← The Amazing Authorities Podcast
The Amazing Authorities Podcast
Breaking Boxes & Building Empires: How Betsy Pepin Scaled Real Estate, Reinvented Leadership & Designed a Life of Freedom
00:52:47
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- [00:02]
A
Welcome to the Amazing Authorities podcast, where game changers, visionaries, and category leaders share how they built their brands, platforms, and global influence. Your host is Mitch Carson, international speaker, media strategist, and creator of the Instant Authority system. If you're ready to learn from those who've done it and want to become the go to expert in your space, you're in the right place. Welcome to the Amazing Authorities podcast. Today I have from Florida, with her beautiful red top, she's had her colors done. She looks great. Betsy. Papine. Or is it papine, please? Pepin. All right, well, I got it right. Or pepine. Yeah, I guess if you had the British in you, maybe they would have.
- [00:51]
B
It was. It was actually Italian Pepino.
- [00:54]
A
Oh, Pepino. All right, well, this was Ellis Island. Is that what happened?
- [00:57]
B
Yeah.
- [00:57]
A
Okay.
- [00:58]
B
Yeah.
- [00:58]
A
All right. Well, there you go. Well, we're. We're here. And I had Italian food last night, so I didn't know it was in your honor, Betsy. I had really good spaghetti and pizza, so I. I had it. You know, I'm in Thailand, but there's a fantastic Italian restaurant across from where I live, and I frequent it probably two, three days a week. I might even for breakfast this morning. And they. They have outstanding food, so you just made me hungry. Thank you.
- [01:27]
B
Thank you all.
- [01:28]
A
Based on your last name and you're here today. Now tell. Tell us a little bit about your background. I know that you're in the real estate business in the Asia, they call that property business. But how did you get into this?
- [01:43]
B
So, like a lot of people in real estate, which I didn't realize, real estate tends to be a second or third or fourth career for people, at least in the U.S. it's not common to go in right from school. My first career was in the pharmaceutical industry, doing marketing in big Pharma up in the Northeast in the United States. But as. As often does, life throws us some curveballs. And when I was 31, I was laid off from the pharmaceutical company that I was working for. It was a one product company. The company did not get f. The product did not get FDA approval. So they laid off the commercial division of which I was a part of. And that, combined with a abrupt and unexpected divorce, makes. We were talking earlier makes one like pause and pivot. And so I used that time to reevaluate my life and the trajectory I was on and decided that perhaps Source Universe, God was telling me that I wasn't on the right path, and what would I be doing if I was given the chance to Start over, which I really was being given. And so I decided to try real estate because it was something that I had dabbled in in business school. My parents had always had investment properties and land and so I had a little bit of a background in it and so started in real estate, gave myself two years, had an exit strategy if it didn't work out. And it worked out beautifully. I knew I would like it. I didn't realize I would love it. And I, I loved it. I felt like I had found my passion prior to that. I'd always thought that doing what you loved, you really, you did what you loved when you went home at night. You know, I didn't realize you could truly work and make a living doing what you loved until I got into real estate. And that was 20, about. Yeah, just over 20 years ago. And just have been building ancillary businesses from that. You know, I started with the brokerage and then instead of expanding geographically, I expanded vertically. And so I started a title company, I started a, a mortgage company, I started a real estate school to attract agents, a property management company. And then probably the most rewarding is the nonprofit that helps address the affordable housing crisis we have in our, in our country and in our area. And we have partnered with Habitat for Humanity, which I don't know if they have that in Thailand, but it's a.
- [04:15]
A
No, but I remember that's. That was founded by President Carter, wasn't it?
- [04:19]
B
I don't know if it was founded by him, but he was very active in it. But it may have been, I don't know that it was truly founded by him, but very, very big supporter of it. And what I love about it is it's a hand up, not a handout. But so we build homes, we raise, we fundraise and sponsor the homes. And then we, we build the homes alongside the families that are going to be moving into them. And we really get to see the impact that a home makes on a family. You know, so much than just the four walls and a, and a ceiling. It changes health outcomes, it changes educational outcomes, quality of life metrics. I mean, everything improves when you have stable housing. So that's kind of how I got to where I am today.
- [05:04]
A
Residential, because my mother was a realtor in Los Angeles, so I grew up around this. It was always location, location, location. I heard that in my sleep. So I. She was strictly residential. Is your agency strictly residential or do you also spill over?
- [05:19]
B
No, we do both. We do residential, we do commercial, we do investment, short term rentals. Long term rentals. We kind of really run the gamut. I would say the majority of our business tends to be residential, but we do service the whole spectrum.
- [05:38]
A
And are you. Do you have one office or are you multi office? You're in.
- [05:42]
B
We. So interesting you asked that. We had three offices in three different cities in north central Florida. And then right as right before COVID hit, we closed down. And so glad we closed the physical offices, but we still service those cities as well as a host of other ones as well. So we cover basically the north half of the state of Florida coast to coast. But, you know, Covid really changed the way people work, and we didn't feel like we needed the physical office anymore. A lot of people are comfortable, especially agents working remotely. Wow. We don't need that. So.
- [06:19]
A
All right. There's no big signage out front. And it's all there is there is.
- [06:24]
B
In our one big city.
- [06:25]
A
Oh, so there is still a physical office.
- [06:27]
B
There's still a large 5,200 square feet of physical office in one city. And then everybody else is remote and dials in.
- [06:36]
A
Okay, well, that makes it simple because. All right, that's just reduced the heavy. I. I get it. Covid was a major pivot for me too, in. In my work. And today it's. We're in a hybrid world, aren't we?
- [06:52]
B
I know options nowadays, you know, I mean, it's beautiful, the options that people have and the flexibility and the ability to geographically be pretty much anywhere and not be limited by career choice, which I love.
- [07:05]
A
And even some of the large, well known universities, which would probably poo poo online universities for MBA programs and whatnot, now offer online education. I even think some of the Ivy League schools Harvard has online. You think you would never. An old stodgy university. Now you're from the Northeast. Tell us where you. Where did you. Where did you go to school?
- [07:29]
B
So college I went to Duke, which is in North Carolina, and then graduate school, I went to Wharton, which is at the University of Pennsylvania.
- [07:39]
A
I know about it. And it's been absolutely celebrated by the commander in chief. His name is Donald J. Trump.
- [07:50]
B
He's a little older than me, so.
- [07:51]
A
Oh, I think a lot.
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B
We did not cross paths, but.
- [07:54]
A
Oh, I knew he wasn't a classmate and he didn't go there for grad school. It was his undergrad. I don't think he has a graduate degree.
- [08:01]
B
Okay. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, he did go undergrad. I went for the graduate program for the mba.
- [08:06]
A
Got it. No, I know it's one of the finer schools in the country. I'm an SC guy. Southern California, not South Carolina. I'd be talking a little bit different. Would not. Okay, yeah.
- [08:16]
B
But interesting about COVID My daughter, My younger daughter ended up going to Duke and she was there during COVID and she was studying abroad in Australia.
- [08:26]
A
Uhhuh.
- [08:27]
B
And so Australia closed their borders very quickly. And so Duke is like, come home. You know, you need to be home. And she's like, no, I want to stay. And so they let her dial in for the. For the next two years. She dialed into classes and she graduated in Australia with a diploma from Duke and. And took Duke classes the whole time. So they pivoted very nicely and allowed her to stay there. So. Yeah. So colleges are adjusting.
- [08:56]
A
Did she remain there? Did she come home?
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B
She is still there. She went in. She went in 2019 and she just got her citizenship this year.
- [09:06]
A
She did not want to go back. Did not want to come back.
- [09:09]
B
She loves their. And I've been there and it's. I understand why, but she loves their quality of life and the work life. Balance that.
- [09:18]
A
What city she's in?
- [09:20]
B
Sydney.
- [09:20]
A
Yeah, I. I ran about. Total about 200 events in Australia coast to coast. So I know the country very well. And Sydney, I. Parallel to Los Angeles from my youth. Not where it is today. Today is. It's a pit. But back then it was same weather because you just flip it. It's just.
- [09:42]
B
Yeah.
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A
South of the equator versus north of the equator and same weather. Smaller than LA. It's only 5 million people. But it's fashionable, it's safer, all of these elements. And it's a great city. I could see why is she talking funny now? H. Is she talking funny now?
- [09:59]
B
She has a couple words that like, she'll say, I reckon, you know. Reckon we don't use that, you know.
- [10:06]
A
I reckon not unless you're from South Carolina.
- [10:09]
B
And then there's just, you know, she does a lot of S's where we use Z's and. And, you know, some of the syntax. And then I have noticed recently that her sentences end on the up.
- [10:23]
A
Yes, yes.
- [10:24]
B
So. So yes, I'm noticing a little. I don't think she notices it, but I definitely notice. Yeah.
- [10:29]
A
Well, the first time I went to Australia to speak at an event in Melbourne, I landed, took a shower. I landed. I didn't take a shower right away. Checked into my hotel and. And they said, go to the right, Mr. Carson, here's your. Here's your. Your key, which was standard, was the plastic card. This was 2006, I believe it was. And go to the right. Take a lift. I said, lift what? It's an elevator. The stamp in the frame says Otis Elevator Company, but they called it a lift. And I was so confused by the vocabulary in the beginning, and it was an adjustment, but great country, great people, and.
- [11:10]
B
Yeah.
- [11:12]
A
Is there legacy involved with your kids? Do they want to jump in and. And get into the real estate business like Mom?
- [11:19]
B
Well, so interesting. So. So both. I have two daughters and they're 15 months apart. So they were both in college during COVID and I like to have investment properties, and I had some Airbnbs, and so I said to them, I said, hey, I don't want to manage these. Why don't you manage them for me? So they both took a set of Airbnbs and they managed them from their dorm rooms, and it was a great experience for them. And so then my one daughter graduated and moved to New York City during COVID Right. And so she continued to do that, and she just. She got a real estate license in. In New York and then started building her company. So she has one of the largest Airbnb property management countries in our area. She ended up moving back to Florida, but. And now she's actually in law school. But she still has that company because during COVID she started managing my properties, and my other daughter in Australia still has the properties that I had asked her to help me manage while she was in college. She still manages those for me remotely in the US she does it in Australia. She. Mine. My properties are in the US but she manages them from Australia.
- [12:34]
A
Okay.
- [12:34]
B
Yeah.
- [12:35]
A
Wow.
- [12:36]
B
Well, yeah. So it works.
- [12:37]
A
Yeah, I guess so.
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B
So they're both in it, In. In a way?
- [12:40]
A
Yeah. Well, inadvertently or. Well, directly, I would say. So that's good.
- [12:46]
B
Directly. You know, one of the things I really advocate for everybody, including the agents that work for me, is having multiple sources of income. And my parents drilled that into me when I was a kid. They modeled that for me and my sisters, and it really gives you so much freedom. And so I wanted to encourage that for my daughters. And so that's. That's a source of revenue for them that, you know, if all else fails, they have. They have a stream of income.
- [13:13]
A
Well, in the other, during COVID which is an interesting discussion, we could talk about this forever. There was something called essential services where food restaurants thrive, delivery thrive. That whole sector of food or restaurants making big money thrived, and it's still there today. People got accustomed to grab food and. Or What. What's our Uber Eats? Uber Eats Housing. People still need it, right? Badly.
- [13:49]
B
Yeah. We were considered essential if Florida was one of the best states to. To be in during COVID Because Covid helped us. You know, I don't like to say that because it. I mean, I understand the devastation, but from. From an employment standpoint, it was one of the best things that ever happened to us because people flocked to Florida to get away from the cold weather, they could work remotely. Why not be at the beach? I mean, airbnbs were doing phenomenally in. In Florida, so it really. And we never. Like Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, where I'm from, they shut down. They were not considered essential for some period of time. We. We did not miss a day of work. We were not. We were never not considered essential.
- [14:33]
A
Yes. And that's one thing about real estate. You mentioned multiple streams of income. I know Robert Allen wrote a book on that from the real estate industry. He called it Multiple Streams. It was a New York Times bestseller.
- [14:45]
B
Oh, okay.
- [14:46]
A
Yeah, he's spoken. I've been on stages with him around the world. He's big real estate training guy. He's in his 70s now, but his book is Multiple Streams of Income. And, yeah, it became a New York Times best. He's written, like four of them, all in the real estate sector, but he's in the real estate. Multiple streams of income. You own a title company, you've got a mortgage company, and then you said the nonprofit. What happens if the real estate market tanks? What if interest rates go up 200 basis points? I don't care if you've got a title company. But they're all inter. Interdependent.
- [15:23]
B
That's very right. So that's very true. So we also have a property management company. Okay, so because. So usually. Not always, but usually when sales are down, rentals are up and vice versa. So that helps equate it. But I also only put so much of my personal income in real estate. And I have diversified in crypto and in the stock market. Those are the two probably big things that I park money in as well. So I'm diversified. My portfolio is diversified as well.
- [16:03]
A
All right, Betsy, I'm curious now. This is a little bit of a personal question. I was a stockbroker years ago with Merrill Lynch. I went to their training program in Princeton three weeks, and it was fantastic. I understand the markets, the equity markets, understand the bond markets. I know how they work, why they work. How do you make sense of crypto? That's what I. I don't get it's buying in.
- [16:28]
B
I was what, I was mining crypto until about three months ago.
- [16:32]
A
What does that mean, mining it? Do you have a pickaxe? I just don't get it. Nobody's explained it to me properly. Where there's. What's the pe, what's the, what are the fundamentals? I'm a Graham and Dodd aficionado of, of investments and I, I just don't get it. I'm an MBA also and I don't get where, where, how do you put anything underneath it.
- [16:56]
B
But how do you put anything underneath our own currency? It's all based on trust. Right?
- [17:01]
A
All right, well, currency is different. Okay. I'm talking about buying into companies. Let's M. Blue chips. I'm not going to refer to IBM, that's been a disaster. At one time it was considered a blue chip. But what about Procter and Gamble? Classic. Those are consumables that we all need. We need hair products, we need food. They're diversified. Right, That I understand. PE price, earnings ratio. Get it? Cash flow, you can look at that deductively. But how do you, how do you look at crypto in a way that makes sense? And I, I want to be educated because.
- [17:38]
B
Well, I'm not. I will. I am the first to admit that I am an early adopter of things. I jump into things and then I research them.
- [17:47]
A
Oh my gosh.
- [17:48]
B
Okay, so, but, and I, I don't.
- [17:49]
A
Sounds like a marriage.
- [17:51]
B
Well, so. No, that's not true. But, but, but I mean I love the concept of not being dependent only on paper money. And so, and I, and I love new technology. I unders. I, I see the value in it. I love the idea that you don't have to pay a ton of money and wait several days to transfer money overseas. I mean we, we sometimes see that even with real estate where people in other countries trying to get their currency over here, closings are delayed because we can't quickly get money. And it's crazy. So I like, I like aspect the, the, you know this. They, they've reduced the obstacles of.
- [18:37]
A
Okay, all right.
- [18:38]
B
So I see the, a huge value in that. And so I just, and then mining it was just, you know, you just buy computers and you. Well, I did it through a mining company. So I had nine, nine computers going out and I think they were in Texas. And what was the other location? Georgia. Six in Texas, three in Georgia. And you know, they're go. The problem with mining is it, it is very resource intensive.
- [19:10]
A
A lot of electricity.
- [19:11]
B
I understand Yes, a lot of electricity. They're down all the time. I know there's, you know, emissions issues, things like that. But anyway, so you mine the crypto, then every so often they deposit some amount in your bank. Don't put it, you have to be careful about what crypto wallet you put it in. Because I learned the hard way because like I told you, I don't do a ton of research before I invest. And I had it in the Celsius wallet, which went bankrupt. So I was like, oh my gosh. So I lost a chunk of money because the company went belly up. And, and like I had earned the money, but I had deposited basically in a bank. But it was a crypto wallet that went belly up. So there's definitely risks. You can only do this with money that you can afford to lose. But I find it exciting to be in the. What's just dabbling in what's up and coming.
- [20:06]
A
Well, and in some cases it does turn out well. I shared the stage with a man in Singapore some years ago. It's probably been about 10 years. It was before the pandemic. And he bought 20,000 shares of Bitcoin at that time. 20,000 shares. I think he, he said it was less than a dollar when he bought it. And I did the math on that too long. This is a man that was already hugely successful in, in my industry and he was speaking around the world and he, he started some very big courses. Extremely successful. This is a man that reads a book every morning from 4am till 7 and super brilliant man. And he bought this as a, ah, I'll, I'll try. I'll throw 20 grand at it. Right, do 20. If you run the numbers. 20 grand, it's over a billion dollars. A billion dollars. And yeah, so he could afford a steak dinner, you know, for any number of families. I think he could do.
- [21:09]
B
Yeah.
- [21:10]
A
All that was just one of his investments, I think probably one of the best. But 20, 000 shares. I looked, right, and then he told me about this 10 years ago. And I said, ah, I don't know. I, I posed the same question to him. I said, well, why did you invest in this? Why? I don't get it. It's a smart guy and an attorney by trade. And he said, you know, I invested in the dot com boom and that, that some of those worked out, some of them didn't. I sold in time. And this, ah, might as well, it's new. He gives the same answer you did. I like to be cutting edge. He was in his 80s already. He said, what the heck? And. And did it.
- [21:46]
B
And it's f. It's fun. Like, I don't. For some reason, I want that. Like, I don't want. To me, just putting money in the stock market is not very interesting to me.
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A
No.
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B
So I do not.
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A
Sexy, is it?
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B
Right? And so sometimes I think even if I lose some money, at least it was fun. And I learned something, you know, Vegas.
- [22:06]
A
Is calling you, my dear.
- [22:08]
B
I do like Vegas. I am a blackjack player.
- [22:13]
A
Okay, well, Vegas is calling. I think they have the places in Mississippi or what is it? Biloxi.
- [22:20]
B
Oh, Biloxi. Yeah.
- [22:20]
A
Yeah. Biloxi has places. I'm sure they'd welcome your money. And, well, you've got Atlantic City, but that's probably not.
- [22:28]
B
We have the Hard Rock. I'm not a big gambler, but we have the Hard Rock Cafe in Tampa.
- [22:34]
A
Oh.
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B
Oh, there's a casino there now?
- [22:38]
A
Oh, I didn't even know that. Okay. Yeah, there's. There's a. There's a Hard Rock Cafe here in.
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B
Okay.
- [22:45]
A
In. In Thailand, which is interesting, but it's not. Not a casino.
- [22:49]
B
Oh, okay.
- [22:51]
A
Just a hotel. But tell me about your book. You've put your heart and soul into that. Oh, you just took a deep inhale. I saw that. I saw that breath. It went in and it just came out.
- [23:04]
B
That, yeah, that book was a labor of love.
- [23:06]
A
Okay.
- [23:07]
B
People asked me why I wrote it. I said, I didn't really write it. It was birthed. You know, it was coming.
- [23:13]
A
Sure.
- [23:14]
B
So that book came to be because about 10 years ago, I'm 56. And when I was 46, when I was in my mid-40s, I started feeling just discontent, you know, with my life. And it actually took me a couple of years to even admit that to myself, because I'm very aware of how blessed I am. And I didn't feel like I had the right to be unhappy, but I was unhappy. And when I explored that further, through a variety of different modalities, what I uncovered was, you know, I had felt like I had checked off all these boxes of what society, my family, what I read, Everything around me told me, this is what it means, or this is what you have to do to be successful. And I thought thus happy. Realized I wasn't getting. I didn't have the fulfillment that I thought I. I wanted to have at that time in my life. And the source of that dissatisfaction came from a continuous. In various situations throughout my life, this feeling of confinement. And I compared it to, if You've ever had the misfortune of ordering a bed mattress from Amazon. It arrives at your porch on a. In a little box, and you're thinking, there's no way. They sent me that king size mattress and it's in that box. And you lug that box inside, you rip open the box, and lo and behold, two days later, that mattress has expanded to the size it was meant to be. I felt that I was that mattress stuck in that box. And the. The boxes, people say, well, what do you mean? Because the book is called Breaking Boxes, Dismantling the metaphorical boxes that bind us. People say, what do you mean by metaphorical? Metaphorical boxes? And what I mean are the, the beliefs, the attitudes, the expectations that your family of origin, society, your industry, your gender, your religion, your. Your peer group, you know, we're bombarded with all this messaging on how we're supposed to live, what we're supposed to believe, how we're supposed to act. And I felt like I was living that life. That was, it was a. Did you. Have you ever watched the Truman Show?
- [25:31]
A
Yes.
- [25:32]
B
It was like I felt like I was Truman and I was on this set. The set was orchestrated by others, you know, and it wasn't my design. And, and so when I started sharing my stories with others, people had their own stories. And I could tell that it was a topic that resonated with them, but it's not often talked about. And uncovering what these boxes are for different people. We all have them, but they're all different. And then why? Why, if we know they are no longer serving us, why do we choose to stay in them? And so that's why I wrote the book. Because I thought if I could just help one person think about their life in a different way by having them read my stories and my journey through these boxes and what I've learned, then the effort will have been worth it. So that's how the book came to be.
- [26:24]
A
And you have a course?
- [26:26]
B
Yep, I have a course. Because once I wrote the book and started talking on podcasts, people said, I love the book. How do I do this for myself? Because the book was a lot of my stories. A little bit of how to, but a lot of my stories. And so then the course is a follow up to the book, which really addresses the recipient. And, okay, let's walk through. How do we define or how do we uncover what boxes are holding you back? Why are you staying in them? What fears can we uncover and how do we dismantle those and make baby steps towards exiting those boxes that no longer serve. And an ancillary, a corollary is what boxes are we unintentionally putting others in that may not be serving them?
- [27:13]
A
Oh, that's an interesting way to look at it. Yeah. That I hadn't considered. What are we putting on other people? Judgments. Yeah, maybe. And restricting our beliefs with them or giving them latitude to be more than what we have assigned. Okay, interesting. Well, you know, I didn't intend this. I. I love doing what I do today as a. As a host on podcasts. I meet interesting people all over the world, and it brings me back in many ways to my own life. And talking about pivoting, you mentioned you're now where you are, and 10 years ago, you felt this way. I went through a major pivot at age 45, which is similar, and not a midlife crisis. I went through that at 40, and then I bought a pickup truck for some reason, and then that went away. Then I bought a Maserati, which suited me more, and that was my fun car. And that was a celebration of my success. When I. When I made over seven figures in a year, that, to me, was my validation. So I went and bought a Maserati, and then two years later, I went through the fight of my life, which is called the divorce. And that was a pivot point. And when all the dust settled, I mean, I know you went through one of those yourself, and I'm not picking a scab. It's just part of life. We're just part of the American population, especially from our educational backgrounds. It's. It's quite common to have one of those in the. On the balance sheet. All right. It's there. It's just part. Okay. It's all right. I'm in the club. It's not exclusive. It's right. It's for all. I reevaluated where I was going, and I had worked my butt off 90 hours a week, easily on building my business. And then it all evaporated because the lawyers took so much money. And the. I think they're the biggest thieves in the world. Family lawyers. They live off pain and misery. We're talking about that a little bit before we began. There are people that enjoy seeing other people suffer, and I think they're part of that group. Family lawyers. I'm not about criminal. That's a different discussion. They. They live into that, and then they profit and say, oh, well, wasn't so bad, was it? No, your pockets are fat. But my evaluations changed. Did you change what was important and what wasn't after going through this catharsis of what you went through 10 years ago, which was then the impetus for writing your book.
- [29:51]
B
Yes. Yeah. It changed in. During my divorce, and then it changed again. They continually evolve, but, yes, okay, absolutely, they changed. And now, you know, I. I spent so much of my life doing and. And striving.
- [30:07]
A
Executing.
- [30:08]
B
Yes. And I'm at a point in my life where I'm like, I'm really focusing on being, which is huge shift for me. I mean, I was like the energizer Bunny, and it was always like, what's next? What's next? I would finish one thing, and I wouldn't even. I barely pause, and it's like, what's next? And, you know, I love this word. Enough. You know, I have enough. I am enough. You know, and I'm so. I feel like I'm going through another metamorphosis, and it's just being so comfortable just being. I don't have to produce every day. And. Because I felt like that was how I. How I felt like I was valued, and I felt like I didn't have value if I wasn't producing. And I'm. I'm learning. I'm still on this journey, but that. That. No, I'm enough. And I don't. It's okay. I don't need to produce, you know, and just embrace being. You know, we're here for such a short period of time that becomes big time, incredibly apparent as you get older.
- [31:12]
A
Yes.
- [31:13]
B
And nothing is guaranteed. And so I am so. I mean, I literally, I. I wake up every morning and the. The first two words out of my mouth out loud. I live alone, but. Well, I live with my two dogs, but I just say thank you. Like, thank you for this day. And I'm so. I'm truly grateful to be here. And I wasn't like that 10 years ago. You know, I took it for granted. And I don't. I don't. And I don't know if that's just because of what I've been through, but also through the. As you get older, you just. You are just so. You realize how lucky we are. So, yeah, my values have changed immensely.
- [31:48]
A
Well, and it's there. I. I look at these different points in time because, personally, why I do now what I do. I sit in front of a microphone and run podcasts, and I do a lot of my work remotely, had nothing to do with COVID or might have because of the vaccination, caused the health issue that I'M going to disclose. Two years ago, I had a heart attack and that changed everything. It was grounding, it was eye opening. And it. We're here, we're finite. In 200 years, no one's going to remember who we were. Unless you're Donald J. Trump or, or the equivalent thereof. Without that title, that type of impact and legacy, we, you know, one generation, two generations might be able to refer to mom or Grandma Betsy, but after that, we're in the ground. Maybe have a tombstone to celebrate our. We're, oh, a distant memory. And it's live now, live now, do what you got to do now. And that health snapshot woke me up personally. Did have you had something like that? That was a major pivot, a major impact where. Open your eyes and. Or was it a slow progression to where you are now? You mentioned you're 56. There are different stages in life.
- [33:10]
B
Yeah, I think it was just for me. It was. And I've been very blessed. Like, I haven't had a health scare. My family lives forever. You know, we don't have unexpected deaths, which is very nice, but, but I think it's been so, it's been slower for me, but I mean, classmates, like, I'm, I'm back in my hometown and there's, you know, classmates on a somewhat regular basis. Classmates, meaning the people I grew up with and, and went to grade school, middle school and high school with that die.
- [33:41]
A
Yeah.
- [33:42]
B
And they're not gonna get unhealthy.
- [33:44]
A
It's gonna get worse.
- [33:45]
B
Yeah. Right. And so it's like I'm. And then I've had, you know, oh my gosh, I can't count the number of agents and staff that have lost, or have they've either lost a sibling at a quite young age or a child or they are going through a life threatening condition. So, I mean, I feel like I'm, for some reason I've been insulated personally by it, but it is all around me and it gets closer and closer. So I think that's what's really made me understand how, how, how blessed we are to be here every day and how, how quick. And then I've also, you know, read some books where, when you, when you put, when you put us. And I've, I've traveled the world, but even, even that's so small compared to the universe. And so we're just such a, we're just such a small, you know, infinitesimal piece of this whole puzzle. It, it humbles you and makes you, I think, grateful.
- [34:52]
A
It does what is, what is Betsy's routine? You've now gotten to a point. And I find most successful people, albeit men, women or other. I got to be careful because there's wokeness in America. How. What is your routine in order to stay on. On the track? Because I, I find that that's necessary a lot of people.
- [35:15]
B
So I, I'm really into track. I have daily tracker, so I track my habits.
- [35:21]
A
Okay.
- [35:21]
B
And so I'm always working on some incorporating new habits. And once the habit becomes ingrained, then I can roll it off my tracker. But, but I. Daily practices include. For me to keep me grounded and centered it. Meditation. Yoga. Not as much. I love yoga. I wish I did it daily. I don't do it daily, but I do it spending time in nature every day. Spending time with my dogs every day.
- [35:49]
A
Where are you in Florida, by the way? Because you mentioned nature.
- [35:52]
B
Gaines. I mean Gainesville. North central Gainesville.
- [35:55]
A
Okay. All right.
- [36:00]
B
So one of the things I track, because sadly it's not something that's. That comes naturally for me is intentionally creating joy in my life every day.
- [36:11]
A
All right.
- [36:12]
B
Yeah. And then I do a cold plunge every day.
- [36:18]
A
Oh my gosh, you've embraced that. I like a hot shower.
- [36:21]
B
I try to do. So one of the things I track is I, I make myself do something either new or uncomfortable every day because I feel like that just continually just. It makes me feel alive.
- [36:34]
A
Okay. Peels the onion. What? Feels the onion.
- [36:38]
B
Yeah. And so, so if I haven't done something new or something that's made me uncomfortable, the cold plunge definitely does. So, like, I know I'll have done it every day. And you do start to oddly like, I hate cold. I get cold very easily. My hands and fingers get cold very easily. But it, it didn't take me long to start craving it, which is surprising because I would have thought I would have. My body would have resisted it for a long time. But you really start to thrive in what it does for you, so I highly recommend it and what I did to ease into that. And before I invested in a cold plunge, I made myself take an ice cold shower every morning for six months. Because I said I don't want to invest in a cold plunge. If it's going to be a fly by night, love it for a month and then not use it.
- [37:27]
A
Oh, so you have a tub, an.
- [37:29]
B
Actual tube on my deck. Okay.
- [37:32]
A
Okay. Yeah.
- [37:33]
B
It's like a, It's. It looks. Most people think it's a hot tub, but it's a cold plunge and it, I Have it set at 50 degrees. And so, yeah, so I did it. I did the cold, ice cold shower for six months and I loved it. And so then I said, okay, now I can commit to buying the cold plunge. And so I now did the cold plunge so that I. I exercise every day.
- [37:56]
A
It's either walking the dog or walking the dogs.
- [38:00]
B
I have a treadmill. I have a gym in my garage, which I did when during COVID And I love it. You know, I'm a. More of a. I. I like to exercise. I'm not a group exercise person, so I like to. On my own. So those are the kind of the habits that I have outside of work.
- [38:17]
A
So the meditation every morning.
- [38:20]
B
Oh, and at night.
- [38:21]
A
Oh, all right, check, check. I get it. I do five minutes in the morning, five minutes before I sleep, and I run through a gratitude list. And especially at. Oh, okay, interesting. Okay. So any spiritual component to your success. So if you're comfortable sharing that.
- [38:41]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. I feel like that's actually a segment of my life that I'd like to enhance. I grew up Catholic, raised my children Methodist. I read incessantly about spirituality, non religious spirituality, which, Which I love. But I. I do feel like I enjoyed, even though I've never believed and embodied everything a certain religion preaches. I've enjoyed the rituals like I love. I love Catholic hymns. I love being a part of a larger community. I love service. I love things that the. The church institution and that kind of structure provides. And it was wonderful with the kids when I, Because I raised them as a single mom, to have that sense of community right when I didn't have the traditional family. And I do feel like that's a piece that's missing in my life right now. And I've been. I've been church shopping. I just haven't felt something that feels totally me yet.
- [39:51]
A
Well, you're in Florida. You could always go over to Scientology.
- [39:54]
B
Yeah, that's not one that's on the list. I've read a lot about it. Just because it. I'm. I'm very curious about everything. And so. And we have. I have some remote family members that are in it and just curious about it. But no, that's not one that.
- [40:13]
A
I read seven books on the topic. I was curious as well. I thought, okay, there's so much criticism growing up in la, and I know a lot of the celebrities are in it. Tom Cruise and, yeah, let's see, John Revolt, Travolta. Yeah, etc. And I thought, okay, I need to make my own decision before I judge something. And I educate myself. So I read seven books on the topic. Started with the Dianetics book. And. And I found, well, L. Ron Hubbard was known to quote, if you want to get rich in America, start a religion. So he did.
- [40:47]
B
Right.
- [40:48]
A
And it finally got stamped as a religion. And it does practice. It is a religion. Religion is business, and the benefit is the sense of community and all that. But they wrap their own dogma and it's tax free. That's why they want that stat. That's what they did. It made. They were about ready to go under. And then all of a sudden, the tax went away.
- [41:14]
B
Yeah.
- [41:14]
A
And that's theirs. That's interesting. So that you've ticked the boxes. And there's a common denominator, I've noticed, with people who are productive and authors who contribute, and it's a memorialization of their lives. In many cases of writing a book of leaving that legacy and meditation and. Or prayer. You didn't mention prayer. You said meditation. And. And now you're searching. It sounds like you're always searching for something new to enhance your life. There's the physical element where you're exercising daily. And you. You said you're a tracker. And all of these elements add up to who Betsy is and who. And you share that common denominator with so many of the guests. I don't have people that watch Netflix successively on this show.
- [42:10]
B
And yeah, I don't have tv.
- [42:14]
A
You don't have a tv?
- [42:16]
B
I have a TV that hasn't been turned on in several years. I don't buy cable. I don't. I. I feel like. And this is just me. But okay, when. When I'm staring at a screen, I feel like I'm watching someone else live their life and I'm not living mine. And again, we're. We're here on. We're here for such a short period of time.
- [42:37]
A
Indeed.
- [42:38]
B
Why am I tr. I mean, why am I trading my most valuable asset for that? And that's just not. That's not a trade I'm willing to make.
- [42:47]
A
So your trade for that or your replacement is reading is books.
- [42:51]
B
I read. I read incessantly. When you said that the guy read a book a day, I'm like, oh, that sounds like me.
- [42:56]
A
You read a book a day.
- [42:58]
B
I read a couple books a week.
- [43:00]
A
Wow. And in what topics?
- [43:03]
B
I read predominantly. I mean, almost exclusively. It's all non fiction. So it's either memoir, business, spirituality, self help. That's it. Yeah.
- [43:23]
A
Top five books.
- [43:25]
B
Oh, Gosh, I have a book club. I got a library at work. I've got a library here. I can't. Five books is Atomic Habits.
- [43:34]
A
Did you read Atomic Habits by James Clear?
- [43:36]
B
Yeah, yeah, I've read all the. All the main business books. Yeah.
- [43:42]
A
Okay.
- [43:43]
B
But no, I can't. I can't say I have a favorite. I mean, I just. I. I just. I get something from most books, you know.
- [43:50]
A
Okay. All right. So there isn't a particular all. Okay. Well, I. I read about a book a week. I'm not as aggressive as you, and I do occasionally watch Netflix because I like to check out. It's the only other I. I had a background. I was on the pro karate circuit in the 20s when I was going through college. And that was a way I made. Competed on weekends. And I talked about the. Only when I'm fully able to check out and not worry about whatever drama is going on in my head or thoughts or concerns is when I was in the ring. It was the only time that I was 1000% using batting averages, 1000% focused, because my block was going to get knocked off if I wasn't right there. Nothing entered that space for that period of time when I was in the ring, that three minutes was focused.
- [44:45]
B
Yeah.
- [44:46]
A
Nothing else mattered. And I think it was one of. It was, for me, one of the most gratifying periods of my life. I competed for three years, loved it because I was so focused. As much as I can with meditation, which is daily practice. I do my best, but still other thoughts invade. I haven't gotten to that point. Maybe I need to be Indian or something and sit in a lotus and not bathe. And I'm sitting there and then I'll maybe able to focus because I'll be so overwhelmed with my body odor. I don't know. But that period of time was so valuable where I was 100% focused. And this. And watching a movie in some cases brings me there as well.
- [45:26]
B
Yeah.
- [45:27]
A
What brings you to that state? We all have.
- [45:33]
B
Yeah. Like, when you're in total flow. So being in nature, running, I'm a big runner. And I love art. I don't know if you can see I've got art, but, I mean, I love art.
- [45:49]
A
I see something on the wall. I don't know if that was just like a slop of paint or. Yeah, it's like, oh, there we go.
- [45:55]
B
All my. Those are. Those are a setup.
- [45:57]
A
Oh, wow. Okay.
- [45:58]
B
Yeah. But I mean, I do, like.
- [46:00]
A
And the teddy bear.
- [46:01]
B
I do watercolor. I draw. I do Mixed media. I mean, I'm not good, but I love it. It's very like, like you said, you can totally, you know, disappear and be totally ingrained in what you're doing. And so that for me is a creative outlet that I just so love and get so much out of. Enjoy.
- [46:25]
A
Well, that's fantastic. And what have you learned as an employer that makes your real estate agency successful? How do you have you employed or tactics or, you know, implemented tactics? Because the biggest issue with an employer, and I know this myself, running a couple companies over turnover of employees is the big.
- [46:54]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [46:55]
A
Line item. How able to work with that?
- [46:58]
B
Well, I think, you know, you learn that. I hope you. I hope people learn that people don't leave companies. They leave their manager.
- [47:11]
A
Okay.
- [47:12]
B
And so I, you know, I take it, and I think rightly so, very personally when someone leaves because I have failed. And I think at the end of the day, everyone wants to just feel like they are seen and they are heard. And so if they know that and feel that, they most likely will not leave. And so usually when someone's leaving, I feel like I have failed in creating a culture where they feel seen or they feel heard.
- [47:47]
A
Most people leave their manager. And you don't think it has to do with pay or anything or does that.
- [47:54]
B
Oh, study in real estate. Studies have shown time and again people do not leave for higher splits. They don't. They leave because they don't feel valued. They don't feel like they mean anything to the bigger picture. They don't feel a part of something greater. They'll leave for culture. They'll leave because they don't feel like they're being treated well. They don't see a path for their growth, but they rarely leave for money.
- [48:24]
A
Okay. I would never would have thought that that's okay. Well, maybe in your industry and I, I know personally, I have a. I have a great personal assistant in the Philippines and she disappeared two and a half weeks ago. No notice, no nothing, just disappeared. Doesn't answer emails, doesn't respond to her phone, just disappeared. I have no idea what happened. She essentially quit, but I have no explanation. I have no idea. Just disappeared. Had a lot of personal information, including credit, one of my key credit cards. So I had to go through change. I don't know what happened. Strange. Now her behavior had changed a little bit, but who knows? Could have been a personal situation change. And I'm wondering, like, what happened? Was it me? And based on what you said, I think, well, maybe I need to look at Myself, I wasn't doing something about appreciating her, but I thought she was fantastic and told her every week. But more we do.
- [49:26]
B
I'm really big on exit interviews.
- [49:28]
A
Yeah. I don't even know. I wasn't able to do that.
- [49:31]
B
Right. Because she's disappeared. Yeah. That's the problem with remote workers.
- [49:37]
A
Thanks for that. Oh, my God. Just, just. This has never happened. I've used Philippine workers for over 15 years now.
- [49:47]
B
Yeah.
- [49:48]
A
And it was a great solution. And things happen. Different culture. But I've never had anybody just totally disappear. People quit or send me a text, say, I'm quitting. All right. With no notice or with decent notice. Most art. But just to disappear was the strangest thing in the world.
- [50:03]
B
But I hope she. I mean, my first thought is, is she okay? I hope she's okay. He or she is okay.
- [50:07]
A
Yeah. I don't know. You just happened to do that. But your point is very valid. I love the pause and pivot. Take a pause, evaluate. Is that what that means?
- [50:20]
B
Well, so I use it. So when I. It came to that when I was facing my divorce and my layoff, but I also use it. So I think a lot of people are held back for fear of failure. And I decided long ago that. That I'm not going to let that stop me. And so I just wrote fear or failure out of my life. So I don't believe failure to me is just another box. It's a box that if we choose, we can label certain outcomes as failure. Right. It's a choice.
- [51:03]
A
Sure.
- [51:03]
B
So I have chosen that. That's not. That's not a choice I'm making. So worst case scenario, the outcome is not what I had hoped. So I have to pause and pivot. And I have done that countless times before when I have not wanted to. And I'm still standing. And I've learned something. You learn so much. You know, you always learn something from any experience. You learn something that you take with you and makes you better for the rest of this journey. So how could we even begin to think that that's failure? So that's how I look at pause and pause and pivot.
- [51:42]
A
Okay, well, great. Betsy, where can they get in touch with your book and. And invest in your course so they can break through the.
- [51:49]
B
So my book is available on all the online retailers. It's also on my website, which is my name, Betsy Papin Dot com. My course is on the website. A free toolkit is on my website. And then I'm on all the social channels with my name, which is At Betsy Papin.
- [52:06]
A
At Betsy Papin. Well, and on LinkedIn, where I need to connect with you there. Okay, wonderful. Well, Betsy, thank you, Mitch.
- [52:14]
B
It was a pleasure.
- [52:15]
A
All right, well, you have a good day. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in to the Amazing Authorities podcast. If today's episode inspired you, take a moment to subscribe, rate and leave a review. It helps more experts like you rise to the top for behind the scenes access and free resources to boost your authority. Head to MitchCarson.com until next time, stay amazing.