pritzker has really gotten in his crawl. I think he wants to punish blue states and blue cities. I think that he has decided that ICE is his militia. But, I mean, I can't think of a better reason. And by the way, they're not deporting at the numbers that Biden did. They're not deporting at the numbers that Obama did.

[Ollie]

We worry, of course, about him putting federal troops in every state for the next election.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Oh, and as well, we should. I mean, I think, for sure. Like, I think that is a real worry that we should all have. And one of the things that we saw. So Trump said he wanted to have election monitors in New Jersey and also in California. And he, in the end, decided he did have some. And what is gonna have to happen is that if you are a state where Donald Trump demands election monitors, you're gonna have to. Democrats are gonna have to supply their own election monitors. So this is gonna be a really, really, I think, scary midterm with a lot of just things that could go wrong.

[Ollie]

Not to talk about the next general election.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah.

[Ollie]

Is the shutdown gonna end?

[Al Hunt]

Are we.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

I mean, I think the Sean Duffy, you may remember him from Road Rules, talking About how he cannot guarantee that the planes will fly in the sky. That was pretty, pretty rough. Look, Trump knows that Republicans are losing on the shutdown. We saw that. With that reporting today. He wants Thune to break the filibuster. You know Thune? You think Thune's gonna break the filibuster?

[Ollie]

Somebody's gonna have it. I mean, it's now the longest ever, and people are going, what the, what the fuck? But I don't see either side doing it.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah, I don't either.

[Ollie]

I don't know Thune. I know Thune, but I don't know him that well. But I think Trump is going to have to intervene. This could go on and on, I suppose.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah, it absolutely could.

[Ollie]

You wrote a piece recently, the Great Gatsby Party, that Trump threw it at Mar A Lago.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yeah.

[Ollie]

And this was, what, a day after it announced that food stamps or that snap was gonna be cut.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

So on the Friday night of the weekend of the, like, what's gonna happen to food stamps at the Mar A Lago Club, which is the, the Winter White House, as we call it, by the way. You wanna know what the initiation fee is for the Winter White House?

[Ollie]

What is it now?

[Molly Jong-Fast]

$1 million.

[Ollie]

Really? Yeah, I, I, I just recorded a podcast with someone who wrote an article from New Yorker how much money the Trump family is making this presidency, and it's in the, like, 3 billion area. Just for this year.

[Al Hunt]

Yeah, the year ain't over.

[Ollie]

I think, in fact, the article's written in August or something.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

No, no, I mean, they're between the crypto and the clubs, and the crypto is amazing.

[Ollie]

How much. And that guy cz, is that the.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Guy who, Chinese guy that they pardoned. And then Trump said, I'll tell you what, I don't even know who he is.

[Ollie]

He gave $2 billion into one of their crypto funds.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Yep.

[Ollie]

Auto put in it. I don't think he.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

We gotta get James Comer to investigate this, my man. You know, my brain is so filled with useless bits of information. Like, I, you know, it's really dark, sorry to tell you.

[Ollie]

I think, I think that you have more useless information than I have these days.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

But, but I'm pleased to report.

[Ollie]

But I've got plenty of useless information, too. Just before we go, any thoughts on, on Dick Cheney?

[Molly Jong-Fast]

No.

[Al Hunt]

Nope.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Nope.

[Al Hunt]

Yeah, Nope.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

I mean, I could say. What? All right, I'm going to say one thing, which is like, no. No.

[Al Hunt]

Okay.

[Ollie]

Well, thank you. Let's hope this election bodes well for the midterms and let's hope that people get their snap.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Goodbye. Thank you for having me.

[Ollie]

You bet. Thank you.

[Molly Jong-Fast]

Bye.

[Al Hunt]

Well, I hope you enjoyed listening. That beautiful music is by Leo Kottke, the great Leo Kottke. I want to thank Peter Ogburn for producing this podcast. We'll talk again next week.