Legacy, Branding, and Basketball Greatness: Paul Kepper on the Untold Story of Moses Malone

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Legacy, Branding, and Basketball Greatness: Paul Kepper on the Untold Story of Moses Malone

Podcast: The Amazing Authorities Podcast
Host: Mitch Carson
Guest: Paul Kepper
Date: December 8, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features Paul Kepper, author of Moses Malone: The Life of a Basketball Prophet, in a compelling conversation with host Mitch Carson. Together, they dig deep into the life, legacy, and overlooked greatness of NBA legend Moses Malone. Paul reveals how Malone’s unique story offers lessons not only in sports achievement but also personal branding, resilience, and the subtle forces that shape public memory.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origin of “Basketball Prophet” and Moses’s Legendary Predictions

• Title Meaning: The subtitle is a nod to both the biblical Moses and Malone's almost prophetic self-confidence and vision.

  • At age 14, Malone wrote in the family Bible predicting he'd become the nation’s best high school player and later, the first to leap directly from high school to the pro leagues—both of which he accomplished. (03:00)
  • His famous “fo’, fo’, fo’” playoff prediction (intending Philly would sweep three series, which they nearly did) solidified his reputation for bold foresight. (02:30)

  “He had a few of these incredible, highly unlikely predictions that came true.” —Paul Kepper [03:18]

2. Moses Malone: The Man Behind the Wall

• Personality: Malone was standoffish with media, leading to misconceptions about his intellect and likability.

  • Paul discovered, through extensive interviews, a man with humor, intelligence, and a reputation as a cherished teammate and mentor—especially to Charles Barkley and Akeem Olajuwon. (03:43–04:50)

  “What I discovered was a man who, number one, was very intelligent both on the court and off… loved to play pranks on his teammates in the locker room.” —Paul Kepper [04:00]

• Media Relationships: Malone kept reporters at a distance, influencing how his legacy was shaped.

3. Why Write About Moses Malone?

• Motivation: Paul saw Moses as underappreciated despite his accolades: 3-time MVP, Hall of Famer, historic trailblazer going pro from high school.

  • Paul’s mission: Tell Malone’s story for new generations unfamiliar with his impact. (05:23)

  “Nobody talks about him anymore. Nobody mentions him among the greats.” —Paul Kepper [06:00]

4. Malone’s Influence and Mentoring

• On Charles Barkley & Akeem Olajuwon:

  • Barkley credits Moses as the key mentor behind his own NBA success.
  • Akeem Olajuwon agreed to a heartfelt interview, calling it an "honor to talk... about Moses." (29:09)

  “He’s the one person most responsible for his success in the NBA.” —Paraphrasing Charles Barkley [06:40]

• On Mugsy Bogues: Moses helped the rookie navigate NBA pressures, finances, and professionalism, and was renowned for taking young players under his wing. (12:12 [Mugsy comments])

5. Unparalleled On-Court Achievements

• Rebounding Records: Greatest offensive rebounder in pro basketball history; over 7300 offensive rebounds—far eclipsing others.

  • The gap between Malone and #2 (Artis Gilmore) is nearly as large as between #2 and #79 on the all-time list. (13:13–14:04)

  “[Malone is] ahead of the field, ahead of everyone else in offensive rebounds, which is just staggering.” —Paul Kepper [13:54]

6. Why Has Moses Been Forgotten?

• Legacy Factors:

  • Lack of on-court “flash”; his skills didn’t translate to highlight reels the way Jordan or Magic’s did.
  • Played for many teams over a long career, lacking a single “home” fan base.
  • Was private, didn't court media or endorsements, which cost him exposure in pop culture. (14:34–17:11)

  “He had no interest in being famous. He thought it was nonsense. He's probably right.” —Paul Kepper [15:58] “If you don't wrap your package well, you're going to be a forgotten package.” —Mitch Carson [18:11]

7. Personal Life and Financial Wisdom

• Off the Court:

  • Married young, divorced due to “weakness for women”—but avoided drugs and drinking. (19:15–20:08)
  • Was careful and “cheap” with money, investing wisely, and remained financially secure up to his passing.
  • Benefited from older players’ early mentorship on off-court conduct and finances. (21:02–24:56)

  “He was fortunate to find a couple agents at a very young age who really looked out for him and steered him in the right direction, and he was wise enough to trust them.” —Paul Kepper [21:23]

8. The Business of Legacy and Brand

• Branding Lesson:
  • Paul and Mitch underscore how personal branding and strategic media visibility amplify or diminish a legacy—relevant in sports, business, and beyond. The take-home: Greatness alone doesn’t guarantee lasting fame.
• Financial Lessons for Athletes: Learning from Malone's example (and those who lost fortunes), mentorship and stewardship are crucial for longevity.

9. Paul Kepper’s Journey and Process

• Author’s Background: Lifelong basketball enthusiast, high school athlete, New York roots (08:53).
• Method: Over 250 interviews conducted for authenticity and depth. (05:23)
• On Writing Biographies: Describes the process as a years-long “passion project” with immense effort compared to other non-fiction.
• Podcasting Career:
  • Hosts “New Books in Sports” as part of the New Books Network—gives fellow authors exposure, builds networks. (25:24)
  • Treats the podcast purely as a passion project, not a profit source, but acknowledges its networking value. (27:19)

10. Book Promotion & Publishing

• Getting the Story Out:
  • Published by University of Nebraska Press, known for sports titles.
  • Available in bookstores, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, etc. (31:55)
  • Mitch suggests leveraging Akeem to reach Charles Barkley for further promotion, exemplifying creative networking. (30:04)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Prophecy & Self-Belief:

  “He wrote down… he was going to be the best high school basketball player… and [then] that he was going to be the first player to jump straight from high school to professional basketball… remarkably, it came to fruition.” —Paul Kepper [01:25–02:30]

• On Mentorship:

  “He served as a mentor to countless players, most notably Charles Barkley and Akeem Olajuwon, but many, many others.” —Paul Kepper [04:13]

• On Branding and Visibility:

  “Endorsements… put you in people’s living rooms in a different light. And they kind of embed you in the culture on a deeper level. And he never got that kind of access.” —Paul Kepper [16:55]

• On Podcasting and Passion:

  “I don’t make any money off the podcast. It’s totally a passion project.” —Paul Kepper [27:17, 27:19]

• On Legacy:

  “If you don’t wrap your package well, you’re going to be a forgotten package.” —Mitch Carson [18:11]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Book Title and Subheading Explanation: [01:21–03:29]
• Moses’s Personality and Misconceptions: [03:33–04:50]
• Motivation for Biography: [05:23–06:24]
• Mentoring Barkley and Olajuwon: [06:30–07:17]
• Rebounding Records: [13:13–14:04]
• Discussion on Malone’s Overlooked Legacy: [14:34–17:11]
• Personal Life / Finances: [19:15–22:28]
• Financial Advice and Stories from the NBA: [22:36–24:56]
• Paul's Podcasting Journey: [25:24–27:07]
• Strategies for Book Promotion via Networking: [29:50–30:45]
• Availability and Publishing Details: [31:50–32:18]

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in sports history, personal branding, or the nuanced ways legacies are shaped and forgotten. Paul Kepper brings Moses Malone’s inspiring, prophetic, and relatable story to light, while Mitch Carson provides sharp business and branding insights relevant to all professionals seeking authority and recognition.

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Amazing Authorities podcast where game changers, visionaries and category leaders share how they built their brands, platforms and global influence. Your host is Mitch Carson, international speaker, media strategist and creator of the Instant Authority system. If you're ready to learn from those who've done it and want to become the go to expert in your space, you're in the right place.

[B]

Paul Kepper is here today and he is a. Has an interesting background. We already had a little bit of pre chat and he's truly an amazing authority on a topic, on a book topic, on a. On an icon from the NBA. One man that I admired and I have learned very quickly how to admire Paul because his commitment to set up and explain maybe one of the most underappreciated athletes of our generation. Paul, welcome to the show.

[C]

Thanks, Mitch. Thanks for having me on.

[B]

Yeah. And why don't you hold up your book? We don't have to hold the mystery too long. And it's Moses Malone, the Life of a Basketball Prophet. Oh, strong word. Okay.

Tell us about where that subhead came from.

[C]

So, you know, obviously part of it is a play on the biblical Moses. Yes, but. But it's much more than that. It's. When Moses was 14 years old, he had kind of. He had just started playing basketball. He'd only been playing basketball for a few months. And he wrote down on a piece of paper, he wrote a note on a piece of paper saying he was going to be the best high school basketball player in the country by the end of his junior year. And he tucked it into the. There was a family Bible that was a family heirloom. And he tucked it into the Bible and left it there. And it was a preposterous prediction at the time because he'd only been playing a few months. He wasn't very good. He. He grew up in Petersburg, Virginia, which was not a basketball hotbed. There wasn't great competition there or great coaching. It was. There was no reason in the world to believe that he would achieve that goal. But he did. And by the end of his junior year in high school, he was the best high school player in the country. And so he saw fit to write a new note and stick it in the Bible. And the second note said that he was going to be the first player to jump straight from high school to professional basketball, which, again, seemed highly unlikely. Nobody was talking about that happening at the time. Nobody saw that coming just a year later. But remarkably, it came to fruition. And then he had maybe his Most famous in 1983, when the 76ers were going in the playoffs and his coach, Billy Cunningham, asked him what he thought of the, of the, the. Of the playoffs. And Moses family said, fo. Fo. Foe, meaning that the 76ers were going to win. You had to win three series to win the championship, and you had to win four games in each series. And he was predicting that they were going to win. They were going to sweep all three series and win. Win the championship, which had never been done before. And they didn't quite get there. They came close, though. They came one game short. They lost one game in, in the, in the, in the, in the playoffs. And so that prediction came just short, but he had a few of these incredible, highly unlikely predictions that came true.

[B]

Hence the, the name Profit.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And what was he like as an individual? I mean, I know you did your research to compile it, to insert it all in the book.

[C]

Yeah, I loved finding out about him as an individual because he was notoriously gruff with the media, standoffish. He never let anybody get to know him. You know, I talked to a number of sports writers who covered him regularly, and they all said they also didn't know that they didn't know him. He, he, he. He put up a wall that was there at all times. And so I liked. And, you know, because there wasn't much known about him, a lot of misconceptions that were formed about him that, that he wasn't very intelligent, that he had no personality, things like that, because he didn't reveal those aspects of himself. But what I discovered was a man who, number one, was very intelligent both on the court and off, had a great sense of humor, loved to play pranks on his teammates in the locker room, that kind of thing. And, and was a wonderful teammate, very supportive teammate and friend. He served as a mentor to countless players, most notably Charles Barkley and Akeem Olajuwon, but many, many others. And so there, there was a lot to this somewhat mysterious man.

[B]

And why did you choose him to write about? Because. To put together a book. I know I help authors write and become bestsellers. That's my, my business. And as a book publicist and they. There's so much work to do this and to write a biography not authorized because he's not alive anymore, but to write a biography is an immense amount of work. It's so much easier to pop out a nonfiction book, you know, but to write something like this is a passion project, I would imagine.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. You know, it took over two years. And I interviewed 250something, you know, subjects about Moses. And it was definitely a lot of work and a lot of, a lot very time consuming for me. You know, the, I think the impetus behind it was, you know, something you said early on was one of the most underappreciated athletes in really, in any sport. He had this remarkable career. One of the all time great players. He's on a short list. There's only nine players in NBA history to win three or more MVP awards. He's on that list.

The accolades go on and on, and yet nobody talks about him anymore. Nobody mentions him among the greats. And I felt between his incredible career and the fact that he was a trailblazer, the first guy to go straight from high school, the pros, there were a lot of, there was a lot to his story and I wanted to bring it to light, particularly for younger generations who, who didn't get to see him play and have no idea how great he was.

[B]

Did you get to reach out to Charles Barkley or Akeem Olajuwon to get their input?

[C]

So, yes, I wasn't able to get in touch with Charles. I did speak to Akeem, had a great conversation with him, which was extremely helpful. He was a great interview. The nice thing about Barclay is Barkley likes to talk. And so he's spoken on the record many times about his relationship with Moses. He, he, he's repeatedly said Moses is the one person most responsible for his success in the NBA because he told. I heard that hard.

[B]

I heard that. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

And well, you know, you get, you have other ways. You know, Moses actually delivered a eulogy. I'm sorry, Charles delivered a eulogy at Moses's funeral. And one of Moses's closest friends sent me a DVD of the funeral. And so.

I got, you know, I got a tremendous insight from that, from watching Charles eulogy. The tricky part about that was finding a place to play my dvd because nobody has DVD players anymore. Right.

[B]

You've got to go. Yeah, I think you have to buy one and hopefully and maybe even use to get it.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. I ended up going to, you know, I asked a bunch of friends and neighbors. Nobody had it. I ended up going to, I live in Austin, Texas. I went to the Austin public library, had DVDs for, for, for you. So thank God for the public library.

[B]

I was going to recommend a museum as a backup. Have you heard of a fax machine? Oh my gosh. Telex.

[C]

Oh, right.

[B]

That's funny. Yeah. Not even that. I, I, Well, Paul As I mentioned, I saw the 67 Lakers play with some great icons. That was my first basketball game. I just gave away my age. It's not young, but the way that we communicated back then, phones that went into the wall with a long cord and we dialed and then push buttons came around, I thought that was the greatest thing, you know. But in terms of innovation, it's, it's, it's great. And we use cassettes and then it went to eight tracks, you know, or eight tracks, then turned to cassettes and then it came to CDs and then DVDs, you know. Oh, it's. Now we're in a digital world. It's great.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And why did you choose Moses Malone? I mean, here you're, you've got this deep background as a sports analyst, a sports writer. Tell us a little bit about Paul. What, what motivated you? Were you a basketball player yourself?

[C]

I played in high school. You know, I played for my high school team and never played beyond that except for, you know, just fun pickup games with friends, stuff like that. But, yeah, but I've always, I've always loved the game since, since a young age. I grew up in New York, so it was. Loved the Knicks and, and college basketball is huge in New York. St. John's was a big program at the time. But you. Big east basketball was. Big east basketball was king in, in the 80s and the early 90s when I was growing up. And.

And so I, I would go to Madison Square Garden sometimes to watch the Knicks play or the, oh, cool. St. John's or the big east tournament. And, and so, yeah, basketball since, you know, I was seven, eight years old, I've loved the game.

[B]

It was just ingrained in you.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

You know, you mentioned you played in high school. I played high school volleyball and I was pretty good then. I went to first before I graduated from usc, University of Southern California, but I went to a junior college first so I could play volleyball. It was Santa Monica City College and it was a whole different level than high school. Oh my gosh. All I did was get splinters on my butt. I wasn't close to being good enough to be starting much less. I, I think they threw me in when the game was away, just there as a back row person. But did you try out in college or was that just too much?

[C]

I didn't even try. You know, I went to University of Michigan, which is a, you know, a big time program. Right? Big time division one program. And I was, you know, I was a six foot White boy who couldn't jump that high. And it just.

[B]

Same here. I'm a six foot white boy and I, and you. And I was short for volley.

[C]

Yeah, I just, I just, you know, high school was, was my, that was it. I wasn't going any further.

[B]

You reached your ceiling and enjoyed.

[C]

Okay, so I started, so I started writing. Right.

[B]

So I can relate. You gotta pivot or, or, or get into misery. Yeah, yeah. Change that reality. I think we could get in trouble saying, oh, we're a white boy.

[C]

But it's.

[B]

Hey, it's, it's a positive. It's a positive.

[C]

White men, white men can't jump, right? That's.

[B]

Well, I could jump, but I just didn't have the talent. And the height, it does matter. Unless you're somebody like a Mugsy Balone. Or what was this?

[C]

Mugsy Bogs.

[B]

Mugsy Bogues. That's it. Yeah. Or what was the other one? There was another one that was short. That was incredible.

[C]

Spud Web.

[B]

Spud Web, yes.

[C]

Yeah. You know, I talk, I, I talked to Mugsy for my book. Mugsy and Moses were good friends.

[B]

Oh, how about that?

[C]

Mutt and Jeff, they played together. Here's a great image for you. You mentioned Mugsy. Do you remember Manute Bowl?

[B]

Yes, of course.

[C]

He was even 10 foot 7. He was 7 foot 7 and Mugsy was 5 3. And Mugsy, Manute and Moses were all teammates with Washington Bullets. And the three of them used to go out to dinner together and go to the clubs together and they were all. There was like, they were like a threesome. And I just, I love, I just, I crack up every time I think of the imagery of five foot three, you know, Mugsy and 610 Moses and 77. Manute, you know, walking into the club together, had to be quite tall, taller.

[B]

Oh my God, gigantic. And it is Manute still alive?

[C]

No, Manute Manute passed away.

[B]

That's what I thought. Okay, so what did Mugsy have to say about.

Moses?

[C]

Mugsy love Moses. Mugsy, you know, he was one of those people Moses had, was just kind of a natural mentor. He really liked to look out for the young guys. And so Muggsy, you know, Muggsy was a rookie when he was teammates with Moses and he wasn't playing much his rookie year. And Moses kind of kept his head up and you know, I think in some ways kind of taught him how to be professional, how to take care of his body and how to take care of his money and, and how to, you know, keep working Hard and keep his head up when things weren't going his way. And so Muggsy was, was very grateful because he was kind of like, here's Moses Malone, this three, three time MVP award winner, you know, this perennial all Star. And, and what does he care about little old me? You know, the, the, this, this rookie on the team. But, but he did, he took an interest in him and, and looked out for him.

[B]

What was unique about, I mean, give me some numbers. It was the, the multiple MVPs, which are incredible. I mean he, he oftentimes gets confused with Carl Malone. But they're not related, are they?

[C]

No, they're not. No. Yeah. And I, the craziest, the craziest number is. So when you take Moses started his career in the aba and when you take. Oh sure, NBA numbers, you combine them. He is the greatest offensive rebounder of all time by. And such. To show you how much, how, by what an enormous margin. So Moses had like around 7, 300 offensive rebounds for his career. Number two is Artis Gilmore with about 4800. The difference between Moses at number one and Artis Gilmore at number two is about the same as the difference between Artis gilmore at number two and the 79th all time offensive rebounder. That's how far Moses is ahead of the field, ahead of everyone else in offensive rebounds, which is just staggering.

[B]

There's nobody even close. I mean, yeah, you say the. So he's up here, he's up here. And then the rest start with Artist Gilmore and then they're all part of a cluster. It sounds like.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Wow. I thought it would have been Dennis Rodman, but not even.

[C]

Yeah, Rodman's up there. He's up there on the list, but he's not, he's not in, he's not anywhere near that territory.

[B]

And why do you think he was dissed? Was he, did he get inducted into the hall of Fame?

[C]

Yeah, he did. He did.

It's, it's interesting. It's, you know, I've, I put a lot of thought into that. Why isn't he talked about more, you know, and I think there are a few reasons. I think one is that there was no, there was no flash to Moses game. You know, he didn't soar through the air like a Michael Jordan or. He wasn't a wizard with the ball like Magic Johnson.

His greatest skill was offensive rebounding. His greatest attribute was his relentless work ethic. And I don't think that translated to highlight reels the way that some of the other star Players of his time did okay. And I, I think, you know, he moved around a lot. He played at a time when superstars, most superstars spent their whole career with one or two teams. He ended up playing for many teams across two leagues over his 21 year career. And so I think, I think place is important for legacy. I think you need a home where you need a team where that people associate you with or, you know, and a fan base that celebrates you and, and loves you. And Moses Number is retired in Houston and Philadelphia, so he is respected. He's. He's best known for his years in Philly because he won a championship there, but he was only there for four years. So he's not as associated with the city or loved there the way that say.

Dr. J or Allen Iverson are, both of whom spent a decade in Philly.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I think he wasn't any one placed long enough. And I think the last reason he's not talked about as much is because Moses didn't give a damn about being talked about. He had no interest in being famous. He thought it was nonsense. He's probably right. But he, as I mentioned, he was gruff with the media. You know, and this is at a time before the Internet, before social media. It was very much the sports writers created the mythology around our athletes. And as I mentioned, I talked to a lot of the guys who covered him regularly and none of them got to know him. Some of them flat out disliked him because they found him rude. And so I think that affected the way he was portrayed then and the way he's remembered and portrayed now. I think because of all that too, because he was gruff, because there was no flash to him. He had a bit of a speech impediment. He didn't get the kind of endorsement deals that.

[B]

There you go.

[C]

With a player of his accomplishments.

[B]

It's all marketing, isn't it? There was no on his stake and.

[C]

Right, exactly. And you know, endorsements, they, they present you, they put you in people's living rooms in a different light. Right. And they kind of embed you in the culture on a deeper level. And he never got that kind of access. And so I think for all those reasons, he's just kind of been forgotten a little bit.

[B]

He wasn't literate well. And if there was no flash to his game, like you mentioned, this is a marketing lesson in life, this is a business lesson also because he was the brand, he was his own personal brand and he didn't do anything distinct. I mean, the numbers obviously are incredibly Impressive. And he's a Hall of Famer, yet. You are so correct. And I'm a basketball fan. Not to the degree that you are. You're really immersed in it, but I'm a fan. And the first thing, when you mentioned Malone, you default to Karl Malone in my mind. And he was a little. I think he came after Moses, didn't he?

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And Karl Malone wasn't necessarily very friendly either. So it was just neither one. Neither of them was media friendly. Magic Johnson had that gigantic grill smile.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Larry Bird was considered rude, but he got a lot of media attention. And, you know, there are other reasons he was marketable, but I think there's.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Something to be said about. A person has got all the great skills, but if you don't wrap your package well, you're going to be a forgotten package.

[C]

Yeah. And. And there have been other guys like that. I mean, I think Tim Duncan was like that. You know, Tim Duncan is. He. He won. What do you. But he's not personal, you know, and as, as time, as time passes, you're going to hear about him less and less because he didn't. He didn't get those kind of commercials, endorsement deals either. He just had no interest in it. He had no, you know, he had no interest in, in, in the fame. Tim Duncan or, or Moses Malone. And I mean, I think they. I think they left a lot of money on the table because of that, but I think they. I think they would both probably tell you that they're okay with that.

[B]

Well, they made money in there. But yes, yes, to a personality like Shaq, who's endorsing every product and pocketing his millions, it says, right, he's a brand icon and, and beloved around the world. So what about Moses personal life? Did he tell us about that?

[C]

Yeah. So Moses, he got married when he was pretty young, in his early 20s. He had two children, and he ended up getting divorced. He was married for about 10 years. Moses, as I say in the book, Moses weaknesses, women. He didn't drink. He didn't drink. He didn't. He didn't smoke cigarettes. He didn't do any drugs. None of that. But he loved women. And on the road, at home, whatever it was, he was constantly getting after women. And. And that led to his divorce. And then later in life, he had a. He had a child with a. A woman he was in a relationship with. He didn't marry her, but they were together for many years. And, and, and that youngest son was just six years old when Moses passed But yeah, I think. I think he struggled a little with that and that. He just couldn't.

You know, keep it in his pants, so to speak.

[B]

Well, you're a sports icon. Six foot ten, handsome man, lots of money. Lots of money.

[C]

That's.

[B]

That's a magnet for women.

[C]

And it's hard. It's a. It's a magnet. And there's also such opportunity because you're on the road all the time, right? And you're on the road and you come back at night and there are beautiful women hanging out in the hotel lobby just there for the. For the taking. And it's, it's, you know, and your wife's not there, and maybe you miss your wife and you're lonely because you're on the road for a couple weeks or whatever it is. And so, yes, there's, there's plenty of. Plenty of opportunity.

[B]

And he did what he did and he had that and that. And there were consequences. Did he die? Did he die with any money or did he die broke?

[C]

No, he had a lot of money. He was. There are tons of stories about him being cheap.

And. But no, he. He invested well. He took very good care of his money. I think he had good people. You know, it's hard because he grew up extremely poor. Extremely poor. And then he. And then went straight from high school to the, to the pros. And so he went from having nothing to having a lot very quickly. And a lot of people can't handle that.

[B]

A lot of people, no, they don't. They implode.

[C]

Yeah, they don't. They don't know. They have no idea how to invest money because they've never had money before. And even you. And, you know, you know, I grew up middle class. If I had become rich overnight, my, you know, my father's a cpa. He's savvy enough and, and had new enough people that we would have invested wisely. But someone like Moses didn't have those kind of people around him. You know, his family, his. All of his family, his extended family is all very poor. They didn't have any kind of business background. But I think he. He. He was fortunate in that I think he was maybe mature beyond his years and, and wise enough to. To be stingy with his money. And he was fortunate to find a couple agents at a very young age who really looked out for him and steered him in the right direction, and he was wise enough to trust them and listen to them and, and yeah, so he, he had a. He had a really nice nest egg when he, when he retired and, and you know, had a, had a good amount when he, when he died.

[B]

Okay. So that he was able to take care of his family. Because you hear those, yeah, these, these athletes that make millions and then you read about them in bankruptcy court.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, a lot of them, it's hard. And I've talked to guys like that who, you know, they come up with, particularly guys who come up with nothing and then they make it and it's like, you know, they look back and well, their parent, not just their parents, but their siblings, their cousins, their best friends growing up are still living in the projects and you want to help them. But all of a sudden you have 25 family members and friends on the payroll, you know, who you're paying rent for, all these people and it can disappear fast. Sometimes, you know, sometimes with very, with very, you know, yes, there are guys who go out and will, will just spend way above their means on, on ridiculous luxury items. That happens. And sometimes I think sometimes it's actually very well intentioned and they're just not savvy enough to know, oh, I can't take care of all these people. It's going to catch up to me and, and they lose it. But yeah, you, you hear people who make, you know, because the money's gotten so much greater. You know, Moses retired in 95.

Guys who, you know, played in the 90s or 2000s or 2010s who, who made a lot more money than he did just because the money got so much higher. Who, who have gone bankrupt, you know, a lot of them guys who made 70, 80 million dollars in their careers who were broke.

[B]

Yeah, that's that. Well, he sounds like a. He sound. Sounds like he was very smart. He may. Might not have been educated the way that other people are or were that entered after college, like Magic Johnson, invested wisely in Shaq and some of these others value. He had street smarts. And he also saw and was probably mentored by some NBA greats before him who were responsible financially, who were his mentors.

[C]

Yeah, you know, guys when he first came in the, in the league, it was guys like not huge names, guys like Ron Boone, Gerald Govan, Wally Jones. Just guys who, veterans, you know, guys who were in their 30s then, who, who'd been around for a long time. And, and, and they did, they pulled them aside. It was simple things, you know, like, hey, this is how you tip in a restaurant. You know, because he never, he never ate in a restaurant before. You know, this is how you dress in a league. This is where you get your clothes. This is, watch out for these women who are going to be hanging around the hotel lobby that want to get.

[B]

Pregnant and get a. Yeah.

[C]

And, and, and just how this, this is how you take care of your body. This is how you save your money. You know, you can't, you can't go out till three in the morning the night before a game. You need, you need guys around like, like that around. And it doesn't have to be, you know, a superstar. It could just be, you know, just a, a veteran on the team who's well respected and has just been around for a long time.

[B]

You have a podcast yourself, Paul. Tell us about that.

[C]

Yeah, it's called New Books in Sports. It's kind of part of the New Books network. They have pot, they have channels for all, you know, new books in philosophy, new books in psychology, new books in fiction, all, all across the board. And I really enjoy it because I'm, I'm a writer. I write books. So I, I love talking to other sports writers about their books and, and I enjoy giving them a platform to, you know, to, to promote their, their work. And I've met a lot of, you know, good writers by doing it, and it's great. You know, I, I, I love reading, I love reading sports books. So it's fun to, to talk to the authors and sometimes just to commiserate about the business a little bit and, and what we've been through or our experiences writing the books. And so I enjoy that very much.

[B]

Me too. I can relate to it. It's, it's not an easy field to make money, especially, you know, passion to profits. Sometimes there's a big gap.

[C]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[B]

And, oh, when are you getting a day job? I'm sure, so.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. How long have you been a podcaster?

[C]

Oh, man, maybe six, seven years now.

[B]

Okay, any tips to share with people that may be thinking about podcasting or jumping in? Because when I mentioned passion to profits, you smiled and your head moved. And is that, is that, is there a way to do that and make money? I mean, maybe your dad was talking in the back of your head. Being the cpa, you got a profit. You got a double underline.

[C]

My dad's talking in the back of my head a lot. A lot.

Yeah. No, I don't, I mean, I suppose there is. I don't make any money off the podcast.

[B]

Okay. So it is a passion project.

[C]

It's totally a passion project.

Yeah. I, I just enjoy doing it, you know, if you can make money off a podcast, you know, God bless you.

[B]

Well, do you. Has it led to great connections? Has it opened doors that normally wouldn't be open? I mean, it's journalism, isn't it?

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And then, you know, even when my book came out, as I reached out to people I've had on the podcast, and some. Some of those people helped promote it, a couple of them wrote blurbs for the back of the book. You know, one guy's doing an article for the. The newspaper he writes, you know, a writer that I. I had on my podcast. So it's definitely been beneficial, just, you know, networking from a networking standpoint.

[B]

And I'm curious about Charles Barkley. Did he. Was he impossible to get a hold of or. He declined. What was the deal?

[C]

I never got an official decline. I just couldn't. I just couldn't get to him. You know, these. These. It's almost like the bigger the name, the more people you have to go through to get to them.

[B]

The Gate Coopers.

[C]

But.

[B]

But you could get to his mentor.

[C]

Yeah, I just. I just couldn't get to him. Like, you know, try through tnt, which. Where he worked until, you know, very recently and.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Couldn't get through there. And, you know, the teams he played for to reach out to his agent, I just couldn't. I don't know. I think, you know, I think someone like him, I think he probably gets so many interview requests that it's just, you know, overwhelming. Yeah. I don't know if he does any really, or very. Or he's very selective about the ones he does, but I don't know that. I have no idea what the screening process is like. I have no idea, you know, because for my. From my standpoint, I'm like, you know, he loved Moses.

[B]

Right. That's what I think. That would be an easy one.

[C]

Right. He called. He called Moses Dad. He literally called him dad.

[B]

Are you the only one on him.

[C]

I'm sorry?

[B]

Are you the only one that wrote a biography?

[C]

Yeah, yeah, I'm the only one. It's never been written before. And so. Yeah. So I'm just like, get this in front. Just let him know. Let. You know, let. I don't know that he ever. I think there's a good chance he never was informed by anybody by. By the gatekeepers that I was writing this book, you know, so that's my bet, Paul. Yeah. You know, like. Like I said, Akeem was a key. He was a mentor. Akeem. And Akeem came on the phone and he said, I'll never forget. I said, akeem, thank you for taking the time to talk to me about Moses. And he said. He said, no, thank you. It's an honor. It is my honor to talk to you about Moses. And I was like, whoa, okay, well.

[B]

What about Akeem I'm trying to help with. Because, you know, there hasn't been anybody that haven't been able to get a hold of when found the right person to open the door.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

What about Moses or Hakeem opening the door?

[C]

That's possible. I hadn't. I hadn't even thought to go down that path.

[B]

Well, maybe that's good that we're having a talk, because you learn things there. But that would be. There's the legitimizer right there of Hakeem. He would take Hakeem's call. I would reach out to Hakeem and say, hey, man, I want to get a hold of Charles. He's integral to. To popularize the book for our. For your mentor and all this. Can you make the intro for me?

[C]

That's a good idea.

[B]

He'll do it. I've never found a door that I couldn't open. I just had to find the right one with the right key.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah, you're right.

[B]

And I think he. He's a potential good key with a nice fit for you, Paul.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because he's. My gosh, I'm trying to help you blow up your book, and I appreciate it. Yeah. And if he gets behind it, man, you know, New York Times, maybe not. You know, that's a different play. And that's, you know, that's a whole different algorithm, as you probably know. I mean, I work as a book publicist, as I mentioned, so I know the game. But in terms of sales and recognition for your hard work. Knock on the right doors.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Agents, unless there's money in it, what's their incentive? But you're finding the passion here with Hakeem, and he'll do it out of emotion.

[C]

Right.

[B]

There isn't a dollar dangling. And I think agents screw up probably more deals than they make opportunities for. I know this because I was married to a lawyer, and she screwed up every deal she got involved in with me.

It was like everybody got pissed off. And then there was. There ended up being no deal, you know?

[C]

Yeah. That's funny. Yeah.

[B]

Well, Paul, hey, you've been a great guest. Show us your book again.

[C]

Yeah. There we go. Moses Malone, The Life of a basketball Prophet.

[B]

And where can they procure it?

[C]

You know, most bookstores.

[B]

Oh, so it is in bookstores. Oh, good.

[C]

Is it bookstores? Yeah. And then, you know, Amazon and barnes and noble.com and all that stuff.

[B]

Did you, did you go through a publisher?

[C]

Yes, it's Universe, University of Nebraska Press, they're called.

[B]

Yeah, University of Nebraska Press. I'd never heard of them. Yeah, but they, yeah, it's not easy.

[C]

They do a lot of sports books.

[B]

It's not easy to get into bookstores. I mean. Yeah, yeah, it's just, you know, independent publishers have a little bit of a challenge there.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

So you went through a publisher. Oh, that was smart. Well, hey, bud, you've been a great guest. Thank you so much for your time today and I wish you the best of luck. And I, I, I, I want to hear about how you got a hold of Charles Barkley.

[C]

And I, I will, I, if I get him, I promise you I will get back to you and let you know.

[B]

All right, Paul. Well, thank you for your time.

[C]

Thanks for having me on, Mitch. I really enjoyed it.

[A]

Thanks for tuning into the Amazing Authorities podcast. If today's episode inspired you, take a moment to subscribe, rate and leave a review. It helps more experts like you rise to the top for behind the scenes access and free resources to boost your authority. Head to mitchcarson. Com. Until next time, stay amazing.