The Al Franken Podcast: Norm Ornstein on Another Terrible Week in D.C.

Release Date: March 23, 2025
Host: Al Franken
Guest: Norm Ornstein
Duration: Approximately 38 minutes
Transcript Excerpts: Provided content between [04:22] and [39:49]

1. Introduction

Al Franken opens the episode by promoting his appearance in the Netflix series The Residents, an eight-episode murder mystery set in the White House residence. He highlights his role as a Senate committee chairman investigating the death of the White House chief usher, setting a light-hearted tone before delving into serious political discussions with his guest, Norm Ornstein.

2. Attempt to Dismantle the Department of Education

[04:22] Norm Ornstein:
“Trump is expected today to sign an executive order to instruct education secretary Lyndon McMahon to begin dismantling the agency, which cannot be closed without the approval of Congress. Right?”

[04:38] Political Analyst:
“Correct. Exactly.”

Ornstein and his co-host discuss President Trump's anticipated executive order aimed at dismantling the Department of Education without Congressional approval, raising concerns about a potential constitutional crisis. The conversation highlights the critical role of the Department in funding special education and supporting low-income schools through federal tax dollars.

[05:18] Norm Ornstein:
“This sounds like a nightmare for K through 12 schools, certainly, and for universities and just community colleges.”

The analysts emphasize the catastrophic impact of defunding the Department, citing studies like the North Carolina food stamps study, which demonstrates the direct correlation between financial support and student performance.

3. Trump’s Policies on Ukraine

[08:54] Norm Ornstein:
“Let's move to something that's really just bothers me so much that just makes me want to cry is Trump abandoning Ukraine.”

The discussion shifts to President Trump's approach to Ukraine, particularly his stance that weakens U.S. support for Ukraine amidst its conflict with Russia. Ornstein criticizes Trump's negotiations with Putin, suggesting that the U.S. is inadvertently serving Russia's interests.

[10:05] Political Analyst:
“It may not matter, because in almost everything that he's doing... it's a wet dream of Putin and the Kremlin that's being fulfilled.”

They argue that Trump's actions not only undermine Ukraine but also harm American economic interests by disrupting the flow of funds to U.S. weapons manufacturers, which could lead to decreased support from European allies and damage the American economy.

[15:36] Norm Ornstein:
“I'm wondering if, can Ukraine buy American weapons directly from the manufacturers or not?”

The conversation highlights the complexity of weapon supply chains and the potential for Trump to impose an embargo, further destabilizing Ukraine's defense capabilities and weakening NATO alliances.

4. Deportation Practices and ICE Actions

[16:10] Norm Ornstein:
“Who were deported out of our country without any kind of due process.”

Ornstein condemns the Trump administration's deportation of Venezuelan immigrants to El Salvador, where they face harsh conditions without due process. He provides specific examples of innocent individuals being wrongfully deported, including a celebrated Venezuelan soccer player and a French scientist critical of Trump.

[19:44] Norm Ornstein:
“We know that there are some innocent men among them. Well, that is unconscionable.”

The hosts criticize the use of the Alien Enemies Act and the administration's disregard for legal norms, emphasizing the moral and legal failings of these deportation practices.

5. Government Shutdown Discussion

[27:07] Norm Ornstein:
“If the Democrats vote to shut it down, do the Democrats get blamed for it or do the Republicans get blamed for it?”

The discussion moves to the narrowly avoided government shutdown, attributing blame to Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer for capitulating under pressure from House Republicans. They explore the potential consequences of an extended shutdown, including financial instability for government employees and essential services.

[24:39] Norm Ornstein:
“Nobody gets paid during a shutdown.”

Ornstein elaborates on the hardships faced by government workers and contractors during a shutdown, arguing that prolonged closures would lead to widespread chaos and economic distress.

6. Future Legislative Actions and Reconciliation Bill

[32:34] Norm Ornstein:
“So what is next? Aren't we looking into the future of a reconciliation bill?”

Looking ahead, Ornstein and his co-host discuss the looming reconciliation bill, a significant piece of legislation that could pass with minimal Republican support due to its structure. They express concern over the potential for drastic policy changes, including further erosion of social safety nets like Medicare and Social Security.

[33:38] Norm Ornstein:
“We have near complete unity in the House.”

The analysts warn that the reconciliation process could lead to substantial policy shifts favoring Republican agendas without sufficient bipartisan collaboration, further entrenching political division.

7. Closing Thoughts

[35:00] Norm Ornstein:
“We got a problem getting a base that stays focused and understands that it has to show up at the polls no matter what obstacles they put in place in 2026.”

In their closing remarks, Ornstein and his co-host reflect on the Democratic Party's internal divisions and the challenges they face in maintaining voter support amidst political turmoil. They stress the importance of rebuilding the party's communication strategies and policy frameworks to better resonate with the electorate.

[38:03] Norm Ornstein:
“What Schumer did not only was mistaken as a strategy, but it's unleashed an even greater level of acrimony and internal bitterness within the Democratic Party.”

Ornstein concludes by highlighting the broader implications of current political strategies, urging for a more unified and effective Democratic approach in future elections.

Key Insights and Conclusions

• Constitutional Crisis Risks: The potential dismantling of the Department of Education poses significant legal and societal challenges, threatening crucial support for low-income and special education students.

• Ukraine Policy Critique: Trump's approach to Ukraine and negotiations with Putin may undermine U.S. interests, weaken NATO alliances, and harm the American economy by disrupting defense funding.

• Deportation Practices: The administration's indiscriminate deportations lack due process and violate human rights, damaging the U.S.'s reputation and straining international relations.

• Government Shutdown Consequences: Prolonged shutdowns would have severe economic and operational impacts, highlighting the necessity for responsible governance and bipartisan cooperation.

• Reconciliation Bill Concerns: Upcoming legislative actions could lead to significant policy shifts without adequate checks, exacerbating political divisions and undermining social safety nets.

• Democratic Party Challenges: Internal divisions and strategic missteps threaten the Democratic Party's ability to maintain voter engagement and effectively oppose Republican agendas.

Notable Quotes:

• Norm Ornstein [04:22]:
  “Trump is expected today to sign an executive order to instruct education secretary Lyndon McMahon to begin dismantling the agency...”

• Political Analyst [10:05]:
  “It may not matter, because in almost everything that he's doing... it's a wet dream of Putin and the Kremlin that's being fulfilled.”

• Norm Ornstein [16:10]:
  “Who were deported out of our country without any kind of due process.”

• Norm Ornstein [27:07]:
  “If the Democrats vote to shut it down, do the Democrats get blamed for it or do the Republicans get blamed for it?”

• Norm Ornstein [35:00]:
  “We got a problem getting a base that stays focused and understands that it has to show up at the polls no matter what obstacles they put in place in 2026.”

This episode offers a critical examination of the current political landscape, emphasizing the detrimental effects of executive overreach, flawed foreign policy, and internal party discord. Norm Ornstein provides a sobering analysis of the challenges facing American governance and the Democratic Party's efforts to navigate a deeply divided political environment.