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The Amazing Authorities Podcast
Quiet Power, Big Impact — Serena Low on Leading as an Introvert, Reinvention, and Building Safe Community Spaces
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- [00:02]
A
Welcome to the Amazing Authorities podcast, where game changers, visionaries and category leaders share how they built their brands, platforms and global influence. Your host is Mitch Carson, international speaker, media strategist, and creator of the Instant Authority system. If you're ready to learn from those who've done it and want to become the go to expert in your space, you're in the right place. Serena Low is here today. She is a Singaporean now based in Melbourne, Australia. She was just back there. She has her own podcast. She's written a book. She's known as the Quiet Warrior because she's an introverted person by nature and she's going to illuminate us about how to stand out in an extroverted world. Welcome to the Amazing Authorities podcast today, Serena.
- [01:01]
B
Thank you, Mitch. Thank you for having me.
- [01:04]
A
And I'm going to make a corny joke, if I may. Serena Low will stand high above the rest of what she's going to share today on this podcast. Sorry, I couldn't resist.
- [01:16]
B
I had to start.
- [01:19]
A
I had to start with something corny to break the ice. So people are listening to you. So the first question I have to ask is, how did a Singaporean who comes from this utopian environment, you know, the. The vision of Lee Kuan Yew leave Singapore, which is where so many people want to live? It's very difficult to become a permanent resident in Singapore. And now you reside in Australia. I got to start there because I'm always curious why you would leave this incredible nest where you can't chew gum and walk down the street.
- [01:58]
B
You can walk down the street and you. Well, maybe, maybe the chewing gum, just do it privately, but that's a really good question. It doesn't always have to be something big that pushes you to leave somewhere that's comfortable. Sometimes it's also a tug that you feel in your soul. You know you're comfortable, you know you're safe. But it's that very comfort and safety that makes you restless, that makes you wonder, I wonder what else is out there for me that I don't know about yet.
- [02:34]
A
Did you go to college there? Is that. What, did you go go to attend university, or was it some other reason?
- [02:41]
B
Yes, I did university in Singapore. I went to law school. I was also a lawyer for 11 years before we made the move to Australia.
- [02:52]
A
In Singapore, you were.
- [02:54]
B
Okay.
- [02:55]
A
Okay. And are you practicing law at all in Australia?
- [03:00]
B
No. No.
- [03:02]
A
Well, what do you do today? What is the Quiet Warrior cover?
- [03:06]
B
The Quiet Warrior does many things. So the reason I call it the Quiet Warrior is because for those of us who've always been introverts, always been quiet achievers, we're very used to being in the background, on the fringes of conversations, sort of observing from the sidelines, but not really directly participating. And the feedback, always from teachers to bosses, is that you need to speak up more, you need to be more engaged in group discussions. And that is the general struggle for, for the quiet Achievers. And it's not that they have nothing to say, it's that they are very selective about who they say it to, when they say it, the context, and they consider a lot of different factors. So what can happen is that in the corporate sense, in the corporate culture, where it tends to be more extrovert, biased, and you are noticed for speaking out and for being loud and for being quick on your feet and, you know, making things up as you go, the quiet achiever can get relegated to the fringes and get unnoticed. So my invitation and my challenge to anyone who is introverted or who identifies as a quiet achiever is that sometimes, even though you are by nature that quiet person, there are times when you have to step up. You have to rise to the occasion. You have to be that one who speaks up, who takes action and who leads. And you can't do that by saying, I an introvert. So I can't do public speaking, I'm an introvert, and I can't do networking. I'm an introvert, therefore I can't do sales. Don't ask me to do any of those things. You have to be able to say, I don't like doing it, but I will do my best. I will bring my quiet strengths and turn the situation around and be that person that can galvanize other people in my own way. I won't do it the noisy, loud way. I will do it quietly, but it will be effective. And that's what the quiet war is about.
- [05:03]
A
Being a velvet hammer, if you want.
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B
To put it that way.
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A
Well, it's a way. I'm. I've been accused. Well, because of the. Well, it's not a good name, but I'll. I'll bring it up. Donald Trump is the most bombastic leader that has ever held the White House. And he's an extreme example of a native New Yorker, very bombastic, loud American. And that label is hard to disband. The first time I spoke in Australia, the promoter, it was actually Melbourne. My very first time I spoke in Melbourne, at the hotel there, long flight from la, where I was living and had to address this Australian crowd of about 300 people in the audience.
- [05:55]
B
And.
- [05:55]
A
And the promoter, a man named Mal Emery, said to me, mitch, how are you going to overcome the fact that they hate you? Said, hate me? Why do they hate me? I'm. I'm American. We're allies. You know, we fought in wars together and all this. Why do they hate me? I love Crocodile Dundee and, you know, Paul Hogan and, you know, and all the other. Why I like kangaroos. He said, because of your politics, mate. I said, politics? First of all, I don't want a mate. I'm straight. But I. I said, look, politics. I have nothing to do with politics. He says, well, how are you going to break the ice, mate? I said, to the best of my ability. And sometimes, you know, being bombastic can backfire. And had I come out maybe a little bit calmer, like the way you're. You're describing it would have worked. But I. I first. I had my first standing ovation. And you'll appreciate this, Serena, as a public. Public speaker yourself, I had a standing ovation before I began my speech and presentation, because I came out and said, before I begin, I want you to know I did not vote for George W. Bush because it had just invaded Iraq at that time, and Australia had to send its troops in support as. As allied forces. Oh, and that was a banner day for sales because I use that. That technique being a little bit bombastic. So as a. As a public speaker yourself, who comes from an introverted, let's say, background or comfort zone, how did you break out of that?
- [07:32]
B
I wouldn't use the phrase break out of that because that sounds as though I was confined in some kind of box and had to fight my way out. I think the way I would phrase it would be more that I gradually expanded my comfort zone.
- [07:46]
A
I like that. Okay, I'll reframe that. How did you expand your comfort zone to be where you are today, Serena?
- [07:56]
B
One difficult decision at a time, one uncomfortable step at a time. So it took a very long time, in my case, many, many years, because each time you put left foot out, the introvert, there is that sense of this doesn't feel safe. What is going to happen next? I can't predict it. There's so much uncertainty. And the thing to understand is that with introverts and quiet achievers, they're very much in their heads. They like to plan ahead. They love the certainty, the structure, the order. They want to be able to predict things. And when you take that away because you are expanding your Comfort zone and doing things you haven't done before, even though someone can hand you a blueprint, it's not necessarily going to work the same way for you. Somebody's going to give you that five steps that you know, that formula success formula and so on. And you can go to all these conferences and read all the books, but until you actually do it yourself and figure out and then deal with the emotions along each step of the way and find a way to make peace with that discomfort of figuring out things. Because you are used to being very competent, consciously competent, and now you're becoming consciously incompetent. And that gap is a huge one. So you can hang in there long enough and be comfortable with the uncomfortable to the point that it feels safe and it's no longer triggering you in that way and you can make it to the next step and the next step. Then eventually you get to a place where you're much more comfortable and confident and competent than you were before.
- [09:29]
A
Now you talk about conscious, let's talk about unconscious. We'll probably go a little deeper than you had anticipated for this. Did you address that? And if so, how? Because I have been dictate the contrast. Yeah.
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B
Yes, because you're right. That is actually where the problem lies. It's beneath the level of what we are aware of on a day to day level. It's those scripts, it's those patterns, it's the, the way of behaving and the way we respond to certain things. And a lot of it is unconscious because we just absorbed it as children. We watched our parents, we watched other adults in our lives react a certain way to a certain kind of situation. And we just absorbed that. We picked it up, we thought that's how it is, that's how it's meant to be done. And so we repeat it, we mirror it back. And then at some point in adulthood, perhaps that doesn't sit so well with us, or we notice that other people are doing it differently, or something in us says, I don't like this way of being, I'm different, I'm wired differently. And then there is that internal conflict, that sense of if I let go of that, then does that mean I no longer belong in the family? And that is actually a more a deeper concern that a lot of us realize we still want to belong. We still want to feel we are part of the family, part of the tribe. We don't want that. That sense of being cast out, of being the black sheep, of being that outlier, because that's where There is no safety. That's where you're out on your own. And that's a very lonely and isolating and very frightening feeling until you develop some legs and some wings.
- [11:07]
A
Well, let me ask this. You left a very safe environment. Being Singaporean X number of years ago, before you made the life change to move to Australia. Was that uncomfortable? Did you have to address some major changes? Because Singapore is a whole different animal. I've spent a lot of time there, probably a year of my life in total. All the events that I produce there, totally different than Australia. Well, I don't need to tell you that you're more of the expert in both than I am. What, how did you prepare yourself and did you come out of your or. Break? Not break. Okay, I'll. I'll carefully choose my words. Did you enable yourself to grow and expand little by little when you went to Australia or had you started the process when you were working in Singapore?
- [11:59]
B
I actually compressed my two biggest life changes into a period of two years. So first I let go of being a lawyer, which itself triggered its own identity crisis.
- [12:09]
A
Oh, bow.
- [12:10]
B
I took some months to process. I was also recovering from a miscarriage at the time. So that was another life transition. So in the middle of all that thing, we were offered the chance to become permanent residents. We were, we applied on the skilled migrant visa and we got it. And then there was that other exciting chapter opening up. Now we've got this, you know, do we say yes? Do we say yes right away? Then straight away the self doubt sets in. Oh, maybe it's too hard, maybe it's too late. You know, maybe we should wait. And by that time, I think by the time that happened, I was expecting my second child. And so we thought, well then should we just wait till we've had this baby, have it in Singapore and then we will move. And it was just because it came so suddenly. There was a lot to consider. And when you're very comfortable where you are, there's this lethargy that sets in. You really don't want to move, you don't want to uproot yourself. You've got a. You know, my husband was doing really well in his career and that would have been very disruptive to just uproot and go. And then what was happened would happen to the apartment, you know, what about our friends, our family? How. So many considerations. Obviously, yes, it was just, it just felt like a very huge decision to make. What if it doesn't work out? What if we have to come back and all the rest of it. And in the middle of all that, what actually pushed us out of that comfortable nest and made us decide one way or the other was a phone call. And this phone call was from a good friend, a classmate who was already working in Melbourne. And we had been at uni together. And he said to me, God has already given you the visa. What else are you waiting for?
- [13:58]
A
Wow. Well, that's powerful.
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B
That was powerful. Yes.
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A
Now, is your husband a lawyer or was he a lawyer as well?
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B
No, he's not a lawyer. He's in the it.
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A
Okay. So had you secured employment or a way to make money to live? And I mean, eating is important, especially if you have children.
- [14:18]
B
Yes, yes. Well, we. I didn't have employment at the time because I was still figuring things out. And also I was not well with my pregnancy. He was, he was employed and he was also applying for work, but hadn't heard back about anything because as you know, you are given priority when you are local. You need to have two years local experience. And how do you become local if you're not there?
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A
It's that catch 20, isn't it? Yes.
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B
That is the thing for every new migrant, the situation. So we had to. So we decided, all right, I think that's our sign. So we bought our one way tickets and we packed up as best as we could with two cases. And my young. Yeah, my older daughter was four at the time.
- [15:02]
A
And do you have more kids?
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B
Well, I was expecting my second one at the time.
- [15:09]
A
So that child was birthed in, in.
- [15:11]
B
Australia a few months after we arrived. Yes.
- [15:14]
A
Okay. Wow. All right, so you have an Australian and a Singaporean, but everybody living in us in Australia. Now. Do you regret the move or, or have you. Are you now Australian?
- [15:27]
B
We are now Australian. I don't regret the move, but I have to say we just celebrated Singapore's 60th National Day over the weekend. And when I watch the National Day Parade, you know, even on YouTube, some feelings will still come up.
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A
Of course.
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B
Songs will still, you know, bring tears to the eyes and you just miss all that, that being there, being with your people. And I don't think that feeling ever goes away. And I think that's a beautiful thing to be able to say. I belong in two countries. I belong in two worlds.
- [15:56]
A
No, I share that sentiment because I live in Thailand. I live in Jomtien beach, which is about two hours outside of Bangkok. I love my life here today, but I'll always be American. Fourth of July was a celebrated day for me. One I'm proud of all. I'll never not do that. I was just back in America last week for two weeks, but I couldn't wait to come back here, you know, so I'm. That's why I can relate to it. I left in 2010. Not quite as long as you, but enough time. You know, 15 years ago, I said goodbye to American taxes, et cetera, et cetera. And now in Australia. So tell us about your book. You're an author, and can we see your book suddenly?
- [16:42]
B
So it's called the Hero Within.
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A
Can you push it a little forward? Because we're a little blurred backward.
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B
I had the angle perfect just now.
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A
There. Now there it is. Okay, okay, now I see.
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B
So it's called the Hero Within. Reinvent your life one new chapter at a time.
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A
Okay, good.
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B
And we know this is a book about overcoming adversity. So it's made up of. It's a collection of interviews I did with people around the world who responded when I put out a social media call about sharing their story of overcoming adversity. So anything, you know, the smallest, the biggest, the most devastating, including stories that, you know, when I read them, I asked the author, are you sure you want me to share that? Because some of them were so raw, so vulnerable, so deeply. I felt like I was intruding in someone's world. You know that feeling?
- [17:41]
A
Sure.
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B
And. And they said, yes. You know, if it helps one person, then I'm happy to share it. And it's with that sense of, you know, awe at the resilience of the human spirit and the ability to rise above some very difficult situations. So there's abuse. There's, you know, there's grief and loss and addiction and all kinds of stories in there.
- [18:07]
A
Oh, okay. Well, I'm. I look forward to being able to buy it. Now. How is it available? Is it Kindle or is it on in Australian? Amazon or where?
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B
It's on Amazon? Yes. Which Amazon? Australia. Yeah.
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A
Australia. Is there a Kindle version?
- [18:27]
B
Yes, there is.
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A
Okay. Which is then purchased through the U.S. do you have an Audible version?
- [18:33]
B
No, not yet.
- [18:34]
A
Okay, that's one. Yeah. It's very valuable today because here we are doing a podcast. I would highly urge it because the consumption level. I live in the author space. I just took 27 authors through. I'm going to send you a copy of it because you're Singaporean. 27 Singaporeans. I took through the book writing process, ideation, and then I put all of their contributions in an anthology called the Amazing Authors of Singapore. Had I known you. Yeah. And it's, it's out there available. So if you want to take a look at it, I think you'll. Maybe you might even know some people. Singapore is so small. I'd be willing to bet you know quite a few people that are in the book.
- [19:16]
B
Oh, I'm looking forward to reading it. Yeah.
- [19:20]
A
So tell me where, how do you help people today? Because you're certainly entrenched. You're in Australia, this is your life. You're, you're there. You even speak like your Australian mate. So what, what, what do you do to help people today, Serena?
- [19:38]
B
I help in a few different ways. So I provide coaching and mentoring online, one on one or in small groups. I also have the Quiet Warrior podcast. I have my newsletter. I also have a meetup community which is quite unique because during COVID as you know, Melbourne was the most locked up city in the world. And I had this idea that perhaps we could use Zoom and meetup for social connection for introverts. And I thought, well, this is something to try for a project. And so I did. I started two communities. So they are introvert focused. Introverts around the world is one of them, and Quiet Women's Circle is the other one. And what they do is provide a safe online as well as in person experience for people who identify as introverts or even for people who are highly sensitive or people who would say they have social anxiety. And what we do is, you know, for in person events, we curate them very carefully so that when they come, even if it's their first time, they will feel warmly received, they will feel safe, they will feel they are with their own people. They will recognize everyone there, even if they've never met before. Because introverts have a certain vibe. We're just standing off to the side. We're not really looking at people directly. We're a little bit hesitant to talk. And all that is normalized within the community. The silence is encouraged. And so there's no pressure for people to talk. And I organize the events in such a way that I take into account also that people have. Some people will have sensory overwhelm, some people have a social battery that maybe goes for 90 minutes, maximum two hours. And I tell and I teach them how to advocate for themselves so that when they go to social gatherings, they won't feel, oh my gosh, I'm overwhelmed. What am I going to do? How am I going to last? Do I have to stay all the way to be polite? How do I exit? How do I extricate myself from this situation now that my battery is running down. So in this community, we make all these things, all these barriers are taken away and all these rules that we have had to conform to for social purposes are rewritten specifically with the introvert in mind. So it becomes very safe, very welcoming, and they come back again and again and they make friends and they are just. Just to witness the way they flourish because they feel safe. I think that's one of the best things I've done.
- [22:09]
A
You have mentioned safe quite a few times. Safe, comfort, slow, is what I'm able to deduce from what you shared to make that type of person who's maybe been in the background come out a little bit comfortably, slowly at their own pace is what it sounds like. Did you go to any public speaking courses to get you to become more comfortable out in public to, to. To blossom, or is. What did you do specifically?
- [22:39]
B
I didn't go to any causes. I basically threw myself into the deep end by running workshops from the beginning for sometimes, you know, maybe one or two people might show up, sometimes six people might show up, and they were all people I knew personally. And it just, it just started from there.
- [22:58]
A
So you just threw yourself in the deep end?
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B
I did. I thought, you know, the best way to experiment is to experiment on myself. It's no point my reading lots of books. I, I am a personal development junkie. I love going to all the conferences and I know the high that you get from being in the event. And I also know the crash that comes on Monday morning when the weekend is over. You're back to your normal life, but you haven't integrated a single thing because it was all in your head. It was all experiential only, but not yet integrated.
- [23:29]
A
100% agree. Yeah. And I'm sure we could share a lot of those guru people, and I've shared the stage with quite a few of them. And you learn a lot, you expand a little bit. But a rubber band rarely goes back to its original shape once you stretch it, but it's still a rubber band. Not until you break that pattern. So that's interesting. So you conduct workshops yourself now, these meetups is what you were talking about when you started your speaking. Was that the, Was that the recommendation? Just. Just get out there and do it.
- [24:01]
B
Just get up there and do it. Whatever form it takes, whatever channel. There's no best channel, there's no best format. It's what works for the people that you want to serve. And you can't know, until you put yourself out there and do it and then get some kind of response. And even if you don't get a response, that too is a response, because it tells you what people are not interested in.
- [24:20]
A
100%. No response is a response.
- [24:23]
B
Yes. And you have to be humble enough to swallow that, take that as part of the data, and keep going and not make it too personal. I think in the initial years when I was very emotionally attached to the numbers, to the. To the visible results, it was hard to keep going. But now that I'm not really chasing the numbers, I'm more about the impact and realizing that even if it's one person who is impacted, that one person has got their own circle that they are going to impact. And so you never really know how far your ripple effect goes. But if you don't start by planting that first seed, you're not going to get that tree.
- [25:03]
A
Love the metaphor. You have started a podcast since now, several years running. What have you done to grow your audience or you not pay attention to the numbers? Is it more of a. A branding tool? Is it something that's cathartic for your. Your personal development? Why do you podcast?
- [25:24]
B
The main reason I podcast is because I have a very quiet voice. I'm always told to speak up. My volume is by nature a very low volume. So when I speak one on one, that's okay. If I have to go to a networking event and make myself hurt against the background noise and against 100 people in the room with all that, that acoustic, you know, debris, it's very difficult. Some people have a voice that projects, and some people are trained for that. I happen to have a very quiet voice. So I thought, well, what can I do with a quiet voice besides writing, which I love doing as well? I guess I could go in front of a mic that amplifies my voice immediately and to many more people. So the podcast, to answer your question, serves as, yes, the branding tool, the visibility tool. It's also a great way to connect one on one, because people are listening, you know, one person at a time, in the midst of whatever else they are doing in their busy day. They could be driving, they could be at the gym, they could be doing some household chores. And they are listening because they want to grow, they want to learn something new. So I'm in their ear talking to them. And over time, we form a kind of connection, a kind of relationship. And I've had people reach out to me because of my podcast.
- [26:45]
A
I embrace podcasts because I was a radio show host in la. Once upon a time, I was also a TV personality. But listening the audio, the auditory is so important because who's the first person to spoke in our ears when we were kids? Our mothers. And if you've got a soft voice, which you have, it plays to your advantage because you are quiet. I'm more bombastic. I've got a big voice. You're very quiet, serene. You speak clearly, you articulate your words correctly. Not like some other people that are more difficult to understand. I think it plays very well in your hand to be a podcaster and to be an introvert for people that find it difficult. And that's great inspiration for people who are flirting with the idea of podcasting, because the idea of speaking on stages with hundreds or thousands of people terrifies most people. Podcasting you can do, it's one to one, one to many, consume it later. But I believe what you addressed is so important and valuable and I think you. What's the best way for people to get in touch with you, Serena?
- [28:06]
B
I would say it's LinkedIn and the podcast. I'm very active on LinkedIn.
- [28:11]
A
I love LinkedIn.
- [28:13]
B
Yep.
- [28:13]
A
Okay, so you're on there all the time. Okay, three times a week. Do you have a newsletter?
- [28:18]
B
I do have a newsletter and people can subscribe to that on LinkedIn as well.
- [28:22]
A
Okay, great. Well, I've appreciated the time today and the Quiet Warrior has spoken at a high level. Not a low level, a high level. It's been Serena Lowe as our Amazing Authority guest today on Amazing Authorities Podcast. Serena, thank you so much for your time.
- [28:41]
B
Thank you.
- [28:42]
A
Thanks for tuning in to the Amazing Authorities Podcast. If today's episode inspired you, take a moment to subscribe, rate and leave a review. It helps more experts like you rise to the top for behind the scenes access and free resources to boost your authority. Head to MitchCarson.com until next time, stay amazing.