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The Amazing Authorities Podcast
From Zero to 100,000 Downloads — Anika Jackson on Sustainable Podcast Growth, Monetization & the Power of Long-Game Strategy
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- [00:02]
A
Welcome to the Amazing Authorities podcast, where game changers, visionaries and category leaders share how they built their brands, platforms and global influence. Your host is Mitch Carson, international speaker, media strategist, and creator of the Instant Authority system. If you're ready to learn from those who've done it and want to become the go to expert in your space, you're in the right place.
- [00:31]
B
Annika Jackson is here today. She's an amazing authority. That's the name of the show, the Amazing Authorities Podcast. Annika is calling in. I'm currently in Las Vegas. My home is Thailand. Well, she's back home. She is in Redondo Beach, California. USC Professor Annika Jackson, welcome to the show.
- [00:53]
C
Thank you so much, Mitch. I've been really excited about this opportunity.
- [00:56]
B
I've been excited after you interviewing me last week. So it's time to reciprocate. I believe in scratching each other's lap virtually very soon today. But you are a top tier podcaster. So much so that usc, my alma mater, has invited you back I don't know how many years ago to teach it to at a graduate school level, which is a huge honor. So you must be great at what you do, verified through a third party and of course interviewed last week. How did you get into this growing space? Oof.
- [01:39]
C
Do you want the long or the short version?
- [01:41]
B
Let's go to the Annika version, whatever that is.
- [01:44]
C
Okay. So I have always said part of my mission is and value to the world is that I like to amplify people's voices. I like to share other people's stories, journeys, make them see that spark inside of them, whether it's through teaching my podcast or when I had my start, I threw events. So I was a club promoter through raves in Kansas City, parlayed that to Chicago to la, started working in magazines and other stuff that kind of exists, but not quite now. And it was always about bringing people together for community. I've lived a few places, but short tracking this. When I lived in Houston, I was invited to host a radio show. It was terrestrial digital and it also was Facebook Live. So we had sets. At first we were just in a radio room, but then eventually we had a space. We moved from set to set, had commercial breaks for the Facebook Live component. It was really fun. And I'd already been an emcee, I'd already chaired a lot of events and done a whole bunch of things in that space. So that was the natural progression. Now 2019 moved back to LA from Houston, kind of restarted the show, kind of fizzled out because it was harder to record from afar and get everybody's schedules coordinated. And I started a PR firm. My second firm had a couple clients who wanted me to podcast for them. So I created all of the things, all the assets, got all the guests edited while my team edited, created all the assets. But I found that the clients didn't really have big budgets to do this work. I wasn't paying myself, but I was doing all the work and I was creating all these marketing assets that they didn't really know how to use, even though I was hand feeding them. Here's what you need to do. So my boyfriend is a filmmaker. He said, why don't you just start your own podcast? You have experience speaking to people. You love talking to people. That's how you get energy. And I said, okay. So I started one that was focused just on pr and it was, you know, a certain amount of time because that was drive time in the US and blah, blah, blah. And then I realized, like, oh, just asking the same questions and only interviewing publicists is not that fun. So I expanded it. That was in 2020. Here we are now. So six years of podcasting. I went from it being a side project for my PR firm and thinking it was a hobby to going, wow, I have such a big wait list. People are booking a year in advance. Wow, I have 200 people I haven't even vetted yet. Realizing it was a business, getting asked to be on an ad network, teaching at USC for the master's in digital wealth, PR and advertising, PR branding, then digital social, digital media management, and now digital social media, where my podcast course is launching very shortly. And so I'm teaching people not just how to use it as a brand building tool, but actually what's the business? How is it associated with your current business, or how is it a business unto itself? What's the brand? How do you have a seamless production cycle and then how do you make sure you're engaging the right audience and monetizing? So I'm really excited about the course. And that's also something I've created another version for entrepreneurs. I've started creating some AI tools. But that was really how I realized that this thing that I love doing wasn't just a passion project. I've spoken at podcast conferences. Now I've gotten to do all these amazing opportunities because of the time and energy I put into it and the love I have for, for every single person who comes on the podcast and to share the power of podcasting with People, you're okay.
- [05:30]
B
Now I gotta give you the boost because you didn't brag much. So I'll do the bragging for you. It's always better. You are in the top one and a half percent. I mean, people in the podcast space fizzle out, typically after eight episodes. According to my research, they last about eight episodes and they realized, holy moly, all this editing. Gotta find guests, all this. You've now reached how many downloads a month and how. I mean, huge numbers that have given you the badges to verify your success. Tell us about that.
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C
Yeah, well, thank you. Yes, I'm in the top 1 1/2% of podcasters. My numbers vary, but at the moment there are around 100,000amonth in terms of downloads up or down a little bit.
- [06:18]
B
Total. That's total, correct?
- [06:20]
C
Total, yeah. And rising. I'm in the top 10 US Apple marketing podcasts. I'm currently around number one, but in the top five in the UK.
- [06:32]
B
Wow.
- [06:33]
C
I'm around a hundredth, give or take, for the US business. And I'm ranking on several other charts too. And you don't, you know, it does take work. It doesn't. It's not overnight success, but it is something I really feel proud of as an indie podcaster. I'm not a celebrity. I didn't have a big sponsor behind me. I did this all on my own with the help of some really great people. And I've tried all the different things because I want to make sure when I'm making recommendations that I've tried them before I give them to somebody else as an audience.
- [07:07]
B
Well, you've done it. The slow growth method, but it's paid off. How many episodes did you create until it turned to cash when you then attracted a sponsor? And how comfortable are you with sharing your numbers? You don't have to, but I would.
- [07:24]
C
Yeah. So, gosh, I joined an ad network the beginning of last year and I was only at about 40,000 downloads a month.
- [07:38]
B
But how many episodes had you created?
- [07:40]
C
Episodes? I'm almost at 600, but I put out five a week. So trying to do the math here, I was, you know, maybe 300 something.
- [07:51]
B
300 episodes before you got picked up?
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C
Before I got picked up. I did have some monetization around that time with some sponsors who pay me, you know, monthly fee to be on.
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B
Oh, you did ask. Okay, so you had.
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C
I did have a couple, yeah. But. But yeah, I mean, I saw a lot of growth happen actually at a hundred episodes.
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B
So. A hundred episodes, that seems like magic number I hear that from so many. Once you reach a hundred numbers, if you can stay the course till a hundred, then you start turning to money. And what kind of money were you then getting with sponsors, if I may ask?
- [08:23]
C
Yeah, it wasn't a ton. I will say I'm again, slow growth. I want to try gentle. I'm not going to be a bear or like, like I don't go in and, you know, ask probably for what I should all the time couple sponsors. Two to five thousand a month for each sponsor. So enough to pay for my team, enough to pay for a little bit for me and also to invest because I spend a lot of money. I always want to reinvest and see what else can I do. Oh, I'm not really focused on this aspect of social media. I need to put money into there. Oh, I want to try out this other tool and it's going to cost this much or I'm not, I don't, you know, I'm not doing a lot for YouTube now. I want to grow there. So I see it as something I want to reinvest, which is also why I do consulting and other work beyond podcasting. But by next year, I'll be teaching living in the AI consulting world as well and podcasting. My favorite things are, you know, really elevating people's brands. And I. Podcasting is the way of the future.
- [09:22]
B
Oh, I, I couldn't agree more. Let me ask this. You are a professor at usc. You got in because of your brand and because you're unique and you're in Los Angeles. I'm an alumni. Not easy to become a professor without a PhD from a well credentialed or recognized university. How did you earn that spot? Because those are great bragging rights.
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C
That's an interesting story. During the pandemic, my PR firm grew really quickly. I had clients on cnbc, cnn, Fortune, Forbes, everywhere, including. I got one from a very small blog post. It got picked up by a bigger publication, which then we got an invitation for that client, a nonprofit, to be part of Amazon's regular Heroes TV series that they did for people who were doing great things during the pandemic. Out of that, Boston University actually reached out to me, cold messaged me on LinkedIn. I get a lot of great jobs off of cold emails or cold LinkedIn messages, which is, I know, a little bit unusual. And so I wasn't. But I just moved back to la, right. They were offering good money. It sounded like a great opportunity. They're looking, they were looking for diversity not just in ethnic diversity, but diversity of thought of location. But I would have to relocate and I didn't know what I was doing. I come from a family of educators, entrepreneurs and social workers. I didn't think education teaching was open to me because I only had a bachelor's. So as you said. Right. I was like. And they're like, oh, for professor of the practice, it's okay. You've proven yourself by your work.
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B
Awesome.
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C
So then I had a mentor at usc. He's an associate director of the digital social media program, and he had come out to be a keynote speaker for an event I had produced in Houston because I also have a little bit, not quite to your caliber, but an event producing background.
- [11:31]
B
Sure.
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C
So we stayed in touch. When I moved back, we stayed in touch. We'd go out to dinner with him and his wife and I said, hey, Freddie, I just got headhunted. I don't really know what I'm doing with this interview. I did go through one. I made it to the first round of interviews, but again, I didn't know what I didn't know. Now I know how I would answer questions. So he had me guest lecture for one of his classes, and it was virtual because it was still pandemic times. He liked the way I spoke to the students and engaged them. And so he said. He, unbeknownst to me, said, okay, I'm going to get her into usc. So then he told me, hey, get your resume ready. Let me. What would you think about teaching? Oh, there's a job opening for this PR and branding class. Those are two things that you're really good at. Sending my resume, applied for that position, had an interview, was hired immediately.
- [12:23]
B
Now, is that because of your podcast background or your PR background?
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C
It was everything.
- [12:31]
B
Your brand got you the job.
- [12:33]
C
Yes, the podcast did help a lot, even though it was newer because the previous professor, who is, you know, pretty high up in the decision making process, said, oh, I have a podcast. I used it for this class. You can use your podcast because this class is about PR and branding. Your podcast is your brand amplified. So use it. Have the students listen to episodes. I was handed a syllabus and had to recreate it for myself. I didn't really know what I was doing, but I did find a really great connection with my students. They felt empowered. I still keep in touch with many of my students from that time. Then I went on to teach a couple of other classes. And then Freddie said, let me introduce you to the communication side because you do so Much in digital media with your podcast and with your clients, you should be teaching over here too. Then the digital media management program stole me. We turned a speaker series that was a little sporadic. I said, why is this not a podcast? We can reach more people. Turned it into a podcast at usc. So that's my second podcast right now.
- [13:35]
B
Oh, wow.
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C
Yeah.
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B
And you're doing a third, too?
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C
Yeah. The second one is Mediascape Insights from digital change makers that's tied into USC and the programs there. And then on Luay, I said, let me go back to grad school, get my MBA and maybe my PhD so that I have that pedigree. I'm teaching master's students, and most of them don't care because I have the practice and professional expertise. But a lot of. But some of them, you know, every once in a while. Wait, you're only getting your master's and you're teaching us? How are you qualified?
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B
Right.
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C
So I'm. I'm finishing that up. I got an MBA specializing in AI and ML, which further expanded my knowledge of AI, which I really need to teach.
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B
ML is machine learning.
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C
Machine learning. Yeah. Thank you. And now I've started building out agentic tools for podcasting for myself. But now people want to subscribe to these tools because of the way I've built them. So I'm creating SaaS, products for podcasters, and I have a whole work stream because I really just want to help other people be really effective at this medium, not get that boredom or that anger, that fear, that frustration that comes after a few episodes and not seeing results, and stay in this for the long haul. So my sweet spot, my apex really is in teaching AI. Right? Not just gen AI, but agentic, some machine learning in there. And then also, of course, what we're doing right now, podcasting.
- [15:05]
B
Well, how can people. I want to bring it to brass tacks. Sponsorships is an easy answer. How about people selling their products or services or courses as a. Can they do that through podcast hosting? Tell me about that, what your experience has been, because your experience is vast. I mean, you were one of almost a pioneer. I mean, you've had how many episodes now if you interviewed people?
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C
Well, for this specific podcast, about 600. Another, probably 350 from my other three podcasts.
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B
Okay, and how many times have you guessed it like this?
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C
Oh, God. I don't pitch myself to guest, but I do guest once or twice a week.
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B
Okay, so you're. I get it. So you. You. I would qualify you as experienced and an expert. Your Numbers reflect that. And you've seen all this. What have you observed? Because I'm. My podcast is focused on teaching people. You interviewing experts. And then how do you make money? Turn this passion into profit. It's one thing for. It's a hobby. You're scratching an itch. But I'm a business person, as you are. How do they make money? Beyond sponsorship?
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C
Yeah, beyond sponsorships. Ad revenue, affiliate marketing. There's a great website called Code Adx.
- [16:33]
B
So let me write that down because I haven't heard of that. So I will.
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C
I'll introduce you to the founder because there's code. Yep. C O, D, E, A D, X.
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B
A D, X. Okay. And that's an affiliate program.
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C
It is. It comes from a guy who was in radio for, I think 40 years, realized that this is the model that's. It's a broken model. And it's not working well for podcasters unless you have high download numbers. Right, right. It's when I started getting my numbers up that I started seeing bigger paychecks from advertising. But he, Matt, he vets all of the companies and matches basically e commerce. You get paid immediately. I've tested it. And these e commerce brands have to offer you, the podcaster, the highest discount to give to your audience.
- [17:22]
B
Well, that's a great model. And now I'm going to ask the hardest question and the most challenging for podcasters because most fizzle out after eight episodes. They get to eight episodes, they scratch the itch. Okay, I'm a podcaster. You're up on Spotify. You're here, you're there, got eight episodes and then they quit. It's like when I taught martial arts. Getting going through college. Kids get to a yellow belt, maybe their orange belt, possibly a blue belt, they're done. Hard. It gets hard. Oh, my gosh, I got a spar. Oh, my gosh. I've got to create money out of this. And they quit and they have some cockamamie excuse for why you've endured. You went through the pain and it's. And you mentioned about 100 episodes. So you gotta stay the course till you get your black belt and then the real money comes in. But how do you. Where that gap is? What I want to hear from you. What does it take to go from very few downloads to getting to where all. Oh, advertisers are interested. Sponsors are interested.
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C
Well, that 100 episode and even 50 episodes, but 100 really is what solidifies you in the algorithm.
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B
Okay, Right.
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C
So that's part of it. You do have to get the right guests. Guests who are going to share. I have guests who share every few months. I have guests who shared their episodes for over a year. Right. So guests who are truly going to engage. And not everybody will, but you want guests who are going to. We didn't even talk about using your podcast as a lead gen tool because a lot of people do that as well. And that's another.
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B
Yes.
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C
Right. And I do spend money on digital marketing, advertising.
- [19:07]
B
Oh.
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C
Interestingly, social media. I hate to say because I, you know, but it. Social media doesn't really do anything for my podcast.
- [19:16]
B
What does?
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C
Direct advertising SEO. There is a website called POD SEO.
- [19:24]
B
Okay.
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C
On that website you can see how you're ranking on certain keywords. Then you know, oh, and you can compare that to what keywords you want to be ranking on. And then you know, oh, I need to put these in my title. I need to put these words in the show notes. Right. So they're just like any other brand. You have to treat it as a brand, you have to treat it as a business.
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B
Sure.
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C
So you have to investigate all of these different strategies.
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B
What about the advertising? Where do you advertise on Facebook, LinkedIn.
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C
Where a lot of remnant advertising on websites.
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B
Okay.
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C
And a lot of advertising on podcast. You know, you can, you can advertise on your own ad network. That's something that we're doing right now, is creating ads. So on my podcast will be promoted on other top podcasts in my ad network, theirs will be promoted on mine. That's big. And honestly, being part of a network that has 600 plus podcasts, mostly around sports, so obviously that attracts a lot of people. I'm in the lifestyle category. That's just a new category that they've been expanding over the past couple years. That's helped a lot. So it's all about, yes, the who you know, the how you know, you know that what you're doing. I've tried all of the different techniques for promotion and advertising. So the ones that stick, I really find people who are an expert at one piece, they really know how to promote. For Spotify listeners, what do you do to promote on Spotify? How do I need to change my Spotify profile? Tweak it a little bit to make sure I'm really engaging listeners there. Apple, same thing. Apple will also, they have a creator program where you can just submit a form and they'll decide if they want to promote your podcast widely, no charge. So you have to find all these little things that you won't know if you're beginning right, you kind of stumble into them. You learn them from other podcasters. And I've also been fortunate enough to speak at several major podcasting conferences and talk about branding your podcast. What do you do after you have an episode? Right, the episode is the start. Everything else is the stuff that really gets you going, gets you promoted, makes you that authority. I've talked about AI tools for podcasters and so just relationship building, getting.
- [21:52]
B
Now, would they find this information on your podcast or where would you. Where have you shared this so our listeners can learn more about you? I want to give you some. Some support and where can they learn about those things? Because those are very specific. I'm. After we finish, I'm going there. I'm like, all in. I've taken notes throughout this interview. Is it on your. Is it inside your brand amplified?
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C
Some of them, yes. If you look at my preferred resources page, I have a lot of the companies that I like to work with, including social media companies, where they can take your episode, chop it up, and you can directly schedule to social media from their platform. Simplified.com. i have codes for these things, too, that I can share with you if you want to put them in the show notes for your audience.
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B
Sure.
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C
You'll get a little discount. That's on my. Yeah, okay. Yeah. If you click through the links from my website, you'll get the discounts or whatever's offered with these different companies.
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B
I'm doing it after.
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C
And then I do have. You know, I modeled my USC course after when I put together four entrepreneurs and small businesses who wanted to start podcasting. I do have a program. I haven't fully launched it, but it's all put together. You can reach out on my website and ask about it. I have the easy button modules you can go through with worksheets and lessons and then a few coaching sessions. Or I have the whole enchilada. You want me to handle all the production, making sure you have highly qualified guests. You have video and audio editing. Have my team put it on your hosting site, do soup to nuts for you and fast track you to success. And it's not an arm and a leg. I'm very reasonable because I genuinely have an interest in helping people and I know that most of us start out the same way that I did. Indie podcaster, putting a little money into it, going, I need to spend a little more money in it. Let me take this other work so that I can fund it, because I do believe that I have something and that this is Where I should be.
- [24:04]
B
Wow. Well, Annika, you have dropped bombs. Oh, well, you have to understand, you're so, you're such. You're at a, at a black belt level and you clearly, you've got the numbers. You can't not have, have a multiple degree black belt with the numbers you've accumulated. So for the people that are listening to us that are new or are considering podcasting, you've dropped major bombs. To you, it's everyday work. But for somebody that's new, this is eye opening. I know television very well. I know radio very well. Podcasting, I have probably interviewed 100 people, so it's pale by comparison. Not all of them were uploaded yet, but about 100 people and I've guessed it about 75, 80 times. Something that are right around there. But it's a newer platform to me. Television, I know backward, forward, upside down radio. I had a show on NBC 97.1 in LA or if you know about them, FM. So that was my show on Saturday afternoon. I know that platform. But podcasting is newer. It's not the new S. It's newer and it's going to be around until we are pushing up daisies. It is the new platform. That's why I'm all in. People are all in. You either pivot or perish.
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C
Yes.
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B
In life, you pivot into this, you lean in completely and you embrace it. So where can people go to get these tools? Is it your brand amplified.com absolutely.
- [25:38]
C
Your brand amplified.com you can also schedule a free strat session with me there.
- [25:44]
B
Great.
- [25:44]
C
And I don't know if she's on my website yet, so I'll make sure my web admin puts her on. But one of the easiest ways to get a lot of advice from me is I have a digital clone. I don't have the video version up. I just have audio and text. But you can voice text. You can text and have me speak out the information or you can call and speak to my digital clone. She is me. She has over 4 million plus, probably closer to 5 million words programmed right now from interviews. I've done courses, I've created workshops, I've given podcast interviews. I've done book chapters that I've written articles that I've written. And so she is a great resource to go to to ask basic questions about branding, marketing strategy, digital strategy, podcasting. How do you start a podcast? She'll give you kind of the one on one. It's a brief introduction, but if you want more in depth, then I'm happy to work with people directly. I'm just so passionate about this.
- [26:43]
B
I could tell. Well good. Well, you've been a great guest and I'm going to have you on in the near future. Part two. We got more Anika Jackson Annika, thank you so much.
- [26:55]
C
Thank you so much. Mitch.
- [26:56]
A
Thanks for tuning into the Amazing Authorities podcast. If today's episode inspired you, take a moment to subscribe, rate and leave a review. It helps more experts like you rise to the top for behind the scenes access and free resources to boost your authority. Head to MitchCarson.com until next time, stay amazing.