← The Alisa Childers Podcast
The Alisa Childers Podcast
#369 Sending Your Christian Kid to College? 5 Challenges to Prepare For | Dr. Jonathan Morrow
01:09:55
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- [00:00]
A
I mean we live in the most hyper personalized really time in human history. Everything is curated, our Spotify playlist, everything. I mean doordash. I mean all of our orders were micro targeted on every ad imaginable. And so if I can. So this generation has been raised to think, well, if all of reality conforms to my preferences, opinions and desires at all times, then why shouldn't truth?
- [00:33]
B
Hey friends. Welcome to the show. Today's episode is for any student who is thinking about going to college and any parent who has a student who's thinking about going to college. Today's episode is brought to you by Brave Books, a Christian children's entertainment company. You can go to bravebooks.com childers for 20% off your first order. So excited to bring you this conversation with my friend Jonathan Morrow, who is the director of cultural engagement and student discipleship for Impact 360 Institute. Now he has a book, actually he's written several books, but he has a book called welcome to College, a Christ Centered Guide to Lasting Faith. And this book has just been recently updated with tons of new information and we talked all about it on today's episode. In fact, we hit on five cultural challenges that every student is facing, especially students that are going off to college. It's no secret that even Christian colleges are drifting into progressivism. We've done a ton of content on this podcast about that very phenomenon. And I think that the natural default position really for any institution or church or even human heart is to drift progressive. And I think this is one of the reasons that the New Testament warns us over and over and over again to hold fast to good doctrine, to guard what we believe, to watch out for false prophets, for false teaching. This is something that we are constantly reminded of in the New Testament because our hearts are fallen and it's natural to just kind of drift into the progressive, gooey, kind of not really solidified beliefs. And so I think today's episode is going to be incredibly, it's very specific, it's very equipping. So if you're a student who's thinking of going to college or you're a parent who has a student thinking of going to college, I hope that you will get a lot out of this. I also want to encourage you to consider Impact360. They have a gap year program that I get to go teach at every single year where I spend three days with the students. And you can check all of that out at impact 3 360. Org and here is my conversation with Dr. Jonathan Morrow. Well, Jonathan, great to have you in studio. We have worked together for a really long time down at Impact360, and you've worked with students for decades, couple of decades now. And by the way, you're really gifted at that. I've watched you interact with students and so I'm excited to talk about the update to your book welcome to College, which is a book I've recommended to Christian parents when they have kids going to college. And I think especially now, in the past five to 10 years, things have ramped up, up. Does it feel that way? Like it. The challenges have become more, I don't know, extreme or pinpointed or something like that. So, yes, I think this is going to really help parents today. But before we get going, talk about kind of a little bit about yourself, what you do, and maybe why you wanted to update this book now.
- [03:26]
A
Yeah, for sure. Well, always great to be with you, Elisa. It's been so fun to see God use you and the amazing ministry you have. We love having you teach and speak with our students, but just seeing you out there equip so many people so love the ministry you're doing. So this is, this is just fun. You know, we get. We both care about the next generation. And really, at the end of the day, why I do what I do is, is I want our, our own kids walking with Jesus, not just when they're eight, but when they're 80. That's a big thrust behind welcome to College. And I want that for a new generation of followers of Jesus. But I get to serve as director of Cultural Engagement student discipleship at Impact360. I love speaking and teaching to students in writing and helping them think about and own their faith. I've been married for 25 years, and we have three kids, and we've been kind of in the middle of watching them grow, but also just really have a heart for the next generation. All the challenges. And so I love getting to talk about culture and ideas and how it fits with students and how all this comes together. But really, welcome to College in the brand new, updated, completely updated edition of welcome to College is why I wanted to write that is because the world, as you put it, has changed very rapidly. And if you want students to walk with Jesus for a lifetime, you have to know what's shaping them. And you've got to give them a guide in a way and a framework to give them confidence to do that well. And at the heart of it, that's why I wrote welcome to College and that's why I updated it and went through and added a bunch of stuff to it and to really make it as effective as possible for this generation to give parents away and a lens into what's going on with the next generation.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Because, look, I deeply believe this, and this is so important. What we believe is actually true. And because it's true, it changes everything. And imagine if a generation of students got that. And that's what I love.
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B
Yeah. And one of the things I think that makes what you do unique is that you have kids. And this is what I've observed when I've been at impact360 to teach is you have students coming from all sorts of different denominational backgrounds and environments that they grew up in. And that makes it kind of fun because you have to really pinpoint on what is secondary, what is essential, what unites us. And so it helps refine even my thinking. And I don't know if you know this, but I am pretty sure that you were the first person to really ask me to speak on apologetics. I think it was like, back in 2017 was when I started coming to Impact, so thank you for that. So you're welcome.
- [05:49]
A
Well, we were actually at that conference about. About Gen Z and the new research, and I was like, I want you to come speak at Propel to our high school students and share your story and share your passion. And it was when I saw you with those students, they connected with you right away.
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B
I love students. I love speaking.
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A
I love. I love. I mean, I love parents, I love everybody. But, like, it's just so fun to work with students and just watching you in that environment and the way God's gifted you, the story that he's given you and the way that you've really helped so many people through that. So, yeah, that, that I actually, I think I may have been the first to invite you, but I was like, you know what? God is going to use Elisa, and we would love to. I'd love to see you.
- [06:30]
B
Well, it's been fun. It's been really fun. And I've even noticed over the course of the several years that I've been going to impact the kinds of questions the students are asking changed. But here's another thing that I've noticed, and I think it's because the world has gotten darker and maybe a little more chaotic culturally, is that the Christian kids have become more engaged. I used to ask questions like, why are you a Christian? Or questions like that, and you'd get all sorts of answers. But it seems like students now, they're thinking through these questions a little more and they're giving really good answers. And so that's encouraging to me to see that among the younger generation. But what are some examples of some things that you added or that you felt was necessary to put into addition to what you had written before?
- [07:12]
A
Absolutely. Well, there's a lot that's updated in different new chapters on all the gender, obviously, transgender identity, sexuality, all of those kind of things. A lot on how kind of critical theory and social justice and all that shaping this background mood. A lot of that's in the background. I talk a lot about that. Screens and kind of their digital discipleship, how even relationships work in this day and age, Biblical manhood and womanhood, things like that. Updating and talking more about those things, helping them get a sense for how to integrate a vision for a public faith, not just a private faith. Because I think the tendency is, you know, it's fine for you Christians to believe what you believe today, as long as you keep it in your head and maybe in your church on a Sunday. But. But don't let that get out anywhere.
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B
Right?
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A
And so it's really, how do we do integrated thinking, living and ownership of faith? And so a lot of stuff on screens, AI, social media, all the things. There's a lot in there on all those things, as well as new challenges around to can you trust the Bible or why you can. Why it's rational to believe that God exists or how does. How do we know Jesus the only way to God and all the things that come with it. So it, it really is. There's. There's 42 short chapters with summaries at the end of them on every topic imaginable. Because really, that's my heart was. Is like, yes, I'd love for a student to read all the way through it. But it's also written in a way that if I, if you come home from class one day and you're like, okay, what. How do I deal with doubt? Or what do I do if my friend's deconstructing, which A lot you've. You're expert on this. Like, what. What do I do with. How do I need to get my habits under control to even study well? Or how do I have conflict well, with a roommate or another person? Like, what does relational collect connection look like in an age of isolation when people are so just lonely and anxious and worried? How do you build emotional resilience? All that stuff are topics that I get into and talk about and welcome to college.
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B
And is this for mostly students or their parents or both?
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A
Yeah. So it's primarily written for students, and I'd say high school students, obviously, a lot of people with college, graduate, high school graduation, things like that. But honestly, this is a secret weapon for parents because if you can literally read this alongside your student during the high school years and you'll know what the conversations are that you need to be having, and it will allow you to kind of investigate some things, maybe even for the first time, but also know, hey, parents are busy. Right. We know this. We're all. But if I were going to focus some time on these issues, this helps you do that in a way. So it's kind of written in a secret way for students. Yes. Directed toward them. But. But a lot of parents would benefit from this because you're like, okay, this is the world of my student, and this is the way that I can think about why I believe what I believe, what are the core things about Christianity, how am I formed and what does it mean for me to be a disciple of Jesus? My own habits, my own practices, my own screens, my own. All those things. And so it's a great way to have a lot of great conversations, which is one of the things we'll talk about, which is so vital if you want to parent.
- [10:10]
B
Well, today it's so important because parents will even ask me, I'll be speaking at an event, and they'll say, well, my college student is becoming progressive. Which one of your books should I have them read? And my answer is always like, well, actually, you need to read it and then talk to them. And not that you shouldn't give them a book because maybe they will read. And especially in high school, you can read it together. But it's so important to your point that the parents are aware of the kinds of conversations that they need to be having. Because by the time you're asking, what book can I give my kid to stop them from, you know, leaving the faith, it's probably a little too late for that sort of thing. And so if you can learn the information and talk to them, that is so vital. So we're going to really do that today.
- [10:51]
A
Yeah. Which is awesome. And I love that point. I just want to say something to parents because I know a lot of people watch and benefit from your ministry. If you've got toddlers or if you are don't even have kids yet or anything, this is the perfect time to think about these things because you can build a way of kind of hey, what's my roadmap for how I'm on a shape my child's faith in the way they see the world that's rooted in truth and reality. What a gift that is to them. So don't worry. It's not too late. If you've never done anything, you've got college kids or high school kids, like, all of this is just in time for those things. But, man, if you are at the beginning of this parenting journey or have littles at home, this is the perfect time to go. Okay. How do we build a family around these kinds of things and aiming at these kinds of things? And I think that's going to make all the difference.
- [11:39]
B
Well, you're on the cutting edge of exactly what's out there and culture that our students are dealing with, because you're dealing with the students that are facing all of these things. What would you say? You. If you could just give us a handful of what you think are the most important cultural challenges to be aware of right now that our students are facing, what would you say they are?
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A
Yeah, so I would say there's a. There's a broad answer to that, because I think there's kind of under the. It's kind of like this. If you ever been whitewater rafting, there's.
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B
There's kind of the one time.
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A
Okay.
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B
But it was really more. Mike, wouldn't you say it was more like water floating? They marketed as, but it was a
- [12:16]
A
bit mild, so at least it kind of moved you around the river a little bit. Well, what generates the rapids is the contours of the bottom of the river. And so with the speed, because in what we don't often see. So I'm going to answer your. Answer your question two different ways. I'm going to give you a couple of the bigger things that are underneath the surface. So these wouldn't be the names you would probably call them, but they are the effects of what we're seeing.
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B
Okay.
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A
And then there's also. There could be things like, hey, students got to navigate AI, They've got to navigate screens, they got to navigate questions of gendered sexuality, all those kind of things, like hot button topics. But what I really want to do is help people understand what's going on under the surface, because those are the things that are doing deep formational work on this generation. And if we want them to really be transformed in the way they think and live, then we've got to understand those things.
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B
Well, okay.
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A
And so. So the first thing we have to understand and this isn't a word that you'll find a lot of places as a parent, but it's important for you to understand it. Scientism is what's shaping. That's the first thing. And why this matters in a simple definition of scientism is that only the hard sciences give us knowledge about reality. And therefore, if it's not the hard sciences, then you can't know it. But here's the problem when it comes to Christianity, because Christianity claims to be a knowledge tradition. It claims you can know things. You see, about 2,000 times in your Bible, you. You'll have words that are knowledge, knowing words, and about 4 to 500 words dealing with belief and faith. Now, faith is vital. Without. Without faith, it's impossible to please God, right? Hebrews 11:6. But knowledge is essential to living well. And the Bible deals with moral, spiritual, and historical knowledge. Well, guess what? If you only have a background belief in culture that says the only things you can know are the hard sciences, then guess what? You can't know Christianity in the Bible. So knowledge is removed right away. And that's the first thing you have to understand that's happening at a base level is knowledge removes. And why knowledge is so vital for students and all of us is that's what gives you confidence to navigate reality. Well, is knowledge not just opinion, not just mere belief, but actually knowing something. And the Bible says that you can know these things. And so that's why the first thing that we have to understand is scientism operating in the background has removed the confidence in even the way that we talk about Christianity, right? And so that's vital for us to understand.
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B
Okay, let me pop in on that, because it's got my head spinning in a bunch of different directions, because on one hand I see that you see people appealing to science and logic and facts, but on the other hand, they're saying, well, that's just true for you, and what's true for me is true for me, and so don't impose your religion on me. And so you almost see these things at odds, but they work together because it's like our culture. And I think it was Frances Schaeffer and Nancy Pearcy who pointed this out, that our culture does believe in objective truth when it comes to certain things, right? When it's, when it's scientific investigation or logic or something like that, they're perfectly happy for that to be public knowledge. And you kind of alluded to this earlier, but your religion and what you might believe about morality, what you should or shouldn't do that's more relegated to like your private life. That's something you keep to yourself. You don't want to impose that on other people. And that really is largely result of modernism and even flowing into postmodernism, which would say there's no grand meta narrative that can be known about reality, but yet scientism claims to be that. So how do you think those things work together like this scientism that's in the background, but working within a postmodern culture. Springtime is here, which means in our home it is grilling season. We love to get out on our grill and grill up our better than organic chicken, our grass fed beef that comes to our door on dry ice from good ranchers every single month. In fact, this meat is born, raised and harvested right here in the United States. And if you have never tried good ranchers, you need to try them because they have just launched. Oh, I can't. I'm so excited about this. Custom boxes. It used to be you'd have to pick a curated box, but now they've just launched custom boxes, which means you can now build your own box with exactly what your family wants. And if you have never tried good ranchers, now is the time because they have just launched custom boxes. I am so excited about this because it used to be you'd have to go on the website and pick one of the curated boxes, but now you can build your own box with exactly what your family wants. So go to goodranchers.com today and when you subscribe you're going to get free meat for life and $25 off your first order with my code ELISA. So go to goodranchers.com today. Check out those custom boxes. Use my code Alisa for free meat for life and 25 off your first order. Again, that's goodranchers.com use my code ALIS. Lisa.
- [17:06]
A
Yeah, love that. Great insight. And yeah, Francis Schaer really saw a lot of this coming and Nancy Pearce has done awesome work on that as well. And so if you lose knowledge, the next piece and the next cultural challenge is where you went next, which is you get relativism, which is you lose truth. So the first thing you lose is knowledge. And now it's just true for you, but not for me. Follow your heart. You do you right, speak your truth, all of that stuff and then that's what shows up with next. Now we can't live that way, but people want to think you can. So that's why they think, well, this is My own spiritual background. It's. And I mean, we live in the most hyper personalized, really time in human history. Everything is curated, our Spotify playlist, everything. I mean, doordash. I mean all of our orders were micro targeted on every ad imaginable. And so if I can. So this generation has been raised to think, well, if all of reality conforms to my preferences, opinions and desires at all times, then why shouldn't truth about reality, biology, sexuality, gender, religion, spirituality, even history for that matter. So these are kind of like dominoes that fall. And so they're connected because if you lose knowledge about reality, then you just have preferences around morality and spirituality and history, but then you have knowledge about chemistry, physics and biology until the third part in my cultural kind of observation kicks in.
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B
Okay, so we've got scientism, you lose knowledge. Postmodernism, you lose truth. What's next?
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A
So next you end up with tribalism.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And so if you start with scientism, you lose knowledge and then relativism, you lose truth. All you're left with is what Power. And that's why that's where we live right now, which is power dynamics and this. And sometimes people like, okay, how does this work? Well, people don't argue or people don't try to persuade anymore. They just try to impose their view.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So it's, so it's important to know why you believe in what you believe. But we live in a culture and the next generation, Gen Z, and then soon on the heels of it, Gen Alpha is growing up in a world in which people don't try to persuade one another. They build alliances and try to impose. So let me give you a couple examples of this real quick. To make this concrete. People always wonder, well, where did the acronym LGBTQ come from? Well, obviously, if you think about it for a second, the L and the T are fundamentally at odds. A lesbian thinks biological reality is a thing, that you could be attracted to a T. Trans individual doesn't believe biological reality is a thing. However, they are in an alliance against really a Judeo Christian worldview. They would call it the patriarchy. They would call it kind of a way of structuring the family. Male, female, marriage. One man, one woman, one flesh, one lifetime. They're like, we, before we can do anything about our own peace, we've got to take that structure down. And so you end up with a tribalism mentality and then they have an alliance to take down the power structure. And so that's where we're at right now. Now Obviously, the L and the T are at war. You can kind of see this in some ways by watching one of the most famous authors of our day, J.K. rowling, for example.
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B
Yeah.
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A
She would affirm adults should be able to live out sexually however they want to from a gay and lesbian perspective. But she is not on the trans ideology train. She is against trans, kind of, because she sees that as harmful and everything else. So you see this. Those two ideas are actually in conflict, but they're an alliance to take down the ruling structure so that it can be replaced by whatever you want to do next. So that's one example. Another example would be we live in what's called a contested public square today. We were actually just talking about this a little bit when we were down in Pine Mountain recently. But there's three things that are going on in our culture, if you think about it as a pie chart, and it's. This is kind of a new era, I would say, in. In modern American culture anyway. And you've got these three things that are going. You've got Islamism in one bucket, you've got progressive socialism in another bucket, and then you have a Judeo Christian worldview in the third bucket, or what some people call, you know, a Christian nationalism or something that's a whole separate. We can talk about that another time. But essentially, one of those three worldviews is going to inform a public square. Why? Because there is no such thing as a neutral public square anymore. It's not as though those three are just kind of gonna not do anything in the middle. It's like, well, we don't need to bring religion and everything into it. No, everybody's got a worldview, and it's on full display right now. So progressive socialism is doing one thing. Islam is a worldview. It's doing another Judeo Christianity and Judeo Christian worldview with Christianity especially. That's the only one that allows for free speech, freedom of religion, freedom of conscience. Islam at its core, doesn't.
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B
Right.
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A
Progressive socialism doesn't. So that's why you see alliances happening right now.
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B
Right. Like Queers for Palestine.
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A
Yes.
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B
Is the perfect example of it.
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A
And that's why in welcome to College, I go into, like, critical theories, like, why do you see these different slogans and sound bites showing up together? Well, there's deep ideas about reality and worldview questions that are front and center, in a way, in modern America that hasn't been true even 20 years ago or 15 years ago that have really just picked up speed. So a student Today is not navigating a neutral public square. They're navigating a contested public square. And one of those three worldviews ideas will quote, unquote, win. Now, obviously, as a Christian, our citizenship is in heaven. But providentially, in Acts 17, God has placed us in the United States at this time. He determines the boundaries and the times and the places in which we live, and our job is to be faithful in it. And so they're going to be in growing up. And I talk about kind of, how do you navigate that? Well, but the basic idea that we have to understand what's going on in the background is tribalism, and it's about power alliances. And then how do you impose? And then you get with your oppressed and oppressor idea and some of those kind of ideas as well. But that is what the dominant way. So it's no longer knowledge and truth per se. It's really that tribalism piece that our kids are kind of growing up with, and they just have to figure out how to navigate.
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B
And it is. It's a very strange dynamic because if you think about that whole oppressed versus oppressor narrative, you have a lot of Christians I don't think understand this. And actually, Melissa Doherty pointed this out in her book Happy Lies. It was a book she wrote about new thought, but ultimately she saw the overlap between progressivism and new thought. And so part of her research was visiting progressive churches and talking with the pastors, and she was talking to this one progressive pastor about tolerance. She wrote about this in her book. And she asked him, do you believe in tolerance? Oh, yes, yes, yes. And she said, well, what about conservative Christians? And she said, he was like a visceral reaction. He actually stepped back and was like, oh, no, no, no, no. And he literally said, they're the bad guy.
- [24:08]
A
Wow.
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B
And so what a lot of people I don't think understand is in the whole oppressed versus oppressor narrative, it's not even just like white people that are viewed to be the biggest oppressor. It's Christianity. Christianity is seen which. Which is so strange because if you look into reality, Christians are persecuted globally more than any other group, I think was the last statistics that I saw. Yet Christianity is seen as this oppressive force in the world. Well, then you can see why Islam and progressive socialism would come together for a time at least to try to defeat the big oppressor, which is in their vision, Christianity. That's why this conversation is so important. I think a lot of people don't realize how united that all is, which is why you're putting it in, you know, those three buckets is so helpful to think of it that way because you really do have kind of this good versus evil thing going on to take down all of the principles that would provide the way for people to have freedom of religion, free speech, have personal agency in certain things. So I think this is an important key point because somebody asked me recently, like, what do you think is the biggest challenge right now? And I truly think it's tribalism. Like, that's where we are. We're there to where no enemies, to the right, that sort of thing. I mean, in my opinion, that's a ridiculous thing to do because if you can't criticize people to your right, well, then you can't hold anyone biblically accountable for anything. That's just not how Christians operate.
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A
Yeah, we're called to have a prophetic voice in this, and we've got to be able to. Sometimes a sledgehammer is necessary, sometimes a scalpel is necessary. Two different tools for two different jobs. Right. And be able to speak to specific things while saying broadly agreement here. Let's do that differently over here. Like, let's be, you know, and that's where I think you get into the deeply Christian ideas of seeking the welfare for the city. Jeremiah 29, where it talks about, you know, and that was they were in exile. They were supposed to seek the good of the city. When we see Paul even leveraging his Roman citizenship for the proclamation of the gospel until he couldn't leverage it anymore. So he wasn't committed to ultimately his political vision. But he's like, look, if I can leverage my Roman citizenship, I'm going to do it. But in the same way, as followers of Jesus who live in America at this time and place, if we can leverage certain things that we can do in our country right now, great. We're not trusting in it. Ultimately. God's ultimately sovereign and he's good and he's the one in charge. And our citizenship is ultimately in heaven. But if we can love our neighbor well here by preserving truth and sanity and reality and even like biological categories and health and being able to talk about moral vision and good things, then we ought to do that. Those aren't mutually exclusive with making the gospel clear and making disciples. Well, like that. That's why I'm trying to help in welcome to college. Kind of give a bigger vision for the Christian life that integrates these things and orders them in the right way.
- [27:07]
B
Christian parents, have you checked out Brave Books yet. Brave Books is a Christian children's entertainment company that help parents raise kids with character, conviction and imagination. They've partnered with voices like her, Cameron, Frank Turek, Melissa Dougherty to stories and shows that aren't just safe, but they actually strengthen your kids faith and values. And I love their new streaming platform called Brave plus where you can give your kids carefully curated shows and stories that don't contribute to that overstimulation and that short attention span. They encourage positive behavior and reinforce biblical truth while being so well made, so high quality, fun and engaging. So go to bravebooks.comchilders today and get 20% off your first purchase with the code childers. Again that's bravebooks.com childers use the code Childers. Love that. Okay, so we got tribalism, which you know, ultimately has to do with power. So what's next?
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A
Yeah, so then you've got. One of the implications for that is what I call the new sexual revolution. Now in the, in the 1960s and whenever I teach students and they're like, back in the 1900s, I'm like, no, not the 1900s and 1960s. You know, you know, it's very different. But back then the big idea was people need to behave, need to be able and allowed to behave sexually however they want to. Behavior. We're now in a situation where identity, you need to be able to identify however you want to sexually. And that moves from a behavior to an identity marker. And that's a big shift because then anytime you talk about someone's core identity, that makes it more challenging to talk about. How does deep and lasting change happen? How does redemption and freedom happen? Where does flourishing occur? And so that shift from behavior to identity underneath the surface is why people can't separate. Well, this is just what I do or why can't I just do that? How does that affect you? Well, it's an identity marker.
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B
Right.
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A
That then gets publicly affirmed and then imposed back to our tribalism idea. So it's another piece of where it follows in that. And one of the keys in that is kind of an undercurrent is driving that. You know, Carl Truman talks about expressive individualism and this idea where our authentic self ought to be able to be on display. And there's this idea that if anyone challenges my authentic self, that's oppressive.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And even in Christian circles. So there's kind of a secular version of that that happens outside the church. But then there's kind of a no hit me zone inside the church because that's My authentic self, too.
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B
Yeah.
- [29:51]
A
And so if we're not allowing a biblical worldview to ground those things and inform those things, God's good design and commands for sexuality and gender and everything else and expression for so many things, that's where you see that next domino fall. Because once you move from behavior to identity, then people start seeing themselves as, no, this is who I am. And it's really hard to move forward there. You can. God changes hearts all the time. People can find freedom. The gospel's good news for everyone. Like, we're all broken. We just express our brokenness in different ways. And sin is more than just brokenness. It's also rebellion. I think both of those things have to go together. But, bro. But sin breaks things. And so. So all of that happens. And in the conversation around sexuality, which, again, Christians aren't the ones who made. Weren't driving the conversation, hey, let's talk about sexuality all the time. Like, that wasn't. But the Bible does address it. And God has good design, and he's a loving creator and a heavenly father who loves us and created a context for those things and identity and who we are. And not to be defined by your sin patterns or struggles like those. Anyway, we can talk about those things, but that's operating in the background. So students are growing up in a world in which this new sexual revolution says you ought to be able to be free to identify sexually any way you want to. And anything that pushes back about that is not only oppressive, but unloving.
- [31:11]
B
You know, I got to tell you, with all of my dealings with students, I think this is the one that they. They are the most confused about. Not just students, but sadly, even some adult Christians are confused about this, where they have bought into the cultural lie that who you are sexually or what you feel sexually is your core identity, or, as you put it, your true, authentic self. And so it's. You know, when I was at a Q and A once with not at Impact, it was somewhere else, but a student got up and said, why do you deny the humanity of gay people? And I thought that was such an interesting question. Thankfully, Greg Kokol was with me, so he took the question. But, you know, the point being, though, nobody's denying anyone's humanity, but because this generation in particular has been indoctrinated to believe that your sexual feelings are your core identity. When the Christian comes along and says something like, the Bible is against homosexuality, what they hear is, oh, the Bible is against me. And so I think it's. It's so hard sometimes for Christians to understand that and to help people untie the knots. And I love the way Christopher Yuan puts it. He says, this isn't who you are, it's what you feel, but it's not who you are. And so for Christians, I always, in my book Live youe Truth and Other Lies. One of the points that I really tried to make is that if you're a Christian, your identity is that you're a child of God. And the stability that brings is that it doesn't change even when your feelings do. When. Whether they be sexual feelings or whatever, if you're trusted in Christ and you're adopted in God's family, saved and reconciled to a holy God, then your identity is that you're his child. You're not identified by what your fleeting feelings are, and that's a stable place to be, because then your identity doesn't change, even though your circumstances do. And I think that's something that a lot of young people in particular are confused about.
- [32:57]
A
Yeah. I think that's such a powerful observation. And I think we have to help them see that freedom is not the ability to do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it, as long as you don't hurt someone. Right. And even that last little throwaway tag online, well, it assumes what you can't hurt who, yourself.
- [33:13]
B
Yeah.
- [33:14]
A
That's the fundamental problem with relativism. And this whole idea of expressive individualism is, well, I'm just going to live my truth and be my authentic myself. And that. That'll. I'll create my own meaning, my own purpose. Well, that's going to be exhausting, number one. And then you're going to keep slamming into reality. That's painful. And then that's what a burden to bear as a. As a. As a child growing up today to think I've got to be the sole person who defines myself in every layer of existence.
- [33:39]
B
Yeah.
- [33:40]
A
That gets exhausting. So that we've got to redefine that category as well.
- [33:44]
B
Yeah. And that we're doing that to kindergarteners. We're telling them they got to pick an identity in all of this. It's. It's madness.
- [33:50]
A
Yep. So one more thing that's a domino in this cultural kind of next progression. Then if we lose knowledge from scientism, we lose truth from relativism. We just left with power, which is tribalism. We get the new sexual revolution, which reduces behavior and identity. Now, identity is the thing, the last piece in that. And then I'll talk about the context Maybe is we end up with, with progressive Christianity. Now this is something that obviously you know a lot about, you've written the book on it. But one thing I would highlight here is, you know, secularism. And Sean McDowell and I wrote, co wrote a book called Is God Just Human Invention? Where we engaged with the new atheists when it came out and all of that thing. But atheism isn't really a movement because there's nothing that animates the core of it. There's nothing that really, it's, it's kind of like, well, there is no God and no meaning and all these, it's like, okay, great, right? Where do we go with that? What's different about progressive Christianity? And there's kind of a, is you replace the core of it with the core claim of Jesus and Christianity says I'm the way, the truth and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6. Well, if you remove that core from Christianity, you have to have an animating force. Well, if you lose knowledge, you lose truth. Your tribalism, your affirming of LGBTQ and you're, you're on board with this new sexual freedom identity piece, then you animate progressive Christianity as a movement, the core of it, with secular social justice. That's what moves. That's the engine that drives the good news of progressive Christianity. It's no longer that Jesus saves you and forgives you and all those things, and you talk so much about this in your books, which is so helpful, but that core. And once you remove that, then our students are growing up in a world where they're getting a counterfeit vision of what Christianity is. But it has to have an animal. You have to have a cause and it gives people a cause. But it's not the gospel. It's not the true gospel of Jesus and it doesn't offer hope and forgiveness and redemption. In fact, quite the opposite. You can never get it in those things, in a progressive vision of that. And that is kind of the last, I guess stop on that train before you go to just full blown secularism or not. Belief in God or agnosticism is like why I still want to keep some of the Christian loving language and Jesus moral example language. But, but let's just aim it at something that's not distinctly Christian. And I think that's the next thing that falls logically as you look under the surface, that's what's shaping a lot of what is perceived even in Christianity today.
- [36:20]
B
Yeah, and I would even add to that, that after progressive Christianity, which I think is an off ramp for a lot of people, there are certainly people who remain progressive Christians for a long time. But for a lot of people it's just a way out into other things, whether it be New age or Buddhism, whatever it might be, or secular humanism. Agnosticism is very common as an identifier along the road of these things you're talking about. So this feels a little overwhelming, right? There's a lot of parents, I'm sure that are listening to us that are going, that's a lot. I mean, they see it. I know that they've just heard you describe all of that and they can see it on social media. They've seen it in their kids friends groups and in conversations. But they might feel really overwhelmed, like I don't even know where to begin with this. So what would your advice be to parents? How can they train their kids before they're out in just unsheltered with all of these worldviews? How can they help train their kids to think biblically through these things now before they're going off to college? All right, Mother's Day, it's right around the corner and your mom wants something from Range Leather. This is American made craftsmanship from Wyoming. And you know, we're in a world of mass produced disposables. Range Leather really, really stands apart because every product that they craft in their Laramie, Wyoming workshop is built to last a lifetime. In fact, they have a lifetime guarantee. So for mom this Mother's Day, you can get her a horween leather apple watch band. You can get her an adorable little truck trucker hat with a leather patch on it. Or you can spring for the beautiful bags and purses, clutches, wallets. They have everything from tote bags to keychains. Check them out@rangeleather.com and use the code ELISA for 15. Off again, go to rangeleather.com and use my code Alisa.
- [38:17]
A
Absolutely. Well, there is hope, right? And so I want. And we can. That's why, that's why we get to do what we do. And that's why I wrote welcome to College. One last thing to understand because you, you, you also mentioned earlier what students are facing. Well, they face digital saturation.
- [38:29]
B
Oh yeah.
- [38:30]
A
Because everything is mediated by a screen. Today, life is mediated by screen social media. Distraction, loneliness, anxiety, depression, all that stuff is baked.
- [38:39]
B
I mean that's like the biggest one.
- [38:40]
A
Maybe that's operating all in the background of all of those views because. And now it's, it's really what I call kind of like. Like death by a thousand nudges of a worldview being shifted every little scroll or swipe. It's, it's. They're not being. They're not being argued into a new view. They're literally being manipulated emotionally into a different worldview. And that's why they're not. So that. So again, I'm going to come to what we can do about it and the hope because that feels overwhelming too. But you need to recognize as moms and dads, ads like that is a primary shaper and vehicle for all those five things that we just talked about. The way that gets into your kid's life is through a screen.
- [39:20]
B
Yeah.
- [39:21]
A
Through social media, through their access, through influencers and everything else. And so that's an important piece of the conversation. So how do we not feel overwhelmed by this? Well, two quick disclaimers. And then I want to give some hope. We can talk about some ways that. Things that we can do practically as parents and what to aim at. The first thing. Thing is there's no such thing as a perfect parent. You're gonna have to give yourself some grace. Like I don't do this perfectly.
- [39:42]
B
Yeah.
- [39:43]
A
Are you doing this perfectly? So that being said, I want to take some of the pressure off to feel like that we are solely responsible for whether or not our kids are going to walk with Jesus for a lifetime. Okay. Because two quick things. One, kids are going to make their own choices. If you're a mom or dad for any, any stretch of time, you know that. Boy, I wish I could make those. Those choices for our kids. But they're going to have to make the choices that are going to make.
- [40:05]
B
Yeah.
- [40:06]
A
And we can't control that. The second thing is God's going to do what he's going to do in his providence. And so we don't control that either. So by God's grace and empowered by the Holy Spirit, what are those things we can shape? And I have five things that I would love to kind of walk through a little bit that we can get into that are also reinforced in welcome to college that you can go deeper on. But. But the first thing that I would start with, aim at these things. If you're a mom or a dad in your home. Home. If you're starting with littles at home or if you've already got high school and college students in your room. Either one, you want to create a safe place to ask questions and express doubts.
- [40:43]
B
Yes.
- [40:44]
A
Safe place to ask questions and express doubts. This Is so vital. So vital. And the reason why I start here is because. And there's. Maybe an illustration will help. I call it. I call it the. The freakout rule. The freakout rule is whenever your son or daughter comes to you and they say, mom, dad, I'm not sure if I believe. And then they fill in the blank. I don't believe I got in God anymore. You know what? I've got a gay friend. I'm not sure that. Is that really wrong? Like, would Jesus really love that? Like, so you got two. You have a split second moment. You can either freak out on the outside or on the inside. And I want to encourage you to freak out on the inside. And on the outside, I want you to say something like this. That's a really good question. Thank you for bringing that to me. Now here's the power of what you've just done. That child just did something massively courageous. They went to their mom or dad or both of you and expressed something that's a doubt or a question they have. And if we freak out, shut it down. Say, what are you learning in school? We're going to YouTube 75 times this week. Aren't you reading your Bible? Like, I mean, no. You go to your room. No. Like, then guess the next time they have a tough question, guess who is the last person on the planet, they're going to come to us if we shame them, freak them out. Like, it's like, all right, let's talk about it. Let's get a question. Let's explore that together. So what we want to do as best as we can, and we don't all do it perfectly. And there's grace. But generally speaking, create a place where they can ask you questions and express doubts and insecurities. Because is, if they can't do it here, they're gonna find somewhere else to do it.
- [42:24]
B
Yeah.
- [42:25]
A
And they're gonna find someone else who will influence those answers if we don't. So that's the first big thing. And then. And I talk about this in welcome to college. Like, there's different kind of doubts. It's kind of like this. It's like a check engine light in your car. You're driving down the road now. I actually think my check engine light just came on recently and I was like, oh. I actually think they need to change the icon to just dollar signs.
- [42:46]
B
Yeah.
- [42:47]
A
Is this a $1 sign thing?
- [42:48]
B
Yeah.
- [42:48]
A
$2 sign, 5 do change in the oil. Change entire transmission. Very different things.
- [42:54]
B
Yeah. Right.
- [42:54]
A
You also fix them differently. Right. And so we have different kind of doubts. And so I go into different kind of doubts. So you need to understand sometimes not all doubts are created equal. And so you kind of have to learn. What kind of doubt is my child or my son or daughter wrestling with here?
- [43:08]
B
Yeah.
- [43:09]
A
And so, so those two things are massive at first because you want to create an environment where they can ask questions. That's a good question. Here's what you say. Sometimes parents are like, well, what do I do if they ask me stuff? I don't know. It's like, well, you fake it. No, no.
- [43:22]
B
You don't think, don't fake it. Never fake it.
- [43:25]
A
Not in an era.
- [43:26]
B
Yeah.
- [43:26]
A
Everything in you is going to want to make something up. Look, they can fact check you right away. Chat, chat, gbt, whatever. You know, we say Google it now, you can just literally throw it in chat or grok or anything else you want to, you know, find. But what you know is. I don't know. That's a good question. Let's explore that together. The amount of, of time that buys you is so good and it invites them into it.
- [43:48]
B
Well, I think too, also, just to even give the. I don't know is so important, I think also because I've thought about this from the perspective of our kids getting to observe us, not having to know everything but still having faith, I think is massive, you know, to be able to say, well. And also it makes your kid feel confident to be like, wow, I never thought of that question. You're really smart. Like, you're thinking about things much deeper than I did at your age. Aren't you the smarty pants? Right, Right. So that builds their confidence too. But I think too, there's just something so stabilizing. I know this was true with my parents when I would ask my dad a question, for example, and if he didn't know the answer, but just the fact that he wasn't rattled by it was so huge and maybe even more valuable than if he had known the pat answer off the top of his head. And just to your point, yeah, don't make stuff up. I did. Like, even in Q and A, sometimes I'm tempted to do that when I'm the person on the platform and they're asking some random question about revelation or something. And you know, it's tempting to just kind of, of give some kind of an answer, but you know, that is a recipe for deconstruction to do that. Because then when the kid knows that you were just bluffing, well, then they think, well, what Else were they making stuff off about? What else do they not know that they, they, they say they know about? Whereas just being really honest and modeling that humility, I think is so important.
- [45:04]
A
Yeah. So that's vital. So that's the first thing you want to do, is create that kind of environment. And if one of the ways you're able to do that is the second part point, students and kids need reasons for faith. That's the second thing. Because what we can do is we can create an environment where they can ask questions, they can express doubts. As a mom or dad, you can have the confidence and the increasing confidence the longer you kind of spend some time here is you want to have reasons for faith yourself so that you're not rattled by this and then you can actually invite them into it. And I'm going to talk about maybe a little bit of a tool on how to do that in a second. But think about this.
- [45:41]
B
This.
- [45:41]
A
Everybody watching this right now has a hobby or something you care about, like gardening, playing guitar. Right? But let's say it's playing guitar. You, you ask. And if, let's say you've been playing guitar for 20 years and, and if I asked you, well, tell me about the best guitar. What's the best guitar? Well, it's a tailor or it's a guild or it's a Gibson or whatever, because you know, you know guitars, and you don't get defensive about that because you know stuff about it. What we need to do is know our Christian faith well so that we don't get defensive about it. Now, I may not know every last little particular thing, but there's a way to build your faith on the right things from the inside out, the core things out, so that you have confidence in how to navigate it. And what I like to do is really help center around this. And I've been, I developed this, I've been teaching this with students for years and years and years. It's basically kind of my Christianity and forwards framework work. And so it's just kind of four quadrants. And as a, as a parent, mom or dad, this is a way you can get reasons for faith and think about it. Four words, and here's. It's truth, God, Jesus, Bible, in that order. And the order matters. Okay, and here's. I'm gonna walk through it, then I'll kind of give something in each quadrant. The first one is, does truth exist? And can you know it? Because in that quadrant you're like, okay, well, if truth doesn't exist and you don't, can't know anything about it. Then literally any conversation we have after this doesn't matter. It's literally opinions and preferences. But relativism is false. We could talk about that. The next question is, well, if truth exists and you can know it, does God exist? Do I have good Bible independent reasons to believe that God exists? Now, do I believe the Bible's the word of God? Absolutely. I teach classes on it. I, I've wrote a book on it. But it's not the starting point because for a lot of people the Bible is not the answer, it's the question. And our kids at some point need to think about, about, okay, yeah, well, if I didn't accept the Bible, because sometimes if you get in a conversation with somebody, well, the Bible says, and they're like, well, I actually don't believe the Bible. What else you got?
- [47:38]
B
Right?
- [47:39]
A
Well, and the Bible actually expects us to have answers that God exists outside of the Bible. Romans 1, 19 and 20, these things have been clearly seen through what's been made. And, and you can have access to that. And so there's good reason to believe that God exists. I can come back to that in a minute. And then the next point in the question that kind of walking them through is they own their faith. Faith is like, okay, well if God does exist, how do I know which God? Well, it turns out. Now you go to your third quadrant. Turns out there was a person named Jesus of Nazareth who lived 2000 years ago who claimed to be God, claimed to be Messiah, claimed to be the Son of man. And you can ev, you can investigate that with eyes wide open. What did he claim? What happened to him? Did he rise from the dead or not? And then, because if he rose from the dead, then that gets you your answer on what the true worldview is this. And then from there you go to the last quadrant, which is, is the Bible the word of God? And well, how do I know that? Well, if Jesus is raised from the dead, then the authority that he gives to it helps there. And then historically we know it's reliable and all the other reasons and evidence you can use to support the Bible. So truth, God, Jesus, Bible, the reason why the order matters in not starting with the Bible says so first, especially for students, is because that's the particular question that they need to have answered. Answered right, is why do I need to trust this book that was written 2, 3, 500 years ago? Maybe it's been changed, maybe it hasn't. I mean, there's all sorts of claims on YouTube. And believe me, let me just say this, like, YouTube is the great teacher of the next generation. They are watching hours and hours of videos on all of these skeptical questions. And so we need to think about that. And so for them, it's like, well, can I trust the Bible? Yes, you'll eventually come to a place where you trust the Bible and trust the God of the Bible Bible, and then that's what disciples do. And then you lean into that in the mission and we'll talk about that. But there's also a point of ownership where they've got to come to a place where like, do I actually think this is true? Does God exist? Like, how do I know, really? I mean, not the Sunday school answer, but like, really? And then, well, who was Jesus? And I mean, I mean, did he actually exist? And how do I know that outside the Bible from history? And then has the Bible been changed? And so anyway, I, I get into reasons and evidence for that and welcome to college on that Truth, God, Jesus, Bible framework. But that's a way of giving them reasons for faith. It's also a way for moms and dads for us to be able to go, which one of those quadrants is there room for me to grow in? Do I need to understand how to talk about truth more effectively? Or maybe I've never really articulated the evidence for God. Like the beginnings require beginners and design requires a design and moral laws require a moral law giver. Like, how do I, could I help my son or daughter do that in a way that doesn't depend on the Bible? Or have I investigated the evidence for Jesus? Or, or how do I know the Bible's true and trustworthy and historically accurate and archeology and all the things. So that's a way of getting reasons for faith first Peter 3:15 talks about that. Always being ready to give an answer for the hope that we have. Jude 3 contend for the faith delivered once for all. So that's kind of the reasons for faith that gives us confidence to create a space where they can ask questions.
- [50:35]
B
So good, okay, so safe place to ask questions and express doubt, giving them reasons for faith with this helpful arc of truth.
- [50:43]
A
God, Jesus, Bible, what else they need wise relationships. Proverbs 13:20 says this. He who walks with the wise becomes wise, but the companion of fools suffers harm. Think about this. The first, the first relationship they need. And I'll, and I'll say this one and then I'll go to the most significant for where they're at life stage wise they need a personal relationship with God. And I don't want to scoot past that too fast. Not just a transactional relationship with God, but a personal relationship with God. God where they know God. You know, Jeremiah 9 talks about this, says, let not the wise man boast in his wisdom or the rich man boast in his riches, but let him who boasts boast in this that he understands and knows me. And what is John 17:3? This is eternal life. That they know you, the only true God in Jesus Christ, whom you've sent. So knowing God is so vital, that personal relationship with God. And then also they need relationships with parents, mentors and peers, those four relationships. But I really want to anchor in, just for the purposes of our conversation around the friends. Because if I were to draw two circles, there's a small circle and then a really big circle for the importance in a life of a student, especially in the teenage years, the small circle would be is Christianity true? Not because it's a smaller, less important question. It's just not as big. The bigger question for a student is, do I belong to. And that's where if the group that accepts me doesn't accept my Christian worldview, but they're the group that gets me and accepts me and tells me who I am and gives me affirmation and says, you belong here, guess what's going to happen to their worldview? It's going to shift gravitational pull to the do I belong? Question. The power of that, though, when we reverse engineer, this is when you can stack the is Christianity true? Question in an environment, in a group of friends who also answer the do I belong? Question. And that's where you get to run with people of faith and you have a deep sense of connection. And those wise relationships matter because it's really the law of influence. At the end of the day, who you spend time with will determine the direction and quality of your life in so many ways. And so he who walks with the wise becomes wise. And so as a mom or a dad, you've got to create space for them to ask questions, reasons for faith. But you've also got it wherever you can influence the primary relationships they have. Sometimes, you know, parents will ask, well, should. Should my parents or should my kids be friends with somebody who doesn't believe the same thing as they do? Yes. But qualified in this way. I wouldn't have people in their inner core, inner circle.
- [53:16]
B
Right? Yeah.
- [53:16]
A
Like their best friend doesn't need to be their atheist person who's struggling with their gender and everything else, because they're, they're going to influence them in that direction. Now we want to engage and have friends with all sorts of people in all walks of life life to share the gospel, have influence all those kind of things. But your core needs to be, I mean this is what 2 Timothy 2:22 gets at. Flee the evil desires of youth and pursue righteousness, faith, hope and love alongside those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
- [53:43]
B
Yeah.
- [53:44]
A
So you got to run with those kind of people.
- [53:46]
B
And what do parents do if they've got a student that doesn't particularly want to have friends that are leading them toward the Lord or influencing them for good? I mean, that can be a difficult challenge even if you've really tried to, to expose your kids to youth group. I mean not every kid that goes to youth group is a good influence.
- [54:03]
A
Right.
- [54:04]
B
So, so how, how can parents navigate that?
- [54:06]
A
So one thing you can do is, you can, it's, it's the food and funding principles. So.
- [54:12]
B
Yes.
- [54:13]
A
So you always want to have as much food as you can to feed the people that they want to hang out at your place. If that's helpful. You can kind of be a magnet there. Or the funding principles, you can create outings and hey, why don't you invite so and so to go with us to this, this or let's, let's, let's do this activity. You can try to dial up some of those relationships the best you can. You can't force them. You can set the table. You can create the environment and you can influence the direction of those things. You can also turn down the influence of somebody. Yeah, we're actually busy. You can't, can't get together today with that. And so, and this is where mom and dad are, you know, and then, and then heroically, single mom, single dads, all that, they've got to navigate a lot that, this by themselves too. But you want to be in lock step as much as you can to go. These are the wise relationships that are influencing our son or daughter. We want to not only be praying for all of that, but we also want to make it easier for him or her to hang out with them and harder for them for them to hang out with that person because that's just not a good influence right now. Yeah, you know, maybe we're not going to do a spend the night. Maybe we're not going to go let them spend the day or whatever. So it, that's, that's, those are key things you can do in that.
- [55:20]
B
Okay. So safe place to ask questions, reasons for faith wise relationships. What's number four for?
- [55:25]
A
They need a grown up worldview. They need a grown up worldview. And here's why this one matters. The way I like to think about this is a backpack. So imagine we were going on a, on a road trip and you're going with your family and your kids out west, you're going to Yellowstone, you're going to be out there for three weeks out in the back country with just a backpack. What are you going to bring? And the reality is it's like, well, there's a lot of things I won't bring. I'm not going to bring a bowling ball ball. I'm not going to bring a flat screen tv, you know, or a weight bench, but I'm going to bring like a water purifier. I'm going to bring maybe a fire starter. Why? Because those actually do real work for me in the real world, in that environment. Most kids, when they walk away from their faith, they either drift away on the inside, they become Christian relativists on the outside. They go, well, that I was just raised a Christian, that's just true for me. Or they were never convinced in the first place. But a lot of kids don't walk away because of some massive new argument. Usually what happens is they have some of them who are at least raised in a Christian home have a sentimental view of their faith that evaporates over time and they discard it as irrelevant and not useful because it doesn't help them. So what happens is they graduate from high school and they graduate from their faith. Because look, the, the screens that I navigate, the feed that I'm seeing is so much more complex than the faith. I was raised with this coloring book Jes Jesus. And I have sweet memories of coloring book Jesus when I was five and going to camp when I was seven. But it doesn't do anything for me in the real world. So a grown up worldview makes sense and answers the questions that need to be answered with an increasing level of sophistication. So for example, most students today in high school, they're doing dual enrollment, they're doing AP this, they're chemistry, they're doing high level stuff, but there's still a lot of them and a lot of times it's not even their fault. They're stuck with Joseph and a coat of many colors and there was a Daniel and a Lin den thing in there somewhere. And again, those are great, but that's not, that's going to evaporate in like two seconds. When you start talking about AI or ethics or belief in God and you know, quantum mechanics, the whole, like, how does that relate to God and all those things and well, God's just a divine father figure. You know, you project that real. I mean, that stuff's gone.
- [57:42]
B
Yeah, so.
- [57:43]
A
So we need to give them a grownup faith that answers the questions that they're actually encountering. And that means we need to raise our game. We need to call them to more, invite them to more, bring more challenge. You don't grow with comfort, you grow with challenge. Appropriate challenge at the right ages and stages. I'm not saying do this like for a five year old, but if they're, if they're heading into their teenage years and middle school years, look, they're, they're navigating a lot of bigger questions already. You want to be the one that's introducing those, talking about questions of origin, identity, meaning, morality, destiny. That needs to be happening in your home for them, and that's key. So we want to have a grown up worldview where we challenge them that explains what needs to be explained.
- [58:27]
B
This is such an important point. I speak to so many students, not just at Impact, but several different ministries. I go in the summers and I just did one last weekend, I'm doing one next weekend and I cannot, I mean every single time. Kids are so underestimated by adults. So many adults think kids can't pay attention for longer than 15 minutes. And you better keep it kind of light and fluffy and keep it fun and throw T shirts at em and all that's fun. I'm not saying don't do that stuff, but I can't tell you how many times I'll get up and you see the kids are totally not engaged. And then you start talking about things that are really relevant to their worldview that they're facing in real time and they perk up, they want to know more. The first time I ever taught apologetics to a group of students, I did some atheist role play where I pretended to be an atheist and it was like the youth group doubled in size. The next week when I came back, they all brought their friends because that's the kind of stuff they need to know about. And I just think you're right. The kids are doing chemistry and algebra 2 and all these things in school and we think they can't pay attention to some theology and apologetics for 20 minutes. Not only can they, but they are hungry for it.
- [59:34]
A
Yes, they want direct talk, talk on questions that matter?
- [59:38]
B
Yes.
- [59:39]
A
And if you want to really ignite their faith and at least get them to a point of ownership, because the last thing you want is a mom or dad or being a youth pastor in a church. Is that for them to quietly go through the motions and never talk about what they believe and why they believe it with anybody. It's just kind of like, I've learned the language. I know what to say. I know how to kind of get along. I can answer the questions in my Christian school. Trust me, that you want them asking a hard question, you want them engaging, big things you want to challenge. Hey, tell me what you learned today at church that's interesting. Well, why do you think that's true? Yeah, like, I don't want to build skepticism in, but I do want to build some careful critical thinking. And by the way, that's one of the fastest things that's going away with AI is the ability to think.
- [60:23]
B
Yes.
- [60:23]
A
So that's a side conversation. Maybe we can talk about another time. But it's so vital that we challenge them and call them to more. My experience is they'll rise to the occasion.
- [60:31]
B
Oh, yeah, 100%. So is there anything else parents can do?
- [60:34]
A
Yeah, the. The last thing that I would give them is they need a vision for life and God's story. Here's the power of this one. They need a clear mission that matters, that they're involved in. You know, one of. One of the biggest questions I get. You probably get it too, when you speak to students is, how do I find God's will for my life? And that's a great question. But what an awesome better question would be is, what is God doing in the world and how can I join in? And they've got gifts, they've got talents, they got passions. And what this is going to do is it's. Yes, they'll have relational anchors like we've talked about, and rational anchors we've talked about, that this will give them an internal drive, that it matters, that I get to be a part of this. I get to go make the gospel clear. I get to go make disciples. I get to have influence. I get to be a part of what God's doing in the world in a redemptive way. I get to shine light in the darkness like you. You get that. And man, then that animates their life. They care. They want to do something with it. And then that's driving the ownership, that then they know why they believe and what they believe. And they've got relationships that matter. And they've got a grown up worldview, but now they're aiming it at something because at the end of the day, we don't want them just to survive high school and college. We want them to flourish. We want them to follow Jesus for a lifetime. The mission's too important. Important like we've. We are called to something so much bigger than our own personal comfort and pleasure in a moment and call that happiness. That's a recipe for misery and isolation. And this generation needs so much more than that. So you need to give them a way to be involved in God's bigger story and find their part in his story. Yeah, because then that's meaning and purpose. Because right now everybody's told, you've got to define your own identity and define your own meaning. For example, existence, which not only is it exhausting, it's too small. None of us are big enough to live for. Like, like at the end of the day, like, there's got to be something more bigger that I can live for. Imagine the true story of reality where you get to follow Jesus for a lifetime and be a part of his work until he comes again and, and brings everybody home and makes all things new. Sign me up for that. And it's so fun to see students. I know you get to see it too. When they get that, they're like, no, this is real Christianity. And my faith is now in the reality category, not just this little something I do on a Sunday morning category that changes everything. So you've got to find ways to get them excited and involved in the, in the mission that God's called them to do.
- [62:57]
B
That's so good. So good. Well, that is very hopeful. That does give us some, some hope as parents. You mentioned before we went on the air that you wanted to talk about two superpowers to help parents. So what are those two superpowers?
- [63:08]
A
I'm having fun with this, but these are two, two things that if you'll do these things, this will, will revolutionize the relationship with your kids and help undergird everything we've talked about. And the first one is this. And then I'll give you the skill you want to build warm, gracious relationships with your kids. And the fastest way to do this is this skill right here. This is superpower number one. Apologize and ask for forgiveness.
- [63:34]
B
So good.
- [63:35]
A
And here's why this matters. I'm not saying be a doormat. I'm not saying we're this whole gentle parent. That. That's not what I'm talking about. I'M talking about, about. We've all done it. Maybe we were irritated with our kids. Maybe we're having a bad day and maybe I got frustrated or whatever it was. They know we're not perfect, but it really helps them to know that we know and they know that we're not perfect. And the way that does is like, hey, you know, I remember we got irritated with my son one time, like, hey, bud, I'm sorry when I told you to take out the trash. And I got kind of frustrated with all that. It wasn't about the trash. I had a bad day.
- [64:09]
B
Day.
- [64:09]
A
It's on me. Will you forgive me? And don't ruin a perfectly good ask apology by putting a big butt in it. Don't qualify it. But I was this just I'm sorry. Get down to their level. Will you forgive me? What does that do? It creates warm relationships with your kids that they know they're safe, secure, and it's gracious grace based, which is, which is key. And it models in a way, kind of, kind of puts the gospel in there. And that makes all the difference because then they're like, no, I'm with my mom and dad in this journey. They're not perfect. And that one superpower of just learning to apologize quickly and specifically teaches them how to do that, but also really keeps that warm and gracious relationship. And one last thing on that, this is especially important for dads. It's vital for moms and dads. But the research says that dads, especially in this area, if you'll create those warm relationships whenever the power of a dad apologizing in that moment is, is so massive, because you're creating something that's vital in their lives for them to see dad do and mom do, but especially in that environment. So that's the first superpower is learning to apologize quickly and specifically. And that will go a long way to kind of creating that warm, gracious environment.
- [65:26]
B
I think that also is so important because it frees the kid too. Because really true forgiveness, as I've really been studying, forgiveness is not really even possible without repentance. And so when you model that repentance, there's just, there's. There's something that I think gets freed in the child's heart as well because it teaches them what that looks like and it's an example for them to follow, but also because there can be true forgiveness and reconciliation happen between a parent and child. And if you don't do it, then it almost like creates this, this barrier in the relationship. Because the kid feels like they know that you were not okay. Like you were not perfect and in the way you handled that. And so when you acknowledge that, that's so freeing, I think, for the other person. So awesome.
- [66:15]
A
And then the second superpower is learn to narrate their experiences. This, the skill here is don't let the world come in and backfill every assumption and category that your child is experiencing. Missing. So you want to be the narrator in chief in your home. Mom and dads, you can, you can, you can walk around. You can just kind of. Now, this is, this is key. This doesn't need to turn into a sermon and a lecture every time. And backing up the truck. Of the 38 reasons that we're all been studying about why this is true. There's a time and a place for that. This is just simply, hey, did you notice that person at the checkout line? And yeah, they had different color hair. Maybe that even the, the gender question. Right? I remember walking through Target one time and doing this with our kids. I was like, yeah, you know what? That person's made in God's image. And we love them. I just think they're really confused. And then that was all that we did and moved on. But what I didn't want to miss, because it would have been totally easy to not say anything. They saw it, we saw it. They're like, how do I think about this?
- [67:21]
B
Yeah.
- [67:21]
A
And so just simple. Made in God's image. Confused about God's good design in a way that was gracious and loving but hopeful but true. And so even little things like that, narrating things like, hey, it's like, even little kids, like, it's so good that God made you a boy. That was God's idea. That's a good thing. So God, so good that God made you a girl. That's a good thing. That's God's idea. Marriage is a good thing. Families are awesome, aren't they? Moving on again, not lectures. Narrating a biblical worldview as you're going to. Knowing is a superpower. So those two things apologize quickly and specifically and narrate their life experience.
- [67:57]
B
And you could do that even with, like, content, you know, movies and things. It's just quick little narrations that don't, you know, take all day. But just, hey, I really, I love the way this family dynamic is here or that, you know, I love that that consequence matched the behavior or something like that. It can be a great way to just get them to not just be taking in Content, but also be thinking through it.
- [68:19]
A
Songs, lyrics, movies, all the time.
- [68:21]
B
Everything, Everything. So good. So much to think about. This was just jam packed. And I know that you've given parents so much to think about and even more so will be if they get the book, which has just come out. So let everyone know where they can get it. And I know you've got a little something extra for people on the website, so let us know about all of that.
- [68:38]
A
Awesome. Well, they can go to WelcomeToCollege.org, so welcome to College.org, you can order the book there. You can get resources. You can get access to a free guide that's a PDF, which are five questions every student needs to ask, ask to build a lasting faith that you can kind of work through. There's also some other videos and some other helpful things there. But welcome to college.org we'll find out about how to kind of build a lasting faith and not only as a student, but also parent resources and everything else as well.
- [69:04]
B
So good. All right. Well, I want to thank my guest, Jonathan Morrow. Pick up the book welcome to College. If you have students in high school that are thinking about going to college. And again, parents, you guys need to read this, this book as well to prepare yourself to have the conversations with your kid that you will need to have. So let's remember as we pursue Christ, to keep a sharp mind, a soft heart, and a thick skin. We'll see you next time. So pray for me and I will pray for you no turning right or left will make it through the rain that's narrow and the gate that small don't give up it's gonna be worth it All.