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The Amazing Authorities Podcast
Ancient Wisdom, Modern Creativity: Regina Linke on Chinese Philosophy, Digital Art, and Building a Cultural Brand
00:37:52
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- [00:02]
A
Welcome to the Amazing Authorities podcast, where game changers, visionaries, and category leaders share how they built their brands, platforms, and global influence. Your host is Mitch Carson, international speaker, media strategist, and creator of the Instant Authority system. If you're ready to learn from those who've done it and want to become the go to expert in your space, you're in the right place.
- [00:31]
B
Taoism, Buddhism, Confucianism. For most, that may sound like a list of Asian religions. Well, these ideas feel distant or academic to others, and I remember how it felt when I studied the eight major religions in college. But today's guest has found a unique way to make them feel personal, playful, and profoundly relevant. Please welcome Regina Link to our show today.
- [01:00]
C
Hi, Mitch. Thanks so much for having me.
- [01:03]
B
And you are a comic. I mean, you've written storybooks, and I interview a lot of authors on the Amazing Authorities podcast. The reason I really wanted to pursue you is because you are different. And I don't mean different in the way that of personality, but different in the way that you express yourself and different in the way that you bring value to readers and children. So tell us how you got into this journey. Because you come from a bit of a technical background and then you then tapped into the other side of your brain.
- [01:37]
C
Yeah, I do. I mean, I would say that I agree with your assessment. I think that I approached the world of authorship and illustration in a very different angle than most people who wind up in this profession. But I am Taiwanese American. My parents immigrated from Taiwan to the US and of all places, I settled. I was born and raised in Texas.
- [02:06]
B
Nice place for Taiwanese.
- [02:10]
C
I mean, and I don't know. I mean, I think as all things in hindsight ultimately make sense, it was really from that combination of American culture, Chinese culture, that came together to really form my upbringing. And as a kid, it wasn't like I grew up necessarily with very religious parents or very dogmatic parents who really, you know, instilled Confucian, Taoist or Buddhist ideology into me growing up. But at the same time as I became more aware of these teachings and things like that, it was almost like reading a guidebook into how my parents instilled certain values within our family. And so having grown up with that and having that be the foundation through which a lot of that impacted a lot of ways in which I viewed the world. I mean, it was very formative. And so I ended up going in a completely different direction. As you said, I was an international business and Spanish major in college. Of course, instead of taking a Corporate job. I joined the Peace Corps, which is every immigrant parent's dream for their child to basically leave college and instead of pay off their student loans, join a volunteer job for two years.
- [03:49]
B
They must have freaked out, man.
- [03:52]
C
I really blindsided them with that one, but ended up going into international development and nonprofit work, working in microfinance, and ultimately landed in tourism development. And so I really went in a lot of different directions, but ultimately got an opportunity to meet with a lot of really interesting people doing really interesting things all over the world. And throughout all of this, I really did have an interest in cataloging and better understanding all the different perspectives that I was subconsciously collecting along the way. And ultimately, when I became a mom, I had an opportunity with my husband to move to Taiwan, basically. And it was in Taiwan that I had the opportunity really to take a step back professionally and invest a little bit more time in creative pursuits. So Taiwan is just a huge, you know, very rich in all of the cultural artifacts from ancient China that was rescued during the Cultural Revolution by Chiang Kai Shek and his army, bringing all of these ancient artifacts to Taiwan that is now housed in the National Palace Museum. And so I felt like it was a really interesting opportunity to get to know that side of my heritage. And so I started taking Chinese painting lessons. And my son was at an age in which he was starting to ask all these existential questions, like, where does my reflection go when I walk away from a mirror?
- [05:38]
B
Oh, boy.
- [05:39]
C
Or, you know, just, you know, like, things about, you know, life and death, you know, like, where do people go when they die? And all of this stuff. And so I started. Started to tap into, you know, some of those Confucian and Taoist philosophies that, you know, really shaped the way I saw the world when I was a kid, and combined them basically into an illustrated conversations between a young boy inspired by my son and some animal friends to discuss some of the topics that he was exploring with his young mind.
- [06:16]
B
How old was he when he was asking these questions?
- [06:18]
C
He was four, which. Wow, like, having never. Yeah, really engaged with young children. You know, I didn't do any babysitting or things like summer camps or counselors or anything like that. So, you know, my son was really kind of my introduction into the brain of a child. And I'm just like, is this normal? I don't know. But it was the empathy through which a lot of the conversations that ultimately inspired the work that I do now, which is a combination of Chinese philosophy through a modern lens and brought into the the kind of visual arts through my illustration.
- [07:05]
B
I. I love this. So you're explaining to a four year old because that's why I wanted to give some reference of where, where we're starting. So we're approaching. You've got this dual culture going on because you're American born but of Taiwanese parents. So that first generation. So a big. Then you're spending time in Taiwan where you currently are, to be a second time mother and this whole process. But to explain religion. Well, it's religion or philosophy because I remember I took, I had a pivot moment. Major epiphany when I was in college at the University of Southern California in la, where I went to school for my undergrad. And the comparative religion class changed everything about me being a very religious Christian up to that point. I had this light bulb moment when I studied Confucianism, Daoism, Buddhism, Shintoism, all the other. Well, there are the eight major religions and I only knew the Christian perspective up to that point. And it was a light bulb moment beyond I. And the teacher was an atheist and a conscientious objector from the Vietnam War, which was a senseless war effort to get into too much into politics, but it was an absolutely senseless war for America.
- [08:30]
C
Right.
- [08:30]
B
And atrocious. So he opened my mind to all these other religions and I began my own lifelong search. I live in Asia, as you know, I'm American like you, but I've been out of the country now 16 years.
- [08:47]
C
Yeah, I was just going to ask you how long it's been.
- [08:49]
B
16 years. I mean I went back during the pandemic for a brief period just to practice my American and then came back to Asia.
- [09:00]
C
But 16 years must still feel like a blink of an eye though ultimately
- [09:03]
B
it's very fast and I've learned a lot. So I, I'm very into what you're sharing because on my own, you know, during my own personal journey of religion and belief and spirituality and what and philosophy, there's so much to be said because, you know, as you know, America is a young country. It's only 250 years old, right. And China for one is at least 5,000 years old or more. I don't know the exact number. It's very ancient. Then if you go back to Africa, it's 40,000 years old with mankind, I think 40, 50,000 years. So there's a lot outside of what we are indoctrinated with in the US but you. So you come from this intellectual background and you got into peace and Then now you're a, you're. Because of your son's curiosity. I wanted to bridge that, that journey as to where now you're an author. And what have you found as an author
- [10:06]
C
from a spiritual perspective?
- [10:09]
B
Any way you want to answer it, you have the full authority to answer any way, any latitude you like.
- [10:17]
C
Yeah. So I mean, I think it is, as you say, to, to start from point A and look at point Z and not know all the different stops taken along the way. It's hard to know whether this was a direct route. You know, it does make sense. Somebody can look at me and say, oh yeah, I like Taiwanese American. It makes sense that they would tap into the philosophy and the art style and then create something like this. But yeah, as you described, you know, my, the path that I ultimately took, you know, went in very different circuitous ways and ultimately depended a lot on luck and happenstance to come together. And circuitous for sure. Yeah. But I will say that it wasn't all random and then it also wasn't all me. So I think something that as a parent I discovered was really just how limited time can be and, and then combine that with my background in business. I mean, I think that a lot of folks who invest a lot of time in a creative practice do so because it's good for them. And it is, it is a spiritual practice. It incites a spirit, you know, in large part spiritual growth for them. For them to feel like they're expressing something within them and to present it and share it with the world, that is a very powerful thing. But, and I'm not saying that that's not relevant to my work, but at the same time, I mean, I have a young family and I also have bills to pay. And so I had to approach my creative practice also with a bit of pragmatism. And so I knew that if I was serious about a creative career, that I had to find a niche that wasn't completely saturated, that wasn't yet occupied. And I feel like coming to Taiwan and learning a kind of craft that is not often seen in American publishing was an opportunity that I could take advantage of. And so I ended up taking painting classes here with a very traditional studio, very, very traditional kind of at lie studio in which, you know, the teacher is walking you through all of the most basic steps and exercises and forcing all of the students through a very rigorous practice before basically allowing you to freely express your artistic side. It was not the kind of free flowing artistic lifestyle that I was expecting, but a very regimented disciplined, you know, study to learn the canon, you know, the very long canon of traditional Chinese painting and art history. But, you know, in the end, it was actually my teacher who pushed me in a different direction, because as I was taking classes with him, he approached me, basically, and was like, you know, for somebody who grew up in the States who didn't immerse themselves, you know, growing up in a Chinese environment, soaking up all of the cultural nuance and aesthetic, you know, she feels like, you're. You're pretty good. You're pretty good at this. But never. You will never be a great Gombi. Painting painter, which is gonbi, is the style that I was learning from.
- [14:24]
B
Okay. He said, you'll never be a great one.
- [14:26]
C
Yeah. He was just like. He was just like, you'll never. You'll never make it.
- [14:30]
B
Talk about Chinese directness, man.
- [14:32]
C
I know. And I tell people, I was like, this is. This is, like, heartbreaking for me because I grew up in the states in the 90s, you know, when we were getting participation trophies for everything.
- [14:44]
B
Right, right, right.
- [14:45]
C
And for.
- [14:46]
B
This is a blunt strike.
- [14:49]
C
Exactly. And for, you know, my teacher to basically close the door on a potential career in this field for me was pretty harsh. But at the same time, he backed up his judgment. He said it wasn't because I wasn't necessarily good enough. But he said, you have to look at the landscape. I mean, there are people, not just in Taiwan, but also in China, hundreds upon thousands of art students who have been practicing at this craft since they were old enough to hold a pen. Oh. And they're incredibly good, incredibly talented, incredibly.
- [15:35]
B
You're a later rival, essentially, is what
- [15:36]
C
I am, a late arrival. I also am a fish out of water. And so for me to try to compete on that level just didn't make sense. And it's not to say that I couldn't have done it, but is that really how I wanted to spend my time? Because I would have had to give up a lot of things that I enjoyed. I would have had to give up probably a lot of sleep time with my family. And he said, you know, you have to think about what your priorities are, and if you're not prepared to make those sacrifices, then you might as well accept now that that road is closed off to you. And I had to be honest with myself. You know, I wasn't going to sacrifice time with my son, my sleep, my health, just for the sake of the chance to compete with all of these other artists who probably already are miles ahead of me. Technically, and so, you know, I accepted that kind of judgment and I said, well, then, you know, what can I do? And so he said, well, you know, you take what you have, you have your Western upbringing, you have your Western ideas of what artistic composition can look like, how you can tell stories with your art from that perspective. And I can take the techniques that he taught me that I've been practicing at and basically forge my own path and see if there's a way forward using both what I learned from him and my perspective as a person who grew up in the US My understanding of business, my understanding of publishing and what readers might be interested in. And so it was really that push that came from the outside, that came from my teacher, that really forced me to look at what the opportunities were for launching a career in publishing and to really get my foot in the door as a completely untested illustrator. And so I took his advice and I started basically a practice in which I was taking some of the, you know, a lot of the skills that he taught me and putting it towards digital illustration. So. But previously I had been learning everything using traditional materials. And so I was like, okay, well, you know, if I'm going to, you know, be able to compete as an illustrator, you know, I have to be able to do this, you know, produce, you know, in a way that is, you know, where I can get practice, you know, on a regular basis and produce, you know, my work, you know, a lot more consistently. And so I took it to the digital environment and tried to recreate a lot of the effects that I learned using traditional media on Procreate, which is an app for the iPad, and I basically use the iPad exclusively now to create all of my illustrations. And so it took a lot of work to get to where I am, but it was definitely, you know, methodical. And, you know, I, I had to think really hard about what I wanted to do, given that certain options just weren't available anymore.
- [19:12]
B
Well, let's chat for a second, because you, you, you, you said a lot, the artistic side, but then you balanced your experience as a business person or in business, working in business, and then you realized, okay, combining these skills, because I have found in my year and I've written quite a few books myself, it is very challenging to write your first book. The second's easier, and then so on.
- [19:40]
C
Oh, is it?
- [19:41]
B
Oh, sure. The first one is the hardest. Always is you're birthing something, then you gotta feed it and the feeding of your book, providing gerberds on a daily basis or every Few hours or whatever it is you're spoon feeding it. Reviews, exposure, podcasts, television experiences, you know, book signings. That's the heavy lifting. That's the feeding and putting the fuel in the engine for the book. Because birthing it and driving it off the lot. If it's a car, is it a metaphor? And then you got to put gas in it. And the gas is the reviews. The gas is doing podcast interviews like this. And tell us about your book, because I want to give it a little gas.
- [20:30]
C
Sure. So the. Well, I'll start with the overview, basically. So the entire project, basically, is called the Oxford Boy. And it started as an Instagram comic. Okay. Basically illustrated inspirational conversation inspired by ancient Chinese philosophy. And so I think you're right. The first book was the easiest. Because it ended up being the easiest or the hardest. The easiest. Oh, wait, no, you said it was the hardest. The first book was the hardest. Yeah. Okay. So. So that's why I was a little confused because my first book, I felt like, was the easiest because it was a collection.
- [21:13]
B
Okay.
- [21:14]
C
The work that was already existing on social media. So it was. It was easy to collect it and basically weave it all together into a more cohesive story. So there were over a hundred of these placed in an inspirational book for adults.
- [21:36]
B
Well, let me jump in here. And I want to help the people that are listening. What she says is true. She used already existing assets. My first published book with John Wiley and Sons was my master's thesis. Then I expanded from there. So I had a. A base of content. You had a base of content.
- [21:56]
C
Right, right.
- [21:57]
B
All right, so we're both. We are in agreement there. That part is easy. Er, I won't say writing a book
- [22:03]
C
is easy ever, Ever.
- [22:06]
B
Yeah, so it was easy, er, to have existing content. So for people that are listening or watching us, understand, if you have a body of work, if you've conducted a whole bunch of interviews, that's a good starting. You've got a hub of information. You can draw from there and expand it. But for somebody for. To take out a pen, now we won't even talk about AI, but to take out a pen and start drawing from scratch.
- [22:34]
C
Sure.
- [22:34]
B
That is a harder birthing process.
- [22:36]
C
Yes.
- [22:37]
B
Than an already existing child and putting it together.
- [22:41]
C
Yeah, Just dressing it, Dressing it up nicely.
- [22:44]
B
Yeah. So I just want to point out for the listeners, you and I shared the same background in terms of existing content. We breathe life into and an easier path. So when I say the first book is the hardest, I'm referring to the more Common method of, oh, gosh, I've got a pen and a paper. How am I going to scratch this out? And that. That is really challenging. When you do it a second time, it's easier. But when you ride without training wheels, you need training wheels on your bicycle to begin, but at some point, you're able to take the training wheels off and just soar and balance and ride. And that's what I was referring to. So I just want to make sure everybody understands that.
- [23:26]
C
There is definitely a distinction. And even in creating that body of work that ultimately became my first book, it was definitely harder to draw. You know, the first, the first comic, the second comic, the third comic. But by the time, you know, I reached the 45th, the 46th comic, it was. It was definitely a lot easier. So I agree. I think, like, the.
- [23:52]
B
You put in the reps. You already had the reps. You had some big biceps at this point.
- [23:56]
C
Exactly. And I mean, I also say that it's also important to have those really difficult starting moments, because unless I went through the Force, 30 really terrible comics that I, I feel like I did not execute well on, I could not have made that 31st comic in which I was like, okay, I'm actually pretty happy with this. So definitely, like, had got to put in the hard, hard work, the blood, sweat and tears before, you know, feeling satisfied with something that that's actually, you know, that, that you put out there.
- [24:34]
B
And so when you, what did you do when you launched your book? Talk about that for a second. So you had this compilation, put it together, dressed it up, and then birthed it. What did you do next?
- [24:48]
C
Yeah, so I think it was definitely helpful to have the base on Instagram. I think that people, like creators, have a love hate relationship with social media. I've talked to some people who describe it as just like a toxic relationship.
- [25:08]
B
Okay.
- [25:09]
C
And, but, but I don't know. I think that there wasn't. It was a great fit for what I was doing because Instagram was visual. The writing that I was doing was relatively short form. There were already some accounts who were doing something similar and was getting pretty good traction. So I had a feeling that Instagram was the best fit for what I was doing. And I think the other thing is a lot of creators have their own creator accounts. And I went in a different direction in which I created a completely new account just for the work, just for the project. And so it wasn't necessarily, like, convincing people to follow me or follow or like me and the things that I
- [25:57]
B
wish versus the content? Yes.
- [25:58]
C
Yeah, it was like, okay, like, what do you think about this project, this work? And, and so I really wanted the account to be focused on, right, the, the characters that I was presenting and the conversations there. And it turned out to be a really great decision because ultimately the account actually did go viral on a couple of occasions. And it wasn't necessarily that, like, I depended on my Instagram followers to ultimately become the people who, like, bought my book. Although I'm sure there's a bit of overlap. But it was more just kind of a proof of concept. Like, as someone who doesn't know, who's never written anything, who's never drawn anything professionally, like, I don't know what people respond to. And so to simply have this as an experiment, a testing ground that ultimately became a proving ground for the book, which is called the Oxford Boy. For the Oxford Boy, it was a way for me and my agent, my literary agent to approach publishers and be like, hey, like, this is something that could be powerful, that could be highly impactful, a positive, you know, work to be placed out there in the market for people to enjoy. And how do we know that? Because, you know, like, we have this Instagram account in which people are really responding to it. And so to have that base already in place even before the book was launched ended up being a really valuable kind of asset to have. And so by the time the, the book was ready to go on sale, I, I was, you know, constantly engaging my followers on Instagram, but also, you know, kind of converting them to my email newsletters in which I was sharing more behind the scenes content, you know, works in progress, like time lapses of myself kind of doing the illustrations. So, you know, giving people a reason to be excited to have the Oxford Boy comics kind of in a different format, in a traditional format that, well,
- [28:31]
B
it's smart that you set up a separate channel for it. I think that's where people mix out in that strategic move. So you leveraged Instagram because is that where your target market listens to you or views what you have? I mean, it wouldn't necessarily be on LinkedIn for CEO, so that would be a message to market mismatch. So I want to talk about that. Regina, how old are the people that are reviewing your or looking at your book? Or is it the parents, typically the mothers that are taking their children through it? Tell us about who that is.
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C
Yeah, so I would say that, I mean, if, I mean, going off of how we started on Instagram, it was largely age 25 to 48.
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B
Okay.
- [29:19]
C
Female.
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B
Female.
- [29:21]
C
So I would say that the way
- [29:23]
B
Asian or anyone largely.
- [29:27]
C
Yeah, probably India, Southeast Asia were probably kind of the biggest geographical areas represented. And then urban areas, urban cities basically
- [29:40]
B
in the US of Asian heritage. Or, or.
- [29:45]
C
Well, I, I didn't have that information.
- [29:47]
B
Okay.
- [29:47]
C
Yeah.
- [29:48]
B
Well, I'm just curious who the, who the target is, because sometimes people resonate with like minded people. It isn't always true, but there are, my gosh, America's got what, 340 million people. I don't know how, what, what percentage comprise Asian Americans? And of course there are the different groups inside silos, inside that.
- [30:08]
C
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
- [30:10]
B
So then, so that's. You mentioned the age group female and the platform that they consume information on, relevant to their children would be Instagram, you think is the most. Or what it means.
- [30:23]
C
I mean, I think, I think, I mean, I chose Instagram almost purely because of the visual nature of the, of the channel, because I wanted to, you know, put my illustrations out there. So, you know, aside from Flickr. Not Flickr, Pinterest.
- [30:43]
B
Pinterest, I was going to say next.
- [30:44]
C
Yeah, like it was either Pinterest or Instagram. Of course now, like, you know, Instagram has really pivoted towards videos and things like that. So I mean, at the time when I was starting it, Instagram and Pinterest were kind of the two that I could choose from. Pinterest, I don't know, it just felt like a little bit more of a rabbit hole to me and less curated. If I was going to create kind of a platform just for the content and more focused on like how tos and things like that and projects, crafts. And so I felt like that wasn't exactly the fit for, you know, I wasn't going to say like, oh, how to be a more philosophical like person.
- [31:28]
B
Well, what about, what about Tik Tok? Tik Tok has got a bookshop.
- [31:32]
C
Yeah, a lot of book talks.
- [31:33]
B
Have you used that?
- [31:35]
C
No, I'm not on Tik Tok.
- [31:37]
B
Okay, well, it's not just for dancing teenagers.
- [31:39]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [31:40]
B
Showcasing different types of assets. But there is a legitimate. I've heard about authors using. I have not used it myself. Something I'm going to be investigating over the next 30 days because I've just heard recently one of my author clients used it and sold a lot of books.
- [31:58]
C
Oh, okay.
- [31:59]
B
I misunderstood the demographic. So there are people like you and I, let's say more people say slightly, well, you're a lot younger than me, but you get the point. Not in their teens, shaking on and dancing. So there are legitimate business. There's a legitimate business to be had on TikTok.
- [32:21]
C
Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think a lot of the. I mean, once the book is out there, you know, keeping the momentum beyond launch is definitely, like you said, it's. It's a marathon. And finding opportunities in which the works can be showcased. And to be showcased to new audiences who may not have heard of you or the project yet is definitely an ongoing project, an ongoing work. And every day new channels can pop up that provide new opportunities. So, I mean, I think it's great that you're continuously looking into these new channels and finding ways in which you can still open up new feeders for people to get to know the things that you're working on.
- [33:12]
B
Well, great. Well, we'll show the book to our people. I don't know if you've got one handy because you're in Taiwan right now.
- [33:19]
C
No, this was like one of the kind of most ill timed trips. Yeah. I mean, but that's life, right? I mean, it's perfect.
- [33:29]
B
This is perfect.
- [33:29]
C
Yeah.
- [33:30]
B
But, yeah, it works just fine. We'll show. What's the name of your book? Let's talk about that so people could get it again.
- [33:37]
C
Okay. So, you know, my. My first book was the Oxford Boy, but I will go into a little bit more. So ultimately, you know, actually pulling from the body of work, the content. Right. The Oxford Boy actually, you know, follows the story of a boy, an ox and a rabbit. And so the children's books that I'm now working on basically take a couple of panels from the Oxford Boy book and basically fleshes them out into more childlike narratives. Okay. You know, it's kind of like building that, that, that pyramid where you start with the body of work and then you kind of just dig deeper and create more and more works based the. The prod. The things that are already separate silos.
- [34:26]
B
Right there.
- [34:26]
C
Yeah. But so the. The book that's coming out May 5th is called Little Helper. And it is a completely. A 40 page illustrated book that dives deeper into Taoist philosophies. And so it basically presents a very simple, a very tightly woven modern fable about a young boy who has plans for a perfect day, but is stymied at every turn. And it explores exactly how he can exploit basically an opportunity to help in one small instance in a way that basically creates a cascade of solutions throughout his village. And he ultimately gets his perfect day after all. Oh, yeah.
- [35:20]
B
Sounds fun.
- [35:22]
C
Yeah. I mean, I think that it kind of explores the idea of effortless action in Taoism, which is basically, you know, life is full of changes and challenges. And the best thing that we can do is to learn how to flow effortlessly with them and find opportunities to take an action that ultimately will bring about opportunities for other people to do the same and to work together to resolve problems before they become too big. And I think that that is such a critical lesson, especially in a time when people are looking for ways to help their communities, but then at the same time feeling overwhelmed with the scope of our problems. And so I hope that little helper not only speaks to speaks to kids, but also, you know, the parents who are reading them and wondering what they can do. So it's great.
- [36:23]
B
Well, thank you. You've been a great guest. So they can go to Amazon and buy your book and then the subsequent books that are following. And is there a site for Regina herself or.
- [36:39]
C
Yeah. So if you want to follow the creator, this reginalink.com but if you are interested in the projects in the philosophy, OxfordBoy.org is where you can get all of the latest.
- [36:51]
B
And what about Instagram? What's your handle for the book?
- [36:58]
C
For the book it's Oxford Boy.
- [37:00]
B
Oxford Boy. Okay. Is the handle there? Well, great. I've appreciated the time together and I'm a big fan of daoism. I think I mentioned that early on and there's so much to be learned outside of our little box. And thank you for being an amazing authority on the Amazing Authorities podcast today.
- [37:20]
C
Thanks so much, Mitch. It was a lot of fun.
- [37:23]
A
Thanks for tuning in to the Amazing Authorities podcast. If today's episode inspired you, take a moment to subscribe, rate and leave a review. It helps more experts like you rise to the top for behind the scenes access and free resources to boost your authority. Head to MitchCarson.com until next time, stay amazing.