How to Engagify Anything: Anders Boulanger on Captivating Audiences and Commanding Attention

Summary

Episode Overview

Title: How to Engagify Anything: Anders Boulanger on Captivating Audiences and Commanding Attention
Podcast: The Amazing Authorities Podcast
Host: Mitch Carson
Guest: Anders Boulanger (Author, Magician, Founder of Engagify)
Date: December 4, 2025

Main Theme:
Mitch Carson interviews Anders Boulanger about the art and science of engagement—how to consistently captivate audiences, command attention, and elevate perceived authority, whether virtually, in-person, or at high-stakes events like trade shows.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Nature of Engagement: Virtual vs. Live (01:06–04:04)

• Virtual Engagement: Requires thinking like a TV producer—using camera shifts, props, and on-screen changes to reset attention. Anders explains:

  "Any change that we detect creates new interest again, because all of a sudden your mind's going like, what's going on now?" (01:30)

• Physical Props as Captivation Devices: Both high-tech (digital visuals) and "low-tech, no tech" (rubber chickens, whiteboards) are effective.

  "Using a prop automatically does light up a part of the brain... just by the fact that you can merely hold it in your hand, it is connecting you to the person who is watching." (03:25)

• The Psychology Behind Props: Mirror neurons cause us to react viscerally to objects others hold.

2. Authority as an Engagement Driver (04:20–06:36)

• Claiming Authority Matters:

  "If we don't assign or attribute authority to someone, why should we listen, right?" (04:39)

• How Authority Is Conveyed: Through confidence (avoiding "uptalk" that sounds uncertain), attire, and position "on the stage."

• Perception of Status: Higher status (in entertainment, speaking, even how a diamond ring is presented) converts to higher perceived value.

• Notable Quote:

  "There's something psychologically wired for us... anything that fits in your hand, there's some mirror neurons that fire." (03:20)

3. The Hierarchy of Influence and Perceived Value (06:36–09:34)

• Entertainment’s Pecking Order: Discussion of how movie stars, TV personalities, comedians, magicians, and others are perceived differently—and how this affects earning power.

• Perception Shapes Value: Illustrative story about diamond rings and packaging (Tiffany box vs. local jeweler).

• Borrowed Authority: Standing (literally and figuratively) elevates status and attention.

• Memorable Quote:

  "Attention is the new currency. We've got to learn how to own it." (20:23)

4. The S.A.V.E.U. Framework for Engagement (09:34–14:28)

Anders introduces his signature "SAVE U" framework, practical and memorable for holding attention:

• S (Simple):
  Make everything easy to understand to avoid "cognitive backlog."

  "Our brain is 2% of our body weight, but consumes 20% of our energy. So when someone pays attention, they don't only spend time with you, but they pay in calories." (09:34)

• A (Authority):
  Project confidence, own your message, and manage perception through position and presentation.
• V (Vary the Senses):
  Engage visual, auditory, and kinesthetic senses through props, vocal variety, and storytelling.

  "Varying the senses... out of NLP... when you're talking to a whole audience you have to shotgun approach this, because everyone's going to have different systems, if you will." (11:52)

• E (Emotion):
  People remember peak emotional experiences—use surprise, humor, and contrast.
• U (You-Focused):
  Audience wants to know "what’s in it for me"—appeal to self-interest, survival instincts, and avoid being ignored.

  "It's the carrot and the stick, it's the WIIFM: What's in it for me? Is it going to benefit me or harm me?... We want things that are good for us, and if it’s going to eat us, I want to be aware of that." (13:38)

5. Practical Results: Real-World Applications (14:28–16:50)

• Audience Stories: A podcast host who read Anders' book landed a better job and higher pay by adopting the book’s principles.

  "She said... reading your book helped me play bigger in my interview and I got more money because of playing bigger and representing myself." (15:14)

• Permission to Play Boldly: Most people need encouragement to be bolder and more dynamic—"boring to bold line;" only rarely do people overdo engagement.

  Exercise:
  Anders assigns "avatars" in training—presenters must redo their spiel as a "kindergarten teacher" to recalibrate what feels “too much” versus engaging.

  "To the person doing it, they think it's obnoxious. But... we need to reset our calibration for what we think we need to put out there. We get so conservative, we play it so safe that we end up more on that boring side of the scale." (17:57)

6. Business Model: Engagify (18:24–20:12)

• Company Mission: Engagify helps companies make events and teams more engaging—using infotainment (magic, customized presentations) for trade show lead generation and lasting impact.

  "We make your events more engaging or your teams more engaging... using my background as a magician, I do engaging presentations that inform the crowd about whatever solution we're talking about." (18:33)

• Trade Show Wizardry: Magic acts as a metaphor to move audiences from problem to solution, making messages memorable.
• Key Results: Increased attention, interaction, and, ultimately, sales for clients.

  "Everything we do... is a transformation mechanism, is a story... going from those places, and that makes it memorable." (19:39)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Engagement Tools:

  "Sometimes it's not about going high tech. Sometimes it's about going, you know, low tech, no tech." — Anders Boulanger (02:13)

• The Science of Props:

  "Anything that fits in your hand, there's some mirror neurons that fire... that is a bit of an engagement hack." — Anders Boulanger (03:17)

• On Playing Bold:

  "We need to kind of reset our calibration... We get so conservative, we play it so safe that we end up more on that boring side of the scale." — Anders Boulanger (17:57)

• Engagement’s Value:

  "Attention is the new currency. We've got to learn how to own it." — Anders Boulanger (20:23)

• On Authority and Perception:

  "If we don't assign or attribute authority to someone, why should we listen, right?" — Anders Boulanger (04:39)

• On the Power of Emotion:

  "Are you being memorable? Because the emotions are what, when we peak, have a peak experience... that's what's going to make us remember it after the fact." — Anders Boulanger (12:13)

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------------| | 01:06 | Virtual vs. in-person engagement tactics | | 03:25 | Using props as an engagement "hack" | | 04:39 | The importance of authority in engagement | | 09:34 | Introduction of the S.A.V.E.U. framework | | 14:55 | Real-world story: audience using Engagify principles | | 17:08 | “Avatar” exercise; recalibrating energy as a presenter | | 18:33 | Anders explains the Engagify business model | | 20:23 | "Attention is the new currency" — why engagement matters |

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Resource Links & Contact

• Anders Boulanger on LinkedIn: Best platform for direct connection
• Website: Engagify.AI ("Not about artificial intelligence, but authentic interactions.") (21:14)
• Book: Engage: How to Hold Attention in a World of Distraction (Available on Amazon worldwide)

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Summary Takeaways

• Engagement is both science and performance: Simple, sensory, and emotionally resonant tactics (including props and body language) create memorable and persuasive messaging.
• Authority and perception are everything: Borrowed status, packaging, and presentation all boost your "price tag" and impact.
• Bolder is (almost always) better: Most people underestimate how bold they need to be to resonate with audiences.
• “Attention is the new currency:” Without sustained attention, even the best message or product goes unnoticed—and unsold.

Anders’ actionable insights show that anyone—presenter, teacher, leader, or brand—can become “engagified,” capture attention, and move from invisible to influential.

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For more, connect with Anders via LinkedIn or visit engagify.ai for resources and training.

Transcript

[Mitch Carson]

Welcome to the Amazing Authorities podcast, where game changers, visionaries, and category leaders share how they built their brands, platforms, and global influence. Your host is Mitch Carson, international speaker, media strategist, and creator of the Instant Authority system. If you're ready to learn from those who've done it and want to become the go to expert in your space, you're in the right place.

Today's guest will engage you. First, I have from Canada, Anders Bullinger, who's here to.

Infotain you. Anders, welcome to the show.

[Anders Boulanger]

Hey, thanks for having me, Mitch. It's a pleasure. Been just hanging out with you before we started recording. A lot of connections here.

[Mitch Carson]

Yeah. And you've got a goldfish to share. I mean, you've got all sorts of gadgets that are so cool and you would know how to engage people virtually and in person. And they are two different art forms, aren't they?

[Anders Boulanger]

I mean, there's some that translate and then others that don't, you know, because when we're virtually, we have to think more like a TV producer. Right. And change things up. And I don't have everything hooked up in my studio for our call right now, but I do have extra cameras. I could do camera angles and shifts and. And any change that we detect creates new interest again, because all of a sudden your mind's going like, what's going on now? Right. And there's only so much we can do in person to do that, whether that's, you know, tone of voice and body language, where we stand on the stage, maybe we come out in the audience and it's like, ooh, you know, people kind of like start feeling stressed, like, is there audience participation in this, you know, or what's happening? So there are things you can do. But then, like you mentioned, I can have a goldfish swim across the screen. I can do that now. I'd love to see it. They'll just have to imagine it. I'll get rid of the book. And so we talk about, you know, attention spans are so short these days that they're not of a, you know, goldfish. But the idea is that we. That we. We do have smaller attention spans and we do need to re. Engage. We have to figure out. Figure out ways to capture and hold attention, retain it. And so in virtual, you know, we do have these at our disposal if you want. Right. You were mentioning before handheld props, which I do have things kicking around me as well. Yeah, you've got your little rubber chickens. Sometimes it's not about going high tech. Sometimes it's about going, you know, low tech, no tech. You know, I know of people who will hold up little whiteboards or they'll have different, you know, props that they, they hold. And it's just something immediately when you see a prop. And this goes back again for our listeners who don't know, I'm a magician by trade, going way back. I just remember as a kid going to watch a magic show and seeing all the props and the tables and the things set up and you just wondered, like, what are they going to do with that? Right? Or you go watch a street performer. Sometimes street performers will put on music and they will set up to the music pulling out all these different props. And each time they pull out a prop, people go, whoa, what's going to happen? Right? We're setting up that, opening that story loop idea, right. And so, you know, with that prop we do create interest and there's something psychologically wired for us too that anything that fits in your hand, there's some mirror neurons that fire. Like you hold up that little rubber chicken in the way with squeezing. I know how that feels. Right, I see that. And, and so there's a part of our brain that lights up like we've got it. Right. And so that is a bit of an engagement hack for people is using a prop automatically does light up a part of the brain. And you know, just by the fact that you can merely hold it in your hand, it is connecting you to the person who is watching your audience.

[Mitch Carson]

Well, I'm going to prove your point because you're looking at the, you're looking at the camera right now. Look, I'm going to, I'm going to predict what's going to happen and I'll tell you about it after.

You smiled. And that happens 100% of the time.

[Anders Boulanger]

There you go.

[Mitch Carson]

Because you are a human being and you have emotions and that's what causes. And tell us about some of these engagement devices that are in your book. International best selling book, by the way. You got to change the COVID because you are an international bestseller in the UK and Canada and probably in the.

[Anders Boulanger]

US Yeah, we did well. Yeah. So, I mean, there's, there's different engagement drivers that we, we talk about. And one of the things that you just touched on, which I think I want to talk about is, is authority being one of them. If we don't assign or attribute authority to someone, why, why should we listen, right? And you're saying, hey, we earned the title of best international bestseller. Put that on the book, right? Like give it more importance. And if we want to get away from the book and talk about how we speak, if I'm going to change the way I talk right now and kind of do what they call up talking. And now as I talk, it kind of sounds like I'm asking questions, doesn't it?

[Mitch Carson]

Ah, it does, yes. Nice.

[Anders Boulanger]

And all of a sudden how that undermines our authority. Right. When you own the message and when you either come from the heart or you're just passionate about something, it comes across in a different way. That hits people in a different way as well.

[Mitch Carson]

Right.

[Anders Boulanger]

How it's received and so how you're dressed can affect your authority.

I work in tech a lot, so you see sometimes CEOs in hoodies and jeans. Right. But there is something that, as casual as they want to be and as relatable as they are, I think I would hold them up higher in terms of status if they were dressed better. Right. And you probably listen to them a little bit more or at least there's some sort of attribution, things that we respect.

And we put on a pedestal. So things that are higher, if you think back, like a judge sitting on a judge's bench has authority. Right, right. An actor on a stage, that sort of thing, or a speaker on a stage, you know, they're given a platform, literally and figuratively in that sense.

[Mitch Carson]

Well, there's something that, that resonated with me about exposure and how do you engage in and the difference. Denzel Washington was interviewed by.

Steve Harvey, who's a well known celebrity in the U.S. steve Harvey has a TV show and he said, what's the difference between what you do and I do and, and Denzel and this might not be completely accurate, but you'll understand the importance. He said, I'm 29ft tall and you are at best 24 inches tall.

[Anders Boulanger]

Movie and TV? Yes.

[Mitch Carson]

I'm a movie star. Is perception just what you're talking about on a stage, you're at most 2ft tall, because a big screen in the living room, watching a move, watching tv. But a movie star, a Brad Pitt, Joel, Angelina Jolie, of that Meryl Streep, they're bigger than life figures.

Bigger than life figures.

[Anders Boulanger]

It reminds me a lot, Mitch, of what I would call the hierarchy of entertainment or hierarchy of whatever we'd call it, and the idea that you've got those movie stars up there and TV stars, like you're saying, and then comedians or coming down and because I was a magician, we'd be like, well, we're not Like a comedian. But we're at least above jugglers and jugglers are over clowns and mimes like we're up a few, few notes.

[Mitch Carson]

There is a hierarchy or a pecking order, isn't there? And soap opera stars are at a lower level than yes. So in that world there is a pecking order.

[Anders Boulanger]

Yeah. And then you get people. And I'm kind of one of these examples doing more keynoting on the book content on different things. So now a speaker and you, you're in that world and very familiar, you know, is above that of an entertainer as a magician. Right. So it's kind of like and then what you can command. And I think before we started recording, we talked a little bit about Dan Kennedy and you know, some other marketers and, and there is that idea that, you know, the, the higher status you have, the more you can charge for who you are 100%. Right.

[Mitch Carson]

Well, and also you on your left hand you have a ring and it's a matter. Yes. That's called marriage. And in order to buy your wife a diamond, you could have bought it depending on the box that you, you know, offered your life with. In that when you get down on one knee, if that's how you did it or not, is it wrapped in Tiffany paper or is it wrapped in the local jewelers box? Both represent something different. And the perceived value, it's perception.

[Anders Boulanger]

Yeah. So again, coming back to engagement, if it has importance, and I do usually sum up a lot of what we talk about in an acronym that works in this and I call it save you. So S A V E and then the letter U it's gonna. Okay, so the S is simple. We have to simplify things because our brain is 2% of our body weight, but it contain, consumes, I should say, 20% of our energy. So it's a real hog on resources and calories. So when someone pays attention, they don't only spend time with you, but they pay in calories. And if you lose them because you're using too big of words. And this overwhelm is called cognitive backlog, if you get technical. But I don't recommend using that because that sounds a little too. It sounds fancier than overwhelm. Right. So let's drink. Drink our own Kool Aid in this sense. Right. Simplify. And so that when we get overwhelmed, we tune out and then we start daydreaming and we start thinking about what we're going to have for dinner and all that kind of stuff. And we've lost part of our audience. Right. So that's the simple. The A is the authority that we just talked about. How do we up that authority? Right. Just in how we package ourselves and everything. The V is about varying the senses. So we've already done a little bit of that today. I've had the goldfish out. We had some visual stuff. We've been talking. We haven't maybe touched on feeling that much, but we want to make people feel things as well through our presentations. Right.

[Mitch Carson]

How do you do that?

[Anders Boulanger]

Well, varying the senses. This comes out of nlp, which I'm sure you're familiar with, Mitch. You know, you've got visual, auditory and kinesthetic. Right. And how we. The predicates, which is a fancy word. I'll simplify it. NLP was always so frustrating for me because I started learning about it and then I'd get overwhelmed by all the terminology and then I'd be. Put it away. But then I finally got trained and everything. But the predicates are kind of like, hey, that sounds familiar to me. Sounds familiar, right? That would be one way. We want to work that into auditory. When you're talking to a whole audience, you have to shotgun approach this, because everyone's going to have different, you know.

Different systems, if you will. Right. So if we. We kind of vary them whether we're talking visual. Hey, can, you know, can people see what I'm talking about here? Does that ring a bell? How many people are picking up what I'm putting down right now, you know, or are feeling this? You know, those would be very way. Various ways of doing it.

[Mitch Carson]

Seeing it, feeling it, hearing it.

[Anders Boulanger]

Yeah, yeah, great. And so we got the sav. The E is emotion, which I was kind of touching on with the feeling. But I mean, moving people, in a sense, are you making them smile like you did with the little rubber chicken? Right. Are you being memorable? Because the emotions are what, when we peak. Have a peak experience, it's because of the emotions. And that's what's going to make us remember it after the fact. Right. And so it's also going to shift us emotion to emotion. It's going to be good contrast to create engagement.

[Mitch Carson]

And you have persuade in your book. I'm looking at the. The screened back text. So one of the. Persuade, communicate. I'm seeing that it's quite subtle, but nice. Persuade, sell.

[Anders Boulanger]

I'm glad you're catching that on there because the idea with that design is before you can communicate, persuade, you know, lead, teach, sell, whatever you want to do, you have to Engage first. Really. So that's what the book's about, is.

Where we're at right now. There's a lot of competition for attention, right?

[Mitch Carson]

Oh, big time.

[Anders Boulanger]

Media dopamine hits like it's. And also from a cultural point of view, we're in a place where people are growing up on their phones, maybe not develop some of these soft skills, engagement skills that we talk about, you know, that are necessary to try to compete in these days. So I'm getting off track though, because I just do want to come back to the you.

[Mitch Carson]

Oh, sure, please.

[Anders Boulanger]

You. And just, just to put a pin in that niche, the U is about you focused. Is it going to. And this is that. That is it. It's the carrot in the stick. It's the wiifm. What's in it for me? Right? Is it going to benefit me or is it going to harm me? And if it's going to harm me, I want to avoid it. And that's going back to the crocodile brain, the survival instincts. Right? We want food, we want things that are good for us. And if it's going to eat us, I want to be aware of that. Right. So pushing that button of dopamine being the neurotransmitter and norepinephrine for stress, those two things will capture attention as well. So, you know, if you need to, you know, get people's attention back, what's in it for me? Hey, by the way, save you. This thing I'm teaching you right now is going to help.

[Mitch Carson]

I love it. I love it.

[Anders Boulanger]

Great, great.

[Mitch Carson]

I love acronyms and that's easy to remember. How do people make money with your book? What? Where? Give me the example. Someone that was able to consume your ideas. I know the book is new, so it's out there and I'm sure it's available on Amazon Worldwide, so they can. And buy it there. What have you seen with people using the techniques in your book?

[Anders Boulanger]

Well, one of the. One of my early readers, I'll share this story just because it was kind of, you know, you write a book, you're passionate about something, but when people start actually using it, it's so rewarding to hear back. Right. It's just like 100%. It's like amazing validation. Yeah, yeah. And you're kind of like, you know, I put this out there and you don't, you know, and so this, this woman who had me on her podcast, actually she read the book before she had me on the podcast because she really wanted to. And so she got like a PDF, right. She read it on the computer, didn't even have the book at that point. It wasn't published. It was pre published moment I guess at that point in time. And she was so excited about it to talk about it. And then later she said that I'm actually leaving this job because I just got hired with a new job. And I wanted to thank you because I believe that the while being on the podcast with you and reading your book help me play bigger in my interview and I got more money because of playing bigger and, and representing myself. Right? You're gonna give me a chicken squeeze.

[Mitch Carson]

No, no, this is the yellow chicken for fun. This is okay because it's green. That's why you get the green squeeze.

To it.

[Anders Boulanger]

Yeah. All right. Gotcha, gotcha. So, yeah, so it was kind of, you know, that's where, you know, sometimes we, we need to give. Be given permission to, to play bigger. Right. You know, and, and when we do coaching with teams and everything, I have something that I call the boring to bold line. And it's this idea that we're, we want to find this place of engagement, right? Where's that sweet spot for us? And we're so concerned that we're too bold or annoying. Right. Playing it too big, you know. And I look back at all the people who've trained. Maybe I've had to ask one to tone it down a bit, but most people, we need them to crank it up and we need to play bigger.

[Mitch Carson]

I like this. Bold to brave.

[Anders Boulanger]

Boring to bold. I'm sorry, but brave's good too. You need the bravery to, to try new things, to force yourself out of your little box. Because 1. Can I share one other exercise?

[Mitch Carson]

Absolutely.

[Anders Boulanger]

And this is kind of a. I have this thing, I call it Avatar is kind of, if you will. And it's like, let's say someone's got like a little two minute presentation, a little spiel they've done. And if they're very monotone, Mitch. And they just kind of talk at the same time all the time and it's kind of like puts you to sleep like this. I'll assign this avatar of. Okay, you got to do that again. But you have to do it as a kindergarten teacher, right? So when as the kindergarten teacher, boys and girls, they're going to be. Have much higher modulation. They're going to be talking like this and it's going to sound over the top, you know, like in their mind especially. And then when we go through the exercise, I'll ask the rest of the People in the group. And I'm like, what was that? How was that for you? Was that too much? And they're like, no, that was just perfect. Right? Like, to the person.

Doing it, they think it's obnoxious. But we don't really realize we need to kind of reset our calibration for what we think we need to put out there, you know, and. And so we get so conservative, we play it so safe that we end up more on that boring side of the scale. And so, you know, the things I talk about in this book is just kind of like, hey, let's take some risks, you know, let's. Let's be memorable. Let's. Let's try some different things, you know?

[Mitch Carson]

Well, outstanding. And you also run a business where you handle trade shows and you do infotainment. Tell us about that.

[Anders Boulanger]

Yeah, so the company's called Engagify. And so we, the way we kind of talk about it, we make either your events more engaging or your teams more engaging. So the teams is kind of the training side of things. And then the events, the infotainment is. Using my background as a magician, I am able to do engaging presentations that inform the crowd about whatever solution we're talking about. So we have customized presentations, and the magic is what spikes the dopamine, captures the attention, makes people want to watch, and it's really the spoonful of sugar that helps the medicine go down. The medicine being what is that memorable message that that company wants the crowd to remember? So we have a number of infotainers that work for our company, and we are basically like a lead generation mechanism at these trade shows. Next week, I'm going to be at Microsoft Ignite, working for one of our companies. Microsoft is one of our clients, but we work with lots of different technology companies, primarily mostly because they're selling ideas, you know, like, it's hard to hold software.

[Mitch Carson]

Yes.

[Anders Boulanger]

We're able to use our magic as the visual metaphor to move them from point A, where is the problem state, to this kind of aha moment where there's maybe a twist or a payoff in the magic trick, if you will, or whatever demonstration we're doing. And then we get to point B, where, you know, the, the solution where they're. They're enjoying the benefits of what the solution offers. And so every, everything we do, every demonstration is, you know, a transformation mechanism, is a. Is a story, if you will, of them going from those places. And that makes it memorable.

[Mitch Carson]

Well, that takes something that is boring and dry, makes it interesting and interactive. And therefore profitable. Yeah, because it's the evolution.

[Anders Boulanger]

And again, no one's paying attention. Like, attention is the new currency. We got to learn how to own it. Right. And so this is, you know, what we talk about in the book.

[Mitch Carson]

See, a lot of people have great ideas, but they don't know how. I mean, that are brilliant at coding or brilliant at, okay, this is the problem that it solves. But to articulate that, entertain people, engage them with your formula, is what you specialize in and what you do. So I have a great appreciation for what you do, Anderson. And without a sale, there is no business. Ideas will fall flat. And you create sales, you create profits for clients. And that's why you have the innovation with the yellow and the money side, which marries the two. And that's engaged first. Anders, where can they get in touch with you?

[Anders Boulanger]

Yeah, so they can reach out to me. LinkedIn is the best platform for Know my. My business and Anders Belanger.

[Mitch Carson]

Belange.

[Anders Boulanger]

Yeah. Yeah, looks like Boulanger. You'll see it in the notes, I'm sure. And then engagify AI. So E, N, G, A, G, I, F, Y, dot AI. And it's an AI because it's not about artificial intelligence. We're about authentic interactions.

[Mitch Carson]

Oh, I love that distinction. Boulanger. Boulanger. I'm pronouncing it better. It only took me 30 minutes. Well, Anders, you've been a great guest. I will buy your book now that I see where it is. I'm sure there are case studies inside there that I can relate to and profit from.

[Anders Boulanger]

Well, thanks for having me on, Mitch. It's a pleasure.

[Mitch Carson]

Thanks for tuning in to the Amazing Authorities podcast. If today's episode inspired you, take a moment to subscribe, rate and leave a review. It helps more experts like you rise to the top for behind the scenes access and free resources to boost your authority. Head to MitchCarson.com until next time, stay amazing.