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The Amazing Authorities Podcast
From Book to Big Stages: How Adam Kingl Turns Ideas into Global Revenue EPISODE DESCRIPTION:
00:29:32
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- [00:02]
A
Welcome to the Amazing Authorities podcast, where game changers, visionaries and category leaders share how they built their brands, platforms and global influence. Your host is Mitch Carson, international speaker, media strategist, and creator of the Instant Authority system. If you're ready to learn from those who've done it and want to become the go to expert in your space, you're in the right place.
- [00:31]
B
Adam Kingle is our prestigious authority today, hailing from the UK via United States. Now, he has lived much of his life in the United Kingdom, but he has an accent like mine because he grew up there. He can't help it. He couldn't shake it. He tried his best, but he's here today with us. Adam, welcome to the show.
- [00:53]
C
It's very much for having me appreciate it.
- [00:56]
B
Yeah. And I also appreciate the acknowledgment of a smile. You know, my, my attempt at humor sometimes goes over well. And at sir, surely at 11pm for you and, and 5am for me, we're on track. We're doing what we do out of passion. And one of the things I admire about many, most of my guests, they're published authors. Let's pull out. You're not just a single book author. And I, and I talk about the keys and roadmaps to success at different times. And one thing is completing and getting a bachelor's degree, then a master's and a doctorate for certain people. And I know we'll get into your professorship in a minute, but when someone writes a book, that's the next level. But you haven't just written one book, you've written two books. And I would imagine there might be even a third because you're a multi book author. So let's, let's start with book one, Adam.
- [01:55]
C
Book one. Right. Well, yeah, it is absolutely their labors of love. And I think there's an academic I really respect, a colleague who said the reason I actually finally will write a book is because if I see something happening in the world and I'm curious enough about it to get the answer, and a little desktop research won't give me the answer, I'll do the research and write the book. And so it really is a product of supreme curiosity, you know, beyond our daily research or teaching. And book one was answering the question, why is it that young people in the workforce seem so stubborn, obstreperous and disloyal? That's my, my pessimistic perspective. But actually once I started doing the research, discovered of course, that generations are only the product of the environment in which they were raised 100%. And if we understand that context, then we can understand how better to engage them, retain them, manage them, collaborate with them. So that became my first book, which is called Next Generation Leadership and it was published by HarperCollins. And advice to authors.
- [03:11]
B
Okay, here we go.
- [03:11]
C
Never, never have a book published in March of 2020.
- [03:16]
B
Oh my gosh. Oh my God.
- [03:19]
C
Extra hard to achieve any kind of cut through at that time.
- [03:24]
B
Well, you know, it's interesting you bring that up. You don't, you don't plan for these things. I came out with my published book the silent salesman in 2008 and I was in the. Was just. It took two years because I went through. I was published by John Wiley and Sons. A sister or not a sister, but a competitor to Harper Collins, but a big one out of, out of New Jersey. I think they're out of Hoboken or something. I had just launched full throttle into my divorce, so I couldn't devote the time and you couldn't because. Because the circumstances in life and it's just, it's like oh my God, you work so hard to launch this baby. And then how did you. All right, hard question. How did you manage to be successful with that book or did it serve to your advantage to where people were reading more because they were confined?
- [04:19]
C
Would that could be. But I think, I think that once that once they actually found out about the book and got it into their hot little hands, then I hope and imagine that they did actually have a little bit of time to read it. But my biggest challenge was achieving cut through in the media when no one was interested in what was the latest book out there that didn't have to do with, you know, mental health. Resilience, pandemics, depression, redemption. Exactly. So. So, so it was an act. So promoting the book was an act of persistence really. And it load slow drip drip until the. Until people would finally kind of get managed to get their head up and, and think about other things. So really there the. I started talking about it and teaching the topic a heck of a lot more. About a year later that then it started to develop momentum. Unlike you know, typically where it's all kind of a big rub fashion of. Of a book launch. This has really kind of just been a steady drip over five years.
- [05:22]
B
And what did you. How did you market it? Let's get into some of the weeds of it because that's, you know, I, I believe it.
- [05:30]
C
Yeah.
- [05:31]
B
Thomas Edison said it's 1% inspiration 99 perspiration and to write a book as hard as it is. And I know it's not a simple process, it's much easier today with AI tools, etc, but back before all that came around, you had to put in the hard yards and then it's, it's a feeling of oh, I've arrived. Oh no, the real work begins now. Is the marketing.
- [05:58]
C
Yeah, yeah. I think particularly, I think a lot of first time authors or aspiring authors don't realize that, you know, the, the publisher does not necessarily go all out to help promote your. They don't do jack on you. That's right. Yes. So, so a bit, so really it was, you know, literally contacting journalists, you know, newspapers, magazines, TV programs, you know, going crazy on LinkedIn, including excerpts and summaries and trying to gain, gain a little bit of, of access that way. It was interesting. My publisher said, look, we'll create a website for your, for your book. I thought, okay, okay, okay. So they're gonna, they're gonna put in a little effort and money to build a website for the book. Fine, no problem with that. Of course the question is how and why would people be interested in going to the website in the first place? How do you get people aware of the website to then be aware of the book? So it still was on me. The onus was on you people to the website. Yes. So it was interesting that they, that's where they kind of chose to put their, their money was build the website but not necessarily get people to the website. So that was still on me. So you really do become a little one man band of PR, marketing, etc. And there's no secret behind it, as you said, other than, than perspiration. And you know, and luckily from, from you know, decades working in academia where journalists would reach out to me over time, I did have a little black book with, with some journalists in it and the business press to which I could, I could leverage. Even so, you know, there's a good amount of time sweat and, and persistence.
- [07:44]
B
I feel your pain, buddy. I've written several books myself in it. The first time was an eye opener. Then you learn a little bit from your battle wounds. But it's. So you. Let me repeat that if I may. LinkedIn. You did shorts or excerpts. Did you embrace YouTube at all?
- [08:02]
C
I did. Platforms.
- [08:03]
B
Did you use.
- [08:05]
C
Yeah, I did some videos on YouTube and then obviously also posted all those videos on my website. So then I would post a little summary to invite people on LinkedIn to watch the YouTube video, but also said look, and if you'd like to read more about my media in the book. Here's my website. So I kept trying to get people ultimately to the website where they would find out more about the, about the book and then buy the book.
- [08:32]
B
Okay. Did you do a lot of guesting on podcasts during that time?
- [08:37]
C
No, because podcasts weren't quite so much in. I think the zeitgeist. I think the, the. It was really, as the pandemic progressed, that podcast sort of took off as, as another kind of form of, you know, of, of consumption.
- [08:54]
B
Right.
- [08:55]
C
Of media consumption. So, so it was a little bit early for, for that where, where it wouldn't necessarily have immediately crossed my mind over time. Yes. So this is where the drip, drip help. Because I didn't give up on it. The podcast really started about 20, 22 and, and there. And I'm still doing it, like, case in point. Right.
- [09:15]
B
Oh, your own podcast. Oh, I, I was refer. Oh, okay.
- [09:19]
C
No, no, being a guest.
- [09:20]
B
Yes, Guesting on podcast. Okay, yeah, all right, got it. And, and tell me about. Because I'm a, I work as a book publicist, as I mentioned, and you're, you obviously did. A lot of. Most people are clueless, but you knew because of your academia background and we'll, we'll dig into that. But who did you get covered by with your book? Who was interested in reviewing you or interviewing you?
- [09:46]
C
Yeah, it was, it was business press and primarily local, you know, UK and European business press, you know, European Business Review and then some other. I obviously contacted the press and communications departments and the business school tools with which I work and ask them, you know, who, who, who should know about this. And they would put me in touch with journalists and sometimes those articles then wind up in Forbes, Fortune, etc, which, that means bravo and say, oh, I, you know, I have an article in Forbes, Fortune, etc, even if it's a secondary posting. Well, it does matter, right?
- [10:24]
B
Yeah, well, it does be. I mean, it does, it does help a lot. I was, I can claim I was in Forbes because I was running events. One of my attendees at one of my events in Dubai, she talked about her experience. My name was mentioned. So was I technically covered in Forbes? Yes, it was featuring me. She was featured. Yet she mentioned me because I'm the one that brought her to my event in Dubai.
- [10:51]
C
Right.
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B
And that's. And it's still great credibility.
- [10:55]
C
Yeah, no, absolutely, yes. And of course, I think the other, the other big area of publicity for the book is. Are just doing keynote speeches at conferences, whether they're company Conferences or external, like industry or function conferences. Because then all of a sudden you have an audience that's completely just engrossed in your idea for 20 minutes, 30 minutes, 45 minutes, and either two things happen. Either enough of them are intrigued or that a number of them buy the book. Or on those occasions when I was particularly clever, convince the conference organizers ahead of time to say, sure, I'll come and speak at your event. And by the way, could you buy a copy of the book for everyone and put that in their goody bag?
- [11:40]
B
Bag, yeah. Okay. Well, that's a great angle. And then some people may want a second if you have it stacked in the back of the room. So you've worked as a keynote speaker also. So the book led to keynote gigs because it was a fresh topic or how did that. What was the.
- [11:56]
C
Yeah, exactly. I mean, I knew that this was of a lot of interest in, in, in corporate life. The idea of, you know, we, we don't seem to have loyalty, particularly among the youngest generations that we used to. We think we. Tell me about it, you know, winning the war for talent. So I knew I would probably be able to do. To get speeches. Luckily, I'd already belonged to a number of speaking agencies and now the book gave me the credibility to then talk about that topic and agents booking me on those topics. And really, from. What is the commercial argument for writing particularly your first book? For me, I always knew that the speeches would actually probably earn me more money than the book. But you wouldn't necessarily get the speeches without the book.
- [12:48]
B
Well, I like. I'm going to write that down because that's a valuable point. You just mentioned their commercial argument and the reason, the justification essentially of why you write a book. How do you monetize it? But I have not heard that term commercial argument book. I'm taking that note and that I will revisit that later. Of course, I have the recording.
- [13:10]
C
Yeah, this is.
- [13:11]
B
That is valuable. May I ask if you're willing to disclose that what would, what was. What were your fees? Because one of the. Because I'd love to attach. Hey, the reason you want to publish is this. So for people that are new, what. What was the payoff for you? One is recognition. You've got all these media logos behind you. You're a professor that, I mean, and you're, you're covered in great publications. And then you get booked as a keynote speaker. So then you were able to sell books because of the venues and the companies that hired you. Would you mind sharing what was Your range of. I know nobody has a fixed rate, but what was the range of being compensated? I don't know. The London market.
- [13:53]
C
Well, yeah, which is lower I believe on average than the US market. I think on average a speech in the UK would, would probably, you know, give someone fees of probably depending on the person. Of course, you know, between, I would say £1,500, say to do a speech up to £5,000.
- [14:15]
B
Okay.
- [14:16]
C
For, for, for a first time speaker and of course your fees grow the more you do it and you become known. But, but the reason I say it also depends is if you already are, let's say you already have a degree of fame because let's say you're a, you're a known athlete or something like that.
- [14:31]
B
Sure.
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C
Then of course even if you're doing a speech for the first time, the fees are in a different category.
- [14:36]
B
Well, you know it's. And, and I was, I traveled the globe speaking. I've spoken on stages in 63 countries but I was more of a selling speaker system speaker. I've done keynotes and then I, I attended an event with the Professional Speakers association of Singapore. The average keynote person that was working a professional, someone that made 200k a year on an ongoing basis was getting about 7,000 sing dollars. Sing dollars would equate to about 4, 500 depending on the.
- [15:09]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [15:11]
B
And this is a pro, this is a person that is an author, has been in the media, has been out there, has got the testimonials, a real pro. So the idea that oh, I get 25000 a speech buddy, unless you're a New York Times best selling author, that's not realistic.
- [15:28]
C
Yeah, no, that's not, that's not by any means the average. Yeah, so, so, so that's two date your experience and what I've just shared here, two data points that are in the, in the same range. So. Yes.
- [15:38]
B
Yeah. And the U.S. of course is, has higher rates but again the people that command those types of fees or I don't work unless I get this amount of money. Yeah, you have to have that, that badge says New York Times best selling author. That's the additional boost. Now what did you find? Was that achievable or was that something that was not it?
- [16:06]
C
Well, well the, the range I gave, that I mentioned were that that range was achievable. But again it's because of the book.
- [16:13]
B
Right.
- [16:13]
C
I couldn't necessarily have just commanded those kinds of fees just by saying look, I, I have a topic and I've done some research on it. Even that isn't as credible as saying, oh, and by the way, I have a book and it's been major difference. Yeah, Big, big difference. So, so I, you know, and, and we know, on average, you know, I imagine your listeners are aware that the, the cliche buck a book is not unrealistic. Right? On, on average authors might achieve literally that their royalties are about a buck.
- [16:49]
B
A buck a book when you are with a publisher. When.
- [16:52]
C
Yes, yes, the publisher. That's right.
- [16:54]
B
Tell me why you chose to go that route versus indie.
- [17:00]
C
Knew less about the indie route and didn't necessarily think I would have the, I didn't have the pre knowledge.
- [17:10]
B
And.
- [17:10]
C
Maybe I didn't have the hustle given the demands that I had on an ongoing basis for teaching, program directing and ongoing research. So I thought look, if someone could help me, you know, do some, some of this heavy lifting that I don't understand, then so to, to me that was, that was worth it.
- [17:29]
B
I went published my first, well, not my first book, but my first big effort was with John Wiley and Sons and they did the editing and they, they provided distribution, but zero marketing. Zero.
- [17:42]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [17:44]
B
And, and I got lucky because it went into the German market as well. Got translated into German and that.
- [17:50]
C
Oh yeah, yeah.
- [17:51]
B
Oh, have you, you approached that? I would suggest it because it is a huge market and they read books there.
- [17:59]
C
Well, not, not German. My second book market success was published by Kogan Page two years ago. Oh. They also had the right, they had the right to sell translation rights obviously, of which I would get royalties. And they managed to sell the translation rights for Spanish and Portuguese.
- [18:18]
B
Oh, nice.
- [18:19]
C
Yeah. Which is, and Spanish is a huge, huge, huge market. And the Portuguese, you would think. Oh well, you know, not, not sure about that. However, almost immediately after they sold the Portuguese rights, I got a speaking gig in Porto off the back of, you know, knowing that this would kind of be for the launch of the Portuguese translation of the book. So, so absolutely there again, you know, I wouldn't be able to go around and sell translation rights. I, I don't have that network. So that was another reason why even for Book two, I thought, you know, it, it would, for me, it would be worthwhile to work with a publisher versus trying to self publish once you add all those additional opportunities that you'd be seeking.
- [19:06]
B
No, it makes a lot of sense because yes, I, I believe publishers have their place and the credential and prestige of being with a mainstream publisher is a lot different than, you know. Yeah, I'VE got a KDP book.
- [19:22]
C
Yeah, it's. Yeah, yeah, that's right. And to their credit, Kogan Page was very different. What I felt with Harper Collins, I was a bit of at the time, I was a bit of a very small fish in a very big pond, you know, with them. I knew that their attentions were, you know, usually elsewhere. Kogan Page, tremendous publisher, particularly in business press, a little bit smaller but international recognition, offices all over the world. You know they, to their credit they, they invested their own money in some. A book PR company for the first six months, I believe of the book and, and that, you know, led to all the same things that I've, that I've discussed before. And I didn't have to do quite all, you know, all the work myself to make those, those PR opportunities happen.
- [20:07]
B
Well, that's nice. And you've been featured in many, many places. Have you also done television experiences?
- [20:15]
C
Yeah, a little bit. I did. Funny, I was working a lot in Tokyo with clients and so there. Someone managed to contact the local Tokyo media and I talked to, I was on a news article, news cast for Tokyo Mick TV when I was in Dubai I did, I was interviewed live on radio for Dubai I. Which is a talk.
- [20:38]
B
I'm familiar with them. Yes, yes.
- [20:41]
C
And, and actually I was supposed to be on BBC1 here for my last book when it was Creative World Creativity Week. And then the producer of the radio show was sick that week and so, and so then they just hunted and was like, well we'll just show some pre recorded content for that weekly episode. And they never, they never looped back around to it which was a huge.
- [21:04]
B
Let's see your books. Show them.
- [21:06]
C
Yeah, absolutely. So here's we were talking about next generation leadership. Okay, so there it is. Subtitle how to ensure young talent will thrive with your organization.
- [21:15]
B
That's a huge topic.
- [21:17]
C
Huge.
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B
My God, we could talk all episode about that. How do you keep these kids out of their phones and focused on.
- [21:25]
C
Yes. And like I said, even though this came out five years ago, I probably talk about this topic more than any other even to this day. This book, sparking Success Subtitle why Every Leader needs to develop a Creative Mindset is about how business leaders can enhance a creative capacity in themselves and in their teams. Every company, I've never met a company that says we don't need more innovation and creativity around here.
- [21:52]
B
Right.
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C
And they think you, you have, therefore you have to hire creative people. Well, the truth of the matter is everyone is inherently creative whether they actually practice it or not is a function of leadership. And so what I did for this one was quite interesting. I interviewed and observed leaders in creative arts organizations because creativity is their lifeblood. They have to look live creativity, innovation every day. So I went and I talked to Broadway producers and directors and TV screenwriters and musicians. I talked to the managing director of Carnegie Hall, Disney Imagineers, et cetera. And I was trying to identify habits that they practiced that you could extrapolate and use in any industry and in any function ways in which they talked and led their people that was not idiosyncratic to creative arts organizations. And that became the nub of the book, which I'm very proud of. And this really was a labor of love and I was passionate about that. This one in particular, I think is noteworthy because I still to this day do not believe there's a bigger gap between a reality and an aspiration in corporate life today than when you look at innovation where CEOs say it's a top three priority. In fact, BCG did a study just a few years ago where they asked CEOs all over the world, what are your top three priorities? 80% or 79% included some variety of creativity or innovation. Top, top three priority. Meanwhile, McKinsey does a study not asking CEOs, but the rank and file of companies all over the world, how good is your organization at creativity? And 94% essentially said, we're crap at it.
- [23:43]
B
Wow.
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C
So again, so is there a bigger gap between a leadership, a leader's aspiration, and the reality on the ground? And that's also why I thought, look, I think there's a real need for.
- [23:53]
B
This book and that workbooks and seminars and workshops and. Wow.
- [23:59]
C
Absolutely. Yeah, that's right. And in that book, too, at the end of every chapter, I have a very practical, like one thing you can do on Monday morning based on what we just learned, you know, in this chapter, because you're right, it lends itself to highly practical. Go away and practice this. Try this, and if it doesn't work, go to the next chapter and try that one. And then, of course, it's a. It's a key part of my teaching and my corporate workshops, etc. Yeah, absolutely.
- [24:25]
B
No, I. I have to ask the question. And I. And I might add another wrinkle to your forehead, even if you have one. I can't see any, but. But it might cause one. Is there a third book in Adam?
- [24:37]
C
There is. There is. I'm glad there is. It comes out in June, due out on June 9th. It's going to be published. And what's today? Monday. Yesterday I finished the first draft.
- [24:50]
B
Wow, good for you.
- [24:51]
C
And I'm a month ahead. It's not due, the first draft manuscript isn't due to the publisher until Halloween. And we're, we're talking about, we're talking right now on the 29th of September. So. And this one was different than that. I have a co author and it's about wellness and performance for executives through the lens of nutrition. And the reason is my just personal hobby is, you know, I don't collect many things in my life. I'm not a hoarder. But one thing I do collect are cookbooks. Oh. And one thing I learned is that, you know, there was really very, there's nothing out there in the cookbook market that is specifically geared to a business audience. You can get things on generic wellness or, you know, dealing with different needs, be it veganism or, you know, gluten free, etc. But not something like you're a business executive. So give me some recipes that will help me with improving my concentration throughout the day, sustained energy throughout the day, controlling and boosting my mood throughout the day, etc, etc, etc. So it's 100 recipes with all the scientific rigor I mentioned. I have a co author, he's in the chemistry department at Imperial College London. So we have all the, the, the proof points, if you will, behind why if you have these ingredients, they will help these characteristics. And now here are some recipes that include those ingredients to talk about something really practical, completely different, not pros at all. Like beyond those chapter introductions and the science reviews, then it's recipes. I loved writing recipes, having been a, an enthusiastic consumer of them for decades. Now I have a ridiculous collection of cookbooks in my hallway. I think I probably have enough book that could open a cookbook door if I really wanted to sell them. But of course I never would.
- [26:47]
B
I hear a restaurant coming soon. You want another headache? All right, there you go.
- [26:53]
C
Yeah. Talk about, talk about a commercial challenge. Yeah.
- [26:56]
B
Yeah. Okay. And, and, and, and getting employees, I mean that's always the bane of any corpse existence is finding the right mix of employees. Oh my gosh, it's, it's changed from over the years. All right, so that, that comes out. Well then we have to do a second interview at some point when you have the book launch.
- [27:17]
C
That'll be terrific. Yeah. Around the corner. Yeah, it's called, it's called Executive Eats the Cookbook for a Better Working Life.
- [27:24]
B
I love it. I love the topic and I love to eat every day, so I'll have to consume that book when, when it's available. Adam, you've been a great guest today. Where can they get in touch with you?
- [27:38]
C
My website, which is simply AdamKingle.com it's just my name, A D A M K I N G L. And that's.
- [27:45]
B
Where they can buy your books and.
- [27:47]
C
Absolutely. Okay.
- [27:48]
B
And it's available on Amazon, I presume, also if they're, of course, if they want, you know, because shipping is always a challenge. But there is an Amazon UK and which.
- [27:58]
C
Oh yeah, it's on every, it's on every Amazon, I believe that you, that you can think of, plus any other online retailer. And every now and then I even see them in a bookstore. Okay. Should, should anyone, should any of your listeners actually frequent an honest to God, physical bookshop?
- [28:13]
B
Oh my gosh. Is that, is that the thought or, or, you know, it's, I do my best to support those bookstores and I know I pay more than I would if I bought them through Amazon or some of the other carriers, but I, I like the opportunity to buy a book, sit down and maybe have a coffee and read and the whole experience. And I do my best to buy and support those independents if I can.
- [28:37]
C
I love, love a good independent bookstore. I'm still a passionate, passionate consumer. I, I really can't go to a new city and not try to frequent as many bookstores as I can.
- [28:47]
B
Well, you've been a great guest. Thank you so much for your time today and we'll have you back again when the new book is ready. We'll cook up an interview.
- [28:59]
C
Terrific. Thank you.
- [29:00]
B
All right, we'll see you next time.
- [29:02]
A
Adam, thanks for tuning in to the amazing Authorities podcast. If today's episode inspired you, take a moment to subscribe, rate and leave a review. It helps more experts like you rise to the top for behind the scenes access and free resources to boost your authority. Head to MitchCarson.com until next time, stay amazing.